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India vs South Africa | 3rd Test | Johannesburg | Jan 24-28, 2018 | Day 1 | Discussion Thread

What are the other options? For all other options SA bowling attack and conditions would be completely alien so they might have fared even worse..

I think our batting depth is just not strong enough to compete in SA conditions now.. Maybe next generation will be better.

The only way India can compete is hope that someone like Prithvi Shaw turns out to be the next Kohli and he can be in the squad and shoulder the burden of scoring runs along with Kohli.

In the cirrent squad, apart from Kohli, the rest are not man enough to face the SA bowlers. They just try to hang in there hoping that they get lucky.
 
I will put the entire blame on Vijay/Rahul for this debacle. They are supposed to give us decent starts. Something like 30/1 or 50/2. Instead India are always 10/2 with both of these batsmen playing like cowards. This leaves Pujara to see off the new ball and puts pressure on Kohli to score runs.

If you do not have proper openers, then there is no point coming to SA. Their bowlers will eat any middle order like a cake if they are exposed too early.
 
Indiscipline from southafrica has saved Indis from being shot out under 60 easily .
India really is Kohli or bust . Champion batsman
 
The only way India can compete is hope that someone like Prithvi Shaw turns out to be the next Kohli and he can be in the squad and shoulder the burden of scoring runs along with Kohli.

In the cirrent squad, apart from Kohli, the rest are not man enough to face the SA bowlers. They just try to hang in there hoping that they get lucky.



By the time Shaw is groomed Kohli would be on his last legs and shaw will be carrying Kohli..
We need someone else with shaw a group of 5-6 strong batsmen like shaw we don’t want Shaw to be the next generation Kohli where he is one man army and all others around him suck..
Are there any other options or is Shaw the only one? If he is the only one then future doesn’t look bright either..

This all is assuming shaw actually matches his potential might turn out to be another unlike Chand for all we know..
 
I will put the entire blame on Vijay/Rahul for this debacle. They are supposed to give us decent starts. Something like 30/1 or 50/2. Instead India are always 10/2 with both of these batsmen playing like cowards. This leaves Pujara to see off the new ball and puts pressure on Kohli to score runs.

If you do not have proper openers, then there is no point coming to SA. Their bowlers will eat any middle order like a cake if they are exposed too early.

Vijay is finished. We need to look beyond him. He is too timid to be persisted with
 
Saffer need to restrict India to under 180-200.


India need to crawl their way to 220 somehow to make a match out of it.
 
By the time Shaw is groomed Kohli would be on his last legs and shaw will be carrying Kohli..
We need someone else with shaw a group of 5-6 strong batsmen like shaw we don’t want Shaw to be the next generation Kohli where he is one man army and all others around him suck..
Are there any other options or is Shaw the only one? If he is the only one then future doesn’t look bright either..

This all is assuming shaw actually matches his potential might turn out to be another unlike Chand for all we know..

Shaw if everything goes right shuld be in the team in the next 2 years. Kohli is only 29. So by the time Kohli is 33 or 34, Shaw should establish himself as a premier batsman. Will give a good 3 or 4 years where both can play together.

Either way, the likes of Rohit, Vijay should not be in the squad. Rahul and Rahane should go back to domestics and get their confidence back. Playing timid and getting out once every 10 balls is not the way to go.

You cannot search for form when you are touring SA/Aus/Eng/NZ. Those places are difficult even for an inform batsman at Test level.
 
We should kick out Vijay. The way he gets out, that look on his face, the body language, the fielding. Just not right.
 
BK is the 3rd best batsman after Kohli/Pujara.

I would bat BK in Top 5 in overseas conditions. Very assured and compact in defense. He also does not go into a shell forgetting to score runs.
 
When pitch is doing a lot, even powderpuff bowlers look like Marshals.

Steve O'Keefe for example destroyed India not too long ago where the ball was turning square. When there is to much help on offer, even average bowlers will look threatening.

I think it’s just the romanticism of being able to bowl while not being fast enough and pick up a wicket.
 
Ball is still seaming around. Hope it stays this way tomorrow or India will be humiliated.
 
Who is the proper 6th batsman? Rohit? :))

Pandya will score the same number of runs as Rohit and can also bowl and get a few wickets with the ball. What will Rohit offer? A stylish 5 runs?

