India's obsession with lighter skin

[endymion248]

Good that you've at least conceded the point in relation to the environment, albeit only in regards to skin colour. Now read this in regards to height and how some populations have become taller just in the last few hundred years, due to better diet (ie availability and type of food resources).



So that's two of the most visible physical features, skin colour and height, taken care of, ie both being affected by the environment and/or type/availability of food resources. In the case of height, taking less a couple of hundred years for the differences to show.

Now you can extrapolate that and it's not difficult to see how, over longer periods, other physical feature can also be affected by the local environment and local food resources.

You are showing a basic misunderstanding of evolution. The progress of height due to nutrition has little to do with genetics and thus evolution. If we go back to the old diet, we go back to the old height.

 

[Yossarian]

You are showing a basic misunderstanding of evolution. The progress of height due to nutrition has little to do with genetics and thus evolution. If we go back to the old diet, we go back to the old height.

All my posts have been about physical attributes changing over time due to local environmental factors and availability/type of food resources. Nothing more, nothing less. If you are unwilling to see or comprehend that and read something else into it, then that's up to you.

Heck, even you've admitted this in regards to skin colour, plus the example I've given vis-a-vis height and diet !!

 

[endymion248]

All my posts have been about physical attributes changing over time due to local environmental factors and availability/type of food resources. Nothing more, nothing less. If you are unwilling to see or comprehend that and read something else into it, then that's up to you.

Heck, even you've admitted this in regards to skin colour, plus the example I've given vis-a-vis height and diet !!

You said that environment is important in shaping races. Races are a genetic concept. If I get tanned under the sun, that doesn't change my genetics. If I eat better and become taller, that doesn't change the potential height of my children. What does change it is when people who are darker are selected so that darker children end up being more numerous and taller people are selected so that taller children end up being more numerous.

 

[ChachaCricket]

You said that environment is important in shaping races. Races are a genetic concept. If I get tanned under the sun, that doesn't change my genetics. If I eat better and become taller, that doesn't change the potential height of my children. What does change it is when people who are darker are selected so that darker children end up being more numerous and taller people are selected so that taller children end up being more numerous.

Are you saying the environment, diet, physical activity etc. does not change your genetics?

 

[endymion248]

Are you saying the environment, diet, physical activity etc. does not change your genetics?

It can change epigenetics. The changes in genetics are mostly mutations.

 

[Yossarian]

You said that environment is important in shaping races. Races are a genetic concept. If I get tanned under the sun, that doesn't change my genetics. If I eat better and become taller, that doesn't change the potential height of my children. What does change it is when people who are darker are selected so that darker children end up being more numerous and taller people are selected so that taller children end up being more numerous.

Skin colour and height do get passed on from generation to generation. Now I am not a biologist or geneticist, in fact biology was not even a topic that I studied at school or uni, but even I can see that in order to pass physical traits, such as height and skin colour, on from one generation to another, genetics/genes have to be involved in some way or another. Sometimes so called 'experts' get so hooked up in their own little worlds that they can't see the wood for the trees.

 

[Yossarian]

Are you saying the environment, diet, physical activity etc. does not change your genetics?

It can change epigenetics. The changes in genetics are mostly mutations.

It's not green but a shade of green. Therefore it's not green. Experts eh?

 

[endymion248]

Skin colour and height do get passed on from generation to generation. Now I am not a biologist or geneticist, in fact biology was not even a topic that I studied at school or uni, but even I can see that in order to pass physical traits, such as height and skin colour, on from one generation to another, genetics/genes have to be involved in some way or another. Sometimes so called 'experts' get so hooked up in their own little worlds that they can't see the wood for the trees.

Yes, height is a genetic trait, not increase in height due to nutrition which is where this discussion started.

 

[endymion248]

It's not green but a shade of green. Therefore it's not green. Experts eh?

I'm not an expert either but I do known that epigenetics and genetics are not the same thing or that, if a Dutch kid ate like an African kid then he would be shorter than his parents.

 

[Yossarian]

Yes, height is a genetic trait, not increase in height due to nutrition which is where this discussion started.

