Is Mushfiqur Rahim comfortably better than all Pakistani batsmen except Babar Azam? (All formats)

[Rana]

OK guys, the Mushfiq not coming to Pakistan thread is being derailed by this debate. Please note, this thread is nothing personal against Mushfiq, nor is it to belittle Bangladeshi fans. Its purely a cricket discussion and thats all there is to it. Mushfiq is a good player and has done really well recently.

We can talk about statistics but I believe that would not give the real picture, even in the last 4-5 years players like Fakhar and Harris are on par with him and Imam ul Haq is better. He has nothing of note in T20, I would end up naming plenty of better T20 players. So lets focus more on sheer talent and Ability, quality as well. Is Mushfiq 'comfortably' better than the following names in each format?

ODI: Harris Sohail, Abid Ali, Imam Ul Haq, Fakhar Zaman

T20: Shoaib Malik, Fakhar Zaman, Sarfaraz Ahmed

Test: Azhar Ali, Asad Shafiq, Sarfaraz Ahmed, Harris Sohail, Abid Ali


I reiterate, the purpose of this thread is not to belittle Bangladesh or their players. Its a genuine cricket discussion.

 

[andy0204]

OK guys, the Mushfiq not coming to Pakistan thread is being derailed by this debate. Please note, this thread is nothing personal against Mushfiq, nor is it to belittle Bangladeshi fans. Its purely a cricket discussion and thats all there is to it. Mushfiq is a good player and has done really well recently.

We can talk about statistics but I believe that would not give the real picture, even in the last 4-5 years players like Fakhar and Harris are on par with him and Imam ul Haq is better. He has nothing of note in T20, I would end up naming plenty of better T20 players. So lets focus more on sheer talent and Ability, quality as well. Is Mushfiq 'comfortably' better than the following names in each format?

ODI: Harris Sohail, Abid Ali, Imam Ul Haq, Fakhar Zaman

T20: Shoaib Malik, Fakhar Zaman, Sarfaraz Ahmed

Test: Azhar Ali, Asad Shafiq, Sarfaraz Ahmed, Harris Sohail, Abid Ali


I reiterate, the purpose of this thread is not to belittle Bangladesh or their players. Its a genuine cricket discussion.

So Sarfaraz Ahmed is better than Mushfiq in tests
That guy has away centuries in Newzealand,WestIndies,Srilanka,India as a wicketkeeper batsman which something Sarfaraz will dream of.

 

[liam26]

Mushfiq has won matches for his team in T20s, Sarfaraz Ahmed is a nothing batsman compared to him.

Abid Ali is only a newbie and Haris Sohail is still in trial mode, Fakhar Zaman is a fluke. Musfiqur is better than all of them yes.

Bangaldesh dont really play too many Tests but still Azhar Ali and Shafiq would be rated slightly higher than Mushfiq but he is better than rest others.

 

[Titan24]

Mushfiq has won matches for his team in T20s, Sarfaraz Ahmed is a nothing batsman compared to him.

Abid Ali is only a newbie and Haris Sohail is still in trial mode, Fakhar Zaman is a fluke. Musfiqur is better than all of them yes.

Bangaldesh dont really play too many Tests but still Azhar Ali and Shafiq would be rated slightly higher than Mushfiq but he is better than rest others.

Fakhar averages 42 against Eng, 51 against India, 44 against NZ and these are top 3 ODI sides for you. Thats one hell of a fluke.

 

[FreePalestine]

Mushfiq has won matches for his team in T20s, Sarfaraz Ahmed is a nothing batsman compared to him.

Abid Ali is only a newbie and Haris Sohail is still in trial mode, Fakhar Zaman is a fluke. Musfiqur is better than all of them yes.

Bangaldesh dont really play too many Tests but still Azhar Ali and Shafiq would be rated slightly higher than Mushfiq but he is better than rest others.

This is all accurate. It is difficult to compare players young in their careers with Mushfiq. If [MENTION=2016]Rana[/MENTION] is asking who is currently the more accomplished cricketer Haris, Abid or Mushfiq then it would be Mushfiq. But you have to give cricketers more time to find their feet, prove their worth.

Azhar Shafiq higher than Mushfiq in tests, agreed.

 

[barah_admi]

People talking about this guy like its Australia losing Steve smith. How many tests have Bangladesh beaten pakistan in with Rahim playing? Heckbthe guy has an average career and can only be considered a great in lowly Bangladesh. Get over it.

 

[cricket.mad]

Impact wise mushi is better than all Pakistani batsman except the 'Great in making babar azam...no doubt ...some of his innings he played in recent time against quality oppositions are world class

 

[Titan24]

Mushfiqur Rahim impact wise in ODIs of last few years has been pretty good. He has been comfortably better than Jhadav, Pant, Iyer, Karthik, Pandey, Rahul, Chandimal, Mendis etc in ODIs.

Mushfiqur Rahim has played 216 ODIs and ofcourse there are few impactful and memorable knocks in them. Its difficult to compare guys who are yet to play 50 ODI matches but if people wanna compare first 50 matches of Rahim vs Haris, Imam (Already has same number of centuries as Rahim) than I dont think it will be much of a comparison. At the same time the way Mashfiq has performed in ODIs in last 3,4 years is really appreciable and makes him one of the go to middle order batsmen in ODIs in sub continent.

In tests there is nothing much to write home about and comparison with Azhar Ali and even Asad Shafiq is not valid.

In T20s he averages 20 with SR of 119 so I dont think anything else needs to be said.

 

[WhenSultansBowled]

To be fair, we only have Babar Azam in ODIs. Rest of our ODI batting is a joke.

In tests we can debate but all our batters are low on confidence.

T20Is are anyone's game any given day.

