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Music - Is it Haraam?

tempus123 said:
Another question in the matter of life, one needs to ask religious scholars:

Is crossing the road when signal is red, haraam ?
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Strict version: Yes
Moderate version: Ok as long as there are no cars and you walk at a brisk enough pace that it doesn't seem you're flouting the rules
 
tempus123 said:
Another question in the matter of life, one needs to ask religious scholars:

Is crossing the road when signal is red, haraam ?
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Not if you are a Hindu in which case the saffron light means it's good to go. :19:

PS. if you get hit by a truck you get to come back in your next life as a yogi.
 
Cpt. Rishwat said:
Not if you are a Hindu in which case the saffron light means it's good to go. :19:

PS. if you get hit by a truck you get to come back in your next life as a yogi.
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He is talking about Red light and you are talking about Saffron light. Does not make any sense :facepalm:
 
Why do you all want to go to heaven ? Nobody lives there other than Gandhi, Mother Teresa and Mandela.
 
Thivagar said:
Why do you all want to go to heaven ? Nobody lives there other than Gandhi, Mother Teresa and Mandela.
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None of these believed in Islam and as an extension, Allah, so how can they be anywhere apart from hell ?
 
hadi123 said:
Hello everyone. I want to ask do you think Music is haraam. It is ramadhan this month so I am not listening to music but I listen to music when it isn't ramadhan or muhurram, safar or first 9 days of rabi ul awaal (shias understand). Many people say music is haraam but I don't believe so. Do you think Music is haraam?
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If you do not think it is wrong in other months , why you stop in Ramdhan ?
 
Justcrazy said:
If you do not think it is wrong in other months , why you stop in Ramdhan ?
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Brilliant question.

The purpose of Ramadhan is to stop/ control the bad habits we have.

E.g. lying, back biting, over eating, lowering your gaze and NO MUSIC just to name a few.

Why is then its OK to do so outside Ramadan?
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
Hinduism is a concept where anything and everything is supposedly ok. That doesn't mean its like that in texts.

That doesn't mean Brahmins can do whatever they please while following Vedic texts for other stuff.

All my Brahmin friends eat meat and drink when we all go out.

No big deal.

These are the same people who will marry in their same caste (most of them), perform thread ceremony, change their threads every August like all Brahmins do.

So the point is that pick and choose happens everywhere. No one is talking about enforcing anything on anyone.

You asked me about moderates and I am explaining that this is a complex concept.

At some level, all religious people are big hypocrites (includes me too). But sometimes....you gotta be a hypocrite or else life can be too difficult. That doesn't mean hypocrisy is right. Its still wrong.
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have to say we are born in coolest religion..actual what we are taught is its not religion its way of living that's it.....no compulsion on what should we wear or not..no matter even we change our religion as it is said in our religion that god is one..but there can be many paths to reach there so there is no compulsion...do whatever f**k you want to do as long as it doesnt hurt some one ..i just hated caste system that too thank god people these days dnt care much and there are laws against cast system ...on the other side how can be music called haram......oh man its out of my mind..i cant let some one to tell me or force me to do this or dnt do this.......music is beautiful thing
 
aashiqmizaaj said:
It would not be allowed. Simple.
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dnt you think for some time if people want to relax and enjoy listening music and get rid of stress due to many things like busy schedule of daily life, god would not mind much after all god love us all...what is your opinion on this???
 
akki said:
dnt you think for some time if people want to relax and enjoy listening music and get rid of stress due to many things like busy schedule of daily life, god would not mind much after all god love us all...what is your opinion on this???
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Much like scripture, you're taking my comment completely out of context. I was responding to the notion of going through a red light. It would not be allowed, because one it endangers others, two, it creates disharmony, three, it's a purely selfish move.
 
aashiqmizaaj said:
Much like scripture, you're taking my comment completely out of context. I was responding to the notion of going through a red light. It would not be allowed, because one it endangers others, two, it creates disharmony, three, it's a purely selfish move.
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i know in what context you did said so that's why i asked your personal opinion on music....and yeah fair enough
 
akki said:
have to say we are born in coolest religion..actual what we are taught is its not religion its way of living that's it.....no compulsion on what should we wear or not..no matter even we change our religion as it is said in our religion that god is one..but there can be many paths to reach there so there is no compulsion...do whatever f**k you want to do as long as it doesnt hurt some one ..i just hated caste system that too thank god people these days dnt care much and there are laws against cast system ...on the other side how can be music called haram......oh man its out of my mind..i cant let some one to tell me or force me to do this or dnt do this.......music is beautiful thing
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That's not how it is in texts.

