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Is Javed Miandad the world's second greatest batsman and Asia's No.1 of his era?

Canford Cliffs said:
India has also won in 2004 and 2006 in Pakistan. So what is your point? This debate can go on and on. I can bring 11-0 WC record and you will bring h2h records. So these debates will go on and on.

The issue is, Sharjah is stuck in older Pak fans mind forever and they are not able to get out of it. I thought CT win might hv changed their mindset but few are still stuck in 90s. Tell me how is Miandad's six different from Bhajji's six in last over against Amir? Chetan Sharma was surely a much inferior bowler to Amir. So Bhajji's six was a bigger feat, no? How was its any different to Balaji's six off Akhtar or Sachin's six off Akhtar or Jadeja's assault on Waqar or Rohit's recent 100m six off Shinwari?

This is the difference between Ind and Pak fans. Ind fans enjoy a match, enjoy sixes/wins and move on. Surely most hv forgotten the aboslute humiliation they dished to Pak in Asia cup. But Pak fans on the other hand have created a mindset that six by Miandad helped Pak's dominace against Ind in Sharjah or they keep on reminding Indians about Afridi's six in Asia cup against Ashwin or Aane Do series or 2005 series or CT finals and keep repeating that till infinity.

The issue is, most Ind/Pak matches in recent times are one sided in favour of India. So once in a blue moon if Pak wins a game...they hold onto those memories for ages.
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Are you comparing the six off the final ball to win the trophy with other sixes in ordinary games?
 
rhony said:
Are you comparing the six off the final ball to win the trophy with other sixes in ordinary games?
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What makes Australasia cup so special? That was also a JAMODI. No doubt it was a good six but what makes you think that six had mental block on Indian players? If it had why couldnt Pak beat India in 92 WC where Miandad got bowled by a 21 yo Srinath?

Also Bhajji's six off Amir was in last over in Asia cup. Why it is not special and only that Miandad six is?

As I said, Pak fans are free to believe whatever they want. Kuch bhi khayali pulao banaye. But Indians look at things very differently and focus at present. Hence the current state of both teams where they are.
 
Canford Cliffs said:
What makes Australasia cup so special? That was also a JAMODI. No doubt it was a good six but what makes you think that six had mental block on Indian players? If it had why couldnt Pak beat India in 92 WC where Miandad got bowled by a 21 yo Srinath?

Also Bhajji's six off Amir was in last over in Asia cup. Why it is not special and only that Miandad six is?

As I said, Pak fans are free to believe whatever they want. Kuch bhi khayali pulao banaye. But Indians look at things very differently and focus at present. Hence the current state of both teams where they are.
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People remember Chetan for that six and the hattrick. This is from a respected journalist from CI. Dileep

"At the time It was just one shot but, as the years passed, it became a festering wound in the psyche of Indian cricketers. Matches against Pakistan were invariably lost, especially when they were finals played in the Middle East in front of capacity Friday crowds"

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.th...hampions-trophy-pakistan-miandad-sharma-india
 
Canford Cliffs said:
Pak is lucky not to play test cricket with India simce 2008. Lets be honest, a team that drops a test against Zimb, WI or gets whotewashed by SL at home....what would hv happened had they played regularly with India.

India would beat Pakistan in test cricket anywhere on planet earth.

#FACT
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India would be beaten in England, NZ and other places, they can only beat Pak on rank turners like they do to most teams. # FACT
 
Mamoon said:
They make nice stories, but individual moments or wins do not have long lasting impact, and neither can dominance be attributed to them. Generally, the better team will prevail, irrespective of any mental scarring.

Same was said about the Champions Trophy Final, and how this crop of Pakistani players will not be intimidated by India who will be mentally scarred the next time they play Pakistan. We saw how that panned out.

Pakistan dominated India back then simply because it had better players. Same reason why India is dominating Pakistan despite of the blip in the Champions Trophy. It had nothing to do with that six - Miandad could have had his stumps knocked over but that would not have made the Indian players of that generation superior.
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Yes, teams with better players typically win more consistently. But again, one can't explain how generations of great Pak players lost to inferior Indian teams in the world cups. The impact of psychological scars is real.
 