Mushy is a clutch player. Always love the way he bats against tougher teams!

 

[Itachi]

Bangladeshi players outperform most other players in meaningless matches.

The moment matches become crunch, or a KO, they fail to deliver under pressure whilst even any Pak batsman could deliver (except india in a wc).

I'll pick any pak batsman any day over unreliable Bangladeshi batsman.

 

[Rana]

To be fair, we only have Babar Azam in ODIs. Rest of our ODI batting is a joke.

In tests we can debate but all our batters are low on confidence.

T20Is are anyone's game any given day.

Mushy is a clutch player. Always love the way he bats against tougher teams!

How can they be such a joke when they have Harris Sohail averaging 46, Imam ul Haq with 7 ODI tons in 37 matches with an average of 53 and we also have Fakhar Zaman with an average of 46.

 

[Mesozoic]

Imam may be a better odi bat than him.

You could say Shafiq is a better Test player than him and Malik in T20s as well.

But when you consider all the three formats, none except Babar are even close to him. He will walk in to the Pak team in all the formats as a specialist bat let alone as a WK.

 

[Rana]

Imam may be a better odi bat than him.

You could say Shafiq is a better Test player than him and Malik in T20s as well.

But when you consider all the three formats, none except Babar are even close to him. He will walk in to the Pak team in all the formats as a specialist bat let alone as a WK.

Yes but considering the current Indian side he would walk into that side as well. Most likely in the New Zealand and South Africa sides also

 

[sweep_shot]

Abid Ali is looking like a decent batsman but he is still quite new to international cricket. I think it is too early to compare him with any player.

Haris is probably about to be dropped. Horribly out of form.

Only Babar is better than Mushfiq. Other comparisons are subjective.

 

[Titan24]

Abid Ali is looking like a decent batsman but he is still quite new to international cricket. I think it is too early to compare him with any player.

Haris is probably about to be dropped. Horribly out of form.

Only Babar is better than Mushfiq. Other comparisons are subjective.

Haris has been been great in ODIs so he will continue in that. Yes in tests there are question marks over his recent form and he was never perfect for T20 cricket.

 

[angrypathan]

Absolutely. Mushfiq would be the 3rd name on the team after Babar and Shaheen if he was Pakistani

 

[Mesozoic]

Yes but considering the current Indian side he would walk into that side as well. Most likely in the New Zealand and South Africa sides also

Ofcourse he would walk into the indian team as a WK bat. Not sure about South Africa though as de Kock is better.

 

[Rana]

Ofcourse he would walk into the indian team as a WK bat. Not sure about South Africa though as de Kock is better.

He would walk into all teams as a batsman alone, just not England.

The question is that is he ‘comfortably’ better than everyone except Babar in Pakistan. Quite a lot a divided opinion on this

 

[WhenSultansBowled]

How can they be such a joke when they have Harris Sohail averaging 46, Imam ul Haq with 7 ODI tons in 37 matches with an average of 53 and we also have Fakhar Zaman with an average of 46.

Fakhar seems to have forgotten how to bat. Imam can bat but he is unreliable against quality sides.

I could be wrong in Harris' case but he is nothing special. Looks good on paper but inconsistent.

Stats sometimes don't tell the whole story.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Feisty player.

 

[Waleed93]

We need to be honest on this one. Babar is the only batsman who is better than Mushfiq in this current Pakistan team, across all formats.

In Tests, as mentionned by [MENTION=149506]andy0204[/MENTION] , he has scored big runs overseas, and has a 200 to his name, as a wicket-keeper batsman. Of course, 3-4 years ago, Azhar was on a different level, but today's Azhar is so bad that he will make Mushfiq look like the second coming of Dhoni.

In ODIs, again, Babar is the only Pakistani batsman who outshines him. Mushfiq is easily better than Imam, Malik, Hafeez, Haris (would have been better without injuries) and Fakhar.

You can look at it from this point of view. If we are to make a combined Pakistan-Bangladesh XI for an ODI, the only names who will come out before Mushfiq will be Babar, Shakib and Tamim to an extent. Similarly, Mushfiq would walk into the current Asia Test-ODI XI ahead of every Pakistani, apart from Babar.

 

[Titan24]

Fakhar seems to have forgotten how to bat. Imam can bat but he is unreliable against quality sides.

I could be wrong in Harris' case but he is nothing special. Looks good on paper but inconsistent.

Stats sometimes don't tell the whole story.

Imam has a century (151) against Eng in Eng and against SA in SA in ODIs. He was also the man of the series vs SA.

 

[Hawkeye]

Imam
Haris
Fakhar
Azhar
Shafiq
Hafeez
Abid

They're all better than Mushfiq. Of course, no comparison at all with Babar.

Mushfiq is better than:
Shan Masood
Malik
Sarfraz

That's basically it.

 

[Mamoon]

The answer is a resounding yes. Pakistan is an embarrassing team in all formats and Mushfiq would clearly improve the team and prove to be the second best batsman after Babar.

 

[gazza619]

The answer is a resounding yes. Pakistan is an embarrassing team in all formats and Mushfiq would clearly improve the team and prove to be the second best batsman after Babar.

Mushfiq has a test average of 35, ODI average of 36 and T20 average of 20.

Pakistan must have a dozen batsmen (non retired) who are better than that.

Very clear that you working overtime on your agenda to look down at Pakistan.

 

[thecrusade911]

Fakhar's average coming down from 70 odd to 40 odd speaks itself that he has been found out. Also Mushfiq has played a lot more matches than him. I doubt Fakhar will maintain even 30 average over 150 matches.

 

[aloo paratha]

Mushfiqur Rahim has had a purple patch in ODIs in the last few years, but in Tests and T20s he is still mediocre. So no, definitely not all formats. In ODIs he is better than all except Babar and Haris.

