Is Javed Miandad the world's second greatest batsman and Asia's No.1 of his era?

[Abdullah Rabbani]

Yes after Viv Richard's he stand's 2nd best batsman of his era as overall in test and odi we have seen many batsman who are specialist of one format limited batsman are great in both format's,

His counterpart's are hyped so much than him but records are different when they stand in two formats, he have many exceptional records that made him best 2nd batsman of his era...

Youngest batsman to score test century on debut that time 19 yeras and 119 day's.
Youngest batsman to score double century at 19 years and 140 day's.
Only player average over 50 throughout Test career.
Scored 1083 runs in 33 matches @ average of 43.32 in Six World Cup tournaments.
Holds the world record for the maximum number of consecutive half centuries in One Day Internationals - 9.
5th most double hundreds in test history - 6 DH.
Double centuries against 5/7 of the teams has played against.

TEST 124 Matches, 8832 runs @ 52.57, 23 centuries and 43 fifties, six ducks. A best of 280*.

Average 58.21in home away 46.38 in Tests

ODI 233 Matches, 7381 runs @ 41.70 , 8 centuries and 50 fifties. A best of 135.

Average 47.05 in home away 40.70 in ODI

Average Counterpart's Of That Era.

Viv Richard's Test: 50.2 ODI: 47.0
Sunil Gavaskar Test: 51.5 ODI: 35.1
Allan Border Test: 50.6 ODI: 30.6
Greg Chappel Test: 53.9 ODI: 40.2
Geoffrey Boycott Test: 47.7 ODI: 36.1
Ian Botham Test: 33.5 ODI: 29.2
David Gower Test: 44.2 ODI: 30.8
Graham Gooch Test: 43.6 ODI: 37.00
David Lloyd Test: 42.5 ODI: 40.7
D Haynes Test: 42.3 ODI: 41.4
Martin Crowe Test: 45.4 ODI: 38.5
Gordon Greenidge Test: 44.7 ODI: 44.3
Zaheer Abbas Test: 44.8 ODI: 47.6
Glenn Turner Test: 44.7 ODI: 47.0
M Amarnath Test: 42.5 ODI: 30.5


We Don't Need To Compare Of Different Era Players But Comparing With There Counterpart's Tell How They Good Are.

After This Stat's What Your Thinking Of World's 2nd Best Batsman And Asia's No1 ???

Javed Miandad King , Street Fighter, Warrior, Champion And Don...

 

[Abdullah Rabbani]

After this Stat's Javed Miandad look less hyped than others because of less electronic media many big sport foreign magazine not rank him high no doubt he is greatest player of that time but we all need recognise truth

 

[Bleedgreen4ever]

Yes after Viv Richard's he stand's 2nd best batsman of his era as overall in test and odi we have seen many batsman who are specialist of one format limited batsman are great in both format's,

His counterpart's are hyped so much than him but records are different when they stand in two formats, he have many exceptional records that made him best 2nd batsman of his era...

Youngest batsman to score test century on debut that time 19 yeras and 119 day's.
Youngest batsman to score double century at 19 years and 140 day's.
Only player average over 50 throughout Test career.
Scored 1083 runs in 33 matches @ average of 43.32 in Six World Cup tournaments.
Holds the world record for the maximum number of consecutive half centuries in One Day Internationals - 9.
5th most double hundreds in test history - 6 DH.
Double centuries against 5/7 of the teams has played against.

TEST 124 Matches, 8832 runs @ 52.57, 23 centuries and 43 fifties, six ducks. A best of 280*.

Average 58.21in home away 46.38 in Tests

ODI 233 Matches, 7381 runs @ 41.70 , 8 centuries and 50 fifties. A best of 135.

Average 47.05 in home away 40.70 in ODI

Average Counterpart's Of That Era.

Viv Richard's Test: 50.2 ODI: 47.0
Sunil Gavaskar Test: 51.5 ODI: 35.1
Allan Border Test: 50.6 ODI: 30.6
Greg Chappel Test: 53.9 ODI: 40.2
Geoffrey Boycott Test: 47.7 ODI: 36.1
Ian Botham Test: 33.5 ODI: 29.2
David Gower Test: 44.2 ODI: 30.8
Graham Gooch Test: 43.6 ODI: 37.00
David Lloyd Test: 42.5 ODI: 40.7
D Haynes Test: 42.3 ODI: 41.4
Martin Crowe Test: 45.4 ODI: 38.5
Gordon Greenidge Test: 44.7 ODI: 44.3
Zaheer Abbas Test: 44.8 ODI: 47.6
Glenn Turner Test: 44.7 ODI: 47.0
M Amarnath Test: 42.5 ODI: 30.5


We Don't Need To Compare Of Different Era Players But Comparing With There Counterpart's Tell How They Good Are.

