Let's cut India some slack

[happydavy]

Whosoever has seen my posts, would know that i am one of the harshest critics of this Indian team. Even prior to the England tour, i said it multiple times that all the hype around India seems funny because there was nothing in numbers to suggest that India has become a better travelling team. I dislike most Indian test players including Pujara, Ashwin and Rahane, and feel all of them are massively overrated.

Having said all of that, i think we need to cut India some slack because Kohli's bad luck with toss, meant India has no chance of winning the series.

Since beginning of 2014, 206 test matches have been played of which visiting teams have won 63, which actually is a pretty decent ratio of 30%.

Of these 63 away victories -
45 times are while defending targets in 4th innings
18 times while chasing 4th inning targets

Only 18 times have visiting teams successfully chased 4th inning target in these 206 matches.

Out of these 18 times, 7 victories are against WI/SL and another 3 against Ireland/Bdesh/Zim. Big teams have lost like 8 times while defending 4th inning scores.

Infact, India is lucky to win the third test because Joe Root won the toss and elected to ball first. There was absolutely no need to do that. Home teams just don't lose if they bat first - Something happens, some lower batsmen scores a fifty, a century partnership comes up from nowhere but the home teams don't perform poorly in 3rd or 4th inning.

 

[the_outsider]

Rahane has underperformed on this tour. He has been underperforming for the last 18 months.

But Rahane and especially Pujara have been criticised too much for this tour.

Both Rahane and Pujara have outscored all but 2 English batsmen so far - Butler and Curran.

Both Curran and Butler bat at 7 or below. Effectively Kohli, Pujara and Rahane have outscored all of England's top 6 batsmen.

The difference in the two teams have actually been the lower order batting. England's #6 to #11 have scored 200 more runs than the Indian counterparts. From those positions, Englishmen have scored 2 centuries and 3 half-centuries while India has managed only 1 half-century.

India has paid the price of playing 5 batsmen throughout this tour while England always went with 6 even at home.

I think it's time for the Indian think tank to realise that they are not a team that can tour overseas with just 5 batsmen. Go back to the 6 batsmen + wk + 4 bowlers line-up and we might see better results.

As it is Hardik is hardly being used as the 5th bowler. Slot in a proper batsman in his place and ask the bowlers to deal with the workload. We have enough bench strength in the bowling department anyway so might as well use that to our advantage.

 

[Canford Cliffs]

Toss screwed us in SA and now here in Eng. But we will win the series in Downunder this time...mark my words.

 

[the_outsider]

Toss screwed us in SA and now here in Eng. But we will win the series in Downunder this time...mark my words.

If Dhoni was our lucky captain, Kohli seems to be our unlucky captain.

I've lost count of how many tosses he has lost.

So far in 2018 Kohli has lost 6 out 7 tosses in tests.

In 2016 England won 4 out of 5 tosses in India and now they have already won 4 out of 4 tosses in this series.

I hope the law of averages rectifies itself come the Australian and NZ tours.

 

[the_outsider]

I just checked.

Kohli has called wrong 9 times in his last 10 tests.

 

[happydavy]

Toss screwed us in SA and now here in Eng. But we will win the series in Downunder this time...mark my words.

And mark my words that we ll loose down under as well! Winning an overseas series is what teams like SA and Australia used to do and they were far more driven and far more resilient than India. Ridicule them all you want, but SA had 2 absolute great batsmen in Graeme Smith and Jacque Kallis who used to score runs in all conditions and more importantly in all situations. They are the ones who gave them series victories or draws in Pakistan/India/England/Australia. They never got the hype like SRT/Lara/Dravid did but were absolute best of their generation. Pujara/Rahane/Rahul/Dhawan are jokes in their comparison.

 

[Adijazz1706]

[MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] this thread is made for you mate, look how important lower order bats have proved to be

 

[Junaids]

[MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] this thread is made for you mate, look how important lower order bats have proved to be

Thanks!

And let’s be frank: there are two reasons why Pakistan has outperformed India in England this summer.

The first is respecting the game enough to arrive early and prepare.

The second is that two of the five bowlers - Shadab Khan and Faheem Ashraf - produced a lot of runs.

 

[gazza619]

Thanks!

And let’s be frank: there are two reasons why Pakistan has outperformed India in England this summer.

The first is respecting the game enough to arrive early and prepare.

The second is that two of the five bowlers - Shadab Khan and Faheem Ashraf - produced a lot of runs.

Well said, we do seem to respect test cricket a lot more..

 

[Aman]

This is the weakest England have been in years, they should feel disappointed they couldn't beat them.

 

[gazza619]

The winning the toss is a bit overrated. England wickets are supporting from day 1 to day 5 and i dont buy this theory.

