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Is Jasprit Bumrah a better bowler than Mohammad Asif and Mohammad Amir?

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worldlife92

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I believe Bumrah is just behind Wasim Akram and Imran if you compare him with Pak bowlers and hence better than Asif, Amir, Shoaib and Waqar
 
Yes he is.

Extremely skillful bowler who is excellent in all conditions against any opponent and a genuine match winner.

Amir is not even half as good as him. Pathan is same level as Amir in Tests, he won the memorable test match at Perth in 2007, player of match in WT20 2007 final, took hatrick vs Pakistan and several other memorable games too.

Asif was a superb bowler but he barely played 20 tests which is not enough to rate anyone as a great of the game. He was a "could have been great" case.
 
No, he isn’t.

Has a chance to overtake Amir post timeskip, but that’s it.

Best Indian pacer by a country mile, though.
 
He is doing pretty good so far he has looked unplayable at some times but his action might be suspect.

Personally speaking he is very difficult to watch. He has the most ugliest action in the world cricket and it's just very difficult to bear.
 
Suleiman said:
No, he isn’t.

Has a chance to overtake Amir post timeskip, but that’s it.

Best Indian pacer by a country mile, though.
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Nah, he is far better than those 2 nobodies.
Asif was a cheat and amir failed I'm the premier format of the game
 
RexRex said:
Bumrah is better than Wasim Akram.
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He is surely in the same class, but how is he better with such a short career?

Yes, if he bowls India to victory in few more overseas test series then that conversation can happen despite shorter career, but a log way to go.
 
RexRex said:
Bumrah is better than Wasim Akram.
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In terms of versatility only akram has. in Australian conditions Bumrah bowled different lengths. He bowled hard lengths and hit the deck. Here he is on the fuller side mixing slower ones.
 
Statpadder Inc said:
Nah, not better than waqar younis. And never forget how akhtar soiled himself against India in 2003 & the 1999 final.
He has won 2 test series in Australia, your bowl tampering phasst bowling legends couldn't even win 1.
Love the frustration and 😢
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1 series win against Australia c and another one in which he was injured.

He has never won a series in NZ, ENG and SA. In SA he had golden chance a couple of years ago where SA need 200 odd in 4th innings in both tests I believe but he choked.

Against England he had a target of 378 to defend to win a series he choked.

CT he choked

2 world cups in a row he choked.

WTC final against NZ HE choked and went wicketless.
 
Bumrah is way ahead of Amir but if I compare him with Asif, I would rate them equally. Even though Bumrah is slightly ahead than Asif too because of his pace.
 
Buffet said:
He is surely in the same class, but how is he better with such a short career?

Yes, if he bowls India to victory in few more overseas test series then that conversation can happen despite shorter career, but a log way to go.
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Sure, Bumrah might decline later on in his career, you never know .. but as it stands now, I would pick Jasprit over Wasim Akram in a world XI.
 
I just checked their stats

Aamir :
Test Bowling average: 30.47 (Meh)
ODI Bowling average: 29.62 (Meh)
T20I bowling average: 21.2 (GREAT)

Asif:
Test Bowling average: 24.36 (V Good)
ODI Bowling average: 33.13 (Poor)
T20I bowling average: 26.38 (Okey Dokey)

Bumrah:
Test Bowling average: 20.19 (Incredible)
ODI Bowling average: 23.55 (Very very good)
T20I bowling average: 19.66 (Unbelievable)

Why is Bumrah being compared with these two? What am I missing? :unsure:
 
Croma said:
I just checked their stats

Aamir :
Test Bowling average: 30.47 (Meh)
ODI Bowling average: 29.62 (Meh)
T20I bowling average: 21.2 (GREAT)

Asif:
Test Bowling average: 24.36 (V Good)
ODI Bowling average: 33.13 (Poor)
T20I bowling average: 26.38 (Okey Dokey)

Bumrah:
Test Bowling average: 20.19 (Incredible)
ODI Bowling average: 23.55 (Very very good)
T20I bowling average: 19.66 (Unbelievable)

Why is Bumrah being compared with these two? What am I missing? :unsure:
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There is no comparison. You are not missing anything.
 