After This Stat's What Your Thinking Of World's 2nd Best Batsman And Asia's No1 ???

Javed Miandad King , Street Fighter, Warrior, Champion And Don...

Agreed

He was equally good in both tests and ODIs and the best chaser from asia IMO

Most batsmen of his era averaged in the 30s with the bat in ODI although all had good test averages.

Averaging 40 in that era was averaging 60 today..pitches,no PP,ATG bowlers etc
The best part about him was how remarkable he was on under.pressure and in big games unlike many ATGs of today
Other batsmen we had like Inzi,Anwer etc were rubbish when the pressure was on.

 

[Hitman]

Absolutely, if we can ignore his average of 29 against the West Indies.

 

[Abdullah Rabbani]

Absolutely, if we can ignore his average of 29 against the West Indies.

Viv Richard's Average is good because he is not played against windies bowlers

 

[happydavy]

There are 2 reasons why you won't find many pundits talking too highly of Miandad

1. In Pakistan, Miandad was lbw eight times in 73 dismissals. Outside Pakistan, 25 times in 95. Just so that stats are put in context and before people jump on biased umpiring by home umpires of all countries - Gavaskar was lbw 10 times in 101 innings in India, and 7 times in 97 innings outside India.

2. Miandad averaged 29 against WI even after playing 16 test matches against them.

 

[Hitman]

Viv Richard's Average is good because he is not played against windies bowlers

That's hypothetical. Miandad averaged 29 against the West Indies, that's a fact.

 

[Hitman]

There are 2 reasons why you won't find many pundits talking too highly of Miandad

1. In Pakistan, Miandad was lbw eight times in 73 dismissals (10%). Outside Pakistan, 25 times in 95 (26%). Just so that stats are put in context and before people jump on biased umpiring by home umpires of all countries - Gavaskar was lbw 10 times in 101 innings in India, and 7 times in 97 innings outside India.

The first time he was adjudged LBW in Pakistan was in 85' or 86'. And if anyone has any doubts about the secret to that, just read Steve Waugh's autobiography. 'Don't bother appealing. This is my land, my rules' .... this was how Miandad egged Aussie players when they used to appeal against him for LBW in Pakistan.

 

[MenInG]

Miandad's name brings out strange reactions from Indian supporters - almost predictable.

 

[Xoib]

That's hypothetical. Miandad averaged 29 against the West Indies, that's a fact.

In the iconic 88 series in Westindies he scored two centuries so its not like he did not prove himself against them but yes overall record should have been better hence he is rated rightly below Viv and Sunny G but equal to Border and higher to Gooch, Gower, Crowe etc

 

[Hitman]

Miandad's name brings out strange reactions from Indian supporters - almost predictable.

It's strange that most of the Indian players are such great friends with Miandad. Sunny has repeatedly said that he loved Miandad's company outside the ground. Yet he did everything he could to annoy the opposition while on the ground. Most of the fans saw his annoying traits on camera, and never got to know him off the field.

 

[Hitman]

In the iconic 88 series in Westindies he scored two centuries so its not like he did not prove himself against them but yes overall record should have been better hence he is rated rightly below Viv and Sunny G but equal to Border and higher to Gooch, Gower, Crowe etc

Holding, Garner and Roberts had all retired before that series took place. Of course he was better than Gooch, Gower and Crowe, anyone can see that.

 

[Abdullah Rabbani]

The first time he was adjudged LBW in Pakistan was in 85' or 86'. And if anyone has any doubts about the secret to that, just read Steve Waugh's autobiography. 'Don't bother appealing. This is my land, my rules' .... this was how Miandad egged Aussie players when they used to appeal against him for LBW in Pakistan.

These tactics used by every country that time why you don't say on other side that giving everytime lbw on appeal in away matches is revenge against him...

Best example of westindies vs pakistan test series 1988 and vs Australia in 1980's

 

[Mirpur express]

For me he will always be the greatest Pakistani batsman ever .. I started my cricket journey after listening to THAT six in Sharjah & joining in the hysteria that it created, still remember that day as if it was yesterday..

 

[Abdullah Rabbani]

Miandad's name brings out strange reactions from Indian supporters - almost predictable.

Haha oh i didn't mentioned his iconic last ball six against india All time favourite

 

[Abdullah Rabbani]

Indian's don't believe that Pakistan better in producing batsman and bowlers in 90's that reason they don't rate highly zaheer abbas and javed miandad,

Zaheer Abbas Best Odi Bat After Viv.

 

[Hitman]

These tactics used by every country that time why you don't say on other side that giving everytime lbw on appeal in away matches is revenge against him...

Best example of westindies vs pakistan test series 1988 and vs Australia in 1980's

Biased umpiring was prevalent everywhere but for marginal decisions, but no where did the LBW rule went out of the book like it did when Miandad was batting in Pakistan. Mind you, Steve Waugh is not the only former cricketer who has spoken about this in his book.

