Mashal Khan lynching: Shooter Imran Ali sentenced to death, 5 given 25 years in jail [Update #280]

[Adil_94]

A 23-year-old student of Abdul Wali Khan University, Mardan was killed and another seriously injured by a vigilante mob for allegedly "publishing blasphemous content online", local police said Thursday.

The incident occurred within the university premises. The campus was shut down following the incident until further notice and its hostels vacated to avoid a further escalation of violence.

45 people had been arrested in connection with the incident by Thursday evening, according to Mardan District Police Officer Dr Mian Saeed.

No case had been filed against the two students prior to the incident and police had not been investigating the two on blasphemy charges.

The mob instead seems to have been incited by rumours circulating among the university's student body.

Mardan's Deputy Inspector General (DIG) of Police Mohammad Alam Shinwari said the deceased student, Mashal, had been accused of running Facebook pages "which allegedly published blasphemous content".

He was attacked by a large group of students and appears to have succumbed to a gunshot wound, the DIG said.

“The charged students then wanted to burn his body,” Shinwari said, before police intervened.

'Beaten and bloody': eyewitnesses recount horror

An eyewitness at the scene of the incident said Mashal and Abdullah, two Mass Communication students, were attacked because they were believed to be "promoting the Ahmadi faith on Facebook".

The eyewitness said a mob of university students first surrounded Abdullah and forced him to recite verses from the Holy Quran. Although he repeatedly denied the accusation that he was an Ahmadi, the students beat him nonetheless.

The police, when alerted, reached the site of the attack and rescued Abdullah, after which the mob set its sights on Mashal, who was in the hostel at the time, the eyewitness said.

Mashal was beaten and shot by the mob and succumbed to the injuries he received.

Video footage of the incident showed Mashal lying on the floor surrounded by men. The student was not moving and his body bore marks of severe torture. Men could be seen kicking his lifeless body and beating it with wooden planks.

Towards the end of the video, he was pulled from his clothes by an unidentified man.

A student requesting anonymity said several leaders of the university's student bodies were part of the attacking mob.

One of Mashal's teachers later told Reuters that he was a passionate and critical student.

“He was brilliant and inquisitive, always complaining about the political system of the country, but I never heard him saying anything controversial against the religion,” the teacher said.

'Police unable to control the situation'

University administration official Fayaz Ali Shah confirmed that the mob of students had killed Mashal over allegations of 'blasphemy'.

He said over 20 officers had arrived at the scene, were unable to control the situation because there were so many students involved.

Hostel warden Muhammad Ali, recounting the incident, claimed that: "Three to four thousand students were approaching. I was alerted that they were approaching, so I closed the gates but they broke in, found Mashal and fired at him and started beating him."

Students said police had been alerted of the incident and were present on campus at the time. When asked why they didn't intervene, police said there were "too many people" in the mob for them to take on.

https://www.dawn.com/news/1326729

The 'blasphemy' he was accused of was promoting Ahmadi beliefs online.

Disgusting to see but then again im not surprised to see these type of actions considering the virulent Anti-Ahmadi rhetoric in many quarters of Pakistani society.

RIP to the victim and just shame on those who committed such a barbaric act of vigilante murder.

 

[hafeezrocks]

Read it before, baffled how could this happen at University premises of all places.

What is the point of education then?

 

[Saeed]

Sentence every single of them for life. Why were university students even discussing this? There is no point of them being in a university if they can't handle different opinions.

 

[Moiza]

Build a big fire and throw all the people involved in it, they're deserving of such treatment.

For those who wonder how could it happen inside the university premises, how could it not? You have 100s of closed minded individuals who get pumped up just because of rumors, I don't see how this could've been prevented.

I hope pti government takes very strict action against all those involved, if they don't then they're just like every other party. Imran should take a stand against this barbaric act!

 

[DW44]

The first ever lynching of this kind in KPK. Previously such incidents were usually limited to northern and central Punjab. Guess it was inevitable with rising extremism among the general public and we'll be seeing more. RIP to the deceased and may the perpetrators suffer a fate that makes them a cautionary tale for future Islamist vigilantes but knowing Pakistan, most of them will get away with a slap on the wrist and that's if they're unlucky. The blood boils when you see this kind of thing become the order of the day but like they say, their country their rules and the majority is clearly in no hurry to do away with this rubbish so all I can say is may every one who condones this kind of thing end up on the receiving end one day. And to think these are the people who play victim all day long.

 

[Abdullah719]

A student requesting anonymity said several leaders of the university's student bodies were part of the attacking mob.

Disgusting.

 

[Third_Umpire]

Truly shameful and pathetic.

 

[Syed1]

This is utterly disgusting. All those involved should be given lengthy prison sentences, with the main culprits getting life sentences.

 

[Pakpak]

The first ever lynching of this kind in KPK. Previously such incidents were usually limited to northern and central Punjab. Guess it was inevitable with rising extremism among the general public and we'll be seeing more. RIP to the deceased and may the perpetrators suffer a fate that makes them a cautionary tale for future Islamist vigilantes but knowing Pakistan, most of them will get away with a slap on the wrist and that's if they're unlucky. The blood boils when you see this kind of thing become the order of the day but like they say, their country their rules and the majority is clearly in no hurry to do away with this rubbish so all I can say is may every one who condones this kind of thing end up on the receiving end one day. And to think these are the people who play victim all day long.

