'Muslims unfit to be US President; their faith inconsistent with American principles' : Ben Carson

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Pakistan is the epitome of hypocrisy in this world, as are mainstream Muslims.

Countless individuals value themselves more than non-Muslims as they are better.

If one actually believes in religion, then they believe all humans are created equal, but then the pretentiousness of being a Muslim, therefore being better than non-Muslims, is not even understanding their own religion.

Everyone picks and chooses what they want to believe and are hypocrites left and right.

Pakistanis think Americans are bad the moment they utter a word about Muslims and belittling them, which morally of course is correct, but never inflect and think they do the same thing to any culture or religion that is not their own as well.

We as a people continually sit on a high horse simply because we are Pakistani and Muslim and hold values, and do not realize that that in and of itself is hypocrisy and diminishes the value of our thoughts and opinions.

This isn't necessarily a Pakistani notion, most if not all nations, cultures, peoples and religions are hypocrites and self indulgent.

This is definitely true of me and I am quite proud to be like the rest of my brothers in humanity.

 

[Markhor]

Yes because US has Christian roots. Same reason why UK will not see a muslim PM.

But atleast Muslims are not barred from the top office by the constitution as in the case of non Muslims in Muslim countries

Article 6 of the US constitution - no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States. Carson isn't saying this because of his pride for his Christian roots but to appease the religious right-wing zealots that make up the Republican Party base.

He's trying out-zealot Trump and Huckabee and its pathetic as is the justifications some posters are making on here for this empty vessel of a politician. There's nothing to stop a Muslim becoming Prime Minister here in the UK either.

What's funny is that Pakistani-Americans are solid Republican supporters. Most Pakistanis voted for Bush in 2000 and many Pakistani-American doctors are strongly opposed to Obamacare.

Only some young hippy type Pak-Americans support Obama.

91% of Pakistani-Americans supported Obama at the 2012 elections - must be a lot of young hippy types then.

Carson voiced his opinion. By law, any Muslim can run for Presidency. Can the same be said about Islamic nations?

Which Islamic nation goes around claiming its a paragon of virtue, an oasis of freedom and liberty like the United States ?

Thing about the Saudis and the Qataris is that at least they don't pretend they're something other than what they are - barbaric religious authoritarians. Its another example of US politician's latent hypocrisy.

 

[Varun]

Lol... the President is not the leader of the public.. and Sikh puppet PM ?

Every politico has been a douchebag, even the Hindu ones. Your point is?

 

[Thivagar]

Will we let a Hindu/Christian be our PM or President?

Then why are we questioning other countries..

Not the same brother, we are well aware that a Christian in Pakistan will never become a President, same goes for a Hindu in SL and a Muslim in India. But for a presidential candidate to come on live TV and say "People for X religion is not suitable to run for presidency" is very discriminatory. Imagine Modi or Imran Khan for example saying.

 

[tempus123]

Every politico has been a douchebag, even the Hindu ones. Your point is?

Just pointing out that having a Muslim President doesn't show anything since he is not the leader of the public.

Also the Sikh PM didn't even win the election of lok sabha.. being a puppet PM .. he was not considered a leader ever.. but that's not a strong argument I agree.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Article 6 of the US constitution - no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States. Carson isn't saying this because of his pride for his Christian roots but to appease the religious right-wing zealots that make up the Republican Party base.

He's trying out-zealot Trump and Huckabee and its pathetic as is the justifications some posters are making on here for this empty vessel of a politician. There's nothing to stop a Muslim becoming Prime Minister here in the UK either.



91% of Pakistani-Americans supported Obama at the 2012 elections - must be a lot of young hippy types then.


Which Islamic nation goes around claiming its a paragon of virtue, an oasis of freedom and liberty like the United States ?

Thing about the Saudis and the Qataris is that at least they don't pretend they're something other than what they are - barbaric religious authoritarians. Its another example of US politician's latent hypocrisy.

So?Islamic countries are a above and beyond the basic requirement of providing equal rights to people of every religion but then people of these countries can migrate to other nations and enjoy and demand the same rights they dont provide others in their own country.That sir is hypocrisy and about time muslims realise it.Because this world is based on give and take.

 

[ChachaCricket]

I don't disagree.

 

[filthyfulltoss]

Nope I'm absolutely fine with this. It means all the liberal Muslims and atheists Pakistani Americans who are always trumpeting about how well they are regarded in the US are getting a good kick in their pants from their American compatriots.

Go Bill Carson!

Does Queen Elizabeth cradle you in her arms? shooo cute.

 

[CricketCartoons]

USA is bit like Imran Khan, and rest of countries are like Nawaz and Zardari. It will always be subject to highest level of scrutiny because of the standards it sets for itself, while others will get the long rope because they don't claim to be paragons of virtue.

 

[Markhor]

So?Islamic countries are a above and beyond the basic requirement of providing equal rights to people of every religion but then people of these countries can migrate to other nations and enjoy and demand the same rights they dont provide others in their own country.That sir is hypocrisy and about time muslims realise it.Because this world is based on give and take.

Its not impossible to criticise both the idiotic anti-minority policies of some Muslim countries and the idiotic anti-minority comments of Western politicians.