RexRex said:
Sure, Bumrah might decline later on in his career, you never know .. but as it stands now, I would pick Jasprit over Wasim Akram in a world XI.
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Well, I have no issue with you or anyone else doing that. Both are top tier in all formats. Bumrah is probably harder to hit than Wasim, but my reply was based on career achievements and longevity certainly plays a part.

I wouldn't pick Bumrah over Wasim in any XI and main reason would be far shorter career so far despite being in the same league.
 
I would never pick Bumrah over Wasim. (Tests and ODI)

Wasim is seriously the greatest Left Arm Pacer to have ever existed in the game. And if you add his batting (where he seriously under-achieved), I will pick him over Jasprit any day.

And the greatest Right Arm Pacer I have ever seen is Glenn Mcgrath. (I have not seen the West Indian Greats, so cant say nothing about them)

Bumrah might be in the top-most tier of pacers who might have ever existed, but at the very top are Mcgrath and Wasim.

____________
But but but... all-round pacer including T20I he is undisputed No.1 for the others greats didnt play much T20I. :unsure:
 
Croma said:
I just checked their stats

Aamir :
Test Bowling average: 30.47 (Meh)
ODI Bowling average: 29.62 (Meh)
T20I bowling average: 21.2 (GREAT)

Asif:
Test Bowling average: 24.36 (V Good)
ODI Bowling average: 33.13 (Poor)
T20I bowling average: 26.38 (Okey Dokey)

Bumrah:
Test Bowling average: 20.19 (Incredible)
ODI Bowling average: 23.55 (Very very good)
T20I bowling average: 19.66 (Unbelievable)

Why is Bumrah being compared with these two? What am I missing? :unsure:
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Economy rate should weigh far more in T20 than bowling averages..
 
He is much better than Asif and Amir. If he continues on the current trajectory and hits the 300 wickets mark then he may be up there in the conversation for best subcontinent seamer.

Currently he is below Wasim, Waqar and Imran, perhaps even Kapil Dev when it comes to SC pacers.
 
Bumrah is up there with the best bowler from Asia, however he doesn't have the appeal or generate the excitement which Wasim produced.

Matter of preference really, imo Bumrah is like the Shane Bond of Asia.
 
DeadlyVenom said:
He is much better than Asif and Amir. If he continues on the current trajectory and hits the 300 wickets mark then he may be up there in the conversation for best subcontinent seamer.

Currently he is below Wasim, Waqar and Imran, perhaps even Kapil Dev when it comes to SC pacers.
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I doubt Bumrah would get 300 wickets, with all the T20s, franchise cricket, test matches etc. Injury will eventually claim Bumrah's career.
 
Significantly better.

I do think Asif was the highest IQ bowler of these three. But Bumrah is simply a level superior so there is no comparison in my eyes.

Wasim is #1 though and for me his level of skill was something else.
 
Romali_rotti said:
I doubt Bumrah would get 300 wickets, with all the T20s, franchise cricket, test matches etc. Injury will eventually claim Bumrah's career.
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It will be difficult. Even if he doesn't reach it, he will still be a top-class bowler, but to be ranked amongst the ATGs then, longevity is a significant factor.
 
followed said:
He is doing pretty good so far he has looked unplayable at some times but his action might be suspect.

Personally speaking he is very difficult to watch. He has the most ugliest action in the world cricket and it's just very difficult to bear.
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His elbow is absolutely straight at the time of release, but if his bowling exploits make it difficult for you to swallow the bitter pill that he is better than any current Pakistani bowler, well then that’s between you and your therapist.
 
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DeadlyVenom said:
It will be difficult. Even if he doesn't reach it, he will still be a top-class bowler, but to be ranked amongst the ATGs then, longevity is a significant factor.
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Hardly. The only criteria for an all time great bowler are statistics and adequately large and diverse sample space.

If he can record 10 or more test matches in the top four countries (Australia, England, South Africa, New Zealand) and achieve more than 40-50 wickets against each of them outside home conditions, there is then enough data to make conclusions.

