Lesson learned, winning in UAE is no piece of cake

[Hitman]

How on earth did Pakistan get whitewashed by Sri Lanka?

I mean a below average team that was whitewashed by us in the last tour in all 3 formats that too at their home just whitewashed the best Test side from Asia that too at their own den.

How on earth did it happen?

 

[Big Mac]

Sri Lanka copied Pakistan.

Pakistan tried to be something else.

 

[troodon]

I don't buy into misyou exit. They were well into their 40's and they were on a bad decline.

Pak are still the better team on paper. They underperformed like they normally do. Lanka seized the opportunity and blanked them.


It is obvious Pak struggles against quality spin irrespective of conditions. Hearth destroyed them on a relatively flat USE pitches.

 

[Mamoon]

It should have happened years ago. We have been mediocre in the UAE barring a series or two and this was long time coming.

 

[Mp812]

The test rankings are probably now gonna get acceptance as representing true picture of where teams stand.
The two closely ranked test teams had a hard fought series and eventually SL won 2-0 due to positive attitude and well as not making the usual mistake of underestimating the opposition and playing as a cohesive unit despite Angelo's absence.

 

[Amjid Javed]

Pathetic batting all series and poor bowling in 1st inns of both gsmes. Deserved loss we were poor in both games.

 

[Major]

This series was an important lesson for everyone out there.

Over the yeara i read posts on this forum, that oh uae is very easy. Its a home track for pakista. Any captain could dominate here. Your captain doesnt matter only spinners matter.

Pakistan held an undefeated track record in abu dhabi, pakistan also held an undefeated series record in uae. All this under misbah ul haq.

The moment the guy left, we lost 2 down the trott.

What i learned today that misbah made it look easy.

In truth, uae isnt as easy as misbah made it loom like

 

[Abdul]

"We'll be okay in UAE without Misbah and Younis"

 

[Savak]

Not playing 2 specialist spinners was extremely criminal, under bowling Harris Sohail was also criminal.

 

[rashmin]

Not playing 2 specialist spinners was extremely criminal, under bowling Harris Sohail was also criminal.

Believe me Pak fans would not learn lesson, they will still misinterpret the real potential of Pak players, minimize other nations' players. After winning one CT final recently, they thought they were unbeatable in any format. When India won everything in SL, Pak fans (see predictions thread), thought it would an easy walk over SL. Guys one CT final win does not make a team great in all formats.

 

[Someone]

Easy for Rangana and Dilruwan

 

[Savak]

Believe me Pak fans would not learn lesson, they will still misinterpret the real potential of Pak players, minimize other nations' players. After winning one CT final recently, they thought they were unbeatable in any format. When India won everything in SL, Pak fans (see predictions thread), thought it would an easy walk over SL. Guys one CT final win does not make a team great in all formats.

That CT win was very much needed for us given all the challenges we had been facing as a nation for so long. You cannot blame the players, the media and the fans for celebrating that incredible feat like no tommorow. This defeat will bring the players down to earth.

 

[Syed1]

Here we go again... Misbah fans living in the past.


Fun fact... Misbah retired more than 6 months ago. Nobody cares about his captaincy tenure. OP should learn to support the team rather than an individual.

 

[WhenSultansBowled]

1st test: Plays with 3 pacers, criticism from everyone, what are you doing? It is UAE must play 2 spinners!!

2nd test: Keeps on playing with 3 pacers

They're lucky only Amir broke. I was expecting Yasir Shah to get injured as well

 

[abhayjj]

This series was an important lesson for everyone out there.

Over the yeara i read posts on this forum, that oh uae is very easy. Its a home track for pakista. Any captain could dominate here. Your captain doesnt matter only spinners matter.

Pakistan held an undefeated track record in abu dhabi, pakistan also held an undefeated series record in uae. All this under misbah ul haq.

The moment the guy left, we lost 2 down the trott.

What i learned today that misbah made it look easy.

In truth, uae isnt as easy as misbah made it loom like

Truly Misbah was the most underrated inhouse and most respected pakistani player worldwide

Really a gentleman and a world class player

as Harsha Bhogle said

View attachment 76751

View attachment 76752

 

[IAJ]

Rubbish thread! Once again a fan'boy trying to put an individual before the team.

Misbah was an experienced guy, even before he was made captain and you can not compare current team with his team. Misbah was himself a good batsman and had Younis and had other experienced players at disposal.

This is a team with many young and inexperienced players. Give these guys another 5 years (you have to drop the poor players like Masood of course) and you will see how good these guys also can play.

Don't try to score few cheap points, look at the bigger picture. I have nothing against Misbah and respect him and supported him and his team, but posters like you are taking this whole to another level.

 

[Red Devil]

Rubbish thread! Once again a fan'boy trying to put an individual before the team.

Misbah was an experienced guy, even before he was made captain and you can not compare current team with his team. Misbah was himself a good batsman and had Younis and had other experienced players at disposal.

This is a team with many young and inexperienced players. Give these guys another 5 years (you have to drop the poor players like Masood of course) and you will see how good these guys also can play.

Don't try to score few cheap points, look at the bigger picture. I have nothing against Misbah and respect him and supported him and his team, but posters like you are taking this whole to another level.