Hinduism (as it is now) is something where anything and everything is ok. Its a mismash and mixture of senseless stuff. Its just feel good stuff where someone decided "ok there are so many interpretations and so many religions....everything is the same".

Hinduism looks coolest cos that's we have turned it into what is considered cool. If Islam or Christianity do the same, they will look cool too.

But does that mean anything?

Nope.

Our texts are extremely complicated and a go a lot deeper into who you are, your relationship with God, rights, duties, etc, etc. Dharma and stuff. Its an ocean. Simplifying it into something simple is like simplifying a complex concept like quantum physics into some kiddish line and saying "this is basically that".

The thing that is good about our religion is that there are different lives for a soul and someone doesn't go to eternal hell for disbelief. He will eventually find God.

Another thing is that concepts like why is there disparity in the world, why is someone born in a priviledged family (education, etc) and someone is not is explained in depth in those texts. Our lives in this world is not the starting point or else why do we deserve an inferior or superior life compared to say someone like a kid in Africa/kid of a billionaire (of course, don't assume that kid of a billionaire is a blessed life...its there to give you an example of disparity).

I am a Brahmin but I will tell you truthfully that I wish there wasn't caste system . I am not lying. But if you are looking for reasons why its there....its said that caste systems and the main thing is your karma (past deeds). Anyone from any caste can seek God and no one must be looked down upon any of the caste. Case in point, one of the Prophets came from a lower caste just to drive home this point.

What is logical at the wordly level may not be logical at an overall level.

Was Ganga a hero or villain for killing 6 out of 7 of her kids when they were born?

Wordly logic. Villain.
Overall logic. Hero. Do read up about the 7 sages who stole cows from a Rishis, got cursed and wanted Ganga to liberate them from this curse (6 of them planned the theft so they were born as babies and killed immediately - the one who did the theft had to suffer the most punishment in Earth (for celestian bodies, life in Earth is a punishment) - the 7th one was the Great Bhishma).

Again I do wish there weren't caste systems (atleast according to my limited brain) but generally scholars refer to Itihas like Mahabharata and Ramayana for conduct of treating other castes. Its not like you can read a verse and illtreat people. Its simply not allowed.

Texts + Itihas reference + Gurus (who have studied under reputed Gurus) are the key to getting knowledge.

Things are much more complex than what it seems and I don't claim to be an authority in religious topics. The texts of Hinduism are incredibly complex with concepts like Yuga Dharma and all (the stuff that must be followed in different Yugas). Hinduism as we know it is oversimplifying it.
 
akki said:
i know in what context you did said so that's why i asked your personal opinion on music....and yeah fair enough
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There are different interpretations on music. Obscenity, vulgarity is not allowed - but then what passes for vulgar to me, may be perfectly fine for someone else. I do listen to music but only orchestral. It is absolutely possible that that too is not allowed and if so, I would make an effort to stop listening to that too. As a Muslim, I have the example of the Prophet SAW - him and his companions are rarely reported to have been listening to music (there are a few traditions but that's about it). Going by that example, if they didn't do it, then I shouldn't do it.
 
aashiqmizaaj said:
There are different interpretations on music. Obscenity, vulgarity is not allowed - but then what passes for vulgar to me, may be perfectly fine for someone else. I do listen to music but only orchestral. It is absolutely possible that that too is not allowed and if so, I would make an effort to stop listening to that too. As a Muslim, I have the example of the Prophet SAW - him and his companions are rarely reported to have been listening to music (there are a few traditions but that's about it). Going by that example, if they didn't do it, then I shouldn't do it.
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So you mean the things which prophet saw and his companions neved did then muslims of present also should never do that..how can music hurt some one...may be some one say it pollutes mind or may be take away our mind away from god but music is love ..its beautiful...i am sorry i am not able to get this point...but anyway its your life mate your choice....your not listening music should nt bother me.....
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
That's not how it is in texts.

