Is 2-0 to England a formality?

[Ab Fan]

Younis had nothing to do with the series being active heading into the fourth Test. Pakistan could easily have been 3-0 down at that point, because Younis had zero contribution to the wins at Lord's and Edgbaston. He did not fail in the first three Tests because he knew that he would score a match-winning double-hundred in the fourth Test.

If it was a three match series, his double-hundred would not have come in the third Test; if it was a two match series, his double-hundred would not have come in the second Test.

Similarly, had the other England players should up, Cook's double-hundred at Melbourne could have come in a situation where England were only one Test down or level with Australia. However, unlike Younis, he did not have the luxury of his teammates carrying him to wins in the other matches.

It is not about Australian letting him score if the series was alive etc., players of the calibre and experience of Cook and Younis will eventually score big after failing for a few games. Players like them know how to make it count when things go their way after a string of low scores.

In Melbourne, Cook was helped by the absence of Starc, who had troubled him considerably in the series. He was able to get into his grove and capitalized. At the Oval, Younis was helped by the fact that he got to face Moeen early in his innings, allowing him to settle at the crease - a set Younis is as dangerous as any batsman.

<B>It was Younis' good fortune that the series was alive going into the fourth Tests,</B>because considering how pathetic he was, he fully deserved to have lost all three games at an individual level. Pakistan were playing with ten men.

Had the other players not showed up, his Oval knock would have been a dead rubber effort like his Sydney 170 and Cook's Melbourne 244.

He flopped in that series because failing completely for the first three Tests in a four match series is not acceptable, and that is why Misbah won the MoS Award for Pakistan. His hundred on the opening day at Lord's set the tone of the series, and showed that Pakistan were up for the challenge.

It was by far the most important knock of the series, especially when Pakistan were struggling at 70/3 when he arrived at the crease. Without his innings, we could have been all out for 200 and the complexion of the series would have been completely different. Although he tailed off after that game, he left a bigger impression on the series than Younis.

Just like MS Dhoni after failing in all the games played a great knock in WC final when it mattered the most, in a same way YK failing in all the matches still played a great knock in Oval and drew the series with a magnificent knock.

Fact is the bigger player(YK) stood up when the series was alive and made it count while the other could only woke up after the series was already done.

It doesn't matter if your batting technique is like Steven Smith or a AB de Villiers, at the end of the day runs matter and if they come when it mattered the most and when the heat was on, it becomes a great great knock, particularly the one in a winning cause.

 

[Mamoon]

Just like MS Dhoni after failing in all the games played a great knock in WC final when it mattered the most, in a same way YK failing in all the matches still played a great knock in Oval and drew the series with a magnificent knock.

Fact is the bigger player(YK) stood up when the series was alive and made it count while the other could only woke up after the series was already done.

It doesn't matter if your batting technique is like Steven Smith or a AB de Villiers, at the end of the day runs matter and if they come when it mattered the most and when the heat was on, it becomes a great great knock, particularly the one in a winning cause.

You cannot compare a World Cup final to the final Test match of a random series where the best you can do is to draw the series. And besides, Gambhir was the real Man of the Match of the World Cup final. Dhoni was magnificent, but Gambhir played the more crucial innings. When Dhoni came to the crease, India were already cruising, but he completely took SL out of the game.

Dhoni has received a lot of plaudits for his World Cup final performance because he was in terrible form throughout the tournament and still decided to take the burden of finishing the game on his shoulders, knowing well that had he failed, he would have been criticized to no ends.

We will have to agree to disagree on this, but I am not prepared to give Younis credit for the fact that his teammates kept the series alive till the fourth Test. As I said, he had zero contribution in the Lord's win, so I am not going to praise him for standing up when the series was alive. He was simply lucky that the series was alive, because no player deserved to be on the losing side more than him after the three Tests.

 

[Mamoon]

I asked you a simple question. I have my own views on cricket as I;'ve probably watched much more than you and played more than you.