There was this Indian bowler by the name of Maninder Singh. He was egged by the then umpire Shakoor Rana after he turned down a plumb LBW decision against Miandad, he said, 'Chal, chal .... bowling kar. Yaha clean bowled hone par hi wicket milega'.

There are lots more of such stories.

 

[Swashbuckler]

In my book he is behind Viv, Gavaskar, Greg Chappell and Border in that tough era for batting. But an indisputable ATG, a worthy Hall of Famer and the greatest Pakistani batsman of all time. If I have to rank Asian batsmen he will be number 4 in the list behind Sachin, Sunny and Sangakkara although Kohli when he is done will challenge for the top spot pushing Miandad a spot down.

 

[Hitman]

Indian's don't believe that Pakistan better in producing batsman and bowlers in 90's that reason they don't rate highly zaheer abbas and javed miandad,

Zaheer Abbas Best Odi Bat After Viv.

) Yea, sure.

BTW, anyone with a brain would know that you were historically a much better team till the 90's. Not even a fool would deny that. Zaheer Abbas was a brilliant batsman, and a lot of Indian players of his time has said that. Even Sunny has spoken about him.

But Zaheer Abbas being the 2nd greatest ODI batsman after Viv, after playing 60 ODI matches = )

 

[Abdullah Rabbani]

In my book he is behind Viv, Gavaskar, Greg Chappell and Border in that tough era for batting. But an indisputable ATG, a worthy Hall of Famer and the greatest Pakistani batsman of all time. If I have to rank Asian batsmen he will be number 4 in the list behind Sachin, Sunny and Sangakkara although Kohli when he is done will challenge for the top spot pushing Miandad a spot down.

We are talking about both formats border and gavasker are poor in odi's Miandad mile's ahead

 

[Ab Fan]

Javed Miandad is an ATG but inferior to Viv, Chappell, Gavaskar and AB from his era.

He was a great ODI batsmen as well but the legacy of a player was mostly determined by your performance in tests format in that era.

If I have to rank Pakistani batsmen across all formats, it would be: -

Tests: -

Miandad
Ever-smiling Khan
Inzamam
Yousuf
Anwar

Odis: -

Anwar
Abbas
Inzamam
Miandad
Yousuf

Not much to seperate the top four of them in ODIs though.

Overall: -

Miandad
Inzamam
Younis
Anwar/Yousuf

 

[Abdullah Rabbani]

) Yea, sure.

BTW, anyone with a brain would know that you were historically a much better team till the 90's. Not even a fool would deny that. Zaheer Abbas was a brilliant batsman, and a lot of Indian players of his time has said that. Even Sunny has spoken about him.

But Zaheer Abbas being the 2nd greatest ODI batsman after Viv, after playing 60 ODI matches = )

Zaheer Abbas
First ODI 31 August 1974 v England,
Last ODI 3 November 1985 v Sri Lanka
After playing span of 11 year's consistent overall averaged 47.6 @sr 85 everyone played less odi these days no one break his best rating 931 on playing flat tracks with 200 matches

 

[Ab Fan]

When we consider both formats, Javed Miandad takes the cake over Rahul Dravid.

However, Gavaskar is still superior to both Miandad and Dravid because he is a level superior to both in test formats.

 

[Robert]

Absolutely, if we can ignore his average of 29 against the West Indies.

Yeah, I used to rate Javed at #2 because he was so clutch, but this is a strange hole in his stats. Can’t have been lack of bravery as Javed was so scrappy. As I recall he was a deflector type batter which didn’t work too well against WI - the more muscular types types like Gooch seemed to do better against them.

 

[Abdullah Rabbani]

When we consider both formats, Javed Miandad takes the cake over Rahul Dravid.

However, Gavaskar is still superior to both Miandad and Dravid because he is a level superior to both in test formats.

Because he scored 1000 runs ?

 

[Ab Fan]

Because he scored 1000 runs ?

Longevity is not a major factor. What sets apart Gavaskar is his ability to perform across all conditions, against all kinds of bowling attacks and the way he stood up against the greatest team of the era.

As an opening batsmen, he averaged 51 in the era when bowling quality was high and conditions were much tougher for batsmen and he did it across all conditions. Longevity further adds up to this point.

Easily one of the top 10 test batsmen of all-time.

This is what sets apart Gavaskar from guys like Cook. When you consider longevity, Gavaskar is an equal to Cook but all other factor adds up and we find that there is a gulf of difference between the two.

 

[Hitman]

Zaheer Abbas
First ODI 31 August 1974 v England,
Last ODI 3 November 1985 v Sri Lanka
After playing span of 11 year's consistent overall averaged 47.6 @sr 85 everyone played less odi these days no one break his best rating 931 on playing flat tracks with 200 matches

Except that he played 58 ODI innings in his entire career. That's what matters.

