Is Ravindra Jadeja a more effective spinner than Ravi Ashwin?

[Varun]

Seems so, especially on decks which aren't too conducive to turn.

Vindicates Dhoni slightly when he used to pick Jadeja over Ashwin in overseas conditions when only one tweaker was required.

Ashwin is a better batsman though, I'll give him that.

 

[joly]

Ashwin is going through a bad p Ashwin sthase, Jadeja has improved a lot,Ashwin still ahead ..so far

 

[R0H1T]

Yes, very easily. Looking at him closely this season, nearly every home test, what's clear is that it isn't just his accuracy that gets him wickets. On the flat wickets his pace, spin & accuracy is a deadly trio like no other.

On turning tracks the pace at which he bowls at, unless the ball is a straighter one or hits the in/outside of the stumps most players will miss the ball. This was very evident in Mumbai & even Nagpur/Pune looking at his returns. With Ashwin you get more time & more variety, so on flatter tracks you get yourself out more often than not, Jadeja gets you out even on flat pitches much more regularly than Ashwin.

What's also evident is that batters take less chances against Jadeja, look at his ER, not unlike Kumble.

 

[Zak_Fan]

Compared to an unfit Ashwin, Jadeja is easily superior. Otherwise too, Jadeja is as good.

 

[Romali_rotti]

Jadeja reminds of a young Saqain, the magic he creates is similar. I think Ashwin is still carrying the injury or not recovered from his Hernia operation ? He is so out of it in this series.

 

[Nil Dhumrojal]

Sometimes yes.

 

[R0H1T]

Jadeja reminds of a young Saqain, the magic he creates is similar. I think Ashwin is still carrying the injury or not recovered from his Hernia operation ? He is so out of it in this series.

To be fair to Jadeja even against SA, on turning & flat tracks, he did pick up huge wickets everytime we needed a breakthrough. His wickets of Faf & Amla in first test, ABDV in Bangalore & Nagpur, then a 5fer in Delhi puts him above Ashwin IMO.

He's easily the best left arm tweaker in the world, probably the best in the last few years, would be great to see him play vs SL away.

 

[Mamoon]

A fit Ashwin is better than Jadeja, but the latter is world class as well.

Top 3 Asian spinners at the moment:

Ashwin
Herath
Jadeja

 

[Nil Dhumrojal]

They are like 'Shane warne and Mcgill'. Both are very good and very impact bowlers

 

[Ab Fan]

Ashwin sometimes succumbs to pressure and looks blant.

2012 series in England was one and then this very series, particularly the 2nd match, when the pressure was on, he looked pretty ordinary.

Jadeja thrives in those situations.

 

[Zak_Fan]

In Jadeja's limitations lies his strength. He can stick to a plan much longer, and hence be more consistent because he is doing the same thing over and over again.

Ashwin in comparison isn't the same. One day he is bowling with a plan, the the next day he tries something completely different. Very hard to stay consistent with such tactics.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Ashwin plus Jadeja>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>any spin combo of any team currently..

 

[SunRay]

Ashwin is an overrated bowler who needs doctored pitches to take wickets. Pitches have been abysmal so far in this series but he still couldn't do a zilch against Aussies who r notorious against spin.

 

[Napa]

It is a close contest, but ever since Jadeja won us the 5th Test against England with his 4 wickets in the 5th day post-tea session I have him slightly ahead of Ashwin.

 

[SunRay]

Ashwin plus Jadeja>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>any spin combo of any team currently..

Not many teams play two front line spinners. But for the sake of argument I think herath and sandakan combo will easily outbowl both of them on turning wickets.

 

[Bilal7]

Ashwin is one overrated cricketer while Jadeja is pretty underrated so yes. Of course, neither of them is as good as Shah in test matches and don't even touch Herath, at least when he was in his prime.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Not many teams play two front line spinners. But for the sake of argument I think herath and sandakan combo will easily outbowl both of them on turning wickets.

LOLfer.Who is Sandakan?LOL.He just got caned by Bangladesh.

All asian teamsplay 2 spinners at home.So do every visiting team in Asia.

 

[geraltofrivia]

Ashwin is one overrated cricketer while Jadeja is pretty underrated so yes. Of course, neither of them is as good as Shah in test matches and don't even touch Herath, at least when he was in his prime.

Yeah the man with a 31 average is better than the guys with ~25 averages.