If he achieved this over five years or seven years, then the so called longevity is meaningless.
 
kingusama92 said:
Significantly better.

I do think Asif was the highest IQ bowler of these three. But Bumrah is simply a level superior so there is no comparison in my eyes.

Wasim is #1 though and for me his level of skill was something else.
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Wasim has significant control over his bowling, with an ability to deliver with significant precision the delivery he intended. This is testament from the fact that on the rare occasions he did get countered by a batsman it was not because wasim was spraying it all over the place and was picked easily.

This trait is absent from most other bowlers I have observed, including bumrah who can occasionally drift down the leg
 
captain.hansolo said:
Hardly. The only criteria for an all time great bowler are statistics and adequately large and diverse sample space.

If he can record 10 or more test matches in the top four countries (Australia, England, South Africa, New Zealand) and achieve more than 40-50 wickets against each of them outside home conditions, there is then enough data to make conclusions.

If he achieved this over five years or seven years, then the so called longevity is meaningless.
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I would say 30 plus away wickets against top 4-5 sides gives a pretty good idea. I don't think many ATG bowlers will pass the filter of 40-50 away wickets against top 4 countries during their playing days.

Now Bumrah has already gotten 30 plus wickets in Aus, Eng and SA. Only NZ is one place he needs to bowl more. At home, he just needs to play 20-25 tests to make the sample size large enough because his home average is ridiculously low at 13 so far but only 6 tests.
 
Bumrah is an all format bowler. He plays leagues regularly. Plus he has unusual action. So longevity is out of the question. He should be appreciated for what he achieved during that phase. But he has a decent sample size already more than what Shane Bond did. Bond played only 18 tests. Although achieved great things in those 18 tests he definitely is not spoken in the same breath as someone like Alan Donald.
 
Meh, there is no comparison.

But Bumrah needs to double his test wickets count and maintain similar stats to become a ATG.
 
jnaveen1980 said:
Bumrah is an all format bowler. He plays leagues regularly. Plus he has unusual action. So longevity is out of the question. He should be appreciated for what he achieved during that phase. But he has a decent sample size already more than what Shane Bond did. Bond played only 18 tests. Although achieved great things in those 18 tests he definitely is not spoken in the same breath as someone like Alan Donald.
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I don't think number of tests makes difference. As long as you have enough sample size in away and home conditions, it should work.


Removing minnows, Steyn has 136 test wickets away from home. Donald has 140 wickets. Waqar had 160 odd wickets.

Bumrah already has 126 away wickets despite playing majority of away games against the top 4 sides. So not much to do away from home for sample size.

He is in good company with Ambrose, McGrath and Marshall for away tests. Just need to have large sample size for home. 25-30 tests at home is large enough sample size to judge at home. It will be unrealistic to expect too large a sample size for all format bowler like Bumrah. He already has large enough sample size for away but needs more home games. So far doing ridiculously well at home but early days.

awayB.png
 
If fit enough he should play 27 tests for India in next three years .. Overall he may play 70-75 test matches. We can't expect 100 tests career for future cricketer, that doesn't mean we should reject all of those stats ..
 
Skill-wise, Asif was way above anybody else, he was a magician but unfortunately, he chose the wrong path. Bumrah is more hardworking which earned him many wickets. Definitely one of the best ones in the modern times.
 
BouncerGuy said:
Skill-wise, Asif was way above anybody else, he was a magician but unfortunately, he chose the wrong path. Bumrah is more hardworking which earned him many wickets. Definitely one of the best ones in the modern times.
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Asif was a genius.

Bumrah is the Steven Smith of pace bowling. Someone who was not natural but worked hard to get to where he ended up.
 
sweep_shot said:
Asif was a genius.

Bumrah is the Steven Smith of pace bowling. Someone who was not natural but worked hard to get to where he ended up.
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Yep, Asif in his prime was simply unplayable. He could have been a beast but money got him. Bumrah is a work horse and is more focused on doing well rather than doing antiques and comical stuff.
 