 

[TM Riddle]

Not the same brother, we are well aware that a Christian in Pakistan will never become a President, same goes for a Hindu in SL and a Muslim in India. But for a presidential candidate to come on live TV and say "People for X religion is not suitable to run for presidency" is very discriminatory. Imagine Modi or Imran Khan for example saying.

India has had Muslim presidents in the past.4 actually.

 

[chacha kashmiri]

So?Islamic countries are a above and beyond the basic requirement of providing equal rights to people of every religion but then people of these countries can migrate to other nations and enjoy and demand the same rights they dont provide others in their own country.That sir is hypocrisy and about time muslims realise it.Because this world is based on give and take.

Lebanon has to have a Christian president
Tariq aziz the Iraqi was Christian
Youssef wahba was an Egyptian pm


Point, game and set
Hypocrisy claim overruled

Now we can call it for what it is
Racism the likes the black community have not even encountered in the u.s when they had to stand on buses

 

[cricketjoshila]

Lebanon has to have a Christian president
Tariq aziz the Iraqi was Christian
Youssef wahba was an Egyptian pm


Point, game and set
Hypocrisy claim overruled

Now we can call it for what it is
Racism the likes the black community have not even encountered in the u.s when they had to stand on buses

Till some years back Lebanon was a christian majority nation and even now non muslims make about 46% of population and Lebanon is not an Islamic republic so the example is flawed.

Tariq Aziz was an appointee of a dictator.

Youssuf Wahba was PM of Egypt when it was protectorate of a Protestant ruled Nation called Great Britain.

Bluff called.

Point still stands Islamic countries dont allow non muslims the same rights as muslims but enjoy and demand same rights themselves when they go to non islamic secular nations.

 

[Saeed]

Makes no difference, Muslims still can become the U.S. President. Carson just needs to understand that as a Black man he will not get the nomination in GOP.

 

[chacha kashmiri]

Till some years back Lebanon was a christian majority nation and even now non muslims make about 46% of population and Lebanon is not an Islamic republic so the example is flawed.

Tariq Aziz was an appointee of a dictator.

Youssuf Wahba was PM of Egypt when it was protectorate of a Protestant ruled Nation called Great Britain.

Bluff called.

Point still stands Islamic countries dont allow non muslims the same rights as muslims but enjoy and demand same rights themselves when they go to non islamic secular nations.

I've given you 3 examples
You can blow your horn as much as you want
Similarly for India I can say they have had Muslim presidents simply because the only great heritage they've been left with is that of Muslims during the Mughal period

Others include historically daud pasha, Al fadl ibn Marwan
And also Jews in muslim Spain such as Hasdai ibn sharput And Samuel ibn Naghrela


In Syria recently there has been dawoud rajiha and previously Fares Al khoury who was pm In 1950

 

[cricketjoshila]

I've given you 3 examples
You can blow your horn as much as you want
Similarly for India I can say they have had Muslim presidents simply because the only great heritage they've been left with is that of Muslims during the Mughal period

Others include historically daud pasha, Al fadl ibn Marwan
And also Jews in muslim Spain such as Hasdai ibn sharput And Samuel ibn Naghrela


In Syria recently there has been dawoud rajiha and previously Fares Al khoury who was pm In 1950

Only great heritage left was of Mughals?Where did you read this history?Go read history of India,the civilization starts from Indus Valley Civilization almost 5000 years back.Mughal rule is only a small part of it.

Man youhave to go back as far as Muslim rule of Spain or people like Al Khoury who was PM for 1 year.

The only example that is worth is of Dawood Rajiha.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Mughals left a great heritage? Hilarious. They did not build any institution on education. Too busy indulging themselves in building monuments of worship and tombs. The British invested in education and did far greater service.

 

[Fallen King]

USA is bit like Imran Khan, and rest of countries are like Nawaz and Zardari. It will always be subject to highest level of scrutiny because of the standards it sets for itself, while others will get the long rope because they don't claim to be paragons of virtue.

That reminds me of the comparison thread i have read recently between Imran Khan and Donald Trump earlier. Thank for the reminder.

 

[Markhor]

If a British or another European politician said this it would be an automatic resignation. Infact anyone with a shred of integrity would've resigned. What Ben Carson said was not only against his own constitution but should immediately disqualify himself from the GOP race but such is the ingraining of Islamophobia in US society that nobody bats an eyelid.

So-called 'moderate' Mitt Romney made a comment about how he wouldn't have Muslims in his Cabinet in 2008. Now replace the word 'Muslims' with 'Jews' - and think of the uproar it'd generate. Carson is a total Uncle Tom, a self-hating black man and his policies are insane. And to think this guy was a neurosurgeon. America - who needs foreign bogeyman enemies when you have these crazy politicians at home ?

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Does Queen Elizabeth cradle you in her arms? shooo cute.

Is that all you got in terms of an answer? This is one of your own leading politicians stereotyping all Muslims as a homogenous entity, regardless of whether they are liberal, fundamentalist, marxist or atheist. Now maybe like Mamoon and and Slog you will resort to counting dollar bills like a New York cabbie to excuse this slight, but that's okay, everything is relative.

 

[Slog]

Is that all you got in terms of an answer? This is one of your own leading politicians stereotyping all Muslims as a homogenous entity, regardless of whether they are liberal, fundamentalist, marxist or atheist. Now maybe like Mamoon and and Slog you will resort to counting dollar bills like a New York cabbie to excuse this slight, but that's okay, everything is relative.

