Mohammad Rizwan versus Shivnarine Chanderpaul (ODI Comparison)

[mominsaigol]

I was of the same view before Aus won their 2nd WTC and 2nd T20 WC.

Aus will win their 2nd wtc this June.

As for 2nd t20 wc? Aus will win it eventually, I'm 100% sure they'll win atleast one in the next decade.

Pakistan on the other hand? I'm not sure, they literally have the easiest pathway to wtc 2027 and ik they'll find a way to botch it.

 

[RizwanT20Champ]

Aus will win their 2nd wtc this June.

As for 2nd t20 wc? Aus will win it eventually, I'm 100% sure they'll win atleast one in the next decade.

Pakistan on the other hand? I'm not sure, they literally have the easiest pathway to wtc 2027 and ik they'll find a way to botch it.

They already won, no? I even wrote to ICC based on your confirmation.

 

[RizwanT20Champ]

So was he not needed in match vs India in T20WC, in Champions Trophy. Why Rizwan did not launch? Oh nihari di wait kar reha c?

He still left Pak in a good position, the useless lower order failed. What did Tendulker do in 100th century vs BD? in 2 WC finals? Anyone can twist stats to suit their narrative.

 

[mominsaigol]

They already won, no? I even wrote to ICC based on your confirmation.

I already said it made a mistake, and acknowledged it. You can keep grinding me on that mistake if you wish however none of it will change the fact that Babar and rizwan are finished in whiteball.

They were finished before they ever reached a peak.

Babar at his absolute peak was a slightly better odi batter then Joe root but currently he's a circus clown, someone like KG or saud wouldn't do any worse then Babar atm.

Rizwan at his absolute peak is a better wk batter then sarfraz Ahmed and probably better then all our wk batters except maybe Kamran Akmal although KA was inconsistent. However rizwan on current form is worse then they are by miles.

2014-2017 sarfi is better then current rizzu as a batsmen.

 

[topspin]

What a thread this is... Only aim is to troll I think... LOL...

Would you say it's a "troll" thread because you think Rizwan wipes the floor with Chanderpaul in white ball cricket?

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Good post although Rizzy in T20 is underrated. Chanders never had an additional gear in whiteball (ODI only for him) and was more a stat padding accumulator. He lacked Rizwan's ability to switch gears and launch when needed. In tests he is better batsman than Riz no question. When you consider cricketers, then all aspects of the game come into play (captaincy, keeping) which some one track minds can't digest. Next someone will say Rahul is a better player in ODI than Babar and Rizwan just out of hate.

We can only judge Rizwan by the end of his career. He was a fine WK bat but batting is regressing rapidly and he is out of sorts. Leadership is nothing special at the moment as he done nothing notable as either captain or vice captain.


Shiv is a lower tier legend of the game. At Rizwans rate at the moment he won't be amongst the ATGs of the game.

 

[Rana]

We can only judge Rizwan by the end of his career. He was a fine WK bat but batting is regressing rapidly and he is out of sorts. Leadership is nothing special at the moment as he done nothing notable as either captain or vice captain.


Shiv is a lower tier legend of the game. At Rizwans rate at the moment he won't be amongst the ATGs of the game.

That’s like saying Rizwan is somewhere close to the greats but is rapidly declining from that status?

 

[DeadlyVenom]

That’s like saying Rizwan is somewhere close to the greats but is rapidly declining from that status?

I do believe he was on course to become Pakistan's greatest wicket keeper/batter for sure but both Kamran and Safraz were also flying at one point then declined. If Rizwan continues to decline by the end of his career he may end up behind Safraz.

 

[ravisurya]

Would Chanderpaul be able to survive that devastating spell by O’Rourke at Hamilton?

Probably gotten out 26 times in 25 balls.

 

[mominsaigol]

You guys are underestimating Chanderpaul. He's literally one of the most consistent batsmen of his era. He's not an upper tier atg as like @Hitman said 40 avg and 80 SR was the gold standard while Chanderpaul avg 40 but his sr is 70 implying he was more of a consistent support batter to Lara which he was.