So whilst you agree that height is a genetic trait, you disagree that nutrition has anything to do with changes in height over generations? How else do you think these changes are passed on from generation to generation if not via the parental genes?

I refer you again to a prior post.

Q: Why are people taller today than yesterday?

A: There are two main reasons. One is that the diet has improved considerably. In spite of some very negative aspects of the diet of industrialized populations, we have much better vitamin, mineral and protein intake than 100 or 200 years ago. As a consequence the body can grow much better.

http://content.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1820836,00.html

 

[speed]

does fair and lovely work?

 

[endymion248]

So whilst you agree that height is a genetic trait, you disagree that nutrition has anything to do with changes in height over generations? How else do you think these changes are passed on from generation to generation if not via the parental genes?

I refer you again to a prior post.

You are misunderstanding the concept. The better diet, the greater the height. If you go back to the old diet, the kids will be shorter.

 

[Yossarian]

I'm not an expert either but I do known that epigenetics and genetics are not the same thing or that, if a Dutch kid ate like an African kid then he would be shorter than his parents.

"epigenetics and genetics are not the same thing". From the point of scientific and technical definition, maybe not, but try telling that to the average individual.
It's the equivalent of telling an average internet user that the data they are accessing is stored on a Microsoft SQL Server relational database management system as opposed to an Oracle RDBMS.

 

[Yossarian]

You are misunderstanding the concept. The better diet, the greater the height. If you go back to the old diet, the kids will be shorter.

Which will still be passed on, from generation to generation, via genes. Unless you think it's via email or a USB flash drive!

 

[endymion248]

Which will still be passed on, from generation to generation, via genes. Unless you think it's via email or a USB flash drive!

Who said that the changes get passed on from generation to generation genetically? During WWII, the german children were born shorter than their parents and their children.

 

[Yossarian]

Who said that the changes get passed on from generation to generation genetically? During WWII, the german children were born shorter than their parents and their children.

1. See my post #253 above.

2. Read again the link I provided, and quoted from in some previous posts. Here is the link again.
http://content.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1820836,00.html

3. And if after all that, you still think the same, then answer the question in the post you quoted,
ie How skin colour (which you've already admitted) and height (as mentioned in the link I quoted) is passed on between generations."Unless you think it's via email or a USB flash drive!"

Once you've done all that, come back and post again.

 

[endymion248]

1. See my post #253 above.

2. Read again the link I provided, and quoted from in some previous posts. Here is the link again.
http://content.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1820836,00.html

3. And if after all that, you still think the same, then answer the question in the post you quoted,
ie How skin colour (which you've already admitted) and height (as mentioned in the link I quoted) is passed on between generations."Unless you think it's via email or a USB flash drive!"

Once you've done all that, come back and post again.

Nowhere in your article does it say that the recent changes in height are genetic.

Just because height is genetic doesn't mean that is entirely genetic, health and nutrition plays a big part in determining final height.

How this discussion has lasted so long is beyond me, it's a simple enough concept to understand.

 

[Yossarian]

Nowhere in your article does it say that the recent changes in height are genetic.

Just because height is genetic doesn't mean that is entirely genetic, health and nutrition plays a big part in determining final height.

How this discussion has lasted so long is beyond me, it's a simple enough concept to understand.

Did you take the various steps in my previous, post which you've quoted? If not, you should before posting.

And like I said, try answering the question posted in point 3.

If you can't, or are unwilling, to do that, then bye, bye.

 

[endymion248]

Did you take the various steps in my previous, post which you've quoted? If not, you should before posting.

And like I said, try answering the question posted in point 3.

If you can't, or are unwilling, to do that, then bye, bye.

No need to offuscate discussion in a patronizing manner just because you can't defend your position. Like I said, it's a simple enough concept that you are purposefully refusing to understand; it's your loss, not mine.

 

[Yossarian]

No need to offuscate discussion in a patronizing manner just because you can't defend your position. Like I said, it's a simple enough concept that you are purposefully refusing to understand; it's your loss, not mine.

 

[street cricketer]

There is both a genetic component and a nutritional component affecting the growth of an individual. It's never mutually exclusive.