 

[Rana]

Mushfiq has a test average of 35, ODI average of 36 and T20 average of 20.

Pakistan must have a dozen batsmen (non retired) who are better than that.

Very clear that you working overtime on your agenda to look down at Pakistan.

All of them didnt get 10 years to find their feet in international cricket averaging 20 like Mushfiq did. Most of them had to hit the ground running. Pakistan have axed Umar Akmal, Sohaib Maqsood, Ahmad Shahzad, Kamran Akmal due to inconsistency whilst all of them were fairly talented players.

 

[aloo paratha]

Fakhar's average coming down from 70 odd to 40 odd speaks itself that he has been found out. Also Mushfiq has played a lot more matches than him. I doubt Fakhar will maintain even 30 average over 150 matches.

No, his average lowering doesn't show he's been "found out", it's called regression to the mean. Nobody in the modern era can ever maintain a 70 average.

 

[Rana]

Mushfiqur Rahim has had a purple patch in ODIs in the last few years, but in Tests and T20s he is still mediocre. So no, definitely not all formats. In ODIs he is better than all except Babar and Haris.

and Imam? 7 tons in 37 games. 150 v England. 100 v South Africa away. Average of 53

 

[aloo paratha]

Mushfiq has a test average of 35, ODI average of 36 and T20 average of 20.

Pakistan must have a dozen batsmen (non retired) who are better than that.

Very clear that you working overtime on your agenda to look down at Pakistan.

The argument is that Mushfiq has improved a lot in the last few years, but then why are we comparing somebody's purple patch to another persons entire career? I'm sure if we narrow some peoples career down to a little time period their stats will look great. If we take Shoaib Maliks stats from 2015-2017, he averages 55 at a SR of 101. Just shows the flawed logic of some people here.

 

[Mamoon]

Mushfiq has a test average of 35, ODI average of 36 and T20 average of 20.

Pakistan must have a dozen batsmen (non retired) who are better than that.

Very clear that you working overtime on your agenda to look down at Pakistan.

I won’t comment on my so-called agenda because you and others are free to say and think what you want.

Mushfiq’s career stats do not present the real picture. He made his debut as a genuine 16-17 year old because he was fast-tracked into the side because of his wicket-keeping because of the retirement/decline of Khaled Masud. He was not ready for international cricket but was picked because he was the only proper wicket-keeper who could eventually take over from Masud once he retired.

It took him a long time to develop as an international class batsman but in the last 5-6 years, he has been excellent and has scored against very good attacks. He would walk into the Pakistan side and prove to be the second best batsman after Babar.

Pakistan clearly don’t have dozen superior batsmen and that is why we are a terribly average team, because although Mushfiq is excellent, he is no Kohli and a so-called big cricket nation like Pakistan should be producing better batsmen than him on regular basis.

 

[Mamoon]

To add to the above, I don’t agree with the purple patch argument. A purple patch doesn’t last for 5-6 years. He has clearly vastly improved and you would expect him to sustain his performances for another 3-4 years till he inevitably declines due to age.

Purple patch is what the likes of Fakhar and Hasan had in 2017-2018.

 

[Rana]

I won’t comment on my so-called agenda because you and others are free to say and think what you want.

Mushfiq’s career stats do not present the real picture. He made his debut as a genuine 16-17 year old because he was fast-tracked into the side because of his wicket-keeping because of the retirement/decline of Khaled Masud. He was not ready for international cricket but was picked because he was the only proper wicket-keeper who could eventually take over from Masud once he retired.

It took him a long time to develop as an international class batsman but in the last 5-6 years, he has been excellent and has scored against very good attacks. He would walk into the Pakistan side and prove to be the second best batsman after Babar.

Pakistan clearly don’t have dozen superior batsmen and that is why we are a terribly average team, because although Mushfiq is excellent, he is no Kohli and a so-called big cricket nation like Pakistan should be producing better batsmen than him on regular basis.

He is not better Than the names I mentioned for each format. End of

 

[gazza619]

I won’t comment on my so-called agenda because you and others are free to say and think what you want.

Mushfiq’s career stats do not present the real picture. He made his debut as a genuine 16-17 year old because he was fast-tracked into the side because of his wicket-keeping because of the retirement/decline of Khaled Masud. He was not ready for international cricket but was picked because he was the only proper wicket-keeper who could eventually take over from Masud once he retired.

It took him a long time to develop as an international class batsman but in the last 5-6 years, he has been excellent and has scored against very good attacks. He would walk into the Pakistan side and prove to be the second best batsman after Babar.

Pakistan clearly don’t have dozen superior batsmen and that is why we are a terribly average team, because although Mushfiq is excellent, he is no Kohli and a so-called big cricket nation like Pakistan should be producing better batsmen than him on regular basis.

It doesnt matter if Mushfiq made his debut at 16 or as an infant.

Just to prove you are wrong again here is his average by year in tests. How come he has been excellent in the last 5-6 years? Geez talk about double standards:

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Rana]

I love the way the man who is very fast at writing off Pak players justifies how a bang average cricketer was allowed to be average/below par for a decade but improved vastly in the last 4-5 years of his career hence he is ‘comfortably’ better than all of Pakistan’s batsmen bar 1.

This is the reality we have to deal with on a daily basis on this forum as Pakistan fans

 

[topspin]

I won’t comment on my so-called agenda because you and others are free to say and think what you want.

Mushfiq’s career stats do not present the real picture. He made his debut as a genuine 16-17 year old because he was fast-tracked into the side because of his wicket-keeping because of the retirement/decline of Khaled Masud. He was not ready for international cricket but was picked because he was the only proper wicket-keeper who could eventually take over from Masud once he retired.

