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Is Jasprit Bumrah a better bowler than Mohammad Asif and Mohammad Amir?

Bewal Express said:
It isn't. He chucks. If there was no IPL or Ind power he would have been tested more times than anyone else in the modern game.
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I also believe Bumrah should be tested.

Anyone with an alleged hyperextension should be tested just to rule out any chucking and officially confirm the hyperextension.

If Murali and Shoaib Akthar could be tested, why not Bumrah? What are they afraid of if they have nothing to hide?
 
Lol at the clowns still crying salty tears about Bumrah's action just because their overhyped bowlers aren't good enough to tie his shoelaces.

And the fact that these allegations come only when he bowls well and wins India a big game , tells you everything about the motive of these low lives with room temperature IQ. Peak small dog syndrome.
 
sweep_shot said:
I also believe Bumrah should be tested.

Anyone with an alleged hyperextension should be tested just to rule out any chucking and officially confirm the hyperextension.

If Murali and Shoaib Akthar could be tested, why not Bumrah? What are they afraid of if they have nothing to hide?
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Absolutely. But they know he would be finished.
 
Bewal Express said:
It makes no difference either way but he chucks
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It does because he doesn't chuck. Just cause other Asian teams want him to be labelled as a chucker doesn't mean he chucks.

If he is chucking then so is shoaib who actually was accused by shewag several times of chucking but clearly shoaib has both hyper extension and hyper tension.
 
sweep_shot said:
I also believe Bumrah should be tested.

Anyone with an alleged hyperextension should be tested just to rule out any chucking and officially confirm the hyperextension.

If Murali and Shoaib Akthar could be tested, why not Bumrah? What are they afraid of if they have nothing to hide?
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Why should he test when he doesn't chuck though. Makes no sense.
 
jnaveen1980 said:
But for PSL Naseem shah and Shaheen afridi would have been tested more times than anyone else in the modern game.
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Shaheen actually genuinely chucks certain balls

@sweep_shot

But you guys will disagree hey?

Husnain chucked and he got found out. Still chucks certain balls.

Naseem has a clean action but he sucks.
 
kron said:
Shaheen actually genuinely chucks certain balls

@sweep_shot

But you guys will disagree hey?

Husnain chucked and he got found out. Still chucks certain balls.

Naseem has a clean action but he sucks.
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Sarfraz Nawaz his own country man wanted his bowling checked

Sarfaraz Nawaz casts doubts on Shaheen Shah Afridi's bowling action

Sarfraz Nawaz on a TV show cast doubt on SSA's action saying it should be picked up by a coach and fixed soon. I don't know whether action is OK or not l, that's a different question, but seriously??? When nobody in the world has questioned his action, you being an ex cricketer yourself are...
ppforum.pakpassion.net ppforum.pakpassion.net
 
Mesozoic said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1490735679898329090
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I said this before but most Pakistanis don't understand chucking and cannot call out chuckers because they can't pick out what's happening.

This was clearly evident when they supported Ajmal for 6 years and then turned around and started accusing random Indian bowlers for chucking in 2014.

Even when Hasnain was called , many argued that was because Aussies were jealous :inti
 
sweep_shot said:
I also believe Bumrah should be tested.

Anyone with an alleged hyperextension should be tested just to rule out any chucking and officially confirm the hyperextension.

If Murali and Shoaib Akthar could be tested, why not Bumrah? What are they afraid of if they have nothing to hide?
Click to expand...
Former India head coach Greg Chappell believes that the Australian top order is a major concern for the hosts after a 295-run loss to India in the Border-Gavaskar Trophy series opener in Perth. India's win was biggest by the margin of runs against Australia in Australia. The previous biggest win dates back to 1977, when India won their first Test Down Under in Melbourne. It was also their 10th Test victory in the country. After opting to bat first, India were bowled out for just 150 but Jasprit Bumrah, standing in as captain in full-time skipper Rohit Sharma's absence, swung the momentum back in India's favour with a brilliant five-wicket haul that restricted Australia to just 104. Overall, he snapped eight wickets across the match.

"Yet it was Australia's batting performance that was more concerning. India's bowlers, spearheaded by the lethal Jasprit Bumrah, looked sharper and more menacing. By the way, please stop this nonsense of questioning Bumrah's action. It is unique, but it is unequivocally clean. It demeans a champion performer and the game to even bring it up. The top order is a major concern. To avoid forced changes, they must deliver in Adelaide," Chappell wrote in his column in The Sydney Morning Herald.