Man you should stay safe, especially saying such stuff online.

 

[DW44]

Man you should stay safe, especially saying such stuff online.

I have exactly one week left in Pakistan. Getting the hell out of dodge, enough is enough.

 

[waqar goraya]

Even if that unfortunate man had actually committed a crime by law, they had no right to take his life. There is a concept of a fair trial in every society and these so called university students should have known that.

Even if this crime is punishable by death, dozens of them could not be completely sure of his involvement in the so called sin, let alone that they were not supposed to act as jury and executioners.

 

[Donal Cozzie]

When your next generation are doing stuff like this, future ain't looking too bright

 

[DRsohail]

Disgusting.

and this should not be defficult to guess where they belong..

 

[Major]

I have cousins, one of them is a hafiz and has done masters, and his brothers would always go on telling you how the prophet lived the life of sunnat and did good and all and never did wrong. In the day they will tell these stories to everyone, quote verses and all.

At night time during friends gantherings, they will drink alcahol, smoke drugs and all proudly discuss about the fights they had or the girls they chat with and sleep with and call them whores.

And yet those guys would go on swearing against Ahmedi's, Shias, Yahoodis and non muslims

Funny enough, those kind of people would probably justify the above murder that took place aswell. I'm pretty sure they would.

So now you tell me how is it that people like me could continue to live with such people.

And also if a guy likes me questions what they say regarding religion, i get called a gustakh and all.

 

[Moiza]

I have cousins, one of them is a hafiz and has done masters, and his brothers would always go on telling you how the prophet lived the life of sunnat and did good and all and never did wrong. In the day they will tell these stories to everyone, quote verses and all.

At night time during friends gantherings, they will drink alcahol, smoke drugs and all proudly discuss about the fights they had or the girls they chat with and sleep with and call them whores.

And yet those guys would go on swearing against Ahmedi's, Shias, Yahoodis and non muslims

Funny enough, those kind of people would probably justify the above murder that took place aswell. I'm pretty sure they would.

So now you tell me how is it that people like me could continue to live with such people.

And also if a guy likes me questions what they say regarding religion, i get called a gustakh and all.

THIS THIS THIS. I have come across countless such examples. These sorts of people IMO are the worst of creations. People in Pakistan have a hatred towards anyone with a liberal mindset but atleast the liberals dont go around killing people unlike these scums who in the day live the "protector of Islam life" and at night time they indulge themselves in the same activities they were cursing throughout the day.

 

[Major]

THIS THIS THIS. I have come across countless such examples. These sorts of people IMO are the worst of creations. People in Pakistan have a hatred towards anyone with a liberal mindset but atleast the liberals dont go around killing people unlike these scums who in the day live the "protector of Islam life" and at night time they indulge themselves in the same activities they were cursing throughout the day.

oh yes how could i forget about the liberal and secular hate that is given out on facebook, even paray likhay log with bash you for being liberal.

Yesterday, i came from a part of the said cousins who is going to Saudia for a job. The guy celebrated his farewell by drinking booze and what not, and then later tells me how its great thing from god that he is going to Saudia the land of the pious and what not....

 

[Moiza]

I hope Allah holds Zia accountable for this. It's hard to imagine how the mindset of one person changed the mindset of whole nation in such a short period of time.

Pakistan is extremely hypocritical too. When muslims were killed in India over the cow issue they would not stop posting about it day and night but when a muslim is killed in Pakistan in such a barbaric fashion each one of them is silent. What a disgrace.

 

[world cup captain]

How pathetic. I didn't think something so heinous would happen in a university but this is simply unacceptable. Rather than protect religion, the government needs to protect the people from such nut jobs.

 

[Adil_94]

[MENTION=135038]Major[/MENTION] this sounds like a lot of guys i know in the U.K too. extolling the virtues of Islam and while doing many things that arent looked upon kindly in Islam. They still.hold this bigoted attitudes towards Jews Hindus Ahmadis etc. And they sleep with girls or have girlfriends yet call them whores. But then act like biggest theykadar of Islam when liberals question Mullahs and they support people like Mumtaz Qadri despite only praying Juma once a week.

Or try to make a false equivalnce between "liberal extremists" and Jihadists

Because Pakistani Liberals are killing mullahs to increase womens rights.

 

[Badsha]

I am ashamed to be from this country.

 

[world cup captain]

I have exactly one week left in Pakistan. Getting the hell out of dodge, enough is enough.

If you don't mind answering, have you ever encountered any discrimination in Pakistan due to being an atheist? And where in Pakistan are you right now?

 

[DW44]

If you don't mind answering, have you ever encountered any discrimination in Pakistan due to being an atheist? And where in Pakistan are you right now?

Only two or three people very close to me even know about it. Being outed as an atheist in Pakistan can put your life at risk so you have to walk on eggshells 24/7. In public I'm just an extremely liberal Muslim which is not easy either but at least you don't have to worry about ending up getting charged with a capital offense or at the business end of a mob.

 

[PakLFC]

These people see blasphemy in everything. I despise these people as I do the Hindu fundo's! Both are as bad as each other forcing their views on those who just want to live their lives peacefully.

