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Labour leadership: Result will be announced on 4 April [Post #1698]

Interesting move. The candidate of the Unions has beaten off his elder brother.

Will he repay his supporters by taking the party back to the left? If so it will be a dangerous strategy imo.

Interesting times ahead.
 
Great job by Ed. somehow overtaken David, the odds-on favourite from the outset. I think this is good for the party because Ed is keen to move out of the New Labour bubble and try something new, which will probably not be good enough to beat David Cameron for a long time, but will at least freshen up the political landscape. I think that the Tories are pretty safe for now, as long as Cameron remains Prime Minister - many of his cuts do have to be made and he is an excellent politician and speaker with a strong cabinet. but speaking as a member of the Labour party and a left-winger, unsure of just how far I lean (or not), these are exciting times for the party, and for me. sadly my ballot paper for the race got sent to my old address, but Ed's fans gave me plenty of phone calls and sold him very well, so much so that I was hoping for him to win today. now feel disappointed to have missed his speech in Leeds, think I was working that night or something.
 
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Whippy said:
Great job by Ed. somehow overtaken David, the odds-on favourite from the outset. I think this is good for the party because Ed is keen to move out of the New Labour bubble and try something new, which will probably not be good enough to beat David Cameron for a long time, but will at least freshen up the political landscape. I think that the Tories are pretty safe as long as Cameron remains Prime Minister - many of his cuts do have to be made and he is an excellent politician and speaker with a strong cabinet. but speaking as a member of the Labour party and a left-winger, unsure of just how far I lean (or not), these are exciting times for the party.
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That's an admirable attitude to have but power is addictive and do you think Labour MP's would accept say 5-10 years of introspection and being out of power?

We all saw what happened to the Tories with Hague/IDS/Howard etc. Every time an election was lost, the party demanded change.

What this election has shown is that there are only two camps within Labour - David's and Ed's. If David is willing to put away his aspirations to become PM and fully support Ed then I think Ed will have a free reign for many years to come. However, if not then we may see more trouble ahead.
 
the relationship between David and Ed seems pretty chilled, although the manner in which Ed muscled in and stole David's glory was gutsy and could have annoyed the older Milliband. I hope enough of David Milliband's supporters in the party understand that this is the time to trust a leader for at least a few years, because since Labour lost the election, following the party has been decidedly uneventful and frustrating without any particular direction being taken, and somebody new does deserve a chance, whoever that might be.

even if the leader changes with every election as could well happen in these power-hungry times, that is sometimes no worse a set of circumstances than sticking with the same bloke. in terms of the Tories, Hague and Howard given a few years each were actually not that bad, they were just hindered by the lingering and deep unpopularity of their party - and the dominance of Blair, who at the peak of his powers remains one of the finest politicians I have seen. Hague and Howard both got some good reviews, and contributed to the eventual regain of power under Cameron. IDS was a joke of course, but we don't talk about him.
 
I'd very surprised if anything changes with regards to foreign policy (which is what is most important) no matter which of these guys may or may not be the next PM.

Puppet on the left or puppet on the right?
 
Diane Abbot lost her vote ages ago.

She had appeared on lbc radio the other day and put her foot in it.

She was asked what her thoughts were on the recession. what would she do if she was to lay off anyone. Dianes answer to this was to lay off the blackman. Asked why she came bac with a piful response that they are not strong enough to build up their career ladder.

Now to me that is an insult and a racial comment yes your thinking whats going on in her head. She is a black woman if no-one knw this.
 
Whippy said:
the relationship between David and Ed seems pretty chilled, although the manner in which Ed muscled in and stole David's glory was gutsy and could have annoyed the older Milliband. I hope enough of David Milliband's supporters in the party understand that this is the time to trust a leader for at least a few years, because since Labour lost the election, following the party has been decidedly uneventful and frustrating without any particular direction being taken, and somebody new does deserve a chance, whoever that might be.

even if the leader changes with every election as could well happen in these power-hungry times, that is sometimes no worse a set of circumstances than sticking with the same bloke. in terms of the Tories, Hague and Howard given a few years each were actually not that bad, they were just hindered by the lingering and deep unpopularity of their party - and the dominance of Blair, who at the peak of his powers remains one of the finest politicians I have seen. Hague and Howard both got some good reviews, and contributed to the eventual regain of power under Cameron. IDS was a joke of course, but we don't talk about him.
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David had tears in his eyes as his brother spoke about him in his victory speech
 
I didn't see the speech. were these happy and touched years or gutted I didn't win tears? I read the bbc article which said that they shared a hug, so I presumed all was fine and dandy.
 