Play Proper 5 bowlers or ashwin in place of pandya then.
 
What are the other options? For all other options SA bowling attack and conditions would be completely alien so they might have fared even worse..

I think our batting depth is just not strong enough to compete in SA conditions now.. Maybe next generation will be better.

Definitely Rohit, Dhawan, Karthik, Parthiv are not the options. At least we could have tried some new faces and utilized this tour as a learning curve.... Shastri & Kohli were too arrogant & overconfident after the home success. Even the deadly aussies used to do proper homework and preparations coming to India/SC. The unfortunate thing is even after this Shastri & Kohli seem to have not placed their foot on ground yet!
 
SUperbly done by Saffers.

I have been telling time and time again that Bhuvi is the best Indian batter (After Kohli) on these kinds of pitches and he should bat much higher than Panday and Patel.
 
Bhuvaneshwar kumar has been absolutely impressive on this tour, almost seems to have done Pujara+Pandya in a measured way with the bat! They should have sent him at No.6 in this test match to have a partnership with top order.
 
BK is getting wasted at No.8. He should bat higher up. He is a tremendous batsman when the ball is doing quite a bit.

I would bat him at No.5 right after Rahane in the 2nd innings.
 
Bhuvaneswar Kumar has more courage than the Indian top order bats. I would just take him as a batsman alone. Shame that Vijay and Rahul are our openers. The less said about Hardik The better.
 
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BK showing how it is done. Rahane or Vijay or Rahul or Pujara would have defended that half volley with a straight bat.
 
BK is probably the best bat in this side after Kohli.
 
Shaw if everything goes right shuld be in the team in the next 2 years. Kohli is only 29. So by the time Kohli is 33 or 34, Shaw should establish himself as a premier batsman. Will give a good 3 or 4 years where both can play together.

I thought Shaw should have been in the team this series. Gavaskar and Tendulkar made their debuts at an younger age.
 
Definitely Rohit, Dhawan, Karthik, Parthiv are not the options. At least we could have tried some new faces and utilized this tour as a learning curve.... Shastri & Kohli were too arrogant & overconfident after the home success. Even the deadly aussies used to do proper homework and preparations coming to India/SC. The unfortunate thing is even after this Shastri & Kohli seem to have not placed their foot on ground yet!


You don’t send players to SA to learn that is the wrong mentality.. Tours such as SA, England, Australia come once in 3-4 odd years you can’t send players to develop on such tours.. BCCI has enough money to send the A team and organise A tours to SA or under 19 tours to SA/England once a year so that next group of batsmen get familiarised with the conditions.. And then gradually bring the best of them in the team starting with weaker series against WI/SL so they gain some confidence..

I agree Rohit, Dhawan, Patel are not the options but unfortunately that is what we have.. I think people are happy with India winning in India so no one really pushes BCCI to groom teams for alien conditions.. And as these tours come once every few years the criticism lasts for a couple of months before the home season or ipl comes and everyone forgets it..

Story of Indian cricket will be the same for years to come.
 
This month has cleared many doubts about subcontinent teams.
India ki galatfehmi-best batting lineup.
Pakistan ki galatfehmi-best bowling lineup.
 
Shaw if everything goes right shuld be in the team in the next 2 years. Kohli is only 29. So by the time Kohli is 33 or 34, Shaw should establish himself as a premier batsman. Will give a good 3 or 4 years where both can play together.

Either way, the likes of Rohit, Vijay should not be in the squad. Rahul and Rahane should go back to domestics and get their confidence back. Playing timid and getting out once every 10 balls is not the way to go.

You cannot search for form when you are touring SA/Aus/Eng/NZ. Those places are difficult even for an inform batsman at Test level.


Let’s see if I was BCCI I would organise tours to England/NZ/Aus/SA under 19 or A teams and send shaw and other promising youngsters over there in next 2 years so that they can become overall batsmen.. I believe Dravid is still U-19 coach? He can help out on these tours.
 
SouthAfrica needs to score minimum 275. They need a lead of 80-90 runs cuz chasing here 140-150 would be a nightmare.
 
Wow of the 187, 160 were scored by 3 players and extras. This team needs a major surgery post this series
 
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Many batsmen will be booted out after this series, complete buzdili and lack of technique from all top order batters baring Kohli.
 
