Indian pace bowlers are better than their Pakistani counterparts

[ahanank]

The obsession with bowling fast needs to end.

Yes bowling quick is great, bowling bouncers looks good but what's the point if you are getting hit all over.

Remember most of Wasim and Waqar's victims were out lbw or bowled !

Exactly.
On the contrary, the way Muhammad Asif bowled with not much pace, but the extraordinary skill to swing the ball and actually control it should be enough to suggest pace isn't the only factor to get excited about.

 

[Major]

Our bowling has become a joke and no where near the Indian bowling attack.

We have lost the test series and would be losing the t20 series due to this bowling attack.
You can bowl 2 overs and get injured

 

[Pacy with wisdom]

Our bowling has become a joke and no where near the Indian bowling attack.

We have lost the test series and would be losing the t20 series due to this bowling attack.
You can bowl 2 overs and get injured

The guy in your avatar and his sidekicks have a great part to play in that.

 

[Major]

The guy in your avatar and his sidekicks have a great part to play in that.

yes because he is the one who is bowling

naseem and Amir are jokes. Shaheen also following the lead.

 

[Pacy with wisdom]

The Indian bowling is way ahead and practically the 2nd best test bowling unit in the world.

They are fit, agressive and they know their roles as well as how to execute.
Comparing them to Pakistan right now is unfair with the Pakistani bowlers, because the latter are not being provided the right guidance.

Indian bowling is working in an optimal environment with qualified coaches and support staff.
From 2016 onwards, guys like Shami, Ishant and Umesh have transformed beyond recognition because of the work being done with them behind the curtains. They literally look like lions whenever they run in to bowl.

I salute their strength and conditioning coaching set up.
I mean, an ectomorph like Ishant who previously could have been swept by the wind now looks like a strong athlete.

On the other hand, look at what we did with someone like Irfan.
Our great bowling coach used to make him run laps over laps, which made him whatever little muscle he had to support an enormous frame.

Pakistan has three to four times more fast bowlers than India who can be international ready, but we dont have knowledgable support staff that can hone them.

 

[Syed1]

With Misbah making the selections and Waqar coaching the bowlers even Nepal might fancy their chances against our bowlers.

 

[Pacy with wisdom]

yes because he is the one who is bowling

naseem and Amir are jokes. Shaheen also following the lead.

As a coach/selector, he was never going to bowl or bat for them, was he?
He is practically the director of cricket and calls all the shots.
And no, Naseem and Shaheen are not jokes.
At 18-20, they are not supposed to know how to get out of bad form as bowlers.
They need guidance from a knowledgable coach. And your beloved director chose Waqar for that role and we are witnessing what a wonderful choice that was.

Stop being blinded by your love for him. The country comes before anyone. He and his team have proven to be inadequate and incompetent.

 

[Major]

As a coach/selector, he was never going to bowl or bat for them, was he?
He is practically the director of cricket and calls all the shots.
And no, Naseem and Shaheen are not jokes.
At 18-20, they are not supposed to know how to get out of bad form as bowlers.
They need guidance from a knowledgable coach. And your beloved director chose Waqar for that role and we are witnessing what a wonderful choice that was.

Stop being blinded by your love for him. The country comes before anyone. He and his team have proven to be inadequate and incompetent.

if they dont know hwo to do their job than they can leave or drop themselves.

Just because they are talented or 20 year old doesn't mean they cannot be held responsible for their own performance. At the end of the day, every player is responsible for his performance if he plays for team Pakistan.

WHen your favourites fail to perform on the pitch, you will redirect the criticism to anyone to save them.

Funny now its the coach, but not the captain. In the past it used to be directed to the captain and not the coach.

You talk about blind love and country comes first, while you and many others shift and redirect blame to save your favourites.

Naseem was overhyped, Shaheen as usual cant bowl and Amir bowled 2 overs and broke down, and on paper he is what 27 or 28.

But Misbah is at fault because Shaheen sucks. Misbah is at fault that Amir can't bowl 2 overs even after retiring form Test.

 

[Shazzam]

But Misbah is at fault because Shaheen sucks. Misbah is at fault that Amir can't bowl 2 overs even after retiring form Test.

According to Wasim Khan, Misbah is fully responsible for teams performance. So yes Misbah takes the blame for all that.

 

[sweep_shot]

I believe Pakistan still have great pace reserves but India may have just edged ahead over the past 2-3 years. It is something that was unthinkable even 6 years ago.