If you ignore the fanboyy part for a second, I think he's making a good point because people tend to belittle Misbah and YK's achievements quite often. Still remember how Younis' hundreds were labeled as soft runs and whatnot.

 

[shaz619]

If you ignore the fanboyy part for a second, I think he's making a good point because people tend to belittle Misbah and YK's achievements quite often. Still remember how Younis' hundreds were labeled as soft runs and whatnot.

So true, people thought you just show up in the UAE and expect to win. Hopefully these guys learn from this defeat and not make the same mistakes again. Many had you believe we'd attain glory immediately the moment Khan and Misbah left, now we've lost 2-0 to a low ranked Test team that was demoralised severely by India.

 

[Major]

Rubbish thread! Once again a fan'boy trying to put an individual before the team.

Misbah was an experienced guy, even before he was made captain and you can not compare current team with his team. Misbah was himself a good batsman and had Younis and had other experienced players at disposal.

This is a team with many young and inexperienced players. Give these guys another 5 years (you have to drop the poor players like Masood of course) and you will see how good these guys also can play.

Don't try to score few cheap points, look at the bigger picture. I have nothing against Misbah and respect him and supported him and his team, but posters like you are taking this whole to another level.

stop using this inexperience excuse.

THese guys have tons of domestic experience on them. Guys like Sarfraz, Azhar and Shafiq have played under Misbah. Didn't these guys learn a thing from Misbah, that go with the conditions.

Sarfraz is from karachi for godsake. Karachi is known for its spinning wickets at the club circuit.

5 years is too long. By 5 years teams end up changing completely.

Its a big insult to pakistan, that even after playing for 7 years, knowing the conditions, they made school boy errors

 

[Red Devil]

So true, people thought you just show up in the UAE and expect to win. Hopefully these guys learn from this defeat and not make the same mistakes again. Many had you believe we'd attain glory immediately the moment Khan and Misbah left, now we've lost 2-0 to a low ranked Test team that was demoralised severely by India.

Find it hilarious that people thought we wouldn't even miss two guys who averaged well above 50 in the UAE. Because everyone just assumed that scoring runs there was a piece of cake.

 

[shaz619]

stop using this inexperience excuse.

THese guys have tons of domestic experience on them. Guys like Sarfraz, Azhar and Shafiq have played under Misbah. Didn't these guys learn a thing from Misbah, that go with the conditions.

Sarfraz is from karachi for godsake. Karachi is known for its spinning wickets at the club circuit.

5 years is too long. By 5 years teams end up changing completely.

Its a big insult to pakistan, that even after playing for 7 years, knowing the conditions, they made school boy errors

It was almost as if the likes of Azhar, Sarfraz and Shafiq were playing cricket in the UAE for the first time. They should have pushed strongly to deploy 2 spinners on these wickets, even the 1st Test defeat did little to alter the strategy. They don't really have any excuses for the series loss. But at the same time credit to Lanka because they outplayed Pakistan and exposed our fragile line up.

 

[Buffet]

This series was an important lesson for everyone out there.

Over the yeara i read posts on this forum, that oh uae is very easy. Its a home track for pakista. Any captain could dominate here. Your captain doesnt matter only spinners matter.

Pakistan held an undefeated track record in abu dhabi, pakistan also held an undefeated series record in uae. All this under misbah ul haq.

The moment the guy left, we lost 2 down the trott.

What i learned today that misbah made it look easy.

In truth, uae isnt as easy as misbah made it loom like

No captain has dominated in UAE.

 

[Mamoon]

In the UAE, Misbah lost matches to South Africa, New Zealand, Sri Lanka and West Indies. The Abu Dhabi Test vs England in 2015 was also a technical defeat, because England were literally 15 mins away from winning but bad light saved us.

Losing 5 Tests in 3 years does not sound like dominance to me. The reason why we managed to avoid losing a series was mostly down to good fortune and a few fluke performances at the right time.

The only series where we were actually dominant was the one vs Australia in 2014, and it was more down to the incompetence of the opposition rather than our brilliance.

 

[Specialisttailender]

I mean a below average team that was whitewashed by us in the last tour in all 3 formats that too at their home just whitewashed the best Test side from Asia that too at their own den.

How on earth did it happen?

Sri lanka didn't throw away wickets like they did with us, so there was actually a competition this time for Pakistan. If a new unknown debutants doesn't appear in every ODIs then Pakistan might have some competition in ODIs as well. Also, Pakistan is overhyped.

 

[Syed1]

Lack of two spinners and Mickey Arthur was our coach.

 

[Nil Dhumrojal]

Lack of two spinners and Mickey Arthur was our coach.

This mickey won you CT.

 

[Rana]

Winning in UAE against South Asian teams is no piece of cake*

 

[Syed1]

This mickey won you CT.

Nope... Sarfaraz's captaincy, Hasan, Amir and Junaid's brilliance with the ball and Fakhar's brilliance with the bat won us the CT. Team tactics had very little to do with winning CT.