It took him a long time to develop as an international class batsman but in the last 5-6 years, he has been excellent and has scored against very good attacks. He would walk into the Pakistan side and prove to be the second best batsman after Babar.

Pakistan clearly don’t have dozen superior batsmen and that is why we are a terribly average team, because although Mushfiq is excellent, he is no Kohli and a so-called big cricket nation like Pakistan should be producing better batsmen than him on regular basis.

Exactly what I was saying to warcry yesterday.

This thread proves that a lot of posters on here don't have the ability to analyse stats with context because they merely take averages at face value. For e.g. I was told yesterday that Imad Wasim is a better batsman than Mushfiqur because of his higher average and strike rate. It just shows that the delusion on PP is real.

Apart from Babar, Mushfiqur is well ahead of all the other Pakistan batsmen. There is no two ways about it. Simple minds of the green tinted hype brigade can't comprehend this.

 

[gazza619]

I love the way the man who is very fast at writing off Pak players justifies how a bang average cricketer was allowed to be average/below par for a decade but improved vastly in the last 4-5 years of his career hence he is ‘comfortably’ better than all of Pakistan’s batsmen bar 1.

This is the reality we have to deal with on a daily basis on this forum as Pakistan fans

Exactly. King of double standards they are.

Even in the last 4-5 years Mushfiq has been average. Check my previous post.

 

[Rana]

Exactly what I was saying to warcry yesterday.

This thread proves that a lot of posters on here don't have the ability to analyse stats with context because they merely take averages at face value. For e.g. I was told yesterday that Imad Wasim is a better batsman than Mushfiqur because of his higher average and strike rate. It just shows that the delusion on PP is real.

Apart from Babar, Mushfiqur is well ahead of all the other Pakistan batsmen. There is no two ways about it. Simple minds of the green tinted hype brigade can't comprehend this.

Bro read the first post. I clearly said that we cannot take stats and averages into account otherwise Mushfiq wouldn’t get past guys who were dropped from the Pakistan team. When [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] made the initial remark it was simply out of his uninformed bias against Pakistan in consistently degrading its players. The response was simply based on Quality and Talent, the stats in that case would help build the case.

I reiterate, Mushfiq is not a better Batsman than Harris Sohail, Imam ul Haq and Abid Ali in ODIs. Fakhar has been below par but he in his ‘purple patch’ is a better player than Mushfiq as well.

 

[FreePalestine]

The answer is a resounding yes. Pakistan is an embarrassing team in all formats and Mushfiq would clearly improve the team and prove to be the second best batsman after Babar.

I wouldn’t go that far. He is an experienced player, but would he be the second best bat in our odi, test, t20 teams? No way.. You would expect several players to outscore him in a variety of different formats. It is just that he is the most accomplished, so he is technically ahead of all these players atm. Haris, Alam, Imam, perhaps Abid, Rizwan are not that bad in their respective formats. But yes, batting is looking particularly wobbly these days and no real standouts apart from Babar on current form.

 

[topspin]

Bro read the first post. I clearly said that we cannot take stats and averages into account otherwise Mushfiq wouldn’t get past guys who were dropped from the Pakistan team. When [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] made the initial remark it was simply out of his uninformed bias against Pakistan in consistently degrading its players. The response was simply based on Quality and Talent, the stats in that case would help build the case.

I reiterate, Mushfiq is not a better Batsman than Harris Sohail, Imam ul Haq and Abid Ali in ODIs. Fakhar has been below par but he in his ‘purple patch’ is a better player than Mushfiq as well.

I have read all the posts but other posters are using Mushfiqur's average which is unjust because he was fast tracked at 16, when he was so raw, he was actually below international standard at the very beginning of his career. But, he got picked because he was the best that Bangladesh had at that time.

Also Bangladesh were awful in all formats during the 2000s and early 2010s.

One has to be very ignorant to ignore the above circumstances. As mentioned yesterday he has averaged c.50 between 2014-2019 in ODIs. Not to forget, at a decent strike rate too.

Mamoon has his biased views, but in this instance he's actually saying the hard truth.

If you rate those batsmen more than Mushfiqur in ODIs that's your opinion and you're entitled to that, but my advice would be not to look too much into the averages of Imam and Fakhar because they have deficiencies in their technique. Both of them have got exposed. Also, I think it's outrageous to establish that Abid > Mushfiqur in 50 over cricket given the inexperience of the former.

 

[Rana]

I have read all the posts but other posters are using Mushfiqur's average which is unjust because he was fast tracked at 16, when he was so raw, he was actually below international standard at the very beginning of his career. But, he got picked because he was the best that Bangladesh had at that time.

Also Bangladesh were awful in all formats during the 2000s and early 2010s.

One has to be very ignorant to ignore the above circumstances. As mentioned yesterday he has averaged c.50 between 2014-2019 in ODIs. Not to forget, at a decent strike rate too.

Mamoon has his biased views, but in this instance he's actually saying the hard truth.

If you rate those batsmen more than Mushfiqur in ODIs that's your opinion and you're entitled to that, but my advice would be not to look too much into the averages of Imam and Fakhar because they have deficiencies in their technique. Both of them have got exposed. Also, I think it's outrageous to establish that Abid > Mushfiqur in 50 over cricket given the inexperience of the former.

Abid Ali has a list A average rounding up to 40 with a top score of 209*. The guy will be prolific as long as he gets a long run and by what I have seen, he is a better batsman than Mushfiq. You don’t need him to score double tons away from home against New Zealand to prove this at this very point. I would equally argue that Ollie Pope is a better batsman than Mushfiq and he is only just starting his international career also.