You said Pakistan were lucky to find themselves in such conditions which saw them win two tests. If India find similar conditions and win two tests will they also be lucky? Your team India is scared to play Pakistan so we dont know who is the better team, India being better is simply your opinion.

Yes India is scared of facing a team that got owned by SL in the UAE, and if we talk about our pre 2017 team, the only good Asian team that we played was SL, and those series were competitive. In fact, they came within a whisker of ending our so-called unbeaten run in the UAE in 2013.

India is a much better team than SL, and in fact it was our good fortune that they refused to play in the UAE. The 'fortress' would probably have been breached years ago. India wipes the floor with Pakistan in all three formats and have done so for many, man years.

As far as your question is concerned, yes India would be lucky if they get flat pitches in the late summer, which they probably will. On traditional English wickets, England would probably beat them. However, not only did we get lucky with the conditions, we also got lucky with injuries to a couple of their key players. Let's see if India get as lucky as we did.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Yes India is scared of facing a team that got owned by SL in the UAE, and if we talk about our pre 2017 team, the only good Asian team that we played was SL, and those series were competitive. In fact, they came within a whisker of ending our so-called unbeaten run in the UAE in 2013.

India is a much better team than SL, and in fact it was our good fortune that they refused to play in the UAE. The 'fortress' would probably have been breached years ago. India wipes the floor with Pakistan in all three formats and have done so for many, man years.

As far as your question is concerned, yes India would be lucky if they get flat pitches in the late summer, which they probably will. On traditional English wickets, England would probably beat them. However, not only did we get lucky with the conditions, we also got lucky with injuries to a couple of their key players. Let's see if India get as lucky as we did.

Perhaps you are unaware but Indian pitches are not the same as those in the UAE. Indian rely upon rank turners to beat the opposition. What happened between Sri Lanka has little relevance when it comes to comparing Pakistan and India.

India with it's greats lost 5-0 in England, conditions weren't too bad for India either. England are weaker than they were against Pakistan, in poor form. If what you say about India is true, they should win 5-0 . Are you confident they will whitewash England?

 

[Rishta Aunty]

I don't think so at all. England really aren't a great side. Root is their only gun batsman, though I rate Bairstow. There are question marks over Cook, and pretty much every one else in that batting line up. It comes down to which Anderson turns up.

 

[Mamoon]

Perhaps you are unaware but Indian pitches are not the same as those in the UAE. Indian rely upon rank turners to beat the opposition. What happened between Sri Lanka has little relevance when it comes to comparing Pakistan and India.

India with it's greats lost 5-0 in England, conditions weren't too bad for India either. England are weaker than they were against Pakistan, in poor form. If what you say about India is true, they should win 5-0 . Are you confident they will whitewash England?

I assume you are referring to the 2011 series. India lost 4-0, and England, along with South Africa, were the best team in the world at that time, and India had a rut in 2011-2012 because their big stars were past their prime and they had to go through a transition phase, that carried all the way till 2013-2014.

This current Indian team would definitely beat the big name Indian team of 2011, who were mostly playing on their reputation.

What happened between SL and Pakistan is not irrelevant; SL is the only Asian side that have toured the UAE, and they have managed to hold their own. It is pretty obvious that India would have done very well too, considering the fact that they would have been able to nullify our strengths. We could not even beat SA when they came with good players of spin and a good spinner. We have only been able to trash teams with rubbish spinners like Moeen, Craig (although even he took a 7-fer in an innings) and the old version of Lyon, back when he was nothing great.

As far as playing India on rank turners are concerned, our batsmen can barely handle turn on flat pitches. Herath who has been India's whipping boy, has tormented us for years on regular wickets, while Tahir destroyed us in a session in Sharjah, as soon as he got a hint of turn.

Our batsmen would struggle big time against the duo of Ashwin and Jadeja on Indian turners. They would struggle against Yasir too, but their overall spin attack as well as batting unit is better than ours, and Shami is the best Test pacer in Asia. There is no way we can or could have beaten them on rank turners.

