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India's death bowling woes - What is the solution?

MenInG

MenInG

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The solution is the best bowler in the world and he is injured right now. India has nothing to worry about.
 
Well it seems they have everything to be worried about cos that bowler you mention is most likely out of the world cu.
 
Mamoon said:
The solution is the best bowler in the world and he is injured right now. India has nothing to worry about.
Click to expand...

Is he going to bowl from both ends and for 20 overs?
 
There is no solution. Why? Because selectors are not interested in giving any new youngster chances.

The squad for SA ODI series has

Shardul Thakur ( Apparently the selectors told him he is a 3 format player. This is like Vijay Shankar being 3D player.)

Avesh Khan ( He is getting hit whenever he plays)

Mukesh Kumar ( A swing bowler like BK Chahar, perhaps even slower. How many of this kind we need in the squad?)

Deepak Chahar ( Can't bowl at death and if the ball doesn't swing, he is buffet)

Now 3 out of the 4 selectors are medium pacers, 2 of whom didn't have much of a career, the 3rd one is known for getting hit for a six.

The situation isn't going to improve anytime soon.
 
Solution is to let Indian batters score 220+ every match (like yesterday) and let the Indian bowlers do their best to defend.
 
MenInG said:
Is he going to bowl from both ends and for 20 overs?
Click to expand...

Death bowling does not last for 20 overs. It essentially means the last 5 overs of the innings and Bumrah usually bowls 2 of them.

He is arguably the best death bowler in the world, and if he is not available India will obviously struggle. It is a very difficult job and hardly any team has multiple great death bowlers.

This would be equivalent to Pakistan asking for a solution to its new ball bowling when the solution is Shaheen who is injured.
 
Look Bumrah, as it is understood now, is injury prone, so there is definitely a need to look for more options. I think Shami, Siraj and Chahar are good options and they should be persisted with. Arshdeep we have to wait and see how he goes. As far Harshal, I'm not at all convinced that he even deserves to be in the side, let alone be the answer to death bowling woes.
 
Read that there are 2 domestic Indian bowlers who can bowl 145-150 and they are going with Indian team to Australia. But they will only bowl to Indian batsmen in net. For opponents India will serve 130K swinging bowlers.
 
it is funny that the same bowlers bowl 20th over better lol Especially Arshdeep and Harshal. Something with 19th over and India. They completely hand over the advantage back to the opposition. One common thing is they all lack pace. Shami can be quick. But he is garbage in T20.
 
Indian bowlers need to do away with their rubbish wide slower deliveries during death overs. Those are like Kumble's wronguns in the sense that every batsman can pick it and the bowler refuses to believe so. If you are bowling wide, just bowl wide yorkers.
 
Man It kind of feels like we took 2 steps back with bowling after our coaching staff change.. we were on a path to have a good bowling culture within 10 years time and now its again back to "clueless bowling era".
 
BK should not bowl at the death. Same goes for Harshal and Avesh.

16-20 should be bowled by Bumrah and Arshdeep. I know Arshdeep had a bad day yesterday, but he has the skills.
 
There is No solution!
The only all format bowler is injured!
Shami, siraj and Bhuvi are only good in test cricket.

It also happens when your bowling coach is someone who has an average of 40 and 70 in ODIS and Test cricket respectively.
 
There is no solution.
Our batsmen has to score heavily in every match.
Our bowlers can't defend the target anything below 200.
 
Some other issues also

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-partner="tweetdeck"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">In 4 out of their last 6 T20Is Indian bowlers have gone for:<br><br>227/3 v South Africa<br>221/3 v South Africa<br>186/7 v Australia<br>211/6 v Australia<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/INDvSA?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#INDvSA</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Cricket?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Cricket</a></p>— Saj Sadiq (@SajSadiqCricket) <a href="https://twitter.com/SajSadiqCricket/status/1577348884938080258?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 4, 2022</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>


<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-partner="tweetdeck"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">India's bowlers have gone for more than 200 runs on 6 occasions so far this year:<br><br>227/3 v South Africa<br>221/3 v South Africa<br>211/6 v Australia<br>215/7 v England<br>221/5 v Ireland<br>212/3 v South Africa<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Cricket?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Cricket</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/INDvSA?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#INDvSA</a></p>— Saj Sadiq (@SajSadiqCricket) <a href="https://twitter.com/SajSadiqCricket/status/1577349744472604682?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 4, 2022</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
Import foreign players like England does. :)

I think India has to manage with what they got. With no Bumrah, the Indian team has a challenging task ahead in the WC.
Hope the Indian bowlers step up and don't lose the match of their generosity.
 