 

[Xoib]

the tour of Sa and England have confirmed India number 1 staus in the world they are competing better then any side away from Home.

However for India it is a big opportunity missed this is the weakest era of test cricket since I started following in 1989. Collectivley have never seen Eng,Aus and SAF having such mediocre sides all at the same time. This will probably never happen again, the good news for India due to their financial power they will keep in investing heavily in their cricket infrastructure and will continue to get well polished talent so there always be many opportunities in the future to dominate cricket.

 

[Xoib]

and I don't buy batting first is a huge advantage outside sub cont dust bowls for eg 3 out of Pakistan last 4 test wins in England came while chasing so India which is a better side then Pakistan should not use this as an excuse.

 

[the_outsider]

The winning the toss is a bit overrated. England wickets are supporting from day 1 to day 5 and i dont buy this theory.

But the numbers don't lie. Visiting teams win only 8% games batting 2nd. That number jumps to 20% when batting 1st.

That's a jump of 2.5 times which is a huge figure. That effectively means that visiting teams are 2.5 times more likely to win if they bat first.

 

[the Great Khan]

Lets cut India some slack..err no, I dont think so.

If you claim your the worlds best team, the toss shouldn't matter. How many times did they have England on the ropes and yet they still failed. You cant rely on one man to save you in test matches. This isn't one day cricket where you can hit through the line or in the air knowing full well there aren't any fielders there.

Yes the Indian bowling did well but the england batting was there for the taking so that's not something to shout about. But what happened to the vaunted best batting lineup in the world? once again as e have seen over the years, the hype just doesn't match up to the reality of the situation. The mental fragility of this team was open for all to see.

And coming onto cuptaan fantastic Kohli sahib. yes we know your english is great and your interviews are good but talk is cheap. I mean you can make fun of Pakistnai cricketers and their angreezi and you can come out with your fancy tattoos and angreezy..but at the end of the day your rubbish as a test captain. Your best bowler Shami hardly got a bowl yesterday, ashwin was clearly shot so why bring him early with the new ball? This isnt Mumbai meray bhai..The batting was atrocious and the way Kohli got out (twice) to Moeen was a disgrace. There is a close in fielder there so use your feet and get to the pitch of the ball sirjee..I mean your supposed to have nimble feet and superior footwork but what happened?

and as for the rest, well if this was a pakistani side I would have thrown some shoes at them. Pandya, please dont make me laugh, Kucha khilari. Rahane, lol..mentally weak., the openers think this is the IPL an we can trut out like peacocks..lol hilarious..the lower order and the keeper bastman think this is t20 cricket...

chulo koi baat nahin hay, theyll win down under becasue you know its their birth right isnt it? a few more fancy interviews from Kohli sahib and the hype will begin again..until the first day when the aussie slip catchers will be enjoying themselves..

 

[Canford Cliffs]

Thanks!

And let’s be frank: there are two reasons why Pakistan has outperformed India in England this summer.

The first is respecting the game enough to arrive early and prepare.

The second is that two of the five bowlers - Shadab Khan and Faheem Ashraf - produced a lot of runs.

Below are Faheem's score in Eng -
37, 3, 0.

That is lots of runs for you??

 

[happydavy]

And just to be clear, I don't mean at all that India would have won the series had they batted first, infact I never expected them to win more than 1 test match. What I am implying is that India's chances of winning decreased further when they lost the toss.

Beginning of the series bookmakers were giving India 28% chance of winning, that probably fell to 15% with India losing tosses. Leave out the overly optimistic fans and cheerleader commentators, people who put their money where their mouth is never thought India will win the series. Bookmakers don't rely on emotions but hard data. Even when England was 4 down for 90 in 2nd inning, it was still the favorite to win the match because the data suggested that.

 

[Khan12]

Below are Faheem's score in Eng -
37, 3, 0.

That is lots of runs for you??

The 37 runs came at a vital time. Plus shadab scored 50 as well which something I am sure India will want from pant and pandya at cruical time.

 

[RainMan_]

We will show sympathy towards India if most of its irrational fans stop beating their chest about the pointless icc ranking and accept the reality that they r an average test team who r no 1 only because of playing countless no of home games on doctored pitches.


Otherwise, I have to say that India have played well within their limited abilities against a detiorated 5th ranked team. Congratulations.

 

[Khan12]

Didn't some Indian fans think they could dominate like the Australia of 2000s?

 

[InziRules]

I'm sorry, but this England team is in tatters. 4 or 5 of their top 6 will be changed soon enough, that's how bad their batting is

 

[Aman]

Aus, Pakistan and NZ could beat this England team, they wont get the chance to because a couple of those passengers are close to being dropped.