I thought Shaw should have been in the team this series. Gavaskar and Tendulkar made their debuts at an younger age.

The days of blooding in teenagers into national squad are long gone. Shaw has to wait at least until he is 20.

From whatever I have seen of him, he is ready for International cricket. I have seen him play the likes of Ishant Sharma, Shardul Thakur with ease. Not sure which tournament it was. He in fact smashed Ishant for a lot of boundaries.

Whoever India plays next at home, Shaw should be part of the squad. If he fails, he can wait for another year or two. If he succeeds, then India will have unearthed another Gem.
 
I think we should be done with Hardik test all rounder experiment, he is a slogger who clicks once in 10 innings probably outside Asia.
 
Let’s see if I was BCCI I would organise tours to England/NZ/Aus/SA under 19 or A teams and send shaw and other promising youngsters over there in next 2 years so that they can become overall batsmen.. I believe Dravid is still U-19 coach? He can help out on these tours.

The likes of Shaw, Nagarkoti and Mawi have already toured England in U19 squads. I was watching a program on willow and the Indian U19 smashed England U19 in their own den. Nagarkoti was unplayable and he was man of the series I think. Shaw also did pretty well.
 
Many batsmen will be booted out after this series, complete buzdili and lack of technique from all top order batters baring Kohli.

Vijay should be the first batsman to be kicked out followed by Rohit, Rahul and Rahane.

Rahul and Rahane should play some domestic games and get their confidence back. There is 2 months gap after this series with IPL in between. Hope Rahul and Rahane work on their form.
 
Need to score 300 then India will be completely out of the match.Come on guys
 
Bhuvneshwar clearly has not learnt anything from the first test, first he scores runs being a no 8 and then takes early wicket, who does he think he is, you are not supposed to score runs being a tail ender or take early wickets this is why he got dropped from the second and now will deservedly be dropped from the next series, some people just never learn. #KohliLogic
 
The days of blooding in teenagers into national squad are long gone. Shaw has to wait at least until he is 20.

From whatever I have seen of him, he is ready for International cricket. I have seen him play the likes of Ishant Sharma, Shardul Thakur with ease. Not sure which tournament it was. He in fact smashed Ishant for a lot of boundaries.

Whoever India plays next at home, Shaw should be part of the squad. If he fails, he can wait for another year or two. If he succeeds, then India will have unearthed another Gem.

Indian cricket system is lot corrupt and money-minded now. The selection has to undergo a lot of political rounds... The enthusiasm and passion to win has less priority compared to what money cricket brings from the matches!
 
Bhuvneswar would have absolutely demolished SA had he bowled first on this pitch but for that dumb Kohli
 
Indian cricket system is lot corrupt and money-minded now. The selection has to undergo a lot of political rounds... The enthusiasm and passion to win has less priority compared to what money cricket brings from the matches!

SHarma and vijay has nothing to do in indian test team kick them out,bring a young keeper in who can score,play a proper all rounder or a proper bowler nothing could be achieved by playing hack for his crap 10 overs.
 
SHarma and vijay has nothing to do in indian test team kick them out,bring a young keeper in who can score,play a proper all rounder or a proper bowler nothing could be achieved by playing hack for his crap 10 overs.

M Vijay is the only decent opener available to do well overseas. Prothrombin Shaw and the likes need more time
 
This is a series where many batsmen from both sides flunked. India went there with no preparation. These tracks are tough to adjust to without practice.
 
M Vijay is the only decent opener available to do well overseas. Prothrombin Shaw and the likes need more time

His age and reflexes will take care of him now,i cant see him succeeding overseas now.
after this series a youngster has to come in.
 
This Test match has shades of Wankhede 2004 Ind v Aus. As long as South Africa is bowled out for less than 250, India would be in the gane because 140+ will be a tough total to chase here. End of day 1. 60/40 in RSA Favor.
 
Some unplayable deliveries by Bhubaneswar Kumar ..
looking at this spell ..with overcast conditions in the morning he could have been deadly
As a captain Kohli has made so many mistakes in this series .
 
I thought our fielding was poor today. Gould costed us 50 odd runs. On this surface batsmen will be hit around the knee-roll. Should have gave Pujara out on two occasions. Kohli chanced his arm once too many, should have been out way earlier.
India have probably scored 80 runs too many for the chances we created. Australia will crush us at this rate.
 
