Is the art of off-spin dying?

[azamcricketer]

With recent cracking on bowling actions, offspin's standard is going down by the suspension of Best offspiners in the world cricket in the likes of Ajmal and Narine(though they might make a comeback but would't be the same). I wonder that this cracking on action may scare the youngsters to choose offspin in their careirs. What do you think about this guys.

 

[LegbreakGoogly]

You never know , i think this happening right know and my class mate has also changed from a off spin to medium pacer. Icc should think about it.

 

[Thivagar]

Reducing outfielders from 5 to 4(3 during power play) means that spinners can't flight the ball as they should. This is one of the major downside of spin bowling now days. Targeting and getting rid of illegal bowlers are a good thing. Off spinners were meant to be defensive, they don't "attack" and this is why the Offies can't do much when the batsmen are going hard at them. Off spinners can't manage with their 3 variations. They bowl their quicker delivery with faster arm speed which a good batsmen will easily detect. Off spin is easy to master but it is extremely hard to maintain at the highest level. Every IPL team has a leggie now, Leg Spin is on the rise, off spin is kinda useless unless you can bowl a legal doosra.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Actually quality off spin is going to be on the rise.

Now that all the illegal advantages are banned...spinners will have to depend flight, dip and turn for their wickets.

Of course, you need a good top spinner, arm ball, carrom ball (if possible) etc to be successful in the international level but those are stuff that can be mastered.

By logic, Ashwin should have carted around in the Aussie conditions (which is a graveyard for finger spinners) this WC but he ended up being really good. Even the Aussies didn't smack him around in SF.

What was the difference?

He stopped all the nonsense and focused on the basics (along with spare usage of variations - hardly used the carrom ball) and got results.

Swann averages 27 in ODIs and he doesn't even have a carrom ball or anything to fall back to which makes it amazing.

It may look like these guys are exceptions but I beg to differ.

Apart from 2 or 3 guys, hardly anyone bowls traditional off spin. All were dependent on variations and illegal stuff which is why they faded away when they got figured out/banned. The only guy who bowled traditional off spin and didn't make it in ODIs is Lyon and that's because Aussies doesn't give him a lot of chances there. They have a different strategy. Also Lyon is still a beast outside Asia in tests.

And Moeen Ali (traditional off spin) was the one who troubled us the most in recent tests along with Lyon. Duminy troubled us a bit during the SA series.

As you can see....there is not even 1 example of a quality off spinner who bowls traditionally and is being discarded.

Off spin will never die but will always remain inferior to quality leg spin (rare to find) and even left arm spin (mainly due to the fact that most batsmen are right handers).

But there is scope for innovation for off spinners which left arm finger spinners don't have (atleast from what I have seen).

So no...its not all gloom and doom based on the data we have.

 

[Suleiman]

Contrary to the speculation, Narine hasn't gotten smashed after straightening his arm. Was economical in his last outing in IPL, at 6.50 rpo.

Of course, this is the IPL, not international cricket, but the point still stands. You don't need to chuck to be a good offspinner, although the chucking will definitely help.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Contrary to the speculation, Narine hasn't gotten smashed after straightening his arm. Was economical in his last outing in IPL, at 6.50 rpo.

Of course, this is the IPL, not international cricket, but the point still stands. You don't need to chuck to be a good offspinner, although the chucking will definitely help.

Yeah but watching Narine bowl its clear he is not even 10% as good now.
[MENTION=137238]Anchorman[/MENTION] said this after the first game (I didn't watch it).

But then I watched the KKR vs RCB game.

In 2 overs, he had given 5 runs but I felt he was plain lucky to have bowled when batsmen weren't looking to take risks.

There was no life in his bowling.

Later Gayle (who normally wouldn't even be able to touch Narine) smashed 2 boundaries during a crucial end phase and won the game for RCB.

Maybe Narine is slowly getting into the zone (or is nervous, conscious, etc) but if he was at 100% level in the last 2 games, he isn't going to have a cricketing career very soon.

 

[Suleiman]

Yeah but watching Narine bowl its clear he is not even 10% as good now.
[MENTION=137238]Anchorman[/MENTION] said this after the first game (I didn't watch it).

But then I watched the KKR vs RCB game.