Heisenberg111 said:
India would be beaten in England, NZ and other places, they can only beat Pak on rank turners like they do to most teams. # FACT
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Not true at all. The reason India dont beat Eng in Eng bcoz they have superior fast bowlers. Similarly, Eng dont beat India in India due to better spinners. But Pak has none of them. They dont have any seamer in test cricket of the same calibre of Anderson or Broad. Currently India has got better seam and spin attack in test cricket than Pakistan. Also, Indian test batting is perhaps on different planet compared to Pak. And the most important thing, its difficult to fluke a 5 day game...IYKWIM
 
Canford Cliffs said:
Not true at all. The reason India dont beat Eng in Eng bcoz they have superior fast bowlers. Similarly, Eng dont beat India in India due to better spinners. But Pak has none of them. They dont have any seamer in test cricket of the same calibre of Anderson or Broad. Currently India has got better seam and spin attack in test cricket than Pakistan. Also, Indian test batting is perhaps on different planet compared to Pak. And the most important thing, its difficult to fluke a 5 day game...IYKWIM
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Yeah thats why India only has 4 test wins and 22 losses in SENA countries since 2010. Even Sri Lanka can challenge India in Eng, NZ etc. Indians are the biggest HTB's, just look at the disparity in their home and away records. Since 2010, they have won 32 tests at home lost 4 W/L ratio =8
In SENA countries, they have won 4 and lost 22, W/L ratio = 0.18
Pakistan in comparison have won 6 and lost 15 in the same period with a W/L ratio = 0.4
Even Sri Lanka has won in England in same period, India would be lucky to beat SL in Eng.
 
Heisenberg111 said:
Yeah thats why India only has 4 test wins and 22 losses in SENA countries since 2010. Even Sri Lanka can challenge India in Eng, NZ etc. Indians are the biggest HTB's, just look at the disparity in their home and away records. Since 2010, they have won 32 tests at home lost 4 W/L ratio =8
In SENA countries, they have won 4 and lost 22, W/L ratio = 0.18
Pakistan in comparison have won 6 and lost 15 in the same period with a W/L ratio = 0.4
Even Sri Lanka has won in England in same period, India would be lucky to beat SL in Eng.
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http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...span;team=6;team=7;template=results;type=team

Here is the link to the above mentioned stats of Pakistan and India in SENA countries.
 
Pak's ranking is considerably lower because they lost a few games at home as well. Also, beating and drawing against higher ranked teams gives a lot of ranking points. AUS was ranked higher than now when India drew two tests. Beating one test in SA helped them.as well
 
rhony said:
You ignoring the "draws" column? A draw in SENA for Asian countries is an achievement as well. India and Pakistan have lost 68 percent of their matches in these countries
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Yes, they both have almost identical losing percentage but Pakistan's winning % is 27.2 while India's winning % is only 12.5.
 
Bilal7 said:
And Dravid averaged even lower against South Africa while Ponting failed in India. I don't see why this has any bearing on the fact that Miandad was easily one of the top three batsmen in the world during his time.
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Except that you are bringing up Dravid and Pointong's failure in 2 different countries respectively. While Miandad was a complete failure again a particular team overall, both home and away. And that team happened to be the best team of that time, and the finest team ever.
 
Bilal7 said:
And Dravid averaged even lower against South Africa while Ponting failed in India. I don't see why this has any bearing on the fact that Miandad was easily one of the top three batsmen in the world during his time.
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Viv

Gavaskar

Border

Greg Chappell

Unfortunately i have to disagree with you.
 
Javed was not the best but he was a fighter and I would not mind having him in my all time team
 
I think he is.

One information is for everyone which I read in an article, Miandad's test average never fell below 50 even once, after he his test average became 50. Phenomenal consistency
 
Canford Cliffs said:
Pak is lucky not to play test cricket with India simce 2008. Lets be honest, a team that drops a test against Zimb, WI or gets whotewashed by SL at home....what would hv happened had they played regularly with India.

India would beat Pakistan in test cricket anywhere on planet earth.

#FACT
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Not so quickly Jose, when India and Pak meet, especially in a series...rankings mean nothing aka zilch!

Examples: Pak in India 2005, Pak 2012 ODI series in India, even the 1987 series in India when no one was expecting Pak to dominate India in their home and boy did India got a Phainta in the ODI series as well losing the test series too!

