Varun
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That doesn't make sense. Why then do we only offer 1 test to Bangladesh but 5 to England, 4 to Australia and South Africa and 3 to New Zealand?
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Contact the PP Team
Is the Australia-India rivalry the biggest thing in cricket at the moment?
- Thread starter MenInG
- Start date
That doesn't make sense. Why then do we only offer 1 test to Bangladesh but 5 to England, 4 to Australia and South Africa and 3 to New Zealand?
Yossarian
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Number of people watching and purchasing power are two different things.
Far more fans watch cricket (including on tv) in Pakistan and Bangladesh than in Australia or England. But the purchase power, ad revenue, sponsorship and broadcasting rights value, entry into the stadiums to watch matches plus the cost of food, drinks whilst there, etc. are such in England and Australia that the revenue generated, despite lower number of fans, versus the revenue generated in Pakistan and Bangladesh via similar means, is far greater than in Pakistan and Bangladesh.
India wins hands down because even though the revenue per fan/viewer is far lower in India (and along similar lines to that of Pakistan) than in England and Australia, the sheer population size (and hence fan base) of India outweighs all other factors.
So when someone says "the biggest rivalry in cricket", what does that exactly mean? Revenue generated? Number of tv viewers? Number of fans at the stadium? Who decides?
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Yossarian
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Just to add:
Cricket boards are now commercial entities. The number of matches they play against particular opponents is directly related to the amount of revenue the board can generate from that opponent/tour.
That's why everyone wants to host India, because (as per my previous post), the sheer number of Indian tv viewers means that the host board can demand high fees for broadcasting rights from Indian broadcasters and Indian sponsors.
bleaf27
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Finally the population size is coming handy for something !
Buffet
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You are right on target here, but missing one factor. India-Aus may still get more eyeballs than India-BD despite population of BD being higher than Aus. More Indians may tune in to watch a test series against Aus as compared to BD. India has such a huge population that they will drive the total viewership. Just my hunch here, I have no data for it.
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The Kohli Smith issues certainly seem to have added more spice to this relationship
Arsalan Pro
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Yes,considering there is no such thing as Pak-Ind series.
Ab Fan
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Can Aussies challenge India now?
They have a potent team.
Warner
Burns(not sure in Asia though)
Labu
Smith
Wade
Head
Paine(wkt)
Starc
Cummins
Lyon
Hazelwood
Not many journeyman there I believe.
They have a potent team.
Warner
Burns(not sure in Asia though)
Labu
Smith
Wade
Head
Paine(wkt)
Starc
Cummins
Lyon
Hazelwood
Not many journeyman there I believe.
tyron_woodley
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lol at easy win. They ain't winning sh*t in india. In Australia it will be competitive and really the result depends on the toss factor.
Ab Fan
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In India, Aussies will be smashed. India won't get smashed in Australia either.
With challenge, I was talking about no.1 ranking. NZ are ranked no.2 but don't think they can challenge us for the top spot. It has to be Australia only.
Warner is a sitting duck in India, wade averages a gargantuan 26, Paine is a mediocre batsman, labuschane has never played here, starc is an ftb who will flop. Neither do they have a potent team nor will they challenge.
You can't beat India in India with 1 spinner and 1 great batsman however good he is.
Ab Fan
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That's why I said above they will be smashed in India. The question is can they challenge No.1. stop? They have a team to beat SA and NZ away and if not for poor captaincy of Paine should have won in England as well.
tyron_woodley
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you can't beat india in India regardless unless india decide to throw the game.
india can beat australia in australia but toss will be a key factor.
Aman
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India ain't beating Aus in Aus with Smith and Warner back.
They would have gotten smashed last series if they were playing. Both are Bradman in Aus and make things a lot easier for the batsmen around them.
The fact they went life and death (including dropped a Test to them) is proof of this.
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Would have, could have. They lost. And neither of the cheats would have stopped Pujara and co from piling in the runs. I mean, just look at these soft NZers crumbling against the same set of bowlers.
Aman
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This was said long before NZ toured.
Warner and Smith are their batting, and in Aus at least one of them are guaranteed to score runs.
Sorry, I hurt your feelings. But that's reality.
India wouldn't have sniffed a series win if those 2 were there and would have been staring down the barrel of 0-4 or 0-3.
BreadPakoda
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It wasn't life and death. India would have won 3-1 if not for the rain.