 

[world cup captain]

Only two or three people very close to me even know about it. Being outed as an atheist in Pakistan can put your life at risk so you have to walk on eggshells 24/7. In public I'm just an extremely liberal Muslim which is not easy either but at least you don't have to worry about ending up getting charged with a capital offense or at the business end of a mob.

I'm going through a similar thing here in America with my family, as I can't reveal me being an atheist. But I suppose life will never be the same again.

 

[Tera Gawaandi]

DAWN has video on its website, mob is 100+, faces are easy to recognize.

 

[Enigma_]

The blasphemy law is the single biggest disgrace in the constitution of our country. It isn't even justifiable. Disgusting.

 

[Belawal2014]

Shameful and disgusting...

 

[kukkad kamaal]

Really sad stuff

 

[DW44]

I'm going through a similar thing here in America with my family, as I can't reveal me being an atheist. But I suppose life will never be the same again.

My family (minus my father) and one extremely close friend know. At some point you have to tell someone because it starts eating at you if you keep it to yourself. In the US it should be even easier because you wouldn't have to worry about your safety or any of that stuff. Life definitely won't be the same again but its worth it because the longer you keep it to yourself, the more isolated you feel and I say from experience that it can drive you crazy pretending to be something you're not day in and day out.

 

[Slog]

angers me to no end

this is a university, a place of learning

 

[marlonbrowndo]

Awful

 

[SarfiBabarHaris]

that too n a university.
so sad, so so sad.

janay kab kon kisay maar dai kaafir kh kr
shehar ka shehar musalman bana phirta hai

 

[Romali_rotti]

The first ever lynching of this kind in KPK. Previously such incidents were usually limited to northern and central Punjab. Guess it was inevitable with rising extremism among the general public and we'll be seeing more. RIP to the deceased and may the perpetrators suffer a fate that makes them a cautionary tale for future Islamist vigilantes but knowing Pakistan, most of them will get away with a slap on the wrist and that's if they're unlucky. The blood boils when you see this kind of thing become the order of the day but like they say, their country their rules and the majority is clearly in no hurry to do away with this rubbish so all I can say is may every one who condones this kind of thing end up on the receiving end one day. And to think these are the people who play victim all day long.

Shining Pakistan

 

[DW44]

Shining Pakistan

Like I've said to several of your compatriots in the past, don't co-opt my plight and constructive criticism of Pakistan for political point scoring. There is no bigger hypocrite than an Indian or Pakistani that tries to get one over on the other country by using incidents like this because neither country has any moral standing to be able to call the other out on this kind of thing.

 

[waqar goraya]

Imran Khan condemns lynching of Mardan student: 'law of the jungle cannot prevail'

Pakistan Tehreek-i-Insaf (PTI) Chief Imran Khan on Friday condemned the lynching of a 23-year-old student of Abdul Wali Khan University, Mardan by an enraged mob a day earlier.

Khan, in a tweet, said: "I am in touch with the Khyber Pakhtunkhwa Inspector General since last night on condemnable lynching of student in Mardan."

The PTI chief noted, "Law of the jungle can't prevail," and said that firm action is necessary.

Imran Khan condemns lynching of Mardan student: 'law of the jungle cannot prevail'
DAWN.COMUPDATED 16 MINUTES AGO
36 COMMENTS EMAIL PRINT
Pakistan Tehreek-i-Insaf (PTI) Chief Imran Khan on Friday condemned the lynching of a 23-year-old student of Abdul Wali Khan University, Mardan by an enraged mob a day earlier.

Khan, in a tweet, said: "I am in touch with the Khyber Pakhtunkhwa Inspector General since last night on condemnable lynching of student in Mardan."

The PTI chief noted, "Law of the jungle can't prevail," and said that firm action is necessary.

Condemning the act, PTI MNA Asad Umer also tweeted:

"Mardan lynching yet another example of how increasing intolerance is destroying the fabric of society"

https://www.dawn.com/news/1326919/i...rdan-student-law-of-the-jungle-cannot-prevail

 

[saeedhk]

I have cousins, one of them is a hafiz and has done masters, and his brothers would always go on telling you how the prophet lived the life of sunnat and did good and all and never did wrong. In the day they will tell these stories to everyone, quote verses and all.

At night time during friends gantherings, they will drink alcahol, smoke drugs and all proudly discuss about the fights they had or the girls they chat with and sleep with and call them whores.

And yet those guys would go on swearing against Ahmedi's, Shias, Yahoodis and non muslims

Funny enough, those kind of people would probably justify the above murder that took place aswell. I'm pretty sure they would.

So now you tell me how is it that people like me could continue to live with such people.

And also if a guy likes me questions what they say regarding religion, i get called a gustakh and all.

This. I have also previously talked about this phenomenon on multiple occasions. Current young Pakistani Muslims are the biggest hypocrites I have ever seen.

You will see young Pakistanis including those living in western and eastern democratizes chanting 'Gustakh ki saza sar tan say juda' on FB but then when you meet or know them in real life, you see them engaging in every sort of anti-social and unislamic acts and behaviour.


Remember the guy who hit JJ at Islamabad airport for alleged blasphemy? People did a bit of research on him on FB and guess what, he had numerous snaps of him posing with high-end liquor bottles.

