Mainul
T20I Debutant
- Joined
- Feb 16, 2014
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Brilliant! THIS!
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Brilliant! THIS!
The word ''poor batsman'' besides Fawad is unfair,harsh,impractical and also impossible one.I label it as a stupid word to use in case of Fawad.I saw Fawad play,not once- several times,almost every innings.So, it will be a denial of truth if one says that my judgement is solely based on stats.I saw his 166 against the Lankans which was in his debut test and in opening position,not his usual position.He bats at 4 or 5 but team management and captain Younis had faith on a young debutant to promote him at the most difficult position of a batting line up and he delivered.It was an innings under pressure.And he showed in his very first test what he was capable of against Herath,Ajantha (who was lethal at that time),Vas.Except him everybody collapsed.But after playing 2 more tests he was dropped-the most unfair and ridiculous decision one selector can ever make.I saw Asad play against the Lankans and other teams several times,nothing more than mediocre.No big innings,no match winning innings just one innings which earned a draw against Srilanka.And that kind of innings is normal to come by if you give a batsman so many chances as his sample size is larger than Fawad
And I saw Fawad in Asia cup,against the Lankans in ODIs, in Australia against the Aussies,In England.He was never one dimensional.One dimensional player can never survive to score such heavily at a good rate.He has already proved his calibre.If just one bad series comprising 3 ODIs can be the final verdict,then Asad wouldnt have made into playing eleven after 2012 and Amin after his first 3 ODIs.It is a very biased propaganda to promote average players like Asad and Amin who cant even score heavily in FC cricket!Fawad has heavy record in all foramts in both FC,List A and internationals.More than enough to prove his caliber
Your comment is contradictory.According to you Pakistan's domestic hasnt got good bowlers and clever captain to expose the weaknesses of a batsman.Then why on earth Asad and Amin dont take this opportunity to score heavily?Have they been assured of a place in national side inspite of what they perform in domestics?Probably yes-looking at the world famous nepotism of Pak cricket.Actually they have limited capability to play big innings in any format in a regular fashion.So they will never have good average at good SR in any format of both domestic and International matches.There FC and List A record is no more than ordinary,they wouldnt have got chance for sure into any top side.Just go through the domestic records of India and Srilankans natonal team's batsman.You will hardly see a batsman of Asad's and Amin's calibre and record.
Domestic stats does speak truth in almost every case.You cant judge on exception.Younis and Misbah are currently 2 reliable and high average player in tests for Pakistan.Because they have high average in FC cricket.They first proved them in domestic format and hence they succeeded in tests.Miandad,Yousuf,Injamam all had the same scenario.
If you talk about one dimensionality,Asad is a good example.He can only bat at no 3!You have mentioned it several times.A good middle order batsman can bat in any position from no 3-6 according to team's requirement.Fawad is a no 3 at most no 4 player.But look at him.He scored at no 6-a finisher's position,he won matches at that position,he opened even and delivered.A virtual 360 degree batsman.So why so much talented player like Asad,Amin just cant beyond no 3!
You people just reminds me the fans of Md Ashraful.These people always invented and saw extraordinary talents in him. But he was as good as his stats and domestic record throughout his carrier and never improved beyound ordinary.Those people always lived in Cardiff against Australia and 2/3 other notable innings of him in so many matches.Asad and Amin will ultimately disappoint you like Ashraful, no doubt.It will ultimately prove as a wastage of investment on these 2
hats off to you sir you have made a wonderful wonderful wonderful point here in regards with asad using what he learned from seniors in the team on how to protect himself and take advantage of captaimcy(Misbah in particular) to protect his own interests.
did you also notice that imran khan, rahat ali and attaullah were not even part of main 11and Ehsan Adil was.
But in the first inning Captain asad bowled all three of them ahead of the guy who was in the 11, and then not only that but also he gace Ehsan the least overs.
In 2nd inning he bowled rahat and imran ahead of ADIL and ADIL (once again the guy who was in 11) bowled less overs than the two.
Asad is continuing on with the tradition set by seniors to keep doing favors to those who can return the favor and in doing so will absolutely ignore giving chances to people who deserve it based on their potential and people like asad will get praises after scoring hundreds when avoiding to bat up the order.
