Indian mosque bulldozed in defiance of high court order

[SpiritOf1903]

Disgusting!

'A local administration in the Indian state of Uttar Pradesh has defied a state high court order and bulldozed a mosque, in one of the most inflammatory actions taken against a Muslim place of worship since the demolition of the Babri Mosque by a mob of Hindu nationalist rioters in 1992.

The mosque, in the city of Ram Sanehi Ghat in Uttar Pradesh, had stood for at least six decades, since the time of British rule, according to documents held by its committee.

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On Monday, police and security services moved into the area and cleared it of people, then brought in bulldozers and demolished the mosque. Debris was then thrown into a river. Security services have been deployed to prevent anyone coming within a mile of where the mosque stood.

The state government of Uttar Pradesh is controlled by the Hindu nationalist Bharatiya Janata party (BJP), which also governs at national level.'

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...que-bulldozed-in-defiance-of-high-court-order

 

[gazza619]

I feel sorry for Indians and India for the amount of hatred that bleeds through their veins not only for others but also for their own people.

 

[King-Misbah]

There was Hindu temple at this site 856 years ago.

 

[gazza619]

There was Hindu temple at this site 856 years ago.

and may be a church 1200 years ago, and may be a cattle farm well before that. The question is that how far do we go back?

 

[finalfantasy7]

There was Hindu temple at this site 856 years ago.

can this be proven, or is it like the barbar masjid demolition where actually the hindus couldn't actually prove that thr was a temple thr - again i can prove with one of your best indian historians talking to al jazeera about this its still on youtube

 

[King_Kohli]

can this be proven, or is it like the barbar masjid demolition where actually the hindus couldn't actually prove that thr was a temple thr - again i can prove with one of your best indian historians talking to al jazeera about this its still on youtube

God bless you.

 

[Ahmad-GERMANFC]

Feel bad for Modi blind followers.

Will have to come up with more mental gymnastics to somehow defend this lol

 

[King-Misbah]

can this be proven, or is it like the barbar masjid demolition where actually the hindus couldn't actually prove that thr was a temple thr - again i can prove with one of your best indian historians talking to al jazeera about this its still on youtube

I was being sarcastic.

 

[street cricketer]

Despicable but sadly not surprising news.

I know they are all paid shills but I'm still amazed at the fact that none of the Indian media outlets carried this news but the Guardian of UK broke this news first.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

I feel sorry for Indians and India for the amount of hatred that bleeds through their veins not only for others but also for their own people.

They don't consider Muslims their own people.

 

[gazza619]

They don't consider Muslims their own people.

Never mind the muslims, they throw a lot at every section of the society. Hate has a lot of scope in that part of the world. People love to hate.

 

[guna]

This is shameful if high court ordered a stay. Yogi is an abomination and a blot on Indian democracy.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

can this be proven, or is it like the barbar masjid demolition where actually the hindus couldn't actually prove that thr was a temple thr - again i can prove with one of your best indian historians talking to al jazeera about this its still on youtube

Looking at the poster I think it was a slightly tongue in cheek comment. Just about all mosques in India will eventually be labelled former hindu temple sites at some point.

 

[Varun]

BIMARU gonna BIMARU.

It's upto the people of lovely Uttar Pradesh to chuck out Bisht when they get the chance next March, but knowing them I'm not going to bet on it.

 

[smkk]

Feel bad for Modi blind followers.

Why should you bro?
Instead you should congratulate them. Not only Modi blind followers, but the entire BJP party should be congratulated. With this Master Move they have at once distracted the entire country from their epic failure from corona management, to this incident. Now for weeks no one is going to talk about the situation of corona virus, instead spewing hatred against each other.

Also I congratulate the entire India, that with this, Yogiji is now to be whelmed as the savior of the current regime, and is now at the forefront of becoming the next prime minister from BJP.

 

[MP2011]

They don't consider Muslims their own people.

This is nothing. Kind of visceral hate these creatures exhibit for Muslims is to be seen to be believed.

 

[Uzi]

I was mega surprised when I saw this. A mosque being demolished in defiance of a court order? This kind of thing would never happen in incredible India.

 

[MenInG]

Officials in India’s northern state of Uttar Pradesh have allegedly bulldozed an old mosque, triggering anger and anguish among the Muslim minority, with a prominent community organisation saying it will approach the high court over the matter.

The Ghareeb Nawaz Al Maroof Mosque, which residents in the state’s Barabanki district say was nearly 100 years old, was demolished on Monday evening by the local administration after hundreds of policemen surrounded the area and halted the movement of people to prevent any protest.

Since 2017, Uttar Pradesh – India’s most populous state with nearly 220 million residents, almost one-fifth of them Muslim – is governed by the Hindu nationalist Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP), with a controversial saffron-robed monk Yogi Adityanath, known for his anti-Muslim hate speech, as the state’s chief minister.

On Tuesday, the Uttar Pradesh Sunni Central Waqf Board, a Muslim body that looks after mosques and other community assets in the state, condemned the demolition and said it was done in defiance of a court order to halt demolitions of alleged “illegal structures” until May 31 in view of the coronavirus pandemic.

In a statement, the board termed the act an “illegal and high-handed action of the administration” and said it will seek judicial remedy.

“This act is against the law, misuse of power and utter violation of clear orders passed by the high court. We will immediately approach the high court demanding restoration of the mosque, high-level judicial inquiry and action against the guilty officers,” the board’s chairman Zufar Ahmad Faruqi said.

In another statement, Maulana Khalid Saifullah Rehmani, general secretary of the All India Muslim Personal Law Board (AIMPLB), said the demolition was undertaken “without any legal justification”.