 

[DW44]

This. I have also previously talked about this phenomenon on multiple occasions. Current young Pakistani Muslims are the biggest hypocrites I have ever seen.

You will see young Pakistanis including those living in western and eastern democratizes chanting 'Gustakh ki saza sar tan say juda' on FB but then when you meet or know them in real life, you see them engaging in every sort of anti-social and unislamic acts and behaviour.


Remember the guy who hit JJ at Islamabad airport for alleged blasphemy? People did a bit of research on him on FB and guess what, he had numerous snaps of him posing with high-end liquor bottles.

Or JJ himself for that matter who, despite having crafted an image of piety, stole tens of millions, if not billions, of Rupees from the people of Pakistan through tax evasion. I don't see the point of discrediting extremists by associating them with alcohol as if that's where the main problem lies. The theme on this thread, as far as condemnation of extremists go, seems to be to completely ignore the religious aspect and focus on how they're hypocrites because they drink when it's not their fondness for alcohol but their religious beliefs that are the driving factor in such cases. The assumption here is that unless someone is a model Muslim, anything they do in the name of Islam can be attributed to their other failings(not that drinking is in any way a character flaw) instead of the true reason which is their strong belief in a particular brand of the religion(which is as legitimate as any other, more or less tolerant, brand of the same religion).

 

[Moiza]

This. I have also previously talked about this phenomenon on multiple occasions. Current young Pakistani Muslims are the biggest hypocrites I have ever seen.

You will see young Pakistanis including those living in western and eastern democratizes chanting 'Gustakh ki saza sar tan say juda' on FB but then when you meet or know them in real life, you see them engaging in every sort of anti-social and unislamic acts and behaviour.


Remember the guy who hit JJ at Islamabad airport for alleged blasphemy? People did a bit of research on him on FB and guess what, he had numerous snaps of him posing with high-end liquor bottles.

Forget individuals, we have religious leader like Mufti Qavi who talk about being Islamic but are later found with qandeel baloch. Worst of creation.

 

[DW44]

Forget individuals, we have religious leader like Mufti Qavi who talk about being Islamic but are later found with qandeel baloch. Worst of creation.

Exhibit A of what I was referring to in my previous post.

 

[Hamza_]

Education can't change this country, I'm a firm believer of this, We need to change norms of this country.

We can spend billions on education and universities but nothing will change.

 

[DW44]

Imran Khan condemns lynching of Mardan student: 'law of the jungle cannot prevail'



https://www.dawn.com/news/1326919/i...rdan-student-law-of-the-jungle-cannot-prevail

""Mardan lynching yet another example of how increasing intolerance is destroying the fabric of society"

And letting Jamat e Islami dictate what goes in school books is the easiest and quickest way to fight against growing intolerance. What's that they say in Urdu about "qaul aur fail may tazaad"? Lets see what concrete actions are taken because I've just about had it with these condemnations after every incident with zero follow up. I'll be particularly interested in seeing the impact of this development on their relationship with their coalition partners/soulmates considering the involvement of said coalition partner's student/militant wing in the lynching.

 

[Hamza_]

This. I have also previously talked about this phenomenon on multiple occasions. Current young Pakistani Muslims are the biggest hypocrites I have ever seen.

You will see young Pakistanis including those living in western and eastern democratizes chanting 'Gustakh ki saza sar tan say juda' on FB but then when you meet or know them in real life, you see them engaging in every sort of anti-social and unislamic acts and behaviour.


Remember the guy who hit JJ at Islamabad airport for alleged blasphemy? People did a bit of research on him on FB and guess what, he had numerous snaps of him posing with high-end liquor bottles.

And young Muslim Pakistanis are supposed to be educated ones

 

[Moiza]

Exhibit A of what I was referring to in my previous post.

I, once argued with you a lot over the fact there is still hope in Pakistan, I was wrong. I'm honestly amazed at the religous hypocrisy of the general population. Disgusting to see people justifying what was done to the poor man. This sort of religous hypocrisy will be the death of this country. Zia must be proud.

I pray to God that PTI shows some guts and hang all those involved.

 

[Moiza]

Education can't change this country, I'm a firm believer of this, We need to change norms of this country.

We can spend billions on education and universities but nothing will change.

Education can. This country wasn't always like, the mindset of one person turned this country into such an intolerant mess. The government of all the provinces should show some guts and amend the religious text taught in schools. The focus should be on being a model citizen.

 

[Hamza_]

Education can. This country wasn't always like, the mindset of one person turned this country into such an intolerant mess. The government of all the provinces should show some guts and amend the religious text taught in schools. The focus should be on being a model citizen.

No religious text books have written to go and kill those who committed blasphemy.

This is part of norm and culture, From generation, society and so on. You can't change it until and unless you don't focus over your environment and culture as a society.

 

[big_gamer007]

RIP very sad news..

 

[Big Mac]

The blasphemy law is the single biggest disgrace in the constitution of our country. It isn't even justifiable. Disgusting.

Yep, the blasphemy laws encourage these incidents because idiots feel as though mob violence is state sanctioned. Abolish the blasphemy laws and these incidents will decrease as well making it easier to punish those responsible.

