Why is it easier to get along well with liberal Indians rather than right wingers?

[The Bald Eagle]

So Hindus are going around setting Hindutva zones are they?

What do you think? Go ahead and answer

 

[rpant_gabba]

It has a price tag and advanced technology. That’s not condemnation.

no clue what you are trying to convey.

 

[Red-Indian]

My friend nobody settles for the second best, when they have a footprint to be the best. You could disagree, but Islam is more tolerant and moderate when it comes to dealing with minority and realizing the principle of co-existence. I hope we are not derailing this thread because that topic itself warrants a debate

If you believe that this is a thread derailing, I'll stop but I do find your argument strange.

You agree that secular, liberal democracies are better places to live in than every Islamic State in the world today (according to Wikipedia there are 50+ of them...so a wide choice) but still don't want Pakistan to be a secular, liberal democracy today in the hope that in some mythical day in the future, it'll become the Ideal Islamic State?

I'll never understand that thinking just as I can never really understand religious people so I'll leave it at that. It's not like Pakistan has any chance of becoming either of these even in the medium term so it's a purely theoretical discussion.

 

[Stewie]

This thread is effectively derailed.
The conversation is going in 4/5 pointless directions

 

[DeadlyVenom]

This thread is effectively derailed.
The conversation is going in 4/5 pointless directions

The Indian right wingers derailed it.

It's one of the reasons they are difficult to get on with.

 

[Stewie]

The Indian right wingers derailed it.

It's one of the reasons they are difficult to get on with.

haha, by doing so they are actually proving the point of the thread, arent they? thats hilarious.

 

[The Bald Eagle]

The pseudo liberal got but hurt....

no clue what you are trying to convey.

 

[sithb]

Screw religion , be human.

Is that enough ?

 

[Stewie]

Screw religion , be human.

Is that enough ?

thats overkill and extremism as well, isnt it?

I think the biggest challenge is striking the middle ground. It does not matter what wing you identify as, top, right, bottom, left, etc as long as you dont try to screw stuff for others. Keep your religion and your pro LGBTQ++++ sentiment and the likes to yourself. Live and let live.

 

[sithb]

thats overkill and extremism as well, isnt it

When is "being human" being overkill ?

 

[Stewie]

When is "being human" being overkill ?

"screw religion" is.

you can believe it, sure you can screw your religion and be human. but telling others to do it is extremism. let them be and practice their faith.

 

[sithb]

You get the point.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

So Hindus are going around setting Hindutva zones are they?

Jews imposing Torah on everyone?

Where has that happened?

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

The state is like a machine. It is supposed to exist for all citizens, not just citizens who follow a specific religion or are part of a specific ethnic group. Therefore the state should always be secular in nature. Once a state becomes religious in nature it almost always leads to majoritarianism and the demonization of minorities.

 

[JaDed]

If you believe that this is a thread derailing, I'll stop but I do find your argument strange.

You agree that secular, liberal democracies are better places to live in than every Islamic State in the world today (according to Wikipedia there are 50+ of them...so a wide choice) but still don't want Pakistan to be a secular, liberal democracy today in the hope that in some mythical day in the future, it'll become the Ideal Islamic State?

I'll never understand that thinking just as I can never really understand religious people so I'll leave it at that. It's not like Pakistan has any chance of becoming either of these even in the medium term so it's a purely theoretical discussion.

Because that invalidates a lot of article of Pakistani Constitution..

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

You don't get put in jail for having an opinion. The US is the greatest country in the world as far as free speech is concerned.

Government will always subtly influence private entities, you can't stop that. Some like Trump are just more overt about it.

That may have been true in the past but that is fast changing. Everyone has seen how the Trump administration has dealt with pro-Palestinian protestors on college campuses. College professors have been fired, students with visas have been deported, while others have been blackballed from future job offers. In the past year, the US has dealt with anti-Israel rhetoric with an iron fist.

These days if you apply for a visa to the US in Pakistan (may be true for other Muslim countries too) you have to share links of your social media profiles with the US Embassy which are vetted for anti-Israeli content/posts. On top of that, the recent killing of Charlie Kirk also attracted the ire of the right and the Trump administration, mainly the way in which some people were happy about it, In Texas for instance, two students were expelled for mocking his death.

On top of all this you have the modern-day Gestapo aka ICE, which is frequently trampling civil liberties and basic freedoms of people who aren't white.

 

[JaDed]

The state is like a machine. It is supposed to exist for all citizens, not just citizens who follow a specific religion or are part of a specific ethnic group. Therefore the state should always be secular in nature. Once a state becomes religious in nature it almost always leads to majoritarianism and the demonization of minorities.

That’s an ideal way and always will be.

 

[Suleiman]

I have clashes with both on certain topics, and agreements on certain topics with both as well. Understandably. I don’t follow left wing or right wing doctrine. I follow Islam in every way shape or form, or at least do my best to. Naturally there will be topics I will agree/disagree with right wingers and agree/disagree with left wing or liberals. Just the way it is.