If India get flat pitches in England this summer, I would back them to win the series 2-1. Obviously, they cannot beat England 5-0. They are not an invincible team, and England are not great at the moment, but they are no pushovers. They have numerous world class players in their side and if they hit form, they can overcome any team in the world.

However, considering the recent form of both teams as well as their strengths, India definitely hold an edge over England. They should be disappointed if they don't win the series. In fact, even if they draw, they should consider at as an opportunity missed.

As far as the notion that England are weaker now than they were against Pakistan, I don't agree. They are pretty much the same team, but they weren't full-strength against Pakistan. However, this Indian team is better than our 2016 team.

 

[Amjid Javed]

England test sides is pretty mediocre but in saying that they will be the better side in favourable conditions so should beat Pakistan, just like they did beat S.A and W.I at home last year.

 

[the Great Khan]

England test sides is pretty mediocre but in saying that they will be the better side in favourable conditions so should beat Pakistan, just like they did beat S.A and W.I at home last year.

Anderson and broad will bowl well at home, and with wood woakes etc on hand we could be in trouble,..remember woakes gave us mass loads of problems last time..I expect us to fight but ultimately lose...the batting just looks brittle..

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

On paper you would fancy England, they have batsmen and bowlers with much better averages, and the home conditions should suit them. But they are a brittle team just like Pakistan, if one or two Pakistan players click then it could easily go the other way. I don't know which former player said Pakistan have picked a bunch of ODI players for the test matches, but he's probably right. Although I don't know that it will be a disadvantage as such, the specialist test players are just as liable to fail. It might come down to who performs on the day, and the limited over guys are just as likely to be honest.

 

[Markhor]

Struggling to overcome Ireland doesn't bode well for the series.

 

[The_Odd_One]

I won't be surprised if the series is tied. English team has a history of choking.

 

[ManFan]

Ultimately, the series could very well go 1-1.

Main contest is between bat and ball.

1) English seamers vs. an inexperienced and futile batting line up.

2) Root and Bairstow vs. Pakistani bowlers.

It will not be the top order or the bowlers who win the series but the lower-order.

If Pakistan plays two all-rounders in Shadab and Fahim, they certainly have a greater chance of victory.

 

[Greenstorm]

I can see us winning atleast one test against England. Our players have ability, they just have to prove themselves.

 

[babajee]

Well..........

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

Not looking like a formality. It's a shame that this is only a 2 test match series.

 

[Bleedgreen4ever]

Kudos to this young Pakistan team


Playing much much better than many other Pakistan teams of the last two decades.

 

[The_Odd_One]

Yes, it does appear to be a foregone conclusion. We got lucky in 2016 because we played on grassless wickets. Moreover, Stokes only played 1 Test, and Anderson was not fully fit. I don't recall the list time a touring team had such easy conditions in England.

That was a series that we should have won, but we crumbled under pressure (as usual) in Edgbaston.

Our Test team is pretty rubbish. Not a single world class batsman that can be viewed as a threat by the opposition, and the bowling attack looks pretty humbling on paper. People like to sing songs about Azhar, but the fact is that he is nothing more than a decent batsman.

He has zero impact on the game, his body language and style of play do not make the opposition uneasy, and he is not able to put the bowlers under pressure even if he has been out there for hours because he has zero shots in his arsenal.

He is to the current Test team what Misbah was to the ODI team previously - a deaf king among blind men, and the fact that he is our premier Test batsman at the moment reflects our horrid batting standards.

The only difference between him and duds like Sami, Masood, Shafiq etc. is that he is able to last around a 100 deliveries more on average. You can tie him down on one end and get the others out, and he won't be able to kill a fly.

Pakistan badly needs a couple of batsmen with 50/50 stats, because someone like Azhar - a 45/40 batsman - is not good enough to lead the batting unit. He is a very good support batsman, but you need a lot more from your premier batsman.

