-
Contact the PP Team
Is it unfair to other teams that the ICC World Test Championship finals are always held in England?
- Thread starter Rajdeep
- Start date
DeadlyVenom
Senior ODI Player
- Joined
- Jul 17, 2010
- Runs
- 22,975
- Post of the Week
- 1
Yes it is unfair. I think whoever finished first in the table should play the final at their home.
This is a very good and a fair idea.
I think WTC final should be played in the home country of the current Test champions.
2023 should have been played in NZ
2025 should have been in Australia
IPL follow the same method for its final venue selection.
DeadlyVenom
Senior ODI Player
- Joined
- Jul 17, 2010
- Runs
- 22,975
- Post of the Week
- 1
It's different for domestic cricket.
Imagine this time New Zealand and India qualify. Would you be happy playing in Australia.
I think after India loss again you will want another venue change or maybe a format change.
Have NZ ever won anything in Oz (genuine question)??Gabba India v NZ, not sure if hobbits are winning that...
You can't select the venue based on table topper for ongoing cycle bcoz sometime the table topper is not decided just 10 days before the WTC Final. So logistically its impossible to host a game in such quick notice - tickets, pitch, marketing etc.
Therefore I think the best decision is to award the WTC Final to the cricket board that is currently holding that trophy. I have no issue India playing in Australia considering they are the current champions.
Just having everytime in England when Eng never qualifies is unfair.
followed
Tape Ball Captain
- Joined
- Feb 5, 2024
- Runs
- 1,040
England should always host the final.England is the home of cricket and England is best place to watch cricket.
Hopefully they keep hosting the final there and Indians keep crying like always.LOL.
Hopefully they keep hosting the final there and Indians keep crying like always.LOL.
RedwoodOriginal
ODI Debutant
- Joined
- Jul 8, 2018
- Runs
- 11,250
- Post of the Week
- 3
England has the best and most balanced pitches for test cricket. Every WTC final should be in England and at Lord's: the home of cricket.
Just because India lost twice doesn't make it unfair.
Just because India lost twice doesn't make it unfair.
RedwoodOriginal
ODI Debutant
- Joined
- Jul 8, 2018
- Runs
- 11,250
- Post of the Week
- 3
It's funny that we wrote nearly identical comments and at the same time.
RedwoodOriginal
ODI Debutant
- Joined
- Jul 8, 2018
- Runs
- 11,250
- Post of the Week
- 3
New Zealand won their first and only test series in Australia in 1985. Hadlee took 33 wickets across 3 tests. At the Gabba, they ran over Australia by an innings and 41 runs.
RedwoodOriginal
ODI Debutant
- Joined
- Jul 8, 2018
- Runs
- 11,250
- Post of the Week
- 3
The idea that English pitches benefit SENA teams more is a bit of cowardly argument if you genuinely believe you are the best test team in the world and have one of the best pace attacks. England is the one place where there is some balance between bat and ball. Last year it was India and Australia in the final. Last I checked, Australia haven't won an Ashes series in England since 2001. Whereas, India last won in England in 2007.
If you want the conditions to be heavily tilted in your favour then just go ahead and say that.
If you want the conditions to be heavily tilted in your favour then just go ahead and say that.
sweep_shot
Test Star
- Joined
- Mar 30, 2016
- Runs
- 36,384
I don't mind. England have the best venues for cricket.
ICC events in England tend to be appealing and successful.
ICC events in England tend to be appealing and successful.
India also qualified in both WTC finals and the only team to do so...pls don't forget that.
Anyway, this has nothing to do with India. Don't you think every test country should be a given a chance to host it turn by turn like we do for other ICC events?
Are you saying MCG, Bullring, Wankhede or Bridgetown are not good venues for test cricket?
sweep_shot
Test Star
- Joined
- Mar 30, 2016
- Runs
- 36,384
I thought Indians didn't care about WTC. LOL.
Looks like @Rajdeep cares about WTC final and finds it important.
Looks like @Rajdeep cares about WTC final and finds it important.