The word ''poor batsman'' besides Fawad is unfair,harsh,impractical and also impossible one.I label it as a stupid word to use in case of Fawad.I saw Fawad play,not once- several times,almost every innings.So, it will be a denial of truth if one says that my judgement is solely based on stats.I saw his 166 against the Lankans which was in his debut test and in opening position,not his usual position.He bats at 4 or 5 but team management and captain Younis had faith on a young debutant to promote him at the most difficult position of a batting line up and he delivered.It was an innings under pressure.And he showed in his very first test what he was capable of against Herath,Ajantha (who was lethal at that time),Vas.Except him everybody collapsed.But after playing 2 more tests he was dropped-the most unfair and ridiculous decision one selector can ever make.I saw Asad play against the Lankans and other teams several times,nothing more than mediocre.No big innings,no match winning innings just one innings which earned a draw against Srilanka.And that kind of innings is normal to come by if you give a batsman so many chances as his sample size is larger than Fawad
And I saw Fawad in Asia cup,against the Lankans in ODIs, in Australia against the Aussies,In England.He was never one dimensional.One dimensional player can never survive to score such heavily at a good rate.He has already proved his calibre.If just one bad series comprising 3 ODIs can be the final verdict,then Asad wouldnt have made into playing eleven after 2012 and Amin after his first 3 ODIs.It is a very biased propaganda to promote average players like Asad and Amin who cant even score heavily in FC cricket!Fawad has heavy record in all foramts in both FC,List A and internationals.More than enough to prove his caliber
Your comment is contradictory.According to you Pakistan's domestic hasnt got good bowlers and clever captain to expose the weaknesses of a batsman.Then why on earth Asad and Amin dont take this opportunity to score heavily?Have they been assured of a place in national side inspite of what they perform in domestics?Probably yes-looking at the world famous nepotism of Pak cricket.Actually they have limited capability to play big innings in any format in a regular fashion.So they will never have good average at good SR in any format of both domestic and International matches.There FC and List A record is no more than ordinary,they wouldnt have got chance for sure into any top side.Just go through the domestic records of India and Srilankans natonal team's batsman.You will hardly see a batsman of Asad's and Amin's calibre and record.
Domestic stats does speak truth in almost every case.You cant judge on exception.Younis and Misbah are currently 2 reliable and high average player in tests for Pakistan.Because they have high average in FC cricket.They first proved them in domestic format and hence they succeeded in tests.Miandad,Yousuf,Injamam all had the same scenario.
If you talk about one dimensionality,Asad is a good example.He can only bat at no 3!You have mentioned it several times.A good middle order batsman can bat in any position from no 3-6 according to team's requirement.Fawad is a no 3 at most no 4 player.But look at him.He scored at no 6-a finisher's position,he won matches at that position,he opened even and delivered.A virtual 360 degree batsman.So why so much talented player like Asad,Amin just cant beyond no 3!
You people just reminds me the fans of Md Ashraful.These people always invented and saw extraordinary talents in him. But he was as good as his stats and domestic record throughout his carrier and never improved beyound ordinary.Those people always lived in Cardiff against Australia and 2/3 other notable innings of him in so many matches.Asad and Amin will ultimately disappoint you like Ashraful, no doubt.It will ultimately prove as a wastage of investment on these 2
Wow...and they still won.Thanks and I agree with you.Ehsan is a top bowler especially with the new ball and it's a mystery how he wasn't given much overs compare to others. The only explanation I can think of is the team management told Asad Shafiq to do so..
Genius thanks for your input.Wow...and they still won.
I thought anyone less than ehsan bowling each over from both sides, would spell disaster?
Again, OTT reaction.
Wow...and they still won.
I thought anyone less than ehsan bowling each over from both sides, would spell disaster?
Again, OTT reaction.
I think if your biggest take away from a side game victory was that your favorite did not get to bowl, then perhaps it's a very narrow outlookThat's not the point. This game was to give every players a fair chance to prove themselves even if that means you lose the game. Ehsan who was originally picked in the XI as an opening bowler never got to bowl overs with the new ball..Neither he got fair spells of overs to bowl in comparison to some of other bowlers..
If I was Ehsan Adil I would be disappointed by his captaincy.
Fawad is the type of batsman who will get exposed with time and end up looking a shell of his former self eventually. Umar Akmal and Maqsood are in the same boat; they look great initially, but they have major flaws and gaping holes on which other teams work and expose them. Fawad more so than Umar and Maqsood because he's extremely one dimensional. There is no plan B.
Asad is the type of batsman who won't average 50+ in the slow and low wickets of Pakistan against trundlers and might fall cheaply against SL and Bangladesh (against which Fawad specializes), but against teams with quality pacers like SA, Australia, NZ, England etc. he will regularly come up with the goods both home and away.
I really don't see Fawad and Umar (average of 50+ in FC) lasting against bowlers like Steyn, Anderson, Harris, Johnson, Philander in Test cricket. These bowlers have the craft and intelligence to expose the weak zones of batsmen but I do see Shafiq regularly being Pakistan's best batsman against SA (already is), Australia, NZ, England which counts for more than meaningless runs in FC of Pakistan against Asad Ali and Mohammad Imran. That shows the true caliber of the best batsman.