Australia batter Marnus Labuschagne is facing pressure, having not scored a century since July 2023. He was dismissed for 2 from 52 balls and 3 from five deliveries in the first Test. Chappell believes that the right-hander is playing for survival instead of looking for runs.


"Marnus Labuschagne knows he is under pressure. With only 330 runs from his last 16 innings, he must rediscover his form quickly and revert to the free-flowing style of old; two off 52 balls is not good enough. A change of mindset should be his first port of call. He looks to be batting for survival when he really should be looking to score runs. A subtle but important difference," he wrote.

"At this stage, I don't expect the Australian selectors to panic. However, if the same team takes the field in Adelaide and falters under the lights … watch out!" Chappell added.

After India managed to dismiss Australia for 104 in the first innings and gained a 46-run advantage, Yashasvi Jaiswal (161) and KL Rahul (77) set the stage for a big total. The duo combined to add 201 runs - the highest opening wicket stand for India in Australia.

Chappell was full of praises for "emerging superstar" Jaiswal and called him a fearless cricketer who is following the mantle of Indian batting greats like Sachin Tendulkar and Virat Kohli.

"The pitch, too, evolved, becoming less treacherous. Yashasvi Jaiswal and KL Rahul capitalised, making the Australian bowlers look ordinary. Rahul's quality is well-known, but Jaiswal is an emerging superstar. The young opener is fearless and appears poised to inherit the mantle of Indian batting excellence, following the likes of Virat Kohli and Sachin Tendulkar," he wrote.

:shh​


sports.ndtv.com

"Stop This Nonsense": Controversial Ex-India Coach's Brutal Take On Jasprit Bumrah's 'Illegal Action' Allegations | Cricket News

Former India head coach Greg Chappell delivered a massive verdict on the controversy surrounding Jasprit Bumrah's bowling action.
sports.ndtv.com sports.ndtv.com
 
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Devadwal said:
Former India head coach Greg Chappell believes that the Australian top order is a major concern for the hosts after a 295-run loss to India in the Border-Gavaskar Trophy series opener in Perth. India's win was biggest by the margin of runs against Australia in Australia. The previous biggest win dates back to 1977, when India won their first Test Down Under in Melbourne. It was also their 10th Test victory in the country. After opting to bat first, India were bowled out for just 150 but Jasprit Bumrah, standing in as captain in full-time skipper Rohit Sharma's absence, swung the momentum back in India's favour with a brilliant five-wicket haul that restricted Australia to just 104. Overall, he snapped eight wickets across the match.

"Yet it was Australia's batting performance that was more concerning. India's bowlers, spearheaded by the lethal Jasprit Bumrah, looked sharper and more menacing. By the way, please stop this nonsense of questioning Bumrah's action. It is unique, but it is unequivocally clean. It demeans a champion performer and the game to even bring it up. The top order is a major concern. To avoid forced changes, they must deliver in Adelaide," Chappell wrote in his column in The Sydney Morning Herald.

Australia batter Marnus Labuschagne is facing pressure, having not scored a century since July 2023. He was dismissed for 2 from 52 balls and 3 from five deliveries in the first Test. Chappell believes that the right-hander is playing for survival instead of looking for runs.


"Marnus Labuschagne knows he is under pressure. With only 330 runs from his last 16 innings, he must rediscover his form quickly and revert to the free-flowing style of old; two off 52 balls is not good enough. A change of mindset should be his first port of call. He looks to be batting for survival when he really should be looking to score runs. A subtle but important difference," he wrote.

"At this stage, I don't expect the Australian selectors to panic. However, if the same team takes the field in Adelaide and falters under the lights … watch out!" Chappell added.

After India managed to dismiss Australia for 104 in the first innings and gained a 46-run advantage, Yashasvi Jaiswal (161) and KL Rahul (77) set the stage for a big total. The duo combined to add 201 runs - the highest opening wicket stand for India in Australia.

Chappell was full of praises for "emerging superstar" Jaiswal and called him a fearless cricketer who is following the mantle of Indian batting greats like Sachin Tendulkar and Virat Kohli.