‘People did not utter a word’
Syed Farooq Ahmad, a 28-year-old law student and social activist based in Uttar Pradesh, told Al Jazeera the administration had barred prayers in the mosque for the past month.

“On March 15 this year, the administration sent a show-cause notice to the mosque committee, mentioning a high court order that illegal religious constructions are to be demolished that cause traffic disruption,” Ahmad said.

According to Ahmad, the identification number of the plot of land mentioned in the show-cause notice did not belong to the mosque. He claimed the mosque was more than 100 feet away from the road and did not disrupt any traffic.

“The mosque committee filed a counter reply with all the facts but that was not considered or taken on the record,” he said.

Interestingly, Barabanki district’s magistrate Adarsh Singh told Al Jazeera “no mosque has been demolished”.

Earlier, a press note issued by the district administration said an “illegal residential complex” was built in front of the residence of a government official and “the concerned parties” were sent a notice. The note claimed that as soon as the notice was served, the people residing in the residential complex in question fled the premises.

Al Jazeera

 

[cric_man]

BIMARU gonna BIMARU.

You keep saying that whenever this kind of stuff pops up. How big of India's population is represented by these BIMARU states? I think close to 600M?

 

[Varun]

You keep saying that whenever this kind of stuff pops up. How big of India's population is represented by these BIMARU states? I think close to 600M?

India, which has 17 per cent of the global population, is home to close to 270 million poor and more than half (52 per cent) of them live in these BIMARU states. In fact, 42 per cent of India's population lives in these states and nearly one in every 4 person is poor.

https://www.downtoearth.org.in/news...ndia, which has 17 per,every 4 person is poor.

.

 

[PakLFC]

It is okay!! The ancestors of the subcontinents Muslim's were Hindu's so they are doing us a favour by demolishing these Masjid's! This Masjid was forcefully erected by Emperor Akbar 10,000 years back that can be proved with letters currently in possession of Yogi Adityanath. Next they will want to demolish the Taj Mahal which is their main target. Then these Hindutva fanatics wonder why Quaid Jinnah insisted on a Pakistan.

 

[cric_man]

.

according to this stat based on 2011 census data the states are close to 500M
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_states_and_union_territories_of_India_by_population

That is almost 40% of the population.

 

[MP2011]

And the biggest irony is when some NRIs who have left India for favourable environs in other countries, keep lecturing us about how good bigot is for us.

If he is as good as they claim him to be for India, why don't they return to their beloved motherland? After all, its been 7 years since he took over and India must be heaven by now as per their beliefs!

 

[KingKhanWC]

India is becoming a poor mans version of Israel. Extremists in Israel also defy the law to spread their hate.

Muslims here should build a larger, better mosque nearby.

 

[James]

<b>Hindu groups file fresh petitions to stop Muslims from entering historic Indian mosque</b>

LUCKNOW,India (Reuters) - Members of hardline Hindu groups filed petitions in a court in northern India to stop Muslims from entering a historic mosque, until the court decides on an earlier plea seeking approval to look for any Hindu relics which may be on the site, lawyers said on Wednesday.

Judges of a local court in Mathura, a Hindu religious town in Uttar Pradesh (UP) state, allowed the new petitions but have yet start hearings in the 2020 case aimed at securing permission to film and survey inside the 17th century Shahi Eidgah mosque.

"We suspect that Hindu symbols could be removed inside Shahi Eidgah mosque so we want the court to suspend entry of Muslims," said Mahendra Pratap, a lawyer involved in the case.

This month, another local court in the state allowed a team to inspect and film inside one of the most prominent mosques in Varanasi, an ancient town, also the political constituency of Prime Minister Narendra Modi.

On Tuesday, the country's top court overturned a ruling imposed by a Varanasi court to limit large Muslim prayer gatherings in the Gyanvapsi mosque, but allowed the local court to continue proceedings.

Members of hardline Hindu groups tied to Modi's party believe that Islamic invaders destroyed Hindu temples during their 200-year rule.

"We believe that idols of Hindu gods were lying inside the mosque built after a temple was destroyed by Muslim rulers to prove supremacy," said Ranjana Agnihotri, a lawyer appearing on behalf of Hindu groups questioning the legitimacy of the Shahi Eidgah mosque in Mathura.

Surveyors involved in the Varanasi case said they found a large relic of the Hindu god Shiva inside the Gyanvapsi mosque, but Muslim groups said that a fountainhead was being misrepresented to stir religious tension.

Reports of idols found inside the mosque have further emboldened Hindu groups in western and southern states to demand searches in other mosques.

Police in Aurangabad city said they had intensified security around the grave of Mughal ruler Aurangzeb after members of MNS, a regional political party, threatened to destroy the tomb, which they believe was anti-Hindu.

The same party recently succeeded in forcing the Maharashtra government to ensure the decibel levels of the Muslim prayer calls were lowered after its leaders threatened to chant Hindu prayers outside mosques.

Leaders of Muslim political and religious groups said they will fight legal battles against Hindu groups disrupting the sanctity of mosques and tombs.

"We (Muslims) will not let Hindus insult our faith and our mosques," said Asaduddin Owaisi, a federal lawmaker and leader of a regional Islamic political party.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/worl...sedgntp&cvid=35f400e11fea4aaa875a1864c181b47a

 

[cricketjoshila]

<b>Hindu groups file fresh petitions to stop Muslims from entering historic Indian mosque</b>

LUCKNOW,India (Reuters) - Members of hardline Hindu groups filed petitions in a court in northern India to stop Muslims from entering a historic mosque, until the court decides on an earlier plea seeking approval to look for any Hindu relics which may be on the site, lawyers said on Wednesday.