 

[Savak]

India's bowling attack is much superior on paper and on the field. The current Pakistani bowlers are living of the reputations of their past contemporaries.

 

[Pacy with wisdom]

if they dont know hwo to do their job than they can leave or drop themselves.

Just because they are talented or 20 year old doesn't mean they cannot be held responsible for their own performance. At the end of the day, every player is responsible for his performance if he plays for team Pakistan.

WHen your favourites fail to perform on the pitch, you will redirect the criticism to anyone to save them.

Funny now its the coach, but not the captain. In the past it used to be directed to the captain and not the coach.

You talk about blind love and country comes first, while you and many others shift and redirect blame to save your favourites.

Naseem was overhyped, Shaheen as usual cant bowl and Amir bowled 2 overs and broke down, and on paper he is what 27 or 28.

But Misbah is at fault because Shaheen sucks. Misbah is at fault that Amir can't bowl 2 overs even after retiring form Test.

The fact that you are blaming me for playing favourites showcases how insecure and defensive you are due to the criticism on Misbah.
Shaheen and Naseem are not my favourites and I am not a blind fan of any cricketer.

I only speak from experience and knowledge.
I have played cricket at a reasonablly high level and I know that at their age, you need proper guidance and less responsibility which all comes down on the coaching staff.

Misbah is not just a coach. As I mentioned before, he is the director and all national cricketing matters are under him, including selection and recommending people to be appointed as his support staff.
Thetefore, he should have knowledge about everything; the players, their fitness issues, development phase, the support coaches; their responsibilities.
He recommended waqar who is a multiple time failed bowling coach.
He is the one who was relying on two teenagers to win him a test tour with a failed bowling coach, and had oldies like Imran khan and Sohail on the bench; ignoring all the bowlers in their 20's that are toiling in the domestic set up.
Does it not tell you about his failed strategy?

As far as Amir's issues are concerned, I have highlighted them in other threads. If Misbah and Waqar were worth their salt, these issues could have all been solved with the amount of time they had in the last six months.

There is no planning, analysis or fault identification. Everything is running on a spate of randomness.
But you will still blame everyone under the sun, just so Misbah can be absolved.

And yes, it will be better if you could start using better words than "sucks" and all the other mumbo jumbo that you start resorting to.

 

[Indiafan]

In 2019, Indian bowlers had 4 hattricks, which covered all formats of cricket

Chahar in T20s, Kuldeep Yadav and Shami in ODIs and Bumrah in tests

3 out of those 4 were by pacers

Indian bowlers also caused 4 out of 6 total concussion substitute in tests (the other bowlers being Bravo and Archer).

3 different bowlers, umesh Yadav, Shami and Bumrah caused these substitutes, Shami twice in the same match

Apart from the New Zealand series, Indian bowlers have forced a concussion substitute in every SINGLE series they played, after the rule was introduced

Pretty sure if Pak bowlers had done any of that, there would be no end of threads on these feats

 

[Bhaijaan]

Right now which Indian fast bowlers apart from Shami would make it to playing XI of Pakistan Tests and LOI teams?
[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] [MENTION=138463]Slog[/MENTION] [MENTION=135038]Major[/MENTION] [MENTION=138254]Syed1[/MENTION]

 

[Major]

Right now which Indian fast bowlers apart from Shami would make it to playing XI of Pakistan Tests and LOI teams?

[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] [MENTION=138463]Slog[/MENTION] [MENTION=135038]Major[/MENTION] [MENTION=138254]Syed1[/MENTION]

Bumrah walks into the team eyes closed.

sherdil thakur and amir are at the same level in t20

 

[Major]

In 2019, Indian bowlers had 4 hattricks, which covered all formats of cricket

Chahar in T20s, Kuldeep Yadav and Shami in ODIs and Bumrah in tests

3 out of those 4 were by pacers

Indian bowlers also caused 4 out of 6 total concussion substitute in tests (the other bowlers being Bravo and Archer).

3 different bowlers, umesh Yadav, Shami and Bumrah caused these substitutes, Shami twice in the same match

Apart from the New Zealand series, Indian bowlers have forced a concussion substitute in every SINGLE series they played, after the rule was introduced

Pretty sure if Pak bowlers had done any of that, there would be no end of threads on these feats

wrong thing to say.