 

[world cup captain]

My family (minus my father) and one extremely close friend know. At some point you have to tell someone because it starts eating at you if you keep it to yourself. In the US it should be even easier because you wouldn't have to worry about your safety or any of that stuff. Life definitely won't be the same again but its worth it because the longer you keep it to yourself, the more isolated you feel and I say from experience that it can drive you crazy pretending to be something you're not day in and day out.

You're right. One day I will have to spill it but just gotta wait for the right time.

 

[Enigma_]

Yep, the blasphemy laws encourage these incidents because idiots feel as though mob violence is state sanctioned. Abolish the blasphemy laws and these incidents will decrease as well making it easier to punish those responsible.

The blasphemy will only be abolished when the awaam stands up for PAKISTAN and not ISLAM!

 

[Moiza]

Yep, the blasphemy laws encourage these incidents because idiots feel as though mob violence is state sanctioned. Abolish the blasphemy laws and these incidents will decrease as well making it easier to punish those responsible.

Whosoever thinks that what happened yesterday was a product of the blasphemy law is either ignorant about the ground realities of Pakistan or just hasn't been to Pakistan in a long while.

 

[Big Mac]

Whosoever thinks that what happened yesterday was a product of the blasphemy law is either ignorant about the ground realities of Pakistan or just hasn't been to Pakistan in a long while.

Blasphemy laws aren't the only reason, but they are a massive factor. To say otherwise is to bury your head in the sand.

 

[Waseem]

Extremely shocking incident, more due to the fact that these were so called educated people.

On the positive side, there has been some very strong reaction against the killing and most culprits have been arrested as well. I really hope this case becomes example so at least students or youngsters think many times before committing such crime.

 

[Gabbar Singh]

What was life like for the Ahmadiyya Muslim community in Pakistan prior to 1974 when the constitutiom declared them non-Muslims? Lots of public figures (like Imran Khan) are rightly condemning this attack but no one dares to talk about the constitutional anti-Ahmadiyya position.

 

[CricketCartoons]

What was life like for the Ahmadiyya Muslim community in Pakistan prior to 1974 when the constitutiom declared them non-Muslims? Lots of public figures (like Imran Khan) are rightly condemning this attack but no one dares to talk about the constitutional anti-Ahmadiyya position.

When morality is infested by prejudice, then how can outrage not be unbiased. From Imran Khan to Aung San Suu Kyi, to us lesser mortals, all of us have biases in our outrage. Like I am ready to announce my outrage on any event as long as it does not step on my own biases, and I go missing in action, eg Kashmir, when crimes are committed by the army I support, or my co religionists.

 

[Madplayer]

Like i said many times, state needs to use proper propaganda machinery, using popular moulvis etc to bring people in line with tolerance towards all faiths. It will take many years though.

 

[Waseem]

Like i said many times, state needs to use proper propaganda machinery, using popular moulvis etc to bring people in line with tolerance towards all faiths. It will take many years though.

THIS!! This is the propaganda i don't mind. Use media, gov machinery, sane scholars to convince next generation why this is against Islam to take law in their own hands. Just punishment may not be enough for long lasting impact.

 

[DW44]

Education can. This country wasn't always like, the mindset of one person turned this country into such an intolerant mess. The government of all the provinces should show some guts and amend the religious text taught in schools. The focus should be on being a model citizen.

It can't. Education in Pakistan is part of the problem. The reason we have two entire generations worth of extremists in Pakistan is because of the formal education system which the religious parties, Jamat e Islami foremost among them, tailored to produce exactly this kind of a mindset. Secondly, it's not as simple as declaring everything Zia's fault while overlooking all the little bits and pieces that added up to create the fustercluck we have on our hands now. This whole situation became inevitable when the Objectives Resolution was passed and legislation formally went from being the domain of lawyers and politicians to clerics. When that resolution was passed it became a matter of when rather than if and the man responsible was Liaqat Ali Khan. The role of Arabs can't be understated as the essentially bought the rights to interfere in our legislation, resulting in the alcohol and Ahmadi laws of the mid 70s which was Bhutto's doing. Zia just took Bhutto's and Liaqat's work to it's logical conclusion but the day that ridiculous resolution was passed, this became inevitable.

Like i said many times, state needs to use proper propaganda machinery, using popular moulvis etc to bring people in line with tolerance towards all faiths. It will take many years though.

Ayub tried exactly that and it didn't work and he ultimately had to get in bed with the hardliners. These half-assed measures essentially amount to trying to treat a gunshot wound with a band aid which is to say they're extremely inadequate. The root of the problem is that Pakistan is officially an Islamic state and that is what the hardliners use to get their way because anything can be justified as long as it's for Islam. The only real solution is for the state to publicly and completely divorce itself from religion so as to deligitmize these theykedaars of Islam that get away with everything but that's a bitter pill to swallow for most, even the ones condemning this incident, so basically, anyone opposed to such acts who still wants Pakistan to remain an Islamic state should shut up and put up because as long as that is part of our constitution, the hardliners will keep finding ways to get their way as they have for the last 68 years in the face of every kind of obstacle imaginable.

 

[Pakpak]

Only two or three people very close to me even know about it. Being outed as an atheist in Pakistan can put your life at risk so you have to walk on eggshells 24/7. In public I'm just an extremely liberal Muslim which is not easy either but at least you don't have to worry about ending up getting charged with a capital offense or at the business end of a mob.