I’m ok with it as long as I’m not compromising on my faith and keeping it real. Have the same understanding with the people I know irl as well, no matter the political views they know I will talk from the pov of Islam. I Know people who identify right wing and liberals as well as moderates and interact with all- while staying true to Islam. I don’t have a reason to disagree just for the sake of it or agree just for the sake of it either.

 

[rickroll]

There are very little to none liberal Indians now .

Those who were moved abroad mostly or are actors singers .

If there are any remaining in India the Hindutva right strike them down .

This is why I emphasize that all of us Pakistanis should open their social circles and interact with South Indians (much higher percentage of liberals among them) instead of only looking at Punjab+Haryana+Delhi+Mumbai+UP people as Indians. India is big and politically diverse.

Very few Hindutva right wingers among my South Indian friends.

 

[sithb]

Even in south India , there are differences. Don't club entire south india as one homogeneous entity.

 

[Red-Indian]

Even in south India , there are differences. Don't club entire south india as one homogeneous entity.

Yeah...if they could see all the Uncles on my family WhatsApp group!

Even so, in general, religion is less of a factor to vote in the South. Not that they're 'doodh ka dhula' - a lot of voting takes place on caste, community and other equally unappetising considerations. It's just that the big flashpoint today isn't burning there.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

This is why I emphasize that all of us Pakistanis should open their social circles and interact with South Indians (much higher percentage of liberals among them) instead of only looking at Punjab+Haryana+Delhi+Mumbai+UP people as Indians. India is big and politically diverse.

Very few Hindutva right wingers among my South Indian friends.

Respectfully to them, but I don't have much in common with them, so the interaction doesn't usually get beyond a shallow level ( there are exceptions of course) although they are very nice people. Culturally, and even religiously they are alien to us.

With North Indians there is some closeness and similarity, being Punjabi myself I love interacting with people from Punjab or Haryana when I bump into them.

Up until 5-8 years ago engagement with Indian communities all around the world has generally been positive, in real life. It still is positive but I do feel that there is an initial frostiness as both sides try to work each other out. I have some close colleagues that are hardcore RSS types ( I am not joking about this) but we get on well on most issues and apart from India/Pakistan or Hindu/Muslim and in 80% of cases have shared outlook that we don't have with other communities that makes working together very easy.

 

[The Bald Eagle]

Isn't it evident from yesterday, given how blindly they follow propaganda.

 

[RexRex]

Respectfully to them, but I don't have much in common with them, so the interaction doesn't usually get beyond a shallow level ( there are exceptions of course) although they are very nice people. Culturally, and even religiously they are alien to us.

If this is how you feel about South Indians, you shouldn't get upset when white English people say the same about Muslims and their cultural incompatibility with the UK. It's the same thought process. The only difference is in the latter case, everybody will accuse them of being islamophobic if they express this very opinion.

 

[RexRex]

That may have been true in the past but that is fast changing. Everyone has seen how the Trump administration has dealt with pro-Palestinian protestors on college campuses. College professors have been fired, students with visas have been deported, while others have been blackballed from future job offers. In the past year, the US has dealt with anti-Israel rhetoric with an iron fist.

These days if you apply for a visa to the US in Pakistan (may be true for other Muslim countries too) you have to share links of your social media profiles with the US Embassy which are vetted for anti-Israeli content/posts. On top of that, the recent killing of Charlie Kirk also attracted the ire of the right and the Trump administration, mainly the way in which some people were happy about it, In Texas for instance, two students were expelled for mocking his death.

On top of all this you have the modern-day Gestapo aka ICE, which is frequently trampling civil liberties and basic freedoms of people who aren't white.

Yeah but this is again a Trump thing and a lot of americans are opposed to it and are fighting back.

 

[RexRex]

Good question appreciate, I really unequivocally want it to be an Islamic republic in true sense, not a fascist state ruled by autocrats under the garb of Islamic republic where they want immunity for life. Certainly, in no way Pakistan has been a true Islamic republic ever but just a nominal Islamic republic.

And for clarification, I don't even consider Talibans' govt the same. True Islamic republic should be based on teachings of Islam not someone's whims and desires. And this is entirely feasible notion as we can look up to the example of governance of pious caliphs of Islam and Prophet Muhammad (PBUH).

So the answer is - you still want Pak to remain an Islamic republic ... in which case, nobody is going to take your opinions on Indian secularism seriously. Atleast, no Indian will.

 

[RexRex]

Nobody knows what’s an Islamic state. Do you?
Even Muslims don’t know what an “Islamic state” really looks like.

Limiting criticism of Islam or making caricatures is one example .. as evidenced in post #136 authored by rpant_gabba.