"The pitch, too, evolved, becoming less treacherous. Yashasvi Jaiswal and KL Rahul capitalised, making the Australian bowlers look ordinary. Rahul's quality is well-known, but Jaiswal is an emerging superstar. The young opener is fearless and appears poised to inherit the mantle of Indian batting excellence, following the likes of Virat Kohli and Sachin Tendulkar," he wrote.

:shh​


sports.ndtv.com

"Stop This Nonsense": Controversial Ex-India Coach's Brutal Take On Jasprit Bumrah's 'Illegal Action' Allegations | Cricket News

Former India head coach Greg Chappell delivered a massive verdict on the controversy surrounding Jasprit Bumrah's bowling action.
sports.ndtv.com sports.ndtv.com
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This is why i never engage with cricket illiterates. It brings down the quality of discussion. I am a silent member in Australian cricket forum. Not a single person talked about action. They just discussed about what changes have to be made to improve their team performance.
 
Please keep your chat relevant to topic. Do not derail it by bringing Pakistan here
 
Bewal Express said:
Same thing. His career would have been ended
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There are so many pakistani experts, why don't they call Bumrah a chucker?

Someone said Indians are getting different balls in ICC events.

Someone accused Indians of ball tampering.

Whose career got ended?

There are experts who have actually explained Bumrahs hyperextension. But no one has called him a chucker.

Tommorow if Bumrah is tested and then cleared, you will cry that BCCI influenced the test.
 
Mesozoic said:
True lol.

Basically all this comes down as an after effect of a better realisation that an Indian fast bowler is at the top of the world while their best Test bowler is Khurram Shehzad. :yk
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Not jut best. Best Asian bowler ever all formats
 
India fast bowler Jasprit Bumrah has regained the top spot in the ICC Men’s Test Bowling Rankings after leading his team to a 295-run victory over Australia in the first match of their series in Perth.This is the third time that Bumrah has been top of the rankings this year. He was top-ranked for two one-month stretches each starting in February and October
 
isn't there any thread just about Bumrah and ones without any comparisons to any current bowler?... someone please direct me to that thread.. thanks..

seriously in contemporary cricket... he is untouchable... you can only compare him to legendary yesteryear ATG's from now on..
 
Croma said:
isn't there any thread just about Bumrah and ones without any comparisons to any current bowler?... someone please direct me to that thread.. thanks..

seriously in contemporary cricket... he is untouchable... you can only compare him to legendary yesteryear ATG's from now on..
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There is a very long thread, Here you go.

[PICTURES/VIDEOS] Jasprit Bumrah is the best fast-bowler in the world right now

Honestly so impressed with him.Sends down so many overs still doesnt encounter fatigue easily like snowflake bowlers from Eng,Aus.Very smart with his change of pace and Yorker specialist which many bowlers have forgotten about.Also plays all 3 formats and is equally good in them.I will say he is...
ppforum.pakpassion.net ppforum.pakpassion.net
 
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Bumrah equalled Asif/Amir in terms of bringing the great game into disrepute, no honour among the insect. He should willingly submit himself for a Test at Loughborough University. The Scum don’t want him to be exposed.
 
shamaan said:
Can you provide the results of the tests.
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What I meant by "tested" is that Bumrah's action is thoroughly reviewed before he steps onto the field. Do you really think match referees, umpires, or opposing teams would overlook an illegal action and allow someone to play unchecked? And that too, for so many years?

Regarding biomechanics, it's only relevant when a bowler's action is reported for being illegal. To date, no opposition team (including Pakistan) has ever reported Bumrah to the ICC. This clearly indicates that he bowls well within the ICC's rules and guidelines.

As for the criticism, there are always a few so-called cricket fans who believe they know more about ICC regulations than the ICC itself or experts like Ian Pont. Let them rant on social media; it neither affects Indian fans nor Bumrah in any way.
 
Croma said:
isn't there any thread just about Bumrah and ones without any comparisons to any current bowler?... someone please direct me to that thread.. thanks..

seriously in contemporary cricket... he is untouchable... you can only compare him to legendary yesteryear ATG's from now on..
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Some Austrlaians have already declared he is the ATG.
 
kron said:
Real question is 125 kmph trundler asif better than shami? I don't think so. Shami is a much better bowler than this steroid abusing trundler fodder

@spastic619
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Asif was effective on surfaces that offered some seam movement. On abrasive docile surfaces he was more like a part timer.
 