In 2 overs, he had given 5 runs but I felt he was plain lucky to have bowled when batsmen weren't looking to take risks.

There was no life in his bowling.

Later Gayle (who normally wouldn't even be able to touch Narine) smashed 2 boundaries during a crucial end phase and won the game for RCB.

Maybe Narine is slowly getting into the zone (or is nervous, conscious, etc) but if he was at 100% level in the last 2 games, he isn't going to have a cricketing career very soon.

Yeah I heard batsmen didn't hit out early against him mostly because of his reputation and not the bowling itself (watched the game in bits and pieces, so I just went by the stats). Though I think he is skillful enough to use drift, pace variation etc to stay afloat in international cricket. Jury is still out on him.

 

[Junaids]

Fantastic sarcasm in the OP's post!

Good off spinners will do fine if they can bat. As ever.

Average offies have no future.

Cheating chuckers also have no future.

As for Narine, when he has 100 First Class wickets in his life he may become eligible to be considered a good spin bowler.

 

[Anchorman]

Yeah but watching Narine bowl its clear he is not even 10% as good now.
[MENTION=137238]Anchorman[/MENTION] said this after the first game (I didn't watch it).

But then I watched the KKR vs RCB game.

In 2 overs, he had given 5 runs but I felt he was plain lucky to have bowled when batsmen weren't looking to take risks.

There was no life in his bowling.

Later Gayle (who normally wouldn't even be able to touch Narine) smashed 2 boundaries during a crucial end phase and won the game for RCB.

Maybe Narine is slowly getting into the zone (or is nervous, conscious, etc) but if he was at 100% level in the last 2 games, he isn't going to have a cricketing career very soon.

Narine has lost the zip he had when he first came on to the scene. Without the chucking, there's no mystery about him. His off-spinner barely turns and I haven't seen him bowl the one that goes the other way yet. He basically bowls gentle good length deliveries and he doesn't have the action to flight the ball.

His economy rate shouldn't be of concern to the KKR management just yet, but the 0 in the wickets column would be giving their think-tank nightmares already. I can comfortably say that Narine won't even be half the bowler he was before, and it will be evident in this year's IPL when after a couple more games, teams stop playing his name and start playing him. It will be a big achievement if he gets even 10 wickets in this year's IPL.

 

[Anchorman]

OP, I don't see youngsters shying away from the art of off-spin at all. I still believe it's the easiest art to master and you'll still find the majority of bowlers in the streets bowling off-spin. At the top level, Swann/Ashwin/Lyon have shown that if you're intelligent enough to adapt to demands of the game, you still have a future.

Rely more on flight, turn and speed variation to beat the outside edge of the bat. If you want to be a top-level off-spinner in Tests, then look no further than Swann. If you want to be a top-level off-spinner in ODIs then Ashwin's your man. [MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] is bang on when he says that if you're a decent off-spinner who can bat then you've got your place nailed down in the team. Otherwise, the management will always prefer a more wicket-taking option such as a fast-bowler or a leggie.

 

[Anchorman]

Herath is another one I missed out in my post. Top quality bowler who has shown that you can still cut it at the top level if you're not chucking.

That's why I'm so big on Zafar Gohar's inclusion in the side. He's the best we have when it comes to flight/speed variation and is also a decent batsman.

 

[Junaids]

Herath is another one I missed out in my post. Top quality bowler who has shown that you can still cut it at the top level if you're not chucking.

That's why I'm so big on Zafar Gohar's inclusion in the side. He's the best we have when it comes to flight/speed variation and is also a decent batsman.

Agreed.

Outside Asia, my first choice is a leggie who can average 30 with the bat.

And my second choice is a slow left-arm bowler who can average 30 with the bat.

 

[Convict]

Agreed.

Outside Asia, my first choice is a leggie who can average 30 with the bat.

And my second choice is a slow left-arm bowler who can average 30 with the bat.

No room for MacGill and Warne?

 

[Junaids]

Convict, Warnie would average 30 with the bat on modern tracks.

My Test number 8 batsman needs to average 30 with the bat and my number 9 needs to average 25.

Hence my ideal spinner in modern Tests is someone like Dan Vettori who contributes with the bat.