In any sport, you dont take credit for giving concussion.
I understand its a new thing in cricket, but its not something to boost about or set as benchmark of quality

 

[Kaddy]

Pakistan should borrow some professional coaches from India

 

[Major]

The fact that you are blaming me for playing favourites showcases how insecure and defensive you are due to the criticism on Misbah.
Shaheen and Naseem are not my favourites and I am not a blind fan of any cricketer.

I only speak from experience and knowledge.
I have played cricket at a reasonablly high level and I know that at their age, you need proper guidance and less responsibility which all comes down on the coaching staff.

Misbah is not just a coach. As I mentioned before, he is the director and all national cricketing matters are under him, including selection and recommending people to be appointed as his support staff.
Thetefore, he should have knowledge about everything; the players, their fitness issues, development phase, the support coaches; their responsibilities.
He recommended waqar who is a multiple time failed bowling coach.
He is the one who was relying on two teenagers to win him a test tour with a failed bowling coach, and had oldies like Imran khan and Sohail on the bench; ignoring all the bowlers in their 20's that are toiling in the domestic set up.
Does it not tell you about his failed strategy?

As far as Amir's issues are concerned, I have highlighted them in other threads. If Misbah and Waqar were worth their salt, these issues could have all been solved with the amount of time they had in the last six months.

There is no planning, analysis or fault identification. Everything is running on a spate of randomness.
But you will still blame everyone under the sun, just so Misbah can be absolved.

And yes, it will be better if you could start using better words than "sucks" and all the other mumbo jumbo that you start resorting to.

They suck. Any guy who sits around throws a tanturum of not being able to play all formats, when his demands are met, he shows up to bowl an over and breaks down.

Sucks means to be bad, and amir is bad.

Naseem gets paid, naseem gets his money directly. His money doesn't go to his father or Misbah that help him in spending money. Stop portraying that we have 10 year olds playing and Misbah is there father who should be telling them each time what to bowl.

Our bowling is a joke. We have now had two captains dealing with these bowlers, its safe to say that blame lies on these so called phast bowlers.

 

[Bhaijaan]

Bumrah walks into the team eyes closed.

sherdil thakur and amir are at the same level in t20

Come on bro. Thakur is no Amir lol

We have this other new baby pace bowler , some young lad I forgot his name he only plays T20s and plays for Chennai he is better than Thakur but not good enough to play for Pakistan.

 

[Bhaijaan]

Come on bro. Thakur is no Amir lol

We have this other new baby pace bowler , some young lad I forgot his name he only plays T20s and plays for Chennai he is better than Thakur but not good enough to play for Pakistan.

Deepak Chahar

 

[Major]

Come on bro. Thakur is no Amir lol

We have this other new baby pace bowler , some young lad I forgot his name he only plays T20s and plays for Chennai he is better than Thakur but not good enough to play for Pakistan.

A bowler who can't play test cricket that to at the age of 28, comes into t20 and barely bowls 2 overs.

Might aswell take a fit t20 specialist. I would even bring Sohail Tanvir back.

Thakur is on par with Amir, atleast Thakur can bowl his qouta

 

[Ab Fan]

We don't have any major upcoming talent after Bumrah. Lets see if our setup can deliver a couple more decent fast bowlers.

For now, we do have Bumrah and Shami across formats and always had enough spin resources to do the job.

 

[Bhaijaan]

We don't have any major upcoming talent after Bumrah. Lets see if our setup can deliver a couple more decent fast bowlers.

For now, we do have Bumrah and Shami across formats and always had enough spin resources to do the job.

It is concerning indeed.

Right now we have a mature bowling squad but where are the young kids we all love to watch. Give me some.16 and 18 year olds. I want to feel excited once again.

 

[Indiafan]

wrong thing to say.

In any sport, you dont take credit for giving concussion.
I understand its a new thing in cricket, but its not something to boost about or set as benchmark of quality

I am talking about fierce, pace bowling which puts fear into batsmen and causes them to give away their wicket. This was what West Indies bowlers were known for and why they were so feared and effective

 

[Indiafan]

We don't have any major upcoming talent after Bumrah. Lets see if our setup can deliver a couple more decent fast bowlers.

For now, we do have Bumrah and Shami across formats and always had enough spin resources to do the job.