 

[sachin100]

Nope... Sarfaraz's captaincy, Hasan, Amir and Junaid's brilliance with the ball and Fakhar's brilliance with the bat won us the CT. Team tactics had very little to do with winning CT.

so what happened to sarfraz captaincy now ?if u r giving entire credit to his captaincy then captain has to take the blame as well when u lose horribly

 

[the Great Khan]

How did this happen?

1) two excellent players retired, one being the captain. Left a massive hole to fill and added pressure.

2) the tactics were all wrong. We had a nice little formula for the uae that Misbah had refined over the last 7 years. This was ignored. We needed two spinners and possibly three.

3) the UAE isnt home. No matter what anyone says. It takes time to adjust for everyone.

4) lack of test cricket and cricket in general. Preparations werent as good as they should have been

5) overconfidence.

 

[Syed1]

so what happened to sarfraz captaincy now ?if u r giving entire credit to his captaincy then captain has to take the blame as well when u lose horribly

How hard is it to wrap your head around the fact that Sarfaraz has been LOI captain for best part of a year... (more than a year in T20s) while this was his first stint as test captain.

 

[the Great Khan]

also to India fans, enjoy this while it lasts. But i'd like to see how India would fare if they had to play all of their home tests abroad and then their two best players retire.

We have seen what can happen when some key players retire together. It can take time to rebuild. We will need alot of time.

 

[ego-gambit]

also to India fans, enjoy this while it lasts. But i'd like to see how India would fare if they had to play all of their home tests abroad and then their two best players retire.

We have seen what can happen when some key players retire together. It can take time to rebuild. We will need alot of time.

Abroad so you mean Pakistan has no control on how pitches should be in UAE

Than threads like do runs against Srilanka matters ? ? comes up every now & then
Main problem is when you take cricket for granted it hits you hard
I can definitely say If India become overconfident on home series with Srilanka they will also lose test match

 

[Mamoon]

India will not lose 7 matches in 3 years if they adopt UAE as their home, but Pakistani fans love their excuses.

 

[cricketjoshila]

also to India fans, enjoy this while it lasts. But i'd like to see how India would fare if they had to play all of their home tests abroad and then their two best players retire.

We have seen what can happen when some key players retire together. It can take time to rebuild. We will need alot of time.

You have been playing in UAE since 2009.Its your home.

From 2012 to 2013 India lost Dravid Tendulkar Laxman and Sehwag.Still they havent been white washed in India.

 

[in_cutter]

Nope... Sarfaraz's captaincy, Hasan, Amir and Junaid's brilliance with the ball and Fakhar's brilliance with the bat won us the CT. Team tactics had very little to do with winning CT.

Can guarantee that if it was Misbah in Sarfraz’ place you would say Misbah got lucky because he had Fakhar etc in the lineup.

 

[Syed1]

Can guarantee that if it was Misbah in Sarfraz’ place you would say Misbah got lucky because he had Fakhar etc in the lineup.

Misbah would have not even played Fakhar so that question doesn't even arise. Hardly any youngster debuted during Misbah the savior's tenure. You expect him to debut an unknown batsmen in the middle of a tournament?

 

[SarfiBabarHaris]

As I said, this team will struggle in Asia in the start but will do well outside Asia IA. We missed a world class player against spin like Younis. It will take time for the youngsters to settle. Still we should have won the series but some tactical mistakes in team selection and batting order led us to defeat.

 

[ritzy_123]

Not going with 2 spinners made the difference and the selection of Shan Masood again for the second test was mind boggling. Azhar Ali should've opened.

 

[Major]

According to syeds logic.

We won ct it was because of captain and not because of coach.

We loss the sri lanka series in uae, all blame is on coach and not on captain

 

[Adil_94]

biggest factor was poor team selection. two frontline spinners are a must in UAE. openers n babar flopped n Shafiq n Sarfraz didnt turn up till the final innings when it was too little too late.

 

[Usman Chadda]

Losing Younis and Misbah is a big deal. Younis was world-class in every sense of the word and Misbah was a darn good batsman in Asia. These lallu panjus who used to play around are now suddenly thrust into spotlight and look very meek. For all of Azhar Ali's runs and statistics, he is NOT a leader and can never inspire like YK and Misbah used to. Sarfraz is the only character in this team that has the capability of doing that, but he is a far less skilled batsman compared to MisYou.

In short, we are in for a few dark years in Test cricket.

 

[Ab Fan]

SL deserves credit too.

 

[the Great Khan]

Abroad so you mean Pakistan has no control on how pitches should be in UAE

Than threads like do runs against Srilanka matters ? ? comes up every now & then
Main problem is when you take cricket for granted it hits you hard
I can definitely say If India become overconfident on home series with Srilanka they will also lose test match

I have heard Misbah saying they didnt have much control over the pitches. Perhaps someone on here can dig out that interview. Its not a great excuse but it does factor in.

 

[the Great Khan]

You have been playing in UAE since 2009.Its your home.

From 2012 to 2013 India lost Dravid Tendulkar Laxman and Sehwag.Still they havent been white washed in India.

India have always had better batsmen than us. Its simply a fact. Our kids grow up wanting to smash stumps. Hell half the batters we have probably started off as bowlers lol. Indian kids have a better work ethic when it comes to batting hence why you wont lose at home. We run the gauntlet every time we play. It makes Pakistan cricket what it is but can lead to stupid days like just recently!!