He was a fantastic batsman. Even Sunny has spoken about what a magical timer of the ball he was, probably the best of his time. But the 2nd best ODI batsman ever? If I bring out Sachin and Kohli's ODI stats, you'll be made to look foolish. So give it a break!

Untill now now, Viv was universally considered the best ODI batsman, followed by Sachin. But with Kohli now, I have no doubt in my mind that he'll easily end up as the greatest ODI batsman every soon.

 

[Hitman]

Yeah, I used to rate Javed at #2 because he was so clutch, but this is a strange hole in his stats. Can’t have been lack of bravery as Javed was so scrappy. As I recall he was a deflector type batter which didn’t work too well against WI - the more muscular types types like Gooch seemed to do better against them.

Thew biggest question you need to ask is his overall average, you know just as well as I do regarding the secret to that.

 

[Abdullah Rabbani]

Except that he played 58 ODI innings in his entire career. That's what matters.

He was a fantastic batsman. Even Sunny has spoken about what a magical timer of the ball he was, probably the best of his time. But the 2nd best ODI batsman ever? If I bring out Sachin and Kohli's ODI stats, you'll be made to look foolish. So give it a break!

Untill now now, Viv was universally considered the best ODI batsman, followed by Sachin. But with Kohli now, I have no doubt in my mind that he'll easily end up as the greatest ODI batsman every soon.

I don't say ever , of that era you don't compare one era to other like foolish

 

[Hitman]

Zaheer Abbas
First ODI 31 August 1974 v England,
Last ODI 3 November 1985 v Sri Lanka
After playing span of 11 year's consistent overall averaged 47.6 @sr 85 everyone played less odi these days no one break his best rating 931 on playing flat tracks with 200 matches

Anyways, let's have a look -

SRT - 452 (innings); 44.83 (ave); SR - 86.23; 100's - 49

Mind you, those are the numbers of a player who maintained the same numbers in the 90's. It's not like he played in today's time and achieved those numbers. Now let's have a look at Zaheer Abbas's numbers -

Abbas - 60 (innings); 47.62 (ave); SR - 84.80; 100's - 7


You still want to claim with a straight face what you previously did?

 

[cricketindiafan]

World's second greatest batsman with average of 29 in Tests and 33 in ODIs against the strongest attack of his era?

He's Pakistan's best ever batsman and will be in the top 5 of his era behind King Viv, Greg Chappel and Gavaskar but the very fact that he does not even get considered for All time 11s of so many cricket experts tells the whole story.

 

[Shafi]

Average batsman with boastful attitude!!!!!

 

[Hitman]

Average batsman with boastful attitude!!!!!

That's really unfair. He was a very good batsman, even us Indian fans will admit that.

 

[Abdullah Rabbani]

Anyways, let's have a look -

SRT - 452 (innings); 44.83 (ave); SR - 86.23; 100's - 49

Mind you, those are the numbers of a player who maintained the same numbers in the 90's. It's not like he played in today's time and achieved those numbers. Now let's have a look at Zaheer Abbas's numbers -

Abbas - 60 (innings); 47.62 (ave); SR - 84.80; 100's - 7


You still want to claim with a straight face what you previously did?

Era is not some
Before 1994 M65 R:1679 A:31.09 74.32 0/ 12
1994 To Dec 2000 M198 R8220 A:45.66 Sr:88.96 27/ 38

 

[Hitman]

Era is not some
Before 1994 M65 R:1679 A:31.09 74.32 0/ 12
1994 To Dec 2000 M198 R8220 A:45.66 Sr:88.96 27/ 38

Except that in the 90's, any batsman with an SR of 70 odd was considered to be really good. The SR of batsman in the 90's was not different from those of the ones who played in the 70's and 80's. A lot of batsman in the 70's and the 80's played at an SR in the 60's, and an SR of 70 odd was considered brilliant in the 90's. SRT had an SR in the late 80's from 1st Jan, 1990 till 31st Jan, 1999. Therein lies the difference. It doesn't really matters when Miandad retired, the rules of ODI cricket remained the same throughout the 90's.

You want evidence?

 

[Swashbuckler]

We are talking about both formats border and gavasker are poor in odi's Miandad mile's ahead

ODIs weren't popular then, only came into limelight in the 90s. Besides Gavaskar was the GOAT test opener, a sure shot opener in an all time test XI. Once you are that good doesn't matter how you do in ODIs. Same story as Malcolm Marshall who was the GOAT fast bowler, hence his relatively poorer ODI stats aren't scrutinized. Now someone can't claim Andy Roberts>Marshall across both formats because in the premiere format of that era the gulf in class was visible. Similarly Allan Border was a lone warrior in a minnow team who laid the foundation for eventual world domination and had more balanced stats, he was even greater than Ponting if you look objectively.