Hinduism (as it is now) is something where anything and everything is ok. Its a mismash and mixture of senseless stuff. Its just feel good stuff where someone decided "ok there are so many interpretations and so many religions....everything is the same".

Hinduism looks coolest cos that's we have turned it into what is considered cool. If Islam or Christianity do the same, they will look cool too.

But does that mean anything?

Nope.

Our texts are extremely complicated and a go a lot deeper into who you are, your relationship with God, rights, duties, etc, etc. Dharma and stuff. Its an ocean. Simplifying it into something simple is like simplifying a complex concept like quantum physics into some kiddish line and saying "this is basically that".

The thing that is good about our religion is that there are different lives for a soul and someone doesn't go to eternal hell for disbelief. He will eventually find God.

Another thing is that concepts like why is there disparity in the world, why is someone born in a priviledged family (education, etc) and someone is not is explained in depth in those texts. Our lives in this world is not the starting point or else why do we deserve an inferior or superior life compared to say someone like a kid in Africa/kid of a billionaire (of course, don't assume that kid of a billionaire is a blessed life...its there to give you an example of disparity).

I am a Brahmin but I will tell you truthfully that I wish there wasn't caste system . I am not lying. But if you are looking for reasons why its there....its said that caste systems and the main thing is your karma (past deeds). Anyone from any caste can seek God and no one must be looked down upon any of the caste. Case in point, one of the Prophets came from a lower caste just to drive home this point.

What is logical at the wordly level may not be logical at an overall level.

Was Ganga a hero or villain for killing 6 out of 7 of her kids when they were born?

Wordly logic. Villain.
Overall logic. Hero. Do read up about the 7 sages who stole cows from a Rishis, got cursed and wanted Ganga to liberate them from this curse (6 of them planned the theft so they were born as babies and killed immediately - the one who did the theft had to suffer the most punishment in Earth (for celestian bodies, life in Earth is a punishment) - the 7th one was the Great Bhishma).

Again I do wish there weren't caste systems (atleast according to my limited brain) but generally scholars refer to Itihas like Mahabharata and Ramayana for conduct of treating other castes. Its not like you can read a verse and illtreat people. Its simply not allowed.

Texts + Itihas reference + Gurus (who have studied under reputed Gurus) are the key to getting knowledge.

Things are much more complex than what it seems and I don't claim to be an authority in religious topics. The texts of Hinduism are incredibly complex with concepts like Yuga Dharma and all (the stuff that must be followed in different Yugas). Hinduism as we know it is oversimplifying it.
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Caste system is the worst thing ever happened....i have never read about the output of karma in castes ,its misinterprated thing and may be man made..after all hinduism is kind of oldest religion in world....and caste thing was the worst thing ever happened in it which kind of continued for centuries and may be till now in some remote village places ...
Like i said todat that i am lucky to be born in a religion which gives me full freedom for being myself and judge what is wrong and right but may be 50 years back if i was born as hindu in lower caste then i would have said its the worst ever thing happened to me to be born as this
Thats the reason and yeah even if some one bring out the caste thingy (just for argument sake which inreal is not the case because its not true we all know now) or kind of say that you have to judge this lower class person different ,they are untouchable otherwise you would go to hell...i will love to go to hell then..
 
akki said:
So you mean the things which prophet saw and his companions neved did then muslims of present also should never do that..how can music hurt some one...may be some one say it pollutes mind or may be take away our mind away from god but music is love ..its beautiful...i am sorry i am not able to get this point...but anyway its your life mate your choice....your not listening music should nt bother me.....
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The Prophet SAW and his companions are considered examples for us to follow. So yes, if they didn't listen to music, then we should avoid it as well. Music may be love, it may be beautiful, but as a Muslim, if something is forbidden, or is discouraged, then we try to comply - and according to many, music does not fall into the love/beauty categories.