And if you bring away averages etc, Ashwin has a better average than Yasir in EVERY country they have both played in. Also Jadeja has a better away average than Yasir's with a 6-fer in South Africa.

These two are the no 1 ranked bowlers in the world.

 

[Slog]

Yeah the man with a 31 average is better than the guys with ~25 averages.

And if you bring away averages etc, Ashwin has a better average than Yasir in EVERY country they have both played in. Also Jadeja has a better away average than Yasir's with a 6-fer in South Africa.

These two are the no 1 ranked bowlers in the world.

Come back when Ashwin wins you guys a test match in England Or Australia

 

[Varun]

Ashwin is one overrated cricketer while Jadeja is pretty underrated so yes. Of course, neither of them is as good as Shah in test matches and don't even touch Herath, at least when he was in his prime.

If by Shah you mean Yasir Shah, he is bog average.

 

[SunRay]

Ashwin is one overrated cricketer while Jadeja is pretty underrated so yes. Of course, neither of them is as good as Shah in test matches and don't even touch Herath, at least when he was in his prime.

Jadeja is underrated? Nah, don't think so. He just fires it in to the batters. If the pitche offers turn he becomes deadly due to his accuracy and speed. But He'll definitely get carted around the park on Australian and African pitches.

 

[geraltofrivia]

Come back when Ashwin wins you guys a test match in England Or Australia

What kind of argument is this? Firstly Yasir has not won a match in Australia. It was his bowling which allowed Oz quick runs and allowed them to win the Melbourne test. Comapritively Ashwin's economic bowling led to two tests being drawn.

Also using your argument come back when Yasir wins you a series in WI (something no Pak team has ever done) or a series against NZ/SA etc etc.

 

[geraltofrivia]

Jadeja is underrated? Nah, don't think so. He just fires it in to the batters. If the pitche offers turn he becomes deadly due to his accuracy and speed. But He'll definitely get carted around the park on Australian and African pitches.

Averages 17 or something in SA.

 

[Slog]

If by Shah you mean Yasir Shah, he is bog average.

Yet won his side two tests in England which Neither Ashwin or Jadeja have been able to do put together

Id take that mediocrity. All three were terrible in Australia even though Ashwin got a bit better on his second tour

 

[Slog]

What kind of argument is this? Firstly Yasir has not won a match in Australia. It was his bowling which allowed Oz quick runs and allowed them to win the Melbourne test. Comapritively Ashwin's economic bowling led to two tests being drawn.

Also using your argument come back when Yasir wins you a series in WI (something no Pak team has ever done) or a series against NZ/SA etc etc.

Haha at Ashwin drawing two tests

Did he win India two tests in England?

 

[cricketjoshila]

Come back when Ashwin wins you guys a test match in England Or Australia

By that argument O'Keefe is better than Murali.Because O'Keefe won its team a test match in India,Murali didnt.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Haha at Ashwin drawing two tests

Did he win India two tests in England?

Did Murali win any tests in India??O'Keefe did.

 

[geraltofrivia]

Yet won his side two tests in England which Neither Ashwin or Jadeja have been able to do put together

Id take that mediocrity. All three were terrible in Australia even though Ashwin got a bit better on his second tour

They have been able to win series against NZ and SA, something no Pakistani bowler has been able to do for a great many years now.

 

[geraltofrivia]

Haha at Ashwin drawing two tests

Did he win India two tests in England?

Did Yasir win Pakistan series against NZ/SA?

 

[Kaptan]

Not many teams play two front line spinners. But for the sake of argument I think herath and sandakan combo will easily outbowl both of them on turning wickets.

lol Herath and who ?

 

[Slog]

They have been able to win series against NZ and SA, something no Pakistani bowler has been able to do for a great many years now.

*at home though. Never doubted their ability to perform in Asia or WI


In any case NZ are Pakistans whipping boys. We've won like 3/4 away series there consecutively

 

[Slog]

By that argument O'Keefe is better than Murali.Because O'Keefe won its team a test match in India,Murali didnt.

That's a straw man and you know it. Irrelevant point to bring up because that's not what the discussion is

No one doubts ashwins ability in Asia and WI and arguably in favourable conditions he's more dangerous than Yasir I'd admit

But on Countries which usually are not good touring places for spinners it's a fact that yasir has won his team matches where Ashwin hasn't.

