Mesozoic
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Barring Smith and Labu (for the first two games) , that was a completely different batting order. You're being way too desperate now.
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Is Jasprit Bumrah a better bowler than Mohammad Asif and Mohammad Amir?
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Barring Smith and Labu (for the first two games) , that was a completely different batting order. You're being way too desperate now.
jnaveen1980
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Also it is ODI. Gillespie even complained about Aussies not showing any interest in the series lol I saw that. They were uber casual in that series.
Nikhil_cric
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You don't have a case in the first place. The levels of seam movement in the last 4 years have increased tremendously. There is no defence that will work when you have a high percentage of balls seaming that much in the first 30 overs.
I don’t get what your point is? Are you saying this Australian batting is comparable to the Aussie batting lineups from the past?
Didn’t Shamar Joseph completely blow these guys away recently. Think he had 13 wickets at 17 and even help WI win a test match. Should I start believing Shamar Joseph is all time great too
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Please do not derail the thread
Nikhil_cric
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This is not about Bumrah at all.Okay. Jasprit Bumrah is the best fast bowler ever!
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I think it's wrong to mix formats to judge if Aus batsmen are struggling in their home grounds.
Aus batting unit avg in Aus in last 8 years collectively against all teams except India - 45 runs per wicket.
Sure, current Aus is not an ATG batting side who had skills to bat well in all conditions, but at home they are as good as any side. Proof is 45 runs per wicket. Let's not start calling Aus home batting weak in the last 8 years just because Bumrah has been blowing them apart.
Another quick look to see Aus top order performance in Aus in the last 8 years after Bumrah debuted.
Aus top order in Aus against all oppositions in the last 8 year excluding India
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If you remove minnows and single test sample in one country for both,
Walsh had away avg of below 25
Akhtar had away average of 33
No one can confuse them for being in the same class.
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Bumrah has more away wickets than any pacers in the last 10 years. Has more 5-fers away and won more games away. At home he is averaging around 50 wickets at avg of 17.
Gap is just too wide. I will always take Marshall level 250 wickets versus Anderson level 700 wickets. Longevity is only important to make sure that sample size is large enough.
Why 8 years? Try 3. Also look at best bowlers in those 3 years in Aus as well for comparison.
I understand your point about not mixing formats. Again, I wasn’t comparing Rauf with Bumrah. I was just pointing out that it’s relatively rare/strange for Australians to fold across several games in front of a bowler like Rauf, who is frankly just a good bowler not even a great bowler. Get it wasn’t the same batting unit as Tests but still.
In any case, no body said Bumrah isn’t an elite bowler, but I don’t agree that he’s the greatest ever with just 187 wickets to his name so far. His exploits in Australia are impressive but not mind bending. This Australian batting line up was ready for the taking, and kudos to Bumrah, but also kudos to Shamar Joseph to get 13 wickets @ 17 in 2 test. These guys made Khurram Shahzad and Mir Hamza look elite as well.
Nikhil_cric
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I meant longevity at a similar level of performance.
Which is why I take McGrath over Marshall.
Bumrah has a long way to go considering even Rabada and Cummins are ahead of him in teens if wickets taken
Mesozoic
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I never even said anything about the past Aussie batting lineups. Now tell me what was your point? The batting lineups Haris Rauf "exposed" were the same ones that play Tests for Australia?
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WOW! You all are so passionate that you all create strawman after strawman!
I can understand how it feels like to have an elite fast bowler.
One back injury and he will be on the wayside and 2 years later your own fans will be comparing him to Irfan Pathan.
Again, never compared Bumrah to Shamar. I simply said that Shamar exposed this batting line up as well. This is one of the weakest test batting line ups I have seen Aus field since 30 years.
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Mesozoic
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Whenever any Indian player or as a team, we do well in Australia - "oH bUT tHey'Re nOT aS gOoD aS tHe gOaT aUsSiE tEaM 
"..
Oh Bhai who is saying they are? They're still a top 2 side in Test cricket right now and are the biggest Challengers to India in world cricket. So ofcourse performances against them , particularly away from home do matter for us Indian fans. Don't know why posters here lose their marbles and start throwing these lame stranman arguments at us only to get embarassed.
