Much touted CPEC under threat due to PML-N's ineptness

[Slog]

1. Federal Government is not releasing information regarding the CPEC deals and there is total lack of transparency which is threatening the smaller provinces and may lead to reduced cooperation. The Chinese embassy in Pakistan has publicly stated that the Federal Government should release all such information.

2. Funds meant for CPEC are being redirected to projects in Punjab. Upon opposition requests for transparency and details, PML-N has been noncommittal in its responses

3. Five CPEC energy projects are likely to face the axe due to slow pace of development. The are worth US$ 7 billion approx. The projects are based in Sindh and Balochistan.

4. China has expressed its disapproval of the handling of the Gwadar projects especially the airport, laying a gas pipeline and setting up a LNG terminal in Gwadar.

5. PML-N is getting in fights with the army as to who leads the projects. Army is responsible for the security and safety of projects and workers but the federal government wants to sideline it in the projects.

Sources:

http://tribune.com.pk/story/1095957...eline-china-irked-by-delay-in-gwadar-project/
http://tribune.com.pk/story/1029155/cpec-for-punjab-or-pakistan-myth-and-reality/
http://www.dawn.com/news/1271483
http://tribune.com.pk/story/1148427/cpec-tough-road-ahead/
http://tribune.com.pk/story/1150840/senators-ask-govt-show-cpec-agreement/

 

[LowKiiSavage]

1) What sort of information you require? Planning Commission of Pakistan has all the information available.
2) No such thing is happening, only punjab CPEC's project are completing quickly because the provinical government is serious there unlike the inept PPP sindhi government.
3) They are not likely to face the axe, read the full article, government just threatened the companies that they have to complete the project otherwise they would throw them out. Simple threat tactic.
4) China has already given the grant for the airport. The LNG floating terminal is already under construction.
5) Nope.


Source:

MBL Corporate Investment in which i worked specifically on CPEC.

 

[Syed1]

The worst part is they cut some of Sindh's and Balouchistan's projects and directed the funds to Punjab projects.

This is why we need to split up Punjab into atleast two smaller provinces. Right now a political party can win 90% of their seats from Punjab and form the federal government. They can then go ahead and focus on their own province and not give a rat's behind about the other federating units because they didn't get any votes from there.

I hope and pray that PML-N is not reelected in 2018, or it gathers seats from other provinces as well, otherwise this sense of alienation will rise and it may hurt the integrity of Pakistan.

 

[Varun]

I hope and pray that PML-N is not reelected in 2018, or it gathers seats from other provinces as well, otherwise this sense of alienation will rise and it may hurt the integrity of Pakistan.

Let's be realistic. The PML (N) is hot favourites for winning 2018. The PPP are twisting in the wind and Imran Khan's stock has seriously dipped since three years ago - where he could only bag a single province any which way.

Expect to see Nawaz Sharif to be Prime Minister of Pakistan for 2018-2023 and even beyond.

 

[endymion248]

It's always Karachiites who are harping on about the failure of Gwadar and CPEC. One does wonder why. People should stop staring at their navels and think about the common good for once.

 

[Syed1]

It's always Karachiites who are harping on about the failure of Gwadar and CPEC. One does wonder why. People should stop staring at their navels and think about the common good for once.

Easy for Punjabis to say, when even the development budget of smaller Punjab cities dwarfs the development budget of Karachi.

 

[Syed1]

Let's be realistic. The PML (N) is hot favourites for winning 2018. The PPP are twisting in the wind and Imran Khan's stock has seriously dipped since three years ago - where he could only bag a single province any which way.

Expect to see Nawaz Sharif to be Prime Minister of Pakistan for 2018-2023 and even beyond.

That's why I said, I hope they win seats from other provinces as well, so that they develop those areas too and not just focus on their center of power.

 

[endymion248]

Easy for Punjabis to say, when even the development budget of smaller Punjab cities dwarfs the development budget of Karachi.

You should just be happy that Karachi was included in CPEC at all when there was no need for it. That's an actual example of self-serving lobbying.

 

[Syed1]

You should just be happy that Karachi was included in CPEC at all when there was no need for it. That's an actual example of self-serving lobbying.

So there was no need of Karachi to be in CPEC but there was need for Lahore's Metro line?

 

[endymion248]

So there was no need of Karachi to be in CPEC but there was need for Lahore's Metro line?

Lahore and Karachi are traditional examples of favoritism for all fields in Pakistan, yes. It should not be the responsibility of federal government to give them money but rather regional governments. Federal funds should go to matters of national interest like developing new or backwards towns and economic opportunities (CPEC being an example of that).

 

[enkidu_]

There's perhaps some hidden charm in remaining a Third World crap-hole, you can't blame the populace for worshipping PML Goons, but the Army should take full control of this project at least.

 

[LowKiiSavage]

So there was no need of Karachi to be in CPEC but there was need for Lahore's Metro line?

Lahore's metro line is being developed by the provincial government and not by the Fed. Its not anyone's fault that Karachities and sindhis vote for criminals like PPP and MQM. Your solution is to vote the right party. If you cannot do that, then you have no right to cry. Keep voting your local saiyeen and keep crying.