 

[happydavy]

There are 2 reasons why you won't find many pundits talking too highly of Miandad

1. In Pakistan, Miandad was lbw eight times in 73 dismissals. Outside Pakistan, 25 times in 95. Just so that stats are put in context and before people jump on biased umpiring by home umpires of all countries - Gavaskar was lbw 10 times in 101 innings in India, and 7 times in 97 innings outside India.

2. Miandad averaged 29 against WI even after playing 16 test matches against them.

And because of those 2 reasons, you would hardly find a Pakistani cricketer having miandad in his dream XI forget about others

 

[Hitman]

And because of those 2 reasons, you would hardly find a Pakistani cricketer having miandad in his dream XI forget about others

Not even Younis Khan, Rameez Raza and Waqar Younis included Miandad in their All TIme XI

 

[Swashbuckler]

When we consider both formats, Javed Miandad takes the cake over Rahul Dravid.

However, Gavaskar is still superior to both Miandad and Dravid because he is a level superior to both in test formats.

IMO you are right but most fans underestimate Dravid the ODI player. If you compare him to supposedly good ODI batsmen of that time like Ganguly, Inzi, Azharuddin, Steve Waugh, Aravinda, Astle, Mohd Yousuf etc you will be surprised. You will be even more surprised when you check his ICC tournament numbers. Dravid was poor in ODIs in his 1st 2 years but from the 1999 tour to NZ he became a different player culminating in his heroics in 1999 WC where he became top scorer.

Unfortunately image sticks and Dravid was typecast as a liability in ODIs almost his whole career. I genuinely believe that between 1999 to 2007 he was among the world's best in this format. He was a vital cog in the impressive Indian batting line up of that time, on quite a few occasions our best batsman.

But yeah Miandad overall just edges out Dravid, not based on ODI achievements but because of Dravid's repeated red ball cricket failings in Australia and SA, the 2 best bowling+catching units of his time.

 

[Ab Fan]

IMO you are right but most fans underestimate Dravid the ODI player. If you compare him to supposedly good ODI batsmen of that time like Ganguly, Inzi, Azharuddin, Steve Waugh, Aravinda, Astle, Mohd Yousuf etc you will be surprised. You will be even more surprised when you check his ICC tournament numbers. Dravid was poor in ODIs in his 1st 2 years but from the 1999 tour to NZ he became a different player culminating in his heroics in 1999 WC where he became top scorer.

Unfortunately image sticks and Dravid was typecast as a liability in ODIs almost his whole career. I genuinely believe that between 1999 to 2007 he was among the world's best in this format. He was a vital cog in the impressive Indian batting line up of that time, on quite a few occasions our best batsman.

But yeah Miandad overall just edges out Dravid, not based on ODI achievements but because of Dravid's repeated red ball cricket failings in Australia and SA, the 2 best bowling+catching units of his time.

Dravid was a very good odi batsmen too. But as you said, Miandad was clearly a superior ODI player and hence overall also edges him out.

I am not sure of that world's best batsmen at any point but with 10K runs, avg of 39 and SR of 71,he definitely is a very good ODI player. His outside Asia stats are even impressive. However, he was accused of lack of quick-scoring ability all through his career and a lower SR is what doesn't make him a great ODI player.

 

[Abdullah Rabbani]

Dravid was a very good odi batsmen too. But as you said, Miandad was clearly a superior ODI player and hence overall also edges him out.

I am not sure of that world's best batsmen at any point but with 10K runs, avg of 39 and SR of 71,he definitely is a very good ODI player. His outside Asia stats are even impressive. However, he was accused of lack of quick-scoring ability all through his career and a lower SR is what doesn't make him a great ODI player.

From indopak in this era Mohammad Yousaf is better than , Dravid and Ganguly behind SRT...

 

[Mirpur express]

Except that he played 58 ODI innings in his entire career. That's what matters

Untill now now, Viv was universally considered the best ODI batsman, followed by Sachin. But with Kohli now, I have no doubt in my mind that he'll easily end up as the greatest ODI batsman every soon.

lol yeah... whatever!

 

[Hitman]

lol yeah... whatever!

Yea, except that most sensible people will agree with me. Will they?

 

[Bewal Express]

You can argue all we like about Stats but the one thing is certain and that is that JM was amongst the mentally toughest players to play the game.

 

[Hitman]

You can argue all we like about Stats but the one thing is certain and that is that JM was amongst the mentally toughest players to play the game.

Even his hated critics will agree with that. He was someone who would go head to head with any match situation is is put up in. Kinda like Steve Waugh, tough as nails.

 

[Canford Cliffs]

He is not even in top 5 from Asia tbh.

