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Indian pace bowlers are better than their Pakistani counterparts

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All this talk about Pakistani pace bowling being good and Indian bowlers being trundlers - IMO the current India pace bowlers are better than their Pakistan counterparts (Junaid included)

Shami and Umesh are 140+ and move the ball of the seam. Mohit S is line/length and I would put him in the Gavin Larsen mould (slightly more pacey). Bhuvi can swing the ball(once fit) - which is an asset in NZ as Southee showed vs England.
More importantly these guys look clinical, focussed and a lot fitter than Irfan, Sohail and Wahab.

Irfan, the bounce is discomforting but the threat is not that great since he never looks like bowling 10. Thats more headache than help to the captain (you have to hide him on the field). Sohail is just about okay, but seems to put his foot out the shoe and gets tonked. Wahab IMO seems focussed and doing well, but cant control the new ball.

All in all, I would stick my neck out and say Indian pacers are better at this moment.

Thoughts?
 
I would like to see how much runs Indian bowlers give bowling first (without the scorecard pressure) and with 6 dropped catches.
 
We should stay humble until we win.

But yes, even if we get smashed from here, it won't change the fact that our bowlers bowled brilliantly in the first 10 overs.
 
In ICC tournaments, they just manage to come together and perform as a unit. Although I'd say that we have finally got a good set of 4-5 bowlers who can become a world-class attack if nurtured properly.
 
These Indian bowlers arent trundlers

Infact if you consider average speed they are faster than Pakistanis and have better skill set, so yes i agree they are comfortably better than so called Pakistani fast bowlers
 
Electron said:
We should stay humble until we win.

But yes, even if we get smashed from here, it won't change the fact that our bowlers bowled brilliantly in the first 10 overs.
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What has this analysis got to do with humility? No one is getting carried away. I actually think these guys are better than the current Pakistani crop.
 
Irfan and Sohail won't get into the Indian team. Wahab will be selected over Mohit. BK is the best new ball bowler in the subcontinent and easily gets into our team.

Indian bowler step up in ICC events, while the likes of Ajmal and Junaid choke.

Only Wahab seems to have appetite for big games.
 
Cricfan4eva said:
In ICC tournaments, they just manage to come together and perform as a unit. Although I'd say that we have finally got a good set of 4-5 bowlers who can become a world-class attack if nurtured properly.
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These and Aaron, who is not playing. Shane Warne mentioned Aaron today, and talked about how exceptional he can be with his raw talent.
 
Give the Pakistani bowlers 300+ to defend, once against a weak batting side, and then judge them. Lets not even mention that we're missing our three best ODI bowlers.
 
Junaid, Irfan, Riaz, Ajmal, Hafeez and Afridi bowling in tandem will be right up there with South Africa and Australia in terms of ODI bowling.
 
Bilal7 said:
Give the Pakistani bowlers 300+ to defend, once against a weak batting side, and then judge them. Lets not even mention that we're missing our three best ODI bowlers.
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What stops them from restricting opposition under 300?
 
Bilal7 said:
Junaid, Irfan, Riaz, Ajmal, Hafeez and Afridi bowling in tandem will be right up there with South Africa and Australia in terms of ODI bowling.
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No one knows how good Ajmal and Hafeez are without chucking.

Irfan is done and dusted.

Afridi is retiring.

Such straw clutching.
 
Bilal7 said:
Give the Pakistani bowlers 300+ to defend, once against a weak batting side, and then judge them. Lets not even mention that we're missing our three best ODI bowlers.
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so WI batting lineup is 'now' not weak? :))
 
Cricfan4eva said:
so WI batting lineup is 'now' not weak? :))
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They are strong enough to score 300 runs. Most of it was off the death overs though where the Pakistani bowlers did bowl poorly. The Indians are yet to be put in such situations so this thread is premature.

Once again, things would be different if we had our full strength attack.
 
Our 'full strength' attack constitutes of two former chuckers whose bowling abilities with a legal action are yet to be tested.
 
Mamoon said:
No one knows how good Ajmal and Hafeez are without chucking.

Irfan is done and dusted.

Afridi is retiring.