 

[RexRex]

If they do then they would have to do it through the politcal system of democracy. This is something you believe in I assume.

But the British people don't want an islamic state (aka sharia laws), even if it comes through the political system of democracy.

 

[RexRex]

This hypothetically question has been answered thousands of times before so read and make a specific and clear objection, in this case you are discussing a hypothetical and unlikely political situation but here it is

In Politics, people will vote to elect members who will draft the laws of the land which can be challenged in the Courts of the land.

A Muslim who damages any place of worship (Muslim or non-Muslim) or does vigilantism will be arrested, charged and punished and the damage will be referred to whatever National mechanism (Insurance) etc.

In your mind, you are mixing politics and Jihad but let me tell you about the other scenario which you actually fear:

In some country of Europe, Muslims overthrow the Government, take military control and impose Qur'aan and Sunnah (in your mind Shariah Law) what happens:​

1. Shariah law does not apply to Non-Muslims so they will continue with their lives, their religion and their places of worship​
2. They will have the autonomy to decide their civil matters according to their belief so however a Hindu, Christian, Jew, Sikh, Atheist wants to distribute his/her inheritance it has nothing to do with Islam.​
3. They will pay Jizyah and Muslims will pay Zakat, the common taxation (property, cars, transport etc) will be equally payable by both​

A Muslim who damages any place of worship (Muslim or non-Muslim) or does vigilantism will be arrested, charged and punished and the damage will be paid by the Muslim state and repairs done.

There are dozens of examples like this in Islamic history where Muslim in vigilante zeal damaged Alcohol (of Non-Muslims) were arrested, tried and punished and Muslim state replenished the Alcohol (which you well know is forbidden in Islam). ​

Justify your question from evidence from Qur'aan and Sunnah and primary sources of Islam and not from what you learn from WhatsApp! What happens in Pakistan, Afghanistan, Syria etc is not necessarily Islam just like every illegal act committed in India or by a Hindu is not necessarily a representation of Hinduism.

^ A complete non-answer to what I asked. Thanks for the deflection.

 

[tiger_khan]

There are very little to none liberal Indians now .

Those who were moved abroad mostly or are actors singers .

If there are any remaining in India the Hindutva right strike them down .

I used to think that way too but when you dg deeper it's not accurate.

According to my observation, only one-third of the India is right-winged. However, the political structure and mechanics of India are as such that you could be only one-third of the country and still create a majority government.

Once you create a majority government, you can act like a tyrant and persecute opposition and control the Indian media.


The biggest issue that India faces is that the left is very divided. Too many many regional parties in the left. On the other hand, there is only one right-winged party with a strong base.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

If this is how you feel about South Indians, you shouldn't get upset when white English people say the same about Muslims and their cultural incompatibility with the UK. It's the same thought process. The only difference is in the latter case, everybody will accuse them of being islamophobic if they express this very opinion.

I'm not sure of the relevance.

White English invited us over to live with them

I was addressing a comment saying Pakistani origin people should voluntarily build relations with South Indians over North.

 

[RexRex]

Why is it has to be always extreme punishment for some to agree that freedom of speech has declined in the US?

The concept of 'freedom of speech' means the government shouldn't prevent you from making opinions - the only way they can do that is by jailing you. Every other obstacle the government creates can be remedied by the free market.

 

[RexRex]

I'm not sure of the relevance.

White English invited us over to live with them

I was addressing a comment saying Pakistani origin people should voluntarily build relations with South Indians over North.

I'm saying white people have similiar opinions of seeing other cultures as alien but they're immediately called islamophobic when they express such an opinion.

It's more of a side-commentary on our innate desi hypocrisies tbh rather than a rebuttal to you. Nevermind.

 

[LordJames]

^ A complete non-answer to what I asked. Thanks for the deflection.

Last line 3 lines

Justify your question from evidence from Qur'aan and Sunnah and primary sources of Islam and not from what you learn from WhatsApp! What happens in Pakistan, Afghanistan, Syria etc is not necessarily Islam just like every illegal act committed in India or by a Hindu is not necessarily a representation of Hinduism.

Summarized here:

1. Ask a clear question
2. If your objection is related to Islam, provide clear evidence that it is an Islamic principle which you are questioning and the source.

Its easier then ranting on a daily basis!

 

[DeadlyVenom]

I'm saying white people have similiar opinions of seeing other cultures as alien but they're immediately called islamophobic when they express such an opinion.

It's more of a side-commentary on our innate desi hypocrisies tbh rather than a rebuttal to you. Nevermind.

I have no problems with it. It's very obviously alien. Aspects of their (white British) culture are alien to me too.

As long as we treat each other with respect, don't discriminate or abuse based on these cultural variances then I don't really mind what they think.

Btw thinking aspects of Islamic culture are alien isn't islamophobic. Acting on it to treat Muslims negatively, stereotype them, or deprived them of opportunities is where the Islamophobia starts.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Yeah but this is again a Trump thing and a lot of americans are opposed to it and are fighting back.