But that doesn't mean he's avg like some people here are claiming, A defo ATG, just not Sachin, ponting and Lara level.

 

[RizwanT20Champ]

I already said it made a mistake, and acknowledged it. You can keep grinding me on that mistake if you wish however none of it will change the fact that Babar and rizwan are finished in whiteball.

They were finished before they ever reached a peak.

Babar at his absolute peak was a slightly better odi batter then Joe root but currently he's a circus clown, someone like KG or saud wouldn't do any worse then Babar atm.

Rizwan at his absolute peak is a better wk batter then sarfraz Ahmed and probably better then all our wk batters except maybe Kamran Akmal although KA was inconsistent. However rizwan on current form is worse then they are by miles.

2014-2017 sarfi is better then current rizzu as a batsmen.

Mistake? LOL! You made up winners of 2 ICC tournaments, that's not a mistake especially based on your track record...Sachin SF 2003 vs Pak, "Pointing 2007 semi", Babar 1 away century, Rohit 2011 WC... list is long bro.

Babar wipes the floor with your HTB Head in ODIs and Rizzu and Babar play on tracks where your hero averages in the 20s. Show some respect.

 

[Cover Drive Six]

right-handed king of leg-swingers

I like this wording

 

[Local.Dada]

The comparison is not as ridiculous as it is made out to be

Chanderpaul, Rizwan both have unorthodox techniques that are not aesthetically pleasing to the eye but effective.

Chanderpaul and Rizwan both part of middle tier teams in their respective eras with decent bowling or 1-2 good players in the side that can compete and beat good teams on their day.

Chanderpaul and Rizwan both have their own technique and scoring areas that is ugly but effective.

Both had to play lone warrior innings many times to give respectablity to their side.

Both are the glue that holds together the team. Chanderpaul had proven performer Lara , an upcoming young Gayle and 2-3 good pacers. Rizwan has proven Babar, upcoming Agha and 2-3 good bowlers in his side.

Chanderpaul did that in red ball so he probably gets more respect. Those kind of performances in odi series or white ball don’t get the same respect so Rizwan’s efforts are downplayed.

I rate test cricket as real cricket so here is my 7 step analysis on this subject

1.Red ball- Chanderpaul >> Rizwan
2.White ball- Rizwan > Chanderpaul
3.Utility (fielding, keeping; bowling)- Rizwan > Chanderpaul
4.Quality of bowling faced- Chanderpaul > Rizwan
5.Playing with a weaker team- Rizwan = Chanderpaul
6.Captaincy/ leadership- Rizwan > Chanderpaul
7.Overall temparament- Chanderpaul > Rizwan (only marginally)

Overall my verdict- Chanderpaul > Rizwan

 

[Rana]

Chanderpaul, Rizwan both have unorthodox techniques that are not aesthetically pleasing to the eye but effective.

How has Chanderpaul have the same kind of unorthodox technique that Rizwan has in his batting?

Do you know who Harmison is? Can Rizwan score runs like this against a bowler of this caliber?

 

[mominsaigol]

How has Chanderpaul have the same kind of unorthodox technique that Rizwan has in his batting?

Do you know who Harmison is? Can Rizwan score runs like this against a bowler of this caliber?

Chanderpaul should be compared to Steve Smith, Aka awkward stance but a very solid all round batsmen.

Rizwan is techincally limited, he can't play on the offside period.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Chanderpaul should be compared to Steve Smith, Aka awkward stance but a very solid all round batsmen.

Rizwan is techincally limited, he can't play on the offside period.

Chanders and Fawad Alan are similar. Steve is pretty orthodox in comparison.

 

[ravisurya]

Would Chanderpaul be able to survive that devastating spell by O’Rourke at Hamilton?

Probably gotten out 26 times in 2

The comparison is not as ridiculous as it is made out to be

Chanderpaul, Rizwan both have unorthodox techniques that are not aesthetically pleasing to the eye but effective.