As far as the absence of Younis is concerned, as [MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] rightfully pointed out, he came agonizingly close to sinking the ship in 2016 on grassless wickets. In fact, I would argue that he was one of the major reasons why went to the Oval Test 2-1 down, rather than 2-1 up or at worst, 1-1.

One good innings by him at Edgbaston would have ensured a win/draw, but he needed 7 innings on flat wickets to get his act together.

He has always been worthless on green pitches, and his magnificent average of 4 in NZ in 2016 shows his capability on green pitches. If he was still playing, he would have been the biggest bunny of English bowlers on this tour.

Pakistan will need a miracle to salvage anything from this tour. England is not great, but they are comfortably better than Pakistan in these conditions.

What's the excuse this time? Both Anderson and Stokes are on the team and Broad is also in form.

 

[Abdullah719]

What's the excuse this time? Both Anderson and Stokes are on the team and Broad is also in form.

"Worst English Test team"

Spineless performance by England. Poor batting, poor bowling and their shoulders have dropped in the field.

They are not going anywhere in Test cricket, and their Test giants are a dying breed.

It appears that they are directing all their resources to LOI cricket at this point. This is comfortably the worst English Test team I have seen since the late 90’s.

 

[babajee]

"Worst English Test team"

What’s the excuse when India lose to them :

 

[The_Odd_One]

"Worst English Test team"

But they are "comfortably" better in these conditions as per our expert.

 

[bujhee kom]

1-1 or even better?

 

[Ahson8]

Nope, we'll be ready inshaAllah.

Chief for a reason

 

[Hasan Cheema]

hello guys, Formality ?

 

[emm-tee]

I assume you are referring to the 2011 series. India lost 4-0, and England, along with South Africa, were the best team in the world at that time, and India had a rut in 2011-2012 because their big stars were past their prime and they had to go through a transition phase, that carried all the way till 2013-2014.

This current Indian team would definitely beat the big name Indian team of 2011, who were mostly playing on their reputation.

What happened between SL and Pakistan is not irrelevant; SL is the only Asian side that have toured the UAE, and they have managed to hold their own. It is pretty obvious that India would have done very well too, considering the fact that they would have been able to nullify our strengths. We could not even beat SA when they came with good players of spin and a good spinner. We have only been able to trash teams with rubbish spinners like Moeen, Craig (although even he took a 7-fer in an innings) and the old version of Lyon, back when he was nothing great.

As far as playing India on rank turners are concerned, our batsmen can barely handle turn on flat pitches. Herath who has been India's whipping boy, has tormented us for years on regular wickets, while Tahir destroyed us in a session in Sharjah, as soon as he got a hint of turn.

Our batsmen would struggle big time against the duo of Ashwin and Jadeja on Indian turners. They would struggle against Yasir too, but their overall spin attack as well as batting unit is better than ours, and Shami is the best Test pacer in Asia. There is no way we can or could have beaten them on rank turners.

If India get flat pitches in England this summer, I would back them to win the series 2-1. Obviously, they cannot beat England 5-0. They are not an invincible team, and England are not great at the moment, but they are no pushovers. They have numerous world class players in their side and if they hit form, they can overcome any team in the world.

However, considering the recent form of both teams as well as their strengths, India definitely hold an edge over England. They should be disappointed if they don't win the series. In fact, even if they draw, they should consider at as an opportunity missed.

As far as the notion that England are weaker now than they were against Pakistan, I don't agree. They are pretty much the same team, but they weren't full-strength against Pakistan. However, this Indian team is better than our 2016 team.

Been following your *supportive* posts towards Pak.
Maybe try supporting the young guns of your own country once in a while. At least we can finally put this CT win to bed by saying it was not a fluke if they were able to replicate, if not better their performances.

What's the excuse now? England is not a good team anymore? When we do well, others are no good. When others do good, we are crap.
We basically can't be a good team, ever.
Got it.

 

[Usman Chadda]

Not ashamed to admit, but I wasn't expecting such a performance from Pakistan. Just absolute domination.