Even if you get all the nutrition in the world, chances are there that you would be of short stature. At the same time, even if you don't get the adequate nutrition, chances are there that you may end up tall or of at least normal height like your parents.

 

[mustang]

Skin color issue in Bollywood

I have read about this before and also seen this to an extent during my short stint in India. Interesting to see a short BBC video about rooted preference for lighter skin in Indian cinema - https://www.bbc.com/news/av/enterta...indian-cinema-have-a-problem-with-skin-colour

To the Indians - Is there more awareness against this now and is this trending lower or is it trending to be at status quo for the foreseeable future? My assumption is that bollywood's skin color preference is a reflection of the society at large as well.

To the Pakistanis - Is this also as prevalent in Pakistan as in India? I initially assumed it would not be the case because Islam on paper preaches equality across these divisions but social reality could be different, hence my question. Do Pakistanis in general take pride that they are lighter skinned than the Indians on average across the 2 respective countries?

 

[amax]

I have read about this before and also seen this to an extent during my short stint in India. Interesting to see a short BBC video about rooted preference for lighter skin in Indian cinema - https://www.bbc.com/news/av/enterta...indian-cinema-have-a-problem-with-skin-colour

To the Indians - Is there more awareness against this now and is this trending lower or is it trending to be at status quo for the foreseeable future? My assumption is that bollywood's skin color preference is a reflection of the society at large as well.

To the Pakistanis - Is this also as prevalent in Pakistan as in India? I initially assumed it would not be the case because Islam on paper preaches equality across these divisions but social reality could be different, hence my question. Do Pakistanis in general take pride that they are lighter skinned than the Indians on average across the 2 respective countries?

preference for lighter skinned is in all non european socities to certain extent , reason is that europeans have defined the modern world and they are lightest people in the world, but in Pakistan its less obvious since country is reletively homogenous than india and there are less variation across cast/social class lines as you see in india. Though personally from my experience rural people through out pakistan from punjab/kpk/sindh/balochistan/gilgit etc very proud and dont overwhelm by western norms. As for pakistanis taking pride in being lighter than indian , never seen this among mature paks , since we overselves are so diverse and come in different shades. Immature people exist everywhere.

 

[troodon]

Lets not blame everything on Europeans.

In India,
Lighter Skin = Upper Caste, royal genes, more appealing and rare. Hence the preference.

Also, even in Christians and Muslims, lighter skin is associated with Upper caste or middle eastern genes.

 

[Pakistanian]

It's universal. People don't realize how pervasive colorism is in almost every culture in the world.

 

[mustang]

preference for lighter skinned is in all non european socities to certain extent , reason is that europeans have defined the modern world and they are lightest people in the world, but in Pakistan its less obvious since country is reletively homogenous than india and there are less variation across cast/social class lines as you see in india. Though personally from my experience rural people through out pakistan from punjab/kpk/sindh/balochistan/gilgit etc very proud and dont overwhelm by western norms. As for pakistanis taking pride in being lighter than indian , never seen this among mature paks , since we overselves are so diverse and come in different shades. Immature people exist everywhere.

Interesting points (and lot of this is new information for me). So true about Europeans influence in our perception of things in the modern world. I see this among latin communities all the time. Go anywhere in central/south America and you will see an extent of this (definitely not to the extremes as in South Asia though).

The bolded part of your quoted post - interesting that there is less emphasis on skin color in Pakistan relative to India. So fair is generally not considered more beautiful in Pakistan? Does Pakistan movie industry have as many darker complexioned (darker relative to skin tones in Pakistan) leads as lighter complexioned ones reflective of the real demographics? This is surely not the case in India from my observation - the average Bollywood guy/gal has quite a few layers of melanin peeled off of him/her compared to an average Indian guy/gal.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

Interesting points (and lot of this is new information for me). So true about Europeans influence in our perception of things in the modern world. I see this among latin communities all the time. Go anywhere in central/south America and you will see an extent of this (definitely not to the extremes as in South Asia though).