Just watch the Kohli masterclass with Naseer Hussein. Every Pakistani batter should watch that. But alas, they probably go out onto the crease wishing they were a bowler.

 

[Hasan123]

Misbah would have not even played Fakhar so that question doesn't even arise. Hardly any youngster debuted during Misbah the savior's tenure. You expect him to debut an unknown batsmen in the middle of a tournament?

Don't act like playing Fakhar in the CT was some tactical masterclass by Sarfraz. Shehzad was out of form, him and Azhar didn't work as a pairing so we had to change it. Fakhar was the only other opener in the squad so we had to play him. As much as you don't like it inzi is the one who be glen credit for actually selecting Fakhar in the squad in the 1st place.

 

[Hasan123]

Not surprising to see Misbah's fans enjoying Pakistan loss. May be someone remind them that Pakistan was no 6 in rankings before this series and we lost 80% of our last 12 matches. Most of these 'fans' came out of hibernation after our CT win. Bhangra time for them Enjoy!

Anyways as I said, this team will struggle in Asia in the start but will do well outside Asia IA. We missed a world class player against spin like Younis. It will take time for the youngsters to settle. Still we should have won the series but some tactical mistakes in team selection and batting order led us to defeat.

Misbah fans aren't enjoying Pakistan losing. There just giving Sarfraz criticism .

 

[Syed1]

Don't act like playing Fakhar in the CT was some tactical masterclass by Sarfraz. Shehzad was out of form, him and Azhar didn't work as a pairing so we had to change it. Fakhar was the only other opener in the squad so we had to play him. As much as you don't like it inzi is the one who be glen credit for actually selecting Fakhar in the squad in the 1st place.

Do I get credit for doing my day job?


Only in Pakistan a chief selector is applauded for making the right selection


Misbah ul Haq was the captain of the Pakistan side in 2013 CT. He kept playing failure openers like Imran Farhat time and time again and never ever tried any youngsters.

 

[Hasan123]

Do I get credit for doing my day job?


Only in Pakistan a chief selector is applauded for making the right selection


Misbah ul Haq was the captain of the Pakistan side in 2013 CT. He kept playing failure openers like Imran Farhat time and time again and never ever tried any youngsters.

So when he makes poor decisions you will critizce him but when he makes good selections "he's doing his day job". Unbelievable biased. So when Sarfraz captains well, should he get any credit? Fakhar scoring runs, should he get credit? After there just doing there day job.

Also Misbah day job is batting and a captain so he deserves more stick for performing badly with bat and making poor tactical decisions than selection errors.


Unbelievable bias.

 

[Syed1]

So when he makes poor decisions you will critizce him but when he makes good selections "he's doing his day job". Unbelievable biased. So when Sarfraz captains well, should he get any credit? Fakhar scoring runs, should he get credit? After there just doing there day job.

Also Misbah day job is batting and a captain so he deserves more stick for performing badly with bat and making poor tactical decisions than selection errors.


Unbelievable bias.

Sorry Misbah as captain cannot even polish Sarfaraz's shoes. We already see this, but hopefully you lot will realize it too by the time Sarfaraz ends his career. Also pretty sure Saifi won't hold on till he is 45 years of age hogging a youngsters spot.

 

[Hasan123]

Sorry Misbah as captain cannot even polish Sarfaraz's shoes. We already see this, but hopefully you lot will realize it too by the time Sarfaraz ends his career. Also pretty sure Saifi won't hold on till he is 45 years of age hogging a youngsters spot.

I don't care about Misbah being a better captain than Sarfraz, I just want Pakistan to win. Also talking about hogging, since Sarfraz has been captain why hasn't a back up WK rarely been in the squad?

Nice way to avoid my points.

 

[Syed1]

I don't care about Misbah being a better captain than Sarfraz, I just want Pakistan to win. Also talking about hogging, since Sarfraz has been captain why hasn't a back up WK rarely been in the squad?

Nice way to avoid my points.

So as you said captain's job is to captain, why would Sarfaraz select (or not select) a backup keeper? Isn't that Inzi's job.


Congratulations, you just played yourself.

 

[Hasan123]

So as you said captain's job is to captain, why would Sarfaraz select (or not select) a backup keeper? Isn't that Inzi's job.


Congratulations, you just played yourself.

But I thought Sarfraz selected Fakhar for the CT?

 

[cricketjoshila]

India have always had better batsmen than us. Its simply a fact. Our kids grow up wanting to smash stumps. Hell half the batters we have probably started off as bowlers lol. Indian kids have a better work ethic when it comes to batting hence why you wont lose at home. We run the gauntlet every time we play. It makes Pakistan cricket what it is but can lead to stupid days like just recently!!

Just watch the Kohli masterclass with Naseer Hussein. Every Pakistani batter should watch that. But alas, they probably go out onto the crease wishing they were a bowler.

Where is the 150k Pakistani bowler? I swear i enjoy a 150k Pakistani bowler bowling a inswinging yorker as much as i enjoy the Indian batting, well almost.

Correct me if i am wrong but there hasnt been a Pakistani fast bowler who has takn 200 test wickets since Waqar Younis made his debut in 1989.