My brother knows, and my mother suspects.

People don't realise its not a one-day thing. Noone in my family was religious much, but my family went through two massive traumatic events in the space of 5 years that changed who we are. They became very religious after that as it gave them peace. And I became the opposite as that is how I dealt with it and everything made sense to me.

In Pakistan admitting you're an atheist is threatening your very life. I am sure there are plenty in closets but its not worth it beyond that.

 

[Hamza_]

My brother knows, and my mother suspects.

People don't realise its not a one-day thing. Noone in my family was religious much, but my family went through two massive traumatic events in the space of 5 years that changed who we are. They became very religious after that as it gave them peace. And I became the opposite as that is how I dealt with it and everything made sense to me.

In Pakistan admitting you're an atheist is threatening your very life. I am sure there are plenty in closets but its not worth it beyond that.

Your life well maybe threatened if you speak against any such Islamic Law.

 

[DW44]

My brother knows, and my mother suspects.

People don't realise its not a one-day thing. Noone in my family was religious much, but my family went through two massive traumatic events in the space of 5 years that changed who we are. They became very religious after that as it gave them peace. And I became the opposite as that is how I dealt with it and everything made sense to me.

In Pakistan admitting you're an atheist is threatening your very life. I am sure there are plenty in closets but its not worth it beyond that.

Exactly, it's not a one day thing and you're entire life is basically a masquerade. It's so infuriating when some idiot in the UK with known Islamist sympathies tells you that you're blowing things out of proportion and there are no real threats and atheists are thriving because they think some writers or columnnists with liberal leanings are atheists who're thriving here.

 

[saeedhk]

Or JJ himself for that matter who, despite having crafted an image of piety, stole tens of millions, if not billions, of Rupees from the people of Pakistan through tax evasion. I don't see the point of discrediting extremists by associating them with alcohol as if that's where the main problem lies. The theme on this thread, as far as condemnation of extremists go, seems to be to completely ignore the religious aspect and focus on how they're hypocrites because they drink when it's not their fondness for alcohol but their religious beliefs that are the driving factor in such cases. The assumption here is that unless someone is a model Muslim, anything they do in the name of Islam can be attributed to their other failings(not that drinking is in any way a character flaw) instead of the true reason which is their strong belief in a particular brand of the religion(which is as legitimate as any other, more or less tolerant, brand of the same religion).

The point I was trying to make was that these hardliners/extremists set different standards for themselves and for others. No doubt,extremists are at the forefront in Pakistan's race towards the point of no return.

 

[Moiza]

Blasphemy laws aren't the only reason, but they are a massive factor. To say otherwise is to bury your head in the sand.

Irrespective of the blasphemy law the uni student was destined to die in such fashion the day someone made a fake fb account in his name and posted blasphemous content.

The problem lies in social norms and culture rather than some law.

 

[Specialisttailender]

What was life like for the Ahmadiyya Muslim community in Pakistan prior to 1974 when the constitutiom declared them non-Muslims? Lots of public figures (like Imran Khan) are rightly condemning this attack but no one dares to talk about the constitutional anti-Ahmadiyya position.

Supposedly Karachi for was much more multi cultural and more liberal in 70s and 80s. Religion supposedly mattered much as it matters to Indians today. Now things have changed and this change isn't good.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Supposedly Karachi for was much more multi cultural and more liberal in 70s and 80s. Religion supposedly mattered much as it matters to Indians today. Now things have changed and this change isn't good.

You mean Karachi had extremism like Indians have now?

 

[Specialisttailender]

You'd think University is the last place where you would see this barbaric behaviour. And this to a well rated University.

Can someone tell me how much has changed in Pakistan from 70s and 80s ? What happened ? and how did it happen ?

 

[DW44]

You'd think University is the last place where you would see this barbaric behaviour. And this to a well rated University.

Can someone tell me how much has changed in Pakistan from 70s and 80s ? What happened ? and how did it happen ?

[MENTION=22846]Nostalgic[/MENTION] is probably the best person to answer this question.

 

[Specialisttailender]

You mean Karachi had extremism like Indians have now?

Can any honest Indian provide some insight regarding the so called "uprising of extremism" India in the past few years ? From my knowledge India has only become less religious and more linguistic pride. Again this is my personal experience. If a non jingo can provide some honest insight I'd be willing to listen.

 

[KingKhanWC]

My family (minus my father) and one extremely close friend know. At some point you have to tell someone because it starts eating at you if you keep it to yourself. In the US it should be even easier because you wouldn't have to worry about your safety or any of that stuff. Life definitely won't be the same again but its worth it because the longer you keep it to yourself, the more isolated you feel and I say from experience that it can drive you crazy pretending to be something you're not day in and day out.

Have you ever considered just simply forgetting about religion? As far as I'm aware, you are not questioned by authorities in Pakistan if you are a Muslim or not? People like you who claim they can't get away from religion actually spend more time than extremists talking about religion. Stop seeking attention every time a topic comes up where you feel you can. No one on here really cares.

Pakistan's problems always boil down to a pathetic law and order.