"..Oh Bhai who is saying they are? They're still a top 2 side in Test cricket right now and are the biggest Challengers to India in world cricket. So ofcourse performances against them , particularly away from home do matter for us Indian fans. Don't know why posters here lose their marbles and start throwing these lame stranman arguments at us only to get embarassed.
They wouldn't have had success in drs era. Lot harder now to survive. 90s era favoured bowlers anyway. Lot of those batsmen would struggle against modern quicks. Game has evolved.
You’re obviously jumping in and speaking out of context. The comparison was being done by some posters here that Bumrah is the best ever bowler, best thing since sliced bread, better than Akram and Khan combined, which naturally brings the comparison with batting line up of Aus of that era as well.Whenever any Indian player or as a team, we do well in Australia - "oH bUT tHey'Re nOT aS gOoD aS tHe gOaT aUsSiE tEaM
Oh Bhai who is saying they are? They're still a top 2 side in Test cricket right now and are the biggest Challengers to India in world cricket. So ofcourse performances against them , particularly away from home do matter for us Indian fans. Don't know why posters here lose their marbles and start throwing these lame stranman arguments at us only to get embarassed.
How many batters today in Indian and Aussie team average 50+ in 50+ games. How many did 10 years ago, and how many did 20 years ago?
Mesozoic
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Pakistanis have been wishing this for 8 years now. World doesn't work on your whims. Or else you'd have 12 World cups by now and India would have ceased to exist.
Ab Fan
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discussion is about Indian pacers vs Pakistani pacers and you are trying to portray that Bumrah is bowling to some extremely mediocre Australian batters but he has bowled to Steve Smith who is arguably one of the best test batsman of all time.
Moreover, no fast bowler achieved enough success anyways against that ATG Australian lineup which you are talking about. Donald and Pollock have poor record there while Waqar and Akhtar have embarrassing record in Australia. So, bringing the Australian lineup of late 90s and 2000s seems more of a desperation from your end. That has got nothing to do with Bumrah here.
The current Australian test side is still very good and have achieved success against rest of the opponents in this era only. The only reason they are grounded is because Indian team of this generation has successful managed to do that by beating them twice in two tours of Australia and a lot of that credit goes to Bumrah who is quite comfortably the best bowler of this generation at the moment.
Just because I don’t agree that Bumrah is better than Akram, it is not hate. You think Pakistanis hate Indians, which distorts your judgement and prevent you from responding locally rather than emotionally.
I don’t hate Indians nor do I downplay their achievements. If had seen my posts, you would have known that.
In any case, injuries are part and parcel of a test fast bowler. For example, Waqar before and after his back injury are 2 different fast bowlers. But when you are comparing the numbers, are you comparing pre injury? Or are you comparing with overall?
Are you accounting for injuries when you look at Akhtar’s record?
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Please stay on topic instead of trolling each other.
Ab Fan
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Unlike a Rabada who is again a great bowler of this era by all means, Bumrah’s bet to glory is if he performs and does well vs Australia and England in their backyard and he has done it with utmost ease. He doesn’t get the luxury of bowling to them on spicy South African pitches which are seamers paradise.
Imagine if his home games were there, he would have probably average around 16-17. Even the recent ongoing series vs Sri Lanka, it is so easy to run through these batting lineups in those conditions. But the same Rabada struggles in India and subcontinent. That’s what makes Bumrah so special. His ability to deliver in all conditions home or away is what makes him a true great of the game.
Imagine if his home games were there, he would have probably average around 16-17. Even the recent ongoing series vs Sri Lanka, it is so easy to run through these batting lineups in those conditions. But the same Rabada struggles in India and subcontinent. That’s what makes Bumrah so special. His ability to deliver in all conditions home or away is what makes him a true great of the game.
First of all, I already said several times that Bumrah is one of the 2-3 elite fast bowlers on current form. India made Tendulkar a god, but in Pakistan he was still a GOAT NOT a god. We don’t have to agree with this dude. I really think Indians need to calm down and stop attacking people personally if they don’t agree with Bumrah’s status as the greatest fast bowler ever. I don’t agree and that doesn’t mean I hate Indians or downplay their achievements lolll
Second, Aussie all time team entered the discussion, because a comparison was drawn with Akram and Waqar, and it was mentioned that Bumrah’s performance is superior in Australia. You’re speaking completely out of context.