There may be couple of spinners who did.

I may be wrong because i havent checked it.But if i am correct thats a very worrying sign for a team that depends on bowlers, esp fast bowlers.

 

[the Great Khan]

Where is the 150k Pakistani bowler? I swear i enjoy a 150k Pakistani bowler bowling a inswinging yorker as much as i enjoy the Indian batting, well almost.

Correct me if i am wrong but there hasnt been a Pakistani fast bowler who has takn 200 test wickets since Waqar Younis made his debut in 1989.

There may be couple of spinners who did.

I may be wrong because i havent checked it.But if i am correct thats a very worrying sign for a team that depends on bowlers, esp fast bowlers.

Waqar was a freak of nature..but we are still producing decent bowlers be they spinners or fast bowlers..yes we havent really produced a waqar style bowler in a while we are still producing good test match quality bowlers. We are not producing test match quality batsman however. And that is a more pressing problem.

 

[shaz619]

[MENTION=76058]cricketjoshila[/MENTION] The UAE is an adopted home, it's not the same as playing in Pakistan. People forget that our team has been on the road for such a long time living out of a suitcase and playing before a crowd full of zombies and ghosts in a desert; there's nothing quiet like home support or being around your loved ones.

And with regards to the wicket, contrary to popular belief the PCB do not have sway in their preparation. So no, the UAE is not a home it is an adopted home; to thrive there you need to be exceptionally strong mentally before things such as strategy and team selection so winning in the UAE is indeed no piece of cake even for the alleged home team which has been isolated at the international level which makes the accomplishments of Misbah and Khan even more excellent when you factor everything in along with whatever happened in 2010.

 

[Tusker]

also to India fans, enjoy this while it lasts. But i'd like to see how India would fare if they had to play all of their home tests abroad and then their two best players retire.

We have seen what can happen when some key players retire together. It can take time to rebuild. We will need alot of time.

India lost SRT, RD, VVS, Sehwag, Zak, Harbhajan and then MSD all in a short period of time. Worst was a relatively young player like Gambhir completely losing his form and getting dropped after significant investments.

 

[shaz619]

India lost SRT, RD, VVS, Sehwag, Zak, Harbhajan and then MSD all in a short period of time. Worst was a relatively young player like Gambhir completely losing his form and getting dropped after significant investments.

Gambir is still a decent player, he won me over during his run with KKR

 

[cricketjoshila]

Waqar was a freak of nature..but we are still producing decent bowlers be they spinners or fast bowlers..yes we havent really produced a waqar style bowler in a while we are still producing good test match quality bowlers. We are not producing test match quality batsman however. And that is a more pressing problem.

I dont think you are getting what i am saying.

After Waqar Younis, there is no Pakistani fast bowler who has 200 plus test wickets.So whoever has come he has failed to last long or perform over a long period of time.Thats a worry.

Even among spinners only 2 have gone past the 200 mark.

For a country that depends on bowlers, you are expected to produce great bowlers not decent ones.

Let me tell you one thing truthfully, there are few sights in cricket that match the sight of a pakistani fast bowler racing down the wicket and hurling the ball at 90mph and owning the batsman with reverse swing on barren slow pitches. I miss that sight.

 

[mystical man]

India lost SRT, RD, VVS, Sehwag, Zak, Harbhajan and then MSD all in a short period of time. Worst was a relatively young player like Gambhir completely losing his form and getting dropped after significant investments.

100%Agree and which is why I always say that India is the only team in the world to come out of transition so quickly as opposed to Pakistan, Australia and even Lanka.

 

[Tusker]

Gambir is still a decent player, he won me over during his run with KKR

unlikely he will play Test or even ODI cricket after his last chance

 

[shaz619]

unlikely he will play Test or even ODI cricket after his last chance

What about T20 , is he still consistent. I stopped following KKR after they finally won the title

 

[Tusker]

What about T20 , is he still consistent. I stopped following KKR after they finally won the title

even that is unlikely ... plenty of explosive young batsmen in the line ahead of him. Remember he is almost 36 yrs old now.

 

[the Great Khan]

I dont think you are getting what i am saying.

After Waqar Younis, there is no Pakistani fast bowler who has 200 plus test wickets.So whoever has come he has failed to last long or perform over a long period of time.Thats a worry.

Even among spinners only 2 have gone past the 200 mark.

For a country that depends on bowlers, you are expected to produce great bowlers not decent ones.

Let me tell you one thing truthfully, there are few sights in cricket that match the sight of a pakistani fast bowler racing down the wicket and hurling the ball at 90mph and owning the batsman with reverse swing on barren slow pitches. I miss that sight.

yes you are right but not every country can produce legends all of the time. Before waqar and wasim turned up we had Imran khan and thats about it. In between we had people like Sikhandar bakht etc who were decent but not legendary. Our issues are in the rgass roots where we have probelms. But we are producing bowlers who can get us wins in all forms of the game. Now they may not be legends yet, but they are good enough. The problem we have is that we arent producing batsman who can win us games. We have Azhar and thats about it.

It is easier to produce good batsmen nowadays than good bowlers. But we are failing and we should be pragmatic and look to India to see how to produce good batters. Our youngsters should watch Kohli and etc to understand how you go from being talented but just not quite good enough, to talented and a world beater.