 

[kukkad kamaal]

Like I've said to several of your compatriots in the past, don't co-opt my plight and constructive criticism of Pakistan for political point scoring. There is no bigger hypocrite than an Indian or Pakistani that tries to get one over on the other country by using incidents like this because neither country has any moral standing to be able to call the other out on this kind of thing.

Completely agree with you sir

 

[Pakpak]

Have you ever considered just simply forgetting about religion? As far as I'm aware, you are not questioned by authorities in Pakistan if you are a Muslim or not? People like you who claim they can't get away from religion actually spend more time than extremists talking about religion. Stop seeking attention every time a topic comes up where you feel you can. No one on here really cares.

Pakistan's problems always boil down to a pathetic law and order.

You can't 'forget' religion when everyone expects you to fast, go attend namaz, act all religious in your family's social circle. If you don't your family looks bad. It affects your everyday, every moment. Venting online is the only place we can. So bugger off instead of telling people what they can or cannot do.

 

[Madplayer]

Ayub tried exactly that and it didn't work and he ultimately had to get in bed with the hardliners. These half-assed measures essentially amount to trying to treat a gunshot wound with a band aid which is to say they're extremely inadequate. The root of the problem is that Pakistan is officially an Islamic state and that is what the hardliners use to get their way because anything can be justified as long as it's for Islam. The only real solution is for the state to publicly and completely divorce itself from religion so as to deligitmize these theykedaars of Islam that get away with everything but that's a bitter pill to swallow for most, even the ones condemning this incident, so basically, anyone opposed to such acts who still wants Pakistan to remain an Islamic state should shut up and put up because as long as that is part of our constitution, the hardliners will keep finding ways to get their way as they have for the last 68 years in the face of every kind of obstacle imaginable.

These measures arent half assed if done properly and with patience. It is a weapon in today's time. Look at how modi has used his propaganda machinery to get people in line with hindutva ideology. ofcourse such a measure has to be coupled with other things like education , employment and overall development of the nation. That would make it more effective. I feel Conflicts among various groups in Pakistan are completely pointless without a concrete goal or end. Such a thing can be controlled if proper measure are taken.

I think its too late to Separate nation from religion now. The consequences would be disastrous at this stage. I would have suggested adopting Sufi or any of the 4 major schools of thoughts as the offical way of religion in Pakistan because they are moderate but I'm not sure how good an idea that would be.

A better way would be to keep calling it an Islamic state so that no hues and cries are raised while on the other hand they should dilute the influence of religion on laws governing the country. For this purpose, continuous use of state propaganda is extremely important to mentally prepare the people. use of media and popular moderate moulvis is important. I have seen some progressive minded moulvis on Qtv pakistan and it was a pleasant surprise to me that religious scholars in Pakistan can talk about promoting cricket to provide employment to people so that unemployed youth dont lean towards terrorism. If possible all madrassas should be registered and records should be kept.

It shouldn't be thought that this would be the be all end all and everything will be fine afterwards but it will surely set some sort of base. The real challenge will be to keep people busy with their lives in a good way. Education (part community based) and employment are the keys. In short, Doing something is better than doing nothing.

 

[Saj]

And people stood by and watched?

Where was the security?

 

[Sunny786]

My heart sank when I read this news. What has our country come to?

 

[DW44]

Have you ever considered just simply forgetting about religion? As far as I'm aware, you are not questioned by authorities in Pakistan if you are a Muslim or not? People like you who claim they can't get away from religion actually spend more time than extremists talking about religion. Stop seeking attention every time a topic comes up where you feel you can. No one on here really cares.

Pakistan's problems always boil down to a pathetic law and order.

Are you actually this thick or just putting on an act? By now it has been firmly established that you don't know the first thing about Pakistan, whether it's the state or the society, so I don't see why you keep inserting yourself in the middle of exchanges between actual Pakistanis who know what the hell they're talking about. You can't forget religion in Pakistan and yes the state absolutely does ask about your religious beliefs, not to mention society that shoves religion in your face all day long every day of the week. This is something several Pakistan based posters have repeatedly told you over the years but apparently you're an authority on Pakistan and these people who actually live in this Islamofascist state don't know what they're talking about.

Pakistan's problems boil down to pathetic law and order but that takes nothing away from the fact that Pakistani laws are pretty pathetic to begin with and that's primarily on account of their Islamic roots.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Can any honest Indian provide some insight regarding the so called "uprising of extremism" India in the past few years ? From my knowledge India has only become less religious and more linguistic pride. Again this is my personal experience. If a non jingo can provide some honest insight I'd be willing to listen.

Dont get confused by less religious and rise in extremism, both can and do exist in India. Less temple visits, less knowledge about religious scriptures, and less adherence to religious code of conduct, but MORE number of political hindus, who want to correct the perceived injustices of the past, launch a cultural aggression and make others bow to their diktat, aggressively shout down anyone whose opinion deviates from the normal defined by them.

 

[Pakpak]

Are you actually this thick or just putting on an act? By now it has been firmly established that you don't know the first thing about Pakistan, whether it's the state or the society, so I don't see why you keep inserting yourself in the middle of exchanges between actual Pakistanis who know what the hell they're talking about. You can't forget religion in Pakistan and yes the state absolutely does ask about your religious beliefs, not to mention society that shoves religion in your face all day long every day of the week. This is something several Pakistan based posters have repeatedly told you over the years but apparently you're an authority on Pakistan and these people who actually live in this Islamofascist state don't know what they're talking about.