Almost all pacers go for runs. Difference India's spinners also go for runs. That is where the real issue is.
 
Arshdeep is the only death over bowler we have now. But who is gonna support him from other end?
 
3 weeks before WC, there is no point worrying about squad weaknesses. It is what it is and now best must be done with available players.

India should back Harshal, Bhuvi, Shami and hope their experience will be useful in Aussie conditions.

Pak should back Ifti, Khusdil, Asif and hope that bowlers and openers perform well enough to cover for them

Teams have won WCs and WT20s before with glaring weaknesses in XI by simply turning up in big moments on big days. It is essentially a tournament where you need 3 really good games to win the cup and each of top 6 teams have enough talent to pull it off
 
First thing is to admit that they have a problem. Dravid keeps saying that bowling unit gets the job done although it may not look exciting.
 
Mamoon said:
Death bowling does not last for 20 overs. It essentially means the last 5 overs of the innings and Bumrah usually bowls 2 of them.

He is arguably the best death bowler in the world, and if he is not available India will obviously struggle. It is a very difficult job and hardly any team has multiple great death bowlers.

This would be equivalent to Pakistan asking for a solution to its new ball bowling when the solution is Shaheen who is injured.
Click to expand...

The so called best death bowler is injured and we don’t know how he will respond to recovery. Shaheen is also injured and we don’t know how he’ll respond to recovery.

WE judge OUR bowling attack on current performance and what is available. This is why WE are judging wasim Jr, hasnain, Dahani so harshly because WE are looking for solutions.

YOU are still beating your chest about YOUR so called death bowler without looking for solutions.
 
indian bowling struggle against left handed batsmen which is very odd to see .Hopefully one of nawaz or fakhar score decently against them
 
shujaatraza said:
So they are a one man team? No backups for the greatest cricket nation?
Click to expand...

India is a world class cricket team because they have several world class players, not because they have several world class players that can replace the several world class players.

When a star player is unavailable, it is inevitable that there will be a drop in quality. You look at the 150+ years of cricket history and you will struggle to find teams that had the kind of squad depth where the unavailability of a world class player had no ramifications.

Perhaps the two greatest teams of all time, West Indies and Australia, had enough depth to keep dominating without a few star players but even then, you take Viv and Marshall and Gilchrist and McGrath out of those teams and there will be drop in quality.
 
Mohammed Siraj bowled quite admirably at the death.

I think an attack that consists of Siraj/Shami will do just fine in Australia.

If Bhuvi does play then they should try to just bowl him out by the 12th over. He is a decent bowler with the new ball but loses the plot when its a bit older and batters are going for him.
 
TheSultan said:
The so called best death bowler is injured and we don’t know how he will respond to recovery. Shaheen is also injured and we don’t know how he’ll respond to recovery.

WE judge OUR bowling attack on current performance and what is available. This is why WE are judging wasim Jr, hasnain, Dahani so harshly because WE are looking for solutions.

YOU are still beating your chest about YOUR so called death bowler without looking for solutions.
Click to expand...

When a star player gets injured, the immediate need is to get him fit again and not worry about hypotheticals like what if he doesn’t recover and what if he dies. That is a problem that you deal with when it knocks on your front door.

Every team needs depth, that is true. However, some positions are harder to fill than others. Death bowling in LOIs is one of the hardest, if not the hardest job in cricket right now because the margin of error is extremely low and you have to be really good to deliver consistently.

Hence, it is not surprising that India is struggling without Bumrah. The immediate concern is to get him fit as soon as possible and not what will happen if he doesn’t recover properly.

Pakistan’s problems are a bit different because they major issue is not new ball bowling but losing control in the middle and death overs. Hasnain has bowled well with the new ball but it is the second half of the innings where Pakistan has lost control and that is why they lost the Asia Cup final as well.