 

[LegbreakGoogly]

Everything aside @Icc is very harsh on offspinners with 15 degree role. 1 or 2¤ more bending angle should be allowd . Otherwise its becoming easy for batsman

 

[trogger]

The recent chuckers haven't been just one or two over they have been way way over so what difference would a degree or two make?

 

[WrexEverything]

Lol at people trying to act as though Ajmal and Narine bannings were bad for the game. If they're good enough bowlers they'll come back with legal actions and perform well.

Anyway, we've seen guys like Graeme Swann who have perfectly clean, smooth actions achieve tremendous success, so there's no reason at all for ICC to increase the chucking line by 1 or 2 degrees. The rule is fine as it is.

 

[slice]

OP, I don't see youngsters shying away from the art of off-spin at all. I still believe it's the easiest art to master and you'll still find the majority of bowlers in the streets bowling off-spin. At the top level, Swann/Ashwin/Lyon have shown that if you're intelligent enough to adapt to demands of the game, you still have a future.

Rely more on flight, turn and speed variation to beat the outside edge of the bat. If you want to be a top-level off-spinner in Tests, then look no further than Swann. If you want to be a top-level off-spinner in ODIs then Ashwin's your man. [MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] is bang on when he says that if you're a decent off-spinner who can bat then you've got your place nailed down in the team. Otherwise, the management will always prefer a more wicket-taking option such as a fast-bowler or a leggie.

Psst !

Go to My Cricket section and check some spin bowling related threads by slice.
You might see a legal way of bowling dooosra type deliveries.

Completely identical to off spin action but perfectly legal and those deliveries (if bowled correctly) tend to turn (away from RH) more than regular off spin.

And you can have all sorts of variations LEGALLY but if you PRACTICE.

 

[cricketindiafan]

Lyon, Ashwin, Dilruwan perera of SL, the new Kid Harmer from SA - Thats 4 off spiners who play Test cricket for their sides. Wonder why you think the art is dying.

 

[Thivagar]

Lyon, Ashwin, Dilruwan perera of SL, the new Kid Harmer from SA - Thats 4 off spiners who play Test cricket for their sides. Wonder why you think the art is dying.

Dilruwan is in and out of the team(not good enough) and you don't even know the other guy's name . Off spin is best used in Test matches and I'm surprised that there are only few Offies in Test.

 

[Mamoon]

Checkers like Ajmal, Hafeez and Narine will discourage young kids from taking up off-spin bowling.

 

[Mamoon]

Chuckers*

 

[Orbis]

Unsightly, overweight chuckers like Ashwin will discourage kids from taking up off-spin. He takes up where Chuckkbhajan left off

 

[BuccalSingh]

Checkers like Ajmal, Hafeez and Narine will discourage young kids from taking up off-spin bowling.

It is actually the opposite, Murali was the biggest chucker to date, yet he only encouraged youngsters in SL to take up offspin. Ajmal is a big chucker( won't talk about Hafiz as he's not a big chucker) yet Pakistan is the country with most talent when it comes to spin.
If Ashwin is chucking and regardless of him getting caught or getting away with it, India will still produce Offies.

 

[BuccalSingh]

Unsightly, overweight chuckers like Ashwin will discourage kids from taking up off-spin. He takes up where Chuckkbhajan left off

View attachment 56085

When in your own word we got Ashwin even though Bhajji was chucking, then why would the scenario change now? Whether Ash chucks or not, youngsters will still bowl offies in India.

 

[corleone]

Unsightly, overweight chuckers like Ashwin will discourage kids from taking up off-spin. He takes up where Chuckkbhajan left off

View attachment 56085

What is it with your irrational hate for anything remotely related to India?

 

[saeed5646]

saw a video on youtube this kid from peshwar looks promising with his off spin bowling

 

[topspin]

With the recent addition of PCB's first biomechanics lab, suspect bowling actions can be eliminated and subsequently tinkered to be in line within ICC's legal limit.

If PCB can utilise this facility to its full potential, I don't see why we will not see a surge in quality right arm off-spin bowlers in Pakistan.

As for the rest of the world, I expect lefties and wrist spinners continue to dominate.

 

[Mueez]

saw a video on youtube this kid from peshwar looks promising with his off spin bowling

He looks really promising.

He has the ingredients to make it in international cricket.

 

[azimiqbal]

Has a lot of variety for someone quite young, would love to see saqiiii working with him