If BCCI started to use power then no one can stop india to host the WTC final so stop labeling anything about india. Then Pakistan fans will start to cry about BCCI= ICC
OP ask a very good question . WTC final should be hosted in different countries not just one.
Winners of last WTC final should host the next WTC final amd this is right way .
RexRex
First Class Captain
- Joined
- Jun 5, 2009
- Runs
- 5,470
Ofcourse it's unfair .. India would have won both previous WTC finals if it was held in India instead of Lords.
The thing is indian fans don't seem to really care about WTC otherwise they would have made a bigger fuss about it.
The thing is indian fans don't seem to really care about WTC otherwise they would have made a bigger fuss about it.
jnaveen1980
Test Star
- Joined
- Mar 19, 2016
- Runs
- 36,578
Cancel the final. It is nonsense having one off matches in foreign land. Either you have a series or not at all.
Looks like you are running out of argument these days.
Give it another try - Do you think its unfair all WTC finals is hosted in England?
Waiting for a sensible response
Now this point has some merit. However, 1 test match can be squeezed any time of the year
DeadlyVenom
Senior ODI Player
- Joined
- Jul 17, 2010
- Runs
- 22,975
- Post of the Week
- 1
It also has a lot to do with the ICC. The only reason this tournament has a final is because when it was conceived there was a high chance of Indo Pak final. England was thought to be the best place for it.
Unfortunately Pakistan decided to rain on the ICCs parade.
i'm fine with either:
a) keeping it england, it stays consistent, home of cricket, good crowds no matter who plays, good balance between bat and ball, good timing for viewing for europe / asia / na markets.
b) give it to current champion to host but risk ending up in any market
would not recommend fixing it to other places like a world cup etc.
only other change i would make is to make it a 6 day test or a 5.5 day test, or extra day for rain. that way we have much greater chance of a result.
a) keeping it england, it stays consistent, home of cricket, good crowds no matter who plays, good balance between bat and ball, good timing for viewing for europe / asia / na markets.
b) give it to current champion to host but risk ending up in any market
would not recommend fixing it to other places like a world cup etc.
only other change i would make is to make it a 6 day test or a 5.5 day test, or extra day for rain. that way we have much greater chance of a result.
Ab Fan
Senior Test Player
- Joined
- Sep 24, 2015
- Runs
- 26,191
Yes, the venue for finals should change. It is unfair for Asian teams.
Actually, this whole idea that England produces the most balanced pitches of all nations is crap. If that was the case, England won't have been so poor in India and Australia as they have been in last 10 years.
Actually, this whole idea that England produces the most balanced pitches of all nations is crap. If that was the case, England won't have been so poor in India and Australia as they have been in last 10 years.
ICC is realistic. Dont see Pak qualifying for a WTC final anytime in the near future. They should stop playing tests and focus on T20s as their is no test future in Pak
DeadlyVenom
Senior ODI Player
- Joined
- Jul 17, 2010
- Runs
- 22,975
- Post of the Week
- 1
That's why I said "when it was conceived"
I don't think you really read posts do you. Just Ctrl v a prepared reply
Agree with this. Plus nobody can assume that Ind will qualify for every WTC final. So, no one knows who the finalists will be.
So, personally I am OK with the WTC being in Eng each time. And to be a WC champion - you have to be able to win anywhere in any conditions. And shouldnt be an excuse for Ind especially with the resources they have. Aus won the 2023 WC inspite of everything being against them. A champion doesnt give excuses. But I feel if Ind qualify for the WTC final this time - they will go all the way..
Even when conceived. Nobody in their right minds thinks Pak will be in the WTC final.
RedwoodOriginal
ODI Debutant
- Joined
- Jul 8, 2018
- Runs
- 11,250
- Post of the Week
- 3
Seems like the only people who have an issue with this are Indian fans. So yeah, I will label it that way
RedwoodOriginal
ODI Debutant
- Joined
- Jul 8, 2018
- Runs
- 11,250
- Post of the Week
- 3
All these venues have served up some garbage pitches in just the last few years. MCG got a poor rating for the 2018 Ashss pitch. I think Bullring got a poor rating after last year's India South Africa test matchIndia also qualified in both WTC finals and the only team to do so...pls don't forget that.