Such straw clutching.
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We only have their prior performances to go by and that is what is going to be used. Irfan isn't done just because you said it and Afridi is still good enough to cover for any bowler having a bad day.

Such whinging.
 
Mamoon said:
Our 'full strength' attack constitutes of two former chuckers whose bowling abilities with a legal action are yet to be tested.
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#1 ODI bowler.

Even Junaid would have made a huge difference in conditions where the ball does swing from time to time and his death bowling would be welcome.
 
Bowling in ODIs is not that important.

But yeah, we're better than Pakistan in that regard. Though that's not hard to do.
 
Bilal7 said:
We only have their prior performances to go by and that is what is going to be used. Irfan isn't done just because you said it and Afridi is still good enough to cover for any bowler having a bad day.

Such whinging.
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Irfan is not among the top 10 pacers around.

Bilal7 said:
#1 ODI bowler.

Even Junaid would have made a huge difference in conditions where the ball does swing from time to time and his death bowling would be welcome.
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Junaid can't swing the ball.

Yes, Ajmal throws the ball better than anyone else, but like I said, he's untested with a legal action. You are simply making assumptions.
 
Indian Attack >> Pakistan attack, but


Pakistan's Moral attack = Best in the world. :amir :ajmal :junaid
 
Indian pacers have been bowling in those conditions for a few months now, obviously they look sharper in terms of accuracy. Plus there fielders save them 10 runs every spell, not to mention take their chances as well. Obviously thats no excuse for Pakistan as a team but based on ability alone Pak pacers are still better in my opinion, especially at the death.
 
Wahab riaz in the two matches to date has bowled well with better control, he's picked one wicket in each match. Ideally we would like him to be taking more wickets in death overs but at the moment he is building smooth rhythm.

Wahab also bowled the fastest ball of the world when he clocked at 154 KPH ( 96 MPH) followed by mitchell starc , mitchell johnson, adam milne who clocked in high 150s KPH and muhammed irfan clocking 149 KPH.

Sohail khan is good prospect but he needs more pace and swing in his bowling whereas his death bowling has been good with yorkers generally. Irfan is generally good with his awkward bounce and length bowling but cause he is not 100% fit he is currently struggling to bowl at his best.

Junaid khan has good pace ( 140-145 KPH) swings the ball both ways and is very good with his death bowling. Then we have umar gul and i believe he needs no introduction as he has been top ODI bowler with his death bowling when fully fit. Then you have muhammed amir coming back and he is incredible talent, quick, swings and seams both ways and knows how to bowl reverse swing yorkers.

Current indian bowlers that is shami, yadav and mohit are looking good and all three bowlers are clocking 140s KPH and bowling tight lengths. I think with over two months experience in australia ( played tri series & test series) they look more settled then unfit irfan, inexperienced sohail and improving wahab.
 
Mamoon said:
Irfan is not among the top 10 pacers around.



Junaid can't swing the ball.

Yes, Ajmal throws the ball better than anyone else, but like I said, he's untested with a legal action. You are simply making assumptions.
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After Starc, MJ, Steyn, Morkel, Southee, Shami, arguments can be made for Irfan to be in there.

Junaid can swing the ball as he showed in that series against India and in South Africa. He would thrive in conditions where swing is in the air like he has done in the past. There is no such thing as "losing your swing".

I'm looking at the performances of guys like Senanayeka who has been bowling like he was before and fully believe that Ajmal wouldn't suffer more than a 30% drop in effectiveness.
 
Bilal7 said:
After Starc, MJ, Steyn, Morkel, Southee, Shami, arguments can be made for Irfan to be in there.

Junaid can swing the ball as he showed in that series against India and in South Africa. He would thrive in conditions where swing is in the air like he has done in the past. There is no such thing as "losing your swing".

I'm looking at the performances of guys like Senanayeka who has been bowling like he was before and fully believe that Ajmal wouldn't suffer more than a 30% drop in effectiveness.
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Irfan is not even in the top 15 IMO. Why? because he cannot promise 10 overs. That's basics really. Its not about looking threatening, its about generating pressure. When the batsman knows, this guy will tire out / get warnings for running on the wicket, there is literally no pressure generated.

