What's new

Is Azhar Ali a Pakistani great already?

Is Azhar Ali a Pakistani great already?


  • Total voters
    28

ahmedwaqas92

ODI Debutant
Joined
Dec 26, 2013
Runs
10,582
Post of the Week
4
For a guy who started out a Leg spinner batting at No 10 in his fist class lineup, Azhar has surely achieved almost dream like statistics playing at the highest level and that too as a Top order batsmen / opener.

For me he is already a Pakistani great with a ton and a double ton in England and Australia respectively. Plus his overall numbers are extremely decent as well.

AA.jpg

What do you guys think ? Is he a Pakistani great already, or does he need to score a few more runs to achieve that particular distinction ?

Discuss
 
Still needs to do more but if he continues playing and plays to his potential than he can be a Pakistani great for sure but Inshallah he will get there.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Still needs to do more but if he continues playing and plays to his potential than he can be a Pakistani great for sure but inchAllah he will get their

So you do not believe he's a Pakistani great already ?? I mean the guy has a triple hundred as well and has scored everywhere overseas barring SA and NZ.....

13 centuries with 26 50s is extremely impressive for someone who started his career as a bowler. Can you explain what more he needs to do to get that Pakistani Great Tag ??
 
One or two more years of such performance and he will well and truly be a Pakistani great.


It is surprising to see that just a couple years back Azhar was on the verge of being dropped while Shafiq was the one who seemed to be the better prospect.
 
One or two more years of such performance and he will well and truly be a Pakistani great.


It is surprising to see that just a couple years back Azhar was on the verge of being dropped while Shafiq was the one who seemed to be the better prospect.

btw he was dropped.....for....wait for it.....The national treasure known as Mohammad 'Professor' Hafeez :danish

Then Hafeez, as usual, was made to look like a proper tailender by Sri Lankan bowlers in UAE (of all places) and Azhar had a comeback match in which he scored that Amazing Sharjah 100 to chase down 300 in two session.

Lad's never looked back ever since and gone from strength to strength with each passing series. His real break through came during that 2014 Aus tour of UAE though, but to be fair everyone feasted in that series. Heck the lowest High score from our batsmen from 1-7 was 87 by Tendulkar Shafiq :))
 
The guy's officially 32 and if he keeps his fitness can play until 38-39 without any problems. That's a good 6-7 years from right now and with the pace at which he's scoring 100s I won't be surprised if he's would be almost neck and neck with Yk's record.

He already has 13 tons and has a 46.xx average after going through an overseas cycle as well. Mighty impressive I must say.
 
He is already the 2nd best test opener Pakistan has ever produced. The bar is really not that high when it comes to batsmanship in Pakistan.

Azhar has already surpassed the likes of Misbah, Yousuf, Ijazz, and Malik. At this stage he is below Younis, Inzy, Miandad, and Anwar.

Considering he has almost always batted in top 3, his average of 46 is as good as a 50+ average of a middle order batsman.
 
He is already the 2nd best test opener Pakistan has ever produced. The bar is really not that high when it comes to batsmanship in Pakistan.

Azhar has already surpassed the likes of Misbah, Yousuf, Ijazz, and Malik. At this stage he is below Younis, Inzy, Miandad, and Anwar.

Considering he has almost always batted in top 3, his average of 46 is as good as a 50+ average of a middle order batsman.

I'd say he's still behind Hanif for the 2nd best opener spot, but yea it's been amazing to see his growth over the last couple years.
 
He is already the 2nd best test opener Pakistan has ever produced. The bar is really not that high when it comes to batsmanship in Pakistan.

Azhar has already surpassed the likes of Misbah, Yousuf, Ijazz, and Malik. At this stage he is below Younis, Inzy, Miandad, and Anwar.

Considering he has almost always batted in top 3, his average of 46 is as good as a 50+ average of a middle order batsman.

He is better than Anwar already but behind Hanif as Pak's 2nd greatest opener.
 
The guy's officially 32 and if he keeps his fitness can play until 38-39 without any problems. That's a good 6-7 years from right now and with the pace at which he's scoring 100s I won't be surprised if he's would be almost neck and neck with Yk's record.

He already has 13 tons and has a 46.xx average after going through an overseas cycle as well. Mighty impressive I must say.