Counting dollar bills but if it's close to a $100k on average then that must be some cabbie. You should sign up too I guess because it will singlehandedly maybe bring up average household income income of BritPakis. Education attainment among the community can be looked at too but one step at a time.

And LOL at leading politician. He is a black Republican. Tells you all

 

[Thivagar]

India has had Muslim presidents in the past.4 actually.

I meant Prime Minister

 

[filthyfulltoss]

Is that all you got in terms of an answer? This is one of your own leading politicians stereotyping all Muslims as a homogenous entity, regardless of whether they are liberal, fundamentalist, marxist or atheist. Now maybe like Mamoon and and Slog you will resort to counting dollar bills like a New York cabbie to excuse this slight, but that's okay, everything is relative.

I'm not excusing anything. I defend everyone and anyone whenever they are wronged - you can check my post history. You decided to take this moment of bigotry and be a bigot yourself by taking a shot at Pakistani liberals and atheists for no reason whatsoever.

What do you want me to answer to that abhorrent stupidity?

 

[filthyfulltoss]

Counting dollar bills but if it's close to a $100k on average then that must be some cabbie. You should sign up too I guess because it will singlehandedly maybe bring up average household income income of BritPakis. Education attainment among the community can be looked at too but one step at a time.

And LOL at leading politician. He is a black Republican. Tells you all

Leave it. The man has never made a post that makes sense.

 

[Markhor]

For right-wing conservatives:

Christian sharia = good
Muslim sharia = bad

These are the same people who want to impose THEIR morality on other people, even willing to defy their own Supreme Court and law to do so as in the case of Kim Davis, spewing their hatred towards other groups in society - yet they accuse Muslims of doing the same !

Remind me who killed Dr Tiller again ? Oh that's right, an anti-abortionist Christian nutjob. Wait shouldn't that be "terrorist" - or is that reserved for the "Moslems" ? These same Christian zealots who've even supported the bombings of abortion clinics are preaching about "Christian values".

Goddamn HYPOCRITES. The day the Republican Party dies will be a day of rejoice around the world.

 

[chacha kashmiri]

Only great heritage left was of Mughals?Where did you read this history?Go read history of India,the civilization starts from Indus Valley Civilization almost 5000 years back.Mughal rule is only a small part of it.

Man youhave to go back as far as Muslim rule of Spain or people like Al Khoury who was PM for 1 year.

The only example that is worth is of Dawood Rajiha.

You are beginning to remind me of a poster whose sole purpose on here was to remind everyone that qadiyannis could never become pm in Pakistan

Once you leave the rss You'll find out how many Sikhs have been gunned down in the U.s too for looking like muslims

 

[Cracket]

Which Islamic nation goes around claiming its a paragon of virtue, an oasis of freedom and liberty like the United States ?

Thing about the Saudis and the Qataris is that at least they don't pretend they're something other than what they are - barbaric religious authoritarians. Its another example of US politician's latent hypocrisy.

You can credit the Saudis with being honest about their barbarity, even I do. Trump is becoming a phenomenon here in States for having this exact quality about being honest even with debauched virtues. But I don't know if you're trying to imply if that is a better quality to have, than being hypocritical but still respecting a constitution with the most forward thinking, progressive national laws on the planet?

At the end of the day, U.S. is still a country of majority Christians, and they've created a country where a Muslim can legally run for President. Even the orthodox Christians will respect that right, including Carson. They won't vote for him, but they won't deny any Muslim a platform to run for the highest post in the office. Also, majority of Americans do not agree with Carson on that comment.

 

[Markhor]

You can credit the Saudis with being honest about their barbarity, even I do. Trump is becoming a phenomenon here in States for having this exact quality about being honest even with debauched virtues. But I don't know if you're trying to imply if that is a better quality to have, than being hypocritical but still respecting a constitution with the most forward thinking, progressive national laws on the planet?

At the end of the day, U.S. is still a country of majority Christians, and they've created a country where a Muslim can legally run for President. Even the orthodox Christians will respect that right, including Carson. They won't vote for him, but they won't deny any Muslim a platform to run for the highest post in the office. Also, majority of Americans do not agree with Carson on that comment.

I'd always prefer the US system of course, but my argument is if you're going to claim American exceptionalism, that the US is the most progressive and free society in the world which what the Republican right-wing never hesitate to boast about - then as an observer I will hold them to their word on that. If that's the standards you're setting then keep to it, and when there is hypocrisy on show like with Ben Carson who wants to deny Muslims their constitutional rights to stand for the highest office in the land - then absolutely they should be called out on it.

What I will say about the bolded part is this. For the last seven years, there has been a persistently vitriolic campaign against Barack Obama, worse than I've ever seen in my lifetime against ANY politician anywhere. The countless claims that Obama was not a US-born citizen and he's a Muslim as if the latter is something to hold against him shows there's anything but respect. Now imagine the reaction if a Muslim actually WAS the President bearing that in mind.

54% of Republicans still believe Obama's a Muslim and only 14% think he's a Christian. So sure, constitutionally and legally a Muslim can be President. But politically its hard to imagine, the murmurings, the whispering would be unbearable. Listen to the media discourse even amongst so-called 'liberals' like Bill Maher and Sam Harris who believe whilst all religions are evil - Islam is the worst. Do you think they'd accept a Muslim President ?