That is true, and tbh, the US is still one of the freest countries in the world. But I'm just not sure if I would consider in the most free. Criticism of Israel is still something that is often met with a brutal reprisal. TV anchors have lost jobs over it, people have been blackballed in different industries because of it, while others are branded as 'antisemitic'. Also, while there is freedom of speech the fact that it can so easily repressed tells you that American leaders are more adept at it as compared to leaders from other countries who do it with complete obviousness. A good example of this is the 2003 Iraq War where the US manipulated public opinion through the media and intellectuals in favor of a war based on a complete lie.

 

[HalBass9]

The concept of 'freedom of speech' means the government shouldn't prevent you from making opinions - the only way they can do that is by jailing you. Every other obstacle the government creates can be remedied by the free market.

No!

 

[Stewie]

Limiting criticism of Islam or making caricatures is one example .. as evidenced in post #136 authored by rpant_gabba.

Which is an incorrect or flawed statement to begin with.

Surah 15:25 ("And do not insult those they invoke other than Allah, lest they insult Allah in enmity without knowledge").

Islam does not limit this command towards criticism of Islam only. Now is that supposed to be part of state laws under Sharia? I don’t know. Islam gives you guidance on some matters as an individual and some as a society. So perhaps better schooled folks can shed some light on it.

But this was a good exercise in displaying how people here, Hindus in particular are absolutely misguided, ill-informed or simply uneducated on this topic.

First we need to agree on what exactly will sharia laws look like when imposed on a modern day society. Will we ask all females to cover themselves head to toe? Can they leave the house by themselves. Can they hold leadership roles in any capacity.

Bottom line is nobody knows for sure. Unless we clarify the misconceptions of Hindus here, as well as Muslims — we cannot proceed with this debate. And even if we do, you are still dealing in hypotheticals.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

But the British people don't want an islamic state (aka sharia laws), even if it comes through the political system of democracy.

Well if they don't want one, then they won't get one. What is the issue here?

 

[The Bald Eagle]

So the answer is - you still want Pak to remain an Islamic republic ... in which case, nobody is going to take your opinions on Indian secularism seriously. Atleast, no Indian will.

Mr Rex, the parallel between Pakistan and an Islamic republic is same as between Goldberg and Gilberg. No matter what one may pretend, just words alone can't change the nature of things

 

[Stewie]

Well if they don't want one, then they won't get one. What is the issue here?

these Hindus are trying to say that in the eventuality muslims are in majority in Britain, they can or will vote for sharia law.

when he used the word "British" he is referring to white christian or non denominational british people there.
hope that helps.

personally, i think the hindus have their panties in a bunch over nothing. they have issues with muslims in India and they are trying to extrapolate that to muslim communities in other countries.

 

[RizwanT20Champ]

Right wingers overall tend to have lower IQ as is proven by studies and research. Left is more nuanced and logical. This is why 3rd world countries are mostly right leaning and the developed ones are the other way.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

these Hindus are trying to say that in the eventuality muslims are in majority in Britain, they can or will vote for sharia law.

when he used the word "British" he is referring to white christian or non denominational british people there.
hope that helps.

personally, i think the hindus have their panties in a bunch over nothing. they have issues with muslims in India and they are trying to extrapolate that to muslim communities in other countries.

Muslims form 6% of the UK, they are a long way off being any majority, and even then it is a long stretch to imagine they will all want Sharia. If white Christians don't want areas becoming more ethnic they should stop selling up and moving to countries like Spain, France, Australia etc. You can't have it both ways.

 

[RizwanT20Champ]

Muslims form 6% of the UK, they are a long way off being any majority, and even then it is a long stretch to imagine they will all want Sharia. If white Christians don't want areas becoming more ethnic they should stop selling up and moving to countries like Spain, France, Australia etc. You can't have it both ways.

It is just fear mongering by our head nodding neighbors. Only spanner in the works is that our UK brothers do not always give us a good name.

 

[Stewie]

It is just fear mongering by our head nodding neighbors. Only spanner in the works is that our UK brothers do not always give us a good name.

Muslims form 6% of the UK, they are a long way off being any majority, and even then it is a long stretch to imagine they will all want Sharia. If white Christians don't want areas becoming more ethnic they should stop selling up and moving to countries like Spain, France, Australia etc. You can't have it both ways.

Like I said, the hindu posters like to spread this nonsense purely because of their prejudice/issues with indian muslims back home which are a different breed and behave differently. this is pure and simple unjustified extrapolation and conjecture. nothing to gain from debating this hypothetical which has nothing in common with other situations except that we are talking about muslims, so in a way its a very broad stereotyping as well.