And yes, whatever I do, whatever choices I make should not be an issue for anyone - I am accountable for me, you are accountable for you. The reverse applies as well - whatever you do, should not bother me.
 
akki said:
Caste system is the worst thing ever happened....i have never read about the output of karma in castes ,its misinterprated thing and may be man made..after all hinduism is kind of oldest religion in world....and caste thing was the worst thing ever happened in it which kind of continued for centuries and may be till now in some remote village places ...
Like i said todat that i am lucky to be born in a religion which gives me full freedom for being myself and judge what is wrong and right but may be 50 years back if i was born as hindu in lower caste then i would have said its the worst ever thing happened to me to be born as this
Thats the reason and yeah even if some one bring out the caste thingy (just for argument sake which inreal is not the case because its not true we all know now) or kind of say that you have to judge this lower class person different ,they are untouchable otherwise you would go to hell...i will love to go to hell then..
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I get your point but the religion you talk about isn't how its in the texts. Its just a simplified version that has no basis in texts.

In that aspect, Christianity is cool too (atleast some sects) cos they reformed over the centuries.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
I get your point but the religion you talk about isn't how its in the texts. Its just a simplified version that has no basis in texts.

In that aspect, Christianity is cool too (atleast some sects) cos they reformed over the centuries.
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Well then that's how it should be and it will be like that changing forever because there is no second option on this
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
I get your point but the religion you talk about isn't how its in the texts. Its just a simplified version that has no basis in texts.

In that aspect, Christianity is cool too (atleast some sects) cos they reformed over the centuries.
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And you know what there were many things practices which need to be changed in our culture long back that's the main reason why many other religions like jainism,sikhism,budhism all originated from india....
 
This is a never ending topic and i have seen it before.

Are you Muslim? Then Don't listen to music , its strongly discouraged.

Are you Muslim and listen to music? You should avoid music, if you don't want to, i pray you come to remove it from your life one day.

Are you not Muslim and listen to music? see above
 
Justcrazy said:
If you do not think it is wrong in other months , why you stop in Ramdhan ?
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I know most people say it is haraam all the time but it is too hard bro to stop listening to music. I stop in Ramzan and try not in other months but the temptation is too much but other than that I am a good muslim. I pray 5 times a day, I help people, charity, I don't smoke, drink, do drugs, I eat halal meat, I go to mosque etc
 
hadi123 said:
I know most people say it is haraam all the time but it is too hard bro to stop listening to music. I stop in Ramzan and try not in other months but the temptation is too much but other than that I am a good muslim. I pray 5 times a day, I help people, charity, I don't smoke, drink, do drugs, I eat halal meat, I go to mosque etc
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What is the motivation to call it Haraam in Islam ?
 
Kean0 said:
This is a never ending topic and i have seen it before.

Are you Muslim? Then Don't listen to music , its strongly discouraged.

Are you Muslim and listen to music? You should avoid music, if you don't want to, i pray you come to remove it from your life one day.

Are you not Muslim and listen to music? see above
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Why is it not permitted for a Muslim to listen to music ? What is the harm ?
 
Some people here are talking about music like it is a genuinely evil thing in the grand scheme of things in this world. Flabbergasting really.
 
James said:
Some people here are talking about music like it is a genuinely evil thing in the grand scheme of things in this world. Flabbergasting really.
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What if the religious scholars made watching Cricket Haraam too ? Would have been nice.
 
tempus123 said:
What if the religious scholars made watching Cricket Haraam too ? Would have been nice.
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Please note a 'religious scholar' does not make something haraam. They merely relay the message from the Quran or a hadith.

Unfortunately, due to cultural reasons some do take it upon themselves to create new rulings. They should be ignored.
 
James said:
Some people here are talking about music like it is a genuinely evil thing in the grand scheme of things in this world. Flabbergasting really.
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James you are right, there are bigger evils in this World than music. I see Muslims drinking, lying, cheating in business and pretty much everything that you can think of.

Music for a practicing music is not good, it deviates you away from your prayers and alter a persons mental state. I know this may sound extreme to some but its important to always remain in control of your mind.
 