 

[SM1989]

It will end 1-1

 

[Markhor]

Let's be honest we played poorly against Ireland so any pessimism was understandable.

Not even the most optimistic of fans could've predicted such a comprehensive victory where we won 9 sessions out of 10 against England.

 

[fawad_wellwisher]

Let's be honest we played poorly against Ireland so any pessimism was understandable.

Not even the most optimistic of fans could've predicted such a comprehensive victory where we won 9 sessions out of 10 against England.

In Ireland they were still getting used to the conditions. It is no secret Pakistani batsmen struggle in seaming/swinging conditions and it takes them more time to acclimatize to the conditions.

But the main reason is the bowlers and how disciplined they were in bowling the right lengths rather than doing their own thing. I think this is the most coachable Pakistan team I have seen for a long time.

 

[Bleedgreen4ever]

Yes, it does appear to be a foregone conclusion. We got lucky in 2016 because we played on grassless wickets. Moreover, Stokes only played 1 Test, and Anderson was not fully fit. I don't recall the list time a touring team had such easy conditions in England.

That was a series that we should have won, but we crumbled under pressure (as usual) in Edgbaston.

Our Test team is pretty rubbish. Not a single world class batsman that can be viewed as a threat by the opposition, and the bowling attack looks pretty humbling on paper. People like to sing songs about Azhar, but the fact is that he is nothing more than a decent batsman.

He has zero impact on the game, his body language and style of play do not make the opposition uneasy, and he is not able to put the bowlers under pressure even if he has been out there for hours because he has zero shots in his arsenal.

He is to the current Test team what Misbah was to the ODI team previously - a deaf king among blind men, and the fact that he is our premier Test batsman at the moment reflects our horrid batting standards.

The only difference between him and duds like Sami, Masood, Shafiq etc. is that he is able to last around a 100 deliveries more on average. You can tie him down on one end and get the others out, and he won't be able to kill a fly.

Pakistan badly needs a couple of batsmen with 50/50 stats, because someone like Azhar - a 45/40 batsman - is not good enough to lead the batting unit. He is a very good support batsman, but you need a lot more from your premier batsman.

As far as the absence of Younis is concerned, as [MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] rightfully pointed out, he came agonizingly close to sinking the ship in 2016 on grassless wickets. In fact, I would argue that he was one of the major reasons why went to the Oval Test 2-1 down, rather than 2-1 up or at worst, 1-1.

One good innings by him at Edgbaston would have ensured a win/draw, but he needed 7 innings on flat wickets to get his act together.

He has always been worthless on green pitches, and his magnificent average of 4 in NZ in 2016 shows his capability on green pitches. If he was still playing, he would have been the biggest bunny of English bowlers on this tour.

Pakistan will need a miracle to salvage anything from this tour. England is not great, but they are comfortably better than Pakistan in these conditions.

Pakistan will need a miracle eh?

 

[ArsenalFC]

Pakistan have proved me wrong and I couldn't be happier. Win or draw Pakistan have surpassed general expectations following the horror show against SL in the UAE.

 

[Abdullah]

I'm backing the bowlers to run through England at least a couple of times,
Hopefully it happens in the same game.

Just want to see some fight. We shouldn't expect too much nut I'm going 1-1

We could lose to Ireland though as that game is too early into the tour

Series starts now for me.

 

[in_cutter]

Wrist slitting thread.

Not surprised that Pak have won a London Test match.

 

[shaz619]

The manner of victory was definitely not expected but many people were writing of Pakistan prematurely, it wasn't as if our preparations were not adequate. Performances during sparring are not exactly a premonition of what was to come, they are designed to improve your performance in all facets come fight night. Besides that, people judged those performances out of context anyway. At the very least I expected us to win a Test and we've done that, if they manage to win the series from here it would be a huge bonus for me. England will now go a decade without beating Pakistan in a Test Series

 

[Chief Destroyer]

No match winners, they said.