 

[RexRex]

nothing to gain from debating this hypothetical which has nothing in common with other situations except that we are talking about muslims

There is absolutely nothing wrong with talking about hypotheticals. It's impossible to have debates or discussions without them. But given how queasy and defensive you get when discussing all things Islam related, I probably shouldn't have tagged you .. my bad. You are excused from this thread, Stewie.

 

[Stewie]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with talking about hypotheticals. It's impossible to have debates or discussions without them. But given how queasy and defensive you get when discussing all things Islam related, I probably shouldn't have tagged you .. my bad. You are excused from this thread, Stewie.

Did I touch a nerve there by candidly pointing out this theory you are continuously trying to push here is spread by Hindus? Does my usage of the term "Hindus" or "Hindoos" to describe those who keep trying to bash this stuff in our heads here kind of put you off?

Do you identify as an athiest and more of a cultural Hindu or not even Hindu at all? I am sorry if I somehow offended you.

Your reaction, however, does not qualify as a mature debate response. It is by and large a hypothetical borne of misplaced fears and prejudice and there is absolutely a lot wrong with it.

if I create a thread questioning Hindus and ghar waapsi is a dangerous trend and could result in all of us being eliminated in the lands of pakistan and BD and risk being turned into cow urine drinking, lungi wearing half naked pujaris, that would offend you too.

if it doesnt, hats off to you, my friend!

 

[RexRex]

Did I touch a nerve there by candidly pointing out this theory you are continuously trying to push here is spread by Hindus? Does my usage of the term "Hindus" or "Hindoos" to describe those who keep trying to bash this stuff in our heads here kind of put you off?

Do you identify as an athiest and more of a cultural Hindu or not even Hindu at all? I am sorry if I somehow offended you.

Your reaction, however, does not qualify as a mature debate response. It is by and large a hypothetical borne of misplaced fears and prejudice and there is absolutely a lot wrong with it.

if I create a thread questioning Hindus and ghar waapsi is a dangerous trend and could result in all of us being eliminated in the lands of pakistan and BD and risk being turned into cow urine drinking, lungi wearing half naked pujaris, that would offend you too.

if it doesnt, hats off to you, my friend!

I like you Stewie but you get triggered too easily when simple questions are asked, which not a good quality to have on a message board. Not going to reply about all the hindu-related stuff u mentioned because it is not my religion. Save it for someone who is. Although .. I can't blame you for it. The term India and Hindu has become synonymous given that it 80% of India is hindu.

 

[Stewie]

I like you Stewie but you get triggered too easily when simple questions are asked, which not a good quality to have on a message board. Not going to reply about all the hindu-related stuff u mentioned because it is not my religion. Save it for someone who is. Although .. I can't blame you for it. The term India and Hindu has become synonymous given that it 80% of India is hindu.

Your immediate reaction to my response was to excuse me from this thread as if you own everything around here. So I wonder who is getting triggered.

All I said was this refrain you use, is the one commonly used by Hindu zealots while describing Muslims in India. Whether you yourself are a Hindu or not, identify as a cultural Hindu or not, does not change this possibility of you being influenced by this theory. However, you are dismissing my views and alleging I am being "triggered". Others, and even I would believe such an allegation if I had downright argued "against" this theory. I am just saying its not "practical" or even possible and based on a hypotehtical. Then you continued to insist and say we should discuss even if its a hypoethetical.

WOW, just, wow. I wonder who is really being triggered here. You are simply projecting as well as extrapolating based on dubious conjecture. But you like to preach about having meaningful debates. Seriously?

 

[The_KING]

From my experience living in the UK and interacting with many Indians over the years, it is because liberal Indians:

1) Don't hate Muslims
2) Aren't blind fanboys of Modi
3) Can actually criticise their country when warranted.

It is much easier to get along with such people.

 

[Stewie]

From my experience living in the UK and interacting with many Indians over the years, it is because liberal Indians:

1) Don't hate Muslims
2) Aren't blind fanboys of Modi
3) Can actually criticise their country when warranted.

It is much easier to get along with such people.

A liberal hindu may believe in the economic policies of Modi and support him. He may not agree with his political vilification of Muslims. There are some such friends of mine and we get long great. Just like I get long ok with some who support the military establishment in Pakistan.

You know why? because none of them try to hit you with stupid hypotheticals and push you to answer like some Hindu posters here are trying to do.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with talking about hypotheticals. It's impossible to have debates or discussions without them. But given how queasy and defensive you get when discussing all things Islam related, I probably shouldn't have tagged you .. my bad. You are excused from this thread, Stewie.

But the question you asked was dumb on a couple of levels. Firstly, as I already pointed out, there is only a 6% Muslim population in the UK so they can't magically vote in sharia law if the British people don't want it.

Secondly, even if they could somehow muster the votes then...well that is how democracy works. Even then you are assuming that Muslims down the generations will pick Sharia over whatever system is in place right now. I mean hypotheticals is fine, but at least they should follow some logic.