Unfortunately, Shaheen at this point does not offer a solution to those whose because his second spell is nowhere near as impressive as the first one.
 
Mamoon said:
When a star player gets injured, the immediate need is to get him fit again and not worry about hypotheticals like what if he doesn’t recover and what if he dies. That is a problem that you deal with when it knocks on your front door.

Every team needs depth, that is true. However, some positions are harder to fill than others. Death bowling in LOIs is one of the hardest, if not the hardest job in cricket right now because the margin of error is extremely low and you have to be really good to deliver consistently.

Hence, it is not surprising that India is struggling without Bumrah. The immediate concern is to get him fit as soon as possible and not what will happen if he doesn’t recover properly.

Pakistan’s problems are a bit different because they major issue is not new ball bowling but losing control in the middle and death overs. Hasnain has bowled well with the new ball but it is the second half of the innings where Pakistan has lost control and that is why they lost the Asia Cup final as well.

Unfortunately, Shaheen at this point does not offer a solution to those whose because his second spell is nowhere near as impressive as the first one.
Click to expand...

it’s the other way round. Rather than hoping and praying for the guy to get back, you need to look for solutions too. In your world, don’t worry this guy will come back so everything is rosy. I believe it was yourself (or some other poster, I forget) that was praying for Archer to come back and take his mantle as greatest thing since sliced bread. He’s still not back.

I know you are playing this role of Indian cheerleader in chief and you want to make that plainly obvious, but please don’t try so hard. Learn some subtlety.
 
TheSultan said:
it’s the other way round. Rather than hoping and praying for the guy to get back, you need to look for solutions too. In your world, don’t worry this guy will come back so everything is rosy. I believe it was yourself (or some other poster, I forget) that was praying for Archer to come back and take his mantle as greatest thing since sliced bread. He’s still not back.

I know you are playing this role of Indian cheerleader in chief and you want to make that plainly obvious, but please don’t try so hard. Learn some subtlety.
Click to expand...

You need to look for solutions and India is looking for them which is why they keep trying different combinations.

But if India is struggling to replace him it doesn’t make them weak and doesn’t put their status as a world class team under scrutiny. Literally every team in the world, past or present, would find it difficult to replace its best players without suffering a dip in quality.

Pakistani fans like to cry about India too much. The inferiority complex is too strong. That is a bigger problem than India’s death bowling without Bumrah.
 
JaDed said:
Man It kind of feels like we took 2 steps back with bowling after our coaching staff change.. we were on a path to have a good bowling culture within 10 years time and now its again back to "clueless bowling era".
Click to expand...

Spot on m8. Looking at these cotton candy pop gun bowlers, i feel we shall be looking at 10 ov 90/0 and chasing 180-210 every match and these halwa bowlers will not be defending 220+.
Can believe how Sir Bhuvi Bradman Rhodes Steyn Sobers gets selected year after year of bowling 120kmph mediocre trash.
And now i read we selected mukesh kumar...geez not another kumar military medium 125 kmph who is 29 years old. Why the fridge dont they select umraan, kuldeep sen, tyagi, rajvardan hangar etc who are young fresh and bowl 140kmph+ ?
Our mindset, mentality psyche has taken a massive backward step as you rightly pointed out.
I'd back our guys to be toasted on ice come this WC. very happy to be proven wrong
 
Mamoon said:
You need to look for solutions and India is looking for them which is why they keep trying different combinations.

But if India is struggling to replace him it doesn’t make them weak and doesn’t put their status as a world class team under scrutiny. Literally every team in the world, past or present, would find it difficult to replace its best players without suffering a dip in quality.

Pakistani fans like to cry about India too much. The inferiority complex is too strong. That is a bigger problem than India’s death bowling without Bumrah.
Click to expand...

So India’s bowling strength is ONE bowler who has now had 2 stress fractures of the lower back. Bodes very well for the future. The have a bit of a saviour complex methinks! The irony.

Personally, I think most Indian fans are a bit more balanced and are actually looking for solutions rather than hoping and praying for Bumrah to return
 
pakfan54588 said:
indian bowling struggle against left handed batsmen which is very odd to see .Hopefully one of nawaz or fakhar score decently against them
Click to expand...