 

[Abdullah]

India have screwed up. They had a better spinner, quicker bowlers, better top order batters, an ATG ( soon to be if not already), better slip catchers, good conditions to bat in for the most part.
England just had 2 very good quicks and a bunch of all-rounders who aren't that much better than indias. ( Not as much as they showed)
Huge huge opportunity missed.

 

[Abdullah]

England have so many issues it ain't even funny.

 

[the_outsider]

We will show sympathy towards India if most of its irrational fans stop beating their chest about the pointless icc ranking and accept the reality that they r an average test team who r no 1 only because of playing countless no of home games on doctored pitches.


Otherwise, I have to say that India have played well within their limited abilities against a detiorated 5th ranked team. Congratulations.

You keep saying that India's ranking is pointless and I have repeatedly asked you to prove how any other team is currently better and you have repeatedly fled the scene.

Every team plays at home. They all have chances to win every game at home but they don't.

I have said this a hundred times but it gets conveniently ignored - India has had the best home record for any team in the last 28 years. They have lost just 2 home series in the last 28 years. 28 years! They are next to impossible to beat at home!

The ranking system is the same for each and every team. Every team has similar ratio of home and away matches. If some other team were to be ranked number 1, they would be.

It is funny that the same people who call ICC's ranking "pointless" when it comes to India's ranking are the same who fiercely defend the same ranking system when it comes to Pakistan's #1 ranking in T20Is.

 

[the_outsider]

I'm sorry, but this England team is in tatters. 4 or 5 of their top 6 will be changed soon enough, that's how bad their batting is

England's batting did a lot better against Pak than it did against India. Cook scored more runs in 3 innings against Pak than he has in 7 innings against India.

Maybe give some credit to Indian bolwers? It's not going to kill you, I promise.

 

[InziRules]

England's batting did a lot better against Pak than it did against India. Cook scored more runs in 3 innings against Pak than he has in 7 innings against India.

Maybe give some credit to Indian bolwers? It's not going to kill you, I promise.

They were outstanding. Doesn't mean my point isn't valid. Unless you think this top order is good enough?

 

[the_outsider]

They were outstanding. Doesn't mean my point isn't valid. Unless you think this top order is good enough?

Point is valid in the sense that this is a weaker England top order than it was 4 years ago.

But Indian bowlers made them look worse than they are.

And let's not forget that this is also the best lower order England has had in its test history. You have to get all 10 wickets not just the top 5.

 

[the_outsider]

I'm sorry, but this England team is in tatters. 4 or 5 of their top 6 will be changed soon enough, that's how bad their batting is

5 out of top 6?

So you think Bairstow and Stokes will soon be out of the team?

 

[Pakhs]

The FACT is this is not a great England side at all. Root doesnt know where he should bat, cook is finished. Stokes had trial going on, butler just came back into the side. Their best spinning all rounder (moen ali was dropped) just played the 4th test. In short England have been in shambles and still won the series. If I was Indian fan I would be embarrassed and consider this as the worst result away for a long time. Yes they have lost before away but atleast at that time they lost to decent sides.

In short huge chance missed. They basically lost to lower order which is because Indian bowlers were not effective enough once the bowl got old.

 

[Pakhs]

5 out of top 6?

So you think Bairstow and Stokes will soon be out of the team?

Stokes is number 6 and bairstow is number 7 for me. Butler may bat 5 but they will be well advised to find proper batters in the top 6 and not WKs and All rounders.

 

[the_outsider]

The FACT is this is not a great England side at all. Root doesnt know where he should bat, cook is finished. Stokes had trial going on, butler just came back into the side. Their best spinning all rounder (moen ali was dropped) just played the 4th test. In short England have been in shambles and still won the series. If I was Indian fan I would be embarrassed and consider this as the worst result away for a long time. Yes they have lost before away but atleast at that time they lost to decent sides.

In short huge chance missed. They basically lost to lower order which is because Indian bowlers were not effective enough once the bowl got old.

Those are not reasons.

If those are reasons then India had a list of them too:

1. India's best bowler for the conditions has missed all 5 tests.
2. Bumrah, the 2nd best bowler missed 2.
3. India's 2 best overseas batsmen - Vijay and Rahane have been out of form for a year.
4. India is missing their 1st choice wk throughout the tour and had to debut a 20 year old on a tough away tour.
5. India's only spinner has played 50% of the matches with an injury.

Reasons can be found for both teams. If you're going to make an excuse for England you have to consider the same for India too.

You cannot pick and choose.

 

[the_outsider]

Stokes is number 6 and bairstow is number 7 for me. Butler may bat 5 but they will be well advised to find proper batters in the top 6 and not WKs and All rounders.

