Mohammed Rizwan vs Kamran Akmal - Who gets into a Pakistani ATG T20I?

[Rana]

Samantha Jaysuriya

Average of 23 with a sr of 129 at international level

Is Rizwan better than Jaysuriya too?

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Mohammad Rizwan’s achievements in the eyes of his fans: Baatain croro ki

Mohammad Rizwan’s achievements as of now in the standings of world champions of pasr and present: Dukaan Pakoro Ki

Seems clear to me that you have nothing to say. Otherwise you wouldn't be resorting to: aien, baien, shaien

 

[Rana]

Seems clear to me that you have nothing to say. Otherwise you wouldn't be resorting to: aien, baien, shaien

What i have said is true though. Its not like you have acknowledged it. Instead you have just mocked more world champions in your pursuit of a forced Rizwan supremacy

Some more harsh facts to follow...

 

[Rana]

Rizwan fans are playing a very dangerous game with the argument that his average and consistency trumps many current and former players of the game. To discredit a world champion due to his largely inferior average and strike rate to a statspadding Rizwan opens the door to many more questions. Was Rizwan a far superior and better opener/Batsman than the following players (average/Strike rates):

Virender Sehwag: 22 @145
Gautam Gambhir: 27 @119
Greame Smith: 31 @127
Hershelle Gibbs: 18.2 @125
Chris Gayle: 28 @137
Tilkaratne Dilshan: 28 @121
Sanath Jayasuriya: 23 @129

These were the kind of stats and these were the big names Kamran was competing against during his time as a T20 player/opener for Pakistan. You really have to be bold and say Rizwan is a far superior player than all of these names if you want to play this game of stats

 

[Dr_Bassim]

Kamran was pretty useless because when he was scoring he was dropping many a catch too. Sure, he was great to watch but he only had a handful of innings to show in his imbecile career.

Rizwan is most boring batsmen I have ever seen. Sure, he has stats. But his runs have zero impact on the game (this may change in future and I will change my opinion). In the match he didn't play Pakistan still managed 170 and if he had played Pakistan would have managed same.

Rizwan probably takes it in stats and Kami probably has more impact for Pakistan so far which is why Kami might shade it but Rizwan can play a glorious knock in WT20 and leave Kami in dust.

 

[Rana]

Kamran was pretty useless because when he was scoring he was dropping many a catch too. Sure, he was great to watch but he only had a handful of innings to show in his imbecile career.

Rizwan is most boring batsmen I have ever seen. Sure, he has stats. But his runs have zero impact on the game (this may change in future and I will change my opinion). In the match he didn't play Pakistan still managed 170 and if he had played Pakistan would have managed same.

Rizwan probably takes it in stats and Kami probably has more impact for Pakistan so far which is why Kami might shade it but Rizwan can play a glorious knock in WT20 and leave Kami in dust.

This is my point too

But Rizwan fans do not want to take it on board and are discrediting the glory that comes with being a world champion. Clearly it’s Rizwan over Pakistan for them

 

[PakEngFan]

It’s not even a comparison. Rizwan is already Pakistan greatest wicket keeper by far and he hasn’t even played as much as drop machine akmal. An average of 20 odd after 100s of games and a strike rate comfortably lower then Rizwan too.

 

[IMMY69]

I see this thread is still going....

A question for the statisticians...

What Is Rizwan's strike rate after the scores moves past 100?

I know its not an easy question but it explains many things. For example, we have a non existent middle order, when the top two are out, the team more often not collapses or at best gets the team to a par total.

The point about the lack of any reliable middle order batters brings us to Kamran. Compare the middle orders of the team that Kamran played in vs the middle order we have now. The strike rates of those middle order batsmen as opposed to the ones that are playing now. In fact, when you look at the current middle order you can and should also take in to account the average. Not only are the stroke rates low but they don't even have an average to talk about, i.e. zero output.

Really when you break it down, Rizwan (and Barber) are the only two batsmen who are keeping Pakistan Cricket somewhat competitive and when you take everything in to account I'm amazed that anyone can argue that Kamran was a better opener then Rizwan in T20's.

 

[Rana]

I see this thread is still going....

A question for the statisticians...