 

[Rana]

Well we can't lose an away series to England once again lol

 

[The Googly]

I confidently predict we won't lose this series

 

[SarfiBabarHaris]

Pakistan have proved me wrong and I couldn't be happier.

You are a good poster who speaks his mind but I have seen you had no expectations from this side? Dont mind telling why? We cant compare this series with the one against SL, we made some tactical mistakes there plus didn't have any biggie wc player against spin like Younis.

Also, I understand we have been mediocre overseas but bright times are ahead now. Historically our batting has struggled against pace bowling but now we have some very good technical batsmen of pace bowling in the squad plus a bowler like Abbas who is ideal for Eng, NZ, SA conditions.

I remember last year when we won CT that there was a discussion on upcoming test tours where I said we will struggle in Asia in start but do well overseas largely due to not having wc batsman like Younis against spin and not developing a quality 2nd spinner. Still think kind of the same. Need to look on these things asap. One of Haris, Usman, or Babar has to step up in Asia and start scoring big hundreds. Don't have much hope from Shafiq. Btw What do you make of our test side now? and in Asia too?

 

[Greenstorm]

You are a good poster who speaks his mind but I have seen you had no expectations from this side? Dont mind telling why? We cant compare this series with the one against SL, we made some tactical mistakes there plus didn't have any biggie wc player against spin like Younis.

Also, I understand we have been mediocre overseas but bright times are ahead now. Historically our batting has struggled against pace bowling but now we have some very good technical batsmen of pace bowling in the squad plus a bowler like Abbas who is ideal for Eng, NZ, SA conditions.

I remember last year when we won CT that there was a discussion on upcoming test tours where I said we will struggle in Asia in start but do well overseas largely due to not having wc batsman like Younis against spin and not developing a quality 2nd spinner. Still think kind of the same. Need to look on these things asap. One of Haris, Usman, or Babar has to step up in Asia and start scoring big hundreds. Don't have much hope from Shafiq. Btw What do you make of our test side now? and in Asia too?

It is interesting that we have batsmen now who are good against fast bowlers, are technically correct and are suitable for overseas tours but they might struggle against spin in UAE. I think we have two options now in test cricket.

1. Either move away from UAE to SA or NZ if we can, to play our home test matches there.
2. Or if we are to play in UAE then go with superior batsmen against spin like Fawad Alam or Saud Shakeel etc.

 

[ArsenalFC]

You are a good poster who speaks his mind but I have seen you had no expectations from this side? Dont mind telling why? We cant compare this series with the one against SL, we made some tactical mistakes there plus didn't have any biggie wc player against spin like Younis.

Also, I understand we have been mediocre overseas but bright times are ahead now. Historically our batting has struggled against pace bowling but now we have some very good technical batsmen of pace bowling in the squad plus a bowler like Abbas who is ideal for Eng, NZ, SA conditions.

I remember last year when we won CT that there was a discussion on upcoming test tours where I said we will struggle in Asia in start but do well overseas largely due to not having wc batsman like Younis against spin and not developing a quality 2nd spinner. Still think kind of the same. Need to look on these things asap. One of Haris, Usman, or Babar has to step up in Asia and start scoring big hundreds. Don't have much hope from Shafiq. Btw What do you make of our test side now? and in Asia too?

Thank you for the kind words and it's to no surprise to see another good post by a quality poster.

You're absolutely correct when you mention tactical mistakes in SL - with the most prominent being the use of just one front line spinner and although this blunder has no relation to the bowling composition required in England, the batting previously as a whole just didn't inspire any confidence concerning score big runs even on a flat wicket because of the inexperience and steady nature of these batsmen. The Ireland game only reinforced my concerns about how this team would deal with England's swing and seam at their backyard during the toughest time of the year to play them as it is now, but against all odds pulled off a remarkable win.