Doesn't matter who is who according to you. Stokes and Bairstow have been in the top 6 for the last 2 years in this side.

But [MENTION=146217]InziRules[/MENTION] thinks they both will soon be booted from the team.

 

[Pakhs]

Those are not reasons.

If those are reasons then India had a list of them too:

1. India's best bowler for the conditions has missed all 5 tests.
2. Bumrah, the 2nd best bowler missed 2.
3. India's 2 best overseas batsmen - Vijay and Rahane have been out of form for a year.
4. India is missing their 1st choice wk throughout the tour and had to debut a 20 year old on a tough away tour.
5. India's only spinner has played 50% of the matches with an injury.

Reasons can be found for both teams. If you're going to make an excuse for England you have to consider the same for India too.

You cannot pick and choose.

Those are big reasons! and if India has problems of their own then thats fair enough. I never considered this India team to be good enough to win away from home anyway.

I was just giving you reasons why this is not a great England side and in return you are giving me reasons why this is not a great Indian side either.

 

[Pakhs]

Doesn't matter who is who according to you. Stokes and Bairstow have been in the top 6 for the last 2 years in this side.

But [MENTION=146217]InziRules[/MENTION] thinks they both will soon be booted from the team.

Yes they have been and thats why they been losing.

 

[the_outsider]

I was just giving you reasons why this is not a great England side and in return you are giving me reasons why this is not a great Indian side either.

My point is those weaknesses of England shouldn't factor in when India also had so many hurdles themselves.

How do you think England would have faired if Anderson wasn't playing?

England won the series because they played better. That's it.

Those other factors you mention are totally meaningless and to try and claim that "India couldn't beat a weak English team" is grossly disingenuous.

PS: Injuries don't make a good side any less good. Nothing the team can do if their best players are injured and can't be fielded.

 

[Pakhs]

My point is those weaknesses of England shouldn't factor in when India also had so many hurdles themselves.

How do you think England would have faired if Anderson wasn't playing?

England won the series because they played better. That's it.

Those other factors you mention are totally meaningless and to try and claim that "India couldn't beat a weak English team" is grossly disingenuous.

No Its definitely a week England side compare to the recent past! and if you cant see that you don't know much about cricket and just a fan. As I said you can come back to me and say well actually its not great Indian side either but definitely cant say this was the strongest England side we have seen in recent past.

 

[InziFans]

You can give how many ever excuses you want, but as the No.1 side, India should be steamrolling this weak and unreliable England side. Remember, Pakistan drew against them. If the No.7-ranked side can do it, so should India. India rose to No.1 on the back of its dominant home record and playing weak nations. If you want others to respect India's ranking, India has to win in places such as England. If India were an ordinary team, you can expect to cut them some slack. This is the top-ranked team though. Standards and expectations are thus higher for India than any other team.

 

[kuskash]

You can give how many ever excuses you want, but as the No.1 side, India should be steamrolling this weak and unreliable England side. Remember, Pakistan drew against them. If the No.7-ranked side can do it, so should India. India rose to No.1 on the back of its dominant home record and playing weak nations. If you want others to respect India's ranking, India has to win in places such as England. If India were an ordinary team, you can expect to cut them some slack. This is the top-ranked team though. Standards and expectations are thus higher for India than any other team.

Agreed fully.

 

[the_outsider]

No Its definitely a week England side compare to the recent past! and if you cant see that you don't know much about cricket and just a fan. As I said you can come back to me and say well actually its not great Indian side either but definitely cant say this was the strongest England side we have seen in recent past.

I never said this is a strong England side. I have already mentioned in this thread that England was a stronger team on last tour.

 

[Hasan123]

India should have won the series as they are the better team. They deserve the critiscm.

 

[Savak]

Rahane has underperformed on this tour. He has been underperforming for the last 18 months.

But Rahane and especially Pujara have been criticised too much for this tour.

Both Rahane and Pujara have outscored all but 2 English batsmen so far - Butler and Curran.

Both Curran and Butler bat at 7 or below. Effectively Kohli, Pujara and Rahane have outscored all of England's top 6 batsmen.

The difference in the two teams have actually been the lower order batting. England's #6 to #11 have scored 200 more runs than the Indian counterparts. From those positions, Englishmen have scored 2 centuries and 3 half-centuries while India has managed only 1 half-century.

India has paid the price of playing 5 batsmen throughout this tour while England always went with 6 even at home.

I think it's time for the Indian think tank to realise that they are not a team that can tour overseas with just 5 batsmen. Go back to the 6 batsmen + wk + 4 bowlers line-up and we might see better results.