 

[LordJames]

A liberal hindu may believe in the economic policies of Modi and support him. He may not agree with his political vilification of Muslims. There are some such friends of mine and we get long great. Just like I get long ok with some who support the military establishment in Pakistan.

You know why? because none of them try to hit you with stupid hypotheticals and push you to answer like some Hindu posters here are trying to do.

People often behave differently in person than they do online, where anonymity can embolden them.

To truly understand the challenges faced by Muslims in India, one would need to experience what it’s like to live, work, and study there as a Muslim, where many individuals report being unfairly labeled or treated with suspicion.

It’s also important to recognize that the kindness and courtesy shown by individuals abroad don’t always reflect the realities on the ground. While many people of all backgrounds interact respectfully in countries like the U.S., this can differ from the situation in India, where there have been serious concerns about systemic discrimination and bias against Muslims.

Even if a small, progressive segment of society engages positively with Pakistani or Muslim communities overseas, that doesn’t erase the hardships and discrimination many Indian Muslims reportedly face in their daily lives back home.

When a Hindu smiles at you at any Indian Grocery store while you are shopping with your "Hijabi wife' by all means smile back but know that this is the reality and experience of millions of Indian Muslims who are humiliated and subjugated on a daily basis on the streets of India​

 

[The Bald Eagle]

From my experience living in the UK and interacting with many Indians over the years, it is because liberal Indians:

1) Don't hate Muslims
2) Aren't blind fanboys of Modi
3) Can actually criticise their country when warranted.

It is much easier to get along with such people.

Hit the nail on the head brother

 

[JaDed]

Your immediate reaction to my response was to excuse me from this thread as if you own everything around here. So I wonder who is getting triggered.

All I said was this refrain you use, is the one commonly used by Hindu zealots while describing Muslims in India. Whether you yourself are a Hindu or not, identify as a cultural Hindu or not, does not change this possibility of you being influenced by this theory. However, you are dismissing my views and alleging I am being "triggered". Others, and even I would believe such an allegation if I had downright argued "against" this theory. I am just saying its not "practical" or even possible and based on a hypotehtical. Then you continued to insist and say we should discuss even if its a hypoethetical.

WOW, just, wow. I wonder who is really being triggered here. You are simply projecting as well as extrapolating based on dubious conjecture. But you like to preach about having meaningful debates. Seriously?

What if he is christian will your post change?

 

[RexRex]

But the question you asked was dumb on a couple of levels. Firstly, as I already pointed out, there is only a 6% Muslim population in the UK so they can't magically vote in sharia law if the British people don't want it.

It wasn't dumb. You have comprehension problems, Cpt.

Read the original post again. I clearly said "muslim-majority" meaning a future scenario when they become more than 50% in the UK or US.

Secondly, even if they could somehow muster the votes then...well that is how democracy works. Even then you are assuming that Muslims down the generations will pick Sharia over whatever system is in place right now.

I didn't assume it, I ASKED you if that is what they would want. You could have just said no.

And I made my reasons clear for asking - because Islam is a political religion unlike other religions. I told @The Bald Eagle that they should make Pakistan's constitution secular and give equal status to all religions and he refused.

 

[The Bald Eagle]

It wasn't dumb. You have comprehension problems, Cpt.

Read the original post again. I clearly said "muslim-majority" meaning a future scenario when they become more than 50% in the UK or US.



I didn't assume it, I ASKED you if that is what they would want. You could have just said no.

And I made my reasons clear for asking - because Islam is a political religion unlike other religions. I told @The Bald Eagle that they should make Pakistan's constitution secular and give equal status to all religions and he refused.

First secularism is all about tolerance and peaceful coexistence among believers of different religions
So a simple question Mr Rex: Does Islam deny this?

 

[RexRex]

What if he is christian will your post change?

Don't bother.

such a snowflake.. the guy melts under the mildest questioning

 

[The Bald Eagle]

Guys let's continue with amicable discourse... Instead of personal jibes when losing it

 

[RexRex]

First secularism is all about tolerance and peaceful coexistence among believers of different religions
So a simple question Mr Rex: Does Islam deny this?

I am talking about the law here. All faiths should be given the same rights before the law.

 

[The Bald Eagle]

I am talking about the law here. All faiths should be given the same rights before the law.

Yes except Ahmadis, people of all faith enjoy same rights. With the exception that they can't be PM or President

 

[Hellion]

Yes except Ahmadis, people of all faith enjoy same rights. With the exception that they can't be PM or President

If there are exceptions, then you are not equal before law.

 

[Stewie]

What if he is christian will your post change?

Does it matter? It seems very clear to me that most indians have made it a point to paint Muslims as the evil ones with a wider brush, cultural Hindus as you can witness from. the sentiment posted here by other Muslims.

We dont live in India but we have dealt with enough Indian Muslims to understand their plight. The islamophobes continue to pose such questions here, some downright hypothetical ones which is akin to putting words in our mouths.