Fact is that whenever there is a series between the two, most of the time, the weaker team has managed to punch above their weight; so, if there was test series between the two, don't expect a routine Indian victory just like that but for that to even happen, Indians (especially BCCI have to grow some anatomy part) to be willing to host Pak at home. This with the knowledge that if India loses or even drew, their houses will be pelted or burned!
 
Heisenberg111 said:
Yeah thats why India only has 4 test wins and 22 losses in SENA countries since 2010. Even Sri Lanka can challenge India in Eng, NZ etc. Indians are the biggest HTB's, just look at the disparity in their home and away records. Since 2010, they have won 32 tests at home lost 4 W/L ratio =8
In SENA countries, they have won 4 and lost 22, W/L ratio = 0.18
Pakistan in comparison have won 6 and lost 15 in the same period with a W/L ratio = 0.4
Even Sri Lanka has won in England in same period, India would be lucky to beat SL in Eng.
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Don't waste your breath. This guy thinks Bumrah is a better test bowler than Abbas. Laugh, point but do not engage. The idiocy will suck you in like a black hole.
 
Monsee said:
Not so quickly Jose, when India and Pak meet, especially in a series...rankings mean nothing aka zilch!

Examples: Pak in India 2005, Pak 2012 ODI series in India, even the 1987 series in India when no one was expecting Pak to dominate India in their home and boy did India got a Phainta in the ODI series as well losing the test series too!

Fact is that whenever there is a series between the two, most of the time, the weaker team has managed to punch above their weight; so, if there was test series between the two, don't expect a routine Indian victory just like that but for that to even happen, Indians (especially BCCI have to grow some anatomy part) to be willing to host Pak at home. This with the knowledge that if India loses or even drew, their houses will be pelted or burned!
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India would have been the underdogs had the series taken place from 2011-2016. With Younis, Misbah and Ajmal in the team, India would have been beaten all over the world.

Currently, they are the better team but like you said, Pakistan would punch above their weight and make it a close series.
 
Hitman said:
Except that you are bringing up Dravid and Pointong's failure in 2 different countries respectively. While Miandad was a complete failure again a particular team overall, both home and away. And that team happened to be the best team of that time, and the finest team ever.
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So somehow failing against the best team of all time is more shameful than failing against the South Africa and India. Okay, there.
 
Rahul1 said:
Viv

Gavaskar

Border

Greg Chappell

Unfortunately i have to disagree with you.
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Easily ahead of Gavasker when you factor in ODIs and not many will rate Chappell and Border as superior batsmen. You are definitely allowed to disagree though.
 
Next.... Bring bowling, wk or other stats so that ONE Pakistani batsman ATLEAST could have SOMETHING to surpass x,y, z indian Batsman. Desperation level is simply facepalm worthy.
 
Bilal7 said:
Easily ahead of Gavasker when you factor in ODIs and not many will rate Chappell and Border as superior batsmen. You are definitely allowed to disagree though.
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LOL, Miandad ahead of Greg Chappell? Greg Chappell is arguably the second greatest Aussie batsman after Bradman.
 
Bilal7 said:
So somehow failing against the best team of all time is more shameful than failing against the South Africa and India. Okay, there.
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Ponting didn't fail against India. Ponting failed in India. At home, he has a good average against India. The point is that Miandad was absolutely pants down against the West Indies, both home and away, Both Sunny and Chappell did extremely well against West Indies. Therein lies the difference.
 
Ind lost the test series because batting contributions from no 6,7,8 from Englishmen. How many runs will Pak no 6,7. 8 can get?
 
He is certainly one of the most underrated batsman. People keep bringing up WI, he has 2 100s against them in WI. Every cricketer goes through some failures if Miandad didn't fail against WI, then he would be Averaging close to 60.

This only suggests that Miandad was too good for good team, it had to take the greatest team in the history of cricket to keep him quiet and he still scored 100s against them.

You know what they say the best bowlers step up their game against the best batmen, as they know he is to be feared. Miandad you GOAT...
 