And [MENTION=132752]endymion248[/MENTION] is right, the behaviour of Karachities is very suspicious considering they are the only one that blow the regionalism trumpet.

 

[Syed1]

Lahore's metro line is being developed by the provincial government and not by the Fed. Its not anyone's fault that Karachities and sindhis vote for criminals like PPP and MQM. Your solution is to vote the right party. If you cannot do that, then you have no right to cry. Keep voting your local saiyeen and keep crying.

And [MENTION=132752]endymion248[/MENTION] is right, the behaviour of Karachities is very suspicious considering they are the only one that blow the regionalism trumpet.

Bhai jaan before going on a righteous rant you would be best served to verify that the Lahore Orange line metro is part of the CPEC and has been put it in there on the insistence of Shahbaz Sharif using his influence as the brother of the PM.

 

[LowKiiSavage]

Bhai jaan before going on a righteous rant you would be best served to verify that the Lahore Orange line metro is part of the CPEC and has been put it in there on the insistence of Shahbaz Sharif using his influence as the brother of the PM.

Yes, sir. Orange line is part of CPEC but under an agreement between provincial and Chinese government.

And why does it pains you so much that it is part of CPEC?

 

[Eagle_Eye]

Yes, sir. Orange line is part of CPEC but under an agreement between provincial and Chinese government.

And why does it pains you so much that it is part of CPEC?

Because it has no business being in there as part of CPEC.

If it can happen in Lahore, then why not other cities..... It's a very legitimate question.

 

[FreakCricket]

well if pml-n doesn't want army interference they should provide their own security, they already have tons of gullu butts in their disposal.

 

[LowKiiSavage]

Because it has no business being in there as part of CPEC.

If it can happen in Lahore, then why not other cities..... It's a very legitimate question.

Because maybe, maybe, other provincial governments are highly inept especially in the case of Sindh?

 

[Slog]

Lahore's metro line is being developed by the provincial government and not by the Fed. Its not anyone's fault that Karachities and sindhis vote for criminals like PPP and MQM. Your solution is to vote the right party. If you cannot do that, then you have no right to cry. Keep voting your local saiyeen and keep crying.

And [MENTION=132752]endymion248[/MENTION] is right, the behaviour of Karachities is very suspicious considering they are the only one that blow the regionalism trumpet.

Yes give Karcachi more than the 50% tax revenue it contributes to the country. And then they can can go their own way and not cry any more if that works for you

Pakistan depends upon Karachi. Not the other way around for your information. On its own it generates enough to be self sustaining. So keep your advise to yourself and have some gratitude

 

[Slog]

Let's be realistic. The PML (N) is hot favourites for winning 2018. The PPP are twisting in the wind and Imran Khan's stock has seriously dipped since three years ago - where he could only bag a single province any which way.

Expect to see Nawaz Sharif to be Prime Minister of Pakistan for 2018-2023 and even beyond.

Then that's bad for Pakistan and further divides the nation.. As it is almost No one recognises PML-N rule outside Punjab and Nawaz Sharif would be greeted with jootas outside of pinds from Punjab if he was among the common masses.

Can't afford to have another federal government which has negligible representation in all other provinces.

 

[Slog]

You should just be happy that Karachi was included in CPEC at all when there was no need for it. That's an actual example of self-serving lobbying.

Federal government and Punjab can't always bite the hand that feeds it

 

[Eagle_Eye]

Yes give Karcachi more than the 50% tax revenue it contributes to the country. And then they can can go their own way and not cry any more if that works for you

Pakistan depends upon Karachi. Not the other way around for your information. On its own it generates enough to be self sustaining. So keep your advise to yourself and have some gratitude

what if large companies moved out and registered offices in Lahore..... All the money will be routed through Lahore

You seem to peddle this over and over and Endymion did once give you a very apt answer about how this is misleading.

 

[Slog]

what if large companies moved out and registered offices in Lahore..... All the money will be routed through Lahore

You seem to peddle this over and over and Endymion did once give you a very apt answer about how this is misleading.

They are free to do so

But they don't for a reason.

So the fact remains the tax is sourced from karachi. And that's what counts.

It's not peddling when I'm stating a basic fact

 

[endymion248]

Federal government and Punjab can't always bite the hand that feeds it

The irony here being that it's Punjab which feeds you.

 

[endymion248]

They are free to do so

But they don't for a reason.

So the fact remains the tax is sourced from karachi. And that's what counts.

They are free to do so when they have an alternative, which is why you hate the idea of the federal government creating that alternative (don't deny it, you have said it black on white in the past).

 

[Slog]

The irony here being that it's Punjab which feeds you.

There's no irony

Karachi generates enough money to be able to pay Punjab and some. Can't say the same for Punjab. Even if Punjab wasn't an option Karachi has enough revenue generation to import.

For Punjab they still need to go through Karachi for export lol

 

[LowKiiSavage]

Yes give Karcachi more than the 50% tax revenue it contributes to the country. And then they can can go their own way and not cry any more if that works for you

Pakistan depends upon Karachi. Not the other way around for your information. On its own it generates enough to be self sustaining. So keep your advise to yourself and have some gratitude

Yes, it does give a lot of tax revenue and it is because Karachi is the assigned industrial hub. All the headquarters of MNCs are in Karachi. All the taxation is done at the HQ level and thus the higher tax return from Karachi. Its all semantics.