Junaid can swing the ball and along with Wahab can do a good job. Sohail and Adil are just like any other so called Indian trundler. Cant comment on the spinners till we see them post correction.

BTW, I also think Pakistan fielding has a lot to contribute in the bowler downfall. Waqar is totally correct in giving these guys a stick up their backsides (if he is doing so). What makes them behave like stars when they cant do the basics well.
 
This has been bugging me from the last 2 years.Its true and I dont see it changing soon considering the bowling talent in the domestic circuit.Shami can swing the ball better then Junaid and not to mention he has extra pace
 
I think series against Lanka gave a good idea about the relative bowling strengths too.

Lankans were smashing Pakistanis for fun, but looked like school kids against India on much better batting surfaces.
 
The key thing is, Indian bowlers get to perform mainly on SC - Indian pitches and grounds where 350 is the norm score. Accordingly their stats are wrongfully skewed. They showed when it matters, outside of SC, they step up. As demonstrated by the CT in Eng and so far now in the WC.

People dismiss Indian batsmen as flat track bullies fed on such easy pickings but fail to ackowledge the same for bowlers.
 
Bilsher007 said:
Wahab riaz in the two matches to date has bowled well with better control, he's picked one wicket in each match. Ideally we would like him to be taking more wickets in death overs but at the moment he is building smooth rhythm.

Wahab also bowled the fastest ball of the world when he clocked at 154 KPH ( 96 MPH) followed by mitchell starc , mitchell johnson, adam milne who clocked in high 150s KPH and muhammed irfan clocking 149 KPH.

Sohail khan is good prospect but he needs more pace and swing in his bowling whereas his death bowling has been good with yorkers generally. Irfan is generally good with his awkward bounce and length bowling but cause he is not 100% fit he is currently struggling to bowl at his best.

Junaid khan has good pace ( 140-145 KPH) swings the ball both ways and is very good with his death bowling. Then we have umar gul and i believe he needs no introduction as he has been top ODI bowler with his death bowling when fully fit. Then you have muhammed amir coming back and he is incredible talent, quick, swings and seams both ways and knows how to bowl reverse swing yorkers.

Current indian bowlers that is shami, yadav and mohit are looking good and all three bowlers are clocking 140s KPH and bowling tight lengths. I think with over two months experience in australia ( played tri series & test series) they look more settled then unfit irfan, inexperienced sohail and improving wahab.
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Talk about exaggeration. One ball bowled at 154 doesn't change the fact that Wahab hardly every maintains 140kph pace. Infact, his average pace for the last one year has been 136kph. Irfan is a trundler after his first spell who doesn't look like picking wickets. As for Junaid, not only has he lost pace, but averaged 150 runs per wicket last year.

Do you seriously believe that these bowlers are better than Shami, Mohit, Umesh, Bhuvi, Ishant and Aaron?
 
Lol at Mohit, Umesh, Ishant (!) and Aaron. Shami is carrying them and if India lose him, like Pakistan have lost Junaid, they would get thrashed. Still have to bowl first in this WC.

Junaid, Irfan, Riaz, Gul are much better than this lot.
 
I think its the fielding plus they have not bowled first yet and the batsmen haven't scored less than 300 everything contributing them to play with confidence!
 
Bilal7 said:
Lol at Mohit, Umesh, Ishant (!) and Aaron. Shami is carrying them and if India lose him, like Pakistan have lost Junaid, they would get thrashed. Still have to bowl first in this WC.

Junaid, Irfan, Riaz, Gul are much better than this lot.
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bowling is good of Pak but fielding is a starring issue imo esp in pressure games they are not able to predict where the bowl will fall!
 
JaDed said:
bowling is good of Pak but fielding is a starring issue imo esp in pressure games they are not able to predict where the bowl will fall!
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This is true. India's fielding is up there with New Zealand and South Africa which is another thing going for their bowling.
 
Someone mark this - unless WY is removed, BD pacers 'll be better than PAK pacers in few years time.

In last match, not a single ball on that seaming track was bowled on right spot. They showed a pitch map of WI bowlers, I can bet that in last 2 years, I haven't seen a single pitch map from PAK pacers.