Anyway, this has nothing to do with India. Don't you think every test country should be a given a chance to host it turn by turn like we do for other ICC events?
Are you saying MCG, Bullring, Wankhede or Bridgetown are not good venues for test cricket?
That is an excuse bro. Test pitches are made on a game on game basis. Just bocz those stadiums had a bad pitch ratings for one off games, that doesn't mean WTC finals can't be hosted in that country at all. Trent Bridge pitch was rated poor in 2014 too, just saying.
BDfanforever
First Class Player
- Joined
- Mar 18, 2008
- Runs
- 2,921
No its fair venue. Sri Lanka manages to win in England. WTC Final is pretty meaningless anyway. In Test, ranking is probably more important.
gibsyhesperis
Tape Ball Star
- Joined
- Dec 30, 2009
- Runs
- 705
England is a good choice because of the diversity of the population (basically there are reasonably large communities of virtually all Test playing countries) and because English fans would turn up for a final even if England were not playing.
This does not really apply elsewhere — how many Indians would turn up for a New Zealand vs South Africa final,
for example ?
Keep it here (hope I’m not being overly parochial).
This does not really apply elsewhere — how many Indians would turn up for a New Zealand vs South Africa final,
for example ?
Keep it here (hope I’m not being overly parochial).
Flat_Track_Bully
First Class Captain
- Joined
- Apr 6, 2015
- Runs
- 6,012
It's a farce.
It should be league format, 1st place takes the mace. Do they really have to IPLize everything.
It should be league format, 1st place takes the mace. Do they really have to IPLize everything.
jeeteshssaxena
First Class Captain
- Joined
- Nov 1, 2017
- Runs
- 5,231
If England qualifies for final thn they will have to face the other team in their own home conditions.
You know that home advantage is a big deal in test cricket, the argument here is not about India or Pakistan but about the fairness of this system.
jeeteshssaxena
First Class Captain
- Joined
- Nov 1, 2017
- Runs
- 5,231
SENA teams have always had a better record in SENA than in Asia, SriLanka bulldozed Aus 3-0 when they had Herath.
Would you have a problem here if WTC final is held in SriLanka or India, if you do then this is hypocrisy
Last edited by a moderator:
jeeteshssaxena
First Class Captain
- Joined
- Nov 1, 2017
- Runs
- 5,231
If its the home of cricket then why not hold every tournament there, why give other tournaments to different countries?
jeeteshssaxena
First Class Captain
- Joined
- Nov 1, 2017
- Runs
- 5,231
Then have all the tournaments there, why just WTC?
This home of cricket and best venute etc makes no sense whatsoever.
jeeteshssaxena
First Class Captain
- Joined
- Nov 1, 2017
- Runs
- 5,231
Obviously we will be the only team to have this issue as all other Asian teams are not good enough to even think of qualifying
jnaveen1980
Test Star
- Joined
- Mar 19, 2016
- Runs
- 36,578
Another thing is Duke balls are substandard cricket balls. Australia uses Kookaburra in their place. India uses SG. But why should these two teams use DUke
jeeteshssaxena
First Class Captain
- Joined
- Nov 1, 2017
- Runs
- 5,231
According to me, this is simply one of the most unfair finals I have seen, Asian team will always find a problem as compared to other teams in England.
The home advantage is the biggest factor in test cricket, how can ICC pretend that this final is even fair?
Imagine having this every time in India, we would have bulldozed these teams to submission.
The home advantage is the biggest factor in test cricket, how can ICC pretend that this final is even fair?
Imagine having this every time in India, we would have bulldozed these teams to submission.
kingusama92
T20I Captain
- Joined
- Jan 9, 2008
- Runs
- 44,171
- Post of the Week
- 1
England is the best choice.
More people show up regardless of the teams, the pitches are balanced, and the venues are great. Same thing just wouldn't happen in other host nations unless the host team itself is playing.
The format already struggles, at least this is one less issue to worry about by hosting it in England.