Contrary to popular belief, Umar is not the best player of pace in Pakistan and never was. Yes he can whack them around, but is clueless defensively. He can score a Test hundred against SA or England by slogging, but he is incapable of playing a classical Test knock. Yes he does merit a place in the Test team at number 6/7, but that's it.
Shafiq's BEST position is number 3 in both Tests and ODIs, but that does not mean that he can't buy a run elsewhere. Of course it doesn't work that way but it is important to give a player a good run in his ideal position rather than shoving him up and down the order to your convenience. Could he have done better by now? absolutely and yes he does have confidence problems which he needs to work on.
For the record, I have never been high on Ashraful. Yes a lovely stroke player, but his defensive technique was always shambolic and I judge a batsman both on how he attacks and on how he defends. Could Amin go his way? absolutely yes, but it is too early to make a call and to discard him.
Asad, Haris, Babar and Amin are the only 4 proper batsmen in Pakistan today who should be developed. Not Fawad, Umar, Maqsood and Shehzad.
You seem to live in a hypothetical world. When Fawad scores, you argue that he "WILL" get exposed. When Asad doesn't score, you defend him by saying he "WILL" gain confidence. By that logic, doesn't Fawad deserve to be selected now, and Asad in the not-so-near future?
You have to watch the two play for 5 minutes to know who will recover from a setback and who won't
Production is still production, nothing is still, well nothing.
Not saying Fawad is great, but in ODI's, regardless of how they look (btw plenty of sports stick to production over talent and win championships) Fawad has produced more. One or two failures by Fawad does not overshadow the good he has done, and a 29 and 50 won't make Shafiq supersede in the rankings. One has to look at what they have done so far in their careers and at the ODI level, pretty, ugly, outrageous, Fawad has been the better player. There is nothing you an argue except the infamous "watch the game" argument that people love to use. I do, and Fawad produces more than Shafiq. The onus is now on Shafiq to take that talent and his chances and do something, and if he doesn't then no, he's not better than Fawad, and simply sighting Shafiq looks better at the crease and has class is nothing to take home with. Putting runs on the board is a talent in and of itself.
Sure, the weight of statistics will switch to Shafiq simply because he will get more chances to play and is more likely to succeed because one of these batsmen is playing cricket consistently and the other seems to be running out of his novelty factor.
With Shafiq he's failed a million times, Fawad did twice in a row and 4 years ago did pretty damn well against this same team so I'm not going to freak out about 2 matches when Shafiqs failed in many more.
Shafiq should be the better player, doesn't mean he will.
Easy to say he will definitively when he hasn't and based on two matches where he scored one 50. You do see you're being a hypocrite. You're giving a lot of love for Shafiq when you need to be more skeptical because body of work hasn't been strong at all.
But I never approached the whole thing with stats as being the ultimate arbiter. My bias stems from my much maligned "watch the game' approach
You have to watch the two play for 5 minutes to know who will recover from a setback and who won't
I never said I am not hypothesizing. I can tell you I 'hypothesized' before the Aus series that Fawad will fail and Shafiq will do better his crappy numbers.Yeah, but that doesn't change the fact that you're still hypothesizing. All hypotheses are subject to particular degrees of freedom, and to be honest, Fawad doesn't seem to fall in the 95% confidence interval for your hypothesis. He looks ugly, but gets the work done. Has been doing it in the domestics, has a high chance of doing it in internationals. That is why they say "don't judge a book by its cover". Looks can be deceptive.
And your criterion for watching the two play for 5 minutes is also biased, as Asad rarely lasts this long, and Fawad manages to look less ugly as time passes.
I never said I am not hypothesizing. I can tell you I 'hypothesized' before the Aus series that Fawad will fail and Shafiq will do better his crappy numbers.Yeah, but that doesn't change the fact that you're still hypothesizing. All hypotheses are subject to particular degrees of freedom, and to be honest, Fawad doesn't seem to fall in the 95% confidence interval for your hypothesis. He looks ugly, but gets the work done. Has been doing it in the domestics, has a high chance of doing it in internationals. That is why they say "don't judge a book by its cover". Looks can be deceptive.
And your criterion for watching the two play for 5 minutes is also biased, as Asad rarely lasts this long, and Fawad manages to look less ugly as time passes.
so the wait extends to another 8 months..
To be honest there is no vacancy in the middle order at the moment.
Harris wont play, maybe its because misbah is a batsman but he just doesnt like puttig in new faces in the batting order
Over the last few years ive noticed that the bowlers can have one poor game and they ll be out but the batters are backed through thick and thin It ll take some major loss of form or a huge debacle for someone like harris to be given a run
I don't care just get him in. Drop any one in the middle order to accommodate the future ATG.