Judges of a local court in Mathura, a Hindu religious town in Uttar Pradesh (UP) state, allowed the new petitions but have yet start hearings in the 2020 case aimed at securing permission to film and survey inside the 17th century Shahi Eidgah mosque.

"We suspect that Hindu symbols could be removed inside Shahi Eidgah mosque so we want the court to suspend entry of Muslims," said Mahendra Pratap, a lawyer involved in the case.

This month, another local court in the state allowed a team to inspect and film inside one of the most prominent mosques in Varanasi, an ancient town, also the political constituency of Prime Minister Narendra Modi.

On Tuesday, the country's top court overturned a ruling imposed by a Varanasi court to limit large Muslim prayer gatherings in the Gyanvapsi mosque, but allowed the local court to continue proceedings.

Members of hardline Hindu groups tied to Modi's party believe that Islamic invaders destroyed Hindu temples during their 200-year rule.

"We believe that idols of Hindu gods were lying inside the mosque built after a temple was destroyed by Muslim rulers to prove supremacy," said Ranjana Agnihotri, a lawyer appearing on behalf of Hindu groups questioning the legitimacy of the Shahi Eidgah mosque in Mathura.

Surveyors involved in the Varanasi case said they found a large relic of the Hindu god Shiva inside the Gyanvapsi mosque, but Muslim groups said that a fountainhead was being misrepresented to stir religious tension.

Reports of idols found inside the mosque have further emboldened Hindu groups in western and southern states to demand searches in other mosques.

Police in Aurangabad city said they had intensified security around the grave of Mughal ruler Aurangzeb after members of MNS, a regional political party, threatened to destroy the tomb, which they believe was anti-Hindu.

The same party recently succeeded in forcing the Maharashtra government to ensure the decibel levels of the Muslim prayer calls were lowered after its leaders threatened to chant Hindu prayers outside mosques.

Leaders of Muslim political and religious groups said they will fight legal battles against Hindu groups disrupting the sanctity of mosques and tombs.

"We (Muslims) will not let Hindus insult our faith and our mosques," said Asaduddin Owaisi, a federal lawmaker and leader of a regional Islamic political party.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/worl...sedgntp&cvid=35f400e11fea4aaa875a1864c181b47a

This is the problem with biased media. They don't post the facts.

It is an established fact that Aurangzeb destroyed the temple and built the mosque. Various historians have agreed to it and thats across the world.

Leave history, coming to law,

The Allahabad High court twice ruled in 1935 that the land on which the temple ruins and the mosque stand belongs to the hindus. A simple Google will bring up this judgement of 1935. The judgement was given by British judges.

Subsequent governments since 1947 stalled the issue. Ultimately Indira Gandhi government formed a new managing committee led by Congress leaders G.Vasudev to run the temple. This govt committee leased out the land to the mosque in perpetuity.

No hindu temple land can be given away to non hindus.

This is being challenged in the court.

Every thing i posted can be verified by a Google search.

 

[KingKhanWC]

This is the problem with biased media. They don't post the facts.

It is an established fact that Aurangzeb destroyed the temple and built the mosque. Various historians have agreed to it and thats across the world.

Leave history, coming to law,

The Allahabad High court twice ruled in 1935 that the land on which the temple ruins and the mosque stand belongs to the hindus. A simple Google will bring up this judgement of 1935. The judgement was given by British judges.

Subsequent governments since 1947 stalled the issue. Ultimately Indira Gandhi government formed a new managing committee led by Congress leaders G.Vasudev to run the temple. This govt committee leased out the land to the mosque in perpetuity.

No hindu temple land can be given away to non hindus.

This is being challenged in the court.

Every thing i posted can be verified by a Google search.

Why does the idol God become angry and upset? Before the temple if there was a pagan site, what then?

 

[cricketjoshila]

Why does the idol God become angry and upset? Before the temple if there was a pagan site, what then?

Find a pagan site and claim it. As the court verdict stands, the land belongs to hindus.

 

[kumjsr]

Extremists and invaders destroyed temples 100-500 years back, attacked hindus and forced them to convert, killed those who resisted.

Now when hindus try to get back their sites, they are called extremists.

Amazing.

 

[MenInG]

Extremists and invaders destroyed temples 100-500 years back, attacked hindus and forced them to convert, killed those who resisted.

Now when hindus try to get back their sites, they are called extremists.

Amazing.

Even if we believe what you are saying, 100-500 years have gone by, time has moved on.

If we start doing this then the whole world will be a mess.

Also the question, why did it take 100-500 years to realize this? India has been independent for many years now.

There needs to be a statute of limitations type thing when it comes to these or the world will be turned upside down.

All you will get by doing this is more strife.

 

[Sidilicious]

Find a pagan site and claim it. As the court verdict stands, the land belongs to hindus.

What about the earlier demolition of a mosque despite HC’s order? What is your comment on that?

 

[cricketjoshila]

What about the earlier demolition of a mosque despite HC’s order? What is your comment on that?

The Allahabad HC is hearing a petition on it. If the petition is allowed, the government has to reconstruct the mosque, pay fine and take disciplinary action against the officials.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Even if we believe what you are saying, 100-500 years have gone by, time has moved on.

If we start doing this then the whole world will be a mess.

Also the question, why did it take 100-500 years to realize this? India has been independent for many years now.

There needs to be a statute of limitations type thing when it comes to these or the world will be turned upside down.

All you will get by doing this is more strife.

Sorry but i disagree. Time has not moved on. We see how the world is pulling down statues during the blm movement. Iconic men, considered heroes for centuries are being disowned.

India has been independent for 75 years and cases have been going on for a long time.