I am shocked to hear this whole Pakistan depends on Karachi because you could not be more wrong than that. Now that Gwadar is developing, Karachi would only fall more in importance. And no Karachi on its own does not generate enough; its the human and economic capital from Punjab that lets it survive.

I feel disgusted to indulge in the regionalism debate but you pushed me there. So let me say it, most of the heads of MNCs are Punjabis and are by requirement based in Karachi. Punjab is the richest province thus all business for these businesses is generated from Punjab.

And remember Karachi is because of Pakistan. It never was and never will be the other way around.

Its upon you to believe in the facts or keep on blowing the Karachi watan trumphet.

 

[Slog]

They are free to do so when they have an alternative, which is why you hate the idea of the federal government creating that alternative (don't deny it, you have said it black on white in the past).

There was no successful alternative in the 90s despite attempts when Karachi was a literal war zone. So you have to be realistic of it now.

Also I've never said anything such as that in 'black on white' as you put it.

In any case Gwadar isn't meant to replace Karachi. It's just supposed to supplement for the increased potential Chinese goods

 

[endymion248]

There's no irony

Karachi generates enough money to be able to pay Punjab and some. Can't say the same for Punjab. Even if Punjab wasn't an option Karachi has enough revenue generation to import.

For Punjab they still need to go through Karachi for export lol

In that hypothetical situation, where exactly does Karachi generate the money from? Do you think companies are settled in Karachi for its tiny consumer market?

Fact of the matter is that you can't eat ruppies, the food you eat comes from inner Pakistan and the money you generate comes from the consumer markets of inner Pakistan.

You should keep that in mind before making castles in the sky about what Karachi deserves from Pakistan.

 

[Slog]

Yes, it does give a lot of tax revenue and it is because Karachi is the assigned industrial hub. All the headquarters of MNCs are in Karachi. All the taxation is done at the HQ level and thus the higher tax return from Karachi. Its all semantics.

I am shocked to hear this whole Pakistan depends on Karachi because you could not be more wrong than that. Now that Gwadar is developing, Karachi would only fall more in importance. And no Karachi on its own does not generate enough; its the human and economic capital from Punjab that lets it survive.

I feel disgusted to indulge in the regionalism debate but you pushed me there. So let me say it, most of the heads of MNCs are Punjabis and are by requirement based in Karachi. Punjab is the richest province thus all business for these businesses is generated form Punjab.

Its upon you to believe in the facts or keep on blowing the Karachi watan trumphet.

Actually they're not. There must be some reason why the heads have to move to Karachi lol.

Despite Karachi being so bad and all poor guys still have to come here for a career at the end of the day. Must suck to swallow that Punjabi pride

 

[Slog]

In that hypothetical situation, where exactly does Karachi generate the money from? Do you think companies are settled in Karachi for its tiny consumer market?

Fact of the matter is that you can't eat ruppies, the food you eat comes from inner Pakistan and the money you generate comes from the consumer markets of inner Pakistan.

You should keep that in mind before making castles in the sky about what Karachi deserves from Pakistan.

Karachi has tiny consumer market lmao

Most companies dedicate resources to Karachi as one whole region and then Punjab and then club the rest of the country together.

That's also why net migration here is higher than any region in the country

Also forget companies. Even on individual income tax basis number of people filing from Karachi far outstrip any other region

Delve into facts and numbers before making sandcastles

 

[LowKiiSavage]

Actually they're not. There must be some reason why the heads have to move to Karachi lol.

Despite Karachi being so bad and all poor guys still have to come here for a career at the end of the day. Must suck to swallow that Punjabi pride

There is nothing as Punjabi pride. I have never even heard this term before. Never have in Punjab, people killed based on their nationality. Its always Karachities hating on whole Pakistan for some weird nonsense reason and your brothers in MQM killing Punjabis and Pakthoons in the name of regionalism.

Also, what do you mean, they are not? I work in corporate and i am in direct contact with all these companies. So, kindly check your facts before you wreck yourself.

Your last two lines sound like some kindergarten kid wrote them.

 

[Gosha]

It is true that without Karachi, Pakistan is nothing. All the important sectors from finance to education are in Karachi. The freakin port is in Karachi. It's no wonder why so many players in Pakistan want a piece of the city. If Karachi were to secede from Pakistan then its economy and daily affairs wouldn't suffer but if vice verse was to occur then Pakistan would lose more than half of its economy, tax revenues and port. It's unfortunate Karachi is stuck in Sindh and cannot decide its own affairs. Karachi needs more autonomy like Hong Kong (well one can wish).

 

[Slog]

I have no problem with the rest of the country running on taxes (or khairaat as some would put it) from Karachi.

But have a look at facts and figures next before regional attacks

Peace

 

[LowKiiSavage]

I would never ever understand, the weird deep seated hatred some Karachities have for whole Pakistan and especially Punjabis.

One of the best examples is Twitter where sometimes its whole Pakistan vs Karachi. Which is downright pathetic.

Funny thing is that it does not goes both ways as Punjabis for more part are individualistic and do not believe in regionalism and more on Pakistaniyat.