Can't really compare Bumrah with former Pakistani greats like wasim Shoaib Asif.Bumrah is playing in T20 era where batsmen with good defensive techniques are almost extinct.
 
Ahmed216 said:
Can't really compare Bumrah with former Pakistani greats like wasim Shoaib Asif.Bumrah is playing in T20 era where batsmen with good defensive techniques are almost extinct.
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This.

Asif had to bowl at far more quality batters. Asif had to face Tendulkar, Ponting, Clarke, Dravid, Sanga, Mahela, Amla etc.

Bumrah mostly faces T20 junk batters. Majority of the modern day batters have inferior techniques.
 
sweep_shot said:
This.

Asif played far more quality batters. Asif had to face Tendulkar, Ponting, Clarke, Dravid, Sanga, Mahela etc.

Bumrah mostly faces T20 junk batters. Majority of the modern day batters have inferior techniques.
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Yep Asif demolished Sanga Jawawardene Sanath dilshan Samraweera on his first SL tour. Compare that line up to current SL
 
BouncerGuy said:
Skill-wise, Asif was way above anybody else, he was a magician but unfortunately, he chose the wrong path. Bumrah is more hardworking which earned him many wickets. Definitely one of the best ones in the modern times.
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sweep_shot said:
Stats would show Bumrah is better.

But, I think Asif is a better bowler than both Bumrah and Amir.
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That's false.

Asif was a condition based seamer.

His avg in Australia is 35.
England 29
Pakistan 42

His avg is skewed by his performance in

SA 18
Nz 19
SL 10

Its customary on PP to big up pakistani players on "What If" basis.

Amir was apparently as good as Wasim when he was banned. We all saw what happened on his comeback.

Zahid is hyped as fastest ever.

Then Asif as unplayable.
 
sweep_shot said:
Asif was a genius.

Bumrah is the Steven Smith of pace bowling. Someone who was not natural but worked hard to get to where he ended up.
Click to expand...

Asif was no genius. He was a condition based seamer.

And Steve Smith is an ATG far better Batsman then your so called "natural".
 
cricketjoshila said:
That's false.

Asif was a condition based seamer.

His avg in Australia is 35.
England 29
Pakistan 42

His avg is skewed by his performance in

SA 18
Nz 19
SL 10

Its customary on PP to big up pakistani players on "What If" basis.

Amir was apparently as good as Wasim when he was banned. We all saw what happened on his comeback.

Zahid is hyped as fastest ever.

Then Asif as unplayable.
Click to expand...

Zahid was indeed extremely fast. Shoaib Akthar himself said Zahid was faster than him.

Asif was rated by many relevant people (not just fans).
 
Asif relied on favourable conditions and achieved squat in test cricket. Bumrah has performed everywhere
 
sweep_shot said:
Zahid was indeed extremely fast. Shoaib Akthar himself said Zahid was faster than him.

Asif was rated by many relevant people (not just fans).
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The fastest i saw Zahid bowl was in SA in 2000s and he was in mid 140s.

That's the fact.

Asif being rated and Asif being better than Bumrah are two different things.
 
Asif had to face these guys --> Sanga, Mahela, Tendulkar, Dravid, Ponting, Clarke, Kallis, Graeme Smith, Dilshan, Sanath, Samaraweera, Amla etc.

Bumrah mostly faced technically inferior batters.
 
Statpadder Inc said:
Asif relied on favourable conditions and achieved squat in test cricket. Bumrah has performed everywhere
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Yes.

Asif's performance in SL was on a seaming track.

This is what SL coach Trevor Penny said during that Kandy test.


On the condition of the pitch
It got flatter as the ball got older and then once the new ball was taken it started to seam around again. I think it will stay seaming for the next couple of days and we were quite pleased to see some turn out there.

the first day's play
We are really pleased in our camp about how it ended up - [Kumar] Sangakkara and [Thilan] Samaraweera really played well to get us out of a hole at 61 for 3. The way it was moving around this morning we could have been bowled out by tea time. I think if we had bowled first we'd have bowled them out by now. Obviously, we'd prefer to be four or five down rather then eight but I think its honours even at the moment.
 
sweep_shot said:
Asif had to face these guys --> Sanga, Mahela, Tendulkar, Dravid, Ponting, Clarke, Kallis, Graeme Smith, Dilshan, Sanath, Samaraweera, Amla etc.