LOL@ future ATG
Well if pakistan had won the last test match he might have been given a go.
LOL@ future ATG
Well if pakistan had won the last test match he might have been given a go.
For a prolific poster such as yourself, you know Misbah has NEVER changed a winning combination and never will. Heck if a bowler goes at 10 an over he won't replace them because he doesn't change a winning combo when someone gets a duck
I would rather have a batsman that can dominate bowlers on these ptches rather than tuk tuk to their hundreds. That's why I would prefer watching Hafeez than Misbah,YK or Azhar.
This great middle order has proven to be a failure out of uae. I'd not expect too much from them when they bat outside UAE.
Haris on the other end is new but I have seen him play fine innings for Stallions in the CL held in SA which shows he is already better than some of the legends that you are saying is hard to replace.
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Really?? Hafeez and domination.
To be fair Hafeez has either dominated or gets dominated, more often he is on the receiving end.)
Really?? Hafeez and domination.
YK can only dominate spinners.
To be fair Hafeez has either dominated or gets dominated, more often he is on the receiving end.
Players like Azhar and Shafiq will never dominate an attack. Azhar especially as he isn't a natural batsman and only took it up at the age of 21/22 which in my opinion is completely wrong. So many times we have big opening stands and Azhar comes in and starts blocking and kills momentum.
I would rather have a batsman that can dominate bowlers on these ptches rather than tuk tuk to their hundreds. That's why I would prefer watching Hafeez than Misbah,YK or Azhar.
This great middle order has proven to be a failure out of uae. I'd not expect too much from them when they bat outside UAE.
Haris on the other end is new but I have seen him play fine innings for Stallions in the CL held in SA which shows he is already better than some of the legends that you are saying is hard to replace.
Agree and Kamran Akmal is the greatest WK Batsman of all time.![]()
Always been his supporter.
Good to see him coming good, always knew he has it in him.
Wonder where are those who called him even a TTF based on 5/6 matches that he had played)
“Whether it’s 20 over, 50 over or Test cricket, the basics of batting remain the same to me and my philosophy doesn’t change. Mine is a simple approach and not an approach where I try to overcomplicate my batting.”
He is the Diaby of Pakistan cricket.
Get a simple approach to fitness you piece of glass!
Even Louis Saha had better fitness standards than him and boy was that guy injury prone or what
How? Haris Sohail only got that one injury which was serious enough to put him out of the game for so long: it can happen to anyone. Diaby has a new injury every other week.
Both are ghosts who exist in our imagination only, but a more accurate analogy would be Owen Hargreaves perhaps.
Junaid = Diaby.
He looked the most assured pakistani batsman at the worldcup in Australia.
Pakistan really do need hm for that tour , needs to get fit and slot into the test side against the Westindies .
Him and babar have to be ready by that tour or this batting lineup will get brutally dismantled.
That was mainly against ashwin i think .I thot his WC performances where pretty disappointing. He played one of the ugliest innings I have seen in a while against us . I have serious doubts that he's a good option for paks test lineup .
That was mainly against ashwin i think .
I remember him playing anderson and broad quite well in the worldcup warm up match but than again he doesnt have the pull shot in his armoury so he could be a massive flop as well in test cricket but Pakistan need to take a chance.
He has a problem with the short ball at the body for sure.
I don't see any hype, he is the best batting talent in Pakistan.So much hype. Lets hope he delivers.
I thot his WC performances where pretty disappointing. He played one of the ugliest innings I have seen in a while against us . I have serious doubts that he's a good option for paks test lineup .
When will the guy return?
It's been ages since I last saw him play and he is one of the Pak batsmen I like to watch. One of the few graceful Pak bats atm.
He's almost there. Just needs match practice.
Misbah's era is over. You won't see them anymore. Even we're tired of seeing his clones.Hope he comes back soon. Love watching aesthetic batsmen bat in all teams. Most Pak batsmen are a bit workmanlike but for the same reason, have a soft spot for Asad, Haris and the Prof.
Should be picked for the ODI series vs West Indies.
His bowling should be utilized as well. Has potential in my opinion.
a bit off topic
What would be your odi line up against England
Azhar *
Sharjeel
Hafeez
Babar
Malik
Rizwan +
Nawaz
Yamin
Hasan
Wahab
Amir
Azhar *
Sharjeel
Hafeez
Babar
Malik
Rizwan +
Nawaz
Yamin
Hasan
Wahab
Amir
looking cool with new hair cut.He should be ready for odi series against west indies this year
View attachment 68812
I would select the same team too. Good you are learning.