More people show up regardless of the teams, the pitches are balanced, and the venues are great. Same thing just wouldn't happen in other host nations unless the host team itself is playing.
The format already struggles, at least this is one less issue to worry about by hosting it in England.
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2023
- Runs
- 15,306
If England would be playing in the final you could call it unfair. But if Australia and India make it to the final then it's a neutral venue for both teams, which is fair enough.
If England is such a good place to play and is the home of cricket, why ICC don't host all its events there?
Pakistani posters are saying this arrangement is fine simply bcoz English conditions are tough for Asian sides and they know only India from Asian sub continent that has got ability to qualify for the finals. So they want tough conditions for India to play so that they don't win.
Had all the finals so far had been hosted in India and India was sitting with 2 WTC titles, same posters would be crying foul.
Not sure how can people be so dishonest with themselves.
Pakistani posters are saying this arrangement is fine simply bcoz English conditions are tough for Asian sides and they know only India from Asian sub continent that has got ability to qualify for the finals. So they want tough conditions for India to play so that they don't win.
Had all the finals so far had been hosted in India and India was sitting with 2 WTC titles, same posters would be crying foul.
Not sure how can people be so dishonest with themselves.
kingusama92
T20I Captain
- Joined
- Jan 9, 2008
- Runs
- 44,171
- Post of the Week
- 1
If England is such a good place to play and is the home of cricket, why ICC don't host all its events there?
Pakistani posters are saying this arrangement is fine simply bcoz English conditions are tough for Asian sides and they know only India from Asian sub continent that has got ability to qualify for the finals. So they want tough conditions for India to play so that they don't win.
Had all the finals so far had been hosted in India and India was sitting with 2 WTC titles, same posters would be crying foul.
Not sure how can people be so dishonest with themselves.
We have to be realistic. The format is already hanging on by a thread.
You're talking of an ideal situation where everything is rosy economically.
England is right in the middle when it comes to time zones making it easier as a neutral venue. This way any two teams can play and it will still be reasonable as the host nation.
There's no doubt the BCCI is also aware of this and accepted reality.
Nikhil_cric
Senior Test Player
- Joined
- Dec 4, 2011
- Runs
- 27,250
I don't think that's true at all. The first WTC began in 2019.
I don't think anyone expected PAK to be even competent in this format post Misbah
Hikaru
Tape Ball Regular
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2024
- Runs
- 316
Yes it's unfair, you can't have a world test championship final at one place forever, gives that nation an immense advantage in a one off game.
charlie007
Tape Ball Star
- Joined
- Jun 15, 2017
- Runs
- 658
In the next couple of WTC cycles, the championship game will shift outside England, most likely to Ahmedabad. What’s the clout worth if they can’t get it moved out!
RidiculousMan
First Class Star
- Joined
- Aug 6, 2023
- Runs
- 3,677
I think we should shift locations like we have in World Cups
charlie007
Tape Ball Star
- Joined
- Jun 15, 2017
- Runs
- 658
Usama, although I agree with what you have said about England from the time zone perspective, my post has nothing to do with it. I just wanted to acknowledge my like and appreciation for the quality of your overall posts, logical thought process, and lack of nationalistic vitriol (we have enough of them here from both sides). It is always a pleasure for me to read what you have to say, regardless of whether I agree with you or not.
We are always willing to trash the other people here for one reason or another, but I wanted to take this opportunity to recognize you as someone I greatly admire and my favorite poster around here. It would be great to have known you in person.
Keep going, friend!
jnaveen1980
Test Star
- Joined
- Mar 19, 2016
- Runs
- 36,578
yea. The problem is it is a bizarre final. There is no semi-final or quarter-final. Just final. You conduct a final for Tests that happen across 9 different countries.
- Joined
- Aug 29, 2023
- Runs
- 18,602
barring rain, England is a good venue for cricket. Only fairness will be challenged when England makes it into the finals, till then it is all fine.