Twitter

DMiliband: I'm moved & honoured by your support & proud of the campaign we ran together. I now passionately want Ed to have a united Party behind him.

:)
 
LucyK said:
Diane Abbot lost her vote ages ago.

She had appeared on lbc radio the other day and put her foot in it.

She was asked what her thoughts were on the recession. what would she do if she was to lay off anyone. Dianes answer to this was to lay off the blackman. Asked why she came bac with a piful response that they are not strong enough to build up their career ladder.

Now to me that is an insult and a racial comment yes your thinking whats going on in her head. She is a black woman if no-one knw this.
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You must have missed her sarcasm.

Accusing Diane of being anti-black is like saying Peter Tatchell is homophobic. It's ludicrous.
 
Its funny how the Milibands say they're going to bring unity to the party,they cant bring unity to their own family !

On a more serious note,this isnt as risky as the right-wingers are making it out to be.The reason why Labour,or one of the reasons was that it tried to pander to the Tory votes and right-wing media,ignoring their grassroot supporters,trade unions and traditional leftys.

However,it is risky in a sense that it may be a push quite far to the left,but its interesting how Labour have voted here.

The safe option would've been David M.They've gone for something different.Cameron may have his hands full here with Ed M,he'd probably had been dealing with someone much similar in David.Ed Miliband however is a different kettle of fish,he's much more vocal and much more to the left,you know where he stands and where his allegiances are.

Its been a smooth transition period which Labour have conducted themselves fairly well....''sobs'',if only Pakistan had this kind of democracy !
 
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Are these the brothers that changed their surnames?

Not particularly interested in Politics, but as soon as Ed was announced winner, Labours chances of winning the next election become worse, according some bookies (not Mr Gupta)
 
Milibands are jewish

Ed Miliband is a Jewish, If he gets elected in the next election then he will definetely join in the war against Iran with USA. He will protect Israel and its interests. There will be no hope for Palestine.

on the hand, If Shahid Malik won the Dewsbury election this year then he could have stood in the Leadership contest but do you think he would have go the backing from the MPs and the Trade Unions or he would have been just labelled as a hopeful Muslim/Asian candidate? IMO Shahid Malik is certainly better than Ed Miliband and am not saying this because he's a Muslim and Ed is jewish, its because Shahid Malik is a better communicator and negotiater.
 
I dont rate Shahid Malik very highly as a politician!!!
 
'New World Order' - if Shahid Malik ever became PM of UK, he'd be part of it - and actively working towards it!
 
Doesn't matter who wins the election let alone who the leader is. Look at Clegg, sold out his liberal views.
 
David Miliband loosing means labour not winning next election and Tories screwing poor further.

Did some one mention crook Shahid Malik? Guy couldn't answer in Question time and people think he would have been good leader. I hope he never wins again.
 
lol@shahid malik

I think the only asian labour high roler is sadiq khan.


Ed miliband doesn't have most of the labour mp's on his side and he was part of gordon brown's clique. I can't see him lasting beyond the next election.
 
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Was supporting David but nevermind, hopefully Ed can take Labiur forward in time for the next elections

Also the Jewish angle...:))):))):))) jeez!
 
defender said:
Ed Miliband is a Jewish, If he gets elected in the next election then he will definetely join in the war against Iran with USA. He will protect Israel and its interests. There will be no hope for Palestine.

on the hand, If Shahid Malik won the Dewsbury election this year then he could have stood in the Leadership contest but do you think he would have go the backing from the MPs and the Trade Unions or he would have been just labelled as a hopeful Muslim/Asian candidate? IMO Shahid Malik is certainly better than Ed Miliband and am not saying this because he's a Muslim and Ed is jewish, its because Shahid Malik is a better communicator and negotiater.
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:)))
What a racist post !

You do know that both Milibands are very vocal on setting up a two-state/creation of Palestine ?

Do some research before ranting and raving.
 
More than 700 new members of the party since the leadership announcement, that's a new member ever 108 seconds.
 
SempreSami said:
More than 700 new members of the party since the leadership announcement, that's a new member ever 108 seconds.
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Excellent! New leadership...Tories dragging down Britain with their cuts and 'policies' (as usual) as well as the Lib Dem lota marriage with the Tories ought to bring back Labour in the next elections hopefully
 
You do know that both Milibands are very vocal on setting up a two-state/creation of Palestine ?
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Their mother was an ardent supporter of the palestine cause too.
 
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So when his party and brother need him most, David is going to take his ball home and quit the shadow cabinet.

Nice one David, show us what you're made of.



Ed Miliband has fuelled speculation that his brother David is about to bow out of frontline politics after being defeated in the Labour leadership election.