I thought this is the topic. The topic is comparing Bumrah with Pakistani fast bowlers, and that’s what we are discussing.
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This is for all..not just for you and any other specific person.
Lmao
Bumrah
Shami peak
Ishu/umesh
Ash
Jadeja
You kidding me. All those tullas of 90s and 2000 would get obliterated.
Ab Fan
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You are trying to downplay the achievement of Bumrah by downplaying the current Australian team which has been a top side themselves in this era.
A lot of greats in this era have failed or didn’t perform well in Australia and that includes the likes of Anderson, Boult and even Steyn or Rabada who average in late 20s vs a relatively weaker Aussie side to what it was in 90s. Bumrah has been in a different league to them. You can only play what is infront of him and Australia and England are certainly top teams in Bumrah’s era. Bumrah has been superb in those countries.
Just because he didn’t bowled to the Australian side of 90s, it doesn’t make this team any weak. Hadlee had bowled to even weaker Australian lineup in 80s which was carried by Border only. But that doesn’t mean we demean his greatness.
It could be argued that Imran or Wasim are not great bowlers because they didn’t bowled to Indian batters of 2000s or a strong Indian team in India in Kohli’s era so they are not great bowlers. We can play this trick just like you. That won’t mean much.
A great bowler by definition is the one who does well in most conditions and perform well vs top teams. Bumrah has done it with utmost ease and that too vs top teams in their den and over multiple series. That’s the sign of greatness, he would just need to continue this for few more years and he will be in league of top 10 fast bowlers of all time because he has shown the world that he is truly a special bowler.
Lara, Tendulkar, Ponting, Waugh brothers were all averaging 50+ in the 90s.
Taylor, Slater, Langer were all averaging mid 40s as openers, which is still pretty rare to see.
Aussie batting strength grew even stronger into 2000s
Smith kohli kane root were all averaging 50 plus at one point too
Only kohli fizzles out.
Pietersen came close post 2010
Openers are struggling cause bowling quality is much higher now.
or defensive technique in batting is much worse? Or are you saying T20s and flat wickets didn’t impact batting techniques?
Ab Fan
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Also bumrah doesn't get to stat pad at home due to crappy pitches that are only conducive to spin
Again you are speaking out of context. Like I said, the comparison was drawn with bowlers of that era, which naturally drew in comparison of the batting of that era in the same countries too. I’ve attached it.
India is 1 of the 2 best teams in the world along with Aus. Their test series victories in Aus are phenomenal and Bumrah is an elite fast bowler.
This doesn’t make him the best ever, and better than Akram. I don’t have to agree with that, and no amount of trolling by Indians will scare me into accepting this and I don’t care about personal attacks that I hate Indians and don’t want to accept their achievements. Simply not true.
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Ab Fan
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You were the one who first quoted me. I could care least of who is this “someone” here. Fact though is Bumrah is comparable to great bowlers of past era until of course you consider them God in which case you will obviously love to stay in delusion of past greats.
T20 cricket certainly impacts defensive technique but what’s the point here? Put Wasim and Waqar in this era and they will also play t20s and their bowling will become more white ball oriented.
One thing though, Reverse swing won’t be easy in this era as it was in 90s when there were no cameras, less social media, no professionalism. You were allowed to do whatever you feel correct to take the advantage. I am not sure Waqar would have done anything extraordinary in this era. His record anyways is inflated via bullying weak batting. He should feel lucky to be rated as ATG because he was lucky to play in that era. Otherwise Pakistan suddenly since turn of millennium won’t have stopped producing a 200 wicket pacer let alone at avg of 25 or less.
Ab Fan
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I don’t think any sane poster is claiming that Bumrah is better than Wasim. Only trolls will claim that and you can certainly attack or punish them. I won’t come in your way.
But aggressive shot making ability, chasing bigger targets, going for the win instead of playing for draw. All these things have changed. No longer is even 300 plus targets safe given the number of chases we have seen.
Even when gabba happened, pitch deteriorated but can't orchestrated a comeback.
Teams are focused moreso on going for the win rather than just play defensive cricket. Attitude has changed.
Reverse sweeps, ramp shots, scoops etc are utilised by many batsmen to counter spin.