Take a look at this poll below - there are a large number of Americans who simply don't believe a Muslim could be a President without their religious beliefs influencing their decision making. Yet I don't hear the same outrage about the Christian fundamentalism of George Bush who said he invaded Iraq on God's instruction and that "Gog and Magog were in the Middle East" - I guess its OK for Christian fundamentalists to enforce their morality on the population but if even a moderate Muslim came to office - oh no, he couldn't function in a government post, he must be some fanatical religionist.

The poll found a growing number of Americans doubt that Muslim-Americans or Arab-Americans would be able to perform in a government post without their ethnicity or religion affecting their work. Thirty-six percent of respondents felt that Arab-Americans would be influenced by their ethnicity, and 42 percent said Muslim-Americans would be influenced by religion.

Results differed by political party, with the majority of Republicans holding negative views of both Arab-Americans and Muslims. Democrats gave Arab-Americans a 30 percent unfavorable rating and Muslim-Americans a 33 percent unfavorable rating, while Republicans gave Arab-Americans a 54 percent unfavorable rating and Muslim-Americans a 63 percent unfavorable rating.

Similarly, Republicans were more likely to think that Arab-Americans and Muslim-Americans unable to hold a role in government without being influenced by ethnicity or religion. Fifty-seven percent of Republicans said they believed Muslim-Americans would be influenced by their religion, while half said the same for Arab-Americans. Almost half of Democrats said they were confident Muslim-Americans and Arab-Americans could do their jobs without influence.

 

[Swanny]

Lol Americans would have said the same thing about having a black president up until early 2000s. Trends change.

 

[Bhaijaan]

How many hindu, sikh and christian presidents and prime ministers have we seen in Pakistan?

Bit ironic from Pakistanis to discuss and bash Americans for things they're worse at.

 

[Slog]

How many hindu, sikh and christian presidents and prime ministers have we seen in Pakistan?

Bit ironic from Pakistanis to discuss and bash Americans for things they're worse at.

You do find it hard to grasp simple arguments it seems. Pakistan calls itself an Islamic republic and is very upfront about the requirement of being a Muslim in order to become the PM.

The US claims to be the land of opportunity where anyone born there can dream of leading the country and will have no restrictions placed on him which will stop him or her from doing so. So on the US part it is hypocritical because it is against virtues that the country claims to embody.

As for your second point about the perceived irony. Do you ascribe to the belief that one cannot comment or critique anyone else if their own society is guilty of the same issue? You do know that as a person from a subcontinent country that rules you out too from criticising any country for most issues. Weak logic there.

 

[Slog]

As for topic. I've said it before and will repeat. The guy is a joke and there is no need to pounce on his or even trumps statement because neither of them are getting anywhere

 

[Bhaijaan]

You do find it hard to grasp simple arguments it seems. Pakistan calls itself an Islamic republic and is very upfront about the requirement of being a Muslim in order to become the PM.

The US claims to be the land of opportunity where anyone born there can dream of leading the country and will have no restrictions placed on him which will stop him or her from doing so. So on the US part it is hypocritical because it is against virtues that the country claims to embody.

As for your second point about the perceived irony. Do you ascribe to the belief that one cannot comment or critique anyone else if their own society is guilty of the same issue? You do know that as a person from a subcontinent country that rules you out too from criticising any country for most issues. Weak logic there.

USA is a great nation. You're not fit to discuss them. Pakistan probably comes last among nations like Saudi as far as giving equality to all citizens.

 

[Slog]

USA is a great nation. You're not fit to discuss them. Pakistan probably comes last among nations like Saudi as far as giving equality to all citizens.

Yea I guess you think we are in the same league as your country which raids Golden Temple, destroys historical mosques and kills minorities.

 

[rashidumair007]

So?Islamic countries are a above and beyond the basic requirement of providing equal rights to people of every religion but then people of these countries can migrate to other nations and enjoy and demand the same rights they dont provide others in their own country.That sir is hypocrisy and about time muslims realise it.Because this world is based on give and take.

As per your logic this has nothing to do with India so you can't tell any Muslim living in US or any Muslim country what to say or do

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[rashidumair007]

For right-wing conservatives:

Christian sharia = good
Muslim sharia = bad

These are the same people who want to impose THEIR morality on other people, even willing to defy their own Supreme Court and law to do so as in the case of Kim Davis, spewing their hatred towards other groups in society - yet they accuse Muslims of doing the same !

Remind me who killed Dr Tiller again ? Oh that's right, an anti-abortionist Christian nutjob. Wait shouldn't that be "terrorist" - or is that reserved for the "Moslems" ? These same Christian zealots who've even supported the bombings of abortion clinics are preaching about "Christian values".

Goddamn HYPOCRITES. The day the Republican Party dies will be a day of rejoice around the world.

No the day the control & influence of Jewish lobby & other powerful lobbies in U.S. politics ends will be a day of rejoicing around the world

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[cricketjoshila]

You do find it hard to grasp simple arguments it seems. Pakistan calls itself an Islamic republic and is very upfront about the requirement of being a Muslim in order to become the PM.