I am reading some Naive comments here. That Kohli should have bowled first.
India lost first two test matches chasing targets of 200+.
Why he would want to chase 3rd time ?
Secondly this Test match is only 60/40 in RSA favor. 187 is long way away. Amla is not in good form. Faf is slow. De villiers fingure is bruised, De kock is out of form. Markram is out and Elgar is too slow. Let them first pass 187 before talking about toss crap
 
PROTEAS BOWL INDIA OUT CHEAPLY ON TESTING SURFACE

Wednesday, 24 January 2018

THE Standard Bank Proteas achieved their first objective of bowling India out cheaply on day one of the 3rd Sunfoil Freedom Test match at the Bidvest Wanderers Stadium but they well have reached the close reflecting that they could have done even better.

On a day of struggle for the batsmen India were bowled out for 187 in 77 overs to which the Proteas replied with 6 runs for the loss of Aiden Markram’s wicket in a tricky 6 overs before the close.

As always, one will only know how good the Indian total is after both sides have completed their first innings but an initial impression is that it is not a good deal short of par. If the Proteas can get anything in the region of 250 one would imagine that they will hold a strong hand.

The Indian total, after Viriat Kohli had won the toss, was built around an 84-run partnership for the third wicket between the Indian captain (54 off 106 balls, 9 fours) and Cheteshwar Pujara (50 off 179 balls, 8 fours) followed by some spirited hitting from the lower order of whom Bhuvneshwar Kumar made second top score of 30 (49 balls, 4 fours).

The 10 wickets were shared around the five seamers – Andile Phehlukwayo was brought in as a replacement for spinner Keshav Maharaj in the only change to the Proteas line-up – with Kagiso Rabada having the best return of 3/39 in 19 overs and Lungi Ngidi getting the key wicket of Kohli for the second innings in a row.

Quinton de Kock had a field day behind the stumps with 5 catches to equal the SA record for Tests against India held jointly by Dave Richardson, Mark Boucher (twice) and AB de Villiers.

Where the Proteas will feel they could have done better is that they gave Kohli two lives on 11 and 32 and they can be grateful that it did not cost them more runs against a batsman who nearly always converts half-centuries into three-figure scores.

In addition, they could have had Pujara dismissed without scoring if they had referred to the third umpire an unsuccessful appeal in Ngidi’s opening spell. The replay showed three straight red lights.

Be that as it may the batsmen are all going to need a substantial slice of good luck to survive on this surface. There was one delivery from Rabada that deviated by 50cms which is unheard of.

One cannot imagine the conditions getting any easier for the remainder of the match which is why both sides have gone into this match with five seamers and without a specialist spinner.
 
I think it was one of those 1st innings 80 - 100 runs all out wicket ..as we have seen in SA few times..
India were bit lucky
 
Hardik Sobers Pandya is a find of this tour. He will soon unleash himself on England and Australia. Stay tuned.
 
India are 50 runs short. Tomorrow, bowlers will be having hard work to do.

Time for AB de Villiers to play another counter attacking 70-80 inning that would be enough for India in this test.
 
Kohli is gonna give England a phainty this upcoming tour. Technique looking on point. Looked a million bucks today.
 
All depends on bhuvi. I have no hope from ishant and shami. Bumrah too looks very erratic today
 
A sterner captain would have ended the career of Pandya for the shot he played. Absolutely atrocious
 
De villiers factor in the 1st innings is going to play a massive role in the outcome of this match.
 
India played one batsman short, they are still in the game but need to take early wickets tomorrow to have a chance. 60/40 SA.
 
Where are the selection critics now? What difference did the inclusion of Rahul and Rahane make? Rahul looked absolutely clueless. He couldn’t even touch the inswinging deliveries. Rahane was no different. These two NEVER deserved a place in the XI for the first test. Let’s see if they can make an impact in the 2nd innings. Anyways, I just hope the ‘selection based on potential’ theory won’t surface here anytime soon :).