Just to put it into perspective here, Hindus were allowed by various courts during the British time to offer their worship within the premises of the Gyan Vapi.

Deen Mohammad vs The secretary of state for India at the Allahabad High court 1942, is the final judgement.

Mahatma Gandhi was very supportive of the idea of shifting existing mosques built after demolition of hindu temples and rebuilding temples. Many believed that it was only fair that since muslims got their country, hindus should get back their temples.

The efforts started in 1948, when the Somnath temple was rebuilt after shifting the existing mosque built bu Aurangzeb by demolishing the temple. Nehru ofcourse tried his best to stop this. But since Sardar Patel along with Gandhiji were in support of this, he couldn't do anything.

Gandhiji passed away in 1948, Sardar in 1950. S P Mukherjee in 1952. After that Nehru was free to do what he pleased.


Nehru Government and many other successive govt stopped it in the name of "security issues". While they allowed muslims to use the premises only hindus were stopped. Over the time the congress government passed various laws to stop hindus from worshipping or claiming these places.

Whether its Ayodhya or Kashi or Mathura, places of religious importance for hindus dont cease to exist because a bigoted emperor broke the temples and built mosques on them.

 

[MenInG]

Varanasi (UP): The report of filming of the Gyanvapi Masjid in Varanasi was submitted to a court this morning in a case involving a request by Hindu petitioners to worship idols inside the mosque complex.
The report, in three folders, was submitted in a sealed cover by the team that filmed the mosque complex. A chip with videos and photographs of the filming was also handed over, Vishal Singh, the court-appointed commissioner, told NDTV.

The Varanasi court was told, however, not to pass any orders for now by the Supreme Court, which is hearing a petition by the mosque committee challenging the Gyanvapi complex filming. The Supreme Court said it would take up the case tomorrow after the lawyers for the Hindu petitioners asked for an adjournment.

The Varanasi court is hearing a petition by five Hindu women who have requested access to the Gyanvapi mosque complex - located next to the iconic Kashi Vishwanath temple - to worship idols on its outer walls.

One of the lawyers involved in the filming at the mosque has claimed that a "Shivling" was found inside a pond traditionally used for "Wazoo" or Islamic purification rituals before namaaz.

The Supreme Court has ordered that if there are claims of a "Shivling" found in the complex, the area should be protected but Muslims must not be stopped from praying at the mosque.

A top official leading the filming, Advocate Commissioner Ajay Pratap Singh, said he stayed up all night to prepare the report, including videos and pictures from inside the mosque, even the basement.

"The court had given us a big responsibility and we conducted the survey honestly in the sweltering heat, even in dirty basements. We took all parties along, the petitioners and mosque representatives, so that there's no question of impropriety," he said.

The court will hear a petition by three of the original petitioners asking for the removal of debris gathered against the mosque wall facing a Nandi idol at the Kashi Viswanath temple, to access and film more areas to establish what they believe are parts of a temple.

The Varanasi court on Tuesday sacked Ajay Mishra, who was leading the filming, over leaks from the report, allegedly by a "personal cameraperson" he had hired. Vishal Singh, a member of the team, was appointed in his place.

NDTV

 

[kumjsr]

Even if we believe what you are saying, 100-500 years have gone by, time has moved on.

If we start doing this then the whole world will be a mess.

Also the question, why did it take 100-500 years to realize this? India has been independent for many years now.

There needs to be a statute of limitations type thing when it comes to these or the world will be turned upside down.

All you will get by doing this is more strife.

That's where problem lies. Impression is being created that something happened 800 years ago and extremists Hindus are creating issue now just because they are in power.

If we start doing it - this statement has to change, no one has started it after long time. All these are ongoing issue for 200 years.

Saying that it started now is wrong at every level.

No one took 100-500 years to realize it.

It was going on in 1700s, 1800s, 1920s also, 1930s, 1940s, 1980s, 2000s

People here are wondering why Hindus aren't giving up when they didn't take it by force or by killing and converting people all these years.

What's the statute of limitations type for such issues?

 

[kumjsr]

Logic of the thread - just because victims have been raising an issue for long time, they should give up because world will be in a mess and supporters of attackers will be offended.

 

[Hextro]

Looks like the scars of the past still haven't healed for some Indian's.

 

[kumjsr]

Looks like the scars of the past still haven't healed for some Indian's.

Is that why you say to all victims who are fighting for justice or trying to get what's theirs?

Amazing mentality with unconditional support for attackers.

 

[MenInG]

Logic of the thread - just because victims have been raising an issue for long time, they should give up because world will be in a mess and supporters of attackers will be offended.

100-500 years as per your understanding. And what is a victim in this case?

Do you realize that the land you are living in now could well have belong to someone 1000 years ago, should those people or their descendants now show up and ask you to move on?

What in your view is the statute of limitations in such cases?

 

[hoshiarpurexpress]

Looks like the scars of the past still haven't healed for some Indian's.

No they have not. Our beloved Sikh gurus heads were cut and their kids were put into walls alive by Islamic fanatics and Mughal invaders. No respect for such invaders and wounds will only heal when the land is reclaimed for temples that were destroyed in the name of Islam.

 

[kumjsr]

100-500 years as per your understanding. And what is a victim in this case?

Do you realize that the land you are living in now could well have belong to someone 1000 years ago, should those people or their descendants now show up and ask you to move on?

What in your view is the statute of limitations in such cases?

100-500 years is when dispute started.

Do you realize that your assumption that dispute started just now is plain wrong?

Dispute was going on since start and it never stopped.

Why is a statue of limitation required for such cases?

I see [MENTION=43583]KingKhanWC[/MENTION] was bringing up Israel example. Israel was established in 1948. 64 years have gone by. Why is Palestine fighting?