There is certainly is the possibility with the absence of an ATG player against spin (i.e. YK) that Pakistan batting may perform more promisingly outside Asia or it could just be they'll struggle in Asia against Asian sides as not only do our Asian neighbours posses decent spinners but also better batsmen against the slower bowlers. However, I think a couple of tweaks can fix this:

1. Play a second front line spinner - ideally a left armer to add variety to the spin attack. Yasir and Shadab bowling together doesn't enhance the spin attack any further from just solely picking Yasir.

2. Addition of Fakhar Zaman in the batting line up - since he is arguably the best player of spin in the country along with his confidence to hit big is what is needed to dent the spinner's confidence and change the momentum of the innings. A brisk hundred at a SR of 70+ could be the difference between winning and getting a draw on the deadest of wickets in UAE if it doesn't deteriorate significantly.

The retirements of Younis Khan and Misbah has given Pakistan better players of pace in the side and it has been a breath of fresh air to see the likes of Babar Azam score important runs. I didn't have much hope in him with the technical deficiencies I have seen of him in the past. Putting his inabilities to play spin a side, I continue to have reservations with the way he plays the short ball aimed at him as he seems to have the tendency to take his eye off it (as evident from the Stokes delivery that injured him). However his footwork + transfer of weight has improved vastly and is in good stead to kick on. I should also add he plays the cut shot really well. Him and Haris just need tons for them to feel less nervous and realise they belong at this level.

I share the same concerns for Shafiq because his capacity is limited to one ton per series averaging 40. Averaging 39 after 60 tests with half of those games in UAE is below par at test level. Mamoon summed him up perfectly when he mentioned he's one of those who's hard to drop and keep in the side but you end up doing the latter because of the lack of batting reserves to compete with him. I think after the South Africa tour, Pakistan should look to replace him because lets face it he's not going to get any better at 32/33 years of age.

Test side looks overall more promising outside Asia but we are yet to see any these batsmen (except Azhar Ali) capable of scoring big tons (i.e. 150+ scores) on pacy batting friendly tracks outside Asia and are capable of absorbing pressure to save a test match like as we saw several times in NZ and Aus. Younis Khan's hunger for runs will be missed because he could score 150+ in any country whether it be a quick or slow wicket as long it was true batting surface. I don't see anyone at this stage being able to do that and even with Azhar Ali he bats too slow to be the enforcer.

One could also argue on the other hand Pakistan aren't truly batting in alien conditions in England as the domestic pitches are usually damp green tops these days. South Africa will be a tougher test since you could argue they have the best pace attack at present. But without AB de Villiers Pakistan has an outside chance of accomplishing itself as the first Asian side to win overseas there.

In Asia it can be fixed as long as Mickey and Sarfraz learn their lesson. I'm definitely more optimistic with them at the helm knowing that Pakistan has moved on from their passive, shallow and ultra defensive mindset with a preference for seniors in the XI and having them bat in the top order.

 

[SarfiBabarHaris]

Thank you for the kind words and it's to no surprise to see another good post by a quality poster.

You're absolutely correct when you mention tactical mistakes in SL - with the most prominent being the use of just one front line spinner and although this blunder has no relation to the bowling composition required in England, the batting previously as a whole just didn't inspire any confidence concerning score big runs even on a flat wicket because of the inexperience and steady nature of these batsmen. The Ireland game only reinforced my concerns about how this team would deal with England's swing and seam at their backyard during the toughest time of the year to play them as it is now, but against all odds pulled off a remarkable win.

There is certainly is the possibility with the absence of an ATG player against spin (i.e. YK) that Pakistan batting may perform more promisingly outside Asia or it could just be they'll struggle in Asia against Asian sides as not only do our Asian neighbours posses decent spinners but also better batsmen against the slower bowlers. However, I think a couple of tweaks can fix this:

1. Play a second front line spinner - ideally a left armer to add variety to the spin attack. Yasir and Shadab bowling together doesn't enhance the spin attack any further from just solely picking Yasir.