The new Labour leader said in a radio interview that Britain had "not heard the last" from his brother, who is expected to make an announcement about his future later today.

David Miliband left the party's annual conference in Manchester after his brother delivered the keynote speech as leader yesterday.
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http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2010/sep/29/david-miliband-poised-quit-frontbench
 
Gabbar Singh said:
So when his party and brother need him most, David is going to take his ball home and quit the shadow cabinet.

Nice one David, show us what you're made of.
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You could argue that by not being part of the set up, he is eliminating all the 'brother tension struggle' headlines & potential for conflict in the long run - as characterised by the Blair/Brown relationship
 
Oxy said:
You could argue that by not being part of the set up, he is eliminating all the 'brother tension struggle' headlines & potential for conflict in the long run - as characterised by the Blair/Brown relationship
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Well only time will tell.

In the short term things will be more harmonious without David but given the majority of Labour MPs wanted David over Ed, I think his presence would have helped with unity within the party long term.

When things start to go wrong for Ed, I can't see the David supporters within the party keeping quiet.
 
Interesting,he's walking away from the front-bench and will remain a backbencher.That could be perceived within the party as a ''leader in exile'' position.

David cannot undermine Ed here with all these distractions,let him get on with this job as leader.
 
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Red Ed, the best thing that could have ever happened to Dave and the Tories. Hope his tenure as Labour leader continues for a long time.
 
Gabbar Singh said:
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Red Ed, the best thing that could have ever happened to Dave and the Tories. Hope his tenure as Labour leader continues for a long time.
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why he keeps repeating the same thing over and over again.
 
Seen his Prime Minister's Question time performances ?

It is man vs boy - truly cringeworthy.Miliband is unelectable.

Conservatives are the 'least worst' option it seems to the population but they deserve time to implement their policies.Economic front still troubling though,that choppy waters' phrase has been recycled so much in the last few months.

Disappointing that nobody gave the Liberal Democrats a fair hearing during 2001-2009,it was only until Clegg went into the TV debates did people wake up.They still deserve a fair hearing and not being used as a scapegoat.
 
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:))) Oh dear Ed :facepalm:
 
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Miliband running out of time to beat the odds of an election win

Labour figures say leader must ‘raise his game’ and define what he stands for as poll reveals his personal rating is falling

Time is running out for Ed Miliband to turn around his personal ratings if Labour is to win the next general election, according to the latest "poll of polls" for The Independent.

After nine months as the Labour leader, Mr Miliband is more unpopular than Iain Duncan Smith was at the same stage of his leadership of the Conservative Party in 2002. Mr Duncan Smith was ousted by his party the following year, before he got the chance to fight a general election.

Only 34 per cent of people are satisfied with the way Mr Miliband is doing his job, while 48 per cent of them are dissatisfied. His net rating of minus 14 points is worse than Mr Duncan Smith's overall rating of minus 9 points in June 2002.

John Curtice, a Professor of Politics at Strathclyde University who compiled the "poll of polls", found that Mr Miliband's personal ratings had dropped to a new low among all four polling companies included in his study: ComRes, Ipsos MORI, ICM and YouGov.
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http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...beat-the-odds-of-an-election-win-2306969.html
 
Ed's best performance that was.Cameron was poor today.The Labour spin doctors should let Ed be Ed and not try and model him on someone he isn't.Chris Bryant was very animated as well.
 
Anyone got a video of yesterday's question time?
 
BBC Iplayer is your friend - BBC Parliament channel - Wednesday 12pm.

-

Milliband is taking a big risk and was pleased to see him break that Robotic embarrassing shackle.

If News COrp come back stronger like Athletes Foot, he'll have problems; But he has to go for the jugular now and pressure for better Media plurality and Independent functioning regulation.

Did well in PMQ but TBF any opposition leader untainted with NewsCorp should really win that one; Its like an open goal.

He didn't get too angry, which is good - He was more measured and that played very well to the public.

-

Long road ahead; Just wish Murdoch would be neutered here; Too much power for one organisation.
 
Not looking good for Ed. Is he a secret Tory backed trojan horse? Because he's certainly acting like one :)

Ed Miliband's leadership suffers another blow today with an exclusive Independent on Sunday poll showing only his brother can secure Labour a lead over the Conservatives.

With Ed in charge, voters are split, putting Labour neck and neck with the Tories on 38 per cent. But when respondents were asked by ComRes how they would vote with alternative Labour leaders, David Miliband was three points ahead of David Cameron, on 38 points to 35. It threatens to reopen the deep wounds from when Ed beat his older brother to become Labour leader in September 2010.