If Ishant Sharma can turn around after so many years, that means the system is working. Umesh Yadav too has flourished under the new management and captain. If you have a great system which encourages fast bowlers, soon you will have a pipeline of bowlers. Just like we have a pipeline of good batsen

 

[Sidilicious]

Bumrah walks into the team eyes closed.

sherdil thakur and amir are at the same level in t20

thora zyada ho gaya!
Even as an Indian, I would always take Amir over Thakur.

 

[Ellipsism]

There’s no competition really. Our supposed premier LOI bowler is someone who’s taken one wicket in his last 6 T20I games and gets “injured” every time he gets pasted.

 

[MP2011]

Even as an Indian, I would always take Amir over Thakur.

I'd take anyone over Sherdil! Period.

Btw, I liked the nickname of Thakur.

 

[Ab Fan]

If Ishant Sharma can turn around after so many years, that means the system is working. Umesh Yadav too has flourished under the new management and captain. If you have a great system which encourages fast bowlers, soon you will have a pipeline of bowlers. Just like we have a pipeline of good batsen

Yeah, even if there is no exciting young talent coming, the system is good and it will continue produce good fast bowlers. However, if we have to produce ATG bowlers, we will need some great talent with lots of passion coming in.

 

[Sidilicious]

Yeah, even if there is no exciting young talent coming, the system is good and it will continue produce good fast bowlers. However, if we have to produce ATG bowlers, we will need some great talent with lots of passion coming in.

Weren’t there Saini and Prasidh Krishna?

 

[Sidilicious]

I'd take anyone over Sherdil! Period.

Btw, I liked the nickname of Thakur.

Reminds me of Sholay!

Yeh haath....

 

[Ab Fan]

Weren’t there Saini and Prasidh Krishna?

Saini is already 28, he is impressive though but not young talent.

 

[Varun]

Pakistan's bowling can neither defend 280 in the 4th innings of a test match nor 190 in a T20.

Just because they produced Wasim and Waqar once upon a time they have propagated this myth that they always have a better bowling attack than ours, when in fact our batting has always been miles better than theirs and our bowling in recent years has been too.

Looking forward to the next hype threads on the latest 13-year old coming around the block.

 

[Syed1]

Pakistan's bowling can neither defend 280 in the 4th innings of a test match nor 190 in a T20.

Just because they produced Wasim and Waqar once upon a time they have propagated this myth that they always have a better bowling attack than ours, when in fact our batting has always been miles better than theirs and our bowling in recent years has been too.

Looking forward to the next hype threads on the latest 13-year old coming around the block.

Yeah its not like India lose defending 220 odd in a T20 ever.


You mentioned your "batting has always been miles better". Well the head to head record wouldn't have been this skewed in Pakistan's favour if your batting had always been miles better.

I agree we are sucking at the moment but to restrict Pakistani bowling legacy to just W & W is highly disingenuous.

 

[JaDed]

Pakistan's bowling can neither defend 280 in the 4th innings of a test match nor 190 in a T20.

Just because they produced Wasim and Waqar once upon a time they have propagated this myth that they always have a better bowling attack than ours, when in fact our batting has always been miles better than theirs and our bowling in recent years has been too.

Looking forward to the next hype threads on the latest 13-year old coming around the block.

Our bowlers always execute the plans but they will not think outside the box except maybe Shami and Bumrah.. they all are very good currently and as an ICT fan have no complaints but just saying they don't rise above the plan at times which is still kinda annoying..and i think restricting to them as bowlers too..

 

[HappyWarsFan]

Pakistan's bowling can neither defend 280 in the 4th innings of a test match nor 190 in a T20.

Just because they produced Wasim and Waqar once upon a time they have propagated this myth that they always have a better bowling attack than ours, when in fact our batting has always been miles better than theirs and our bowling in recent years has been too.

Looking forward to the next hype threads on the latest 13-year old coming around the block.

As a Pakistani, I think you are right. I am getting tired of hyped talents who don't do anything and fade away. India bowling attack is currently much more consistent. It's also far more intelligent. Definitely better than Pakistan bowling.

 

[Bhaijaan]

Yeah its not like India lose defending 220 odd in a T20 ever.


You mentioned your "batting has always been miles better". Well the head to head record wouldn't have been this skewed in Pakistan's favour if your batting had always been miles better.

I agree we are sucking at the moment but to restrict Pakistani bowling legacy to just W & W is highly disingenuous.

Syed bro,

Indian and Pakistani bowling style is very different.