RedwoodOriginal
ODI Debutant
- Joined
- Jul 8, 2018
- Runs
- 11,250
- Post of the Week
- 3
If you want that then just go ahead and say it. I want to see a WTC final where pace, swing, good batting and spin towards the latter days comes to the fore. Maybe if India hadn't lost the last two finals, Indian fans wouldn't be bringing this point up. Because no one else seems to have an issue with this besides Indian fans...who brought it up.
Last edited by a moderator:
RedwoodOriginal
ODI Debutant
- Joined
- Jul 8, 2018
- Runs
- 11,250
- Post of the Week
- 3
I thought India was a big team and here you are comparing yourself to Asian minnows?
RedwoodOriginal
ODI Debutant
- Joined
- Jul 8, 2018
- Runs
- 11,250
- Post of the Week
- 3
In general this tournament (if you even want to call it that) is a joke. The only way it makes sense is if all the teams play equal number of matches. I'm even okay with them making tiers based on rankings. But if teams are not playing equal number of matches, the tournament is a farce and has little credibility.
- Joined
- Aug 29, 2023
- Runs
- 18,602
I agree with this. Until all teams play equal number of games, this tournament has not credibility.
RedwoodOriginal
ODI Debutant
- Joined
- Jul 8, 2018
- Runs
- 11,250
- Post of the Week
- 3
And SG balls are not? Indian players like Kohli and Ashwin have gone on record to question the quality of SG balls.
Atleast with Duke balls the seam doesn't get destroyed within 60 overs
Nikhil_cric
Senior Test Player
- Joined
- Dec 4, 2011
- Runs
- 27,250
That was back in 2018. This is dated info. SG has improved in quality.
The SG is a very decent ball now . Dukes is the worst of the lot currently.
RedwoodOriginal
ODI Debutant
- Joined
- Jul 8, 2018
- Runs
- 11,250
- Post of the Week
- 3
More like 2021 mate. England-India series. Chennai test
Nikhil_cric
Senior Test Player
- Joined
- Dec 4, 2011
- Runs
- 27,250
OK even if it was then, it is nowhere near as bad as the current Dukes(2022-) which is comfortably the worst red ball being used right now.
kingusama92
T20I Captain
- Joined
- Jan 9, 2008
- Runs
- 44,171
- Post of the Week
- 1
Thanks for your kind words!
I am truly flattered.
The beauty of this forum is we get to interact with die-hard cricket fans from all over the world. It's the passion that unites us all. If we close our minds to new ideas because of nationality, favourite team, or any other differentiator then that is perhaps our greatest loss.
Varun
Senior Test Player
- Joined
- Dec 25, 2012
- Runs
- 25,029
- Post of the Week
- 1
England is the best venue.
It will always be a neutral location for both teams.
It will always be a neutral location for both teams.
No worries. It will not leave England. Because the rest couldn't care less about hosting. This includes the ICC. The ICC is supposed to be running the show!
jeeteshssaxena
First Class Captain
- Joined
- Nov 1, 2017
- Runs
- 5,231
I know you are frustrated, find some other way to release it , you are just embarrassing yourself here.
Is home advantage not one of the most significant thing in test cricket? How would it be fair if lets say Indian and England reach the final and it is in Lords ( Englands home ground)?
Yes, Indians will raise it because English conditions are our nemesis and its just not fair to is that every final is held there even though we beat the other teams in group table by a long margin.
Will Nz not have a unfair advantage if they play India in England?
The ground should be decided by table topper, plain and simple, or else rotate the venue.
Last edited by a moderator:
jeeteshssaxena
First Class Captain
- Joined
- Nov 1, 2017
- Runs
- 5,231
What spin did you see in the last two WTC finals? Where was bounce?
Why do uou just want to see Swing and seam, what about bounce or spin?
Last edited by a moderator:
jeeteshssaxena
First Class Captain
- Joined
- Nov 1, 2017
- Runs
- 5,231
Yeah that I agree, these English Bazballer cripples are not good enough to ever qualify.
Totally agree. In fact the whole WTC is a farce.
1. Teams pick and choose whom they play
2. Each test is worth different amount of points depending on the number games in a series. Probably the worst rule in sports.