What Is Rizwan's strike rate after the scores moves past 100?

I know its not an easy question but it explains many things. For example, we have a non existent middle order, when the top two are out, the team more often not collapses or at best gets the team to a par total.

The point about the lack of any reliable middle order batters brings us to Kamran. Compare the middle orders of the team that Kamran played in vs the middle order we have now. The strike rates of those middle order batsmen as opposed to the ones that are playing now. In fact, when you look at the current middle order you can and should also take in to account the average. Not only are the stroke rates low but they don't even have an average to talk about, i.e. zero output.

Really when you break it down, Rizwan (and Barber) are the only two batsmen who are keeping Pakistan Cricket somewhat competitive and when you take everything in to account I'm amazed that anyone can argue that Kamran was a better opener then Rizwan in T20's.

This thread will keep going and remain valid until Rizwan actually achieves more than Kamran did as an international cricketer.

#silverware

 

[IMMY69]

This thread will keep going and remain valid until Rizwan actually achieves more than Kamran did as an international cricketer.

#silverware

You have a get out... Just say you were trolling and laugh it off.

 

[PakEngFan]

I see this thread is still going....

A question for the statisticians...

What Is Rizwan's strike rate after the scores moves past 100?

I know its not an easy question but it explains many things. For example, we have a non existent middle order, when the top two are out, the team more often not collapses or at best gets the team to a par total.

The point about the lack of any reliable middle order batters brings us to Kamran. Compare the middle orders of the team that Kamran played in vs the middle order we have now. The strike rates of those middle order batsmen as opposed to the ones that are playing now. In fact, when you look at the current middle order you can and should also take in to account the average. Not only are the stroke rates low but they don't even have an average to talk about, i.e. zero output.

Really when you break it down, Rizwan (and Barber) are the only two batsmen who are keeping Pakistan Cricket somewhat competitive and when you take everything in to account I'm amazed that anyone can argue that Kamran was a better opener then Rizwan in T20's.

They are blind haters nothing else. On top they have no clue about cricket.

 

[Rana]

You have a get out... Just say you were trolling and laugh it off.

How can I be trolling if I’m stating facts? How can telling the truth be considered trolling? Has Rizwan won an ICC World Cup? Has Kamran Akmal? Have both played as Wicket Keeper batsmen for their country?

 

[shaz619]

Bro come on, you can't be serious. This is the guy who cost us the only real opportunity to win a test in Australia in this millennium by repeatedly giving Michael Hussey chance after chance in the 2009 Sydney test. He is the guy who gave Ross Taylor multiple birthday gifts in the 2011 World Cup match until he put Shoaib Akhtar to the sword and closed the book on his career. The amount of frustration this man has given me just because of his atrocious wicket-keeping is something I will never forget. And as far as I am concerned he is the standard bearer for being the worst wicket-keeper batter you can have in your side.

His peak is very short and not nearly enough to take him seriously as a keeper or a batter.

Rizwan for me had eclipsed him two years ago just based on his keeping ability, which is excellent. Now Rizwan is in an entirely different stratosphere as compared as compared to Butterfingers.

I respect your view and I am in total agreement when it came to his exploits as a deplorable human being and his performances in Tests/ODI’s were horrific to say the least.

But relative to his competitors in his day and also for Pak cricket when it came to T20I’s, I felt he justified his place in the side and had more notable performances compared to other forms and I do have a tiny soft spot for the world championship winning team of 09, Kamran did ok in the follow up tournament to, he was among top scorers for Pak in both WC’s. I do agree he should have achieved more, but after his decline T20’s more suited to his style of play and he often took pressure of the middle order in those days even with some brief cameos.

I wont disagree with anyone who prefers Riswan in this form and I think I would to, but when I thought of this comparison it wasn’t so straightforward in my mind when I took myself back to the late 2000’s / early 2010’s

 

[shaz619]

Am a big Rizwan fan many know this and while it may seem like blasphemy given the support he has (rightly) I don’t think the comparison with Kamran in T20’s is diabolical, maybe it will one day. But these two are the best keeper bats Pak ever had in T20’s so there’s that

 

[Waleed93]

If World Cup wins decided which player is better than another one :

David Villa > Cristiano Ronaldo.
Adrien Rabiot > Johan Cruyff.
Antoine Griezmann > Lionel Messi.