 

[endymion248]

There was no successful alternative in the 90s despite attempts when Karachi was a literal war zone. So you have to be realistic of it now.

Also I've never said anything such as that in 'black on white' as you put it.

In any case Gwadar isn't meant to replace Karachi. It's just supposed to supplement for the increased potential Chinese goods

Did you not say that Gwadar is a conspiracy by federal government to treat Karachi like a sauteila bacha by reducing its monopoly? Sadly for you, I have a good memory, even if you are changing statements now that Karachi was supposed to be included in CPEC.

 

[LowKiiSavage]

It is true that without Karachi, Pakistan is nothing. All the important sectors from finance to education are in Karachi. The freakin port is in Karachi. It's no wonder why so many players in Pakistan want a piece of the city. If Karachi were to secede from Pakistan then its economy and daily affairs wouldn't suffer but if vice verse was to occur then Pakistan would lose more than half of its economy, tax revenues and port. It's unfortunate Karachi is stuck in Sindh and cannot decide its own affairs. Karachi needs more autonomy like Hong Kong (well one can wish).

What do you mean finance and education is in Karachi? The HQs of companies are in Karachi and it ends here. If you cut the lower half, what use is of the HQ? Its like saying Mumbai dwarfs whole India as it is the economic hub. Recently, companies have started changing this strategy as Pepsi Co international and PTC opened their HQs in Islamabad.

You could not be more wrong about education. The top two universities of Pakistan out of three are located in Punjab and the Fed.

Karachi can never secede or leave Pakistan just on the wishes of some regionalism crazy nut heads. Karachi has a very diverse population with a lot of Punjabis and Pakthoons in it. It would never happen.

 

[LowKiiSavage]

If Karachi really wants to show they are better than the rest of Pakistanis. How about not voting MQM and PPP for a change?

 

[Slog]

I would never ever understand, the weird deep seated hatred some Karachities have for whole Pakistan and especially Punjabis.

One of the best examples is Twitter where sometimes its whole Pakistan vs Karachi. Which is downright pathetic.

Funny thing is that it does not goes both ways as Punjabis for more part are individualistic and do not believe in regionalism and more on Pakistaniyat.

Oh so it doesn't go both ways

Nice to know.

Let's see one thing. So many people from Punjab and rest of the country move to Karachi every day and live and work here. And by and large they don't have issues and have been living for decades. And asides from those who join political gangs and parties they are well off and get along. There's no many Karachiites who are ethnic punjabis who care for the city first.

But same doesn't happen generally with Punjab and people moving there. They invariably end up moving back.

It's not just Karachi which has a problem with Punjab. Balochistan has a much much bigger problem with the Punjab and the Pashtuns historically have had too. So it's certainly not one region

Historically Punjab has eaten up the rights of the smaller provinces and that is based on fact. Same has happened with CPEC in a way. So there's nothing wierd and surprising about this

Why is it that apart from Punjab every other province has had some sort of secessionist movement? Are all in the wrong and the great righteous and honest province of Punjab right in everything?

 

[Syed1]

I would never ever understand, the weird deep seated hatred some Karachities have for whole Pakistan and especially Punjabis.

One of the best examples is Twitter where sometimes its whole Pakistan vs Karachi. Which is downright pathetic.

Funny thing is that it does not goes both ways as Punjabis for more part are individualistic and do not believe in regionalism and more on Pakistaniyat.

That is like stealing roti from a tandoor-wala and asking why are you looking at me scornfully..

 

[endymion248]

Karachi has tiny consumer market lmao

Most companies dedicate resources to Karachi as one whole region and then Punjab and then club the rest of the country together.

That's also why net migration here is higher than any region in the country

Also forget companies. Even on individual income tax basis number of people filing from Karachi far outstrip any other region

Delve into facts and numbers before making sandcastles

Yes, it is tiny relatively to the rest of Pakistan. And Pakistan being a poor country, multinationals are not going to trip over themselves for a few million consumers from Karachi. Same for industrial production, the main exports of cotton, textile and minerals all come from outside Karachi.

People migrate to Karachi because it's the main urban hub of Pakistan. Without Pakistan, there is no Karachi.

 

[Slog]

Did you not say that Gwadar is a conspiracy by federal government to treat Karachi like a sauteila bacha by reducing its monopoly? Sadly for you, I have a good memory, even if you are changing statements now that Karachi was supposed to be included in CPEC.

No I didn't say that. It's just you projecting what you wanted to hear

Some of the posters in that thread had said Karachi is about to become useless once Gwadar port is made and I said we have been hearing about this for over a decade and it hasn't happened and even when it's made that won't happen

But yea you're free to believe in your conspiracies. And if I were you I'd reconsider the pride you have in your memory

 

[Slog]

If Karachi really wants to show they are better than the rest of Pakistanis. How about not voting MQM and PPP for a change?

If punjabis really want to show they are Pakistanis and put Pakistan first how about they don't vote for PML-N and vote for a party which atleast bothers to win support in all provinces

 

[Syed1]

Can any proud Punjabi explain to me why do smaller cities like Rawalpindi and Multan get wholistic transport projects before Karachi (which has the highest population, highest number of cars, greatest congestion and biggest need for public transport)

Why does Lahore need a budget sapping train project when they just got a comprehensive metro bus system?