This is the same stuff we see when we advocate for Palestinians and try to bring their genocide out in the open and immediately get asked "Do you support HAMAS?"

This is the same nonsense. Why do we even bother. It is not as if our responses would help change your perception of Muslims. Most of you have pretty deeply embedded prejudice. When we point this out we immediately get lablled "triggered"

Unfortunately thats the theme of the forum here and has been for a number of years now. I remember things used to be much simpler and easier pre 2010 or so. I wonder why!!!

 

[Stewie]

Don't bother.

such a snowflake.. the guy melts under the mildest questioning

so says the cultural Hindu

 

[JaDed]

Does it matter? It seems very clear to me that most indians have made it a point to paint Muslims as the evil ones with a wider brush, cultural Hindus as you can witness from. the sentiment posted here by other Muslims.

We dont live in India but we have dealt with enough Indian Muslims to understand their plight. The islamophobes continue to pose such questions here, some downright hypothetical ones which is akin to putting words in our mouths.

This is the same stuff we see when we advocate for Palestinians and try to bring their genocide out in the open and immediately get asked "Do you support HAMAS?"

This is the same nonsense. Why do we even bother. It is not as if our responses would help change your perception of Muslims. Most of you have pretty deeply embedded prejudice. When we point this out we immediately get lablled "triggered"

Unfortunately thats the theme of the forum here and has been for a number of years now. I remember things used to be much simpler and easier pre 2010 or so. I wonder why!!!

I have met many Pakistanis to know their perception of Hindus.. yet I’m hopeful not everyone has that perception.

It’s upto you to think how Hindu Indians view Muslims.. a lot of it is your personal opinion because in Indian society day to day life is still filled with Hindu Sikhs Muslims Christians Parsis Jains being friends with each other.. all of them can have opinions about each other..linguistic ,ethnic differences are part of life there

 

[LordJames]

I have met many Pakistanis to know their perception of Hindus.. yet I’m hopeful not everyone has that perception.

It’s upto you to think how Hindu Indians view Muslims.. a lot of it is your personal opinion because in Indian society day to day life is still filled with Hindu Sikhs Muslims Christians Parsis Jains being friends with each other.. all of them can have opinions about each other..linguistic ,ethnic differences are part of life there

Sounds a lot like Whites saying in America "I have a Black Friend..."

 

[The Bald Eagle]

If there are exceptions, then you are not equal before law.

So you want a non Muslim to lead an Islamic republic, right?

 

[JaDed]

Sounds a lot like Whites saying in America "I have a Black Friend..."

Did i say I have a friend who is so and so?

Im highlighting that friendships exist beyond religion , and I said ethnic and linguistic which you ignored..

 

[Stewie]

I have met many Pakistanis to know their perception of Hindus.. yet I’m hopeful not everyone has that perception.

It’s upto you to think how Hindu Indians view Muslims.. a lot of it is your personal opinion because in Indian society day to day life is still filled with Hindu Sikhs Muslims Christians Parsis Jains being friends with each other.. all of them can have opinions about each other..linguistic ,ethnic differences are part of life there

Knowing one personally and being friends with them has no bearing on how a minority is treated overall in a society, now does it?

I know a lot of white conservative MAGA folks who are cordial with me in real life but as a combined group if given the option we all know how they feel about Muslims or brown minorities in general. The world is unfortunately very polarized.

You can get a feel for that by simply viewing the topics of discussion here these days with how it used to be around 2000s. The polarity and divisiveness has gone up exponentially.

 

[RexRex]

so says the cultural Hindu

Considering that everybody from the subcontinent was originally some form of hindu, you are a cultural hindu as well.

 

[JaDed]

Knowing one personally and being friends with them has no bearing on how a minority is treated overall in a society, now does it?

I know a lot of white conservative MAGA folks who are cordial with me in real life but as a combined group if given the option we all know how they feel about Muslims or brown minorities in general. The world is unfortunately very polarized.

You can get a feel for that by simply viewing the topics of discussion here these days with how it used to be around 2000s. The polarity and divisiveness has gone up exponentially.

World has always been polarized, if it wasn’t 1947-1948 would had happened in South Asia or in middle east.

It’s us who choose to get into our own echo chambers, American society is way more pluralistic now than in 1965,1992 etc etc

 

[Stewie]

Considering that everybody from the subcontinent was originally some form of hindu, you are a cultural hindu as well.

Some Pakistanis have actually made a conscientious effort to delineate our identity from Indians and dumping the hindu practices from our society, no offense. I am sure you celebrate the Hindu culture prolifically but some of us do not. In particular the pathans and balochis are far from typical Hindu cultural norms

 

[LordJames]

Did i say I have a friend who is so and so?

Im highlighting that friendships exist beyond religion , and I said ethnic and linguistic which you ignored..