Unfortunatley our two countries are not getting on which is sad as we could help in the sporting arena. Even if we have political differences.

 

[the Great Khan]

India lost SRT, RD, VVS, Sehwag, Zak, Harbhajan and then MSD all in a short period of time. Worst was a relatively young player like Gambhir completely losing his form and getting dropped after significant investments.

thats actually not accurate. MSD is still playing, yuvraj is still around, dravid is coaching, Kohli as emerged to take up the mantle and sharma has been around for about ten years. Its not so simple. We havent managed transition and progression properly at all. We should not have let Younis retire until the end of 2018. End of. W eshould not have let yusuf go. but alas.

 

[Tusker]

thats actually not accurate. MSD is still playing, yuvraj is still around, dravid is coaching, Kohli as emerged to take up the mantle and sharma has been around for about ten years. Its not so simple. We havent managed transition and progression properly at all. We should not have let Younis retire until the end of 2018. End of. W eshould not have let yusuf go. but alas.

This talk is about Tests ... it has been nearly 3 yrs since MSD last played a test match and 5 yrs since Yuvi. Kohli couldnt get into the Test side till 2011 !! And Rohit Sharma still cannot find a permanent spot. Thats how tough it is. All this is possible only though a good system at FC and levels below that.

Not sure what Dravid coaching U19 has anything to do with the topic.

 

[The_Odd_One]

This series was an important lesson for everyone out there.

Over the yeara i read posts on this forum, that oh uae is very easy. Its a home track for pakista. Any captain could dominate here. Your captain doesnt matter only spinners matter.

Pakistan held an undefeated track record in abu dhabi, pakistan also held an undefeated series record in uae. All this under misbah ul haq.

The moment the guy left, we lost 2 down the trott.

What i learned today that misbah made it look easy.

In truth, uae isnt as easy as misbah made it loom like

Did not Pakistan lose a test to WI in the UAE under Misbah?

Pakistan won matches in the UAE mainly due to Younis' batting and Yasir's bowling. Misbah did a commending job but attributing the whole success to him is not right.

 

[cricketjoshila]

yes you are right but not every country can produce legends all of the time. Before waqar and wasim turned up we had Imran khan and thats about it. In between we had people like Sikhandar bakht etc who were decent but not legendary. Our issues are in the rgass roots where we have probelms. But we are producing bowlers who can get us wins in all forms of the game. Now they may not be legends yet, but they are good enough. The problem we have is that we arent producing batsman who can win us games. We have Azhar and thats about it.

For Pakistan's history of Fast Bowling you have to go back to Fazal Mahmood and Khan Mohammad.Thats the template on which Pakistan cricket was built.While Indian cricket was built on Vijay Merchant Vijay Hazare, Vinoo Mankad.

Great players are not only required to win matches, they are also the role models and heroes of the next generation.

Gavaskar was influenced by the Mumbai batting legacy, he inspired Tendulkar, Tendulkar inspired Kohli. Laxman was inspired by Azhar and Azhar was influenced by Vishwanath.

Fazal Mahmood and co. inspired Imran he the 2 Ws and they a Shoaib Akhtar. who is the next inspiration?Amir?Talha?Rao Ifthikar?

Do you believe that somewhere the batting drought in Pakistan may be due to the fact that people followed Shahid Afridi and not a MoYo or YK or Anwar? This is exactly what i am talking about, if decent becomes your hero then mediocrity will follow.

It is easier to produce good batsmen nowadays than good bowlers. But we are failing and we should be pragmatic and look to India to see how to produce good batters. Our youngsters should watch Kohli and etc to understand how you go from being talented but just not quite good enough, to talented and a world beater.

No thats wrong.Good test quality batsman are equally hard to produce. Pakistan must first look at preserving its waning strength and look into why there is no Pakistani who is scaring the batsman out with 150k Thunderbolts. Simultaneously they must look to get the next get of Pakistani batsman to follow good role models in batsmen. IK was very effusive in his praise for Gavaskar, asking his batsman to look how he played and follow it. The Afridisque mentality has to be washed away.

Unfortunatley our two countries are not getting on which is sad as we could help in the sporting arena. Even if we have political differences.

I have said it in past i say it again, let there be a standstill agreement of 50yrs. No issue is going to be solved in next 20-30 years as long as the present 2-3 generations are ruling.They are too consumed by mistrust and either side doesnt trust the other to keep its part of the bargain.50 years of peace will give us a generation which will not be shackled by a bloody past.They wouldnot have seen a partition or a war or a terror attack.Let their wisdom decide the issues. I pray to live to see that day. God willing One day we will.

 

[Usman Chadda]

For Pakistan's history of Fast Bowling you have to go back to Fazal Mahmood and Khan Mohammad.Thats the template on which Pakistan cricket was built.While Indian cricket was built on Vijay Merchant Vijay Hazare, Vinoo Mankad.

Great players are not only required to win matches, they are also the role models and heroes of the next generation.

Gavaskar was influenced by the Mumbai batting legacy, he inspired Tendulkar, Tendulkar inspired Kohli. Laxman was inspired by Azhar and Azhar was influenced by Vishwanath.