 

[Syed1]

People migrate to Karachi because it's the main urban hub of Pakistan. Without Pakistan, there is no Karachi.

And without Karachi there is no Pakistan either. It's better that the Punjabi government in the center realizes this and gives Karachi the due attention it desperately needs

 

[LowKiiSavage]

Oh so it doesn't go both ways

Nice to know.

Let's see one thing. So many people from Punjab and rest of the country move to Karachi every day and live and work here. And by and large they don't have issues and have been living for decades. And asides from those who join political gangs and parties they are well off and get along. There's no many Karachiites who are ethnic punjabis who care for the city first.

But same doesn't happen generally with Punjab and people moving there. They invariably end up moving back.

It's not just Karachi which has a problem with Punjab. Balochistan has a much much bigger problem with the Punjab and the Pashtuns historically have had too. So it's certainly not one region

Historically Punjab has eaten up the rights of the smaller provinces and that is based on fact. Same has happened with CPEC in a way. So there's nothing wierd and surprising about this

Why is it that apart from Punjab every other province has had some sort of secessionist movement? Are all in the wrong and the great righteous and honest province of Punjab right in everything?

I didnt even know about the hatred Karachi has for punjabis until i met Karachities. LOL.

I do not know where you are getting this information from. Most of the people i know (all of them punjabis) moved back to Lahore and Islamabad when they could. Some came back due to the security situation. Some transferred their businesses to Faisalabad.

So, now the cat is out of the box, you are on your mission to prove that CPEC is a failure just because it did not include Sindh/Karachi (which it actually has) when it in no way should have included it. Have you even read the CPEC route? It does not have any link to Karachi or Sindh FFS. But still, Karachi to Peshawar motorway is being developed. M1 railway track is being reconstructed. Power plants and being installed in Sindh. There are many other projects i can mention but looks like facts are not really involved in this debate since the start. Just blind hatred.

Lets clear one thing on the table. There would be always be regionalism nutjobs in every nook and corner and they always are a vocal minority. MQM and Karachi watn people are good example. A vocal armed minority which needed to be crushed and has pretty much been.

You talk about Balochistan, we have BLA there and it is pretty much a negligible factor now and nothing more than just a part time nuisance.

Every one knows who is funding MQM and BLA.

You are talking about Pakthoon or ANP? Because these two are different things. Pakthoon are very loyal Pakistanis. Have you ever heard about NLI?

No province has problem with Punjab. Only a certain city which has a certain minority has a problem with Punjab.

 

[endymion248]

No I didn't say that. It's just you projecting what you wanted to hear

Some of the posters in that thread had said Karachi is about to become useless once Gwadar port is made and I said we have been hearing about this for over a decade and it hasn't happened and even when it's made that won't happen

But yea you're free to believe in your conspiracies. And if I were you I'd reconsider the pride you have in your memory

Yes

Its a crying shame that a city which provides much more the half of the tax revenue in the country is treated like a sautaila bacha by the people in Islamabad.

Taxation from a province should remain in the province. 18th amendment had all this hype abt provincial autonomy and what not but was little more than a smokescreen

Are you honestly blaming Karachi for having a port? Maybe give credit to the people of Karachi who developed it from the shack it was when the British left us. And enough attempts were made to reduce the monopoly of the Karachi port and millions of dollars were wasted on Gwadar and nothing came of that. The sole purpose was to reduce dependence on Karachi and hence importance of the city but that plan miserably failed. So your last point is pretty poor

So we are expecting the people who think that Gwadar is a plan to treat Karachi like a sauteila bacha and its sole purpose is to reduce dependence on Karachi to find any purpose in CPEC? But I am quite confused, you are now saying that Gwadar has nothing to do with Karachi, it's for China, yet you were saying that its sole aim is to reduce dependence on Karachi?

 

[Slog]

Yes, it is tiny relatively to the rest of Pakistan. And Pakistan being a poor country, multinationals are not going to trip over themselves for a few million consumers from Karachi. Same for industrial production, the main exports of cotton, textile and minerals all come from outside Karachi.

People migrate to Karachi because it's the main urban hub of Pakistan. Without Pakistan, there is no Karachi.

No it's not. Learn some basics of how a company markets. It's not a simple case of looking at pop of Karachi and contrasting it with the country's population

Most of our country especially rural areas are dirt poor which would have little interest for most foreign companies. In this case you look at the middle class population it provides. Karachi dwarfs most Other cities put together and with the port and easier distribution network available due to land size it's a no brainer that it would be an attractive proposition.

 

[endymion248]

Can any proud Punjabi explain to me why do smaller cities like Rawalpindi and Multan get wholistic transport projects before Karachi (which has the highest population, highest number of cars, greatest congestion and biggest need for public transport)

Why does Lahore need a budget sapping train project when they just got a comprehensive metro bus system?

How about you ask the parties you voted into power?

 

[LowKiiSavage]

How about you ask the parties you voted into power?

They are more obsessed with PMLN than their own local parties PPP and MQM that have been looting and destroying them for years.