This is fact and not debatable

 

[geraltofrivia]

*at home though. Never doubted their ability to perform in Asia or WI


In any case NZ are Pakistans whipping boys. We've won like 3/4 away series there consecutively

Yeah and Yasir was not able to do that at home even.

Past doesn't really matter o/w WI would be the best team. Those 3/4 series include Wasim, Waqar, Shoaib etc. Paksitan couldn't defeat them in UAE and were whitewashed in NZ.

 

[SunRay]

LOLfer.Who is Sandakan?LOL.He just got caned by Bangladesh.

All asian teamsplay 2 spinners at home.So do every visiting team in Asia.

So?? Ashwin is also getting smashed around by the Aussies. Don't ignore him just because he's new in international arena. He played a major for srilanka to whitewash Australia.

 

[Zak_Fan]

Haha at Ashwin drawing two tests

Did he win India two tests in England?

Did Ashwin and Jadeja even play 2 tests in England?

Also... did Ashwin or Jadeja even get the kind of pitches Yasir did in England?

Ishant has won India a Test match in England too, something NONE of your phaast bowling superstar ever achieved. But we won't call him better than Amir because Indians fans know that a couple of performances on friendly pitches do not change the fact that a bowler has been beyond rubbish in 90% of the matches.

 

[Slog]

Did Ashwin and Jadeja even play 2 tests in England?

Also... did Ashwin or Jadeja even get the kind of pitches Yasir did in England?

Ishant has won India a Test match in England too, something NONE of your phaast bowling superstar ever achieved. But we won't call him better than Amir because Indians fans know that a couple of performances on friendly pitches do not change the fact that a bowler has been beyond rubbish in 90% of the matches.

Who are these fast bowling superstars who haven't won us a test match in England? Amir, Wahab have in 2010. And don't get started on the stars of yesteryears

 

[SunRay]

lol Herath and who ?

A bowler who decimated the Australian batting lineup with his mystery bowling. Btw how's Ashwin doing on the sand beaches of India, I've heard that aussies haven't been that kind on him so far.

 

[roshanrocks]

ermmmm...

This thread is Jadeja Vs Ashwin... Why are you guys bringing other players in? Just talk about Jaddu Vs Ash... simple.... and argue to the point only... who is more effective? donot discuss who is defective ... Cause and effect is important here...

Thanks Bigly

 

[Varun]

I didn't start this thread for it to descend into insecure sub-continental chaos like this.

Come on.

 

[cricketjoshila]

That's a straw man and you know it. Irrelevant point to bring up because that's not what the discussion is

No one doubts ashwins ability in Asia and WI and arguably in favourable conditions he's more dangerous than Yasir I'd admit

But on Countries which usually are not good touring places for spinners it's a fact that yasir has won his team matches where Ashwin hasn't.

This is fact and not debatable

This is not strawman.This is what your argument of winning a test in Eng by Yasir makes him better than Ashwin looks like.Because using the same argument O'Keefe is better than Murali.Leave that Monty Panesar is better than Murali.he won his team a series in India.

 

[cricketjoshila]

A bowler who decimated the Australian batting lineup with his mystery bowling. Btw how's Ashwin doing on the sand beaches of India, I've heard that aussies haven't been that kind on him so far.

15 wickets in the two test matches that have been completed.

 

[cricketjoshila]

So?? Ashwin is also getting smashed around by the Aussies. Don't ignore him just because he's new in international arena. He played a major for srilanka to whitewash Australia.

Smashed???

15 wickets in two completed test matches,including a 6 fer.

And lol at comparing aussies with BD.

 

[Zak_Fan]

This is not strawman.This is what your argument of winning a test in Eng by Yasir makes him better than Ashwin looks like.Because using the same argument O'Keefe is better than Murali.Leave that Monty Panesar is better than Murali.he won his team a series in India.

Hard to make such emotional fans see sense.

He would never rate Ishant higher than Amir for winning Tests in England, Sri Lanka and WI. But when it comes to Yasir, all the legendary phaintas are forgotten, and all he remembers is "those" two matches.

 

[roshanrocks]

This is not strawman.This is what your argument of winning a test in Eng by Yasir makes him better than Ashwin looks like.Because using the same argument O'Keefe is better than Murali.Leave that Monty Panesar is better than Murali.he won his team a series in India.

Your argument is out of syllabus. Jadeja Vs Ashwin please...