Ramiz Raja > Rohit Sharma.
Sreesanth > Shoaib Akhtar.

One of the worst ever keeper-batsman to play for Pakistan > Arguably the best ever keeper-batsman to play for Pakistan.

 

[Rana]

If World Cup wins decided which player is better than another one :

David Villa > Cristiano Ronaldo.
Adrien Rabiot > Johan Cruyff.
Antoine Griezmann > Lionel Messi.

Ramiz Raja > Rohit Sharma.
Sreesanth > Shoaib Akhtar.

One of the worst ever keeper-batsman to play for Pakistan > Arguably the best ever keeper-batsman to play for Pakistan.

Even without the World Cup

Kamran Akmal is a superior T20i batsman to Mohammad Rizwan. Stats mean nothing

 

[IMMY69]

How can I be trolling if I’m stating facts? How can telling the truth be considered trolling? Has Rizwan won an ICC World Cup? Has Kamran Akmal? Have both played as Wicket Keeper batsmen for their country?

So you didn't take my advice then...
Never mind..

 

[IMMY69]

Am a big Rizwan fan many know this and while it may seem like blasphemy given the support he has (rightly) I don’t think the comparison with Kamran in T20’s is diabolical, maybe it will one day. But these two are the best keeper bats Pak ever had in T20’s so there’s that

My friend, if we go by stats then Rizwan is head and shoulders above Kamran.
Even the argument about Kamran playing in a different era when strike rates were lower is disproved.
Why? Because Rizwan is playing at a time when there is no middle order whereas Kamran played during a time when we had middle order batsman who could actually bat.

Leave alone the fact that Kamran was utterly useless behind the wickets.

 

[Rana]

So you didn't take my advice then...
Never mind..

What do you mean? Advice for what? What will happen if I don’t listen to you?

 

[Rana]

My friend, if we go by stats then Rizwan is head and shoulders above Kamran.
Even the argument about Kamran playing in a different era when strike rates were lower is disproved.
Why? Because Rizwan is playing at a time when there is no middle order whereas Kamran played during a time when we had middle order batsman who could actually bat.

Leave alone the fact that Kamran was utterly useless behind the wickets.

Why is Rizwan playing at a time when there is no middle order?

The answer to that question is…

BECAUSE HE IS THE FAILURE IN MIDDLE ORDER

 

[Rana]

A major reason to Ajmal and Afridi’s success was Kamran Akmal behind the stumps

So that also debunks the theory that he was utterly useless

 

[IMMY69]

What do you mean? Advice for what? What will happen if I don’t listen to you?

What will happen?
Well the fact that you ask just makes the point for me.

But here it is..

You're just making yourself look stupid..

 

[Rana]

What will happen?
Well the fact that you ask just makes the point for me.

But here it is..

You're just making yourself look stupid..

Oh thank God there isn’t a sniper outside of my house waiting for me to leave the premises

 

[Waleed93]

Even without the World Cup

Kamran Akmal is a superior T20i batsman to Mohammad Rizwan. Stats mean nothing

And yet, the only argument you have been able to churn out so far is Kamran being part of a WC winning squad.

Stats don't matter, average doesn't matter, strike doesn't matter, runs scored in team victories don't matter, and still Kamran is a better T20I batsman than Rizwan even without the WC.

 

[Pakpak]

Trophies are won by teams. This thread is about his ability as a T20 player. Something you don't seem to fully understand considering you were referencing his ODI stats not too long ago.

Also you saying 'his fans' implies that the people who like him are somehow in the minority. Whereas, its the opposite. It's his haters and detractors that are in the minority.

Also, it doesn't take a genius to deduce the fact that a guy with a Bradmanesque T20I average of 21, a SR of 114 as opener cannot even be compared to a guy with a T20I batting average of 52, a SR of 132 as opener and 21 50+ scores to his name (in just two years).


Kamran Akmal scored 5 fifties in his entire T20I career. Whereas Rizwan scored 4 fifty plus scores in just the last series lmao. That's how far apart these two are as T20 batters. Don't even get me started on wicket-keeping.