 

[endymion248]

No it's not. Learn some basics of how a company markets. It's not a simple case of looking at pop of Karachi and contrasting it with the country's population

Most of our country especially rural areas are dirt poor which would have little interest for most foreign companies. In this case you look at the middle class population it provides. Karachi dwarfs most Other cities put together and with the port and easier distribution network available due to land size it's a no brainer that it would be an attractive proposition.

And Karachi is the land of milk and honey with the billionaires of the world wying to spend their money there? )

It's a city of slums and poor people like the rest of Pakistan. Just with less people.

 

[LowKiiSavage]

Can any proud Punjabi explain to me why do smaller cities like Rawalpindi and Multan get wholistic transport projects before Karachi (which has the highest population, highest number of cars, greatest congestion and biggest need for public transport)

Why does Lahore need a budget sapping train project when they just got a comprehensive metro bus system?

Because of the DAMN PROVINCINAL GOVERNMENTS. Why is it so difficult for you to understand? That is some thick headed stuff.

 

[Syed1]

How about you ask the parties you voted into power?

That is the thing, when a Karachiite votes for someone that party barely even makes a sizeable number in the Sindh provincial assembly.

However when a Punjabi does so, his party forms government in the center.

 

[endymion248]

And without Karachi there is no Pakistan either. It's better that the Punjabi government in the center realizes this and gives Karachi the due attention it desperately needs

Not denying that. But that brings me back to the point of Gwadar and why karachiites hate the idea that it could diminish their importance. There could be a Pakistan without Karachi as there is nothing inherently special about Karachi.

 

[Syed1]

Because of the DAMN PROVINCINAL GOVERNMENTS. Why is it so difficult for you to understand? That is some thick headed stuff.

And who funds these provincial governments?

 

[LowKiiSavage]

And who funds these provincial governments?

Services come under provincial governments. So, they are taxed on provincial level. They get their funds from there.

NFC award.

Loans.

 

[Slog]

So we are expecting the people who think that Gwadar is a plan to treat Karachi like a sauteila bacha and its sole purpose is to reduce dependence on Karachi to find any purpose in CPEC? But I am quite confused, you are now saying that Gwadar has nothing to do with Karachi, it's for China, yet you were saying that its sole aim is to reduce dependence on Karachi?

It's fantasy of some people ( perhaps like you presumably ) who think that there needs to be an alternate port which would eradicate the utility of Karachis port. Another poster at the time had expressed glee at that and had said Sth to the effect that Karachi would be finished once that was done and Pakistan can move on. My post was in response to that that despite such attempts (Gwadar would be called an attempt in that framework) Karachi was still there and these plans had failed

On the second part. As per official statements so far Gwadar is meant to be mostly for the Chinese goods which will come through CPEC route. And yes I'll put it here. Regardless of what anyone may fantasise Karachi port n port Qasim will be the primary ports

 

[endymion248]

That is the thing, when a Karachiite votes for someone that party barely even makes a sizeable number in the Sindh provincial assembly.

However when a Punjabi does so, his party forms government in the center.

You are conflating two issues here, your representation in the Sindh assembly with Punjab's representation in the center. Sindh assembly allocation between inner Sindh and Karachi has nothing to do with Punjab. Punjab could have 10 million people and yet the Sindh assembly allocation would be the same.

 

[Syed1]

Not denying that. But that brings me back to the point of Gwadar and why karachiites hate the idea that it could diminish their importance. There could be a Pakistan without Karachi as there is nothing inherently special about Karachi.

So you mean to tell me that Gwadar will replace a city of 20 million with 2 international shipping ports, most educated population in all of Pakistan, 4-5 of the best universities in Pakistan, biggest industrial base and highest income per capita in a matter of decades?

 

[Slog]

Punjab is the only province that has never voted on regionalism. We voted for PPP the elections before that. We all know how destructive that was for the country. Never again.

So, look into your ownself in the mirror before questioning us. Pathetic.

Lol who formed the provincial government. PML-N won a majorit that it could form provincial government without any major coalition partners

And It was mostly south Punjab anyway who voted for PPP and the poor people of south Punjab deserve their own Seraiki province anyway

 

[Slog]

You are conflating two issues here, your representation in the Sindh assembly with Punjab's representation in the center. Sindh assembly allocation between inner Sindh and Karachi has nothing to do with Punjab. Punjab could have 10 million people and yet the Sindh assembly allocation would be the same.

No it won't remain the same.

Lol do you even know how it works

 

[LowKiiSavage]

Lol who formed the provincial government. PML-N won a majorit that it could form provincial government without any major coalition partners

And It was mostly south Punjab anyway who voted for PPP and the poor people of south Punjab deserve their own Seraiki province anyway

What? Are you kidding me? Who formed the government in the Fed? PPP. From votes in Punjab.

Oh, yeah. You would still hate them for being punjabis and now for being 'dirt poor'. Doesnt changes anything for them.

 

[MABA]

I am a karachite but will play the devil's advocate here. Many of the projects that have been completed in Punjab have been done under the provincial government. PML-N takes Punjab really seriously and even during PPP government they developed Punjab. Karachi unfortunately falls under Sindh government ruled by PPP who don't give a damn about Karachi as long there voter base interior Sindh is safe. Much of what should be used in Karachi is instead funneled into interior Sindh to keep the waderas and such happy thus guaranteeing votes for PPP.