Fazal Mahmood and co. inspired Imran he the 2 Ws and they a Shoaib Akhtar. who is the next inspiration?Amir?Talha?Rao Ifthikar?

Do you believe that somewhere the batting drought in Pakistan may be due to the fact that people followed Shahid Afridi and not a MoYo or YK or Anwar? This is exactly what i am talking about, if decent becomes your hero then mediocrity will follow.


No thats wrong.Good test quality batsman are equally hard to produce. Pakistan must first look at preserving its waning strength and look into why there is no Pakistani who is scaring the batsman out with 150k Thunderbolts. Simultaneously they must look to get the next get of Pakistani batsman to follow good role models in batsmen. IK was very effusive in his praise for Gavaskar, asking his batsman to look how he played and follow it. The Afridisque mentality has to be washed away.


I have said it in past i say it again, let there be a standstill agreement of 50yrs. No issue is going to be solved in next 20-30 years as long as the present 2-3 generations are ruling.They are too consumed by mistrust and either side doesnt trust the other to keep its part of the bargain.50 years of peace will give us a generation which will not be shackled by a bloody past.They wouldnot have seen a partition or a war or a terror attack.Let their wisdom decide the issues. I pray to live to see that day. God willing One day we will.

It is very difficult to produce a 90 mph tearaway quick nowadays with the amount of cricket thats being played. Just compare the amount of actual fast bowlers now as compared to the 90s. Also the pitches in Pakistan are a joke and bowlers do not have any incentive to bend their backs anymore. I doubt we will see a tearaway quick from any country unless ICC somehow regulates these T20 leagues and works out proper resting schedules for players.

 

[cricketjoshila]

It is very difficult to produce a 90 mph tearaway quick nowadays with the amount of cricket thats being played. Just compare the amount of actual fast bowlers now as compared to the 90s. Also the pitches in Pakistan are a joke and bowlers do not have any incentive to bend their backs anymore. I doubt we will see a tearaway quick from any country unless ICC somehow regulates these T20 leagues and works out proper resting schedules for players.

Australia SA WI all have 90mph plus bowlers.Even India does. So this reason of workload doesnt quite work.

The pitches and the ball ofcourse are a factor. Can you tell me what kind of pitches do you get in Domestics in Pakistan?

Green?Flat?Bouncy? or UAE like?

 

[Ellipsism]

Australia SA WI all have 90mph plus bowlers.Even India does. So this reason of workload doesnt quite work.

The pitches and the ball ofcourse are a factor. Can you tell me what kind of pitches do you get in Domestics in Pakistan?

Green?Flat?Bouncy? or UAE like?

Just look at a couple of scorecards from some recently completed QeA matches, you'll work it out. A recent game finished in two days!

 

[cricketjoshila]

Just look at a couple of scorecards from some recently completed QeA matches, you'll work it out. A recent game finished in two days!

And then how is it expected that these bowlers will do well in UAE?What is the reason for such rubbish pitches?

 

[Abdullah719]

Australia SA WI all have 90mph plus bowlers.Even India does. So this reason of workload doesnt quite work.

The pitches and the ball ofcourse are a factor. Can you tell me what kind of pitches do you get in Domestics in Pakistan?

Green?Flat?Bouncy? or UAE like?

Some of the totals from Round 3 (the most recent round) of the Quaid-e-Azam Trophy which concluded today:

110 all out
167 all out
173 all out
192 all out
194 all out
98 all out
71 all out
143 all out
88 all out
110 all out
101 all out
97 all out
81 all out
177 all out
116 all out

These are all in one round.... I think you get the picture.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Some of the totals from Round 3 (the most recent round) of the Quaid-e-Azam Trophy which concluded today:

110 all out
167 all out
173 all out
192 all out
194 all out
98 all out
71 all out
143 all out
88 all out
110 all out
101 all out
97 all out
81 all out
177 all out
116 all out

These are all in one round.... I think you get the picture.

Green Mambas i guess?or mmay be dust bowls.Either way, under prepared wickets.

So how are these bowlers going to survive in UAE?

And let me tell you, such under prepared wickets dont help develop technique either.

This is faceplam stuff.

 

[Abdullah719]

Green Mambas i guess?or mmay be dust bowls.Either way, under prepared wickets.

So how are these bowlers going to survive in UAE?

And let me tell you, such under prepared wickets dont help develop technique either.

This is faceplam stuff.

It's the pacers who are mostly running riot on these pitches. Lots of lateral movement and lack of true bounce is the overriding theme with a lot of the pitches.

It doesn't make the bowlers work hard for their wickets. It doesn't allow batsmen to get used to building and playing long innings. Basically, the pitches are rubbish.

In addition to that, we have to cram is all sorts of stuff into the domestic calendar so this year the group stage (7 matches for each side) is stuffed in between 26 Sep and 5 Nov.... you can calculate the off-days, probably on your fingers.... Now imagine the wear and tear on such pitches. The above scores are in Round 3 so I'm not sure what to expect by Round 7...

Did I mention that there are 16 teams in the Quaid-e-Azam Trophy which means that there are some awfully one-sided matches?