Well yes, that is what art does. Reading, watching a play, looking at a painting or viewing a film are things that also take up time and can alter somebody's mental state. Are these things also banned under the same rationale?
 
Kean0 said:
Music for a practicing muslim is not good, it deviates you away from your prayers and alter a persons mental state. I know this may sound extreme to some but its important to always remain in control of your mind.
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But so does watching cricket, right ?
 
aashiqmizaaj said:
There are different interpretations on music. Obscenity, vulgarity is not allowed - but then what passes for vulgar to me, may be perfectly fine for someone else. I do listen to music but only orchestral. It is absolutely possible that that too is not allowed and if so, I would make an effort to stop listening to that too. As a Muslim, I have the example of the Prophet SAW - him and his companions are rarely reported to have been listening to music (there are a few traditions but that's about it). Going by that example, if they didn't do it, then I shouldn't do it.
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I heard that prophet tells muslims only to use a specific twig to brush your teeth, would you follow that too ? Didn't prophet only tell you to follow things based on what was the "best decision" for that period ?. If Prophet was here today, would he still tell you to brush your teeth with a twig ? We live in a different age now, things have changed. 30 years ago people believed that certain people don't deserve the same rights and they totally felt normal about it. 80 years ago women weren't allowed to vote because they totally felt that women weren't qualified to vote. Even now in some parts of the world women do not get to choose who they get married to and it blows their mind when a girl refuses to marry a person their parents point at.
 
James said:
Well yes, that is what art does. Reading, watching a play, looking at a painting or viewing a film are things that also take up time and can alter somebody's mental state. Are these things also banned under the same rationale?
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Same goes with Pakpassion :steyn. But, people decide what is "haram" and what is not based on their interest.
 
Thivagar said:
Same goes with Pakpassion :steyn. But, people decide what is "haram" and what is not based on their interest.
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I agree. Religion/politics/values etc is usually a pick-and-choose exercise for people. You can't prevent human nature from taking over.
 
I am sure people who didn't know where the sun goes at night knew what is 'halal' and what is 'haram'. We who have received modern education based on years of research and hard work cannot make our own decisions and need to rely on what bronze age people said.
 
James said:
Well yes, that is what art does. Reading, watching a play, looking at a painting or viewing a film are things that also take up time and can alter somebody's mental state. Are these things also banned under the same rationale?
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No these are NOT all banned, it is why we seek what the Quran or Hadith (our prophets example) says about the matter.

Like i said, to some the rationale i gave may seem extreme.
 
Kean0 said:
You can walk away from a game of cricket and forget about it.

A song you walk away from and you will still be humming it.
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As a religious guy myself, I understand religion comes with its compulsions and you are duty bound to follow it but if you really think about it...the reason music is banned is that it was avoided during Prophet's time while cricket wasn't played in those days.

Cricket is ok to watch NOT bcos its ok to watch but bcos it wasn't played in those days and there is no overwhelming need for it to be declared haraam. ;-)

If you see Al Shabaab (terrorists), they extended the music logic and banned football and killed off 50 people playing football. Of course, I am NOT justifying killing on religious grounds or saying they are following the religion properly but talking about the fact that they have come to this conclusion by taking the core concept of why music was banned and applying it in today's context.
 
More importantly what we need to figure out is:

Is watching TV and surfing the Internet haraam?
 
Kean0 said:
You can walk away from a game of cricket and forget about it.

A song you walk away from and you will still be humming it.
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So basically your vehemently opposed to something you have no interest in and justifying what your are interested in.
 
Music is lovely, certain forms are not so great lyrically in this era though.
 
Cpt. Rishwat said:
At least he's not comparing cow smuggling to raping girls to be fair.
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That is still better than killing someone on drawing a cartoon, but I wouldn't like to dignify your troll attempts by saying anything against your religion.

Good luck with your troll attempts.
 
1994 - Beiber was born
1995 - Eazy-E died
1996 - Tupac Shakur died
1997 - Biggie died...

talk about the dark ages...
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
I get your point but the religion you talk about isn't how its in the texts. Its just a simplified version that has no basis in texts.