Monsee said:
Here is the low down: Insert Any Pak player (any format/any era), bowler or batsman...you will rarely, if ever, find an Indian fan saying he was ahead of xyz Indian batsmen and xyz Indian bowlers (for bowlers they might accept some of our faster ones to be superior but only just); in all my years here, well over 13 or more, I have rarely ever seen this become untrue!
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Previous comments show the truth
 
Harsh Thakor said:
A name that is hardly mentioned is that of Gordon Greenidge.For a period in 1984-1987 he was arguably the best batsmen in the world.No batsmen of the 1980s blended aggression and defence so proportionately like a bulldozer and architect moulded into one.Greenidge in 1984 in England was ahead of Viv or Javed . Javed niggled opponents more than anyone and was the ultimate man to revive a sinking ship.Border was the better testbatsmen with his better consistency and overseas record but I would still have Javed in my team as he was more of a scourge in the eyes of great bowlers and had more natural skill.From 1987-1989 Javed overtook Viv. Border was never no 1. but an epitome of consistency.
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Well Said It's True Many Don't Realise
 
szrana said:
It wasn't some inconsequential series, it was the final of Australasia cup after which Pak started to dominate India in Odi's.
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The fact of the matter that the tournament had been abolished tells you it's status in international Cricket.
 
He was the best player Pakistan ever produced for under pressure situations. Asif Iqbal and him came to the party when classy players like Zaheer and others failed. Don't forget the class of bowlers in that time like Lille, Thomson, Hadlee, Ian Botham, Garner, Marsh, .....so many others. Most of the matches in his early careers didn't even use helmet and there was no trend to make such batting friendly wkts for ODIs.
 
rhony said:
A six that scarred a generation of Indians and that started Pak's domination over India for close to 15 years until Ganguly's India
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Maybe Pakistan were simply a better team during those times? I had to Google that they had a tournament called Australasia cup and the significance behind it. So yeah, Miandad's six came in a low-tier tournament and not many outside Pakistan even heard about it.
 
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Balthazar said:
Maybe Pakistan were simply a better team during those times? I had to Google that they had a tournament called Australasia cup and the significance behind it. So yeah, Miandad's six came in a low-tier tournament and not many outside Pakistan even heard about it.
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Because Of Less Electronic Media But Many People Remember
 
Monsee said:
Here is the low down: Insert Any Pak player (any format/any era), bowler or batsman...you will rarely, if ever, find an Indian fan saying he was ahead of xyz Indian batsmen and xyz Indian bowlers (for bowlers they might accept some of our faster ones to be superior but only just); in all my years here, well over 13 or more, I have rarely ever seen this become untrue!
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HOLYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY SMOKESSS BRO, you just described yourself when it comes to talking about the Indian players........ Creeppyyy...
 
Yes if you are considering both formats else there was gavaskar in tests but in odis i guess he was first batsman to do good from asia? or was there someone else before him.
 
Monsee said:
Here is the low down: Insert Any Pak player (any format/any era), bowler or batsman...you will rarely, if ever, find an Indian fan saying he was ahead of xyz Indian batsmen and xyz Indian bowlers (for bowlers they might accept some of our faster ones to be superior but only just); in all my years here, well over 13 or more, I have rarely ever seen this become untrue!
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And the same can be said when a Pakistan fan is asked to rate an Indian player. Don't play the victim here. Our fans are equally guilty for doing this. And deep deep down you know that is true.

All fans have biased for there team but Pakistan fans on this forum take the cake.
 
Laughable to see posters arguing on the fact that Miandad failed against WI means nothing. Well, the same posters were making claims that Virat Kohli cant be a great unless he performs in England, even though he overall did great against England.

In contrast, Miandad failed against the best team of his era, WI, both home and away and yet the same posters are defending him on it.

I can only imagine the scenario if this was against an Indian player and if an Indian had failed against the best team of that era.
 
It's laughable to see Indians coming up with "but but but he average 29 against WI!".

Why don't you do the same when it comes to Tendulkar?

That guy barely managed to average 30 against the Pakistan bowling at their peak. From 1989 to 2003, Sachin Tendulkar:

Inns: 12
AVerage: 32

Against Pakistani bowling in Tests.


So he's not an ATG anymore? Right?

Flawed logic.

Miandad certainly was the best Asian batsman of his era. And 2nd/3rd best in the world of his era as well.
[MENTION=133315]Hitman[/MENTION]
 
Hawkeye said:
It's laughable to see Indians coming up with "but but but he average 29 against WI!".

Why don't you do the same when it comes to Tendulkar?