The US claims to be the land of opportunity where anyone born there can dream of leading the country and will have no restrictions placed on him which will stop him or her from doing so. So on the US part it is hypocritical because it is against virtues that the country claims to embody.

As for your second point about the perceived irony. Do you ascribe to the belief that one cannot comment or critique anyone else if their own society is guilty of the same issue? You do know that as a person from a subcontinent country that rules you out too from criticising any country for most issues. Weak logic there.

So basically Pakistan can absolve itself of any responsibilities towards any minorities but point fingers at others about what right they shouldnor shouldnot give others?Hypocrisy at its worst.This is a world of give and take and if muslims dont give minorities their rights in their countries same minorities when in position of majority in another country wont let any muslim take a position of power.Thats the unfortunate truth.

The US laws doesnt stop anyone from becoming the President even if he or she is a muslim,voters can and anyone can try to influence the voters to vote for and againist.

 

[cricketjoshila]

As per your logic this has nothing to do with India so you can't tell any Muslim living in US or any Muslim country what to say or do

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I see hardly any US citizens here but random people commenting on what US is doing.So am i.

 

[90MPH]

USA is a great nation. You're not fit to discuss them. Pakistan probably comes last among nations like Saudi as far as giving equality to all citizens.

We are discussing what a republican candidate has said - not accusing the whole USA. Your seriously are a clown and idiotic at times.

As for given equal rights sure Pakistan has a long way to go but at least we criticise ourselves unlike you blind bharatis who can only finger point one way. That too when your own country has tons of problems. And do i need to remind you some of your own shameful history when it comes to certain citizens" ?

Discuss but don't come here and lecture.

 

[rashidumair007]

I see hardly any US citizens here but random people commenting on what US is doing.So am i.

No your discussing muslims & pakistan here & we`re not discussing India here because u claim that I only debate when India is involved, so again as per your logic you have no right to criticize Pakistan`s or Muslim countries` internal matter but other people can because they don't claim that

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[cricketjoshila]

No your discussing muslims & pakistan here & we`re not discussing India here because u claim that I only debate when India is involved, so again as per your logic you have no right to criticize Pakistan`s or Muslim countries` internal matter but other people can because they don't claim that

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India has many muslims as many as Pakistan.We are talking laws in Islamic nations,nothing particular of Pakistan.

 

[rashidumair007]

India has many muslims as many as Pakistan.We are talking laws in Islamic nations,nothing particular of Pakistan.

It doesn't matter how many muslims there are in India, as long as they are not in a majority, India will not be a Islamic nation & as per your claim that I mentioned before, you shouldn't be criticizing laws of Pakistan or Muslim countries b/c that is their internal matter unless India is involved in the discussion.

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[cricketjoshila]

It doesn't matter how many muslims there are in India, as long as they are not in a majority, India will not be a Islamic nation & as per your claim that I mentioned before, you shouldn't be criticizing laws of Pakistan or Muslim countries b/c that is their internal matter unless India is involved in the discussion.

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I am talking generically.Muslims demanding equal rights in secular nations while denying the same to minorities in Islamic countries.

Is because of this,even muslims from secular countries like India have to suffer.So ofcourse i can comment.

 

[Slog]

So basically Pakistan can absolve itself of any responsibilities towards any minorities but point fingers at others about what right they shouldnor shouldnot give others?Hypocrisy at its worst.This is a world of give and take and if muslims dont give minorities their rights in their countries same minorities when in position of majority in another country wont let any muslim take a position of power.Thats the unfortunate truth.

The US laws doesnt stop anyone from becoming the President even if he or she is a muslim,voters can and anyone can try to influence the voters to vote for and againist.

You have a very poor argument here.

Where did I say that Pakistan can absolve itself. If you have followed my posts on minority topics I time and again point out the hypocrisy of Pakistanis and Muslims in this regard too and call it shameful. Many other too.

And what do you mean Pakistan even? Do you think Pakistan is a country of 180mm individuals all carbon copies of each other and with the same train of thoughts and ideals and principles? Same with Muslims. Not all are same. There are several different races and countries who share little apart from religion here. Different way of life and thinking. You dont make lot of sense in this aspect when you say Pakistan says this or points fingers at others.

I think it will be hypocritical when Pakistan Government says something like this because it has a less than stellar track record But individual Pakistanis can point out hypocrisies especially of country which claims to not be guilty of such issues.

 

[rashidumair007]

I am talking generically.Muslims demanding equal rights in secular nations while denying the same to minorities in Islamic countries.

Is because of this,even muslims from secular countries like India have to suffer.So ofcourse i can comment.

Then from now on you shouldn`t say that we can`t critisize India b/c it's India's internal matter because as per your logic, when Muslims in India suffer at the hands of hindus, it`s because of this hindus in Pakistan are persecuted, so of course we Pakistanis can comment on India

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[cricketjoshila]

You have a very poor argument here.

Where did I say that Pakistan can absolve itself. If you have followed my posts on minority topics I time and again point out the hypocrisy of Pakistanis and Muslims in this regard too and call it shameful. Many other too.

And what do you mean Pakistan even? Do you think Pakistan is a country of 180mm individuals all carbon copies of each other and with the same train of thoughts and ideals and principles? Same with Muslims. Not all are same. There are several different races and countries who share little apart from religion here. Different way of life and thinking. You dont make lot of sense in this aspect when you say Pakistan says this or points fingers at others.