I am sure, there is some issue with the grip of PAK pacers, they are not swinging, neither cutting off the seam; bowling short & not a single yorker in entire match.

WY needs to be removed immediately, he was never a Head Coach material, now I feel he is destroying the basics of PAK pacers. He himself was unique, I am sure he is trying to implant what worked for him, a lot of which was invented & mastered by him only, but doesn't go by MCC coaching book, so it's not working for others. He isn't technically educated to take the coaching job as - "case by case research & action", neither a good communicator for 2 way information exchange I am sure, everybody is afraid of asking him questions.
 
Tables have turned but not for long. They still haven't produced a bowler like Aamer. With Aamer coming back (if he finds his touch) then Pak will be a stronger unit, alongside Wahab, Junaid and perhaps Irfan/Irfan. Also about time we groom Yasir Shah and find another spinner properly.
 
Mamoon said:
Irfan and Sohail won't get into the Indian team. Wahab will be selected over Mohit. BK is the best new ball bowler in the subcontinent and easily gets into our team.

Indian bowler step up in ICC events, while the likes of Ajmal and Junaid choke.

Only Wahab seems to have appetite for big games.
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Bk is the best new ball bowler? Based on what? Average close to 40 with a strike rate of about a wicket every ten overs?

Man fast bowling standards have slipped...
 
Its only a matter of time before India's bowlers get hammered and are brought down to
Earth.

Two good performances when your batsmen have posted 300 runs does not make it a good attack. But Indian fans are so desperate to claim to have a better attack than Pak. Lol
 
hk031992 said:
Its only a matter of time before India's bowlers get hammered and are brought down to
Earth.

Two good performances when your batsmen have posted 300 runs does not make it a good attack. But Indian fans are so desperate to claim to have a better attack than Pak. Lol
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Lankans thrashed your bowlers all year, but couldn't buy a run against India C attacks. Says a lot. :)
 
Lol, , even a depleted pakistan bowling is better.the problem is experience and acclimitizion with the conditions.indian bowling has been like 3 months there, so by now, they would definitely know the lengths they need to bowl, and that has probably made the difference.
 
Junaid is just a decent bowler, him in the team wouldnt have made big difference, still Indian attack would have been better

Ajmal himself thinks he isnt good enough with his new action

Hafeez is scared to death to get his action tested, and is legally not a bowler as of yet

SO Their is no shame in accepting that our current crop is behind India in ODIs by a fair margin

In tests though i would still rate Rahat and Junaid a bit better than Indian seamers and Wahab can be handy with the Old ball in tests
 
Mamoon said:
Irfan and Sohail won't get into the Indian team. Wahab will be selected over Mohit. BK is the best new ball bowler in the subcontinent and easily gets into our team.

Indian bowler step up in ICC events, while the likes of Ajmal and Junaid choke.

Only Wahab seems to have appetite for big games.
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You missed the best Indian bowler,Mohammad Shami.He in ODIs is better than any Pakistani fast bowler,including Junaid Khan.

We are yet to see how good Ajmal is with his non chucking legal action.
 
Bilal7 said:
Not even the best in his team.
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Shami is easily the best bowler in Asia at the moment... shows in every game he bowls in. Swings the ball at pace. If bowling dibbly dobbly balls that swing in the right conditions is the only criteria for what the best new ball bowler is, forget kulasekra, even a retired Razzaq will probably be the best until he's like 60.

I hate these random analysis that have absolutely no basis... Junaid is "useless" and "overrated" with a 25 average, a decent strike rate. Irfan won't "get into the team" despite clearly having better figures than most Asian bowlers... Sohail has also shown to be impressive with a good domestic record... on the other hand BK gets a free pass, and even the best new ball bowler tag, despite almost averaging Misbah's age.

This type of analysis deserves an ARY spot.
 