That guy barely managed to average 30 against the Pakistan bowling at their peak. From 1989 to 2003, Sachin Tendulkar:

Inns: 12
AVerage: 32

Against Pakistani bowling in Tests.


So he's not an ATG anymore? Right?

Flawed logic.

Miandad certainly was the best Asian batsman of his era. And 2nd/3rd best in the world of his era as well.

[MENTION=133315]Hitman[/MENTION]
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There it is guys!! Another intangible filter for India batsmen ;

India batsmen V bowling at peak
 
WengerOut said:
There it is guys!! Another intangible filter for India batsmen ;

India batsmen V bowling at peak
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Of course. We are comparing 'eras'.

If you take out Sachin being any good in 1990s - early 2000s, what's left? That will not make him the best batsman of the world.
 
Hasan123 said:
And the same can be said when a Pakistan fan is asked to rate an Indian player. Don't play the victim here. Our fans are equally guilty for doing this. And deep deep down you know that is true.

All fans have biased for there team but Pakistan fans on this forum take the cake.
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I used to think that is right but sometimes you should read the IND forums as well. Extreme biases haha.
 
Updated Asian batsmen ranking is

Tendulkar
Gavaskar
Sangakkara
Kohli-The King
Miandad
Dravid
Younis(and this is after being biased towards Pak)
Sehwag
Aaloo
Laxman

Kohli-The King should surpass Sangakkara by the time he retires and his ODI legacy is such that he will go down as Asia's no. 1 or no. 2 batsmen of all-time.
 
happydavy said:
There are 2 reasons why you won't find many pundits talking too highly of Miandad

1. In Pakistan, Miandad was lbw eight times in 73 dismissals. Outside Pakistan, 25 times in 95. Just so that stats are put in context and before people jump on biased umpiring by home umpires of all countries - Gavaskar was lbw 10 times in 101 innings in India, and 7 times in 97 innings outside India.

2. Miandad averaged 29 against WI even after playing 16 test matches against them.
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Hitman said:
The first time he was adjudged LBW in Pakistan was in 85' or 86'. And if anyone has any doubts about the secret to that, just read Steve Waugh's autobiography. 'Don't bother appealing. This is my land, my rules' .... this was how Miandad egged Aussie players when they used to appeal against him for LBW in Pakistan.
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Abdullah Rabbani said:
These tactics used by every country that time why you don't say on other side that giving everytime lbw on appeal in away matches is revenge against him...

Best example of westindies vs pakistan test series 1988 and vs Australia in 1980's
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Miandad has an astounding average of more than 78 at home before the introduction of neutral umpires in the Lahore Test that began on Nov 7, 1986.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...6;spanval1=span;template=results;type=batting

During the same time his average abroad was 38, less than half his average at home:

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...6;spanval1=span;template=results;type=batting

After the introduction of neutral umpires his average at home fell to 39.9:

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...6;spanval2=span;template=results;type=batting

The excuse "These tactics used by every country that time" doesn't fly. Gavaskar's averages during the same time were 49 at home and 52 abroad.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...6;spanval1=span;template=results;type=batting

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...6;spanval1=span;template=results;type=batting

I remember India's Pakistan tour from the early 1980s. What went on was quite absurd.
 
Ab Fan said:
Updated Asian batsmen ranking is

Tendulkar
Gavaskar
Sangakkara
Kohli-The King
Miandad
Dravid
Younis(and this is after being biased towards Pak)
Sehwag
Aaloo
Laxman

Kohli-The King should surpass Sangakkara by the time he retires and his ODI legacy is such that he will go down as Asia's no. 1 or no. 2 batsmen of all-time.
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Nope....all formats combined, below will be the rankings:

Sachin
Kohli
Sanga
Gavaskar
Dravid
Sehwag
Miandad
Ganguly
Inzy
Jayasuriya
 
Ab Fan said:
Updated Asian batsmen ranking is

Tendulkar
Gavaskar
Sangakkara
Kohli-The King
Miandad
Dravid
Younis(and this is after being biased towards Pak)
Sehwag
Aaloo
Laxman

Kohli-The King should surpass Sangakkara by the time he retires and his ODI legacy is such that he will go down as Asia's no. 1 or no. 2 batsmen of all-time.
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A bit of modification, the updated list is: -

Tendulkar
Gavaskar
Sangakkara
Kohli-The King
Dravid
Miandad
Aaloo
Sehwag
Younis
Amarnath

So, Miandad is Asia's 6th greatest batsmen and behind four batsmen from India.
 