I think it will be hypocritical when Pakistan Government says something like this because it has a less than stellar track record But individual Pakistanis can point out hypocrisies especially of country which claims to not be guilty of such issues.

By Pakistan,i mean Pakistan state.And leave Pakistan,majority of Muslim majority nations have these kind of rules.And if this notion isnt supported by majority of Muslims i wonder how these rules have existed for such a long time.

There are Pakistanis on this board who will support and condemn somethings just based on religion,but when others do it they will complain.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Then from now on you shouldn`t say that we can`t critisize India b/c it's India's internal matter because as per your logic, when Muslims in India suffer at the hands of hindus, it`s because of this hindus in Pakistan are persecuted, so of course we Pakistanis can comment on India

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Muslims of India are suffering despite being from a secular state,where they live side by side of other religions happily,because muslims of Islamic nations deny minorities their rights and in return people of other secular nations paint all muslims as such.

So if Indian citizens,in this case Muslims are suffering,so as an Indian i can comment.

secondly if PPers of other nations can comment on how US should behave in matters of its own election then others will also point out to them.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Then from now on you shouldn`t say that we can`t critisize India b/c it's India's internal matter because as per your logic, when Muslims in India suffer at the hands of hindus, it`s because of this hindus in Pakistan are persecuted, so of course we Pakistanis can comment on India

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Where did i say Muslims in India are suffering because of What Pakistanis do to Hindus in Pakistan?They are Pakistanis and what Pakistan do to them is Pakistan's problem.Indian Muslims are INDIANS and have nothing to do with Pakistan.

Muslims of India are suffering in other countries despite being from a secular state,where they live side by side of other religions happily,because muslims of Islamic nations deny minorities their rights and in return people of other secular nations paint all muslims as such.

So if Indian citizens,in this case Muslims are suffering,so as an Indian i can comment.

secondly if PPers of other nations can comment on how US should behave in matters of its own election then others will also point out to them.

Also Indian internal matters remain India's internal matter,nothing you say changes it.

 

[90MPH]

I am talking generically.Muslims demanding equal rights in secular nations while denying the same to minorities in Islamic countries.

Is because of this,even muslims from secular countries like India have to suffer.So ofcourse i can comment.

Wonderful lecturing of your citerzens.

Secular this, secular that. Practice what you preach like voting in secular governments whether nationally or even locally like Gujarat or Mumbai then maybe you could start pointing fingers at Muslims about secularism.

 

[90MPH]

Muslims of India are suffering despite being from a secular state,where they live side by side of other religions happily,because muslims of Islamic nations deny minorities their rights and in return people of other secular nations paint all muslims as such.

So if Indian citizens,in this case Muslims are suffering,so as an Indian i can comment.

secondly if PPers of other nations can comment on how US should behave in matters of its own election then others will also point out to them.

Nearly All you Indians in this thread are twisting what many posters have said.
I will say it one more time so you will understand.

The republican U.S. candidate Ben Carlson has been criticised for his comments, not just on this message board but everywhere including his home country. Even other republican nominees have criticised him for his comments.

And guess what he has backtracked since because he probably realised they were idiotic. If you want to open a thread about Islamic countries and their rules and consitutions then do and we can discuss it there.

 

[cricketjoshila]

[/B]

Wonderful lecturing of your citerzens.

Secular this, secular that. Practice what you preach like voting in secular governments whether nationally or even locally like Gujarat or Mumbai then maybe you could start pointing fingers at Muslims about secularism.

Who decides what is secular?You?

The laws are secular,the constitution is secular.People are free to vote anyone.Just like in US the laws allow Muslims to stand for election as President,the voters dont have to vote him in.That doesnt make the country less secular.

 

[rashidumair007]

Muslims of India are suffering despite being from a secular state,where they live side by side of other religions happily,because muslims of Islamic nations deny minorities their rights and in return people of other secular nations paint all muslims as such.

So if Indian citizens,in this case Muslims are suffering,so as an Indian i can comment.

secondly if PPers of other nations can comment on how US should behave in matters of its own election then others will also point out to them.

That's a paradox I think they can't be living happily side by side w/other religions if they are suffering at the same time & as far as other Muslim countries are concerned, they give them rights according to their rules if they have sharia or if they are secular & if the people of other secular nations generalize & stereotype all muslims, then it's their fault & if Indian muslims are suffering, then who`s fault is this? & other nation ppers can comment on U.S. & others can point out to them but as per your claim that you only discuss when India is involved, you can't

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[cricketjoshila]

That's a paradox I think they can't be living happily side by side w/other religions if they are suffering at the same time & as far as other Muslim countries are concerned, they give them rights according to their rules if they have sharia or if they are secular & if the people of other secular nations generalize & stereotype all muslims, then it's their fault & if Indian muslims are suffering, then who`s fault is this? & other nation ppers can comment on U.S. & others can point out to them but as per your claim that you only discuss when India is involved, you can't

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I suggest you read the whole post and understand.