Also 6 hitting has become easier as a lot of emphasis is on power hitting.
we can shake hands on that
Smbhayi
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I don't know what hyperextention or whatever that is but to naked eye his bend is backward.. If you see otherwise you should check your eyes.
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The whole thread has been derailed by Talking about batters comparisons here.
Thread was about Bumrah but here we have posters, trying to justify averages of batters...GREAT
Thread was about Bumrah but here we have posters, trying to justify averages of batters...GREAT
RyanRyan10
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Bumrah is light years ahead of Amir, Asif and even Akhtar. We can have a separate thread of comparing him with Waqar.
mominsaigol
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Bro you do realise that one key topic for comparing bowlers is to also compare them to the batters they have bowled against?
Yes this thread is stupid because bumrah is light years ahead of even prime 2000 Amir.
However in a separate thread if comparisons are made for wasim vs bumrah or mcgrath vs bumrah or whatever then batters also need to be compared
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Bumrah was nowhere and the main thing that took over the topic was batters LOL
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Aus at home have averaged 40 runs per wicket against all oppositions excluding India in the last 3 years. Seems bad to you? Bumrah debuted 8 years ago and he has been blowing them since then and not just last 3 years that's why I was picking last 8 years.
I also don't think that he is the greatest ever test bowler as well. You can't be with 180 odd test wickets. I only think that he is best test bowler of his genration and one of the best test in history. Usually I will wait for more tests, but he has bowled more match changing spells in tough tours than pretty much all bowlers in history bar 3-4 bowlers.
Joseph, Khurram Eh, It's illogical to point out 1-2 spells by any pacers, if we go by that kind of logic,
Caddick 94/7
Hogart 109/7
Agarkar 41/6
Gaugh 49/6
And many more all during ATG Aus team in Aus. Some one could have written the same thing you are writing right now using these spells to deduce that great Aus team was weak at home. You don't judge a batting line up by citing 1-2 spells.
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But no other current pacer has similar level of performance so longevity shouldn't be a factor.
Fair enough with preferring McGrath over Marshall. I have them other way around because Marshall had enough wickets and could run through batting line up in all conditions. McGrath lacked the skills to run through batting line up in all conditions and that's why he has just 1 5-fers in Asia despite playing 20 tests. Imagine if an Asian bowler or batsman with single 5-fers outside Asia or single ton outside Asia. Having said that, I rate both of them as the top 3 test bowlers.
Coming back to current generation, Cummins is far behind and Rabada is even more behind when it comes to doing well away. Gap is like bowler picking 20 runs per wickets against top teams vs others doing 25-28 runs agaisnt top teams. If they were anywhere in the same range, it would be fair to look at number of wickets like you did for McGrath and Marshall. McGrath and Marshall had somewhat comaparable runs per wickets when playing away. That's why I said, Bumrah is the best test pacer of his generation.
As of right, now Bumrah is best pacer of his genratiion in each format individually. One of the greats of the game given what he has done in all formats with 400-500 international wickets. Now, where he ends up in entire history in test format, that has to wait till he finishes his career. If he ends up with 250-275 tests wickets with same impact and 600 plus international wickets then he goes down as the top 10 test bowler and best all format bowler in history for me.
Nikhil_cric
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You can't judge level of performance when he is at his peak. Let them all retire and then we can sort out where Cummins, Rabada and Bumrah stand as Test bowlers specifically.
2 years ago, it looked like Cummins was the best bowler in the world before he started losing his pace.
No guarantee that Bumrah won't decline suddenly and end up with worse overall numbers than both of them.
However, it is almost certain that he will end up as the best all format bowler of his generation
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I am not extrapolating current trend and saying that Bumrah is best test pacer of his generation. Bumrah, Rabada and Cummins have played 25-30 away tests so far and look at the gap, gap is just too huge after 25-30 tests. How much decline Bumrah has to have and how much Rabada/Cummins have to get better to bridge this gap?
Cummins/Rabada can double their 5-fers and still won't catch Bumrah tally of away 5-fers, he is that far ahead right now. Away avg difference is 6 runs right now.