Karachi will remain an infrastructural nightmare until it becomes it's own province of is given special autonomy because it is too damn big to be kept under Sindh government. However that will never happen as Karachi gives too much to Sindh for them to ever let go.

 

[Slog]

Not denying that. But that brings me back to the point of Gwadar and why karachiites hate the idea that it could diminish their importance. There could be a Pakistan without Karachi as there is nothing inherently special about Karachi.

It won't

It's a fantasy that Gwadar could make a dent even. Good for Pakistan if it can though because we can do with more ports as there's a backlog almost always

 

[FreakCricket]

It is true that without Karachi, Pakistan is nothing. All the important sectors from finance to education are in Karachi. The freakin port is in Karachi. It's no wonder why so many players in Pakistan want a piece of the city. If Karachi were to secede from Pakistan then its economy and daily affairs wouldn't suffer but if vice verse was to occur then Pakistan would lose more than half of its economy, tax revenues and port. It's unfortunate Karachi is stuck in Sindh and cannot decide its own affairs. Karachi needs more autonomy like Hong Kong (well one can wish).

you sound true mqm supporter! lol

 

[Slog]

What? Are you kidding me? Who formed the government in the Fed? PPP. From votes in Punjab.

Oh, yeah. You would still hate them for being punjabis and now for being 'dirt poor'. Doesnt changes anything for them.

PPP formed the Goverment due to Sindh KPK, Balochistan and south Punjab

PML-N formed it just from Punjab

Do you agree this fact?

 

[endymion248]

It's fantasy of some people ( perhaps like you presumably ) who think that there needs to be an alternate port which would eradicate the utility of Karachis port. Another poster at the time had expressed glee at that and had said Sth to the effect that Karachi would be finished once that was done and Pakistan can move on. My post was in response to that that despite such attempts (Gwadar would be called an attempt in that framework) Karachi was still there and these plans had failed

On the second part. As per official statements so far Gwadar is meant to be mostly for the Chinese goods which will come through CPEC route. And yes I'll put it here. Regardless of what anyone may fantasise Karachi port n port Qasim will be the primary ports

If Gwadar was truly an attempt to decrease the importance of Karachi as you said then it's wrong to say that ''Gwadar isn't meant to replace Karachi''. As simple as that. Your two statements are completely incompatible and show that you are prone to making up conspiracies against Karachi, like you did at that time (and now retracting) and like you are doing now (and will probably retract in the future).

It's the usual victim complex that Karachiites are so fond of where they can simultaneously present themselves as the guys who developed the most since 1947 Pakistan, supposedly rich enough to be giving Khairat to other pakistanis, AND the ones who are being victimized by Pakistan.

 

[LowKiiSavage]

PPP formed the Goverment due to Sindh KPK, Balochistan and south Punjab

PML-N formed it just from Punjab

Do you agree this fact?

Are you seriously comparing provincial government to Fed which covers the whole country?

PMLN rightfully formed the provincial government in Punjab because it did a lot of good work and therefore awam voted for them again.

On the other hand, Sindh was a total disaster under PPP in two terms and whole Pakistan in one term of PPP.

You seriously would have your head in the sand if you think PPP is equal to PMLN and they did nothing wrong.

 

[endymion248]

So you mean to tell me that Gwadar will replace a city of 20 million with 2 international shipping ports, most educated population in all of Pakistan, 4-5 of the best universities in Pakistan, biggest industrial base and highest income per capita in a matter of decades?

It's not about replacing, the point is about whether there is a Pakistan without Karachi or not.

 

[Slog]

If Gwadar was truly an attempt to decrease the importance of Karachi as you said then it's wrong to say that ''Gwadar isn't meant to replace Karachi''. As simple as that. Your two statements are completely incompatible and show that you are prone to making up conspiracies against Karachi, like you did at that time (and now retracting) and like you are doing now (and will probably retract in the future).

It's the usual victim complex that Karachiites are so fond of where they can simultaneously present themselves as the guys who developed the most since 1947 Pakistan, supposedly rich enough to be giving Khairat to other pakistanis, AND the ones who are being victimized by Pakistan.

Oh cry me a river and talk on facts here for a change

And yes it is true. Karachi does contribute more than most of country out together to the national exchequer in terms of tax revue. That is plain fact

Also it's not my problem if you can't understand context and are prone to see things as you want to

 

[endymion248]

No it won't remain the same.

Lol do you even know how it works

Then maybe you can enlighten me how the population of Punjab changes who gets into power in the Sindh assembly?

 

[LowKiiSavage]

If Gwadar was truly an attempt to decrease the importance of Karachi as you said then it's wrong to say that ''Gwadar isn't meant to replace Karachi''. As simple as that. Your two statements are completely incompatible and show that you are prone to making up conspiracies against Karachi, like you did at that time (and now retracting) and like you are doing now (and will probably retract in the future).

It's the usual victim complex that Karachiites are so fond of where they can simultaneously present themselves as the guys who developed the most since 1947 Pakistan, supposedly rich enough to be giving Khairat to other pakistanis, AND the ones who are being victimized by Pakistan.

Using words like 'giving khairat to whole Pakistan' truly tells you about the mentality of some posters here. No surprises for guessing which city they belong to.