Then from now on you shouldn`t say that we can`t critisize India b/c it's India's internal matter because as per your logic, when Muslims in India suffer at the hands of hindus, it`s because of this hindus in Pakistan are persecuted, so of course we Pakistanis can comment on India

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Where did i say Muslims in India are suffering because of What Pakistanis do to Hindus in Pakistan?They are Pakistanis and what Pakistan do to them is Pakistan's problem.Indian Muslims are INDIANS and have nothing to do with Pakistan.

Muslims of India are suffering in other countries despite being from a secular state,where they live side by side of other religions happily,because muslims of Islamic nations deny minorities their rights and in return people of other secular nations paint all muslims as such.

So if Indian citizens,in this case Muslims are suffering,so as an Indian i can comment.

secondly if PPers of other nations can comment on how US should behave in matters of its own election then others will also point out to them.

Also Indian internal matters remain India's internal matter,nothing you say changes it.

Did you understand?When Muslims in other countries get painted as like in this case"not fit to be President,because their faith is incompatible"it also paints the Indian muslims as same.But the Indian Muslims unlikemost others come from a secular nation where they live and practice their faith and also co habit with people of other faiths happily.Indian muslims have discharged the duties of some of the highest offices of India without any prejudice.Yet because of the acts or laws of muslims from other countries they get painted as ""not fit to be President,because their faith is incompatible".

 

[cricketjoshila]

That's a paradox I think they can't be living happily side by side w/other religions if they are suffering at the same time & as far as other Muslim countries are concerned, they give them rights according to their rules if they have sharia or if they are secular & if the people of other secular nations generalize & stereotype all muslims, then it's their fault & if Indian muslims are suffering, then who`s fault is this? & other nation ppers can comment on U.S. & others can point out to them but as per your claim that you only discuss when India is involved, you can't

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The OP paints all Muslims as such.Including Indian muslims who are my fellow Indians hence India is involved and hence i am commenting.

 

[90MPH]

Who decides what is secular?You?

The laws are secular,the constitution is secular.People are free to vote anyone.Just like in US the laws allow Muslims to stand for election as President,the voters dont have to vote him in.That doesnt make the country less secular.

Doesn't matter if laws are secular or written secular in a book but instead far right extremist groups are being voted nationally and locally in India - like the cities I have named.

It just seems actually hypocoritical of you to point fingers at Muslims about secularism In
India or anywhere else for that matter as when the voting stats so does right wing Hinduta bigotry.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Doesn't matter if laws are secular or written secular in a book but instead far right extremist groups are being voted nationally and locally in India - like the cities I have named.

It just seems actually hypocoritical of you to point fingers at Muslims about secularism In
India or anywhere else for that matter as when the voting stats so does right wing Hinduta bigotry.

It does matter.The laws and constitution are sacrosanct.Govt. come and go.No matter who is in power he has to follow the laws and the constitution.No one can deny the minorities their rights no matter he be Hindu or Sikh or something else.

Just like in Islamic countries no matter who is in power,he has to follow the laws which treat minorities as second grade citizens.

 

[rashidumair007]

Where did i say Muslims in India are suffering because of What Pakistanis do to Hindus in Pakistan?They are Pakistanis and what Pakistan do to them is Pakistan's problem.Indian Muslims are INDIANS and have nothing to do with Pakistan.

Muslims of India are suffering in other countries despite being from a secular state,where they live side by side of other religions happily,because muslims of Islamic nations deny minorities their rights and in return people of other secular nations paint all muslims as such.

So if Indian citizens,in this case Muslims are suffering,so as an Indian i can comment.

secondly if PPers of other nations can comment on how US should behave in matters of its own election then others will also point out to them.

Also Indian internal matters remain India's internal matter,nothing you say changes it.

I am talking generically.Muslims demanding equal rights in secular nations while denying the same to minorities in Islamic countries.
Is because of this,even muslims from secular countries like India have to suffer.So ofcourse i can comment.

your last paragraph that starts from is because b/c I can't seem to bold your quote. Then you shouldn't criticize laws of Pakistan & other Muslim b/c it is Pakistan`s problem & it doesn't concern you even if we are discussing U.S. & not only Indian muslims but any Indian who says that we can`t critisize India & it's laws b/c it's India's internal matter shouldn`t critisize Pakistan & it's laws.
I completely agree with you & where have I said that India's internal matter are not India's internal matter & anything I say will change that?

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[cricketjoshila]

your last paragraph that starts from is because b/c I can't seem to bold your quote. Then you shouldn't criticize laws of Pakistan & other Muslim b/c it is Pakistan`s problem & it doesn't concern you even if we are discussing U.S. & not only Indian muslims but any Indian who says that we can`t critisize India & it's laws b/c it's India's internal matter shouldn`t critisize Pakistan & it's laws.
I completely agree with you & where have I said that India's internal matter are not India's internal matter & anything I say will change that?

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I am criticising laws of any muslim nation because of which Indian Muslims have to suffer.

 

[Lurker_Ind]

If a Muslim(Religious one) becomes President of US of A, will he allow strip clubs, night clubs and bars under his governance? Won't they contradict his beliefs?

 

[Bhaijaan]

India and USA are nations where anyone from any religion or background could dream of becoming the President, Prime Minister, Head of the army. While India and USA top that list of opportunity for all, Pakistan and Saudi Arabia come last in that list and funny enough Saudi looks down upon Pakistan while Pakistan followed their traditions to impose such ridiculous rules.