I get the point about judging players after they are done playing, but sometime when gap is just too big, you can say that player is the best test pacer in his generation and not have to wait till player retires. I am sure Bumrah won't keep doing what he has done in the first 41 tests so far for too long. If he does then we are talking about Marshall, but current generation has Cummins and Rabada. Rabada does not even have a good record where pitch is not assiting, so I don't see him in contention. Only Cummins. He has outbowled or matched Rabada in SA and Cummins in Aus depsite it's being alien conditions for him.
Donald and Steyn both ended their career with 32 away tests. Lillee ended his test career with 26 away tests.
In entire history of cricket, we have 8-10 pacers above 50 away tests. How many tests you need to see in 3 format era before you can say it comfortably that sample size is large enough to make a call. I am not talking about ranking in all time list, that needs to wait, but just best of his genration. If you have had more impact in 40 tests than most playing in entire history had in 80 tests then do we really need to wait given we are in 3 format era? I don't think so.
Bumrah plays for India so he is not going to even play a lots of home games to boost his wicket tally. But he has around 50 wickets at avg of 17 so far. At max he can take it to 100 home wickets. Then 150 away wickets can take his tally to 250-275 test wickets. He does not have luxury of Aus/SA/Eng pacers to play and pick lots of wickets in home games given India had two gun spinners playing and turning tracks during his career.
I am not assuming that he will continue performing at current level at all. He will surely decline.
Although Pakistan’s inability to get 200+ wicket fast bowler has more to do with injury management and spot fixing sagas.
I am a huge fan of Waqar Younis and personally rate him higher than Wasim Akram. What Bumrah is doing now was pioneered by Waqar, who mastered high-speed yorkers and bouncers. At his peak, Waqar’s athleticism and 150+ pace were a sight to behold, earning admiration even from global icons like Usain Bolt, who credited him as an inspiration. Stories of his dominance are still discussed fondly, even by his contemporaries, including Indians. While some try to downplay Pakistani achievements by pointing to ball tampering, the impact and record of Waqar’s brilliance speaks for itself. Again, I don’t think you can compare Bumrah to the great Waqar yet.
Bumrah could be compared with Mohammad Asif as both have similar stats (wickets, average) in test cricket.
Mohammad Asif too was rated the best fast bowler by his contemporaries like Hashim Amla, Peterson and ABD, who have categorically said Asif was the best fast bowler they faced.
Aus team is very strong
I don't need an Anderson esque longevity to judge a players greatness. I don't rate a player like Anderson as he never had the same impact as bumrah
He can take 10000 wickets, it makes no difference if you can't help your team win.
Bumrah has helped India win so many games in sena and has almost played the same amount of away games in sena as wasim or waqar did.
fear factor, impact and how many games you help your team win plus the ability to maintain SUV 25 average is key for me to rate a player.
Bumrah fits the bill in all aspects. Also bumrah doesn't get to stat pad at home too
If you are discounting ash and jaddu's home performances due to pitches then same rule should apply to sena bowlers.
Bumrah already has left behind waqar etc. Only wasim is marginally ahead.
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Are we talking about the same Waqar?
RECORD :
Waqar's record outside home against non-minnows: Avg 27-28
IMPACT:
Waqar had very little impact against good teams no matter where game was played.
Home and away combined a grand total of 3 5-fers in win against Aus, SA, Eng, WI, Ind
The three eminent fast bowlers of current era are Bumrah, Cummins and Rabada.
Ability to blow teams away: Bumrah is on song the deadliest of the three over a hot spell. Rabada marginally second. Cummins distant third.
Skills : Bumrah has wider variety (slower offcutter, reverse, bouncer) than Rabada or Cummins. Cummins has a good offcutter and very good target bouncer. Rabada is distant third with limited toolbag. All 3 are similar level in executing wobble seam.
Length execution: Cummins hammers good length more accurately than anyone and Rabada gets most disconcerting bounce off a length. Thy are classic hit the sticker, kiss the gloves bowlers. Bumrah doesn't have the level of control or kick off pitch of these two but he is fairly accurate and his specialty is skid off wkt which gives him better lbw chances than others
Bumrah also lacks the home condition support of a Rabada or the brilliant backup that Cummins has (Hazelwood, Starc). In all matches Bumrah is expected to be the difference maker which is a hell of a burden. He does not have the option to slip into 3rd seamer role and do a holding job on a bad rhythm day.