Pwanage

I have to believe Rana is trolling here, otherwise liking Akmal over Rizwan doesn't make ANY sense

 

[PakEngFan]

And yet, the only argument you have been able to churn out so far is Kamran being part of a WC winning squad. ��

Stats don't matter, average doesn't matter, strike doesn't matter, runs scored in team victories don't matter, and still Kamran is a better T20I batsman than Rizwan even without the WC.��

Lol. This is pure comic relief. I mean we know he hates rizwan but at least use some logic. Key word some logic.

 

[Waleed93]

Lol. This is pure comic relief. I mean we know he hates rizwan but at least use some logic. Key word some logic.

He has been exposed several times on this thread, and continues to find a way to reach a new level of dumbness.

 

[Dr_Bassim]

I agree with Rana.

Stats and SR matter less but impact matters more.

Are u telling me since Rizwan has a better average than Gilchrist in T20, he is better than Gilchrist?

 

[Rana]

He has been exposed several times on this thread, and continues to find a way to reach a new level of dumbness.

I haven’t been exposed at all…unless you mean I have been exposed as someone who speaks facts?

 

[Rana]

I agree with Rana.

Stats and SR matter less but impact matters more.

Are u telling me since Rizwan has a better average than Gilchrist in T20, he is better than Gilchrist?

To Rizwan fans, yes

There is another stratosphere which Redwood has alluded to. In that Stratosphere Rizwan is the GOAT for Rizwan fans

 

[Rana]

Adam Gilchrist T20i stats:

Average= 22
strike rate= 141

Gilchrist’s domestic T20 stats:

Average=27
Strike rate= 140

Rizwan has twice the average of Gilchrist. Maybe he is twice the player Gilchrist is at T20 level?

 

[kukkad kamaal]

That Gilchrist stat is surprising for me.

 

[Dr_Bassim]

That Gilchrist stat is surprising for me.

Because T20 is all about impact.

A terrible Afridi would have more impact than Rizwan.

So would have Romesh Kaluwitharana

 

[Rana]

If we could swap Babar/Rizwan for Rajapaksa

I know I would take it and run! [MENTION=43242]Dr_Bassim[/MENTION]

 

[kukkad kamaal]

Also, for Rizwan fans, SKY is overrated.

 

[Zaz]

Ppers would take rana a bit more seriously if he didnt let his hate for rizwan and babar impair his judgment

Im sorry to say just like akmals keeping and batting Rana isnt being taken seriously anymore

 

[Rana]

Ppers would take rana a bit more seriously if he didnt let his hate for rizwan and babar impair his judgment

Im sorry to say just like akmals keeping and batting Rana isnt being taken seriously anymore

Ppers?

You mean Rizwan fans?

Anyone taking me seriously or non-seriously here doesn’t pay my bills

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

What i have said is true though. Its not like you have acknowledged it. Instead you have just mocked more world champions in your pursuit of a forced Rizwan supremacy

Some more harsh facts to follow...

I did acknowledge it by asking you a question to you completely ignored...probably because you knew that it would expose your baseless, troll-worthy argument.

At the end of the day, you can cry all you want. Rizwan's T20I numbers are arguably the greatest in the history of the format for a player who has played 50+ matches. He is the No.1 T20I batter in the world. His level of consistency in this format is unreal and bears few comparisons (if any) and if that's not all, he is also one of the very best wicket-keepers in the world whose glovework is almost always immaculate and spotless.

Most people here have stopped taking anything you say about Rizwan seriously. And I think its time for me to follow suit because you're just trolling. This is not a serious debate.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Pwanage

I have to believe Rana is trolling here, otherwise liking Akmal over Rizwan doesn't make ANY sense

I'd say he is crutching at straws. But even that would be an overstatement.

 

[Rana]

I did acknowledge it by asking you a question to you completely ignored...probably because you knew that it would expose your baseless, troll-worthy argument.

At the end of the day, you can cry all you want. Rizwan's T20I numbers are arguably the greatest in the history of the format for a player who has played 50+ matches. He is the No.1 T20I batter in the world. His level of consistency in this format is unreal and bears few comparisons (if any) and if that's not all, he is also one of the very best wicket-keepers in the world whose glovework is almost always immaculate and spotless.