Canford Cliffs said:
Nope....all formats combined, below will be the rankings:

Sachin
Kohli
Sanga
Gavaskar
Dravid
Sehwag
Miandad
Ganguly
Inzy
Jayasuriya
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I am considering tests mostly and after some more modification, I have put the list.
 
Monsee said:
Not so quickly Jose, when India and Pak meet, especially in a series...rankings mean nothing aka zilch!

Examples: Pak in India 2005, Pak 2012 ODI series in India, even the 1987 series in India when no one was expecting Pak to dominate India in their home and boy did India got a Phainta in the ODI series as well losing the test series too!

Fact is that whenever there is a series between the two, most of the time, the weaker team has managed to punch above their weight; so, if there was test series between the two, don't expect a routine Indian victory just like that but for that to even happen, Indians (especially BCCI have to grow some anatomy part) to be willing to host Pak at home. This with the knowledge that if India loses or even drew, their houses will be pelted or burned!
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Rankings do have a meaning as it defines the quality of the team. And this difference was clearly visible in recently concluded Asia cup. Yes, Pak did beat in 2005 and 2012 but so did India in 2004 and 2006. But that is not the point. The ratings clearly suggest that India is a far superior test side and I would expect to beat Pak not only in Asia but anywhere in the planet with red ball cricket.

Also these rankings dont work when Ind and Pak meets etc., might work in T20s or in ODIs to a little extent. But you cant fluke wins in test match. In real 5 day cricket better team wins invariably and no one has doubt which is the better test team (BY FAR) at present.
 
Hawkeye said:
It's laughable to see Indians coming up with "but but but he average 29 against WI!".

Why don't you do the same when it comes to Tendulkar?

That guy barely managed to average 30 against the Pakistan bowling at their peak. From 1989 to 2003, Sachin Tendulkar:

Inns: 12
AVerage: 32

Against Pakistani bowling in Tests.


So he's not an ATG anymore? Right?

Flawed logic.

Miandad certainly was the best Asian batsman of his era. And 2nd/3rd best in the world of his era as well.

[MENTION=133315]Hitman[/MENTION]
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LOL, you need to do some research before typing. I already mentioned that Miandad was a complete disaster against the West Indies, both home and away, throughout his entire career. I did not take any time frame like you just did.

And when you speak about the time from 1989 till 2002, do you even realize how many Test series India played against Pakistan in that time period? Just 2 Test series. Out of them, Sachin played 1 series as a 16 year old kid, which was his debut series. He averaged 35 odd in that debut series of his. You really want to speak of that series considering the circumstances, and then use it to rationalize Miandad's career average of 29 against the West Indies? The next series was a 2 Test series played in 1999, where Sachin averaged 43 odd. Kindly check your facts before making claims.
 
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Canford Cliffs said:
Nope....all formats combined, below will be the rankings:

Sachin
Kohli
Sanga
Gavaskar
Dravid
Sehwag
Miandad
Ganguly
Inzy
Jayasuriya
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There is no point judging Gavaskar by his ODI performance, he was too late for ODIs.

For Tests, I would put Gavaskar ahead of Sanga and Kohli and on par with SRT for the simple reason that he was an opener. You need to add about 5 to the average of an opener when comparing him to other batsmen.
 
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Napa said:
Miandad has an astounding average of more than 78 at home before the introduction of neutral umpires in the Lahore Test that began on Nov 7, 1986.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...6;spanval1=span;template=results;type=batting

During the same time his average abroad was 38, less than half his average at home:

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...6;spanval1=span;template=results;type=batting

After the introduction of neutral umpires his average at home fell to 39.9:

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...6;spanval2=span;template=results;type=batting

The excuse "These tactics used by every country that time" doesn't fly. Gavaskar's averages during the same time were 49 at home and 52 abroad.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...6;spanval1=span;template=results;type=batting

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...6;spanval1=span;template=results;type=batting

I remember India's Pakistan tour from the early 1980s. What went on was quite absurd.
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I wonder whether anyone will have the cajones to reply to this post. Anyone?
 