 

[topspin]

Abid Ali has a list A average rounding up to 40 with a top score of 209*. The guy will be prolific as long as he gets a long run and by what I have seen, he is a better batsman than Mushfiq. You don’t need him to score double tons away from home against New Zealand to prove this at this very point. I would equally argue that Ollie Pope is a better batsman than Mushfiq and he is only just starting his international career also.

Your logic doesn't differ from those who got so carried away that they actually claimed that Hasan Ali > Bumrah and Fakhar > Rohit on the day when Pakistan beat India in that CT win. The premise of their argument was that the two Pakistanis were not only the two best players in the tournament but also because of their superior stats over their Indian counterparts (at the time). At the end of the day we know how that turned out, eggs on their faces!

 

[Rana]

Your logic doesn't differ from those who got so carried away that they actually claimed that Hasan Ali > Bumrah and Fakhar > Rohit on the day when Pakistan beat India in that CT win. The premise of their argument was that the two Pakistanis were not only the two best players in the tournament but also because of their superior stats over their Indian counterparts (at the time). At the end of the day we know how that turned out, eggs on their faces!

No my logic is based on pure quality+talent and not stats.

 

[SARJ_BD]

Mushfiq is definitely better than Haris Sohail, Imam, Fakhar, Shoaib Malik.

It is a disgrace for Mushfiq to be compared with Sarfraz. Sarfraz is a nothing batsman. It is as if you're comparing Tata Nano with BMW

Azhar Ali and Asad Shafiq is better than Mushfiq though.

Abid Ali is still very young in cricketing world to be compared with anyone. But I strongly believe he can become the 2nd best batsman of Pakistan in ODI and Test.

 

[Hasan123]

Mushfiqar is better than every single batter in Pakistan not named Babar Azam.

 

[Titan24]

Mushfiq is definitely better than Haris Sohail, Imam, Fakhar, Shoaib Malik.

It is a disgrace for Mushfiq to be compared with Sarfraz. Sarfraz is a nothing batsman. It is as if you're comparing Tata Nano with BMW

Azhar Ali and Asad Shafiq is better than Mushfiq though.

Abid Ali is still very young in cricketing world to be compared with anyone. But I strongly believe he can become the 2nd best batsman of Pakistan in ODI and Test.

Imam has 7 100s (Including 150 in Eng and Man of the series in SA) in 37 matches with better average while Mushfiq has 7 100s in 216 matches. What standard are you exactly using for such a straight forward statement as definitely better?

Yes he has played more matches (Almost 179 more matches) so obviously he has created more over all impact. Also both bat an entirely different positions so I am not sure what metric are you using for comparison.

Mushfiq averages 35 in tests with 6 100s while Azhar Ali averages 42 with 16 100s (A 300 and a double 100 in Aus) while Asad averages 39 with 12 100s.

Again what standard are you using to give these statements. Are we considering some club cricket or tape ball cricket tournaments which we dont know about?

Yes Malik and and Rahim have similar records in terms of batting in ODIs so that is something which is comparable.

 

[Titan24]

Imam has 7 100s (Including 150 in Eng and Man of the series in SA) in 37 matches with better average while Mushfiq has 7 100s in 216 matches. What standard are you exactly using for such a straight forward statement as definitely better?

Yes he has played more matches (Almost 179 more matches) so obviously he has created more over all impact. Also both bat an entirely different positions so I am not sure what metric are you using for comparison.

Mushfiq averages 35 in tests with 6 100s while Azhar Ali averages 42 with 16 100s (A 300 and a double 100 in Aus) while Asad averages 39 with 12 100s.

Again what standard are you using to give these statements. Are we considering some club cricket or tape ball cricket tournaments which we dont know about?

Yes Malik and and Rahim have similar records in terms of batting in ODIs so that is something which is comparable.

[MENTION=140230]SARJ_BD[/MENTION] As you have already admitted that Azhar and Asad are better so there is no point of discussing them.

 

[Titan24]

I am not sure why people are comparing openers with Rahim and comparing different formats. Other than Kohli, Babar, and probably Shakib, Mathews and Haris Sohail (Due to his WC efforts) which are close I dont think performance and consistency wise there is better middle order batsmen in subcontinent than Rahim in ODIs.

In tests and T20s there are many so not sure about blanket statements some are passing.

 

[ads101]

Yes. We can't keep underrating this guy on the forum, yes he used to be awful but has been consistently good for years now. He's not the same batsmen he was 10 years ago.

 

[BDfanforever]

In ODIs, Mushy is on par with Babar. In Tests and T20, I would imagine even plenty of Big Bash players would be better than Mushy.

 

[pratiktc]

ODIs it is no contest. Mushfiq wipes the floor with likes of Fakhar, Imam, Haris. He is a high quality middle order bat who has developed great gears.

In Tests, Azhar will finish a better batsman, but honestly in last 3 yrs Mushfiq has been better. Same for inconsistent Asad as well.

Rest test batsmen not worth mentioning in Mushfiq's class

 

[Banton10]

He is a perfect no.4 batsman in one day cricket.

 

[Usman Chadda]

To be fair, we only have Babar Azam in ODIs. Rest of our ODI batting is a joke.

In tests we can debate but all our batters are low on confidence.

T20Is are anyone's game any given day.

Mushy is a clutch player. Always love the way he bats against tougher teams!

Yet his team cannot suck more.

I get that Rahim not coming is a big blow for Bangladesh, but let's not make him some world-class player here. As far as clutch is concerned, Mahmadullah takes that title quite easily.

 

[leg-side-flick]

He is better than most....

 

[JibranAnsari]

No.

 

[Mamoon]

He is not better Than the names I mentioned for each format. End of

That is why I said this is pointless.