Why aren't they giving up? What's the statue of limitation in such case?

 

[kumjsr]

[MENTION=8]MIG[/MENTION] - your argument of descendants of people owning the land 1000 years back showing up now is based on assumption that Hindus have shown up now and claiming back their temples which isn't the case. These places have been under dispute since start and it is ongoing dispute since then. No one has shown up now.

 

[gani999]

No they have not. Our beloved Sikh gurus heads were cut and their kids were put into walls alive by Islamic fanatics and Mughal invaders. No respect for such invaders and wounds will only heal when the land is reclaimed for temples that were destroyed in the name of Islam.

Don't forget that some muslim converts in the sub continent have their scars too. They are having to prove their loyalty to the religion that was forced on their ancestors at sword point. Their Arab and Turkish 'brethren' treat them as second-rate and even deport them regularly from their countries.

 

[kumjsr]

Don't forget that some muslim converts in the sub continent have their scars too. They are having to prove their loyalty to the religion that was forced on their ancestors at sword point. Their Arab and Turkish 'brethren' treat them as second-rate and even deport them regularly from their countries.

Hopefully they will be able liberate themselves some day. Even if they don't, that's how life is at times.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Don't forget that some muslim converts in the sub continent have their scars too. They are having to prove their loyalty to the religion that was forced on their ancestors at sword point. Their Arab and Turkish 'brethren' treat them as second-rate and even deport them regularly from their countries.

The subcontinent seems to be a place of scars.

I hope you also shed a tear for the poor hindus in history relegated to a life of suffering and ignominy due to their position in the caste system.

The poor muslims are treated like second rate by the arabs but those guys are and were treated like second rate by their neighbours

 

[Itachi]

100-500 years as per your understanding. And what is a victim in this case?

Do you realize that the land you are living in now could well have belong to someone 1000 years ago, should those people or their descendants now show up and ask you to move on?

What in your view is the statute of limitations in such cases?

If there is an ongoing dispute since past, then it becomes a different case. Sooner or later, a verdict will be given based upon evidence. As it seems the case, this place was disputed since long ago and there has been official petition also. It didn't come out of thin air.

 

[MenInG]

At the end of the day Indian courts will decide - and that will be the end of of it.

Tbh we waste too much time/energy/life on arguing these things.

 

[kumjsr]

The subcontinent seems to be a place of scars.

I hope you also shed a tear for the poor hindus in history relegated to a life of suffering and ignominy due to their position in the caste system.

The poor muslims are treated like second rate by the arabs but those guys are and were treated like second rate by their neighbours

Poor analogy.

When people talk fixing issues caste system, it is considered as upliftment.

When you talk about justice to Hindus, it is labelled as extrmism on forum.

 

[Rajdeep]

Even if we believe what you are saying, 100-500 years have gone by, time has moved on.

If we start doing this then the whole world will be a mess.

Also the question, why did it take 100-500 years to realize this? India has been independent for many years now.

There needs to be a statute of limitations type thing when it comes to these or the world will be turned upside down.

All you will get by doing this is more strife.

Can we apply the same logic for Palestine then?

Its been long time since Israelis have taken over their land and its time to move on else the world will be in a mess?

What Mughals/invadors did to Indian civilization is no different to what Israel is doing to Palestine.

We hear hindus to compromise, accept everything and move on but encourage Palestinians to fight for their rights.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Poor analogy.

When people talk fixing issues caste system, it is considered as upliftment.

When you talk about justice to Hindus, it is labelled as extrmism on forum.

The analogy stands and is correct. He is worried about muslims are treated in arab lands when dalits were getting pummelled by his co-religionists.

Unfortunately the Hindus on this forum focus on alleged crimes by one community and whitewash the crimes of their own.

This myopic world view is historically flawed and breeds an extremist mindset.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Can we apply the same logic for Palestine then?

Its been long time since Israelis have taken over their land and its time to move on else the world will be in a mess?

What Mughals/invadors did to Indian civilization is no different to what Israel is doing to Palestine.

We hear hindus to compromise, accept everything and move on but encourage Palestinians to fight for their rights.

There is no comparison with Israel/Palestine. You are merely clutching at straws.

But to go to your point which Indian civilization did the Mughals allegedly attack? Were those people aware they were Indian?

Do you judge historic Hindu empires in a similar way?

Picking a random example out of hundreds. When Rajindra I annexed territories and invaded rival areas, were those being occupied happy that an 'Indian' was occupying them. Why don't you shed some tears for those also?

It seems that if a Hindu throws a rock at your head you will accept it but if its a Mughal you will jump up and down in anger. What a sad existence.

 

[Itachi]

There is no comparison with Israel/Palestine. You are merely clutching at straws.

But to go to your point which Indian civilization did the Mughals allegedly attack? Were those people aware they were Indian?

Do you judge historic Hindu empires in a similar way?

Picking a random example out of hundreds. When Rajindra I annexed territories and invaded rival areas, were those being occupied happy that an 'Indian' was occupying them. Why don't you shed some tears for those also?

It seems that if a Hindu throws a rock at your head you will accept it but if its a Mughal you will jump up and down in anger. What a sad existence.

So..... Mughals are representative of Islam and people are putting them as equivalent interchanging the term.....

History disagrees though. In ahom empire Assamese Muslims fought against invader Mughals. By above account clash against mughals can't be regarded as clash against Muslims.

Mughals just happened to be a Muslim entity but the reference just ends there if we go by actual history and not ill informed knowledge.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Don't forget that some muslim converts in the sub continent have their scars too. They are having to prove their loyalty to the religion that was forced on their ancestors at sword point. Their Arab and Turkish 'brethren' treat them as second-rate and even deport them regularly from their countries.