Hitman said:
I wonder whether anyone will have the cajones to reply to this post. Anyone?
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Average Drop In His Last Three Year's When No Cricket Remain In It Don't Make It Controversial...

Sunil Gavaskar Is Ahead As Opener In Tests But Mile's Behind In Odi's This Thread About Overall A Man Who's Averaged Not Drop Under 50 In His Lifetime In Tests And Make 9 Consecutive 50's In ODI Best In WC Then Why He Is Not 2nd Best To Viv?

We Admire Sachin Is Best In This Era Why Indians Don't Believe Overall Imran And Javed Is Better Than K Dev And S Gavasker.
 
Abdullah Rabbani said:
We Admire Sachin Is Best In This Era Why Indians Don't Believe Overall Imran And Javed Is Better Than K Dev And S Gavasker.
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Imran is better than Kapil, no Indian would deny it...

Javed is better ODI batsmen than Vaskar but Vaskar was a pathetic ODI player :))..

In Test matches Vaskar is in a different league to Javed, Javed is no match...Just the performance against the WI by both players is more than enough to kill this argument
 
Romali_rotti said:
Imran is better than Kapil, no Indian would deny it...

Javed is better ODI batsmen than Vaskar but Vaskar was a pathetic ODI player :))..

In Test matches Vaskar is in a different league to Javed, Javed is no match...Just the performance against the WI by both players is more than enough to kill this argument
Click to expand...

Ha Ha Than Shoaib Mohammad Better Than Sunil Gavaskar
 
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Hitman said:
Except that you are bringing up Dravid and Pointong's failure in 2 different countries respectively. While Miandad was a complete failure again a particular team overall, both home and away. And that team happened to be the best team of that time, and the finest team ever.
Click to expand...

Pls don't make laughable posts. Shane Warne who's widely regarded as one of the greatest bowlers to ever grace the cricket field averages close to 50 in tests with the ball against India both at home and away. Similarly dravid plated like a tailender in SA.

Anybody can struggle against a particular bower or a particular team. It means absolutely nothing.
 
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Romali_rotti said:
Imran is better than Kapil, no Indian would deny it...

Javed is better ODI batsmen than Vaskar but Vaskar was a pathetic ODI player :))..

In Test matches Vaskar is in a different league to Javed, Javed is no match...Just the performance against the WI by both players is more than enough to kill this argument
Click to expand...

Kapil is light years behind Imran as an allrounder. It's actually a blasphemy to utter the name of someone like Kapil beside a great allrounder like Imran. The claim of Kapil being a great allrounder is all hot air without any substance.
 
Hitman said:
LOL, you need to do some research before typing. I already mentioned that Miandad was a complete disaster against the West Indies, both home and away, throughout his entire career. I did not take any time frame like you just did.

And when you speak about the time from 1989 till 2002, do you even realize how many Test series India played against Pakistan in that time period? Just 2 Test series. Out of them, Sachin played 1 series as a 16 year old kid, which was his debut series. He averaged 35 odd in that debut series of his. You really want to speak of that series considering the circumstances, and then use it to rationalize Miandad's career average of 29 against the West Indies? The next series was a 2 Test series played in 1999, where Sachin averaged 43 odd. Kindly check your facts before making claims.
Click to expand...

Sachin actually averaged 30, when he played 3 tests against Pak in 1999.
 
Heisenberg111 said:
Sachin actually averaged 30, when he played 3 tests against Pak in 1999.
Click to expand...

The Test series comprised of 2 Test matches, which was tied. He averaged 43 odd in those 2 Tests. Then a single Test match was organized after that series where that famous incident of him colliding with Akhtar resulted in his run out, and he missed out in that Test.
 
RainMan_ said:
Pls don't make laughable posts. Shane Warne who's widely regarded as one of the greatest bowlers to ever grace the cricket field averages close to 50 in tests with the ball against India both at home and away. Similarly dravid plated like a tailender in SA.

Anybody can struggle against a particular bower or a particular team. It means absolutely nothing.
Click to expand...

And how many spinners was Warne competing with during his time apart from Murali? Murali too struggled against India.

The point is that Miandad competed with the likes of Sunny, Chappell and Border during his time. And both Sunny and Chappell did exceedingly well against the best team of their time. That itself gives both of them a huge, huge edge over Miandad. Even Border did far better than Miandad against the West Indies, averaging just a shade below 40. That's the point.
 