All in all, he is the leading pace bowler of his era and will comfortably hold his own amongst leading lights of any other era too.
Ability to blow teams away: Bumrah is on song the deadliest of the three over a hot spell. Rabada marginally second. Cummins distant third.
Skills : Bumrah has wider variety (slower offcutter, reverse, bouncer) than Rabada or Cummins. Cummins has a good offcutter and very good target bouncer. Rabada is distant third with limited toolbag. All 3 are similar level in executing wobble seam.
Length execution: Cummins hammers good length more accurately than anyone and Rabada gets most disconcerting bounce off a length. Thy are classic hit the sticker, kiss the gloves bowlers. Bumrah doesn't have the level of control or kick off pitch of these two but he is fairly accurate and his specialty is skid off wkt which gives him better lbw chances than others
Bumrah also lacks the home condition support of a Rabada or the brilliant backup that Cummins has (Hazelwood, Starc). In all matches Bumrah is expected to be the difference maker which is a hell of a burden. He does not have the option to slip into 3rd seamer role and do a holding job on a bad rhythm day.
All in all, he is the leading pace bowler of his era and will comfortably hold his own amongst leading lights of any other era too.
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Yah, I see the same as bolded. I mean if you have won a whole lot more than others, huge impact, fear factor and avg of sub 25 .. in his case avg of 20 currently.
Rest of discussion is academic.
Agreed bumrah is truly great
Imagine if this guy gets home conditions like aus or SA. He would average 17. He doesn't get to stat pad at home.
That's why Asian bowlers should be rated higher than sena ones.
Wasim is definitely up there. Not waqar though. He relies too much on Yorkers etc. Lacks the bounce.
And aus team is very strong. Anyone who says otherwise is delusional
Aus teamnpost 2015 that is
They had Warner at one point. Now that spot is weakened. That's about it
Still there is smith labu who averaged 60 until recent slump.
Marsh is a good player
So is green who is an elite top tier talent.
Head is a beast. On his day he can smash even mcgrath. Khawaja until recently was great himself. He is 37 now.
Plus their bowling has been elite since 2015
Only now age is somewhat catching up. 33 is not old. 35 plus sure. Not 33. Still in prime.
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Waqar is not even in the same ball park as top 25 bowlers when it comes to impact against good teams.
Test cricket had 6-8 teams for a long time. If you take Aus, SA, WI, Eng, Ind and Pak as six teams leaving out bottom two teams during his career then Waqar has 3 5-fers in win, just 3.
3 5-fers are not just away, it's home and away combined.
It's well known that he had very little impact when playing away against top 6 teams, but I was surprised to see him having very little impact even home and away combined.
Nonsense. Bumrah had shami umesh and ishant
Was the best pace attack from 2015 to 2022.
Only after 2 left or got old, we are in transition now. Shami will be back but older now.
Harshit is a good player
There is more to come. Prasidh and then kuldeep Sen when he returns.
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Last 10 years Aus at home - W/L 10 if you exclude Ind. Aus has lost just 3 home tests against everyone else in 10 years.
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Wasim, also had very little impact home and away. Wasim and Waqar, both have just 3 5-fers in win home and away combined when you look at top 6 teams during his playing days.
Impact wise, Bumrah is far ahead of Wasim as well. Wasim gets credit for skills not for impact. See below, Both Ws don't appear even in top 20 here and period is just their career. If you run this list for longer period, they won't appear in first page as well. Their impact was limited against the bottom 2 teams and minnows.
Look at Hadlee, Ambrose, Donald, Mcgrath etc... Anyone bringing that you need great team, pacers are supposed to win you test with decent team and you don't need great team. Look at Hadlee with 9 5-fers in win. No one will accuse NZ having a great team. In such a long career, after all longevity is talked for Wasim and Waqar, having just 3 5-fers in win against good teams.
I rate Wasim for skills but not for impact in test format. That's why I said earlier that if Bumrah wins 1-2 more tests in tough tours, I will put him ahead of Wasim. Remember, I am not saying about Bumrah taking 5-fers in home conditions and winning agsint WI/BD etc. I am saying if he bowls 2 more match changing spells in tough series, I will have no hesitation in rating him ahead of Wasim despite having less wickets. 350 wickets very very little impact is not better than 250 wickets with a huge impact.