2. Addition of Fakhar Zaman in the batting line up - since he is arguably the best player of spin in the country along with his confidence to hit big is what is needed to dent the spinner's confidence and change the momentum of the innings. A brisk hundred at a SR of 70+ could be the difference between winning and getting a draw on the deadest of wickets in UAE if it doesn't deteriorate significantly.

The retirements of Younis Khan and Misbah has given Pakistan better players of pace in the side and it has been a breath of fresh air to see the likes of Babar Azam score important runs. I didn't have much hope in him with the technical deficiencies I have seen of him in the past. Putting his inabilities to play spin a side, I continue to have reservations with the way he plays the short ball aimed at him as he seems to have the tendency to take his eye off it (as evident from the Stokes delivery that injured him). However his footwork + transfer of weight has improved vastly and is in good stead to kick on. I should also add he plays the cut shot really well. Him and Haris just need tons for them to feel less nervous and realise they belong at this level.

I share the same concerns for Shafiq because his capacity is limited to one ton per series averaging 40. Averaging 39 after 60 tests with half of those games in UAE is below par at test level. Mamoon summed him up perfectly when he mentioned he's one of those who's hard to drop and keep in the side but you end up doing the latter because of the lack of batting reserves to compete with him. I think after the South Africa tour, Pakistan should look to replace him because lets face it he's not going to get any better at 32/33 years of age.

Test side looks overall more promising outside Asia but we are yet to see any these batsmen (except Azhar Ali) capable of scoring big tons (i.e. 150+ scores) on pacy batting friendly tracks outside Asia and are capable of absorbing pressure to save a test match like as we saw several times in NZ and Aus. Younis Khan's hunger for runs will be missed because he could score 150+ in any country whether it be a quick or slow wicket as long it was true batting surface. I don't see anyone at this stage being able to do that and even with Azhar Ali he bats too slow to be the enforcer.

One could also argue on the other hand Pakistan aren't truly batting in alien conditions in England as the domestic pitches are usually damp green tops these days. South Africa will be a tougher test since you could argue they have the best pace attack at present. But without AB de Villiers Pakistan has an outside chance of accomplishing itself as the first Asian side to win overseas there.

In Asia it can be fixed as long as Mickey and Sarfraz learn their lesson. I'm definitely more optimistic with them at the helm knowing that Pakistan has moved on from their passive, shallow and ultra defensive mindset with a preference for seniors in the XI and having them bat in the top order.

Some v.good points. Thanks bro.
Han Fakhar par I am also inclined to give him a go in Asia but imo first we need to see how good is his defensive technique against spinners on turners. Honestly, haven't followed him domestically that much and internationals mai turners pr abhi sahi test hua nahi uska. If his defensive technique against spin is good then get him in, as you said his brisk 100 at 70+ will change the momentum and dent the confidence of opposition spinners.

 

[SarfiBabarHaris]

It is interesting that we have batsmen now who are good against fast bowlers, are technically correct and are suitable for overseas tours but they might struggle against spin in UAE. I think we have two options now in test cricket.

1. Either move away from UAE to SA or NZ if we can, to play our home test matches there.
2. Or if we are to play in UAE then go with superior batsmen against spin like Fawad Alam or Saud Shakeel etc.

Han yar although I am not a fan of Fawad but i can't deny that he is one of the best in Pakistan playing spinners and can score big especially for test matches where SR isn't a big problem too. Saud is pretty good against spin too.

Lets hope test matches return to Pakistan soon

 

[nam]

always a treat to read these threads afterwards

 

[hadi123]

So 1-1 it finishes.

 

[Greenstorm]

I can see us winning atleast one test against England. Our players have ability, they just have to prove themselves.

 

[Mp812]

I asked you a simple question. I have my own views on cricket as I;'ve probably watched much more than you and played more than you.

You said Pakistan were lucky to find themselves in such conditions which saw them win two tests. If India find similar conditions and win two tests will they also be lucky? Your team India is scared to play Pakistan so we dont know who is the better team, India being better is simply your opinion.

and Spiderman was also spotted swinging from one New York high rise to other