Most people here have stopped taking anything you say about Rizwan seriously. And I think its time for me to follow suit because you're just trolling. This is not a serious debate.

So I shouldn’t get involved in any discussion (not initiated by me) on the subject of Rizwan and invited by the OP to express my view?

Why then do you even mention me in your responses if you don’t take my views seriously on the subject?

I don’t call out people who have an alternative view to mines. I’m simply refuting arguments on a cricketing basis.

You are all looking clueless in this debate and are getting overtly emotional. Not that I care, I’m enjoying watching all of you implode and get personal with me.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I respect your view and I am in total agreement when it came to his exploits as a deplorable human being and his performances in Tests/ODI’s were horrific to say the least.

But relative to his competitors in his day and also for Pak cricket when it came to T20I’s, I felt he justified his place in the side and had more notable performances compared to other forms and I do have a tiny soft spot for the world championship winning team of 09, Kamran did ok in the follow up tournament to, he was among top scorers for Pak in both WC’s. I do agree he should have achieved more, but after his decline T20’s more suited to his style of play and he often took pressure of the middle order in those days even with some brief cameos.

I wont disagree with anyone who prefers Riswan in this form and I think I would to, but when I thought of this comparison it wasn’t so straightforward in my mind when I took myself back to the late 2000’s / early 2010’s

Agree to disagree bro. Few players have made my blood boil as much as Kamran Akmal. I will NEVER forgive him for the 2009 Sydney Test. There are a few matches that have scarred me as a fan. There's the 2007 T20 WC final...the 2010 T20 WC SF against Australia...and then there's the 2009 Sydney Test.

As much as those first two hurt, I can look past them and bury the trauma they gave me deep down, because they were T20s. And we won a World Cup in 2009. But that Sydney test was our only real opportunity to win a test in Australia since 1995. And this idiot cost us that match not once but repeatedly. And that's just the biggest eff up of his career. There is a mountain of other eff ups (big and small) that cancel out any positive knocks he has played over his career.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

So I shouldn’t get involved in any discussion (not initiated by me) on the subject of Rizwan and invited by the OP to express my view?

Why then do you even mention me in your responses if you don’t take my views seriously on the subject?

I don’t call out people who have an alternative view to mines. I’m simply refuting arguments on a cricketing basis.

You are all looking clueless in this debate and are getting overtly emotional. Not that I care, I’m enjoying watching all of you implode and get personal with me.

Sure bro, everyone here is emotional and deluded. Only you are right. You, the guy who has made a grand total of one point in this debate: that Rizwan is not a World Champion, and Kamran Akmal is.

All you have done in this entire debate is duck and dodge and ignore and then you have the gall to paint yourself as some kind of victim that was attacked?

Nah bro. It doesn't work like that. Don't come up with bad takes that have zero basis in reality if you don't want people to call you out. Instead of dancing around childish strawman arguments that nobody here is buying or taking seriously, just admit that you dislike Rizwan. Atleast then we'll have some respect for you for being honest.

 

[shamaan]

I agree with Rana.

Stats and SR matter less but impact matters more.

Are u telling me since Rizwan has a better average than Gilchrist in T20, he is better than Gilchrist?

Do you know how many games he played ?

 

[Rana]

Do you know how many games he played ?

He played close to a hundred T20 domestic matches and his stats were close to his international ones

 

[Rana]

Sure bro, everyone here is emotional and deluded. Only you are right. You, the guy who has made a grand total of one point in this debate: that Rizwan is not a World Champion, and Kamran Akmal is.

All you have done in this entire debate is duck and dodge and ignore and then you have the gall to paint yourself as some kind of victim that was attacked?

Nah bro. It doesn't work like that. Don't come up with bad takes that have zero basis in reality if you don't want people to call you out. Instead of dancing around childish strawman arguments that nobody here is buying or taking seriously, just admit that you dislike Rizwan. Atleast then we'll have some respect for you for being honest.

Ok brother

To you is your belief and to me is mine.