Ed Miliband's personal ratings have also slumped below those of Nick Clegg – down to -35 per cent, compared with -32 for the Lib Dem leader. Mr Cameron's personal rating has leapt from -25 in December to -9 points.

Mr Miliband is now the least popular party leader; just 36 per cent of Labour voters think he is turning out to be good. Of the Lib Dems, 47 per cent back Nick Clegg, and 74 per cent of Tories approve of Mr Cameron as PM.
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http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...nd-would-beat-cameron--unlike-ed-6292887.html

The Conservatives have forged a five-point lead over Labour, according to the latest Guardian/ICM poll, suggesting David Cameron would stand on the verge of an outright majority if an election were held now.

The Tories are on 40%, up three percentage points from December, while Labour has drifted down one to 35%. The Liberal Democrats are on 16%, up one.

The Tories' standing is their highest since before the general election in the Guardian/ICM series – they last stood at 40% in March 2010. Their lead is the biggest since the eight-point edge they enjoyed in June 2010, a few weeks after Cameron moved into Downing Street.

The result will add to the pressure on Ed Miliband, who has endured a difficult few weeks amid whispering about his performance and rows with union leaders over his attempt to harden his party's line on the deficit. Len McCluskey, the general secretary of Unite, attacked Miliband after the Labour leader and Ed Balls backed the public sector pay freeze and signalled they could not currently promise to reverse any of the coalition's spending cuts.

The poll will provide welcome relief for Cameron as he braces himself for a battle with the House of Lords over welfare reform after the government suffered its fifth defeat in the upper house on the welfare reform bill .
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http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2012/jan/23/david-cameron-soars-in-poll
 
Any suggestions?

I mean if David came back as leader it could work, as Newsnight crazily showed how most "normal" people wanted David when the Labour Leadership elections were taking place:

I remember this (Skip to 1:00):

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Which kind of proves Plato right!

But I think David will come back as part of the Team in the run-up to the election; On account of his grass-roots work - Brothers uniting and all.

The Union issue, if it is genuine, is Ed the Gambler; He's essentially trying to appear Economically stable whilst tearing media perceptions of him being in-bed with the Union line. Hoping of course that the Union supporters will vote Labour regardless.
 
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Even after a pathetic Tory budget Labour are humiliated in Bradford West.

So how long does Ed have left before he's kicked out?
 
The optimism amongst many in the party about Ed's appointment seems laughable now, I am personally embarrassed by my prediction that he would do well. Public opinion of the Coalition has been so negative that any half-decent politician would have pwned Cameron and be on the road to a Labour win. Even with Ed, the polls are level :))
 
Whippy said:
The optimism amongst many in the party about Ed's appointment seems laughable now, I am personally embarrassed by my prediction that he would do well. Public opinion of the Coalition has been so negative that any half-decent politician would have pwned Cameron and be on the road to a Labour win. Even with Ed, the polls are level :))
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for real, millaband has foiled all efforts to destroy tory credibility caused by the incompetence of tory politicians.
 
I've been to a Q&A session with Miliband D. and he was excellent, had positive things to say about the NHS and education though I disagree with his foreign policy. Ed Balls is a good politician as well, one of my lecturers worked for him before she got her PhD and apparently he is lightning-quick mentally and a relentless worker. Labour picked the wrong Miliband and also the wrong Ed, got it doubly wrong :))

And to think a combination of further cracks in the Coalition, decent work by the Shadow Cabinet and Basil Brush somehow clinging onto his position could lead to this wrong Miliband and wrong Ed, the star of the 'These Strikes Are Wrong' atrocity of rhetoric, this walking self-parody, assuming the office of Prime Minister and representing Britain on the world stage. This could actually happen. Frightening.
 
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They've picked the wrong Miliband haven't they ?

Even after donor scandal, pasty-gate, fuel tanker crisis, all in a space of this week - Labour STILL cannot capitalise !

Listening to David Miliband, on Question Time and other appearances, he is far more convincing than Ed, whose nasally voice and poorly defined policies is hardly inspiring in terms of a leader.

The only time Ed Miliband has caught the public mood was with the phone-hacking scandal. He should stick to that anti-establishment tone, bashing the millionaires as we have seen from him occasionally (although I assume Ed Balls has had a large role in that) but I don't see him as a future PM.

If there is economic growth and falling unemployment by the time of the next elections in 2015, then I think the Tories will remain in power, perhaps without a coalition partner. Even after all these scandals, they still have a good chance of being re-elected in 2015 - what a damning indictment on the shambles of an 'opposition' in this country.
 
Markhor said:
They've picked the wrong Miliband haven't they ?

Even after donor scandal, pasty-gate, fuel tanker crisis, all in a space of this week - Labour STILL cannot capitalise !