How bad does that look that they still prefer to be Muslims than convert back to Hinduism then?

 

[DeadlyVenom]

So..... Mughals are representative of Islam and people are putting them as equivalent interchanging the term.....

History disagrees though. In ahom empire Assamese Muslims fought against invader Mughals. By above account clash against mughals can't be regarded as clash against Muslims.

Mughals just happened to be a Muslim entity but the reference just ends there if we go by actual history and not ill informed knowledge.

The hatred of Mughals is because they are muslims. Its why they are seen as outsiders,barbarians and blood thirsty by many Hindus, despite the fact that Hindu Empires conducted themselves similarly.

You should lecture your countrymen on the distinction rather than me.

 

[Hextro]

Is that why you say to all victims who are fighting for justice or trying to get what's theirs?

Amazing mentality with unconditional support for attackers.

If some person called me a victim for not claiming a house one of my ancestors might've owned in the past(200-10000 years), I would call that person a clown.

I see these guys as fragile clowns with a serious victim complex.

 

[kumjsr]

The hatred of Mughals is because they are muslims. Its why they are seen as outsiders,barbarians and blood thirsty by many Hindus, despite the fact that Hindu Empires conducted themselves similarly.

You should lecture your countrymen on the distinction rather than me.

Please share instances of Hindu armies attacking Arab world, killing people, forcing them to convert and building temples by destroying mosques in Arab, Central Asia.

 

[Hextro]

No they have not. Our beloved Sikh gurus heads were cut and their kids were put into walls alive by Islamic fanatics and Mughal invaders. No respect for such invaders and wounds will only heal when the land is reclaimed for temples that were destroyed in the name of Islam.

Who's this Sikh guru? Stop being fragile and move on. I can't believe you guys care so much about something that maybe happened 200+ years ago.

I've said this before and I'll say it again, you guys have a serious victim complex. I'm talking about people that hold grudges for things that maybe happened centuries ago to people you don't even know.

 

[kumjsr]

Who's this Sikh guru? Stop being fragile and move on. I can't believe you guys care so much about something that maybe happened 200+ years ago.

I've said this before and I'll say it again, you guys have a serious victim complex. I'm talking about people that hold grudges for things that maybe happened centuries ago to people you don't even know.

You do realize that no one is fighting for houses belonging to someone who posters don't even know.

Temples were destroyed as part of attack on religion and an individual didn't own the temple.

Those are holy sites for Hindus and just because it happend 200 years back, doesn't mean that those sites ceased to exist as holy site.

These are not like any other temples of town or any mosque which becomes holy site because a building was constructed.

That place is site of one of 12 jyotiglinga and just because invader destroyed the temple doesn't mean that Hindus need to reduce their jyotirlinga number to 11.

If it's about knowing people who established important sites of religion why are you following your current religion? Whom did you know from 1000 years back from the place origin of your religion?

 

[Itachi]

The hatred of Mughals is because they are muslims. Its why they are seen as outsiders,barbarians and blood thirsty by many Hindus, despite the fact that Hindu Empires conducted themselves similarly.

You should lecture your countrymen on the distinction rather than me.

I already gave you example of how your hypothesis doesn't follow in reality. Later on, Even Muslims fought against mughals in many states. Religion is irrelevant if one goes through in a objective manner. Your assumption is half cooked. Better to read and aware yourself about the Indian history rather than making claims out of thin air propelled by own agenda.

 

[gani999]

How bad does that look that they still prefer to be Muslims than convert back to Hinduism then?

The ones in India can prefer to be what they want. We have had some muslims reverting back to Hinduism as well, while some others have become atheist. Most are happy remaining muslim and no one has a problem with that.

The ones in Pakistan will be punished for apostacy if they choose to revert to the religion of their ancestors. I believe apostacy is a crime in Pakistan, is it not? Hence they are stuck with their scars and have the need to prove their loyalty.

 

[Hextro]

You do realize that no one is fighting for houses belonging to someone who posters don't even know.

Temples were destroyed as part of attack on religion and an individual didn't own the temple.

Those are holy sites for Hindus and just because it happend 200 years back, doesn't mean that those sites ceased to exist as holy site.

These are not like any other temples of town or any mosque which becomes holy site because a building was constructed.

That place is site of one of 12 jyotiglinga and just because invader destroyed the temple doesn't mean that Hindus need to reduce their jyotirlinga number to 11.

If it's about knowing people who established important sites of religion why are you following your current religion? Whom did you know from 1000 years back from the place origin of your religion?

You won't see me crying because a mosque might've been converted into a church or something hundreds or thousands of years ago. The only reason these hindutva (or whatever they are) are making a big deal out of this is because of their inferiority complex.

I can bring up thousands maybe even millions of bad things that have happened in the last 10000 years but nothing justifies crying about those things in the modern era. I mean these people weren't even related to you.

Move on.

 

[kumjsr]

You won't see me crying because a mosque might've been converted into a church or something hundreds or thousands of years ago. The only reason these hindutva (or whatever they are) are making a big deal out of this is because of their inferiority complex.

I can bring up thousands maybe even millions of bad things that have happened in the last 10000 years but nothing justifies crying about those things in the modern era. I mean these people weren't even related to you.

Move on.

You're already crying when someone has just talked about getting back temples.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

The ones in India can prefer to be what they want. We have had some muslims reverting back to Hinduism as well, while some others have become atheist. Most are happy remaining muslim and no one has a problem with that.

The ones in Pakistan will be punished for apostacy if they choose to revert to the religion of their ancestors. I believe apostacy is a crime in Pakistan, is it not? Hence they are stuck with their scars and have the need to prove their loyalty.