As it is Hardik is hardly being used as the 5th bowler. Slot in a proper batsman in his place and ask the bowlers to deal with the workload. We have enough bench strength in the bowling department anyway so might as well use that to our advantage.

Lol, the difference has been that the English all rounders were highly efficient with both ball and ball in comparison to their Indian counter parts. Playing an extra batsman would not have helped India, would in fact have increased the workload on the bowlers and there is every chance that India's bowling attack would not have been that effective in the abscence of a 5th bowler.

No win situation. Find better and more consistent all rounders

 

[the_outsider]

Lol, the difference has been that the English all rounders were highly efficient with both ball and ball in comparison to their Indian counter parts. Playing an extra batsman would not have helped India, would in fact have increased the workload on the bowlers and there is every chance that India's bowling attack would not have been that effective in the abscence of a 5th bowler.

No win situation. Find better and more consistent all rounders

Pandya has bowled a grand total of 64 overs in this series so far. That's about 9 over per innings. Are you telling me the other 4 bowlers couldn't have shared that burden bowled 2 more overs each?

A 6th batsman would have been far more useful, especially considering that the problems for India have primarily been with batting and not their bowling.

 

[Monsee]

But the numbers don't lie. Visiting teams win only 8% games batting 2nd. That number jumps to 20% when batting 1st.

That's a jump of 2.5 times which is a huge figure. That effectively means that visiting teams are 2.5 times more likely to win if they bat first.

Well, you guys thump your chests about being number 1 team all the time...how come you forget that point now, a top team or number 1 team has to go against any team and all elements and just win somehow!

All these are excuses at best, either your team lost badly despite being number 1 or they did not really deserve to be number 1 because they always sucked when being out of Asia, minus WI!

 

[shaz619]

Why you want to cut them some slack when they performed like Bangladesh ? and have failed to end their losing streak in England despite being the no.1 team in the world and among the alleged greatest no.1 teams in history with the one of greatest indian bat of all time, greatest indian pacer of all time and greatest indian off spinner of all time. I can explain why they failed, they lack heart, toughness and are not patriotic enough; this is why they are more interested in complaining about AC in the hotel then showing how proud they are to be Indian on the cricket pitch.

 

[Savak]

Pandya has bowled a grand total of 64 overs in this series so far. That's about 9 over per innings. Are you telling me the other 4 bowlers couldn't have shared that burden bowled 2 more overs each?

A 6th batsman would have been far more useful, especially considering that the problems for India have primarily been with batting and not their bowling.

Like i said these were bowling friendly conditions and England did not bat to their potential this series which result in Pandya not having to put in a lot of overs. In the event England batted well and score 500 plus runs frequently, Pandya would have needed to put in a lot more overs to help relieve the burden on the other bowlers. Pakistan learn't the hard way in 2016 i.e. their strategy of playing 4 bowlers outside the UAE and Subcontinent was not going to work.

I don't think the 6th batsman could have done much given the technical struggles the Indian batsmen have always shown against the swinging dukes ball.

 

[ManFan]

No excuses.

Pakistan had no excuse for losing in Oceania 5-0 in 2016-2017 and losing the Second Test earlier this year against England.

The fact is the better team wins a Test match series.

 

[Mamoon]

Over the last 7 Tests in South Africa and England, India have proved why they deserve the number one ranking. Yes they have lost 5 matches, but they have been very competitive and were outclassed in only one Test.

No team in the world today can challenge India in India, and no team can demolish India at home to the same extent as India demolishes other teams in India. There are areas where they need to improve, but they are still the best all-round Test side around. No team has a stronger claim at the number one ranking.

 

[JaDed]

No thanks, deserve every bit of it just like after CT.

 

[the_outsider]

No excuses.

Pakistan had no excuse for losing in Oceania 5-0 in 2016-2017 and losing the Second Test earlier this year against England.

The fact is the better team wins a Test match series.

Nobody is denying the last part. England has won the series because they have been the better team in this series. That's totally true.

But the manner of defeat and the margin of victories count.

It is pointless to boil down 4-5 days of cricket down to a simple W or L binary.

 

[ManFan]

Nobody is denying the last part. England has won the series because they have been the better team in this series. That's totally true.

But the manner of defeat and the margin of victories count.

It is pointless to boil down 4-5 days of cricket down to a simple W or L binary.

The scorecard dictates the results of the continuous effort of the five days work.

Excuses and what if’s remain futile and puerile.

 

[the_outsider]

The scorecard dictates the results of the continuous effort of the five days work.

Excuses and what if’s remain futile and puerile.

If you can't make a distinction between this Eng-India test series and Pakistan's tour of Australia in 2016 where 1 match was lost my an innings and another by 200+ runs, then you are wasting your time on cricket. Try another hobby.