But with Smith and Warner in the side, Ozzie bowlers would have got reinvigorated and rejuvenated enough to not allow Rishab Pant to smash them all over the park. Starc, Cummins and others weren't what they are today with Smith and Warner to encourage them in the field. India would be in a similar spot like NZ today. All out for 120 - 170.
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MeanAndGreen
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All conjecture really.
India are a far superior team to Pakistan and NZ in all formats and don’t have the mental block those teams have against Aus either.
Aman
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lmao are we going to preted like India would have won a single game with Smith and Warner there.
Keep dreaming.
Look at their numbers in Aus, both are Bradman there and when set they score big and consistently. If one of them scores, it tires the bowlers out and gives more freedom to other batsmen who play as anchors and aren't relied on to score runs. If both score, you're staring down an innings defeat.
It's straight forward, you're deluded if you think otherwise.
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BreadPakoda
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I agree with you man. Your batsmen soiled their pants against a different Starc today. The reinvigorated one.
Aman
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I was saying this long before this match, you can look back at the thread around this time which asked if India would have won if those two were there and I was saying the same thing. You can look back on previous threads where I expected us to lose 0-2 or 0-3. Aus in Aus are near on unbeatable unless you have the quality, pace and batsmen like SA use to.
I'm someone who watches the Aussie summer every year and rate Warner highly.
tyron_woodley
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India would compete well with them in australia. Conversely, Australia would just get decimated in india.
Seriously lol?
india under kohli doesn't lose when they win the toss. India would be winnign the the third and fourth test regardless. Smith and warner ain't bowling spin to get pujara and pant or kohli out.
First 2 tests are debatable but India's record under kohli when he wins the toss is unblemished. warnee or smith have never faced a bowler as good as bumrah and current shami. There is no guarantee they would have performed.
Anyway we will get our answers soon when india tours again.
tyron_woodley
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India faced an even stronger Australian side in 2015 with peak smith and warner and still only lost 2-0. As if current version of kohli's beast team would get smashed rofl. Even in 2015 they came close to winning that first test with a far weaker bowling lineup that consisted of a pre prime ishant, injury ravaged shami and a raw yadav.
big_gamer007
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So basically, the haters will now say Smith/Warner would have made India lose 4-0 and the die-harders will say with Smith and Warner India would have still won.
Both sides just speculating, fact is simple, I did won Vs Australia. Doesn't matter who played and who didn't.
It shows Ind Vs Australia in the result.
Both sides just speculating, fact is simple, I did won Vs Australia. Doesn't matter who played and who didn't.
It shows Ind Vs Australia in the result.
WhenSultansBowled
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Nikhil_cric
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India had to scrap hard for the 1st 2 tests but we dominated the last 2. I agree that we wouldn't have won with Warner, Smith , and labu 2.0. The thing is even an Australia without Smith and Warner would comfortably have beaten the likes of PAK,NZ,ENG etc.
andy0204
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India should have white washed Australia,that Australian team looked like hopeless team and India lost one match.
Nonetheless India won the series.
Lol whatever makes you feel better.
Compare THAT squad to this one. This squad is way better.
Also our bowling would have performed a lot better due to the weaker batting lineup.
We bowled out Aus A for 60 who had the ex-Aus players who played against you in 2018. Ignore the bowling lineup of Aus A because we were able to score 300+ against the mighty Aus bowling attack themselves.
Don't lie just to make yourself feel better. You would have mostly likely drawn against them or would have lost. You like to undermine Sri Lanka's whitewash against SA by saying that the team didn't have AB but when anyone says the same thing about your win in 2018, you lot get triggered
)Hypocrites the lot of you
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What's this "baap" "maa" **?
Don't you Indians know how to respect other people?
India wins the toss then you win? So you're reliant on a TOSS to win the match. What type of excuse is that?
)
andy0204
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jnaveen1980
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Australia in Australia is a formidable side. You can't just go score runs and take wickets. The series against Srilanka right after series against India proved that. That team didn't have warner/smith either. They absolutely demolished Srilanka.
NZ lost one bowler and also lost Boult. Not that it would make difference. Probably they could have shut them down for 350 or so which is still a good achievement. But NZ failed with bat. This is after they had fun with England bowling in the last series.
As much as a good bowling side NZ is their bowling is not exactly suitable for Australian rock hard surfaces. Since 1990 (that is after Hadlee's retirement) no NZ fast bowler has done well there until Wagner and Boult in patches. Boult 17 wickets in 4 tests at 33. Wagner 5 wickets in this test at 24.