That is just a myth. Left hander strike rate is pretty much the same against all opposition except NZ and Australia. NZ is the best against left handers.
 
CrIc_Mystique said:
Spot on m8. Looking at these cotton candy pop gun bowlers, i feel we shall be looking at 10 ov 90/0 and chasing 180-210 every match and these halwa bowlers will not be defending 220+.
Can believe how Sir Bhuvi Bradman Rhodes Steyn Sobers gets selected year after year of bowling 120kmph mediocre trash.
And now i read we selected mukesh kumar...geez not another kumar military medium 125 kmph who is 29 years old. Why the fridge dont they select umraan, kuldeep sen, tyagi, rajvardan hangar etc who are young fresh and bowl 140kmph+ ?
Our mindset, mentality psyche has taken a massive backward step as you rightly pointed out.
I'd back our guys to be toasted on ice come this WC. very happy to be proven wrong
Click to expand...

What hurts me more is even with the speeds equal to Lankan bowlers of Asia cup we don't have their damn accuracy or smartness.

Torture till management change I guess :rohit
 
JaDed said:
What hurts me more is even with the speeds equal to Lankan bowlers of Asia cup we don't have their damn accuracy or smartness.

Torture till management change I guess :rohit
Click to expand...

In IPL alone there were promising bowlers. Forget about Umran. Even Khaleel looked decent. Moshin khan was the pick. Most of the time even experienced batsman could touch his bowling. India went with players based on their international experience rather than form, potential.
 
jnaveen1980 said:
In IPL alone there were promising bowlers. Forget about Umran. Even Khaleel looked decent. Moshin khan was the pick. Most of the time even experienced batsman could touch his bowling. India went with players based on their international experience rather than form, potential.
Click to expand...

I heard Mohsin had hamstring issues. I don't think India have too many ready made options in terms of bowlers who have pace and are of a high quality.

Mohsin might be the only one imo. Umran is quick but does not have the requisite control.
 
Even with the bowling options India has currently, the overall bowling will be more effective if we bowl the correct bowlers in each phase.

Arshdeep and Pandya should backload 2 overs each to bowl exclusively at the death.

For me, the real concern is actually spin bowling. If Chahal bowls at his best and Rohit gets the right seamers in right phases, we have a decent chance at this World T20
 
NEW DELHI: India’s T20 bowlers need to lift their game in the final overs, head coach Rahul Dravid has said, after pace spearhead Jasprit Bumrah’s injury ruled him out of this month’s World Cup.

Rohit Sharma’s men have haemorrhaged runs at the tail-end of their recent T20 series against both South Africa and Australia, conceding 73 in the last five overs of Tuesday’s loss to the Proteas at Indore.

“We have to look at how we can get better,” Dravid told reporters after the match. “Certainly that’s an area that we would like to improve and get better at because margins can be really small in these big tournaments, and every boundary can matter.”

A back injury to Bumrah, who is known as “yorker king” for his ability to bowl the toe-crushing deliveries, has been a big blow to India ahead of the showpiece T20 tournament in Australia, which starts on Oct 16.

Dravid said the team will miss the speedster but are in no hurry to name his replacement.

“Bumrah’s absence is a big loss, he’s been a great player but it happens, it’s an opportunity for someone else to stand up,” Dravid said.

The head coach added that Mohammed Shami would be an “ideal” replacement but it was too soon to tell whether the pacer had recovered from his recent bout with Covid.

“We have to get reports as to how he is recovering and what’s his status... and we will take a call,” he said.

Shami, Deepak Chahar and Mohammed Siraj are seen as the front-runners to replace Bumrah. While Siraj and Chahar were part of India’s 2-1 T20 series win over South Africa, Shami has been out of action after failing to recover in time.

“Shami obviously is someone who’s in the standbys, but unfortunately for us, he couldn’t play this [South Africa] series, which would have been ideal from that perspective,” Dravid told reporters.

Shami is undergoing recovery at the National Cricket Academy in Bengaluru. The Indian team management and selectors have until Oct 15 to name the replacement.

Captain Rohit Sharma said the team would be looking at players who have previous experience of bowling in Australia.“I don’t know who that guy is yet. There are a few guys in the reckoning for that, but we’ll make that call once we reach Australia,” he added.