Top 5 Asian test batsman:

Tendulkar
Gavaskar
Dravid
Sanga
Kohli/YK/Sehwag

Top 5 Asian ODI batsman:
Tendulkar
Kohli
Ganguly
Dhoni
Sanga

 

[Mp812]

One can safely assume even JM himself will probably not agree with OP

 

[Oligochaetes]

He is not even in top 5 from Asia tbh.

Top 5 Asian test batsman:

Tendulkar
Gavaskar
Dravid
Sanga
Kohli/YK/Sehwag

Top 5 Asian ODI batsman:
Tendulkar
Kohli
Ganguly
Dhoni
Sanga

You missed the point... please read the thread title.

Is Javed Miandad World's 2nd Greatest Batsman And Asia's No1 Of His Era

 

[RainMan_]

That's hypothetical. Miandad averaged 29 against the West Indies, that's a fact.

That isn't hypothetical. Its a proven fact. Look at his domestic record.

 

[MMHS]

Javed was a champion ODI batsman, but inferior Test batsman - his technique wasn't that great. In 80s, I think only Border was a better Test bat than him, while for couple of years Vengsarker was ahead. In ODI, Viv still was a better batsman, may be few others as well - I'll pick him as overall 2nd best batsman of 80s, but there are very little between Javed, Gower & Border in 80s.

 

[Ab Fan]

From indopak in this era Mohammad Yousaf is better than , Dravid and Ganguly behind SRT...

I don't rate him that highly and I have explained it very well many times.

Will put him ahead of Dravid in ODIs and Ganguly in tests, but behind the other two in the respective formats.

 

[Abdullah Rabbani]

I don't rate him that highly and I have explained it very well many times.

Will put him ahead of Dravid in ODIs and Ganguly in tests, but behind the other two in the respective formats.

Whatever Your Thought But It's Proven By Stat's He Is Overall Best Batsman Than Many In His Era

 

[austerlitz]

1.Viv Richards
2.Sunil Gavaskar
3.Greg Chapell
4.Javed Miandad/Allan Border

Miandad avg 29 vs west Indies.
Gavaskar 14 centuries vs west indies.
You can't be the best batsman of your era if you fail against the best team of your era.

Miandad never once given LBW in home matches between 1975 and 1986.Himself admitted it.
You look at miandad technique its a tailender technique.He was a fighter,a scrapper,not a technician.

In ODIs yes ,he was probably 2nd best along with gordon greenidge.

 

[rhony]

Miandad was clutch. He, Steve Waugh should not be measured using stats or rankings. Every team needs that Street fighter in the team that bails you out time and again irrespective of the bowling attack and conditions. Old timers like my dad talk about a calculator in his head at all times. I think Dhoni until a a couple of years ago continued his legacy in LOIs.

 

[anikrc1]

Javed was a champion ODI batsman, but inferior Test batsman - his technique wasn't that great. In 80s, I think only Border was a better Test bat than him, while for couple of years Vengsarker was ahead. In ODI, Viv still was a better batsman, may be few others as well - I'll pick him as overall 2nd best batsman of 80s, but there are very little between Javed, Gower & Border in 80s.

Miandad or Steve Waugh as a test no 5, whom do you prefer?

 

[CricFan2012]

Viv Richard's Average is good because he is not played against windies bowlers

Miandad’s average is good because he did not play against Pakistan bowlers as well, so the Viv statement balances out.

I personally rank Miandad below Gavaskar for this reason, the fact that Sunny also did great against the best bowling at the time and did not get to bash Indian bowlers proves it.

 

[Junaids]

Miandad's name brings out strange reactions from Indian supporters - almost predictable.

I agree with them.

Miandad was quite good, but he didn’t have to face the West Indian or Pakistani (or South African) attacks and was immune to being LBW at home.

From 1977-85 he was clearly inferior to Viv Richards, Barry Richards, Clive Lloyd, Greg Chappell, Kim Hughes, Sunil Gavaskar and David Gower.

From 1985-1993 he was clearly inferior to Allan Border, Graham Gooch, Martin Crowe, Mohammad Azharuddin and Dean Jones.

Javed Miandad was a very good batsman whose figures were inflated by crooked Pakistani umpiring. And then he scored 2 centuries in the Caribbean against a rookie attack in 1988 before failing there in 1993 once those same bowlers were more experienced.

 

[MMHS]

Miandad or Steve Waugh as a test no 5, whom do you prefer?

Probably Steve, but not in Asia. He could bowl a bit as well.

 

[szrana]

I agree with them.

Miandad was quite good, but he didn’t have to face the West Indian or Pakistani (or South African) attacks and was immune to being LBW at home.

From 1977-85 he was clearly inferior to Viv Richards, Barry Richards, Clive Lloyd, Greg Chappell, Kim Hughes, Sunil Gavaskar and David Gower.