 

[Pakpak]

Absurd comparisons with Gilchrist by Akmal trolls by claiming are we saying is Rizwan better because of 'stats' vs Gilly in T20?

Gilchrist is an ATG who didn't get to play enough T20s. However it can be reasonable to assume, from his excellent ODI reputation, that he would have bettered 99% of the batsmen in T20s had he played more than 13 games. Even if he wouldn't, 13 games aren't big enough a sample so the entire comparison is moot.

What isn't moot is Rizwan bettering 'Kami's' career 50 plus scores in one series With a better SR to boot.

This comparison is so insane, its no wonder only 2 people here are still blithering about it arguing for Akmal.

 

[Rana]

Absurd comparisons with Gilchrist by Akmal trolls by claiming are we saying is Rizwan better because of 'stats' vs Gilly in T20?

Gilchrist is an ATG who didn't get to play enough T20s. However it can be reasonable to assume, from his excellent ODI reputation, that he would have bettered 99% of the batsmen in T20s had he played more than 13 games. Even if he wouldn't, 13 games aren't big enough a sample so the entire comparison is moot.

What isn't moot is Rizwan bettering 'Kami's' career 50 plus scores in one series With a better SR to boot.

This comparison is so insane, its no wonder only 2 people here are still blithering about it arguing for Akmal.

What are you even trying to say? Is Rizwan better than Gilchrist or not?

 

[Ashmal]

Do you know how many games he played ?

Grand total of 13 and that too in 2007-08 when T20Is wasn't even considered as serious cricket.

 

[Rana]

Grand total of 13 and that too in 2007-08 when T20Is wasn't even considered as serious cricket.

He took T20 seriously and played on 80 IPL games and 102 fc T20 games

His average was 27 and his strike rate was 140

That is what he would have averaged at international level had he played until his cricket retirement

 

[shamaan]

He played close to a hundred T20 domestic matches and his stats were close to his international ones

Don't matter he can play a billion domestic games stil doesn't make a difference.

 

[shamaan]

Grand total of 13 and that too in 2007-08 when T20Is wasn't even considered as serious cricket.

13 games isn't big enough comparison.

 

[Dr_Bassim]

Do you know how many games he played ?

What is your point ?

Gilchrist averages 27 because IF he had played as many games as Rizwan he would have averaged 50 plus?

Even Sanath Jayasuriya averages lower than Rizwan?

Now are we to assume Rizwan is a better player than Jayasuriya?

In T20 its simply about impact.

Rizwan has ZERO impact on the game.

He may help Pakistan get 160 but he wont define a WIN.

That may change in future.

But it is how it is now.

 

[Rana]

What is your point ?

Gilchrist averages 27 because IF he had played as many games as Rizwan he would have averaged 50 plus?

Even Sanath Jayasuriya averages lower than Rizwan?

Now are we to assume Rizwan is a better player than Jayasuriya?

In T20 its simply about impact.

Rizwan has ZERO impact on the game.

He may help Pakistan get 160 but he wont define a WIN.

That may change in future.

But it is how it is now.

Absolute madness

Rizwan in terms of batting style reminds me of Owais Shah. Both had a very similar release shot.

The guys mentioned with lower averages were absolute class! Gilchrist, Jaysuriya, Sehwag, Dilshan, Gayle, Smith, Gibbs, Gambhir. These guys were another level when it came to batting and that too against serious pace bowling.

Rizwan on the other hand struggles big time against high quality pacers

 

[jnaveen1980]

That Gilchrist stat is surprising for me.

The T20 game was evolving. There was no one way of playing T20. So approach varied. Not everyone was able to adapt immediately from 50 to this new format. So the strike rate during that period cannot be compared now. Also back there was just one ball used.

 

[shamaan]

What is your point ?

Gilchrist averages 27 because IF he had played as many games as Rizwan he would have averaged 50 plus?

Even Sanath Jayasuriya averages lower than Rizwan?

Now are we to assume Rizwan is a better player than Jayasuriya?

In T20 its simply about impact.

Rizwan has ZERO impact on the game.

He may help Pakistan get 160 but he wont define a WIN.

That may change in future.

But it is how it is now.