It is doubly difficult for an Asian side as they go from surface with no real bounce to bounce. Hence a reason why Pakistan has not been able NOT TO LOSE let alone WIN in Australia.
India's performance in Australia has always been interesting one. Not just this series. Even right through 2000 India competed there very well. Except 1992 and 1999 India has performed in Australia brilliantly since 1980. Had a chance to win the test series multiple times.
Of all the times since 1980 this is the best Indian bowling unit that visited Australia. Cnanot be a coincidence first time an Indian side winning a test series. One of the key thing about INdian tour is not just wickets amount of times Australians hit on the head, knuckles. Countless times batsmen got badly hurt on the knuckle. The bounce Shami, Bumrah, Ishant could extract was hard to negotiate. Also India had good spinners as well. Just look at Wagner. He is the only one who extracts bounce. Look at his performance in comparison with other bowlers.
NZ lost one bowler and also lost Boult. Not that it would make difference. Probably they could have shut them down for 350 or so which is still a good achievement. But NZ failed with bat. This is after they had fun with England bowling in the last series.
As much as a good bowling side NZ is their bowling is not exactly suitable for Australian rock hard surfaces. Since 1990 (that is after Hadlee's retirement) no NZ fast bowler has done well there until Wagner and Boult in patches. Boult 17 wickets in 4 tests at 33. Wagner 5 wickets in this test at 24.
It is doubly difficult for an Asian side as they go from surface with no real bounce to bounce. Hence a reason why Pakistan has not been able NOT TO LOSE let alone WIN in Australia.
India's performance in Australia has always been interesting one. Not just this series. Even right through 2000 India competed there very well. Except 1992 and 1999 India has performed in Australia brilliantly since 1980. Had a chance to win the test series multiple times.
Of all the times since 1980 this is the best Indian bowling unit that visited Australia. Cnanot be a coincidence first time an Indian side winning a test series. One of the key thing about INdian tour is not just wickets amount of times Australians hit on the head, knuckles. Countless times batsmen got badly hurt on the knuckle. The bounce Shami, Bumrah, Ishant could extract was hard to negotiate. Also India had good spinners as well. Just look at Wagner. He is the only one who extracts bounce. Look at his performance in comparison with other bowlers.
Ab Fan
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Tests:- Ashes
ODIs/T20s:- India- Pakistan
ODIs/T20s:- India- Pakistan
jnaveen1980
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Regardless of the difference in quality, India/Pakistan rivalry will always be there. If I remember right there was a practice match in England for world T20 where the stadium was full. Not just cricket. Any sports. Any format. Ashes are mostly due to nostalgic reasons. Can't say for sure they were always competitive. Until this 2-2 one side always dominated.
tyron_woodley
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What's this "baap" "maa" **?
Don't you Indians know how to respect other people?
India wins the toss then you win? So you're reliant on a TOSS to win the match. What type of excuse is that?
because that's what happened buddy. India won the toss last series for 2 or 3 of the tests. India's record when they win the toss is unblemished.
Conversely indian don't need to win the toss at home to in. India will crush australia regardless at home.
Not the case in australia.
Absolutely. you are right. India needs to learn how to negate the toss factor and they are more than capable of beating a full strength australia if they prepare well.
Unfortunately conditons in australia and most SENA countries toss matters though. Conditions change drastically over the days. No excuse though. Let's see what happens next series.
Mind you india were playing without their 2 best openers for the first 2 tests and Mayank only played the last 2. Shaw will be back soon. Middle order is stronger now. It will be a tough battle.
tyron_woodley
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India pakistan even now will be a tough battle in tests. It will a close one. Would be much harder to beat pakistan than any SENA country.
Would have loved to see Misbah's pakistan face current india in u.a.e. Would have been a superb battle.
Even ATG teams need toss in their favour to win away from home , Nowadays Home teams got more advantages and prepare pitches in a way that they suit them more! So visiting teams should definitely win toss to nullify the conditions and the pitch factors.
But India always win at home regardless of toss. And away from home, they never lost a match whenever they won toss in the last 5 years!.
But some of the current teams lose away from home regardless of toss. That's the difference between current indian team and other teams That's why they're no.1!.
Nikhil_cric
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Lol whatever makes you feel better.
Compare THAT squad to this one. This squad is way better.
Also our bowling would have performed a lot better due to the weaker batting lineup.
We bowled out Aus A for 60 who had the ex-Aus players who played against you in 2018. Ignore the bowling lineup of Aus A because we were able to score 300+ against the mighty Aus bowling attack themselves.