His record is actualy even more impressive he has 14 Tons has 4965 runs at 47.28 after the innings he played in this test.

For me he is certainly a Pakistani great, I mean he has scored heavily in Asia done fairly well in all countries outside Asia barring SA as well. I mean how many Pakistani batsman can say the FEASTED on Australia IN Australia

Certainly A Pakistani Great in my books. He is gonna be one of Pakistan's top 4 run getters by the time he is done for sure.
 
I'd say he's still behind Hanif for the 2nd best opener spot, but yea it's been amazing to see his growth over the last couple years.

He is better than Anwar already but behind Hanif as Pak's 2nd greatest opener.

Here are Saeed Anwar's Stats

SA.jpg

In terms of statistics I'd say they are neck and neck as of right now, Azhar will probably surpass him in the coming season. However, what's interesting to see is the difference in SR between Azhar and Anwar, it's almost 15 points in favor of Anwar which makes it a colossal factor considering Anwar played in an era where a 55 SR in tests was considered rapid.

Azhar will probably win in terms of longevity
 
His record is actualy even more impressive he has 14 Tons has 4965 runs at 47.28 after the innings he played in this test.

For me he is certainly a Pakistani great, I mean he has scored heavily in Asia done fairly well in all countries outside Asia barring SA as well. I mean how many Pakistani batsman can say the FEASTED on Australia IN Australia

Certainly A Pakistani Great in my books. He is gonna be one of Pakistan's top 4 run getters by the time he is done for sure.

I share similar sentiments as if you look at Anwar's record then those are extremely similar to Azhar's and unanimously Anwar is considered a Pakistani great without any shadow of a doubt (both by fans and experts) alike.

The only real difference both batsmen have is the SR (which in Anwar's case) puts him, at the moment, above of Azhar. It's a 15 point difference between the two and for those who've seen Anwar play will testify that he was much more easy on the eyes as compared to Azhar.
 
I share similar sentiments as if you look at Anwar's record then those are extremely similar to Azhar's and unanimously Anwar is considered a Pakistani great without any shadow of a doubt (both by fans and experts) alike.

The only real difference both batsmen have is the SR (which in Anwar's case) puts him, at the moment, above of Azhar. It's a 15 point difference between the two and for those who've seen Anwar play will testify that he was much more easy on the eyes as compared to Azhar.

Haven't seen Anwar ever bat live but I would assume that when it comes to digging deep and grinding out runs Azhar would be better in that scenario.

Although I do agree watching Anwar bat is absolutely amazing. The other day I came across a YouTube video of his where he slammed Sri Lanka for 126 (99) in 1990! The guy had a SR which was insane for his era in both ODI's and Tests.
 
I'd say he's still behind Hanif for the 2nd best opener spot, but yea it's been amazing to see his growth over the last couple years.

I did not mention Hanif because I generally avoid rating players whom I have not watched at all neither live nor on recordings.
 
Not yet. He has to win Pakistan a series or two. Greatness isn't all about statistics and padding up runs.
 
I would say so. His batting has been very critical in Pakistan doing well in UAE and he has also performed abroad and is consistent. Even YK and Misbah have not been as consistent. I will say he will probably end up with very similar stats's to YK.
 
The guy's officially 32 and if he keeps his fitness can play until 38-39 without any problems. That's a good 6-7 years from right now and with the pace at which he's scoring 100s I won't be surprised if he's would be almost neck and neck with Yk's record.

He already has 13 tons and has a 46.xx average after going through an overseas cycle as well. Mighty impressive I must say.

Let's hope not. I want him to retire at peak instead of what Younis did to his career. We don't want liabilities when touring abroad because we have lots of other young, better batsmen coming thru.
 
Statistically, he is borderline already, and if he keeps this up for another 15-20 Tests, he will become one certainly. However, in terms of winning matches for the team, he is not there yet.
 
He is already the 2nd best test opener Pakistan has ever produced. The bar is really not that high when it comes to batsmanship in Pakistan.

Azhar has already surpassed the likes of Misbah, Yousuf, Ijazz, and Malik. At this stage he is below Younis, Inzy, Miandad, and Anwar.

Considering he has almost always batted in top 3, his average of 46 is as good as a 50+ average of a middle order batsman.