Listening to David Miliband, on Question Time and other appearances, he is far more convincing than Ed, whose nasally voice and poorly defined policies is hardly inspiring in terms of a leader.

The only time Ed Miliband has caught the public mood was with the phone-hacking scandal. He should stick to that anti-establishment tone, bashing the millionaires as we have seen from him occasionally (although I assume Ed Balls has had a large role in that) but I don't see him as a future PM.

If there is economic growth and falling unemployment by the time of the next elections in 2015, then I think the Tories will remain in power, perhaps without a coalition partner. Even after all these scandals, they still have a good chance of being re-elected in 2015 - what a damning indictment on the shambles of an 'opposition' in this country.
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I think most people said that on Day 1.
 
The last Labour leader worth voting for was Michael Foot, possibly John Smith had he not sadly passed away. Kinnock started the erosion of the party and Blair finally destroyed it, turning it into a British version of the American democratic party. We now have a parliament full of the centre-right/right-wing with no difference between the two main parties or the pathetic liberal democrat party,the few honorable exceptions in the house have no real power to influence policy.

Men like Bevan, Benn and foot would be hounded out of the party these days as extremeist and unrealistic, thoroughly depressing.
 
DC said:
The last Labour leader worth voting for was Michael Foot, possibly John Smith had he not sadly passed away. Kinnock started the erosion of the party and Blair finally destroyed it, turning it into a British version of the American democratic party. We now have a parliament full of the centre-right/right-wing with no difference between the two main parties or the pathetic liberal democrat party,the few honorable exceptions in the house have no real power to influence policy.

Men like Bevan, Benn and foot would be hounded out of the party these days as extremeist and unrealistic, thoroughly depressing.
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True, its a shame that all parties now cater towards the centre ground, and there are very little ideological differences.

However Michael Foot's 1983 election manifesto was called the longest suicide note in history. Tony Blair (a vile, opportunistic human being, a disgrace of a PM) was to the right of former Tory PM Ted Heath. However he did win 3 elections, he won the centre ground - that's where elections are won.

If Labour can claw back the centre ground in 2015, they will win. Even the Tory right-wing press are dissatisfied with Cameron - take the Times spin on the Peter Cruddas donors scandal.

Perhaps Murdoch thinks Cameron isn't right-wing enough, the right-wing press did the same to John Major.

What is alarming for Labour is the total lack of leadership quality in the party, no charisma at all - whereas Galloway had that charisma. Ed Balls, Yvette Cooper, Harriet Harman, not inspiring at all and a disgrace to the traditions of the Labour party - which had charismatic politicians in the past - Bevan, Healey, Benn.
 
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charismatic politicians are built from their experiences in grass roots politics, where the art of oratory and spectacle are as important, if not more than abstract ideas and ideals.

when you have an assembly line of private school --> oxbridge (PPE) --> spad --> election ticket, where are you going to learn how to fire up common people with political ideas.

its a sad state of affairs, thats why i used to like politicians like alan johnson (even though hes labour, hes a good example), hes so much more real than so many of the cookie cutter politicians going around.
 
Good post DC, the British Left is indeed underrepresented, but I disagree slightly on one point; the Blair of 1997 was hot property, and seemed worth voting for at the time. Blair as he developed was of course a very different and shambolic story - didn't have to make the effort though, the Tories were a joke for a good fifteen years and some would say they still are.
 
Labour lost the plot the day they supported illegal occupation of other countries and torture and retention of innocents, the millibands supported this no matter what their marxist background was.

The left in england has a lot more power then the right in terms of media, television and unions but they don't have any charismatic figure head who says what people want to hear.
 
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^Aye, Galloway would be spot on if he didn't speak far too many brutal truths about Israel and the Middle East...the British people prefer the likes of Douglas Murray :35:
 
Whippy said:
^Aye, Galloway would be spot on if he didn't speak far too many brutal truths about Israel and the Middle East...the British people prefer the likes of Douglas Murray :35:
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Galloway would do a similar job as ed balls, yvette cooper or harriet harman would probably be better super glue.
 
You see the issue is who actually votes. If the people who benefit most from Leftist policies either voted or lived in constituencies that matter, it could change things.

This will be more important once the Tories get their Constituency Border reforms through; Labour is gonna be hit through different borders, and less MP's.

Back in the day when Labour adopted Clinton style fighting strategies they started to win. This meant though, you have to pander to the marginal seats and the centre.

The issue was constantly then pandering to focus groups and popular opinion to derive policies aswell as the awful snobbish metropolitan elite dictating Labour's strategy.

Yes they won 3 elections, but the first was a gimme after the Tory's own self-destruction.