There's a whole host of other issues covered by MMHS here.

 

[Usman Chadda]

Australia SA WI all have 90mph plus bowlers.Even India does. So this reason of workload doesnt quite work.

The pitches and the ball ofcourse are a factor. Can you tell me what kind of pitches do you get in Domestics in Pakistan?

Green?Flat?Bouncy? or UAE like?

Pakistan also has a certain Wahab Riaz who is one of the fastest in the world right now. But no team has a tearaway quick. Average speeds hover around 85-86 mph with the odd effort ball at 90 mph. The likes of Waqar, Shoaib, Lee, Bond etc were averaging 90 mph when in rhythm. Workload has made a huge difference in world cricket. The last fierce fast bowler in recent times was Mitch Johnson, who couldn't sustain those ferocious spells over a long period of time due to the amount of cricket the poor lad's body had to endure.

Green pitches with 20+ wickets falling in a day at times. Not much incentive is there for a bowler to really push himself to the limit.

 

[the Great Khan]

For Pakistan's history of Fast Bowling you have to go back to Fazal Mahmood and Khan Mohammad.Thats the template on which Pakistan cricket was built.While Indian cricket was built on Vijay Merchant Vijay Hazare, Vinoo Mankad.

Great players are not only required to win matches, they are also the role models and heroes of the next generation.

Gavaskar was influenced by the Mumbai batting legacy, he inspired Tendulkar, Tendulkar inspired Kohli. Laxman was inspired by Azhar and Azhar was influenced by Vishwanath.

Fazal Mahmood and co. inspired Imran he the 2 Ws and they a Shoaib Akhtar. who is the next inspiration?Amir?Talha?Rao Ifthikar?

Do you believe that somewhere the batting drought in Pakistan may be due to the fact that people followed Shahid Afridi and not a MoYo or YK or Anwar? This is exactly what i am talking about, if decent becomes your hero then mediocrity will follow.


No thats wrong.Good test quality batsman are equally hard to produce. Pakistan must first look at preserving its waning strength and look into why there is no Pakistani who is scaring the batsman out with 150k Thunderbolts. Simultaneously they must look to get the next get of Pakistani batsman to follow good role models in batsmen. IK was very effusive in his praise for Gavaskar, asking his batsman to look how he played and follow it. The Afridisque mentality has to be washed away.


I have said it in past i say it again, let there be a standstill agreement of 50yrs. No issue is going to be solved in next 20-30 years as long as the present 2-3 generations are ruling.They are too consumed by mistrust and either side doesnt trust the other to keep its part of the bargain.50 years of peace will give us a generation which will not be shackled by a bloody past.They wouldnot have seen a partition or a war or a terror attack.Let their wisdom decide the issues. I pray to live to see that day. God willing One day we will.

Pretty much agree with most of your post. I think the afridi factor cannot be ignore. I mean we had Inzi,yusuf,younis, misbah, anwar as role models but the media hyped afridi sahib ...its going to take some doing to excercise his ghost but I think Misbah and younis have done alot to do so. Still plenty of work to do. On your fast bowler thing, we have had alot of young pacers in first class cricket and young ages cricket but when they get to department level cricket they get destroyed be nepotism, corruption and other stupidity.

This is where we are hoping the private sector (PSL) can help and help us find the next fazal. In a country like pakistan talent is everywhere but harnessing it is mediocre.

Moving onto your 50 year proposal , yes totally agree. We should sign a non aggression pact and see where it leads. Everyone needs to calm down and think rationally otherwise the whole region is heading for a disaster. The non aggression pact will allow us to reduce our militaries and spend more on education and health care. we'll still have alrge armies but I think their focus will shift to peacekeeping rather than peace fighting.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Pretty much agree with most of your post. I think the afridi factor cannot be ignore. I mean we had Inzi,yusuf,younis, misbah, anwar as role models but the media hyped afridi sahib ...its going to take some doing to excercise his ghost but I think Misbah and younis have done alot to do so. Still plenty of work to do. On your fast bowler thing, we have had alot of young pacers in first class cricket and young ages cricket but when they get to department level cricket they get destroyed be nepotism, corruption and other stupidity.

This is where we are hoping the private sector (PSL) can help and help us find the next fazal. In a country like pakistan talent is everywhere but harnessing it is mediocre.

Moving onto your 50 year proposal , yes totally agree. We should sign a non aggression pact and see where it leads. Everyone needs to calm down and think rationally otherwise the whole region is heading for a disaster. The non aggression pact will allow us to reduce our militaries and spend more on education and health care. we'll still have alrge armies but I think their focus will shift to peacekeeping rather than peace fighting.

You see TGK, we two finally agree on something in 6 years. No reason why our countries cant. We still have hope.

 

[the Great Khan]

You see TGK, we two finally agree on something in 6 years. No reason why our countries cant. We still have hope.

hahah lol..thats because we kept talking lol..maybe our politicians can learn something from PP..

 

[cricketjoshila]

hahah lol..thats because we kept talking lol..maybe our politicians can learn something from PP..

The wisdom is not fighting over something that we know cannot be solved in the medium term.Rather wisdom is keeping it aside and agreeing on other issues.

But then if we had so much brains we wont be where we are today.