The bolded part of your quoted post - interesting that there is less emphasis on skin color in Pakistan relative to India. So fair is generally not considered more beautiful in Pakistan? Does Pakistan movie industry have as many darker complexioned (darker relative to skin tones in Pakistan) leads as lighter complexioned ones reflective of the real demographics? This is surely not the case in India from my observation - the average Bollywood guy/gal has quite a few layers of melanin peeled off of him/her compared to an average Indian guy/gal.

For females fair is considered more beautiful in Pakistan. One can argue its worse than in India, as in India the light skin population is limited. In Pakistan the percentage of lighter skin people is much larger, so men have more options, and it has a huge effect on the self esteem of girls who have a darker shade.

and almost all Pakistani models, actresses, are light skin, so that has an effect also. I would say maybe 5 -10 % of the population has the same shade of skin as Bollywood actors, in Pakistan i would say maybe 33% has of the population has the same shade as Pakistani actors.

 

[PakLFC]

We all know of India's massive western complex. Anything western is good and "Indian" is bad. The more westernised you appear the more intelligent you are seen as. They even try to out do the west these days so to be soon as progressive. Soon Modi will try torn jeans and a stud in his ear as well They have no confidence in their own culture, here I agree with the RSS.
https://medium.com/@rahulyadavca/why-do-indians-have-an-inferiority-complex-820d09c9c3fb

 

[amax]

Interesting points (and lot of this is new information for me). So true about Europeans influence in our perception of things in the modern world. I see this among latin communities all the time. Go anywhere in central/south America and you will see an extent of this (definitely not to the extremes as in South Asia though).

The bolded part of your quoted post - interesting that there is less emphasis on skin color in Pakistan relative to India. So fair is generally not considered more beautiful in Pakistan? Does Pakistan movie industry have as many darker complexioned (darker relative to skin tones in Pakistan) leads as lighter complexioned ones reflective of the real demographics? This is surely not the case in India from my observation - the average Bollywood guy/gal has quite a few layers of melanin peeled off of him/her compared to an average Indian guy/gal.

TBh i dont know how to measure relative obscession of fair skin in pakistan with india . India is much bigger than Pakistan so every phenomena will be much bigger , also pakistan doesnt have complex diversity of India in that proportion.
Pakistan is also 70% percent rural so I was giving there point of view , e.g people still wear traditional dresses in pakistan compare to other countries of South Asia and middle east.
As for celebs i would say models tend to be darker than actresses , but ultimately all fit the diversity of pakistanis.

Also south asia is lot more complex region than other parts of world , one its poverty level are unique and touch sab saharan level and other racial admix is unique compared to say europe (where diversity is limited, so you have reletively homogenous population), but with better living standards and grooming facilities difference beteween indian celebs and common people will decrease , obviously they will look still above average but at the same time they will not look that dfferent to how many indians look.

 

[transparent opacity]

Rajasthan BJP Chief Apologises For His "Dark-Skinned Bride" Remark

The remarks drew strong criticism with the ruling Congress targeting him for using such a language against women.

Jaipur: Rajasthan BJP president Satish Poonia on Thursday apologized for his controversial remark comparing the state budget with a dark-complexioned bride after getting a makeover.
Talking to reporters after Chief Minister Ashok Gehlot presented the Budget for the year 2022-23 on Wednesday, Mr Poonia had said, "It seems to be a 'daubed up' budget. It seems like a dark-complexioned bride has been taken to a beauty parlour and presented after a good makeup.” The remarks drew strong criticism with the ruling Congress targeting him for using such a language against women.

"I was giving reaction to the budget during which I spontaneously spoke a few words. Usually, I do not use such words. If my words have hurt someone's sentiments, then I humbly apologize," he said in a video statement.

PCC chief Govind Singh Dotasra, Chairperson of Rajasthan Commission for Women Rehana Rayaz, and others had condemned Mr Poonia's statement.

https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/raj...ide-remark-2786395#pfrom=home-ndtv_topstories

 

[Lego20]

I am an Indian male and have wheatish complexion myself. I find fair/white complexion more attractive and pretty especially when it comes to women. Dont care if people think I am racist. Everyone should be entitled to have their own preference.