In that aspect, Christianity is cool too (atleast some sects) cos they reformed over the centuries.
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Is caste part of Hinduism or something it was added by morons later on ?
 
filthyfulltoss said:
Christians don't believe that the bible is infallible because they believe it is the word of man. That's why they're not strictly bound by it. That's also why you see continuous reform in what used to be Christian dominant countries. You don't have laws or traditions that are purely based on scripture, they have evolved or died out. That's why you can have such things legalized here as homosexual marriage, etc even though it is in direct conflict with Christianity.

Can you say this about Islam?
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No, Christian countries are only relaxed because they won a brutal battle with the Church some centuries ago that once and for all forced religion into a position of minor influence over society. Actual Christians, like those in the Southern US, are very strict. Most people in Christian countries aren't observant.

Judaism is the strictest Abrahamist faith. Jews must observe some 600 laws, including not using electronic lights on the Sabbath.
 
Pantani said:
No, Christian countries are only relaxed because they won a brutal battle with the Church some centuries ago that once and for all forced religion into a position of minor influence over society. Actual Christians, like those in the Southern US, are very strict. Most people in Christian countries aren't observant.

Judaism is the strictest Abrahamist faith. Jews must observe some 600 laws, including not using electronic lights on the Sabbath.
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No one can force someone to take a metaphorical or non-literalist interpretation of a religious text. That's a personal choice. What I take out of the Quran and Bible is my decision and totally independent of what the state thinks - as far as secularism is concerned.

The fact remains that Muslims tend to take their text much more literally than Christians do who have opinions that change over time. The Bible is no longer used to justify slavery in the States because times have changed and so has the interpretation of the text - all of this happened under a secular constitutional framework showing that interpretation of the Bible varies depending on societal attitudes. On the other hand, Islamic interpretation of religious text is more or less consistent.
 
Thivagar said:
Is caste part of Hinduism or something it was added by morons later on ?
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Hinduism, all of how it is practiced in modern times - the rituals, traditions, laws, etc. - is utterly alienated from what it was in the ancient world. Hinduism began with the idea that mortal life and the physical universe are illusions, that we must overcome in order to reunite with the spiritual universe from which we originate. Overcoming the illusion was once the only Hindu idea. All the temples, statues, caste systems etc. are completely unrelated to this original goal. Because, if all of the universe is an illusion, then what does it matter if you eat beef, if you touch a Dalit?

Who knows who put these things into Hinduism? But certainly, we can understand why they did it - to corrupt Hinduism and take it away from its roots.
 
filthyfulltoss said:
No one can force someone to take a metaphorical or non-literalist interpretation of a religious text. That's a personal choice. What I take out of the Quran and Bible is my decision and totally independent of what the state thinks - as far as secularism is concerned.

The fact remains that Muslims tend to take their text much more literally than Christians do who have opinions that change over time. The Bible is no longer used to justify slavery in the States because times have changed and so has the interpretation of the text - all of this happened under a secular constitutional framework showing that interpretation of the Bible varies depending on societal attitudes. On the other hand, Islamic interpretation of religious text is more or less consistent.
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This is because the Islamic world has not yet had it's own brutal battle with religion. There is nothing fundamentally different. The only reason Muslims take the Koran more literally than most Christians take the Bible is because Muslims are still conditioned into thinking that the Koran is infallible, just as Christians did with the Bible in 1600. Eventually this will change.
 
Pantani said:
Hinduism, all of how it is practiced in modern times - the rituals, traditions, laws, etc. - is utterly alienated from what it was in the ancient world. Hinduism began with the idea that mortal life and the physical universe are illusions, that we must overcome in order to reunite with the spiritual universe from which we originate. Overcoming the illusion was once the only Hindu idea. All the temples, statues, caste systems etc. are completely unrelated to this original goal. Because, if all of the universe is an illusion, then what does it matter if you eat beef, if you touch a Dalit?

Who knows who put these things into Hinduism? But certainly, we can understand why they did it - to corrupt Hinduism and take it away from its roots.
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Great post!
 