Chanderpaul and Rizwan both part of middle tier teams in their respective eras with decent bowling or 1-2 good players in the side that can compete and beat good teams on their day.

Chanderpaul and Rizwan both have their own technique and scoring areas that is ugly but effective.

Both had to play lone warrior innings many times to give respectablity to their side.

Both are the glue that holds together the team. Chanderpaul had proven performer Lara , an upcoming young Gayle and 2-3 good pacers. Rizwan has proven Babar, upcoming Agha and 2-3 good bowlers in his side.

Chanderpaul did that in red ball so he probably gets more respect. Those kind of performances in odi series or white ball don’t get the same respect so Rizwan’s efforts are downplayed.

I rate test cricket as real cricket so here is my 7 step analysis on this subject

1.Red ball- Chanderpaul >> Rizwan
2.White ball- Rizwan > Chanderpaul
3.Utility (fielding, keeping; bowling)- Rizwan > Chanderpaul
4.Quality of bowling faced- Chanderpaul > Rizwan
5.Playing with a weaker team- Rizwan = Chanderpaul
6.Captaincy/ leadership- Rizwan > Chanderpaul
7.Overall temparament- Chanderpaul > Rizwan (only marginally)

Overall my verdict- Chanderpaul > Rizwan

How is Rizwan a better white ball batsman, and btw Chanderpaul could bowl and was a gun fielder. Seriously this is a ridiculous comparison at all levels.

 

[Markhor]

How has Chanderpaul have the same kind of unorthodox technique that Rizwan has in his batting?

Do you know who Harmison is? Can Rizwan score runs like this against a bowler of this caliber?

Here's a gem from 2002. Shiv batting with one arm to take WI over the line vs Stephen Fleming's NZ.

So much nostalgia here. When bilateral cricket meant something !

 

[mominsaigol]

Chanders and Fawad Alan are similar. Steve is pretty orthodox in comparison.

Both smith, Fawad and Chanderpaul shuffle across, However fawad and Chanderpaul like to hold a weird pose before quickly switching and shuffling before the bowler comes onto bowl.

My guess is it's to distrust line and length and to distract the bowler as the shuffle last minute slightly before realese so the bowler can't really adjust.

Smith doesn't pose but he does shuffle across.

 

[shaz619]

Chanderpaul got to no.1 in the Test rankings during his last couple of tours, I think it was in England during one of our wettest/darkest early british summers, this was past his prime, he carried the WI batting and deserves similar respect as Lara for being that beacon for the Islands. Comparing Rizwan to this ATG is like suggesting any off the street was better then Chanderpaul just because of the way he bats, and played some iconic knocks in limited overs to outside his comfort zone, as for the other, we don’t really know if he even has a pair.

 

[hoshiarpurexpress]

He still left Pak in a good position, the useless lower order failed. What did Tendulker do in 100th century vs BD? in 2 WC finals? Anyone can twist stats to suit their narrative.

Lol.. Tendulkar Kahan se aa Gaya.. Tendulkar has 100 centuries some did not get the wins. Here Rizwan plays all innings super slow mode and run rate increases and then get gets out. Rizwan is the worst player to even play for Pakistan given his shenanigans.

 

[TheSultan]

Better white ball batsmen. Why would we even compare t20is. Shiv barely played any.

Compare ODIs if you want, I would have liked to see Rizwan dancing at no4 in the 90s. Meat and drink to the pacers of that time.

 

[hoshiarpurexpress]

Rizwan is a very very limited player. And the more he plays the more he gets exposed. We saw his 27 ball dance. Even some of Zimbabwe players have better technique then this guy. How the hell is this guy captain of a legacy defining major cricket team baffles my mind.

 

[hafizexpress]

This is almost as ridiculous as Misbah vs Inzimam on this website

 

[Rana]

This is almost as ridiculous as Misbah vs Inzimam on this website

@Major believes Misbah was better

 

[Rana]

What do you mean by Chanderpaul was never an ODI batter? Are you a new cricket fan?

Well done sweep shot.