Take it to one of your hindutva social media circles mate, we see this regularly on here where hindus try to push this narrative that desi Muslims are hated by Arabs, now you are adding Turks to the propaganda files. All it really shows is that Hindus get really burned up by this idea that Muslims exist in India and refuse to convert to Hinduism.

Show some confidence in your own culture and beliefs, if they are so great then people will be attracted to them intrinsically, you don't need to run propaganda campaigns. In the west we see exactly how attractive your culture is, most successful Hindus marry Abrahamic partners, just check a couple of your biggest movie stars like Preity and Priyanka. Those are the ones born and brought up in India, can you imagine what happens to those who were born in the west?

 

[Romali_rotti]

Take it to one of your hindutva social media circles mate, we see this regularly on here where hindus try to push this narrative that desi Muslims are hated by Arabs, ?

I have seen this behavior from the Arabs, its not a propaganda.

Arabs are one of the most racists people on earth, they look down on the ppl from the sub continent like insects.

Of course not all Arabs are like this but this is definitely not a propaganda, a close friend of mine is an Egyptian Arab, I have attended their functions, parties etc and their behavior pretty much summed up the racism the Arabs have towards the sub continentiles and he personally told me Arabs in general look down on Pakistanis, Bangladeshi's Indians etc...

Ummah can only get you so far if you are from the Sub continent.

 

[Hextro]

You're already crying when someone has just talked about getting back temples.

I just called out the stupidity of this whole situation as you can see from my first comment on this thread.

Looks like the scars of the past still haven't healed for some Indians.

If you wanna get emotional about something that happened hundreds of years ago be my guest, I'm not gonna stop you.

But at the end of the day, I don't care about this whole thing, It's just amusing to look at from afar.

 

[Stewie]

I have seen this behavior from the Arabs, its not a propaganda.

Arabs are one of the most racists people on earth, they look down on the ppl from the sub continent like insects.

Of course not all Arabs are like this but this is definitely not a propaganda, a close friend of mine is an Egyptian Arab, I have attended their functions, parties etc and their behavior pretty much summed up the racism the Arabs have towards the sub continentiles and he personally told me Arabs in general look down on Pakistanis, Bangladeshi's Indians etc...

Ummah can only get you so far if you are from the Sub continent.

Arabs have historically had a superiority complex, which is strange considering they are a bedouin/nomadic people who just happen to strike it rich due to oil. I think culturally the subcontinental civilization is way ahead of them in education and other aspects.

 

[sweep_shot]

May Allah's curse be on these lunatics.

This is what BJP's India has become. Nothing surprising.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I have seen this behavior from the Arabs, its not a propaganda.

Arabs are one of the most racists people on earth, they look down on the ppl from the sub continent like insects.

Of course not all Arabs are like this but this is definitely not a propaganda, a close friend of mine is an Egyptian Arab, I have attended their functions, parties etc and their behavior pretty much summed up the racism the Arabs have towards the sub continentiles and he personally told me Arabs in general look down on Pakistanis, Bangladeshi's Indians etc...

Ummah can only get you so far if you are from the Sub continent.

....and there it is, the crux of the hindutva message. Why do you people need to keep telling Pakistanis and Bangladeshis this, do you think this will somehow boost your ghar wapasi effort?

 

[gani999]

Take it to one of your hindutva social media circles mate, we see this regularly on here where hindus try to push this narrative that desi Muslims are hated by Arabs, now you are adding Turks to the propaganda files. All it really shows is that Hindus get really burned up by this idea that Muslims exist in India and refuse to convert to Hinduism.

Show some confidence in your own culture and beliefs, if they are so great then people will be attracted to them intrinsically, you don't need to run propaganda campaigns. In the west we see exactly how attractive your culture is, most successful Hindus marry Abrahamic partners, just check a couple of your biggest movie stars like Preity and Priyanka. Those are the ones born and brought up in India, can you imagine what happens to those who were born in the west?

I don't see the connection between hindus allegedly hating muslims in India and hindus pointing out that arabs hate muslims (and also hindus) from the subcontinent, but I'll let it pass.

As for hindu culture and traditions, I don't know where you got the idea that we are not proud of it? Hindus are some of the most culturally proud people on the planet, and they have been taking their religion and cultures everywhere for decades now. The only ones who think that Hindus are not proud of their culture are some Pakistanis holding British passports, who even stoop down to the ridiculous level of projecting the actions of a couple of Bollywood stars as a national trend. Most successful hindus are married to other hindus, by the way.

 

[Romali_rotti]

.. Why do you people need to keep telling Pakistanis and Bangladeshis this, do you think this will somehow boost your ghar wapasi effort?

What's the need to tell this ?.. Cap last I figured PP was a democracy and you can openly express your views here. Are you back to repping your village Pakistani self with posts like above ?

It also happens to have truth to it... Ummah does have its limitations see Ughyur muslims, racist Arabs etc...

 

[KingKhanWC]

Find a pagan site and claim it. As the court verdict stands, the land belongs to hindus.

Im not insecure.

Paganism was around before Hinduism. Hinduism isnt even a religion according to many.

Im confident you are not even aware of how many Gods there are in Hinduism.

 

[kumjsr]

May Allah's curse be on these lunatics.

This is what BJP's India has become. Nothing surprising.

Calling Hindus lunatics and thinking that they deserved to be punished for asking for justice. That's extremist pov.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Calling Hindus lunatics and thinking that they deserved to be punished for asking for justice. That's extremist pov.

Calling extremists lunatics is nothing but accurate. BJP are RSS, inspired by hate.

 

[kumjsr]

Im not insecure.