You didn’t start this thread with an open mind regardless of your disingenuous claim in the OP. You have already made your mind up and you just want to disagree with people to boost your ego. Well you have done that so I hope you are satisfied now.

 

[Mamoon]

I love the way the man who is very fast at writing off Pak players justifies how a bang average cricketer was allowed to be average/below par for a decade but improved vastly in the last 4-5 years of his career hence he is ‘comfortably’ better than all of Pakistan’s batsmen bar 1.

This is the reality we have to deal with on a daily basis on this forum as Pakistan fans

If a Pakistani batsman turns out to be as good as Mushfiq after getting a long rope of 10-12 years, I will appreciate him and consider him a quality player.

For example, Umar has been a dud since 2012, but if he makes a comeback now and performs like Mushfiq over the next 5-6 years, I will appreciate him for turning a corner.

However, I cannot give imaginary points to players who have been dropped after years of failure and didn’t get another chance to prove themselves. I cannot imagine players who would have done better than Mushfiq after XYZ years.

Imaginary players apart, when I look at Pakistan’s batting over the last few years, it is very clear to me that Mushfiq would walk into our team and be our second best batsman after Babar.

 

[Mamoon]

It doesnt matter if Mushfiq made his debut at 16 or as an infant.

Just to prove you are wrong again here is his average by year in tests. How come he has been excellent in the last 5-6 years? Geez talk about double standards:

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I beg to differ. I thank you for providing these stats because they support my claim.

I will ignore 2019 because he has only played 3 Tests, even though it has been a terrible year for Pakistan.

He averaged 35 in 2018, a year where Pakistan lost in the UAE to New Zealand and Azhar Ali was a walking wicket and Babar was just about finding his feet in Test cricket. Shafiq was doing what Shafiq does, so someone like Mushfiq with his prowess against spin bowling would have been a vital addition to the team and could have prevented a series defeat against New Zealand.

In 2017, he averaged 54 and scored splendid hundreds in New Zealand and India. This was another shocking year for Pakistan where they lost in the UAE to Sri Lanka. Babar was failing in Tests, Azhar’s purple patch was coming to an end and Shafiq was still Shafiq.

In 2016, he didn’t do well but played 2 Tests only. In order to be fair, if we can ignore a decent 2019 because of the low number of matches, we should also ignore a poor 2016 for the same purposes.

2015 was a bad year.

In 2014, he obviously wouldn’t be our second best batsman because of the presence of Younis and Misbah, but he should be in the side because of an average around 40.

In 2013, he averaged 54 so he walks into the team in that year.

In 2012, he was poor but just 2 matches.

Our batting was a circus in 2010-11 so he definitely gets into the team.

Based on these numbers, we can draw the following conclusions:

- in the last decade, 2015 was probably the only year where you legitimately claim that Mushfiq did not deserve to be in the Pakistan Test side, in spite of the fact that we had Younis and Misbah back then.

- since the retirement of Younis and Misbah, and the decline of Azhar and Sarfraz and the perpetual mediocrity of Shafiq, Mushfiq is immediately promoted as a major batsman in our lineup. In fact in the year 2017, he would be our best Test batsman.

From 2018 to 2019, he would be relegated as our second best batsman after Babar.

 

[gazza619]

I beg to differ. I thank you for providing these stats because they support my claim.

I will ignore 2019 because he has only played 3 Tests, even though it has been a terrible year for Pakistan.

He averaged 35 in 2018, a year where Pakistan lost in the UAE to New Zealand and Azhar Ali was a walking wicket and Babar was just about finding his feet in Test cricket. Shafiq was doing what Shafiq does, so someone like Mushfiq with his prowess against spin bowling would have been a vital addition to the team and could have prevented a series defeat against New Zealand.

In 2017, he averaged 54 and scored splendid hundreds in New Zealand and India. This was another shocking year for Pakistan where they lost in the UAE to Sri Lanka. Babar was failing in Tests, Azhar’s purple patch was coming to an end and Shafiq was still Shafiq.

In 2016, he didn’t do well but played 2 Tests only. In order to be fair, if we can ignore a decent 2019 because of the low number of matches, we should also ignore a poor 2016 for the same purposes.

2015 was a bad year.

In 2014, he obviously wouldn’t be our second best batsman because of the presence of Younis and Misbah, but he should be in the side because of an average around 40.

In 2013, he averaged 54 so he walks into the team in that year.

In 2012, he was poor but just 2 matches.

Our batting was a circus in 2010-11 so he definitely gets into the team.

Based on these numbers, we can draw the following conclusions:

- in the last decade, 2015 was probably the only year where you legitimately claim that Mushfiq did not deserve to be in the Pakistan Test side, in spite of the fact that we had Younis and Misbah back then.

- since the retirement of Younis and Misbah, and the decline of Azhar and Sarfraz and the perpetual mediocrity of Shafiq, Mushfiq is immediately promoted as a major batsman in our lineup. In fact in the year 2017, he would be our best Test batsman.

From 2018 to 2019, he would be relegated as our second best batsman after Babar.

I appreciate your year by year detailed analysis on Mushfiq but I was commenting on your claim that Mushfiq has been excellent over the last 5/6 years (which he clearly he hasnt been even by Pakistani standards).

If you were to dig deep into Mushfiq’s test stats you would find that he has played majority of his cricket at home (a staggering 58%). He has played zero tests in Australia out of 69. Yes zero!

Compare this to Azhar Ali who has been obviously disadvantaged for not playing in Pakistan but for argument sake if we look at percentage of his games in UAE/Pakistan it adds up to 38%. He has played 5 tests in Australia which obviously deflates the average of most batsmen from sub continent.