Yasir keefe murali panesar strawman noodleman .... are banned from this thread

 

[cricketjoshila]

Hard to make such emotional fans see sense.

He would never rate Ishant higher than Amir for winning Tests in England, Sri Lanka and WI. But when it comes to Yasir, all the legendary phaintas are forgotten, and all he remembers is "those" two matches.

I have had arguemnts here with people about how Afridi owns India,(Despite avging 50s with the ball and 20s with the bat in ODIs)because he scored a hundred in Kanpur.

 

[SunRay]

ermmmm...

This thread is Jadeja Vs Ashwin... Why are you guys bringing other players in? Just talk about Jaddu Vs Ash... simple.... and argue to the point only... who is more effective? donot discuss who is defective ... Cause and effect is important here...

Thanks Bigly

Fact is a darter like jaddu has outperformed ash. It just tells u the quality of Ashwin.

 

[Slog]

This is not strawman.This is what your argument of winning a test in Eng by Yasir makes him better than Ashwin looks like.Because using the same argument O'Keefe is better than Murali.Leave that Monty Panesar is better than Murali.he won his team a series in India.

Ashwin is bog average outside countries with conducive conditions and that is evidenced by his poor record so far. However some posters here want to believe that Ashwin is on some different level to Yasir and that is simply not true.

And since Yasir actually has role in wins in England which Ashwin never achieved It is laughable to suggest that Ashwin is CLEARLY BETTER than Yasir because he isn't and the mediocre overseas record Ashwin posses reflects that well.

O Keefe would have been consideredbetter than Murali if his record was great everywhere else like muralis and he was in the conversation to be compared to Murali in the first place

At the moment both shah and Ashwin are beasts in conditions suited for them so points such as overseas performances enter into the discussion

I am not even saying Yasir is better than Ashwin and I could come up with many reasons why in different situation Ashwin is the better bowler. However I find this whole premise that is put out by some insecure Indians that it is a done and dusted debate laughable.

 

[SunRay]

Smashed???

15 wickets in two completed test matches,including a 6 fer.

And lol at comparing aussies with BD.

U aren't reading it right then. When did I compare Australia with BD.

Sandakan did well against Australia and had a 7fer. Come again

 

[roshanrocks]

Fact is a darter like jaddu has outperformed ash. It just tells u the quality of Ashwin.

When a bowler becomes the No.1 in the World, that means he is out-performing every other bowler on the planet. Not just Ashwin. That tells you the quality of all the other bowlers on this planet as well?

 

[cricketjoshila]

U aren't reading it right then. When did I compare Australia with BD.

Sandakan did well against Australia and had a 7fer. Come again

Jadeja took a 6 fer in the last innings.Already have 2 wickets in the second.Is the numberone ranked bowler in the world.Sandakan isnt fit to tie his shoelaces.

Poor Lankans.Get rolled over by Bangladesh.LOL.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Ashwin is bog average outside countries with conducive conditions and that is evidenced by his poor record so far. However some posters here want to believe that Ashwin is on some different level to Yasir and that is simply not true.

And since Yasir actually has role in wins in England which Ashwin never achieved It is laughable to suggest that Ashwin is CLEARLY BETTER than Yasir because he isn't and the mediocre overseas record Ashwin posses reflects that well.

O Keefe would have been consideredbetter than Murali if his record was great everywhere else like muralis and he was in the conversation to be compared to Murali in the first place

At the moment both shah and Ashwin are beasts in conditions suited for them so points such as overseas performances enter into the discussion

I am not even saying Yasir is better than Ashwin and I could come up with many reasons why in different situation Ashwin is the better bowler. However I find this whole premise that is put out by some insecure Indians that it is a done and dusted debate laughable.

What is Yasir shah's avg in England?

which countries have Yasir Shah out bowled Ashwin in??

Yasir Shah avgs 32,Ashwin 25. This after both have played at home and away.Tells you who is better.

 

[Slog]

Hard to make such emotional fans see sense.

He would never rate Ishant higher than Amir for winning Tests in England, Sri Lanka and WI. But when it comes to Yasir, all the legendary phaintas are forgotten, and all he remembers is "those" two matches.

Because the point of discussion is Ashwin vs Yasir and who has done well overseas

Both are beasts in home conditions and to seperate them you see overseas (outside Asia and wi) performances where spin isn't favoured

Yasir performances have veered from one extreme to another in such conditions whereas Ashwin has been consistently mediocre though he did improve in Australia in his second tour

 

[SunRay]

When a bowler becomes the No.1 in the World, that means he is out-performing every other bowler on the planet. Not just Ashwin. That tells you the quality of all the other bowlers on this planet as well?