Bumrah mostly faced technically inferior batters.
Click to expand...

The best technique is the one with which Batsman can score runs.

Dilshan Samaraweera Sanath Mahela. 😂

What is Asifs avg in Australia? 35
England 29
Pakistan 42

Unless it seamed, he struggled.
 
sweep_shot said:
Asif had to face these guys --> Sanga, Mahela, Tendulkar, Dravid, Ponting, Clarke, Kallis, Graeme Smith, Dilshan, Sanath, Samaraweera, Amla etc.

Bumrah mostly faced technically inferior batters.
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Prove that modern batsman are technically inferior.
 
In what world is Asif more skillful than Bumrah? The only delivery that Asif bowls better is the wobble seam delivery. Bumrah is much better exponent of reverse swing, has an all time yorker, a very deceptive slower and is faster. Like really, apart from Akram no bowler had such a complete arsenal. It's pretty clear if you watch him bowl without bias.
 
cricketjoshila said:
Amir was apparently as good as Wasim when he was banned. We all saw what happened on his comeback.

Zahid is hyped as fastest ever.

Then Asif as unplayable.
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I think Amir could've been a Wasim tier bowler before the ban. It can't be underestimated how bad 4 years of zero professional cricket is for a players development. I'm mildly surprised he achieved as much as he did on his return.

in any event, Bumrah is a vastly superior bowler to the likes of Asif and Amir, and it shows in his numbers. I think he's got the second best average of any bowler with 150+ wickets and he's done it with a heavy diet of cricket against strong English, Australian, Saffer and Kiwi batting lineups. The guy is a once in a generation bowler, and comparisons with Wasim are fair. I'd like to see him stay at this level for a few more years before making a judgment on that one but he's now clearly ahead of any other Asian pace bowler save him and Imran imo.
 
Way better. Bhumra is an all conditions all pitches type of bowler, someone who can take the pitch out of the equation and still win games for his country single-handedly
 
anikrc1 said:
In what world is Asif more skillful than Bumrah? The only delivery that Asif bowls better is the wobble seam delivery. Bumrah is much better exponent of reverse swing, has an all time yorker, a very deceptive slower and is faster. Like really, apart from Akram no bowler had such a complete arsenal. It's pretty clear if you watch him bowl without bias.
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On top of it, Holding said bumrah got best bouncer of the current lot.in 2019,dujon said he would have bumrah along with his pace arsenal as no one else got that freakish ability.
 
Romali_rotti said:
I doubt Bumrah would get 300 wickets, with all the T20s, franchise cricket, test matches etc. Injury will eventually claim Bumrah's career.
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Even close to 250 while maintaining these stats certainly puts him right up there with the greats, especially across all formats.

He has been sensational. I actually never knew how good his test average was until recently. I knew it was good but not this good.
 
He us inferior to all.
Bowler that averages 20 and about 22 in sena is inferior to waqar who averages 30 vs seaiw

Only wasim is ahead. This guy is a freak genius
 
sweep_shot said:
This.

Asif had to bowl at far more quality batters. Asif had to face Tendulkar, Ponting, Clarke, Dravid, Sanga, Mahela, Amla etc.

Bumrah mostly faces T20 junk batters. Majority of the modern day batters have inferior techniques.
Click to expand...
But statsshow that 21st century batsman scored more runs per wicket than 2oth ...
 
sweep_shot said:
Asif had to face these guys --> Sanga, Mahela, Tendulkar, Dravid, Ponting, Clarke, Kallis, Graeme Smith, Dilshan, Sanath, Samaraweera, Amla etc.

Bumrah mostly faced technically inferior batters.
Click to expand...
All those batsmen would get wrecked by jasprit. He is better than all barring wasim
 
DeadlyVenom said:
Even close to 250 while maintaining these stats certainly puts him right up there with the greats, especially across all formats.