Shafikapeo said:
What I meant by "tested" is that Bumrah's action is thoroughly reviewed before he steps onto the field. Do you really think match referees, umpires, or opposing teams would overlook an illegal action and allow someone to play unchecked? And that too, for so many years?

Regarding biomechanics, it's only relevant when a bowler's action is reported for being illegal. To date, no opposition team (including Pakistan) has ever reported Bumrah to the ICC. This clearly indicates that he bowls well within the ICC's rules and guidelines.

As for the criticism, there are always a few so-called cricket fans who believe they know more about ICC regulations than the ICC itself or experts like Ian Pont. Let them rant on social media; it neither affects Indian fans nor Bumrah in any way.
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That is not called tested.
 
kron said:
Not jut best. Best Asian bowler ever all formats
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LOL at ever.

I can name at least 5 all-time Asian pacers who are all better than Bumrah.

Bumrah also needs to get tested to prove there is no chucking. Bumrah also needs to get at least 250 Test wickets.
 
sweep_shot said:
LOL at ever.

I can name at least 5 all-time Asian pacers who are all better than Bumrah.

Bumrah also needs to get tested to prove there is no chucking. Bumrah also needs to get at least 250 Test wickets.
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Literally just wasim bhai.
Commies agree. Infact wasim himself says he is better.
 
These comparisons have no end... really... This thing never ends.

Bumrah is a great bowler but there are people who rate asif very high as well.. This is cricket, every day is a new day.
 
Pakistani and BD fans don’t get to decide whether Bumrah is an ATG or not. It is his performance that determines his stature.

Bumrah has 181 wickets in Tests at average of 20 but most of those wickets have come vs three really top oppositions - Aus, Eng, SA and he has been player of match or series in a number of those games. The impact is phenomenal, there is simply no comparison of Bumrah with Akhtar, Asif or anyone else who has less than 200 test wickets in the entire history of the game.

Purely on impact, he is the league of top tier bowlers but longevity also matters and he would need 300 wickets to be rated among top 10 test bowlers of all time. But where he stands now, he is definitely a top 3 Asian bowler of all time and arguably a top 2 Asian all format bowler because Waqar’s record is poor in World Cups and vs top opponents in Test cricket. His skill sets are also no match to Bumrah who is in a league of his own altogether in terms of impact.
 
Lol at Asif and Amir.... :ROFLMAO:


Bumrah's performance post injury has landed him in comparisons with the ATGs of fast bowling history and Pakistanis here are comparing him to some match fixer nobodies. These guys never fail to amuse me.
 
Mesozoic said:
Lol at Asif and Amir.... :ROFLMAO:


Bumrah's performance post injury has landed him in comparisons with the ATGs of fast bowling history and Pakistanis here are comparing him to some match fixer nobodies. These guys never fail to amuse me.
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Imran and Wasim as the 2 fast bowlers from Asia whom I'd rate higher as of now, and that's because of the longevity factor. Imran has 362 Test wickets, while Wasim has 414 Test wickets. That's a hell of a lot more than what Bumrah has currently.

It's a joke to compare Waqar with him. The guy has an average of more than 40 at an SR of more than 80 in Australia.​
 
This was a debate 4 years ago.

2 years ago, it got narrowed down to Bumrah vs Wasim, Waqar as a Top 10 bowler of all time

Today, it’s narrowed down further to Bumrah vs Malcolm Marshal for #1 greatest fast bowler ever

I know this will make many people salty but it’s the reality of the world
 
Ab Fan said:
Pakistani and BD fans don’t get to decide whether Bumrah is an ATG or not. It is his performance that determines his stature.

Bumrah has 181 wickets in Tests at average of 20 but most of those wickets have come vs three really top oppositions - Aus, Eng, SA and he has been player of match or series in a number of those games. The impact is phenomenal, there is simply no comparison of Bumrah with Akhtar, Asif or anyone else who has less than 200 test wickets in the entire history of the game.