 

[ManFan]

If you can't make a distinction between this Eng-India test series and Pakistan's tour of Australia in 2016 where 1 match was lost my an innings and another by 200+ runs, then you are wasting your time on cricket. Try another hobby.

Ah, ad hominem.

It never fails.

 

[RainMan_]

Over the last 7 Tests in South Africa and England, India have proved why they deserve the number one ranking. Yes they have lost 5 matches, but they have been very competitive and were outclassed in only one Test.

No team in the world today can challenge India in India, and no team can demolish India at home to the same extent as India demolishes other teams in India. There are areas where they need to improve, but they are still the best all-round Test side around. No team has a stronger claim at the number one ranking.

I disagree with ur assessment. Australia in India in 16/17 BG series were much more competitive than India were in Australia in 14/15 BG series.

India couldn't demolish Australia the last time they toured India. Australia thrashed India in the first test, were quite competitive in the second test and drew the third one. India only manged to thrash them in the last test. If u compare it with India's performance in Australia u'll see that they were throughly outclassed by Australia in Australia. Out of 8 innings Indian bowlers managed to dismiss Austria only twice and that too happened when Australia's score was well above 500, such was the level of their mediocrity.

A team that hasn't manged to chase anything above 100 in last 15 years outside Asia shouldn't be given that much of respect. They have all sorts of of problems and their batting is on minnow level outside Asia.

 

[RainMan_]

India won the second test because England stupidly dropped the player of the series for some mysterious reason. Then add their lackluster sleep catching with it. If they manged to to held onto their catches, whitewash was inevitable for India.

Nothing can change the fact that India just got destroyed by a detiorated 5th ranked team. I m sure I haven't seen such a mediocre no 1 team in recent past.

 

[Pete Rose]

Honestly, India should be disappointed to losing to this England team. Their bowling has been spectacular, but barring Kohli and Pandya no one has performed consistently, especially the batting.

 

[Darkrai]

Indian media was saying 5-0 to India because Eng were playing badly and drew with Pakistan at home.

 

[the_outsider]

Ah, ad hominem.

It never fails.

Clearly you're in denial so I'll stop wasting my time.

 

[mkyawar]

Over the last 7 Tests in South Africa and England, India have proved why they deserve the number one ranking. Yes they have lost 5 matches, but they have been very competitive and were outclassed in only one Test.

No team in the world today can challenge India in India, and no team can demolish India at home to the same extent as India demolishes other teams in India. There are areas where they need to improve, but they are still the best all-round Test side around. No team has a stronger claim at the number one ranking.

Australia gave India a tough time when they toured here. Lost 2-1 by a whisker. On the other hand India lost 2-0 before 2015 world cup. On the other hand, touring teams play India at full strength on dustbowls. This was a weak SA batting lineup and this was the weakest England batting line up, still they lost the test. India should drown in shame if they lost to Aus in all t20s, odis and test. No Warner and Smith and potentially their quicks may not be fully fit for all matches especially since they are quicker than England bowlers.

 

[MP2011]

Time for us to bin 5+5+1 combination. Its pointless especially in overseas tests. Our batting isn't as good as it was in the days of Fab-4. Now we've got just Fab-1. Makes sense for us to play 6 proper bats at all times.

 

[MP2011]

On the other hand, touring teams play India at full strength on dustbowls. This was a weak SA batting lineup and this was the weakest England batting line up, still they lost the test.

And India were at its full strength?

 

[MP2011]

However I agree with the general sentiment that we missed a golden chance to finally win series in Eng & SA.

Team selection has throughout been poor. Playing Rohit in 2/3 tests in SA was as stupid as not playing Pujara in the first test of this series.

 

[Xoib]

Over the last 7 Tests in South Africa and England, India have proved why they deserve the number one ranking. Yes they have lost 5 matches, but they have been very competitive and were outclassed in only one Test.

No team in the world today can challenge India in India, and no team can demolish India at home to the same extent as India demolishes other teams in India. There are areas where they need to improve, but they are still the best all-round Test side around. No team has a stronger claim at the number one ranking.

yes you are right but it is also a huge opportunity lost for India. SA and ENgland are both at their weakest in a long time and were there for the taking but India bottled it. Instead back patting India they should be given chamaat for losing to two average outfits most past # 1 sides would have breezed through these series.

 

[MP2011]

Honestly, India should be disappointed to losing to this England team. Their bowling has been spectacular, but barring Kohli and Pandya no one has performed consistently, especially the batting.

Agree except for the bold part.

Pandya has been good in 1/4 tests of this series which is simply not good enough at this level. England all rounders have shown how important is it for them to shine especially when the specialist bats are so out of form. In fact, if not for Eng all rounders, the score of this series might've been reversed.