Tunn ke rakh isko! He’s a new cricket fan like Mamoon who claims he watched cricket in the 90s!

 

[topspin]

This is almost as ridiculous as Misbah vs Inzimam on this website

I assume you are referring to that thread where Major was exposed for his views on this comparison?

 

[Rana]

Both born in Mianwali and he's another Niazi. Could be a distant relative since Misbah claims IK is one of those.

There is definitely a link and Major has been trying to run secret campaigns for him,

Major was p*ssed off when KK announced Warner as their captain. He claimed that they should have made someone young and who could have lead them for a few years to come. We all know about Major’s off the mark views on white ball cricket, but I tried to understand why he seemed so peeved and then realised that he was hoping for them to make Niazi the captain. I can read this guy and his intentions the way Chapman becomes Slapman for all Pakistan bowlers who think they are smart.

 

[topspin]

There is definitely a link and Major has been trying to run secret campaigns for him,

Major was p*ssed off when KK announced Warner as their captain. He claimed that they should have made someone young and who could have lead them for a few years to come. We all know about Major’s off the mark views on white ball cricket, but I tried to understand why he seemed so peeved and then realised that he was hoping for them to make Niazi the captain. I can read this guy and his intentions the way Chapman becomes Slapman for all Pakistan bowlers who think they are smart.

Ah now it makes sense. What a sly little weasel. I remember him running a campaign against Warner's captaincy by bringing up his "past", which absolutely has no relevance to his batting credentials and what he has to offer as a leader.

Major obviously wanted Niazi to captain the side.

 

[daytrader]

There is definitely a link and Major has been trying to run secret campaigns for him,

Major was p*ssed off when KK announced Warner as their captain. He claimed that they should have made someone young and who could have lead them for a few years to come. We all know about Major’s off the mark views on white ball cricket, but I tried to understand why he seemed so peeved and then realised that he was hoping for them to make Niazi the captain. I can read this guy and his intentions the way Chapman becomes Slapman for all Pakistan bowlers who think they are smart.

No different from the campaigns you've been running. You used the same arguments against Rizwan and Babar being captains for their respective PSL sides. Why the double standards for not wanting a younger captain for KK?

 

[topspin]

No different from the campaigns you've been running. You used the same arguments against Rizwan and Babar being captains for their respective PSL sides. Why the double standards for not wanting a younger captain for KK?

There is a difference between a campaign for justice and a campaign for frauds. You and Major fall into the latter, knowingly or unknowingly.

 

[daytrader]

There is a difference between a campaign for justice and a campaign for frauds. You and Major fall into the latter, knowingly or unknowingly.

You don't even know what a conflict of interest it yet here you are talking about justice. Stick to maths bhai

 

[RizwanT20Champ]

ODI only comparison so please don't talk about tests or whatever.

ODI

As all round players:

Shiv - Good accumulator in a different era as batsman. Not much else as value as a player
Rizzy - Good Accumulator in tough conditions who holds the line up together at 4, biggest difference is his extra gear compared to Shiv and ability to launch when set. Excellent keeper and good captain to boot. Overall as a player he is easily better than Chanders in ODI. Purely as a bat he is slightly better than Shiv because of the extra gear in ODIs.

In tests, Shiv is a better batsman no question.

 

[hassan918]

I don't think it is fair to compare two batter of two different eras. ODI cricket in Shiv playing days was very different from ODI cricket in these days. In those days a score of 250 was considered a good total and in these days even a 350 total is considered a par score.

 

[Rana]

I don't think it is fair to compare two batter of two different eras. ODI cricket in Shiv playing days was very different from ODI cricket in these days. In those days a score of 250 was considered a good total and in these days even a 350 total is considered a par score.

But Rizwan wants 250 to be a good score in this day and age. So the comparison is valid.

 

[hassan918]

But Rizwan wants 250 to be a good score in this day and age. So the comparison is valid.

No wonder we are getting thrashed by New Zealand with our captain has such mentality.

 

[Rana]

No wonder we are getting thrashed by New Zealand with our captain has such mentality.