India is losing simply because they aren’t batting well enough. It’s not a selection issue; rather an issue with application. The Indian batting lineup was expected to perform well under these difficult conditions. Barring Kohli, no other batsmen performed. How can you run away from that fact? Maybe it’s more convenient to put the entire blame on Shastri and Kohli to defend India’s no.1 ranking in Tests. The Indian team with its batting lineup in current form (and approach) isn’t the best Test team out there. Potential wise yes, it’s the best batting lineup in the world by some distance and among the top test teams. But what is potential without performance?

The bowlers kept India in the game throughout the series but the batsmen just couldn't support them. It's a fact we should accept and look to change in the upcoming tours.
 
Kohli shud have carried on after 2 lives..still think India are still in the game
 
Difficult pitch for the batsmen to bat on .... so a result is more or less assured !!!! I think the SAs already know that, the way the Indians batted !!!!
 
Where are the selection critics now? What difference did the inclusion of Rahul and Rahane make? Rahul looked absolutely clueless. He couldn’t even touch the inswinging deliveries. Rahane was no different. These two NEVER deserved a place in the XI for the first test. Let’s see if they can make an impact in the 2nd innings. Anyways, I just hope the ‘selection based on potential’ theory won’t surface here anytime soon :).

India is losing simply because they aren’t batting well enough. It’s not a selection issue; rather an issue with application. The Indian batting lineup was expected to perform well under these difficult conditions. Barring Kohli, no other batsmen performed. How can you run away from that fact? Maybe it’s more convenient to put the entire blame on Shastri and Kohli to defend India’s no.1 ranking in Tests. The Indian team with its batting lineup in current form (and approach) isn’t the best Test team out there. Potential wise yes, it’s the best batting lineup in the world by some distance and among the top test teams. But what is potential without performance?

The bowlers kept India in the game throughout the series but the batsmen just couldn't support them. It's a fact we should accept and look to change in the upcoming tours.

The guys sitting out always look better than the ones playing.

Rahul and Rahane are 2 waste of batting spots. Same with Vijay. That is 3 out of 5 batsmen who are badly out of form. There is a reason why these 2 were not picked by Kohli.
 
A sterner captain would have ended the career of Pandya for the shot he played. Absolutely atrocious

Kohli and Shastri must have given full license to Pandya to attack. Pandya is not a defensive technician. He played the same way in the 1st Test and got lucky and scored quick runs. After that he failed in 3 innings.

I would still pick him over the clueless openers and Rahane.
 
However Pujara played, -- and it was worryingly reminscent of Dravid's raised bat single of 60ish balls --, he scored runs. And without Pujara's runs, India would have been out a session early for less than 100.

This has been a very disappointing series, but Kohli's continued rise is a treat promising that we are witnessing history unfold. A batsman who could seriously be put in the same class as someone as singular as Viv, is playing now, while there's still Test Cricket. While there's batsmen who genuinely take Test success as a marker of their legacy.

As Tests are going to slowly die over the next FTP or two, we won't witness a series of this quality often.
 
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What's the weather like tomorrow (In Jo'Burg, of course)? Intermittent showers will help India.
 
How is it fair on Rahane to be thrown at the deep end like that? He will never in his life face a better attack than that and most likely will never bat on a tougher pitch.
Everyone has had three games to prepare and not a single batsmen looked pretty today,
Kohli was beaten all ends up by Ngidi who is toying with him ATM. He's had 5 innings to prepare against this attack and so have the likes of Pujara.

Rahane was basically thrown at the deep end, sink or swim. I feel sorry for the guy, he's such a nice bloke. Unassuming and gets on with his cricket, he's India best player for these conditions with out a doubt. He'll be the leading run scorer in the England tour. It's sickening for the poor bloke to be thrown under the bus like this. Kohli is trying to destroy his confidence and his career. He wants a narrative that he is India's best bat, the alpha and omega. That is bull, on flat tracks with no lateral movement, maybe. In tough conditions Rahane is the guy. I hate to see nice guys being bullied, I will never tolerate that. What kind of a leader puts his own interests and ego before the team? Kohli is not playing for India, he's enhancing his brand to the detriment of the team. Appalling behaviour.
 
Rahane's been undermined by his captain publicly, hasn't even held a bat in a domestic game 7 weeks, much less an international one.