Don't lie just to make yourself feel better. You would have mostly likely drawn against them or would have lost. You like to undermine Sri Lanka's whitewash against SA by saying that the team didn't have AB but when anyone says the same thing about your win in 2018, you lot get triggered
Hypocrites the lot of you
I sleep very well at night knowing that we are the number 1 team and have been so for longer than Imran and Misbah could manage together. Thank you very much. When did I undermine SL whitewash of RSA. It is a good accomplishment. Although to be fair, the Saffer batting was without AB and Amla was in terminal decline. Still it was a side that made Pakistan look like minnows just a couple of months earlier so fair is fair.
Nikhil_cric
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Only truly great teams can offset Iosing the toss while playing away. We are a level below.
The reason you are 400 behind isn't because steve Smith and david Warner batted you out of the game, its because their bowlers bowled out of it. We faced this same bowling lineup, actually a better bowling unit as it wasn't a bowler short and played them well.
Abdullah476
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You won the series because of your bowlers not your batsmen. If Australia had a better batting lineup, you would have been trailing by more and there would have been more pressure on you to gain a lead. Unfortunately Australia couldn't assert their pressure on you as they were fielding a B grade batting side. Many batsmen from that squad are nowhere to be seen now.
jnaveen1980
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I am not even sure how that works out. If anything your bowlers will be far more lethal. Especially in a series where Kohli underperformed. Suggesting Starc is getting wickets only because there is scoreboard pressure is amusing. They bowled far better. Field set was far better. Very hostile and intelligent bowling by all 3 bowlers supported by their captain. The slower ball at the stroke of lunch that got trapped Marsh infront was work of a genius by Bumrah. If Smith can't score against these guys what are the odds he would have against Bumrah. Shami, Ishant?
Starc in Australia
vs India
4 tests 12 wickets 34.53 avge
vs Srilanka
2 tests 12 wickets 16.41 avge
vs Pakistan
2 tests 14 wickets 17.00 avge
vs NZ
1 tests 5 wickets 10.40 avge
Abdullah476
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Smith is just going through a bad patch. Starc was going through one too before Sri Lanka played them.
Our bowling won us the series, but our batting unit unlike others has mostly stood up to the test in last 2 decades, except for the 1 time we decided to give our past their prime greats a tour of misery. We had a hopeless bowling attack in 2014-15 and we drew 2 matches and could have won the first game but for kohli and big brain selections.
jnaveen1980
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stop making exception for everything. It is all imaginary.
Abdullah476
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How's it imaginary?
Starc was averaging 33 in 2018 compared to 26 the year before (2017) and 20 the year after (2019). So him averaging 34 against you doesn't mean you countered better than anyone else. You played him the same way every other team in 2018 played him. He was going through a bad patch.
You just don't want to hear the truth because that'll undermine your win but you have to accept it no matter what.
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Test lover
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When will be India next tour to Australia ??
King_Kohli
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I personally feel current Australia team stronger than India in test format.
Nikhil_cric
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Very likely. When all their players are fit, they are a very strong side.
Kashmirilion
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Are India touring aus next winter?
KingKhan12
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Australians love their Ashes so Australia vs England is still the Biggest. But in general, Aus, Ind and Eng are the top dogs.
India-Pak could be the biggest but y'all lost to a T20 series to SL C team
Completely agree. The Ashes is the biggest rivalry nothing matches it in Tests.
Only if Pakistan and India can come to terms and play a test series once a while that would be bigger but never going to happen.
Head-Paine-Wade middle order looks fragile. They'll still beat us at their home in Test 7-10 times. Restis neutral. Unfortunately our Test bowling isn't strong as LOI bowling.
I think Ganguly would agree to play since he as travelled to Pakistan and not a BJP bakth. But like many other Indians he may also be brainwashed that Pakistan is an evil country.
King_Kohli
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King_Kohli
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Labu is another add
jnaveen1980
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So he goes missing just for the one series and finds form somehow? lol
Abdullah476
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Did you not understand what I said?
He averaged 33 in 2018, which means he bowled poorly the whole year. You didn't play him any better than anyone else who faced him in 2018. So him averaging 34 against you isn't something special. It's not like he was taking 5 wicket hauls before and then when you came he struggled to get a wicket.
No. He was performing bad against everyone in that year.
If you still don't understand, you can ask me to dumb it down even more for you.