The current situation of Muslims in India (as of November 2025) is deeply troubling, marked by systemic oppression, social marginalization, and increasing repression across many layers of society. No amount of diplomatic language or online reassurance from a handful of Indians toward the Pakistani or broader Muslim diaspora can conceal the harsh and painful reality on the ground.

There are Muslims who were born in front of and grew up in front of Hindus in India and yet after Delhi incident they are subjected to suspicions and have to prove their loyalty to India.
​

Some Pakistanis have actually made a conscientious effort to delineate our identity from Indians and dumping the hindu practices from our society, no offense. I am sure you celebrate the Hindu culture prolifically but some of us do not. In particular the pathans and balochis are far from typical Hindu cultural norms

So have Indian Kashmiri Muslims in particular.

​

 

[JaDed]

The current situation of Muslims in India (as of November 2025) is deeply troubling, marked by systemic oppression, social marginalization, and increasing repression across many layers of society. No amount of diplomatic language or online reassurance from a handful of Indians toward the Pakistani or broader Muslim diaspora can conceal the harsh and painful reality on the ground.

There are Muslims who were born in front of and grew up in front of Hindus in India and yet after Delhi incident they are subjected to suspicions and have to prove their loyalty to India.
​

So have Indian Kashmiri Muslims in particular.

​

Yes Muslims are doing well only in Pakistan..

 

[RexRex]

Some Pakistanis have actually made a conscientious effort to delineate our identity from Indians and dumping the hindu practices from our society, no offense. I am sure you celebrate the Hindu culture prolifically but some of us do not.

Islam began sometime in 700 AD. Christianity in India began in 50 AD. Theoretically, my ancestors were about atleast 600 years more separated from hinduism than your ancestors were.

 

[Stewie]

Islam began sometime in 700 AD. Christianity in India began in 50 AD. Theoretically, my ancestors were about atleast 600 years more separated from hinduism than your ancestors were.

"Theoretically", indeed. You live in a majority hindu society and have learnt to embrace their customs whereas as Pakistanis, we have made an effort to diverge from that path.

My observtion is based on very specific views and bias that you have exhibited here which is very much inline with the modern day Hindu/Indian school of thought. It is anti-Muslim and anti-Pakistan. Every single topic of debate you guys start on the forum is centered around that bias. Pakistanis are the same way, we tend to pooh pooh everything Indian. But it is quite clear to me that we make no bones about it but you seem to live in a fantasy world where you think you dont have that bias towards pakistanis and muslims. You are afterall an indian and a cultural hindu.

 

[RexRex]

My observtion is based on very specific views and bias that you have exhibited here which is very much inline with the modern day Hindu/Indian school of thought. It is anti-Muslim and anti-Pakistan. Every single topic of debate you guys start on the forum is centered around that bias. Pakistanis are the same way, we tend to pooh pooh everything Indian. But it is quite clear to me that we make no bones about it but you seem to live in a fantasy world where you think you dont have that bias towards pakistanis and muslims. You are afterall an indian and a cultural hindu.

lol ..you are projecting all kinds of prejudices and extraneous motivations onto me. Like I said, you are a deeply insecure softy. Perhaps your faith is weak and you have doubts ? Maybe try another religion I dunno.

I will pray for your disturbed soul, Stewie. Take care, I'm gonna take a nap

 

[Stewie]

lol ..you are projecting all kinds of prejudices and extraneous motivations onto me. Like I said, you are a deeply insecure softy. Perhaps your faith is weak and you have doubts ? Maybe try another religion I dunno.

I will pray for your disturbed soul, Stewie. Take care, I'm gonna take a nap

so says the cultural hindu/ self-proclaimed christian trying to drag Muslims into negative hypotheticals. Thats ok. read your Bible and read what it says about how to behave with your fellow man, especially a fellow person of the book. Dont follow the Hindu extremist propaganda about us Muslims.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

It wasn't dumb. You have comprehension problems, Cpt.

Read the original post again. I clearly said "muslim-majority" meaning a future scenario when they become more than 50% in the UK or US.



I didn't assume it, I ASKED you if that is what they would want. You could have just said no.

And I made my reasons clear for asking - because Islam is a political religion unlike other religions. I told @The Bald Eagle that they should make Pakistan's constitution secular and give equal status to all religions and he refused.

Both these presumptions are dumb though. I already answered that Muslims are 6% of the population, so on what fairy tale basis would this unfold? What makes you think Muslims who would choose to live in the UK would be wanting to impose Sharia law?

You can pretend to change your intention for asking as much as you like, but why would you even be coming up with such scenarios? Even if such a fantastical sequence occured, isn't that how democracy works?

 

[rpant_gabba]

@The Bald Eagle would you mind defining what are the attributes of a Indian liberal?

I get the sense that your primary definition is one who is willing to overlook Pak shenanigans like MKG.

Still waiting.