Purely on impact, he is the league of top tier bowlers but longevity also matters and he would need 300 wickets to be rated among top 10 test bowlers of all time. But where he stands now, he is definitely a top 3 Asian bowler of all time and arguably a top 2 Asian all format bowler because Waqar’s record is poor in World Cups and vs top opponents in Test cricket. His skill sets are also no match to Bumrah who is in a league of his own altogether in terms of impact.
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I understand the excitement from Indians about finally having a fast bowler like Bumrah among the world’s elite, but let’s not overstate it. Test cricket today lacks the technical depth it once had, and this Australian batting lineup is particularly weak—Rauf exposed them as well. Compared to the 90s and 2000s, batting techniques across Australia, England, South Africa, West Indies, Pakistan, and even India have declined. Bumrah wouldn’t have had the same success against the likes of Hayden, Langer, Slater, Taylor, the Waugh brothers, Ponting, Gilchrist, Hussey, and others from that golden era.
 
Farabi said:
I understand the excitement from Indians about finally having a fast bowler like Bumrah among the world’s elite, but let’s not overstate it. Test cricket today lacks the technical depth it once had, and this Australian batting lineup is particularly weak—Rauf exposed them as well. Compared to the 90s and 2000s, batting techniques across Australia, England, South Africa, West Indies, Pakistan, and even India have declined. Bumrah wouldn’t have had the same success against the likes of Hayden, Langer, Slater, Taylor, the Waugh brothers, Ponting, Gilchrist, Hussey, and others from that golden era.
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You can put ifs and buts for anyone. What we are seeing today is truly phenomenal.
 
Ab Fan said:
Bumrah has 181 wickets in Tests at average of 20 but most of those wickets have come vs three really top oppositions - Aus, Eng, SA and he has been player of match or series in a number of those games.
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Fun stats: In test wins in Aus, Eng, SA

Wasim + Waqar - 8 tests won and three 5-fers in wins combined
Bumrah - 10 test won with five 5-fers in wins


Right now, Bumrah test wins/5-fers in wins > Wasim+Waqar combined in Aus/Eng/SA.
A few more, Bumrah test wins/5-fers in wins > IK+Wasim+Waqar combined in Aus/Eng/SA.

Before some one jumps at me for indicating Bumrah is same as those three combined, I am not saying that. Simply showing how huge impact Bumrah has had in a relatively short career.
 
BouncerGuy said:
These comparisons have no end... really... This thing never ends.

Bumrah is a great bowler but there are people who rate asif very high as well.. This is cricket, every day is a new day.
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People also rated Ahmed Shezad over Kohli and Imran Nazir over Sehwag.

Having an opinion costs nothing. But cricketing consensus is what decides who was better along with the stats.

Now there are 3 formats and along with leagues played compared to previous generations. So, obviously, volume in a single format declines.

People questioned Bumrah over his ICC WC performances. He did very well in WC2023 ODI and singlehandedly won us WT2024 T20. The distance is so far that, no one is even close to him in economy.

One can understand the discussion with Wasim comparisons and even Imran. Wasim is someone who is widely respected across cricket community. But the same stature is not there for Waqar, though his ardent fans may disagree.

But comparisons with Asif is ridiculous to the least. He doesnt have the pace or toe crushing Yorkers to his arsenal and performing in swing friendly England is the bar these days? If so, is Anderson greater than Wasim?
 
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Buffet said:
Fun stats: In test wins in Aus, Eng, SA

Wasim + Waqar - 8 tests won and three 5-fers in wins combined
Bumrah - 10 test won with five 5-fers in wins


Right now, Bumrah test wins/5-fers in wins > Wasim+Waqar combined in Aus/Eng/SA.
A few more, Bumrah test wins/5-fers in wins > IK+Wasim+Waqar combined in Aus/Eng/SA.

Before some one jumps at me for indicating Bumrah is same as those three combined, I am not saying that. Simply showing how huge impact Bumrah has had in a relatively short career.
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@mb3407
Bumrah is undoubtedly an elite bowler based on current form, but I still rate Rabada slightly higher based on skills, but overall stature Starc has had the most impact.

It's a lack of cricketing awareness to compare today's Test batting standards with those of the 90s and 2000s when they were far superior. Can anyone with a straight face compare this Australian lineups stacked with legends like Slater, Hayden, Langer, Taylor, Gilchrist, and Ponting and many many more?

Modern batting techniques have evolved to meet the demands of the T20 game, and the quality of fast bowling in Test cricket has declined significantly over time.
 