Pantani said:
Hinduism, all of how it is practiced in modern times - the rituals, traditions, laws, etc. - is utterly alienated from what it was in the ancient world. Hinduism began with the idea that mortal life and the physical universe are illusions, that we must overcome in order to reunite with the spiritual universe from which we originate. Overcoming the illusion was once the only Hindu idea. All the temples, statues, caste systems etc. are completely unrelated to this original goal. Because, if all of the universe is an illusion, then what does it matter if you eat beef, if you touch a Dalit?

Who knows who put these things into Hinduism? But certainly, we can understand why they did it - to corrupt Hinduism and take it away from its roots.
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Well who has been preventing Hinduism in returning to it's Utopian past? Seems to me that the Hindu revivalist parties are more militant than those who put less emphasis on religion. Now India is free from Islamic and Christian influence it should be easy to move forward rather than blame the outsiders for caste systems and widow burning.
 
Pantani said:
Hinduism, all of how it is practiced in modern times - the rituals, traditions, laws, etc. - is utterly alienated from what it was in the ancient world. Hinduism began with the idea that mortal life and the physical universe are illusions, that we must overcome in order to reunite with the spiritual universe from which we originate. Overcoming the illusion was once the only Hindu idea. All the temples, statues, caste systems etc. are completely unrelated to this original goal. Because, if all of the universe is an illusion, then what does it matter if you eat beef, if you touch a Dalit?

Who knows who put these things into Hinduism? But certainly, we can understand why they did it - to corrupt Hinduism and take it away from its roots.
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This is what ive been telling people. Caste doesn't belong in Hinduism, SL Hindiusm is different from the "Indian Hinduism". Hinduism from Tamil Nadu and the Hinduism from SL are more alike. Even doing Poosai/Pooja is nonsense. I do believe in astrology though.
 
Pantani said:
This is because the Islamic world has not yet had it's own brutal battle with religion. There is nothing fundamentally different. The only reason Muslims take the Koran more literally than most Christians take the Bible is because Muslims are still conditioned into thinking that the Koran is infallible, just as Christians did with the Bible in 1600. Eventually this will change.
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What makes you think it will change ?
 
Thivagar said:
Just found out it was added later on.
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That's just one view (and that view is not mainstream).

Vedic texts consist of

1. Main Vedas
2. Upanishads
3. Vedangas
4. Puranas
5. Itihasa (Ramayana, Mahabharata)
6. Other scriptures

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vedas

There is a mindboggling level of religious texts and castes are mentioned in them. Its even mentioned in Hindu jurisprudence Dharma Shastra too (Karma, caste, birth and death cycle).
 
choli k pechay kia hei
choli k nechay kia hei............is haram in Islam & if not forbidden in any other religion they they can listen & watch these stuffs whole day.
 
Music is haram in Islam & not surprisingly majority answers came from non muslims, bhai why dnt you peoples let these debates for muslims only
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
That's just one view (and that view is not mainstream).

Vedic texts consist of

1. Main Vedas
2. Upanishads
3. Vedangas
4. Puranas
5. Itihasa (Ramayana, Mahabharata)
6. Other scriptures

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vedas

There is a mindboggling level of religious texts and castes are mentioned in them. Its even mentioned in Hindu jurisprudence Dharma Shastra too (Karma, caste, birth and death cycle).
Click to expand...

One of the question is, what exactly is "Hinduism" ? Is sacrificing goat in some villages part of Hinduism ? We all know that Ramayana and Mahabharata were myths written by someone down the years. What about South Indian scripts ? what do they say ?
 
Thivagar said:
One of the question is, what exactly is "Hinduism" ? Is sacrificing goat in some villages part of Hinduism ? We all know that Ramayana and Mahabharata were myths written by someone down the years. What about South Indian scripts ? what do they say ?
Click to expand...

Hinduism (as we know today) is known as a way of life where anything and everything is ok. A mangled mess.

But what it really is a combination of all ideologies (ALL of which are based on TEXTS which people either don't know or ignore).