Napa said:
Miandad has an astounding average of more than 78 at home before the introduction of neutral umpires in the Lahore Test that began on Nov 7, 1986.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...6;spanval1=span;template=results;type=batting

During the same time his average abroad was 38, less than half his average at home:

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...6;spanval1=span;template=results;type=batting

After the introduction of neutral umpires his average at home fell to 39.9:

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...6;spanval2=span;template=results;type=batting
Click to expand...

Hitman said:
I wonder whether anyone will have the cajones to reply to this post. Anyone?
Click to expand...

Abdullah Rabbani said:
Average Drop In His Last Three Year's When No Cricket Remain In It Don't Make It Controversial...

Sunil Gavaskar Is Ahead As Opener In Tests But Mile's Behind In Odi's This Thread About Overall A Man Who's Averaged Not Drop Under 50 In His Lifetime In Tests And Make 9 Consecutive 50's In ODI Best In WC Then Why He Is Not 2nd Best To Viv?

We Admire Sachin Is Best In This Era Why Indians Don't Believe Overall Imran And Javed Is Better Than K Dev And S Gavasker.
Click to expand...
[MENTION=133315]Hitman[/MENTION], you wanted an answer and got one. Whether you can make any sense of it is another matter.
 
Napa said:
[MENTION=133315]Hitman[/MENTION], you wanted an answer and got one. Whether you can make any sense of it is another matter.
Click to expand...

Don't you think I would have replied him by now if his response was worth a reply? :D

Just read the first sentence of his post and you'll get a proper measure of his comprehension skills.
 
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Hitman said:
The Test series comprised of 2 Test matches, which was tied. He averaged 43 odd in those 2 Tests. Then a single Test match was organized after that series where that famous incident of him colliding with Akhtar resulted in his run out, and he missed out in that Test.
Click to expand...

Got a golden duck in the 1st innings of the Kolkata test, and there is no guarantee that he would have won India the match, if he stayed on the crease in the 2nd innings. Also, he was helped by the Indian umpires, when he scored 136 in Chennai.
 
Heisenberg111 said:
Got a golden duck in the 1st innings of the Kolkata test, and there is no guarantee that he would have won India the match, if he stayed on the crease in the 2nd innings. Also, he was helped by the Indian umpires, when he scored 136 in Chennai.
Click to expand...

Really? Which decision, can you let us know?
 
Heisenberg111 said:
Got a golden duck in the 1st innings of the Kolkata test, and there is no guarantee that he would have won India the match, if he stayed on the crease in the 2nd innings. Also, he was helped by the Indian umpires, when he scored 136 in Chennai.
Click to expand...

Rather it was Pakistan who got help from the umpires in the 1st Test of the 2 Test series, when Moin Khan cheated a claimed a horrendous bumped catch of Ganguly, and the umpire gave him out.
 
Hitman said:
Rather it was Pakistan who got help from the umpires in the 1st Test of the 2 Test series, when Moin Khan cheated a claimed a horrendous bumped catch of Ganguly, and the umpire gave him out.
Click to expand...

He was lbw to Saqlain, not given. Maybe you can google the highlights or search on youtube. Umpiring in that match was horrendous, though. Remember Ganguly being given out when ball had clearly touched. the ground.
 
Javed was great but he struggled against the Windies. I guess if you are including both formats then yes he is second to Viv. But in tests he lags being Border, Chappel and Gavaskar.
 
Abdullah Rabbani said:
Average Drop In His Last Three Year's When No Cricket Remain In It Don't Make It Controversial...

Sunil Gavaskar Is Ahead As Opener In Tests But Mile's Behind In Odi's This Thread About Overall A Man Who's Averaged Not Drop Under 50 In His Lifetime In Tests And Make 9 Consecutive 50's In ODI Best In WC Then Why He Is Not 2nd Best To Viv?

We Admire Sachin Is Best In This Era Why Indians Don't Believe Overall Imran And Javed Is Better Than K Dev And S Gavasker.
Click to expand...

Because Javed is not better than Gavasakar.

Also, Mohammad Yousuf is in a very good test batsmen and a very good ODI batsmen category. That's all.
 
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