Labour should have used their advantage to be even more progressive and shift the spectrum to the left; They weren't left enough Economically, when they actually had a blank slate - I mean Hague and IDS and Howard were a joke to be up against. If George Osborne can stil put through these policies in the face of opposition I'm astounded that when Labour had absolutely no real opposition, they didn't reform more.

Cameron is one slick dude; Ed Milliband I feel, is a genuine guy - He's just not as good oratory wise and image wise, as David Milliband.

Can Labour afford to change their Leader?

David Milliband will be back; Especially if Labour lose the next general election.

Key will be what happens to the Lib Dem seats; My constituency will shift to Labour for sure, but what happens elsewhere will be crucial. In that sense I can see third parties making big gains -

Coalitions will keep happening for some time I feel.

- Expect Any news of growth, a lesser debt and a nice tax-cut to really see the Tories fly in the next election. It's gonna be tough for those on the left.
 
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Douglas Murray - Him and Mahdi Hassan have had some epic battles.
 
Well here we are again. The front runner for the leadership contest, Chuka Umunna, has withdrawn citing intrusion into his private life (he must have known that when he announced he was running - perhaps he just doesn't want to lead a party which will struggle to win in 2020). That leaves Andy Burnham, Yvette Cooper aka Mrs Ed Balls and Liz Kendall as the favourites.

Incidentally Jim Murphy, the Scottish Labour leader, has also stepped down and took a swipe at Len McCluskey the Unite Union boss. He said:

“It is the destructive behaviour of one high profile trade unionist.

“One of the things about stepping down is that you can say things in public that so many people in the Labour Party only say in private.

“So whether it is in Scotland or in the contest to come in the UK, we cannot have our leaders selected or deselected by the grudges and grievances of one prominent man.

“The leader of the Scottish Labour Party doesn’t serve at the grace of Len McCluskey, and the next leader of the UK Labour Party should not be picked by Len McCluskey.”
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"McCluskey and the Unite leadership are the kind of people who can back the wrong horse in a one horse race."
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Labour has now lost its leader, its Scottish leader, its Shadow Chancellor, its Shadow Foreign Secretary, and its front runner in the leadership contest all in the space of a week or so.
 
Labour is perceived to be too right wing for Scotland and too left wing for England. The next leader needs to find a middle ground that can appeal to both regions of the UK. UKIP also finished 2nd in many of the traditional Labour heartlands in the North and could be well placed for 2020 to displace some Labour MPs there. Labour also needs to reach out to middle England and dispel the notion that its anti-business.

Personally I'd - Keep the 45p rate of tax and drop policy of going to 50p. Promote the idea that Labour will not tax you to death if you aspire to be a big earner.

- Scrap the Mansion Tax and instead charge a higher rate of stamp duty for foreign buyers. This was an ill-judged policy that doesn't raise that much revenue.

- Do something about the housing crisis, make it easier for councils to borrow to build new affordable housing.

- Call for an EU referendum in 2016, not 2017 and pledge to repatriate more powers from Brussels. Address peoples' concerns about immigration which is Labour's big weakness.

- CLEARLY spell out any cuts to public spending, Labour were far too vague at this election about cuts and stuck to the vague notion of "balancing current spending" which would've meant Labour would've had to borrow more. Instead match the Tory commitment to getting the overall budget into surplus. That way you alleviate people's concerns that Labour are fiscally irresponsible (despite Labour running more surpluses in government than the Tories ever did in 18 years).

The next leader needs to have some fire in their belly too. This slick corporate PR officer image that modern day politicians have just doesn't appeal to voters, they want someone authentic and not some Oxbridge educated metropolitan elitist.

Andy Burnham fits that bill, despite being Oxbridge educated but I don't know if he'll appeal to Middle England. Yvette Cooper is devoid of charisma. Maybe they should skip a generation, as Burnham and Cooper have the baggage of the Blair-Brown era having served in their Cabinets, and go for Liz Kendall - and promote the idea of the first Labour female PM.

Either way Labour faces a big struggle to get back into government.
 
Labour should stop all the dogma for a little while , most people in the country agree with what they say about conditions and wages but they are way too preachy, in your face and militant about it

They need to get a leader who is charismatic and people can relate to, burnham seems a good choice and you would have all of merseyside on board
 
Shamsher said:
Labour are still suffering from messing up the country from last time around, the illegal Iraq War and letting in so many immigrants. I don't trust them one bit.