Farabi said:
Compared to the 90s and 2000s, batting techniques across Australia, England, South Africa, West Indies, Pakistan, and even India have declined.
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Some one can argue that pacers got virtually free wickets in earlier era, now they have to fight for even batsmen batting at 8-11. Basically, pacers could collect lots of cheap wickets in past eras due to tails being walking wickets.

It's not an opinion.

Entire 90s: 8-11 batting positions had 10 tons
Last 10 years : 8-11 batting positions had 21 tons

Minnows are not involved in these stats. Only top 8 test playing nations.
 
Bumrah’s action is a product of hyperextension similar to Shoaib. Everyone can hyperextend their elbow to a degree but some people (like him and Akhtar) are just born with more flexible elbow joints.

The ICC laws govern conventional bending and straightening of the elbow joint but not hyperextension which is why those two bowlers technically have legal actions. There was a big paper done on this with Akhtar by some uni in Melbourne iirc and there’s a cool photo of Akhtar just putting his hand on the table and bending his arm the wrong way by like 40 degrees. Bumrah can probably do the same. Don’t why people still get butthurt about this.

As for the topic of Bumrah vs. Asif and Amir, at the end of the day results and impact matter and Bumrah has had more of that than Asif for sure. Over the next few years, his achievements will also probably outweigh Amir’s CT17 final heroics and therefore he’ll be remembered as the better bowler.
 
Farabi said:
@mb3407
Bumrah is undoubtedly an elite bowler based on current form, but I still rate Rabada slightly higher based on skills, but overall stature Starc has had the most impact.

It's a lack of cricketing awareness to compare today's Test batting standards with those of the 90s and 2000s when they were far superior. Can anyone with a straight face compare this Australian lineups stacked with legends like Slater, Hayden, Langer, Taylor, Gilchrist, and Ponting and many many more?

Modern batting techniques have evolved to meet the demands of the T20 game, and the quality of fast bowling in Test cricket has declined significantly over time.
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Nothing to suggest Bumrah won't succeed against them. Its just ifs.
 
Farabi said:
@mb3407
Bumrah is undoubtedly an elite bowler based on current form, but I still rate Rabada slightly higher based on skills, but overall stature Starc has had the most impact.

It's a lack of cricketing awareness to compare today's Test batting standards with those of the 90s and 2000s when they were far superior. Can anyone with a straight face compare this Australian lineups stacked with legends like Slater, Hayden, Langer, Taylor, Gilchrist, and Ponting and many many more?

Modern batting techniques have evolved to meet the demands of the T20 game, and the quality of fast bowling in Test cricket has declined significantly over time.
Click to expand...
Starc and impact in Tests. Nobody can make a straight argument for that.
 
Farabi said:
@mb3407
Bumrah is undoubtedly an elite bowler based on current form, but I still rate Rabada slightly higher based on skills, but overall stature Starc has had the most impact.
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Rabada? He has been useless in Asia.

Rabada1.jpg
 
Farabi said:
Rauf exposed them as well
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Not the same thing, my brother in denial.


Until Rauf picks up a match winning Test fifer against full strength Australia , it's not the same thing. Can't believe you even dared to clown yourselves with that comparison.
 
Farabi said:
Bumrah is undoubtedly an elite bowler based on current form, but I still rate Rabada slightly higher based on skills, but overall stature Starc has had the most impact.
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Top 5 pacers in the last 50 years in impact when playing away:
1732862322264.png
 
Buffet said:
Some one can argue that pacers got virtually free wickets in earlier era, now they have to fight for even batsmen batting at 8-11. Basically, pacers could collect lots of cheap wickets in past eras due to tails being walking wickets.

It's not an opinion.

Entire 90s: 8-11 batting positions had 10 tons
Last 10 years : 8-11 batting positions had 21 tons

Minnows are not involved in these stats. Only top 8 test playing nations.
Click to expand...

The logic usually goes like this..

90s bowlers were superior to current bowlers because they used to bowl to ATG batters.

And 90s batters were superior to current batters because they used to face ATG bowlers..

Like what even is that logic? 🤡
 
Mesozoic said:
Not the same thing, my brother in denial.


Until Rauf picks up a match winning Test fifer against full strength Australia , it's not the same thing. Can't believe you even dared to clown yourselves with that comparison.
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i said EVEN Rauf exposed this Australian team. I never said Rauf is comparable to Bumrah in test cricket. That would be ludicrous to compare Rauf who’s never even played 1 full test match.
 
mb3407 said:
If anything batting got easier nowadays. Makes him so much more impressive
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This isn’t true. While the offensive skills have enhanced, the defensive skills have declined a lot. Test batting standards just simply aren’t the same.
 