This is just the beginning. And this is your own doing as a nation. Appointing this man as captain, we kept warning you that its a backward step considering the demands of modern cricket.

 

[topspin]

You don't even know what a conflict of interest it yet here you are talking about justice. Stick to maths bhai

Rich coming from someone, who shares the same corrupt mentality that Misbah has and not to forget you have run campaigns against 3 players (Wasim Akram, Younis Khan and Shoaib Akhtar), who are among our legends and ATGs. I will not be taking lectures on justice when you do nothing but bring the cricketing equivalent of fitna on this forum.

It has been widely documented how he abused his powers for his self gain, not just as a committee member of the PCB but also in the PSL. But your blind following is such that if Misbah came up with his own branded turd, you would buy it and consume it rather than be truthful about your cult leaders.

 

[daytrader]

Rich coming from someone, who shares the same corrupt mentality that Misbah has and not to forget you have run campaigns against 3 players (Wasim Akram, Younis Khan and Shoaib Akhtar), who are among our legends and ATGs. I will not be taking lectures on justice when you do nothing but bring the cricketing equivalent of fitna on this forum.

It has been widely documented how he abused his powers for his self gain, not just as a committee member of the PCB but also in the PSL. But your blind following is such that if Misbah came up with his own branded turd, you would buy it and consume it rather than be truthful about your cult leaders.

Misbah ah ah ah

So desperate to malign one person.

 

[RizwanT20Champ]

Rich coming from someone, who shares the same corrupt mentality that Misbah has and not to forget you have run campaigns against 3 players (Wasim Akram, Younis Khan and Shoaib Akhtar), who are among our legends and ATGs. I will not be taking lectures on justice when you do nothing but bring the cricketing equivalent of fitna on this forum.

It has been widely documented how he abused his powers for his self gain, not just as a committee member of the PCB but also in the PSL. But your blind following is such that if Misbah came up with his own branded turd, you would buy it and consume it rather than be truthful about your cult leaders.

I like Shoaib but he's not ATG, bloke does not even have 200 test wickets. It's worse than calling Bumrah ATG. Nowhere near enough longevity. And let's not pretend Wasim Akram has no demons in his closet - or YK for that matter. We don't need to open that can of worms.

 

[mominsaigol]

I never claimed he’s an ATG, you need to re-read the post.

You have built a reputation of twisting words and fabricating stories. You also did this regarding Babar’s away test tons.



It’s important to understand the context here.

I’m well aware of their past. The issue I have here is that someone who supports a mediocre player, like Misbah, is disrespecting our best players.

He always does this, twists other posters words and then directly attacks the poster themsleves rather then addressing the argument at hand.

No one considers sohaib an ATG however given Pakistan's pace options, he's right up their.

Pakistan has had 2 tier 1 ATG pacers in wasim and Imran with Waqar being a tier 2 ATG.

Everyone else like Umar Gul, Sohaib Akhtar come in the next category.

 

[mominsaigol]

In odi cricket as batsmen and bowlers this is the tier list (not going to list all of them, just giving an idea)

Odi batters

Tier 1: Ponting, Lara, Sachin, Kohli, Viv
Tier 2: Hayden, Martyn, Gilly, Jaysuria etc etc Sangakara, Rohit, Sehwag, Dhoni, Gayle, Inzimam, Saeed Anwar, Guptil, Brendon Mccullum, David Warner etc etc
Tier 3: Root, Chanderpaul, Steve Smith, Dilshan, Yousaf, Dravid, Hashim Amla etc etc
Tier 4: Williamson, Sheryas, Inglis, Carey, Maxwell, Ben stokes etc etc

The rest are all avg and forgettable batters, Misbah and rizwan aren't anywhere close to any of these tiers. Theirs obviously more then I didn't include and I can't include as the list would be too long,

Such as QDK who'd be be in Tier 2, De villers who'd be in Tier 1 etc etc

 

[gazza619]

How can a wicketkeeper batter be compared to a genuine batter. Beyond me.