Btw Pakistan suffered because of over estimating Mohammad Irfan.Any bowler with an avg of 31 isnt suited to be leading the Pak bowling attack and be their premier bowler.
 
filthyfulltoss said:
Shami is easily the best bowler in Asia at the moment... shows in every game he bowls in. Swings the ball at pace. If bowling dibbly dobbly balls that swing in the right conditions is the only criteria for what the best new ball bowler is, forget kulasekra, even a retired Razzaq will probably be the best until he's like 60.

I hate these random analysis that have absolutely no basis... Junaid is "useless" and "overrated" with a 25 average, a decent strike rate. Irfan won't "get into the team" despite clearly having better figures than most Asian bowlers... Sohail has also shown to be impressive with a good domestic record... on the other hand BK gets a free pass, and even the best new ball bowler tag, despite almost averaging Misbah's age.

This type of analysis deserves an ARY spot.
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Agreed fully. Junaid would have done really well here, IMO.
 
It is true that Indian pace bowlers have improved but this thread is taking it a tad too far.They are average to decent that is it.
Firstly these Indian bowlers have the support of a good fielding unit unlike Pakistan.It makes quite difference.It is true that Indian pacers look good in the opening overs but that is only for the first 3 overs or so.Then things even out.

And I suppose you guys have forgotten what you were doing in the Australia ODI series and the Carlton Mid series where you lost every match I think.What had happened to that great attack back then even in better bowling conditions ?

Shami and Yadav may hit 140 to 145 but that is not really their usual operational speed (mid 130s) and they often go into spray gun mode-more often than Wahab.In today's match and against Pakistan they succeeded due to score board pressure-some rather hit table deliveries were not put away.
And secondly swing is not everything.Pace and bounce matter as much.Swing goes after the first few overs and then you require pace and bounce to succeed which Mohit,Shami and Yadav are not exactly great at.

And who said Wahab doesn't maintain 140 kph pace ? He mostly bowls 140-145 and in the India game was in the mid 140s.And he does have an excellent short ball.And so does Irfan.Speaking of Irfan,swing or no swing,he is pretty good upfront with 140+ pace and the bounce he always gets.In his later spells his pace does decrease (mid 130s is not trundling) but so far we have seen him in SC only so can`t comment on his effectiveness here.And he was injured yet bowled pretty well against India and WI.

As for Sohail Khan,yes he is also a mid 130s bowler but has swing and his death bowling is better than most international bowlers.
 
slice said:
It is true that Indian pace bowlers have improved but this thread is taking it a tad too far.They are average to decent that is it.
Firstly these Indian bowlers have the support of a good fielding unit unlike Pakistan.It makes quite difference.It is true that Indian pacers look good in the opening overs but that is only for the first 3 overs or so.Then things even out.

And I suppose you guys have forgotten what you were doing in the Australia ODI series and the Carlton Mid series where you lost every match I think.What had happened to that great attack back then even in better bowling conditions ?

Shami and Yadav may hit 140 to 145 but that is not really their usual operational speed (mid 130s) and they often go into spray gun mode-more often than Wahab.In today's match and against Pakistan they succeeded due to score board pressure-some rather hit table deliveries were not put away.
And secondly swing is not everything.Pace and bounce matter as much.Swing goes after the first few overs and then you require pace and bounce to succeed which Mohit,Shami and Yadav are not exactly great at.

And who said Wahab doesn't maintain 140 kph pace ? He mostly bowls 140-145 and in the India game was in the mid 140s.And he does have an excellent short ball.And so does Irfan.Speaking of Irfan,swing or no swing,he is pretty good upfront with 140+ pace and the bounce he always gets.In his later spells his pace does decrease (mid 130s is not trundling) but so far we have seen him in SC only so can`t comment on his effectiveness here.And he was injured yet bowled pretty well against India and WI.