Perhaps time has come to show Pandya the door and play a proper bat in his place. His batting has regressed really badly over last few months, in all formats of the game. Too much hype has been centered around him, should be shown that its performance which is the only criteria for selection. Though I doubt whether Kohli & Shastri have gits to drop him from any format.

 

[mkyawar]

And India were at its full strength?

India lost this test series with their batting. Who were they missing in batting ? The bowlers did a magnificent job

 

[MP2011]

India lost this test series with their batting. Who were they missing in batting ? The bowlers did a magnificent job

I agree India lost both these test series due to their batting. However its not easy for visiting teams to bat well all the times in overseas conditions, true for almost all teams of this generation and India is no exception to that.

Also, Rahane in 2/3 tests in SA and Pujara in first test of this series were missing. Whether they were missing due to selection issues is immaterial. Point is, they were missing from final XI.

 

[the_outsider]

Australia gave India a tough time when they toured here. Lost 2-1 by a whisker. On the other hand India lost 2-0 before 2015 world cup. On the other hand, touring teams play India at full strength on dustbowls. This was a weak SA batting lineup and this was the weakest England batting line up, still they lost the test. India should drown in shame if they lost to Aus in all t20s, odis and test. No Warner and Smith and potentially their quicks may not be fully fit for all matches especially since they are quicker than England bowlers.

SA wasn't a weak batting lineup at all. They were playing their first choice XI.

 

[the_outsider]

India lost this test series with their batting. Who were they missing in batting ? The bowlers did a magnificent job

True but India were missing their best bolwer for the conditions. I'm sure Bhuvi could have added value with the ball and the bat.

Not to mention Bumrah also missed the first 2 games.

If England played the first 2 games without Broad & Anderson would they have been 2-0 up? We will never know...

Anyway, India lost. That's the bottom line.

 

[MP2011]

SA played their first choice batting lineup in all 3 tests. Eng too. Except for Stokes, who had to miss 2nd test due to his ongoing trial, they've also played all the bats they wanted to.

 

[MP2011]

Bhuvi would've been great for this Indian team especially in conditions which've not been too great for batsmen.

 

[mkyawar]

I agree India lost both these test series due to their batting. However its not easy for visiting teams to bat well all the times in overseas conditions, true for almost all teams of this generation and India is no exception to that.

Also, Rahane in 2/3 tests in SA and Pujara in first test of this series were missing. Whether they were missing due to selection issues is immaterial. Point is, they were missing from final XI.

Well that is not the other teams fault. The bitter truth is, Ravi Shastri and both Virat Kohli were opening their big mouths and talking as if this is the greatest indian team to visit india. you mean this is the best batting line up better than sehwag, dravid, tendulkar or laxman. It is ok to lose overseas but no other team opens their big mouths as India does before touring SA, England and Australia

 

[the_outsider]

Well that is not the other teams fault. The bitter truth is, Ravi Shastri and both Virat Kohli were opening their big mouths and talking as if this is the greatest indian team to visit india. you mean this is the best batting line up better than sehwag, dravid, tendulkar or laxman. It is ok to lose overseas but no other team opens their big mouths as India does before touring SA, England and Australia

Did you read the media reports and transcripts?

Because nowhere has Virat or Ravi said that this is the best Indian team.

They have said that it's the best bowling unit India has ever carried overseas and that has been proven already.

Ravi has also said that "the endeavour is to be the best touring side in the world".

Not once did they claim that they are already the best touring side.

It's one thing to criticize a team but that doesn't mean you should twist people's words.

 

[BDfanforever]

This is why I do not rate Test Cricket. Toss is a factor, weather is a factor, pitch is a factor, home or away is 90% a factor. Everything is a factor.

No other sports in the world has these many factors.

 

[BDfanforever]

True but India were missing their best bolwer for the conditions. I'm sure Bhuvi could have added value with the ball and the bat.

Not to mention Bumrah also missed the first 2 games.

If England played the first 2 games without Broad & Anderson would they have been 2-0 up? We will never know...

Anyway, India lost. That's the bottom line.

I do not dispute India being #1 Test Team. However, India played all of their best bowlers.

Shami, Bumrah, Ishant>>>Trundler Bhuvi.

 

[mkyawar]

Did you read the media reports and transcripts?

Because nowhere has Virat or Ravi said that this is the best Indian team.

They have said that it's the best bowling unit India has ever carried overseas and that has been proven already.

Ravi has also said that "the endeavour is to be the best touring side in the world".

Not once did they claim that they are already the best touring side.

It's one thing to criticize a team but that doesn't mean you should twist people's words.