Statistically speaking, Indian bowling as a unit might have similar.or.probably even better record in last decade or two and maybe thats what Varun bhai is referring to.

Our bowling follows a containment strategy where we entice the opposition batsmen tofall into our traps.


What Pakistan is famous for is their aggressive wicket taking style of bowling. Instead of containment plan they target the opposition batsmen stumps and body a lot better.

Also Pakistan used to be way way better at death bowling.

With Shami, Bumrah India might have finally found two bowlers to balance things out. Shami is very Pakistani by nature and Bumrah's death bowling is Umar Gul, Amir level good.

Pakistan isn't going through a great run with the bowling and we shouldn't be mockkng them..Shaheen Afridi is very skilled and Naseem can.turn into beast.

 

[viveks]

Kind of an OTT reaction in this thread after 1 t20. I think Amir has been a consistently very good in T20s for the past few years, I think in T20s only Bumrah has been a better pacer since Malinga. The rest are young, and also you have to accept that you're going to get thrashed a few times in T20s, even the best bowlers will.

 

[sharmaji]

Looking at the 2023 WC, which team do you think will have a better bowling line up? I reckon Shami and Bhuvneshwar will be around 35 and Bumrah around 30, probably not very effective whereas Pak will have Shaheen, Hasnain, Naseem, Haris Rauf all in their prime age. India will have the age problem with batting as well, with Virat, Rohit, Dhawan all around 35 in 2023. Both teams need to groom players in the age group of 21-25 now.

 

[Sidilicious]

Saini is already 28, he is impressive though but not young talent.

We dont necessarily need bowlers to be finished products by the time they are in the early 20s. If we can identify bowlers in the early 20s, and have them ready for international cricket by mid to late 20s, these bowlers can properly serve the team for 5-6 top years. But of course, world class bowlers, and not Dindas.

Saini might be 28, but he could serve the Indian Cricket team well for 5-6 years.

 

[Mesozoic]

Looking at the 2023 WC, which team do you think will have a better bowling line up? I reckon Shami and Bhuvneshwar will be around 35 and Bumrah around 30, probably not very effective whereas Pak will have Shaheen, Hasnain, Naseem, Haris Rauf all in their prime age. India will have the age problem with batting as well, with Virat, Rohit, Dhawan all around 35 in 2023. Both teams need to groom players in the age group of 21-25 now.

This "age problem' is overrated I think.

Not saying we're as good but the world cup winning Aussie team of 2007 had 6 players above 32 and 7 above 30. Their top 3 were 36,35 and 33 respectively. Point is if you're good enough age really doesn't matter. Dhawan, Rohit and Kohli are more than good enough unless their form deteriorates.

It's the same with the Australian top 3 of Warner, Finch and Smith who will be 36,36 and 34 respectively.

 

[Ab Fan]

We dont necessarily need bowlers to be finished products by the time they are in the early 20s. If we can identify bowlers in the early 20s, and have them ready for international cricket by mid to late 20s, these bowlers can properly serve the team for 5-6 top years. But of course, world class bowlers, and not Dindas.

Saini might be 28, but he could serve the Indian Cricket team well for 5-6 years.

Yeah but I was talking about young fast bowlers. Things are good for now but we also need to look for exciting talent coming who is under-25.

 

[sharmaji]

Got it. I hope a few youngsters will be ready by then, just in case.

This "age problem' is overrated I think.

Not saying we're as good but the world cup winning Aussie team of 2007 had 6 players above 32 and 7 above 30. Their top 3 were 36,35 and 33 respectively. Point is if you're good enough age really doesn't matter. Dhawan, Rohit and Kohli are more than good enough unless their form deteriorates.

It's the same with the Australian top 3 of Warner, Finch and Smith who will be 36,36 and 34 respectively.

 

[Usman Chadda]

Pakistan's bowling can neither defend 280 in the 4th innings of a test match nor 190 in a T20.

Just because they produced Wasim and Waqar once upon a time they have propagated this myth that they always have a better bowling attack than ours, when in fact our batting has always been miles better than theirs and our bowling in recent years has been too.

Looking forward to the next hype threads on the latest 13-year old coming around the block.

How many times has India failed to defend 190+ in a T20 game, compared to Pakistan?

How many 200+ totals have India conceded in T20, as compared to Pakistan?

Genuine questions. Let's have some answers.