If you work hard and want to actually achieve something in your life then the tories are better.
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This statement by David Cameroon says it all:

I'll tell the first meeting of the Conservative Cabinet, "We are the real party of working people, putting hardworking taxpayers first."
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It's encouraging news that unemployment is at a seven year low - we are delivering as the real party of working people.
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seems like the only way labour will have a seat at the table going forwards is to re-adopt a more rightist new labour philosophy, essentialy making them closet tories. in the present economic and social climate, xenophobia is globally rampant, and when a country is not rich enough to buy everyone off, people have to rely on work - and so taxes become the other issue they care about along with not squandering money on non-domestic campaigns like wars.

im surprised that labours most recent record of iraq and the economy was cited as a reason for their failure this time, particularly in scotland as i heard it, when it seemed not to have mattered so much in the much closer contest in the 2010 elections.
 
Markhor said:
Labour is perceived to be too right wing for Scotland and too left wing for England. The next leader needs to find a middle ground that can appeal to both regions of the UK. UKIP also finished 2nd in many of the traditional Labour heartlands in the North and could be well placed for 2020 to displace some Labour MPs there. Labour also needs to reach out to middle England and dispel the notion that its anti-business.

Personally I'd - Keep the 45p rate of tax and drop policy of going to 50p. Promote the idea that Labour will not tax you to death if you aspire to be a big earner.

- Scrap the Mansion Tax and instead charge a higher rate of stamp duty for foreign buyers. This was an ill-judged policy that doesn't raise that much revenue.

- Do something about the housing crisis, make it easier for councils to borrow to build new affordable housing.

- Call for an EU referendum in 2016, not 2017 and pledge to repatriate more powers from Brussels. Address peoples' concerns about immigration which is Labour's big weakness.

- CLEARLY spell out any cuts to public spending, Labour were far too vague at this election about cuts and stuck to the vague notion of "balancing current spending" which would've meant Labour would've had to borrow more. Instead match the Tory commitment to getting the overall budget into surplus. That way you alleviate people's concerns that Labour are fiscally irresponsible (despite Labour running more surpluses in government than the Tories ever did in 18 years).

The next leader needs to have some fire in their belly too. This slick corporate PR officer image that modern day politicians have just doesn't appeal to voters, they want someone authentic and not some Oxbridge educated metropolitan elitist.

Andy Burnham fits that bill, despite being Oxbridge educated but I don't know if he'll appeal to Middle England. Yvette Cooper is devoid of charisma. Maybe they should skip a generation, as Burnham and Cooper have the baggage of the Blair-Brown era having served in their Cabinets, and go for Liz Kendall - and promote the idea of the first Labour female PM.

Either way Labour faces a big struggle to get back into government.
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i agree that thats what they should do philosophically, but i dont believe theyll do it, and i dont believe theyll get more votes if they do.

they do have to fix the economic stigma, but what you highlight is suspect wont be enough to compete with the tory package to attract new votes, and will alienate socialists who are existing labour voters. i think you were right that being specific about spend and borrowing and balancing the budget would go a long way potentially to dispelling the negative connotation, but a) there are too many variables for any party to do that (including the tories in this campaign) b) theres no money - if you want to balance things you either (i) borrow (burden future generations and expose yourself further in the inevitable next recession), (ii) cut (alienate existing support base) or (iii) tax (alienate the largest growing demographic today).

i think the tories won the economic battle in this election because they went for (ii) which does very little to hurt their traditional support base, and attracts those who are aspiring - the welfare state is broken in this business cycle, because of the lack of funds, and so it seems they took on more support than everyone was expecting. i admit that i have a rather more pessimistic view of the electorate than most, and believe that in general, particularly when a society is aspiring economically and people have hope they can achieve economic fruits, that bread and butter issues dominate the decision - ie how much money they will have on their table.

UKIP is looking good today, but five years is a long time. pakistan looked great after the 99 world cup, a young immensely talented team that people at the time expected to sweep the 03 cup, but we remember what happened then!
 
Labour supporters like Len McCluskey, Owen Jones, Polly Toynbee etc are still saying that Labour lost the election because they were not left wing enough - sure if you want to be in opposition for the next 20 years go right ahead and move further to the left.
 
it was true in scotland where they could have gained more seats but not true in england

so it can be argued both ways

people are making it out as being policy based but then go on to suggest the simple expedient of having a different brother and slightly better presentation of the argument would have made a difference

most of these elections now are based on personality politics and whether the media buy into the personality and they bought into Nick Clegg last time and they went against Ed Miliband this time

Cameron in effect won by default as he was perceived to have run a weak campaign where he had seemingly already given up
 
Liz Kendall's leadership bid is building up a lot of momentum.

Why we are endorsing Liz Kendall for the Labour leadership

Chuka Umunna, Emma Reynolds, Stephen Twigg and Jonathan Reynolds - Chuka Umunna's leadership team - explain why they're backing Liz Kendall's campaign for the Labour leadership.