I agree with you but this team does not need a guy like shastri who is a motivator, they need someone like a kumble who is tactically shrewd, something which kohli lacks. Indian team was arrogant and did not respect the traditions of test cricket. They refused to play practice matches. They had one practice match, that too they reduced it from a 4 day to a 3 day with 18 players playing. After losing the ODI series, Dinesh Kartik went to europe with his wife. Dont you have to practice considering that you are struggling for your place in the side.

Bottom line is that this Indian team did not prepare well for this tour. They were arrogant and casual thinking that they could get used to england test conditions by doing a net session here and there. They try to defy logic and challenge test cricket by simply not enough practice games. Do not give me this excuse that there was no time. They could have easily organized it but were busy holidaying in london and europe.

https://www.mid-day.com/articles/di...-holiday-with-husband-dinesh-karthik/19629158

Hopefully, this SA and Enngland teaches India a lesson. Do not try to challenge the basics of test cricket and play practice matches and try not to holiday between mid tour especially when you are not doing well.

 

[the_outsider]

I agree with you but this team does not need a guy like shastri who is a motivator, they need someone like a kumble who is tactically shrewd, something which kohli lacks. Indian team was arrogant and did not respect the traditions of test cricket. They refused to play practice matches. They had one practice match, that too they reduced it from a 4 day to a 3 day with 18 players playing. After losing the ODI series, Dinesh Kartik went to europe with his wife. Dont you have to practice considering that you are struggling for your place in the side.

Bottom line is that this Indian team did not prepare well for this tour. They were arrogant and casual thinking that they could get used to england test conditions by doing a net session here and there. They try to defy logic and challenge test cricket by simply not enough practice games. Do not give me this excuse that there was no time. They could have easily organized it but were busy holidaying in london and europe.

https://www.mid-day.com/articles/di...-holiday-with-husband-dinesh-karthik/19629158

Hopefully, this SA and Enngland teaches India a lesson. Do not try to challenge the basics of test cricket and play practice matches and try not to holiday between mid tour especially when you are not doing well.

Yeah I totally agree with you on this.

India would have been much better with Kumble.

Hopefully Shastri will be gone after the WC.

 

[Kohli The King of Chase]

Not needed. When a team like Pakistan can draw 3-3(2016, 18) ,in 6 matches, especially winning 1 test with a nothing team this year, we being a #1 team should've won the series 3-2 at the very least.

We deserve this criticism, as a nobody like Curran and, a Pseudo All rounder, Moeen, have humiliated us.

Special thanks to Kohli's captaincy and, Rahul's no contribution, the best young player in the world atm.

 

[Pakhs]

Not needed. When a team like Pakistan can draw 3-3(2016, 18) ,in 6 matches, especially winning 1 test with a nothing team this year, we being a #1 team should've won the series 3-2 at the very least.

We deserve this criticism, as a nobody like Curran and, a Pseudo All rounder, Moeen, have humiliated us.

Special thanks to Kohli's captaincy and, Rahul's no contribution, the best young player in the world atm.

Also dont forget this was the last chance for this current Indian team which many class as their best ever. Next time they tour most of them will be past their best.

 

[big_gamer007]

Whatever anyone says this is a disgraceful performance by Indian team and they should be ashamed of it.

Bits and pieces performance will never get you a test series win, you need a team performance to win test series and sadly Indian team did not have a solid team performance.

Thoroughly humiliated and should hang their heads in shame.

However you may want to sugarcoat it, it has been nothing but a pathetic display.

 

[The Googly]

Whatever anyone says this is a disgraceful performance by Indian team and they should be ashamed of it.

Bits and pieces performance will never get you a test series win, you need a team performance to win test series and sadly Indian team did not have a solid team performance.

Thoroughly humiliated and should hang their heads in shame.

However you may want to sugarcoat it, it has been nothing but a pathetic display.

PROS :

1. India have been very competitive in 2 tests and won the Nottingham test by a mile.

2. Virat Kohli proved he is a genius and one of the all time greats.

3. Pujara showed he is a world class test bat and Rahane had some good moments.

4. The pace bowlers were good throughout.

CONS :

1. They were competitive at Birmingham due to Kohli being dropped and several other easy missed catches.

2. Root made a stupid decision at the toss in Nottingham to let India in.

3. You knew that India had no chance at Birmingham and Southampton once the lead went over 200 -India simply cannot chase to save their life.

4. Ashwin was rubbish and was outbowled by Moeen.

5. This has been a series made for pace bowlers. India bowlers were good but not good enough. England scored solid totals in the 4 innings at Birmingham and Southampton despite the conditions being perfect for swing and pace. Their prowess was overated!