Don't come with ifs and buts come with real stats.dont change goalposts and bring other players into this conversation.

Rizwan has ZERO impact hence why he's won I believe 9 man of the match performance awards.

 

[topspin]

So I shouldn’t get involved in any discussion (not initiated by me) on the subject of Rizwan and invited by the OP to express my view?

Why then do you even mention me in your responses if you don’t take my views seriously on the subject?

I don’t call out people who have an alternative view to mines. I’m simply refuting arguments on a cricketing basis.

You are all looking clueless in this debate and are getting overtly emotional. Not that I care, I’m enjoying watching all of you implode and get personal with me.

Honestly it's become a beyond joke with how fans on here have started behaving. It's like as if the Asia Cup final never happened. It was an embarrassing loss against such an inexperienced side, who conceded 10 runs off extras before a legitimate delivery was bowled. Even with that head start, Rizwan failed so badly.

With all the bhangra we've seen since then after every time he goes past 50, you'd think he's redeemed himself and won Pakistan a tournament.

The bowling line-ups he's faced since the Asia Cup in these low stake games have been nothing to brag about.

I'm still hurting about the loss against Sri Lanka because it has shades of Mohali 2011. Another game we should have won but unlike that clash, we were clear favourites to win this game.

It was Misbah of all people who gave Rizwan the promotion for him to open the batting. His approach in his two biggest games for Pakistan (2021 WT20 SF and 2022 Asia Cup Final) was shameful and had shades of Misbah's revolting Mohali innings.

I don't understand the bhangra and overreacting from all these delusional green tinted fans and Rizwan loyalists when he's lost us a final against a below average side. Rizwan has a long way to go before he redeems himself.

 

[DRsohail]

This is a T20 comparison

Kamran>> Rizwan T20

Kamran>> Rizwan ODI

Rizwan will overtake Kamran by the end of his career as a Test match keeper/Batsman

not at all Rizwan wins in all formats.

 

[Bilal7]

Samantha Jaysuriya

Average of 23 with a sr of 129 at international level

Is Rizwan better than Jaysuriya too?

Absolutely, lol. How is this even a question?

Get your rose tinted glasses off, folks. Rizwan is far better than Kamran at both batting and keeping. Stats don't lie.

 

[Bilal7]

The T20 game has changed and the format is now at its peak. Back in 2007, teams were still figuring out how this format works and the players back then were worse than what we have today.

Kallis, Misbah, Ponting, etc would never succeed in today's T20 cricket but they did quite well back then because teams did not look to target 200 each game.

 

[Dr_Bassim]

Absolutely, lol. How is this even a question?

Get your rose tinted glasses off, folks. Rizwan is far better than Kamran at both batting and keeping. Stats don't lie.

Lol @ Rizwan better than Jayasuriya.

Jayasuriya had more impact for the world than anyone else.

He actually revolutionized the art of hitting.

With him Sri Lanka were regularly hitting 10 overs 80 to 90 runs in ODIs.

Rizwan struggles to achieve that in T20s barring a few great games.

Forget Sri Lanka, Jayasuriya epitomizes an entire generational shift.

He transcends generations.

What about Gilchrist?

Better than him too?

 

[Jazx]

If you have a strong middle order then definitely kamran as opener as he can be more destructive. But if the you have a middle order which you can't rely, than rizwan to anchor the innings though he can also play with a decent strike rate but have less capabilities than kamran as a destructor.

 

[gazza619]

Cant believe there is a 3 page thread on a well known bottler possible fixer versus an all time Pakistani great.

 

[Zaz]

Lol @ Rizwan better than Jayasuriya.

Jayasuriya had more impact for the world than anyone else.

He actually revolutionized the art of hitting.

With him Sri Lanka were regularly hitting 10 overs 80 to 90 runs in ODIs.

Rizwan struggles to achieve that in T20s barring a few great games.

Forget Sri Lanka, Jayasuriya epitomizes an entire generational shift.

He transcends generations.

What about Gilchrist?

Better than him too?