From 1985-1993 he was clearly inferior to Allan Border, Graham Gooch, Martin Crowe, Mohammad Azharuddin and Dean Jones.

Javed Miandad was a very good batsman whose figures were inflated by crooked Pakistani umpiring. And then he scored 2 centuries in the Caribbean against a rookie attack in 1988 before failing there in 1993 once those same bowlers were more experienced.

He was past his best in 1993, should have retired by then.

 

[Monsee]

Miandad's name brings out strange reactions from Indian supporters - almost predictable.

That six forever etched in their memory...no amount of wins after that will erase that painful experience!

 

[Sadozai]

In the year 1996, when I was a 8-9 years old kid having no proper knowledge of the Cricket, Miandad was batting in a WC match against India. Pak team was not in a good position and I remember that my senior family members were saying that if Miandad & Rashid bat till the final over pak can win but at the end of that match I was a disappointed kid. That's the only instance when I saw Miandad batting live.

However, I grew up listening about his batting abilities & his famous last ball SIX.

I watched highlights of some of his innings where he batted brilliantly & his stats show that he was one of the best Pakistani batsman.

 

[Monsee]

Here is the low down: Insert Any Pak player (any format/any era), bowler or batsman...you will rarely, if ever, find an Indian fan saying he was ahead of xyz Indian batsmen and xyz Indian bowlers (for bowlers they might accept some of our faster ones to be superior but only just); in all my years here, well over 13 or more, I have rarely ever seen this become untrue!

 

[Harsh Thakor]

That six forever etched in their memory...no amount of wins after that will erase that painful experience!

A name that is hardly mentioned is that of Gordon Greenidge.For a period in 1984-1987 he was arguably the best batsmen in the world.No batsmen of the 1980s blended aggression and defence so proportionately like a bulldozer and architect moulded into one.Greenidge in 1984 in England was ahead of Viv or Javed . Javed niggled opponents more than anyone and was the ultimate man to revive a sinking ship.Border was the better testbatsmen with his better consistency and overseas record but I would still have Javed in my team as he was more of a scourge in the eyes of great bowlers and had more natural skill.From 1987-1989 Javed overtook Viv. Border was never no 1. but an epitome of consistency.

 

[Balthazar]

That six forever etched in their memory...no amount of wins after that will erase that painful experience!

A six in some inconsequential series? I didn't watch the match but nobody of this generation even knows about it.

 

[szrana]

A six in some inconsequential series? I didn't watch the match but nobody of this generation even knows about it.

It wasn't some inconsequential series, it was the final of Australasia cup after which Pak started to dominate India in Odi's.

 

[rhony]

A six in some inconsequential series? I didn't watch the match but nobody of this generation even knows about it.

A six that scarred a generation of Indians and that started Pak's domination over India for close to 15 years until Ganguly's India

 

[cricketjoshila]

It wasn't some inconsequential series, it was the final of Australasia cup after which Pak started to dominate India in Odi's.

What about the final of World T20? Or Asia cup or WC semis or knockout matches?

 

[szrana]

What about the final of World T20? Or Asia cup or WC semis or knockout matches?

India has always been winning against Pak in WC's, even in 92 when Pak won and 99 when they were runner up. But the 1996 and 2011 wins were knockout matches, so kudos to India there, but Pak always had the upper hand in bilaterals as evidenced by their 6 odi series wins in India. I don't think any other team has that many series wins in India.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Miandad was a great batsman. But he was not the 2nd best batsman of his era.

 

[Canford Cliffs]

That six forever etched in their memory...no amount of wins after that will erase that painful experience!

Honestly, I have heard about that six more from Pakistanis than Indians. It may be a big thing in Pak but in India no one cares about a random six hit like some 30 years ago in a JAMODI in some desert land. Infact, no one even remembers more recent Bhajji's six off Amir in Asia cup as well.

Pak fans (especially older ones) need to move on from this 90s mindset. We are 2018

 

[cricketjoshila]

India has always been winning against Pak in WC's, even in 92 when Pak won and 99 when they were runner up. But the 1996 and 2011 wins were knockout matches, so kudos to India there, but Pak always had the upper hand in bilaterals as evidenced by their 6 odi series wins in India. I don't think any other team has that many series wins in India.

80s were the only time India and Pakistan regularly toured each other. A time when Pakistan was clearly the 2nd or 3rd best team in the world. While India for the only time in its history didnot had a great spinner in the team. Gavaskar was entering his post 30 era. This is one of the reasons why Pakistan has a better head to.head.

The time when India beat WI and Eng away and drew with Aus in 70, had the 4 great spinners and a peak Gavaskar India and Pakistan hardly played any bilateral series.

Even now when India is a better test and ODI team there are hardly any matches.