That is true for openers/top 3 batsmen who are excellent against spin, but it may not be necessarily true for Azhar. His game against spin is not great, and he is certainly below most of the other successful Pakistani batsmen on this front. Considering his strengths and weaknesses, playing in the top 3 has been very beneficial for him.
 
Statistically, he is borderline already, and if he keeps this up for another 15-20 Tests, he will become one certainly. However, in terms of winning matches for the team, he is not there yet.

Unfortunately he couldn't translate his game to modern ODI's, but that hard work attitude, which I wish was prevalent across the board will make him a Pakistani test great. He is a great person and deserves success. If those with the talent level to be great had his type of work ethic, we could have true world class players (though as noted, we have very few players with even near that talent level).

His 205 in Australia is one of the most brilliant test innings by a Pakistani ever.
 
[/b]

That is true for openers/top 3 batsmen who are excellent against spin, but it may not be necessarily true for Azhar. His game against spin is not great, and he is certainly below most of the other successful Pakistani batsmen on this front. Considering his strengths and weaknesses, playing in the top 3 has been very beneficial for him.

With a weak game against spin, it is amazing that he has done what he has. Obviously it is the hard work, but my goodness me if he had the talent level of say an Umar. We seem to never get that mix of talent, humbleness and hard work, it is always some parts of the whole in the past ten years.

I don't know why we simply cannot get the brains to match skill.
 
Unfortunately he couldn't translate his game to modern ODI's, but that hard work attitude, which I wish was prevalent across the board will make him a Pakistani test great. He is a great person and deserves success. If those with the talent level to be great had his type of work ethic, we could have true world class players (though as noted, we have very few players with even near that talent level).

His 205 in Australia is one of the most brilliant test innings by a Pakistani ever.

True. Much like Younis, he didn't start his career as a prodigy. Most of the people didn't even know before he made his debut in England in 2010, but he is on the verge of forging an outstanding Test career. His temperament is exemplary. It's a shame that those qualities haven't rubbed on Shafiq.
 
With a weak game against spin, it is amazing that he has done what he has. Obviously it is the hard work, but my goodness me if he had the talent level of say an Umar. We seem to never get that mix of talent, humbleness and hard work, it is always some parts of the whole in the past ten years.

I don't know why we simply cannot get the brains to match skill.

Yes it's frustrating isn't it? The best brains don't have the best talent and the best talent don't have the best brains. Babar though seems like one player who has both as well as time on his side. He is already delivering in ODIs, but I think we need to be a bit more patient with him in Tests. Dropping him now will be a terrible idea.
 
Yes it's frustrating isn't it? The best brains don't have the best talent and the best talent don't have the best brains. Babar though seems like one player who has both as well as time on his side. He is already delivering in ODIs, but I think we need to be a bit more patient with him in Tests. Dropping him now will be a terrible idea.

Dropping Babar would be a horrible idea. He was brought in for the first time in the right way, at the right time. Many players have had their slow starts and come good. Sanga and recently Smith come to mind. Over time, I have moved from numbers to really true batting technique and the long term implications of it. Don't get me wrong, there is merit in both, but if you have an on and off game, can play with a straight bat, and can read the ball, that will translate more internationally than a 50 average in List A or First class, and those who do not have those and succeed in international cricket are the exceptions (Dilshan for example).

My fear, as has been my fear with every player coming up, is this superstar mentality without anything/very little to back it up.

If walking down the street and getting recognition means you stop working hard and simply have hubris, then I do not want those players on my team.

Kohli for example usually, not always, points to himself and his flaws and is constantly honing and working on his game. I feel our players do not have that sort of work ethic, and that is a systemic issue. I feel bad for our coach and any blame on him. He does not really have a true free reign to do as he pleases. It is always the board who dictates his teachings, or the players who are rock stars in their minds and do as they please. When you already have a bad lot, and the ones you are forced to pick as they are begrudgingly your best, your hands are tied.

No coach can make talent out of no talent. You can groom that which is already there at the age of 18-19, but you cannot make a nobody a somebody, that again, comes at the grass roots level.