Jayasuriya didnt revolutionise anything They took an art that had been used widely before and you can say used it perfectly on the biggest stage

Greatbatch was pinch hitting for Nz in the early 90s and so was Saeed Anwar

Anyway noones comparing him with jayasuriya Rizwan is Rizwan and most pakistan fans are happy with how he is and how hes perforning

 

[AZulfi]

Rizwan ofcourse

More consistent batter and a safer catcher behind the wickets

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

Rizwan is not a better t20 opener than Sehwag/Jayasuriya, I am sure of that.

Sehwag striked at 146 and that is when he ended his t20 career in early 2010s.

He was basically a rich man's Jason Roy.

 

[Energy]

Rizwan is better than Kamran, Umar and Adnan combined.

 

[pakistani pride]

Kamran Akmal for me.
Its all about major trophy wins. Akmal won the 2009 T20 WC. Rizwan goes hiding when the team needs him in big games.

Akmal opened the in the final vs Lanka and put Pak on course for the win.

 

[Jazx]

Jayasuriya didnt revolutionise anything They took an art that had been used widely before and you can say used it perfectly on the biggest stage

Greatbatch was pinch hitting for Nz in the early 90s and so was Saeed Anwar

Anyway noones comparing him with jayasuriya Rizwan is Rizwan and most pakistan fans are happy with how he is and how hes perforning

Disagree with your comments on jayasuriya here. Yes, greatbatch started that in 92 but that was not up to the level that would change the game. Sachin started opening against New Zealand and played with almost 200 strike rate in that game but still that didn't changed the game of cricket. Anwar was good but he didn't do anything extravagant before that 96 world cup semi. It was jayasuriya who took that pinch hitting to some other level on a big stage and after that same was followed by every other team. Even anwar-sohail replicated that in semis against india. Jayasuriya just changed the course of the game in 96 world cup forever.

 

[Rana]

Silverware

Intent to win

Kamran Akmal any day of the week!

 

[Asif321]

If we look at stats . You will see Rizwan as world class and kami below average but actually story is different. Kami was match winner and played impact full innings . His short quick innings vs SA and in final at 2009 WC is better than whole career of Rizwan so far

 

[dravidthewall]

Kamran akmal head and shoulder above Rizwan.

 

[pakistanigoneaussie]

Honestly, neither, unless something changes Rizwan will remain a usless stat padder.


The cupboard is pretty damn bare and if I was picking my greatest pak t20 side id go with Umar Akmal as keeper

 

[shaz619]

How do folk feel now?

I think Harris cameos should put into light the value of KA’s cameos in the power play, on his day a quick fire 25-35 is worth its weight in gold.

Having said that, Ris is certainly stronger mentally, lets see how he bounces back from his poor form.

 

[moghul]

We have to wait till Rizwan finishes his career, who knows he might end up with a Pakistan great. Calling Kamran Akmal a Pakistan great is simply ridiculous , he won some matches and lost more for Pakistan. He was good batsman and probably the worst keeper ever played for Pakistan .

 

[GLORY OF '92]

Kami
Afridi
Hafeez
?
Razzaq
?
Shadab
Gul
Ajmal
Shaheen
Rauf

 

[GLORY OF '92]

We have to wait till Rizwan finishes his career, who knows he might end up with a Pakistan great. Calling Kamran Akmal a Pakistan great is simply ridiculous , he won some matches and lost more for Pakistan. He was good batsman and probably the worst keeper ever played for Pakistan .

Kami brought many glories to Pakistan cricket. Rizwan is nothing in comparison.

 

[Arsal_AK]

This is a joke right. Rizwan over Kamran anyday. For all the accomplishments being listed for Kamran, his numbers done really back any of them up. Let's not forget his keeping can literally lose you games on its own.

 

[Suleiman]

Kamran arguably the greatest t20 Asian keeper to arrive on these shores before M Harris, Pant in tests, Dhoni in ODIs

 

[Kianig89]

Sarfraz over Kamran butterfinger and Rizwan the faux pas

Sarfraz for ATG T20 side

 

[topspin]

Lets see how Rizwan ends his career before we rush to conclusions.

I'm sure we can all agree that we're scraping the bottom of the barrel with the wicket-keepers Pakistan have produced. They're the actually the worst. Even Zimbabwe, Afghanistan and Bangladesh have produced better wicket-keeper batsmen.