Wasim at least had a balanced record with new ball/old ball skills so I have him ahead for now despite low impact.
Benefit of doubt compared to sena players should go to wasim bhai though. He never got to stat pad in SA or aus conditions where it's conducive to fast bowling. He had to bowl on crappy flat pindi pitches where he can only rely on reverse. Bowling on abrasive surfaces is a skill in itself. That's why I rate shami so high.
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Correct, and then Wasim has a good away record even if impact was low. Bowling in abrasive surface to blow out batting line up is a different skill.
Case in point, McGrath having just 1 5-fer in Asia. I don't think Ambrose had much impact in Asia.
Katwalindian
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Wasim bhai if played today On these SA wickets, he will blow away the likes of bavuma, bendigham, Kyle verryne in minutes. Sorry the batting quality is very low now days. Look at England pope, Crawley, bairstow all are average at best. So bumrah stat Pad a lot. His real test would be on indian wickets where shami is better than him.
Shafikapeo
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Are you suggesting that, according to your book, any player who hasn't undergone a Biomechanics Test is automatically considered an illegal bowler? If that's the case, Pakistan has played against Bumrah. Why didn’t they report his action?
MHN1293
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How is this even a comparison. Amir and Asif have nothing over bumrah
No I didnt say that.I said he hasnt been tested.
Flat_Track_Bully
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Everytime I see a clip of Asif it really makes me think what could have been. We need to find another one like him asap.
Shafikapeo
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So does Shaheen Shah Afridi and Naseem Shah too, what's the point? If some board or Umpire or a Player has any objection about Bumrah's action then they are free to go and complaint about his action. Until Bumrah's action proven guilty, he can't be called a chucker.
I didnt call him a chucker for the second time.
Shafikapeo
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There are individuals here who are calling him chucker without any evidence. You can go through my previous posts to have better idea of my context.
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I would choose Bumrah over Amir but Mohammad Asif was ahead of his time. I m not saying he was better than Bumrah but he was just as effective for his team as Bumrah is today.
mominsaigol
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I m not saying he was better than Bumrah but he was just as effective for his team as Bumrah is today.
So you're saying that their equal? Anyway the undisputed goat is and always will be Mcgrath.
Bumrah isn't even boot licking distance of him. Bumrah would have gotten the exact same treatment by pointing, Sachin and many others that 2019 England gave to him.
He's very lucky that he gets to bowl to toothless batters and the toughest batsmen he's ever faced is an aged Steve smith at the end of his rope. I'm glad smith neutralised him in BGT as soon as he swapped back to his 2015 stance.
Mcgrath owned Sachin, Dravid, Kallis, Lara and so many others.
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McGrath was no doubt a wonderful bowler but he wasn't as effective in the death overs as Bumrah. In fact Asif wasn't a death bowler either so I would give Bumrah the edge over both McGrath and Asif.
mominsaigol
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What? He literally has 4-8 against india bowling overs 1 to 10 and 40 to 50 against Sachin, ganguly, Dravid, laxman, and an all star atg Indian lineup.
You guys gotta stop looking at one offs such as that razzaq moment. Mcgrath getting smashed by razzaq once means nothing when bumrah got mauled by fakhar zaman once and got mauled by literally all of England not to mention getting mauled by Travis head over and over.
Devadwal
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Bumrah is best ever bowler to Play cricket.
#GOAT #Fact
#GOAT #Fact
mominsaigol
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When did bumrah get owned by England?
And modern era is much more batting friendly. Much more difficult for bowlers to excel
Bumrah is the best currently
But yes mcg is goat
Can I please ask why so much hype is given to M Asif. Yes he was a great bowler, had amazing skills but again he did not play enough to warrant a comparison with anyone. He bowled some great spells in in 23 Test career and yes he troubled India in that series and got their famed batting out but that doesn't qualify him to be a great or better than anyone who has had a longer career in Tests. If Asif had played 50+ Test matches and had taken 220+ Test wickets, I would gladly accept he is worth being considered among best bowlers in the world.