You know better than I obviously (as I am not there) the issues with domestic cricket. Until we fix that, we won't find a diamond in the rough. Cricket in my opinion is dying in Pakistan due to talent simply heading other ways due to nepotism and cronyism. If you are talented, but know chances of making it are slim to none, the best bet is simply head in other directions to make your family have food on the table.

This systemic problem will not go away any time soon and our team is a reflection of our nation. Stubborn, head in the sky, disappointing due to so much promise, and yet always falling flat. The 80s-90s, and this has nothing to do with IK, were the growing period for Pakistan and our cricket flourished in tandem with the nation. It is sad that such a beautiful nation has been put in such a place that people look on it and shudder.

5.jpg

I know I'm having a bit of an aside from the original point of Babar, but I guess I am just sad looking at the state of our nation. It was growing, it is beautiful, and it has so much potential, and yet it is simply seen as a regressing nation that people are to fear going to.
 
True. Much like Younis, he didn't start his career as a prodigy. Most of the people didn't even know before he made his debut in England in 2010, but he is on the verge of forging an outstanding Test career. His temperament is exemplary. It's a shame that those qualities haven't rubbed on Shafiq.

I hope that his mind doesn't warp as Younis did.

I do not think it will, for the most part he has been very humble. I wish he had that natural talent to go along with his work ethic, would be a class player (already will be a Pakistani great as discussed).

That lack of shot making, which many of his contemporaries have, even on the same team, simply cannot be taught. Obviously one can try to train another to go into certain directions, but there is a simply"you either have it, or you don't" that goes into the equation. Unfortunately in this day and age, the few who have it have hubris in their abilities and the work ethic of a sloth.
 
Not yet. He has to win Pakistan a series or two. Greatness isn't all about statistics and padding up runs.

Unlike ODI's, tests are different in terms of having match winning innings. Consistency, and the numbers are the true merit to focus on.

Yes, there are some, but staying at your crease for as long as possible, creating big partnership, scoring big at a decent SR is truly the best one can do.
 
To follow on this question, who would PP'ers prefer walking out in the middle, Saeed Anwar or Azhar Ali? At the moment I'm in the Anwar camp, maybe because of nostalgia or how pristine and classy Anwar looked while batting. However, Azhar is no mug with the bat either and if Pakistan has to bat out a day to save a test then Azhar would be the better option than Anwar.


[MENTION=136079]ahmedwaqas92[/MENTION]
 
Some outlandish statements being made here and I like Azhar.

Azhar is not the player of spin Saleem Malik was, who tackled an ATG in Shane Warne time and again.

Azhar has not surpassed Saeed Anwar either. Anwar was a bigger matchwinner and more impactful, averaging 65 in Tests won compared to Azhar average of 45. There's not many Tests where I can say "Azhar Ali won us that Test match" like Younis Khan did in Pallekele for example.

Saeed Anwar has a better away record against superior attacks, higher 4th innings average, higher average in New Zealand, England, Sri Lanka (when they had their best side with Murali/Vaas etc) and South Africa.

Azhar also needs to improve his 4th innings record where he averages 27. I can only recall one 4th innings knock of substance and that was the ton in the Sharjah chase v SL.

However, his mental toughness and resilience is unlike most Pakistani batsmen I've seen. I don't like the patronising "he's limited in natural talent but a hard worker" compliment - because you don't have the international record Azhar does just by being gritty and solid. He has taken the attack to the likes of Starc and Hazlewood. His straight drives are sublime and technically he is one of the best top order batsmen we've ever had. He's definitely the best player of pace in this current team.

I'm glad he's starting to get the recognition he deserves from fans.
 
If you really think he is only below Hanif, Javed, Younis, Inzi, and Yousuf. Attribute it to our inability to produce great batsmen or anything else, but he is a Pakistani great already. Weird but true!
 
Some outlandish statements being made here and I like Azhar.

Azhar is not the player of spin Saleem Malik was, who tackled an ATG in Shane Warne time and again.

Azhar has not surpassed Saeed Anwar either. Anwar was a bigger matchwinner and more impactful, averaging 65 in Tests won compared to Azhar average of 45. There's not many Tests where I can say "Azhar Ali won us that Test match" like Younis Khan did in Pallekele for example.

Saeed Anwar has a better away record against superior attacks, higher 4th innings average, higher average in New Zealand, England, Sri Lanka (when they had their best side with Murali/Vaas etc) and South Africa.