He's had 1 innings in toughest conditions, as opposed to the 4 others given to Rohit. Rahane may have come in at 90 odd for 3, but before that both Pujara and Kohli had a number of extra lives. That's how tough the conditions were and the context in which Rahane went out to bat.

Maybe Rahane would've failed in the first 2 Tests, but we'll never know. What we do know is that Rahane is a proven performer and has the kind of class that he could do it tomorrow on any pitch.

Rohit's away average should tell you it's madness to pick him in the longer format and not good for Indian cricket. They should be developing young batsmen who can bat in overseas conditions, not picking the second coming of Yuvraj.
 
I would bat BK in Top 5 in overseas conditions. Very assured and compact in defense. He also does not go into a shell forgetting to score runs.



BK is a bowler and not an all rounder. He must bat nowhere above no 7.

Never mind that BK has actually scored a first class 100. He is still not a top/middle order batsman.
 
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The guys sitting out always look better than the ones playing.

Rahul and Rahane are 2 waste of batting spots. Same with Vijay. That is 3 out of 5 batsmen who are badly out of form. There is a reason why these 2 were not picked by Kohli.
Some friends here will never understand this.

How is it fair on Rahane to be thrown at the deep end like that? He will never in his life face a better attack than that and most likely will never bat on a tougher pitch.
Everyone has had three games to prepare and not a single batsmen looked pretty today,
Kohli was beaten all ends up by Ngidi who is toying with him ATM. He's had 5 innings to prepare against this attack and so have the likes of Pujara.

Rahane was basically thrown at the deep end, sink or swim. I feel sorry for the guy, he's such a nice bloke. Unassuming and gets on with his cricket, he's India best player for these conditions with out a doubt. He'll be the leading run scorer in the England tour. It's sickening for the poor bloke to be thrown under the bus like this. Kohli is trying to destroy his confidence and his career. He wants a narrative that he is India's best bat, the alpha and omega. That is bull, on flat tracks with no lateral movement, maybe. In tough conditions Rahane is the guy. I hate to see nice guys being bullied, I will never tolerate that. What kind of a leader puts his own interests and ego before the team? Kohli is not playing for India, he's enhancing his brand to the detriment of the team. Appalling behaviour.
I knew you would take the bait. You just hate Kohli don't you? :)) Until yesterday Rahul was 'the guy' in tough conditions. Today it's Rahane. Tomorrow it'll be Pujara or whoever fits the agenda. I can see what you're trying to do.

These were Rahane's scores in the last series against SL: 4,0,2,1,10,9. You can't expect chances to come your way with that kinda performances. Let's look at his figures in last calendar year.

rahane1.jpg

Mediocre. An average of just 33 in 19 innings. I don't know on what facts you're basing your arguments. His record in SA years ago?! And what do you mean by adjusting to each bowler of an attack in test cricket? This ain't T20 cricket. You have to adjust to the conditions, you have to adjust to the pace and bounce of the pitch. SA has no 'mystery' bowler. All their bowlers have nice, clean actions. In such a scenario, someone as talented and experienced as Rahane is expected to perform well. He can take his time to get settled. Watch the ball, see what the bowler is trying to do. No need to hurry at all. The pitch and conditions were hugely in favour of the bowlers and Rahane in his current form just couldn't handle it. It's as simple as that. Hopefully he'll do better in the second innings.

Irrespective of the conditions, Virat Kohli is the best batsman in the Indian batting lineup right now and overall the best batsman in the world. Today SA were trying to bowl at short of a good length outside the off stump pushing him onto the back foot. When that happens the batsman has to cover the stumps and keep the bat close to the body with a loose bottom hand which he did wonderfully well more often than not. There was a big gap between bat and ball on most occasions (which is what happens when you execute that defensive technique well). I don't call it 'beating the bat'. And when the ball was pitched up, we saw some glorious shots. There were some misses too and he was lucky on a few occasions where his overenthusiasm almost got him out. He was clearly trying to play his shots. But only the extremely biased would fail to see the quality of that knock under the circumstances.

Yes, Rahane is a nice guy. Very down to earth. A no nonsense guy who is liked by many seniors. But in cricket you gotta score runs to stay in the team. Especially in a batting lineup where each and every knock of yours is put under scrutiny. I don't think even he would accuse Kohli of being a 'corrupt' captain. So for the time being you can keep your intolerance to yourself :).
 
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