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jnaveen1980
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By the way Australia/India rivalry dates back to that famous 2001 series. Since that series India vs Australia neck and neck. Australia's win loss ratio is over 1 against all teams except against India since that tour
Since India vs Australia series in 2001. Australia's record against different countries
Since India vs Australia series in 2001. Australia's record against different countries
jnaveen1980
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I am talking about his performance IN AUSTRALIA during this phase.
Nikhil_cric
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Yes. They have a fantastic bowling group, 3 world class batsmen in Oz conditions - Warner, smith and labu and even the likes of Wade will score. Nobody can beat them in Australia right now. They are too strong.
Abdullah476
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Averaged 30 against England in 2018. He got injured and didn't perform as well in the last test.
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Revolution
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It's your guess only. Far from reality .
jnaveen1980
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lol yea. from 34 avge to teen average in a matter of series. He bowled exactly the same way against all teams. Erratic and fast. Just that other teams kept giving him chances where as Pujara worn him out.
Abdullah476
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Can one of the mods help this guy understand what I'm saying?
He bowled EQUALLY bad to all the teams in 2018. Do you understand what the word "equally" and "bad" means right?
He averaged 33 in 2018 and he averaged 34 against you.
What's the difference?
It's not like he was averaging 15 before he played you and suddenly averaged 34. He was averaging around the 30 mark before he played you. So you have nothing to boast about regarding Starc as you played him exactly the same way other teams played him. After his injury during the ashes, he struggled with his line and length. This was visible against you too.
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jnaveen1980
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Why do you think he found form? Let me give a clue. Couple of bottom ranked sides.
Abdullah476
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How's that relevant to anything I said?
jnaveen1980
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Let me explain He played 4 tests IN AUSTRALIA (don't bring matches outside) 1 vs England average performance. 3 vs India. First 2 tests okay vs India as long as India had a couple of out of form openers. Third test india brought in Agarwal for the boxing day test. He was not the same anymore when he bowled to better batsmen. So he cannot go out form, and find some form and go out of form again and form again. It is more to do with quality of the team players you play against rather than hims FINDING form.
Abdullah476
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You still don't get it do you?
He played one test against Eng at the start of 2018. He played you in Late 2018 to Early 2019.
His performances in between were not that great and he had been injured too.
He lost his form against Eng in the last test and didn't fully regain it until he took that 5 wicket haul against SL. In between his performances were mediocre at best even if you say that he was playing away
jnaveen1980
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You don't dramatically go from getting thrashed for 126 runs in 20 odd overs to averaging 19. No bowler finds form that quickly. He picked 5 wickets each in the first 2 tests against India as well. You cannot possibly say he went out of form for third and 4th test. You cannot possibly say him finding form is the only reason not because the opposition is mediocre.
BlueBeamer
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Starc is out of form when facing good batsmen and he's in form when facing mediocre ones..How convenient
BlueBeamer
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Cricket is just much about mental toughness as it is about skill. Teams like PAK, NZ suffer from a mental block against the aussies which is why even their best teams couldn't win down under.
INDIA doesn't suffer from such mental block which is the reason why even average Indian teams competed so well against Aus over the years. The current Indian team is amongst the best teams of all time and would smash Aussies at home every time and would probably win again in the next tour.
INDIA doesn't suffer from such mental block which is the reason why even average Indian teams competed so well against Aus over the years. The current Indian team is amongst the best teams of all time and would smash Aussies at home every time and would probably win again in the next tour.
Ab Fan
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The two mentioned goes really way beyond the fact that which team is better on papers. Australia and England might not be a top team at a given time period but they still don't want to lose against each other anyways. Same goes for India and Pakistan against each others. For the latter, the hype becomes really enormous and TV sets gets broken when either of the team loses to other.
silent ischemia
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Can't agree with you more regarding the mental block. Pakistan even lost from winning positions due to this very fact. Hobart 99 and Sydney 08 two prime examples.
silent ischemia
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Sydney 2010. Correction
tyron_woodley
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no india just played him better. Always have. Other teams are scared and scarred by his pace. India will just smash him around. His bouncers don't work. Needs to learn from bumrah. Bumrah might have taken Warner's head off. He is even more of midget than finch who broke his finger. Shami and bumrah are more than capable of neutralizing smith. This is a ruthless indian attack and it's very difficult to play them especially when all 3 of them can hit the deck hard. Australia were never winning the third and 4th tests vs india regardless.
India also played 2 walking wickets as openers. india missed their 2 best openers and that would have made a difference.
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