Azhar also needs to improve his 4th innings record where he averages 27. I can only recall one 4th innings knock of substance and that was the ton in the Sharjah chase v SL.

However, his mental toughness and resilience is unlike most Pakistani batsmen I've seen. I don't like the patronising "he's limited in natural talent but a hard worker" compliment - because you don't have the international record Azhar does just by being gritty and solid. He has taken the attack to the likes of Starc and Hazlewood. His straight drives are sublime and technically he is one of the best top order batsmen we've ever had. He's definitely the best player of pace in this current team.

I'm glad he's starting to get the recognition he deserves from fans.

Does Azhar Ali make your top 10 list of Pakistan's greatest Test batsman? if he does then you cannot deny that he's a Pakistani ATG or on the brink at the very least. And if Azhar Ali does not make your top 10, then I'd like to know the names who are above him.
 
For a guy who started out a Leg spinner batting at No 10 in his fist class lineup, Azhar has surely achieved almost dream like statistics playing at the highest level and that too as a Top order batsmen / opener.

For me he is already a Pakistani great with a ton and a double ton in England and Australia respectively. Plus his overall numbers are extremely decent as well.

View attachment 74010

What do you guys think ? Is he a Pakistani great already, or does he need to score a few more runs to achieve that particular distinction ?

Discuss

I like this thread, very refreshing and thought provoking. Personally I do believe him to be a Pakistani great based on his performances over the past 12 months or so, also; how many Pakistan batsman have outperformed him down under ?
 
He is already the 2nd best test opener Pakistan has ever produced. The bar is really not that high when it comes to batsmanship in Pakistan.

Azhar has already surpassed the likes of Misbah, Yousuf, Ijazz, and Malik. At this stage he is below Younis, Inzy, Miandad, and Anwar.

thats insane, even salim malik is debatable

I find such comparisons are always fraught due to the different eras players played.

There has never been a better time to be a batsmen
 
In discussions and commentary on cricket in Pakistan, talent is a frequently overused term. In Azhar Ali we are reminded of the more durable virtues of diligence and determination. His style of batting might be painstaking, but it is hardly surprising given where he began. Let us not forget that he commenced his first class career batting at 9 and thereafter spent the next few matches at 7 or 8. He slowly worked his way up the order. Early in his international career he had a tour of England which was an unqualified failure, struggling against the moving ball. Yet, six years on, he has shown that he can score runs in England. He showed he could adapt to Australia as well. It is a great story, a reminder of how far hard-work can take you.
 
thats insane, even salim malik is debatable

I find such comparisons are always fraught due to the different eras players played.

There has never been a better time to be a batsmen

Yousuf was a mental midget and a choker. Azhar is much better than him.

If you had to choose one batsman to bat for your life, you surely can't choose Yousuf.
 
He is one of the best I have seen vs lateral movement and facing the new balls out of the players I have seen.
 
Yousuf was a mental midget and a choker. Azhar is much better than him.

If you had to choose one batsman to bat for your life, you surely can't choose Yousuf.

in such a sitution i would chose Steve Waugh over Sachin or Sangakarra, does that mean he is overall a better player then them ?
 
No, I don't see Ali as Pakistani great.
 
So you do not believe he's a Pakistani great already ?? I mean the guy has a triple hundred as well and has scored everywhere overseas barring SA and NZ.....

13 centuries with 26 50s is extremely impressive for someone who started his career as a bowler. Can you explain what more he needs to do to get that Pakistani Great Tag ??

he has achieved alot and i am a big fan fo azhar ali, but to be considered an ATG he does need to achieve more, and with the potential he has i am strong believer he can and will.
 
[/b]

That is true for openers/top 3 batsmen who are excellent against spin, but it may not be necessarily true for Azhar. His game against spin is not great, and he is certainly below most of the other successful Pakistani batsmen on this front. Considering his strengths and weaknesses, playing in the top 3 has been very beneficial for him.

I'd say he's worked on his game against spin during the last couple of years, his sweep shot has developed very nicely. If he manages to improve it more i'd say we'll be able to class him as a good player of spin, and considering his impeccable work ethic, I'm sure he'll do it.
 
Back
Top