 

[szrana]

80s were the only time India and Pakistan regularly toured each other. A time when Pakistan was clearly the 2nd or 3rd best team in the world. While India for the only time in its history didnot had a great spinner in the team. Gavaskar was entering his post 30 era. This is one of the reasons why Pakistan has a better head to.head.

The time when India beat WI and Eng away and drew with Aus in 70, had the 4 great spinners and a peak Gavaskar India and Pakistan hardly played any bilateral series.

Even now when India is a better test and ODI team there are hardly any matches.

Pakistan have won last 2 out of 3 odi series in India ( 2005 and 2012), so its not just about 80's and 90's.

 

[Monsee]

Pakistan have won last 2 out of 3 odi series in India ( 2005 and 2012), so its not just about 80's and 90's.

You need to stop worrying about the replies from our Indian counterparts, especially the ones acting as if that six never happened, was incosequential, oh no one talked about it in India etc. and also the ones playing down any other Pak wins down to 'Oh our team was not great back then' blah blah blah!

If you have been around this discussion board as long as I have been (13+ years), you start expecting such response...in many cases, they want you to believe what they are saying is the absolute truth. If you read my post above (#63), you will get some more prespective how this all works!

As for those last two wins and overall huge domination by Pak in ODIs against India in India...oh that was when they were playing the 'Good Hosts' or something...see Pak can never be better then their team, ever

 

[Bilal7]

That's hypothetical. Miandad averaged 29 against the West Indies, that's a fact.

And Dravid averaged even lower against South Africa while Ponting failed in India. I don't see why this has any bearing on the fact that Miandad was easily one of the top three batsmen in the world during his time.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Pakistan have won last 2 out of 3 odi series in India ( 2005 and 2012), so its not just about 80's and 90's.

India won the Odi series ib 2004 and 2006 in Pakistan.

 

[Rayyman]

Babar.

 

[Canford Cliffs]

Pakistan have won last 2 out of 3 odi series in India ( 2005 and 2012), so its not just about 80's and 90's.

India has also won in 2004 and 2006 in Pakistan. So what is your point? This debate can go on and on. I can bring 11-0 WC record and you will bring h2h records. So these debates will go on and on.

The issue is, Sharjah is stuck in older Pak fans mind forever and they are not able to get out of it. I thought CT win might hv changed their mindset but few are still stuck in 90s. Tell me how is Miandad's six different from Bhajji's six in last over against Amir? Chetan Sharma was surely a much inferior bowler to Amir. So Bhajji's six was a bigger feat, no? How was its any different to Balaji's six off Akhtar or Sachin's six off Akhtar or Jadeja's assault on Waqar or Rohit's recent 100m six off Shinwari?

This is the difference between Ind and Pak fans. Ind fans enjoy a match, enjoy sixes/wins and move on. Surely most hv forgotten the aboslute humiliation they dished to Pak in Asia cup. But Pak fans on the other hand have created a mindset that six by Miandad helped Pak's dominace against Ind in Sharjah or they keep on reminding Indians about Afridi's six in Asia cup against Ashwin or Aane Do series or 2005 series or CT finals and keep repeating that till infinity.

The issue is, most Ind/Pak matches in recent times are one sided in favour of India. So once in a blue moon if Pak wins a game...they hold onto those memories for ages.

 

[Bilal7]

Pakistan have won last 2 out of 3 odi series in India ( 2005 and 2012), so its not just about 80's and 90's.

Pakistan have been a better test team than India in the 80s, 90s and early 2010s. The 00s were fiercely contested and now India are better, but only because Pakistan is in transition.

In ODIs, India have been a better team since the 00s even though Pakistan have had their moments like that 2012 series win and the CT final.

 

[Canford Cliffs]

Pakistan have been a better test team than India in the 80s, 90s and early 2010s. The 00s were fiercely contested and now India are better, but only because Pakistan is in transition.

In ODIs, India have been a better team since the 00s even though Pakistan have had their moments like that 2012 series win and the CT final.

Pak is lucky not to play test cricket with India simce 2008. Lets be honest, a team that drops a test against Zimb, WI or gets whotewashed by SL at home....what would hv happened had they played regularly with India.

India would beat Pakistan in test cricket anywhere on planet earth.

#FACT

 

[Mamoon]

A six that scarred a generation of Indians and that started Pak's domination over India for close to 15 years until Ganguly's India

They make nice stories, but individual moments or wins do not have long lasting impact, and neither can dominance be attributed to them. Generally, the better team will prevail, irrespective of any mental scarring.

Same was said about the Champions Trophy Final, and how this crop of Pakistani players will not be intimidated by India who will be mentally scarred the next time they play Pakistan. We saw how that panned out.

Pakistan dominated India back then simply because it had better players. Same reason why India is dominating Pakistan despite of the blip in the Champions Trophy. It had nothing to do with that six - Miandad could have had his stumps knocked over but that would not have made the Indian players of that generation superior.