As for Sohail Khan,yes he is also a mid 130s bowler but has swing and his death bowling is better than most international bowlers.
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The thread isnt saying that Indian bowlers are great. It is also a function of the quality of Pakistani bowlers in comparison. IMO the Pakistan pace attack is overrated - especially Irfan. Commentators talk him up with the height and bounce factor to sell the game to the viewers but from a cricket competitiveness point of view, he is like any other bowler who will give you decent to good opening spells
 
hur rizvi said:
Junaid is just a decent bowler, him in the team wouldnt have made big difference, still Indian attack would have been better

Ajmal himself thinks he isnt good enough with his new action

Hafeez is scared to death to get his action tested, and is legally not a bowler as of yet

SO Their is no shame in accepting that our current crop is behind India in ODIs by a fair margin

In tests though i would still rate Rahat and Junaid a bit better than Indian seamers and Wahab can be handy with the Old ball in tests
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I agree with this post. More than seamers I find that our LOI spin bowling is better than pakistan's. Especially after ajmal and hafeez were found to be excessively straightening their elbow s. Pakistan has a better test attack for sure.
 
hur rizvi said:
These Indian bowlers arent trundlers

Infact if you consider average speed they are faster than Pakistanis and have better skill set, so yes i agree they are comfortably better than so called Pakistani fast bowlers
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Exactly.

Umesh Yadav on another day would've got at least two-three more wickets. He was making a seasoned player like ABDevilliers hop around isn't easy.
 
Sir Alex said:
Exactly.

Umesh Yadav on another day would've got at least two-three more wickets. He was making a seasoned player like ABDevilliers hop around isn't easy.
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If hopping around is the criteria then Pakistani pacers have also made quite a few greats hop around.
 
Nikhil_cric said:
I agree with this post. More than seamers I find that our LOI spin bowling is better than pakistan's. Especially after ajmal and hafeez were found to be excessively straightening their elbow s. Pakistan has a better test attack for sure.
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We have not brought in replacements yet.
 
Mamoon said:
Irfan and Sohail won't get into the Indian team. Wahab will be selected over Mohit. BK is the best new ball bowler in the subcontinent and easily gets into our team.

Indian bowler step up in ICC events, while the likes of Ajmal and Junaid choke.

Only Wahab seems to have appetite for big games.
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Sohail has good death bowling skills so he sure will.Irfan is currently unfit and he doesn't become a trundler in his later spells but is in mid 130s which is not trundling.Then you have only ever sen him in SC conditions,we have to wait to judge his later spells overseas.
 
Sir Alex said:
Exactly.

Umesh Yadav on another day would've got at least two-three more wickets. He was making a seasoned player like ABDevilliers hop around isn't easy.
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This holds true for Pak pacers as well in not one but almost every match.They seem to have poor luck-dropped catches,defensive fields,edges...
 
slice said:
It is true that Indian pace bowlers have improved but this thread is taking it a tad too far.They are average to decent that is it.
Firstly these Indian bowlers have the support of a good fielding unit unlike Pakistan.It makes quite difference.It is true that Indian pacers look good in the opening overs but that is only for the first 3 overs or so.Then things even out.

And I suppose you guys have forgotten what you were doing in the Australia ODI series and the Carlton Mid series where you lost every match I think.What had happened to that great attack back then even in better bowling conditions ?

Shami and Yadav may hit 140 to 145 but that is not really their usual operational speed (mid 130s) and they often go into spray gun mode-more often than Wahab.In today's match and against Pakistan they succeeded due to score board pressure-some rather hit table deliveries were not put away.
And secondly swing is not everything.Pace and bounce matter as much.Swing goes after the first few overs and then you require pace and bounce to succeed which Mohit,Shami and Yadav are not exactly great at.

And who said Wahab doesn't maintain 140 kph pace ? He mostly bowls 140-145 and in the India game was in the mid 140s.And he does have an excellent short ball.And so does Irfan.Speaking of Irfan,swing or no swing,he is pretty good upfront with 140+ pace and the bounce he always gets.In his later spells his pace does decrease (mid 130s is not trundling) but so far we have seen him in SC only so can`t comment on his effectiveness here.And he was injured yet bowled pretty well against India and WI.

As for Sohail Khan,yes he is also a mid 130s bowler but has swing and his death bowling is better than most international bowlers.
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You must be watching some other games if you think Yadav operates in mid 130s.Shami is also quite Sharp.

Regarding the tri series India used it as a tourney to get their combination right and thats the way it is.

Stop hyping your bowlers.This present attack of yours is no way better than Indias.

Irfan is a lesser bowler than Shami in ODIs and by a distance.Check their stats and you will know.