In this time of change our party must move beyond its comfort zone and find new ways of realising its age-old goals of equality and freedom.

The Labour Party’s greatest strength has always been our commitment to a society that is fairer and freer, more equal and more democratic. Our mission has always been to apply that commitment to the circumstances of our time. Today, when those circumstances are changing increasingly rapidly and old assumptions are breaking down, that task is tougher, and more pressing, than ever.

It is no longer simply enough to get into power and, from Whitehall, pull the old social-democratic levers: tax rates and regulation, welfare payments and tax credits. They have their place but these alone are inadequate to the task of delivering a fair, united society at a time when technology cycles are speeding up, new economic competitors are on the rise and the make-up and identity of our country are evolving. Living up to our age-old mission demands a willingness to grapple with the economic, social and global challenges as they are before us now.

Our movement faces three main, interlocking economic questions that are much more acute now than in the past: How to deliver excellent public services at a time when money is tight? How to harness the technological changes that are disrupting established industries and destroying jobs to create new, better opportunities? And how to remain competitive in a time of globalisation, paying our way in the world over the coming decades?

The answers, too, are interlocking. They include a more creative and strategic relationship between the state and business, a much better use of government’s convening power to channel investment into R&D and a genuinely life-long education system. The only sustainable foundation for Britain’s future prosperity is better productivity and a confident, adaptive workforce - not the private consumption and house price inflation on which our economy has too often been based in the past.

Our movement also faces newly urgent social questions. Building solidarity between different segments of the country is a bigger task today than it was in 1997. The very coherence of the United Kingdom is at risk. Regional identity is becoming more pronounced. In an increasingly diverse society, integration of different communities is ever-more essential. Our ageing population puts new pressures on public services and on the pact between the generations.

As the party that has always stood for a cohesive society, we in Labour must lead the charge in transforming the institutions of our country to keep up with evolving realities. That means reshaping the state: moving towards a more federal United Kingdom, devolving power and money to cities and regions, reforming our electoral system and political bodies to reflect the more open and pluralistic country they represent. And it means a new approach to public services: integrating health, mental health and social care services, starting at “what works” and putting the principles of prevention and innovation at the heart of the welfare state.

As the internationalists of British politics, those who see responsibilities and opportunities beyond our own borders, we in Labour must also champion a new approach to the world stage. Britain is no longer a recent superpower with an automatic claim to a place at the top table of nations, but a country with a moderately large population that must earn its right to that place. As CNN’s Fareed Zakaria wrote last week, Britain “has essentially resigned as a global power” under David Cameron - but is “even now, a country with the talent, history and capacity to shape the international order.”

So let our party lead this argument for a smart and engaged use of Britain’s vast soft power, its military expertise and specialisms and the versatility and reach that come from its unique network of alliances. We should, for example, fight to stay in the EU not just out of economic, transactional reasons but as part of a bigger, emotional, fundamentally optimistic vision of Britain’s future: as a country that chooses prosperity, security and geopolitical influence over an isolation that (as Zakaria concludes) would be bad not just for us, but for the world as a whole.

The job for the next Labour leader is to weave these imperatives, economic, social and global, into a credible national story of a country proud of its history and confident of owning the future. A vision of a Britain in which all can get on, whose citizens are financially secure and in control of their lives and happiness - and are, collectively, secure and effective in the wider world. A vision both rooted in the party’s eternal values and alive to the complexities and realities of the context in which we must now realise them.

For us, our next leader must get this vision right. On all these big subjects, Liz Kendall has asked the tough questions and started to chart a course to the answers. She has been courageous in challenging conventional wisdom. She has no compunction in moving Labour beyond our comfort zone and is determined to build a team ready to chart a route forward. This is exactly what our party needs and that is why we are nominating her to be the next leader of the Labour Party.

Chuka Umunna, Labour MP for Streatham & Shadow Business Secretary

Emma Reynolds, Labour MP for Wolverhampton North East & Shadow Communities Secretary

Jonathan Reynolds, Labour MP for Stalybridge and Hyde & Shadow Climate Change Minister

Stephen Twigg, Labour MP for Liverpool West Derby & Shadow Justice Minister
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http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2015/05/why-we-are-endorsing-liz-kendall-labour-leadership
 
So we are down to 4 candidates:

Burnham, Cooper, Kendal and Corbyn.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-32654262

Burnham or Corbyn as leader and Tom Watson as deputy leader would be a dream ticket for the Tories. Whoever wins this contest I cannot see them becoming PM in 2020. Labour will lose again and then David Miliband will return to rescue the party or perhaps Chuka will give it a go.
 
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