Till a few years back, only comparable bowler to Bumrah playing with him was cummins. He has left Cummins behind now. Cummins will go down as the top 5 pacers from Aus and he is that good.
 
I am not sure if the past bowlers will succeed as much with so much video analysis and scrutiny on field( not just Pakistani bowlers so don't jump on me)
 
Farabi said:
This isn’t true. While the offensive skills have enhanced, the defensive skills have declined a lot. Test batting standards just simply aren’t the same.
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Agree with that, but it has cancelled each other specially when you account for the fact that 8-11 batsmen have started scoring runs more often. That's why runs per wicket has not changed from 90s vs last 10 years.

I mean it's not easier for a bower to avg 25 per wicket now vs 90s despite decline of defensive skills of batsmen. I am not even sure that it has declined universally because some time pitches are harder and provide more movements.
 
Mesozoic said:
The logic usually goes like this..

90s bowlers were superior to current bowlers because they used to bowl to ATG batters.

And 90s batters were superior to current batters because they used to face ATG bowlers..

Like what even is that logic? 🤡
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Defensive skills in test batting have declined specifically. How many 300+ scored, let alone 350+ have you seen. How many batters in India and other countries have batters with 50+ tests and 50+ average?
 
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Farabi said:
This isn’t true. While the offensive skills have enhanced, the defensive skills have declined a lot. Test batting standards just simply aren’t the same.
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Among the top teams the standards are right there. Its also not something that can be measured or verified. But the players today are surely much more fit and stronger. That is verifiable
 
Buffet said:
Till a few years back, only comparable bowler to Bumrah playing with him was cummins. He has left Cummins behind now. Cummins will go down as the top 5 pacers from Aus and he is that good.
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Bumrah is the best all format bowler of this generation. But it's still too early to call him the best Test bowler of this generation.

Have to wait till their careers end. Longevity matters too.

Otherwise, we'd be talking about Akhtar being a Test bowler of the same calibre as Courtney Walsh because their averages are similar even Walsh was a far superior Test bowler .
 
mb3407 said:
Among the top teams the standards are right there. Its also not something that can be measured or verified. But the players today are surely much more fit and stronger. That is verifiable
Click to expand...
You clearly have no idea what you’re talking about and you very likely never watched cricket before 2010.
 
Farabi said:
This isn’t true. While the offensive skills have enhanced, the defensive skills have declined a lot. Test batting standards just simply aren’t the same.
Click to expand...

There is zero evidence to support this except narrative.

Batting conditions against the new ball have seldom been tougher than it has been recently . At least for the last 18 years, the last 4 years have seen exceptionally tough batting conditions.
 
By the time Bumrah retires , he would have left Steyn behind him and become the greatest fast bowler to have debuted in the 21st century (all formats).
 
Farabi said:
I mean Rauf exposed them across 3 games that too in white ball.
This Australian batting line up is the weakest defense wise I have ever seen in my living memory. Even Aussie commentators were disturbed by it.
They’re the top notch when it comes to accelerating on flat pitches and would tear apart Rauf on a road.
Click to expand...
Indian bowling humiliated them in final. You know the hero? Praveen kumar lol
 
Nikhil_cric said:
There is zero evidence to support this except narrative.

Batting conditions against the new ball have seldom been tougher than it has been recently . At least for the last 18 years, the last 4 years have seen exceptionally tough batting conditions.
Click to expand...
I rest my case. You are right.
This Australian batting line up has the defensive technique of the great Aussie line ups of the past. As does SA and England.
 
There was only once Australia in 2000s had to face sustained quality attack which was in 2005 against England. All the other times every team had 1 or 2 good bowlers. If you go through the main bowlers remaining were pie chuckers. Now you have every team having 4 quality bowlers. There is no way that line up would survive against Ashwin/Jadeja with DRS. Check Ponting's average in India


1996 - 13.50
1997/98 - 21.00
2000/01 - 3.40 one of the worst
2004/05 - 11.50
2008/09 - 38.00
2010/11 - 56.00

1 century in 6 tours. 14 tests.
 
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