Paganism was around before Hinduism. Hinduism isnt even a religion according to many.

Im confident you are not even aware of how many Gods there are in Hinduism.

Not surprised at Hinduism being called fake religion, mocking a follower for large number of God as if concept of one God is only option for a religion to be considered and calling Hindus lunatics with wishes of them suffering for following their faith.

That's the kind of mindset which has been promoting attacks on the faith for 100s of years and continues to do so even in modern world.

 

[kumjsr]

Calling extremists lunatics is nothing but accurate. BJP are RSS, inspired by hate.

Jyotirlinga existed before BJP existed, Hindus has been trying to get back their holy site before RSS existed.

Mentioning BJP is just a cover to throw insults at all Hindus who have been in favor of cause of 300 years.

It's obvious he is calling all of them lunatics and wishing for suffering for them.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

What's the need to tell this ?.. Cap last I figured PP was a democracy and you can openly express your views here. Are you back to repping your village Pakistani self with posts like above ?

It also happens to have truth to it... Ummah does have its limitations see Ughyur muslims, racist Arabs etc...

I am just telling you some background, I was unaware even of the Hindutva movment before the days of the internet, and was taken aback by the organised virulence against Islam when it came to the fore. The Arab hatred has been a striking component of it, and even decades later it still crops up like in this thread and countless others on these very forums.

I'm sure there are racist Arabs by the way, but Islam itself has a very good record of defeating racism. I have seen many intermarriages between different races, two people I know are married to Arab women, one a Lebanese, the other a Moroccan, although I suppose technically that would make her north African.

But yeah, keep piping the anti-Islam tune, it only exposes your own insecurities, we see very well how impressed Indians are with Abrahamics abroad. We live here remember?

 

[KingKhanWC]

Not surprised at Hinduism being called fake religion, mocking a follower for large number of God as if concept of one God is only option for a religion to be considered and calling Hindus lunatics with wishes of them suffering for following their faith.

That's the kind of mindset which has been promoting attacks on the faith for 100s of years and continues to do so even in modern world.

Jyotirlinga existed before BJP existed, Hindus has been trying to get back their holy site before RSS existed.

Mentioning BJP is just a cover to throw insults at all Hindus who have been in favor of cause of 300 years.

It's obvious he is calling all of them lunatics and wishing for suffering for them.

Great example of why Hindutva are paranoid and insecure. I never called it a fake religion.

Indians voted for BJP, Modi was an RSS student. BJP members have called for Mosques to be destroyed, Muslims to be shunned and also attacked Christians.

You keep pretending BJP are liberals but its clear they are extremists.

 

[kumjsr]

Great example of why Hindutva are paranoid and insecure. I never called it a fake religion.

Indians voted for BJP, Modi was an RSS student. BJP members have called for Mosques to be destroyed, Muslims to be shunned and also attacked Christians.

You keep pretending BJP are liberals but its clear they are extremists.

Nice attempt, calling people of 18th and 19th century as BJP members.

Location of 12 maha jyotirlingas.

1. Somnath temple in Gujarat - Raided and plundered by Ghazni, destroyed multiple times and recontructed multiple time in last 1000 years.
2. Srisailam temple in Andhra Pradesh
3. Mahakal Jyotirlinga in Ujjain
4. Kedarnath temple
5. Omkareshwara Madhya Pradesh
6. Bhim shankar in Maharashtra
7. Kashi Vishwanath temple in UP destroyed by Aurangzeb and Gyanvapi mosque constructed at the place.
8. Trimbakeshwar in Maharashtra
9. Nageshwar in Gujarat
10. Baidyanathdham in Jharkhand
11. Rameshwaram in Tamil Nadu
12. Grisneshwar in Maharashtra

BJP/RSS didn't establish these jyotirlingas in last 1000 years, they didn't write puranas about it.

Just because some have been destroyed, plundered as an attack on Hinduism doesn't mean that faith has ceased to exist or should ceased to exist.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Nice attempt, calling people of 18th and 19th century as BJP members.

Location of 12 maha jyotirlingas.

1. Somnath temple in Gujarat - Raided and plundered by Ghazni, destroyed multiple times and recontructed multiple time in last 1000 years.
2. Srisailam temple in Andhra Pradesh
3. Mahakal Jyotirlinga in Ujjain
4. Kedarnath temple
5. Omkareshwara Madhya Pradesh
6. Bhim shankar in Maharashtra
7. Kashi Vishwanath temple in UP destroyed by Aurangzeb and Gyanvapi mosque constructed at the place.
8. Trimbakeshwar in Maharashtra
9. Nageshwar in Gujarat
10. Baidyanathdham in Jharkhand
11. Rameshwaram in Tamil Nadu
12. Grisneshwar in Maharashtra

BJP/RSS didn't establish these jyotirlingas in last 1000 years, they didn't write puranas about it.

Just because some have been destroyed, plundered as an attack on Hinduism doesn't mean that faith has ceased to exist or should ceased to exist.

It might be a big surprise to you but its the BJP/RSS extremist Hindus in control now.

Are you denying the hate spread by BJP members towards Muslims and Christians?

Are you denying the RSS is an extremist group?

 

[kumjsr]

It might be a big surprise to you but its the BJP/RSS extremist Hindus in control now.

Are you denying the hate spread by BJP members towards Muslims and Christians?

Are you denying the RSS is an extremist group?

Are you saying that BJP/RSS established these jyotirlingas and demanding it since 18th century?

Asking Hindus to change their faith by forgeting that 12 Jyotirlingas exist and consider only 11 just because action of an invader is direct attack on the faith of people seen here.

Give one reason why should Hindus forget about 1 jyotirlinga and consider only 11?