And Sohail Khan is better than most International bowlers at death.Based on what?One ODI?We saw what happened versus WI.

Stop hyping your bowlers.The present attack is in noway better than Indias attack.
 
Sir Alex said:
Indeed - and may I add - win matches as well.
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Usually, the quality of pacers or the whole bowling unit is assessed by how good they are at defending lower totals.if you look at today match, most of south african panicked under the huge scoreboard pressure.it will different ball game when they will have to defend small totals, thats where their actual mettle will be tested.
 
Bilal7 said:
This is true. India's fielding is up there with New Zealand and South Africa which is another thing going for their bowling.
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I think that's taking it too far.. India has improved in the fielding but nowhere close to NZ or SA as a whole.
 
MMHS said:
Someone mark this - unless WY is removed, BD pacers 'll be better than PAK pacers in few years time.

In last match, not a single ball on that seaming track was bowled on right spot. They showed a pitch map of WI bowlers, I can bet that in last 2 years, I haven't seen a single pitch map from PAK pacers.

I am sure, there is some issue with the grip of PAK pacers, they are not swinging, neither cutting off the seam; bowling short & not a single yorker in entire match.

WY needs to be removed immediately, he was never a Head Coach material, now I feel he is destroying the basics of PAK pacers. He himself was unique, I am sure he is trying to implant what worked for him, a lot of which was invented & mastered by him only, but doesn't go by MCC coaching book, so it's not working for others. He isn't technically educated to take the coaching job as - "case by case research & action", neither a good communicator for 2 way information exchange I am sure, everybody is afraid of asking him questions.
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Don't waste your time with people who don't understand cricket and can't look past their tinted glasses. It is a lost cause.
 
Current Pakistani bowling is in bad form, and it doesn't take a special cricket analyst to observe that. When you let two (although aggressive) out of form batting sides, score 300+ in two consecutive matches, you don't have right to boast of your bowling.

Patriotism takes over reality in case of some knowledgeable posters here, when they talk about chuckers returning at the age of 38-39 and making the bowling side a world beater again.
 
Mamoon said:
Don't waste your time with people who don't understand cricket and can't look past their tinted glasses. It is a lost cause.
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I suppose nobody defends him here.if bowlers like akram or waqi were that good to impart their skills to bowlers, the bcci and other boards around the world would have recruited them in a blink of an eye.both were prodigious talents but as mmhs said what worked for them wont work for others.
 
cricketjoshila said:
You must be watching some other games if you think Yadav operates in mid 130s.Shami is also quite Sharp.

Regarding the tri series India used it as a tourney to get their combination right and thats the way it is.

Stop hyping your bowlers.This present attack of yours is no way better than Indias.

Irfan is a lesser bowler than Shami in ODIs and by a distance.Check their stats and you will know.

And Sohail Khan is better than most International bowlers at death.Based on what?One ODI?We saw what happened versus WI.

Stop hyping your bowlers.The present attack is in noway better than Indias attack.
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I never said that they operate exclusively in mid 130s but they often slip into mid 130s like Irfan.Wahab remains more in 140s.
As for stats,well stats don`t tell the whole picture as Pak played most of its matches sin SC and they have a fair few dropped catches and poor fielding to boot.
And as for Sohail Khans death bowling,he has domestic record to back him and matches against India,Bangladesh and England.You are detracting him on one match against WI where the boundaries were small too.

Even if it was an experimental series,this still does not justify your bowling failure.And what of the Australia Test and ODIs before that ?
 
tempus123 said:
Current Pakistani bowling is in bad form, and it doesn't take a special cricket analyst to observe that. When you let two (although aggressive) out of form batting sides, score 300+ in two consecutive matches, you don't have right to boast of your bowling.

Patriotism takes over reality in case of some knowledgeable posters here, when they talk about chuckers returning at the age of 38-39 and making the bowling side a world beater again.
Click to expand...

So,SA let this out of form side score 300+ does this mean they are worse than Pakistan ?
You forget that WI were pretty lucky.You must have been asleep if you think that quality wise Pak bowling was poor int that match.
 
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