Yes, it indeed gives me a pretty good idea about the types of wicket India has been dishing out to the touring teams in last 2/3 years.

I agree with u

 

[Slog]

What is Yasir shah's avg in England?

which countries have Yasir Shah out bowled Ashwin in??

Yasir Shah avgs 32,Ashwin 25. This after both have played at home and away.Tells you who is better.

How many tests has Ashwin won India in Australia and England?

How many tests has Yasir won Pakistan in Australia and England?

Averages doesn't matter at this point and winning matches or atleast giving match changing performances does because that's how you look at it.


Also Yasir is at start of his career. If you compare Ashwin and Yasirs record at similar point of their career as Yasir is in now, Yasir beats him

The fact is that despite the phainta in Australia Yasir has outperformed Ashwin in non supporting countries by virtue of his role in England wins

 

[Hitman]

Yasir Shah averages 31.51 )

 

[Mamoon]

People can repeat themselves a thousand times but facts are facts. Yasir is nothing special and Ashwin is better than him.

 

[cricketjoshila]

How many tests has Ashwin won India in Australia and England?

How many tests has Yasir won Pakistan in Australia and England?

Averages doesn't matter at this point and winning matches or atleast giving match changing performances does because that's how you look at it.


Also Yasir is at start of his career. If you compare Ashwin and Yasirs record at similar point of their career as Yasir is in now, Yasir beats him

The fact is that despite the phainta in Australia Yasir has outperformed Ashwin in non supporting countries by virtue of his role in England wins

Avgs do matter.They reflect the overall performance and not flash in the pan performances.Just like Monty Panesar and Graeme Swann winning England a test series in India doesnt make them better than Murali.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Yasir Shah averages 31.51 )

But But But he is better than Ashwin.

Also Sandakan is better than Jadeja.

 

[Kaptan]

A bowler who decimated the Australian batting lineup with his mystery bowling. Btw how's Ashwin doing on the sand beaches of India, I've heard that aussies haven't been that kind on him so far.

Seems like you have just started watching cricket yesterday
One bad match for Ashwin and One good match for Sandakan, makes him and Herat better than Jadu-Ash ? Next what ?
Agakar is better than Sachin because he scored a century in lords ? Try again
Mystery spinner lol

 

[Slog]

People can repeat themselves a thousand times but facts are facts. Yasir is nothing special and Ashwin is better than him.

Is your second sentence meant as an example for the first one cause you did just that

Repeating a canned line doesn't make it fact

 

[cricketjoshila]

People can repeat themselves a thousand times but facts are facts. Yasir is nothing special and Ashwin is better than him.

Yasir is a good bowler.

 

[Slog]

But But But he is better than Ashwin.

Also Sandakan is better than Jadeja.

Well considering you agree with mr Hitman just shows your understanding.

Kumble and Harbhajan especially were trash spinners then

 

[cricketjoshila]

Well considering you agree with mr Hitman just shows your understanding.

Kumble and Harbhajan especially were trash spinners then

If you call someone with 600 test wickets @29 as trash well you can.Freedom of expression.

Bhajji post 300 wickets was indeed trash.

 

[troodon]

Why is Yasir shah being discussed here?

 

[Mamoon]

Yasir is a good bowler.

He is good but nothing special. People are clearly overrating him based on two matches in England, conveniently ignoring he was awful in the two other matches and was also awful in Australia.

 

[JaDed]

He is getting there,sadly he should had already been there considering the faith shown in him by Indian management nevertheless hopefully he keeps the form.

 

[Mamoon]

Is your second sentence meant as an example for the first one cause you did just that

Repeating a canned line doesn't make it fact

Yasir's two good performances in England have been negated by the five poor performances in England (Old Trafford, Edgbaston) and Australia. Ashwin has outperformed him everywhere else, two matches don't make Yasir better.

 

[SunRay]

People can repeat themselves a thousand times but facts are facts. Yasir is nothing special and Ashwin is better than him.

Stop playing the devil's advocate, Mamoon. Ashwin isn't that great either.

 

[SunRay]

Why on earth ppl overrate Ashwin so much

 

[Mamoon]

Stop playing the devil's advocate, Mamoon. Ashwin isn't that great either.