Pakistan's problems boil down to pathetic law and order but that takes nothing away from the fact that Pakistani laws are pretty pathetic to begin with and that's primarily on account of their Islamic roots.

This same guy will be crying fake tears when Muslims are abused in the UK. I doubt he will tell them to go ''live in the mountains as its a choice you made''.

 

[Big Mac]

Irrespective of the blasphemy law the uni student was destined to die in such fashion the day someone made a fake fb account in his name and posted blasphemous content.

The problem lies in social norms and culture rather than some law.

You can't say that for certain. If there were no blasphemy laws, there would be fewer incidents like this.

Those laws make it easier for bloodthirsty idiots to justify lynch mobs.

It's the same everywhere in the world. Everyone knew that racism was alive and well in the UK and USA, but people had learned to hide it because it was nothing to be proud of. Then with the rise in xenophobic rhetoric with the Brexit referendum and a US president who was elected on the back of a white supremacist campaign we saw a large rise in hate crimes in those countries. Why? Did these racists magically appear out of thin air?

No, those political campaigns normalised racism and xenophobia and emboldened bigots.

It's the same with blasphemy laws. More people will be happy to form lynch mobs to assault and even murder atheists and religious minorities in Pakistan when they can use the law of the land as a shield to hide behind.

 

[DW44]

This same guy will be crying fake tears when Muslims are abused in the UK. I doubt he will tell them to go ''live in the mountains as its a choice you made''.

Just ignore the hypocrites, that's what I do. Don't engage them. It annoys me just as much as it does you but this is a futile argument which inevitably devolves into a mud slinging contest. The fact that threads about some Muslim woman in NYC getting kicked or some woman in London getting her hijab pulled in London gets 600 posts on a forum that literally has Pak in its name while one about a man actually being murdered by Muslims in the aforementioned Pak draws accusations of attention seeking says it all. All we have is the moral high ground and I'm not ceding it to them. It would be easy for us to go post stuff like "see all Muslims are terrorists" and other similar rubbish but what's the difference between them and us if we do that?

 

[DW44]

These measures arent half assed if done properly and with patience. It is a weapon in today's time. Look at how modi has used his propaganda machinery to get people in line with hindutva ideology. ofcourse such a measure has to be coupled with other things like education , employment and overall development of the nation. That would make it more effective. I feel Conflicts among various groups in Pakistan are completely pointless without a concrete goal or end. Such a thing can be controlled if proper measure are taken.

I think its too late to Separate nation from religion now. The consequences would be disastrous at this stage. I would have suggested adopting Sufi or any of the 4 major schools of thoughts as the offical way of religion in Pakistan because they are moderate but I'm not sure how good an idea that would be.

A better way would be to keep calling it an Islamic state so that no hues and cries are raised while on the other hand they should dilute the influence of religion on laws governing the country. For this purpose, continuous use of state propaganda is extremely important to mentally prepare the people. use of media and popular moderate moulvis is important. I have seen some progressive minded moulvis on Qtv pakistan and it was a pleasant surprise to me that religious scholars in Pakistan can talk about promoting cricket to provide employment to people so that unemployed youth dont lean towards terrorism. If possible all madrassas should be registered and records should be kept.

It shouldn't be thought that this would be the be all end all and everything will be fine afterwards but it will surely set some sort of base. The real challenge will be to keep people busy with their lives in a good way. Education (part community based) and employment are the keys. In short, Doing something is better than doing nothing.

Again, all of that has been tried in earnest and thwarted by the religious right, and this was in the 60s when the public was still fairly moderate compared to now when the majority are extremists and the moderates are a tiny minority with actual liberals being so few that they're statistically insignificant. Furthermore, this was tried by Ayub Khan who was a full blown liberal in terms of his personal beliefs but the objectives resolution, particularly the clause that states that all laws be in line with the quran and sunnat, means that any such attempts will be futile just like they were then. If you ever have time, read about the 1962 constitution of Pakistan and it's history. It's pretty fascinating and will go a long way towards explaining why what you're suggesting can never be implemented in Pakistan practically.

As long as the state continues to have an official religion, followers of that religion will always have room to capitalize on that fact and have their way because that's just how the world works. History is replete with examples of states that tried to maintain their state religion while trying to liberalize and failing with the hard right benefiting the most from such an arrangement. Remaining an Islamic state and working around that to create tolerance is like trying to cure someone suffering from cancer by working around the cancer and fixing other minor issues while leaving the cancer intact. You can't develop the economy in such a conservative society either and therefore, can't provide decent law and order which depends on the economic status of the country, because while such a state can cruise through the copy paste growth stage, it will get stuck hard when it moves to the next step that is innovation led growth because that's where having a free and open society becomes the key to continued development and that's where every single Muslim majority society bar none, even secular ones like Turkey and Malaysia, have failed.

 

[Third Man]

The blasphemy law is the single biggest disgrace in the constitution of our country. It isn't even justifiable. Disgusting.

The blasphemy law is indeed a disgrace but it's not as if this inhuman lot needs laws to commit such horrific acts. I wouldn't be surprised if many among the mob that killed Mashal even know that such a law exists in the country.