Top-ranked India’s World Cup squad will depart for Perth on Thursday to get used to local conditions. They begin their World Cup campaign in Melbourne against arch-rivals Pakistan on Oct 23.

Published in Dawn, October 6th, 2022
 
Nikhil_cric said:
I heard Mohsin had hamstring issues. I don't think India have too many ready made options in terms of bowlers who have pace and are of a high quality.

Mohsin might be the only one imo. Umran is quick but does not have the requisite control.
Click to expand...

Kuldeep sen probably could have been given a go. Given that it is Australia you need wheels
 
Smbhayi said:
What happened to Natarajan by the way?
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He had some injuries I think and then when he came back, he was not landing his Yorkers well and had a poor IPL season where he ended up costing his team a couple of games. Not sure why he wasn't consider after that.
 
shamaan said:
No other solution baring Bumrah ?
Click to expand...

true. not many options. and we have a mentality of picking the halwa medium pacers .
i feel any one of kuldeep sen, umraan, mohiseen , the young u 19 hangar guy wold be better than harshal. we just donot have anyone who can push them on the back foot other than shami.
 
JaDed said:
What hurts me more is even with the speeds equal to Lankan bowlers of Asia cup we don't have their damn accuracy or smartness.

Torture till management change I guess :rohit
Click to expand...

True.
Dont know why did we let go of Bharat Arun for bowling coach and sridhar for fielding.
Amongst the home grown coaches, arun sir was fantastic, sridhar is legend.
I wish we'd get craig mcD as bowling coach, he would do a great job of coaching these guys.
 
India's bowling attack is very one-dimensional. If they bring in Deepak Chahar they will be making it even more one-dimensional by bringing in a bowler that is similar to Bhuvneshawar Kumar.

Arshdeep looks like their best death-bowling option right now.
 
Bhaag Viru Bhaag said:
India need a bowler like Haris Rauf. May be Umran Malik can do that job in the future? :inti
Click to expand...

He should be played in every match; the batting is strong enough to cover if one bowler has a bad day but when he gets experience he'll be an asset.

India and Pakistan both suffer from mental shackles and need to break them as soon as possible.
 
Siraj has looked good in the death overs against South Africa. Hope he gets picked ahead of Shami (who's atrocious on his bad days) for the WC.

Him and Arshdeep can be a decent pair to bowl in the back end. Another underrated and under utilized player is Ashwin, who's an extremely clever operator in death overs. Pretty sure Rohit will look into that aspect as well.

Siraj
Arshdeep
Chahar/Bhuvi
Axar
Ashwin

That's not a bad attack at all.
 
Last edited:
CrIc_Mystique said:
true. not many options. and we have a mentality of picking the halwa medium pacers .
i feel any one of kuldeep sen, umraan, mohiseen , the young u 19 hangar guy wold be better than harshal. we just donot have anyone who can push them on the back foot other than shami.
Click to expand...

I think it would be tough for a young inexperienced player to lead the attack in the world cup should have brought them into the xi long before this world cup.
 
Indian batsmen will need to twice aswell as they can to carry this jobber bowling attack :))
 
Usman Chadda said:
Indian batsmen will need to twice aswell as they can to carry this jobber bowling attack :))
Click to expand...

It is easier for strong bowlers carrying a weak batting unit than Strong batting unit carrying weak bowling unit. Batsmen one mistake he is gone. Bowlers can always come back.
 
Mesozoic said:
Siraj has looked good in the death overs against South Africa. Hope he gets picked ahead of Shami (who's atrocious on his bad days) for the WC.

Him and Arshdeep can be a decent pair to bowl in the back end. Another underrated and under utilized player is Ashwin, who's an extremely clever operator in death overs. Pretty sure Rohit will look into that aspect as well.

Siraj
Arshdeep
Chahar/Bhuvi
Axar
Ashwin

That's not a bad attack at all.
Click to expand...

Defensive is the word here. I would go with :

Siraj
Arshdeep
Chahar/Bhuvi
Axar
Chahal

That's all the options we are left with now. Chahal over Ashwin because he is a wicket taker unlike Ashwin who is a defensive spinner.
 
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