Even Umar Gul if I remember correctly bowled a similar spell against India in 2003 Lahore Test where he took wickets of Sachin, Rahul, Sehwag and Laxman. He wasn't hyped. off course he wasn't in the same class as Asif but again getting these players out in a spell cannot be used as a marker to make someone more than what they were/are.
Shane Bond played 18 Tests and took 87 wickets at a lower average and SR than Asif, no one even the Kiwis don't hype him that much. Everyone knows he was an amazing bowler who could have done great things for NZ but he did not. Same with Ryan Haris who has similar record to Asif, Aussies don't go gaga over him. He took 113 wickets, that's about it. Why do people appreciate longevity? There are countless bowlers who have done brilliantly over a short period of time but not everyone can do it over 50-100 Tests. When Bumrah was called a great by some Indian fans, the same people who are calling Asif this, Asif that on the forum said he needs to get to 300+ wickets to be talked among greats, then why is it different with Asif?
One of the reasons for hyping Asif up so much for Pakistan fans is because they haven't found anyone even close to him in 15 years after his ban. For NZ there has been Tim Southee, Neil Wagner, Boult etc. For Australia they got Cummins, Hazlewood, Starc but for Pakistan there has been none. I feel it is clutching at the straws to be frank. I am not saying Asif wasn't good, infact he was very skilful and had the potential to become great but that's about it.
Asif was an amazing bowler who could have been a great and that's about it. He should not be compared to anyone including Bumrah. His career ended due to his own doing unlike Ryan Haris & Shane Bond who lost out due to injuries. There are lots of bowlers who played 20 odd Test matches and have similar records to Asif in Tests but none of them get hyped like the latter.
Even Umar Gul if I remember correctly bowled a similar spell against India in 2003 Lahore Test where he took wickets of Sachin, Rahul, Sehwag and Laxman. He wasn't hyped. off course he wasn't in the same class as Asif but again getting these players out in a spell cannot be used as a marker to make someone more than what they were/are.
Shane Bond played 18 Tests and took 87 wickets at a lower average and SR than Asif, no one even the Kiwis don't hype him that much. Everyone knows he was an amazing bowler who could have done great things for NZ but he did not. Same with Ryan Haris who has similar record to Asif, Aussies don't go gaga over him. He took 113 wickets, that's about it. Why do people appreciate longevity? There are countless bowlers who have done brilliantly over a short period of time but not everyone can do it over 50-100 Tests. When Bumrah was called a great by some Indian fans, the same people who are calling Asif this, Asif that on the forum said he needs to get to 300+ wickets to be talked among greats, then why is it different with Asif?
One of the reasons for hyping Asif up so much for Pakistan fans is because they haven't found anyone even close to him in 15 years after his ban. For NZ there has been Tim Southee, Neil Wagner, Boult etc. For Australia they got Cummins, Hazlewood, Starc but for Pakistan there has been none. I feel it is clutching at the straws to be frank. I am not saying Asif wasn't good, infact he was very skilful and had the potential to become great but that's about it.
Asif was an amazing bowler who could have been a great and that's about it. He should not be compared to anyone including Bumrah. His career ended due to his own doing unlike Ryan Haris & Shane Bond who lost out due to injuries. There are lots of bowlers who played 20 odd Test matches and have similar records to Asif in Tests but none of them get hyped like the latter.
saimayubera
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To cope with the fact that their pace bowling pipeline is over.
It ended with Waqar tbh.
Akhtar and Asif are hyped up a bit so they can believe it extended for a decade more. They were both good but not ATG.
Same with Shaheen/Naseem to believe it's still continuing although their performances mean it's hard to carry on the delusion.
Waqar himself is not a PATCH. Not a scratch or patch on bumrah. Not on his level at all. Only wasim is equal to booms and that too only cause of longevity
This loud ah claims that Travis head hit bumrah over and over again lmao. Where?
Average in tests is now 22 vs bumrah. That’s mediocre as hell
In t29 also it’s poor
Only odi it’s 39 cause they only played 2 games.
Hikaru
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Asif and Amir were nowhere near Bumrah, either in accomplishments or the talent. This is one discussion that can only reach 7 pages in a Pakistani forum.
mominsaigol
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2019 world cup? Literally all of India got destroyed.
And modern era being more batting friendly is only applicable to odi. In tests its harder now and more bowling friendly.
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