He is no Warne/Murali but he is better than Yasir. This is my view, not playing anyone's advocate.

 

[Hitman]

But But But he is better than Ashwin.

Also Sandakan is better than Jadeja.

Away averages matter as long as it doesn't involve the greatest spinner of all time aka Abdul Qadir. It's just an anomaly tat he averages 48 odd away from home. After all, he is better than even Sane Warne since he gave a few tips to Warne at some stage.

 

[Hitman]

If you call someone with 600 test wickets @29 as trash well you can.Freedom of expression.

Bhajji post 300 wickets was indeed trash.

Doesn't matter if Saqlain averages more than Kumble, and if Kumble has taken more than 600 Test wickets, while Saqlain has taken a little more tan 200 Test wickets.. After all Saqlain was such a talent, it doesn't matter what the end results are, Saqlain is the greatest spinner ever since he was so talented.

 

[Slog]

Away averages matter as long as it doesn't involve the greatest spinner of all time aka Abdul Qadir. It's just an anomaly tat he averages 48 odd away from home. After all, he is better than even Sane Warne since he gave a few tips to Warne at some stage.

Who has said Qadir is better than Warne lol?

That is like saying Sachin is better than Bradman

 

[Hitman]

Who has said Qadir is better than Warne lol?

That is like saying Sachin is better than Bradman

A few of your countrymen have, LOL. I can take names even.

Regardless, most of your countrymen keep singing his praises, expect that at that time it goes out of the window that he averages 48 odd away from home

 

[Slog]

A few of your countrymen have, LOL. I can take names even.

Regardless, most of your countrymen keep singing his praises, expect that at that time it goes out of the window that he averages 48 odd away from home

Yes taking alleged comments from a few people should mean it is opinion of the entire commentary. Considering the ridiculous stuff which comes out of India everyday one would think you of all people would have enough sense..

Some Indians have also said that Zaheer is better than Wasim and there were threads on this around 2008-2011 or so... Should I take opinion of those loonies for every Indian?

 

[Hitman]

Yes taking alleged comments from a few people should mean it is opinion of the entire commentary. Considering the ridiculous stuff which comes out of India everyday one would think you of all people would have enough sense..

Some Indians have also said that Zaheer is better than Wasim and there were threads on this around 2008-2011 or so... Should I take opinion of those loonies for every Indian?

Not really, they never did. Never, ever!!! Anyways, forget about comparison with Warne (which quite a few posters on PP debated that Qadir was so much better than Warne), the way Pak fans keep singing praises about Abdul Qadir when he averages around 48 odd away from home is enough to make anyone laugh. Even a B-Class bowler like Harbajan averages way better than that away from home )

 

[Slog]

Not really, they never did. Never, ever!!! Anyways, forget about comparison with Warne (which quite a few posters on PP debated that Qadir was so much better than Warne), the way Pak fans keep singing praises about Abdul Qadir when he averages around 48 odd away from home is enough to make anyone laugh. Even a B-Class bowler like Harbajan averages way better than that away from home )

Just google Zaheer Khan as good as Akram and a few threads on Indian forums pop up

 

[Hitman]

Just google Zaheer Khan as good as Akram and a few threads on Indian forums pop up

Why should I? You claimed something, it's up to you to prove it and give the links. There are a lot of threads where we Indians mock worthless players like Agarkar and compare them with real great players and insult him till no end in that way.

Give us such links where you claimed that us Indians were on a serious discussion comparing a joker with a legend like Wasim Akram.

 

[Slog]

Why should I? You claimed something, it's up to you to prove it and give the links. There are a lot of threads where we Indians mock worthless players like Agarkar and compare them with real great players and insult him till no end in that way.

Give us such links where you claimed that us Indians were on a serious discussion comparing a joker with a legend like Wasim Akram.

I can't share links from other forums here but it's your prerogative to verify that

Also Zaheer Wasn't a joker by any means

While he wasn't consistent for long enough he did very well in a 3-4 year period where his team ended up becoming number 1 side and winning World Cup so give him respect

 

[jnaveen1980]

Ashwin is having fitness concerns. Also Ashwin is slower through the air. So on roads he is ineffective. If batsmen attack he pulls back his length as well. That is how history has been. If Lilee doesnt get you Thommo will get you, Younis/Akram, Mcgrath/Warne, As long as one of them shows up it is fine.