3. No one knows when the "tournament" actually started.
4. The people supposed to run the show want no part of it. Hello ICC.
5. Finally......no one cares!
More like BCCI don't care. I am sure if they want the final in India it will happen. ICC will jump to it and make sure it does.
I do agree that the format is hanging by a thread. A very slim one at that.
Not just equal number of matches, the points should also be equal for all tests. Not depend on number test(s) in a series.
RedwoodOriginal
ODI Debutant
- Joined
- Jul 8, 2018
- Runs
- 11,250
- Post of the Week
- 3
It was a balanced game between bat and ball. The pitch didn't start blowing up pieces of soil on day one. Neither did 550 play 490 only for one side to then get shot out for 120 in their second innings, which is something we see far too often in a certain country. Instead of crying foul maybe you should accept the fact that India were outplayed on both occasions by teams that were better than them in that test match. For a side that claims to have one of the best batting and bowling line-ups in the world...including the world's best fast-bowler, winning in a place like England should not be an issue.
DeadlyVenom
Senior ODI Player
- Joined
- Jul 17, 2010
- Runs
- 22,975
- Post of the Week
- 1
It was conceived way before that, and the first set of fixtures on paper looked like it was a guaranteed final.
DeadlyVenom
Senior ODI Player
- Joined
- Jul 17, 2010
- Runs
- 22,975
- Post of the Week
- 1
it is a farce but it adds some context for many of the games. Before the test championship test cricket just meandered along. So it has helped give it some structure and definition but it could be better.
The main issue is point number 5. Not enough people really care. All other issues could be overlooked or even solved if people cared. But theres not a huge amount of interest.
RedwoodOriginal
ODI Debutant
- Joined
- Jul 8, 2018
- Runs
- 11,250
- Post of the Week
- 3
Nothing about this tournament makes any sense so why should the table topper get any sort of advantage? These principles would make any sense if all teams were playing equal number of matches or atleast playing each other. But none of that is happening.
Ahan. Thanks for stating the obvious. We all know how garbage Pakistan is. But I don't recall this thread being about Pakistan. You seem frustrated though so I'm not surprised you would bring this up.
Mesozoic
T20I Debutant
- Joined
- Sep 25, 2019
- Runs
- 6,429
It never looked like a guaranteed final. Pakistan were never at the level of SENA+India since 2016 in order for them to challenge for a top 2 place for a two year cycle...even with all the scheduling favours.
DeadlyVenom
Senior ODI Player
- Joined
- Jul 17, 2010
- Runs
- 22,975
- Post of the Week
- 1
However, if you truly are a fan of the game, then put aside your feelings towards India and you will come to the same conclusion that is is flawed.
You can't have a 2 year tournament where every series has more than 1 match decided on a random game in a neutral country.
Either stick to a league format only, make the final a series, or if it's one-off, give the top team the advantage because they have earned it. The ICC can assume custodianship of the pitch preparation to minimise any foul play ( from Indians).
You can't have a 2 year tournament where every series has more than 1 match decided on a random game in a neutral country.
Either stick to a league format only, make the final a series, or if it's one-off, give the top team the advantage because they have earned it. The ICC can assume custodianship of the pitch preparation to minimise any foul play ( from Indians).
Last edited by a moderator:
RedwoodOriginal
ODI Debutant
- Joined
- Jul 8, 2018
- Runs
- 11,250
- Post of the Week
- 3
I love the table toppers should get choice of final argument. If a team gets favourable home fixtures in any given cycle then obviously they are going have a higher likeability of topping the table! So now you to bring in even more luck into the equation in a tournament that barely makes sense as it is.
Last edited by a moderator:
Mesozoic
T20I Debutant
- Joined
- Sep 25, 2019
- Runs
- 6,429
Why will luck even come into the equation?
If a team dominates at home and competes well away from home , they will obviously finish top of the table like India did in the first cycle and Australia did in the second. It's not like Bangladesh or Pakistan type mediocre teams will top it by winning too many on home soil while getting spanked away.
Similar threads