 

[Syed1]

It's not about replacing, the point is about whether there is a Pakistan without Karachi or not.

Not unless Gwadar manages to achieve all that I put in my previous post. Till that time Karachi is the need of the hour. After that the Punjabi government in the center can do an economic boycott of Karachi that they so dearly desire.

 

[LowKiiSavage]

Oh cry me a river and talk on facts here for a change

And yes it is true. Karachi does contribute more than most of country out together to the national exchequer in terms of tax revue. That is plain fact

Ironic that you want to talk about facts when you keep repeating the same thing when you are being told again and again that the 'fact' that you keep on showing is incompletely presented deliberately to suit your own line of argument.

 

[endymion248]

It won't

It's a fantasy that Gwadar could make a dent even. Good for Pakistan if it can though because we can do with more ports as there's a backlog almost always

Good, relax and stop posting obsessively about Gwadar then.

 

[Slog]

Using words like 'giving khairat to whole Pakistan' truly tells you about the mentality of some posters here. No surprises for guessing which city they belong to.

This poster you quoted has used this almost verbatim before in terms of Punjab sending food produce to Karachi (which Karachi actually buys btw) so I was just throwing the line back at him

Too bad for him I actually remember lines too and unlike him don't mix up the context

 

[endymion248]

Not unless Gwadar manages to achieve all that I put in my previous post. Till that time Karachi is the need of the hour. After that the Punjabi government in the center can do an economic boycott of Karachi that they so dearly desire.

Pakistan's survival is not contingent on achieving what you posted in the previous post. In a hypothetical scenario where Karachi blockades Pakistan, Pakistan could fare much better off than Karachi as long as it has a domestic outlet for its export goods (ie the port). I'm not saying it would be unscathed but at least it wouldn't have 20 million hungry mouths to feed with no money to do so.

 

[LowKiiSavage]

Business Recorder - Karachi Contributing 70 per cent revenue a myth


http://www.brecorder.com/articles-a...ontributing-70-of-federal-tax-revenue-a-myth/


Karachi being an economic and financial hub of the country a large number of firms and institutions has their head offices in Karachi, where these entities deposit their income/corporate tax although their products are used throughout the country. Let us take the example of banks and other financial institutions. Almost all banks, insurance companies and mutual funds have their head offices in Karachi where they pay their income/corporate tax but they earn their income from the entire country. Punjab Province uses 48% of total bank credit. 48% of bank's profits, otherwise deposited in Karachi should be included in a tax burden on Punjab. Thus, if a number of similar adjustments are made Karachi is hardly bearing more than 30 to 35% of tax burden.


89 per cent of Pakistan's remittances come from Punjab and KPK and these jokers are telling us that Pakistan cannot survive without Karachi. HAHAHA

 

[Slog]

Ironic that you want to talk about facts when you keep repeating the same thing when you are being told again and again that the 'fact' that you keep on showing is incompletely presented deliberately to suit your own line of argument.

It's not incompletely presented

Even on individual income tax basis more taxes are filed from Karachi than most of the country combined thus throwing out the whole premise of your argument. Which btw is a pretty poor argument anyway because you look at where the tax revenue is sourced from. And if it's sourced more from a particular region than rest of the country combined then the region deserves a greater than current share (even after accounting for the high and backward population of rural Punjab). After all you need to spend those tax rupees for upgrading the infrastructure ehuch provides you with the money

 

[Syed1]

Pakistan's survival is not contingent on achieving what you posted in the previous post. In a hypothetical scenario where Karachi blockades Pakistan, Pakistan could fare much better off than Karachi as long as it has a domestic outlet for its export goods (ie the port). I'm not saying it would be unscathed but at least it wouldn't have 20 million hungry mouths to feed with no money to do so.

Those 20 million mouths to feed also account for a big chunk of Pakistan's GDP.

 

[LowKiiSavage]

Business Recorder - Karachi Contributing 70 per cent revenue a myth


http://www.brecorder.com/articles-a...ontributing-70-of-federal-tax-revenue-a-myth/


Karachi being an economic and financial hub of the country a large number of firms and institutions has their head offices in Karachi, where these entities deposit their income/corporate tax although their products are used throughout the country. Let us take the example of banks and other financial institutions. Almost all banks, insurance companies and mutual funds have their head offices in Karachi where they pay their income/corporate tax but they earn their income from the entire country. Punjab Province uses 48% of total bank credit. 48% of bank's profits, otherwise deposited in Karachi should be included in a tax burden on Punjab. Thus, if a number of similar adjustments are made Karachi is hardly bearing more than 30 to 35% of tax burden.


89 per cent of Pakistan's remittances come from Punjab and KPK and these jokers are telling us that Pakistan cannot survive without Karachi. HAHAHA

It's not incompletely presented

Even on individual income tax basis more taxes are filed from Karachi than most of the country combined thus throwing out the whole premise of your argument. Which btw is a pretty poor argument anyway because you look at where the tax revenue is sourced from. And if it's sourced more from a particular region than rest of the country combined then the region deserves a greater than current share (even after accounting for the high and backward population of rural Punjab). After all you need to spend those tax rupees for upgrading the infrastructure ehuch provides you with the money

Enjoy.