He has been sensational. I actually never knew how good his test average was until recently. I knew it was good but not this good.
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I feel if he can get to 200 wickets before calling it a career, it will be an achievement.

He is 30, injuries are coming, no way he can make it to 250 test wickets having to also play the shorter formats, like IPL, T20 internationals and ODIs etc.
 
Not better than Wasim(would have to be top3 pacers evers to do that).

Better than the rest IMO.
 
Bumrah has won multiple tests in South Africa, Australia and England with man of the match awards, 5fers, game changing spells. In India he is bowling like peak Malcolm Marshall or Dale Steyn. In tests no contest really.

In ODIs and T20s, Aamir is the best because of his critical role in 2 ICC trophy wins.
 
DeadlyVenom said:
Even close to 250 while maintaining these stats certainly puts him right up there with the greats, especially across all formats.

He has been sensational. I actually never knew how good his test average was until recently. I knew it was good but not this good.
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+1

250 plus test wickets are long way to go right now.

But yah, if he gets there with good output and keeps it up in other formats as well then he will belong among the greats in all formats.
 
anikrc1 said:
In what world is Asif more skillful than Bumrah? The only delivery that Asif bowls better is the wobble seam delivery. Bumrah is much better exponent of reverse swing, has an all time yorker, a very deceptive slower and is faster. Like really, apart from Akram no bowler had such a complete arsenal. It's pretty clear if you watch him bowl without bias.
Click to expand...


Asif was a fantastic bowler, but no way more skillful than Bumrah.

Bumrah is pretty much complete bowler who can use new ball, old ball, reverse, yorker, bouncers, seam, swing, control, pace .... Wasim had all those stuff, not Asif. To top it off, all format bowler due to being so complete. Again, only Wasim was like that due to being so complete.

It's rare to be so good in shorter and longer formats at the same time.
 
Wasim is one of my all-time greatest bowlers. Bumrah is not there, at least not yet. I loved watching Asif in Sri Lanka and England. He was very good but didn't watch him enough to compare with the above.
 
Mohammad Asif was more of a helpful pitch bully. Deadly on green seaming pitches. Bang average on flat pitches

Amir was never really test quality - before or after his ban. Always more of a ODI & T20 bowler
 
NishanKonar said:
Mohammad Asif was more of a helpful pitch bully. Deadly on green seaming pitches. Bang average on flat pitches

Amir was never really test quality - before or after his ban. Always more of a ODI & T20 bowler
Click to expand...

Check Amir's Test performances in 2010.
 
You can call Bumrah overrated in ODIs and T20s, even a choker. But tests, come on now, you have to be very very biased to undermine his test creds. He is matching Malcolm Marshall at this stage of his career, and Marshall is supposed to be the undisputed GOAT.
 
Yes.

The only question over Bumrah is about longevity. He's already missed a lot of cricket. Can he continue to play all three formats for the forseeable future ?

His biggest strength, his unusual action, is also his biggest weakness as it puts lots of stress on his body.

I read in an Indian newspaper that he's made some minor technical adjustments post-comeback, including lengthening his run-up slightly, to reduce that stress. However there's a reason why actions like that are rare.
 
sweep_shot said:
Check Amir's Test performances in 2010.
Click to expand...
Amir had average of 29 before his ban - even after playing so many test matches in England & Australia !

Amir was very good in T20s & ODI but was bang average in test matches. Had a few good spells on green seaming conditions but nothing beyond that. Struggled badly on flat pitches !
 
I still want to know which selector thought Bumrah wasn't good enough to play test cricket.
 
Swashbuckler said:
You can call Bumrah overrated in ODIs and T20s, even a choker. But tests, come on now, you have to be very very biased to undermine his test creds. He is matching Malcolm Marshall at this stage of his career, and Marshall is supposed to be the undisputed GOAT.
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Easily the best test bowler of this generation. Nobody won test matches so consistently both home & away.

Daley Steyn was last great matchwinner on all conditions. Before him there was Malcolm Marshall

So if Bumrah takes 300 wickets he will belong to the league of Dale Steyn & Malcolm Marshall
 
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