God - Brahman Ishvara
Views on monotheism - God and gender
Life - Atman Maya Karma Samsara Purusharthas (Dharma • Artha • Kama • Moksha)
Ethics - Niti shastra Yamas Niyama Ahimsa Asteya Aparigraha Brahmacharya Satya Damah Dayā Akrodha Ārjava Santosha Tapas Svādhyāya Shaucha Mitahara Dāna
Salvation - Bhakti yoga Jnana yoga Karma yoga

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hinduism

There is also stuff like Yuga Dharma (rules of a Yuga). I don't think goat sacrifice is allowed in this Yuga but it could be a cultural thing (or interpretation thing).

As for Ramayana and Mahabharata - religiously speaking, its not a myth. Bhagavat Gita is a part of Mahabharatha. The official versions are Valmiki's of Ramayana and Ved Vyas of Mahabharata. Other versions written by others are fine to read but they are not religious material.

As for Vedic texts overall....the interpretations may be different but the texts are the SAME whether you go to Kashmir or Kanyakumari.

I am speaking from a religious point of view.

Logically, one can take this as myth or real based on their views.
 
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sensible-indian-fan said:
That's not how it is in texts.

Hinduism (as it is now) is something where anything and everything is ok. Its a mismash and mixture of senseless stuff. Its just feel good stuff where someone decided "ok there are so many interpretations and so many religions....everything is the same".

Hinduism looks coolest cos that's we have turned it into what is considered cool. If Islam or Christianity do the same, they will look cool too.

But does that mean anything?

Nope.

Our texts are extremely complicated and a go a lot deeper into who you are, your relationship with God, rights, duties, etc, etc. Dharma and stuff. Its an ocean. Simplifying it into something simple is like simplifying a complex concept like quantum physics into some kiddish line and saying "this is basically that".

The thing that is good about our religion is that there are different lives for a soul and someone doesn't go to eternal hell for disbelief. He will eventually find God.

Another thing is that concepts like why is there disparity in the world, why is someone born in a priviledged family (education, etc) and someone is not is explained in depth in those texts. Our lives in this world is not the starting point or else why do we deserve an inferior or superior life compared to say someone like a kid in Africa/kid of a billionaire (of course, don't assume that kid of a billionaire is a blessed life...its there to give you an example of disparity).

I am a Brahmin but I will tell you truthfully that I wish there wasn't caste system . I am not lying. But if you are looking for reasons why its there....its said that caste systems and the main thing is your karma (past deeds). Anyone from any caste can seek God and no one must be looked down upon any of the caste. Case in point, one of the Prophets came from a lower caste just to drive home this point.

What is logical at the wordly level may not be logical at an overall level.

Was Ganga a hero or villain for killing 6 out of 7 of her kids when they were born?

Wordly logic. Villain.
Overall logic. Hero. Do read up about the 7 sages who stole cows from a Rishis, got cursed and wanted Ganga to liberate them from this curse (6 of them planned the theft so they were born as babies and killed immediately - the one who did the theft had to suffer the most punishment in Earth (for celestian bodies, life in Earth is a punishment) - the 7th one was the Great Bhishma).

Again I do wish there weren't caste systems (atleast according to my limited brain) but generally scholars refer to Itihas like Mahabharata and Ramayana for conduct of treating other castes. Its not like you can read a verse and illtreat people. Its simply not allowed.

Texts + Itihas reference + Gurus (who have studied under reputed Gurus) are the key to getting knowledge.

Things are much more complex than what it seems and I don't claim to be an authority in religious topics. The texts of Hinduism are incredibly complex with concepts like Yuga Dharma and all (the stuff that must be followed in different Yugas). Hinduism as we know it is oversimplifying it.
Click to expand...

Say a chinese or non Indian person converts to Hinduism what caste will he belong to?
 
speed said:
Say a chinese or non Indian person converts to Hinduism what caste will he belong to?
Click to expand...

He is a Hindu but not part of caste.

Actually there is nothing called as conversion to Hinduism specifically.

Belief in Vishnu as the only God would make him Vaishnavite.
Belief in Shiva and all would make him Shaivite and so on.

Anyone can be a Vaishnavite, Shaivite, etc, etc.

There is a specific event for eternal salvation (opinions may vary based on sects) after which a person doesn't have to continue with the cycle of births.

Or else he will continue with the cycle of births (based on Karma, current action) till he finds God.
 
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