Compare this to Asad Shafiq and if we look at percentage of his games in UAE/Pakistan it adds up to 44%. He has also played 5 tests in Australia.

I have no doubt Mushfiq would make a place in our ODI line up but thats it really. Even though Mushfiq has played 44% of his ODI cricket against Zimbabwe/WI/Aghan and other minnow nations. This has obviously helped him maintain his average.

We recently saw in Pakistan tests vs SL how playing at home is such a big advantage and its not the same as playing in UAE. I reckon with all my honestly that if Mushfiq was a Pakistani he would have averaged in the 20’s in all formats and would have been scrapped after 2 years.

 

[Minnowbasher]

No offence but I reckon hafeez and Malik are better than mushfiq.
If mushi is so good how come Bangladesh have barely won anything against top teams while he has been playing.
Even haris could be considered better than him he played a match winning innings against both nzl and SA in the world cup as well as having overall better stats.

 

[Rana]

ODIs it is no contest. Mushfiq wipes the floor with likes of Fakhar, Imam, Haris. He is a high quality middle order bat who has developed great gears.

In Tests, Azhar will finish a better batsman, but honestly in last 3 yrs Mushfiq has been better. Same for inconsistent Asad as well.

Rest test batsmen not worth mentioning in Mushfiq's class

Fakhar, Imam and Harris all average more than him, they all arrived on the scene early after Mushfiqs golden period in cricket and didn’t average 16 for 10 years

 

[Rana]

That is why I said this is pointless.

You didn’t start this thread with an open mind regardless of your disingenuous claim in the OP. You have already made your mind up and you just want to disagree with people to boost your ego. Well you have done that so I hope you are satisfied now.

Read your words and reflect on everything you post on this forum

 

[big_gamer007]

All formats combined then yes, he is better than anyone in Pakistan team minus Babar. Add to that his keeping, he will walk into most sides.

Pakistan batting is in rebuilding phase after a poor decade so it's no surprise they don't have any quality batsmen minus Babar.

 

[big_gamer007]

That is why I said this is pointless.

You didn’t start this thread with an open mind regardless of your disingenuous claim in the OP. You have already made your mind up and you just want to disagree with people to boost your ego. Well you have done that so I hope you are satisfied now.

It's got to do with human psychology, I think a lot of people in Pakistan can't fathom the fact a Bangladeshi player can be better than their players. Earlier it used to be the mentality against Indians , now that Indians have went into another tier altogether and Bangladesh has raised their game somewhat (or Pakistan has declined massively) the psychology is getting hurt.

These sort of threads are mostly to satisfy own ego which is hurt from the poor performances do living slightly deluded life gives satisfaction and heals the bruised ego.

Nothing wrong in this, as a doctor you should appreciate if it gives happiness to people without causing harm to anyone.

 

[gazza619]

It's got to do with human psychology, I think a lot of people in Pakistan can't fathom the fact a Bangladeshi player can be better than their players. Earlier it used to be the mentality against Indians , now that Indians have went into another tier altogether and Bangladesh has raised their game somewhat (or Pakistan has declined massively) the psychology is getting hurt.

These sort of threads are mostly to satisfy own ego which is hurt from the poor performances do living slightly deluded life gives satisfaction and heals the bruised ego.

Nothing wrong in this, as a doctor you should appreciate if it gives happiness to people without causing harm to anyone.

Welcome to the thread, we all appreciate a good player and Mushfiq is one. We also believe in facts and figures. You clearly haven't read many posts on here and jumped the gun.

Doctor sahab was saying that Mushfiq is second best thing since telephone was invented which clearly he isnt. (Mind the sarcasm).

Most people on here agree that Mushfiq makes it to the Pakistan ODI eleven. Would be good if you can prove your thoughts with some numbers next time.

 

[big_gamer007]

Welcome to the thread, we all appreciate a good player and Mushfiq is one. We also believe in facts and figures. You clearly haven't read many posts on here and jumped the gun.

Doctor sahab was saying that Mushfiq is second best thing since telephone was invented which clearly he isnt. (Mind the sarcasm).

Most people on here agree that Mushfiq makes it to the Pakistan ODI eleven. Would be good if you can prove your thoughts with some numbers next time.

You don't need numbers simple logic dictates the fact mushfiq will be second best batsmen in Pakistan right now.

Majority of current Pakistani batsmen are not all 3 format players. The only ones are Babar (obviously he's a top 5 player) and Harris and Abid. Out of these 2 one is totally new and the other is injured most of the times and still building up his place in team.

It's not that Mushfiq is a world class batsmen, no one is saying that but his competition is with current lot of Pakistani players in 3 formats who are Babar, Harris and Abid. So, he's clearly better than the latter two because of obvious reasons.

Asad might be slightly better in tests no doubt. But he is not in reckoning since he doesn't play 2 other formats.
Azhar's overall career of course is way ahead of Mushfiq but his form in last 2-3 years makes him currently slightly behind Mushi in tests. If he lifts his game he will become better than Mushi in tests no doubt since his ceiling as a test bat is was always higher than Mushi.

Hafeez and Malik are LOI players.

Imam has potential to be top quality, with time he will take over Mushi.

I am no fan of Mushi but his competition is literally non existent with Pakistani batsmen.

Do you need facts and stats for this?

 

[Rana]

It's got to do with human psychology, I think a lot of people in Pakistan can't fathom the fact a Bangladeshi player can be better than their players. Earlier it used to be the mentality against Indians , now that Indians have went into another tier altogether and Bangladesh has raised their game somewhat (or Pakistan has declined massively) the psychology is getting hurt.

These sort of threads are mostly to satisfy own ego which is hurt from the poor performances do living slightly deluded life gives satisfaction and heals the bruised ego.

Nothing wrong in this, as a doctor you should appreciate if it gives happiness to people without causing harm to anyone.

Posts like this...where has anyone tried to undermine Bengalis? There are plenty of decent people on this forum who can argue without such backward thinking. Nor do they have hidden agendas to promote a certain set of players

 

[Rana]

You don't need numbers simple logic dictates the fact mushfiq will be second best batsmen in Pakistan right now.

Majority of current Pakistani batsmen are not all 3 format players. The only ones are Babar (obviously he's a top 5 player) and Harris and Abid. Out of these 2 one is totally new and the other is injured most of the times and still building up his place in team.

It's not that Mushfiq is a world class batsmen, no one is saying that but his competition is with current lot of Pakistani players in 3 formats who are Babar, Harris and Abid. So, he's clearly better than the latter two because of obvious reasons.

Asad might be slightly better in tests no doubt. But he is not in reckoning since he doesn't play 2 other formats.
Azhar's overall career of course is way ahead of Mushfiq but his form in last 2-3 years makes him currently slightly behind Mushi in tests. If he lifts his game he will become better than Mushi in tests no doubt since his ceiling as a test bat is was always higher than Mushi.

Hafeez and Malik are LOI players.

Imam has potential to be top quality, with time he will take over Mushi.

I am no fan of Mushi but his competition is literally non existent with Pakistani batsmen.

Do you need facts and stats for this?

Imam in 37 games at the age of 23 has achieved more than Mushy in ODI

 

[big_gamer007]

Imam in 37 games at the age of 23 has achieved more than Mushy in ODI

Imam is an opener and Mushi is number 4/5 WK batsmen. Their roles are different, you will always see openers or #3 having bulk of runs or 100s. Mushi has played some good clutch innings which if you won't can't judge in numbers when comparing to an opener. A 30-40 run innings at crucial time is sometimes better than a losing 100. But stats don't show that, hence the whole thread and debate using facts when comparing a #4/5 with opener is just absurd.

Test + T20 + ODI - You think imam right now is better than Mushi? If you feel so then that's your opinion, however, for me it will take him a few years and he can surely take over Mushi.

Who are other options Mushi is fighting against?

 

[gazza619]

Imam is an opener and Mushi is number 4/5 WK batsmen. Their roles are different, you will always see openers or #3 having bulk of runs or 100s. Mushi has played some good clutch innings which if you won't can't judge in numbers when comparing to an opener. A 30-40 run innings at crucial time is sometimes better than a losing 100. But stats don't show that, hence the whole thread and debate using facts when comparing a #4/5 with opener is just absurd.

Test + T20 + ODI - You think imam right now is better than Mushi? If you feel so then that's your opinion, however, for me it will take him a few years and he can surely take over Mushi.

Who are other options Mushi is fighting against?

The thread is about Mushfiq 'the batsman'

Dont think it will be fair to change the topic to Mushfiq 'the WK batsman'

 

[big_gamer007]

The thread is about Mushfiq 'the batsman'

Dont think it will be fair to change the topic to Mushfiq 'the WK batsman'

I didn't change it to that, my post said Mushi as a batsmen can't be compared to an opener like Imam purely on the basis of stats. Not just Mushi any #4/5 batsmen will have poorer stats than any opener, that's just how the game is. The roles are totally different.

Having said the above, some #5/6 will have higher average than openers because of not outs. But #4 is someone who is in the middle can't boost average a lot of times and can't get enough balls to face enough times.

So you can't just compare on basis of numbers like you are doing right now. In reality it doesn't work like that.

Now, I will ask again Mushi the batsman (all formats) is competing against who all in Pakistan team??

I would.br really happy to accept if there is anyone better than Mushi the batsmen bar Babar. But so far I haven't heard a compelling argument for any batsmen.

 

[big_gamer007]

Posts like this...where has anyone tried to undermine Bengalis? There are plenty of decent people on this forum who can argue without such backward thinking. Nor do they have hidden agendas to promote a certain set of players

Didn't mean you or this thread in particular, I meant in general and you have to take a look at other threads such as BcB not touring or Mushi not touring or many other BD threads to take a hint.

It wasn't meant for you particularly and didn't mean to offend you.

 

[ChennaiFan]

The answer is a resounding yes. Pakistan is an embarrassing team in all formats and Mushfiq would clearly improve the team and prove to be the second best batsman after Babar.

Pretty much agree with this.

 

[Rana]

T20i Myth debunked

Babar and Malik are better than Mushfiq in T20s

 

[Mamoon]

Myth debunked because Malik scored runs against a weak attack while Mushfiq......didn’t play.

The wisdom and insight of some posters make you feel jealous at times.

 

[topspin]

T20i Myth debunked

Babar and Malik are better than Mushfiq in T20s

Lol rubbish.

Mushfiqur is far more competent player of pace. Shoaib Malik's batting against quicker bowlers is substandard.

 

[Rana]

Myth debunked because Malik scored runs against a weak attack while Mushfiq......didn’t play.

The wisdom and insight of some posters make you feel jealous at times.

Talk for yourself. Not a single valid proof that Mushfiq is a better T20 player than Malik besides pure hatred

 

[Rana]

Lol rubbish.

Mushfiqur is far more competent player of pace. Shoaib Malik's batting against quicker bowlers is substandard.

Malik plays in the middle order to tackle spinners, he is successful at that. Mushfiq plays in the middle as well....oh but Malik statistically and in quality is a better player. What is it with you guys and disrespect for good Pakistani players?

 

[Mamoon]

Talk for yourself. Not a single valid proof that Mushfiq is a better T20 player than Malik besides pure hatred

Did this match provide the proof that you were looking for? If yes, let me be happy for you.