 

[Markhor]

Ridiculous hijacking of this thread, nobody here is condoning what Pakistan or Saudi Arabia do to minorities.

 

[90MPH]

India and USA are nations where anyone from any religion or background could dream of becoming the President, Prime Minister, Head of the army. While India and USA top that list of opportunity for all, Pakistan and Saudi Arabia come last in that list and funny enough Saudi looks down upon Pakistan while Pakistan followed their traditions to impose such ridiculous rules.

Yea true anyone can be a PM in India. That includes not just corrupt thugs but mass murderers as well.

What a joke, comparing India to USA.

 

[Vayuu]

Yea true anyone can be a PM in India. That includes not just corrupt thugs but mass murderers as well.

What a joke, comparing India to USA.

Coming from a person of a country where minorities are treated like garbage. .

 

[cricketjoshila]

Yea true anyone can be a PM in India. That includes not just corrupt thugs but mass murderers as well.

What a joke, comparing India to USA.

You dont decide who is a mass murderer who is not.Your opinion on that means zero to Indian public.Its the judgement of Indian courts that matter.

So you can keep whining.

 

[Bhaijaan]

Yea true anyone can be a PM in India.

..and thats all the difference between a country like India and yours.

It would be ages before Pakistan follows India and USA's footsteps as far as providing true opportunity to all citizens is concerned.

 

[Bhaijaan]

Leave alone posts like PM or President, how many hindus or sikhs have had the honour of captaining a Pakistan cricket team?

 

[90MPH]

You dont decide who is a mass murderer who is not.Your opinion on that means zero to Indian public.Its the judgement of Indian courts that matter.

So you can keep whining.

I can decide whatever I like. And can voice it whenever I like.

Modi is a mass murdering terrorist and thug. And this thug was voted in.

So your nonsensical lectures about secularism means nothing. It's all a pathetic charade from you and your saffron RSS brothers.

 

[90MPH]

Coming from a person of a country where minorities are treated like garbage. .

Smell the coffee at home before pointing fingers about minorities at other countries.

Laughable. Your PM has the blood of minorities and he was voted it.

Have some shame, your country has a disgusting history of violence towards minorties.

 

[Bhaijaan]

Modi is a mass murdering terrorist and thug. And this thug was voted in.
.

Doesn't the same apply to chacha jinnah as well? correct me if i am wrong though.

Although i'd maintain Modi is a greater leader than Jinnah ever was, as far as alleged failure in saving people from gettting killed how is Modi's record any different from Jinnah's during partition?

 

[Vayuu]

Smell the coffee at home before pointing fingers about minorities at other countries.

Laughable. Your PM has the blood of minorities and he was voted it.

Have some shame, your country has a disgusting history of violence towards minorties.

Like freelance cricketer said, look at the founder and then talk, do I need to u about direct action day and stuff, atleast we have a minority on a huge no. To talk about.

 

[Vayuu]

Doesn't the same apply to chacha jinnah as well? correct me if i am wrong though.

Although i'd maintain Modi is a greater leader than Jinnah ever was, as far as alleged failure in saving people from gettting killed how is Modi's record any different from Jinnah's during partition?

Bas kr bhai ab itni bhi baizzati Mat kr bechare ki aur main jinah ki baat nhi kr rha ,I am talking about the poster u are referring to.

 

[Bhaijaan]

Like freelance cricketer said, look at the founder and then talk, do I need to u about direct action day and stuff, atleast we have a minority on a huge no. To talk about.

Ohhhhh that hurts so much. )

 

[90MPH]

Like freelance cricketer said, look at the founder and then talk, do I need to u about direct action day and stuff, atleast we have a minority on a huge no. To talk about.

Oh how lovely, Indian trolls comforting each other on a Pakiatani forum.

Did Jinnah give the green light for gangs of mobs slaughtering children women, gang raping women like your lovely Hinduta gangs were doing in 2002 ?? You even slaughtered your own MP where the police didn't want to save him.
Look at your disgusting record on Kashmir. I gave 1 example yesterday where your army raped 23 women in 1 night when they raided a village. And that's from Amnesty international.
Oh I won't even mention the attacks on Christians and the Sikhs.

So you and troll lance get a life and lecture your own bharatis before coming here and looking down on us. And yes we do have minority and they are Pakistanis.

Begharait trolls, no shame.

 

[Vayuu]

Oh how lovely, Indian trolls comforting each other on a Pakiatani forum.

Did Jinnah give the green light for gangs of mobs slaughtering children women, gang raping women like your lovely Hinduta gangs were doing in 2002 ?? You even slaughtered your own MP where the police didn't want to save him.
Look at your disgusting record on Kashmir. I gave 1 example yesterday where your army raped 23 women in 1 night when they raided a village. And that's from Amnesty international.
Oh I won't even mention the attacks on Christians and the Sikhs.

So you and troll lance get a life and lecture your own bharatis before coming here and looking down on us. And yes we do have minority and they are Pakistanis.

Begharait trolls, no shame.

Do I need to tell you about the human rights violation in Balochistan , not to forget the how rape is dealt in courts in pakistan, also how ahmadiyas,'s ,christians, and sikh's are delt,gojra riots,christian colony riots, or do i need to tell you who is eligible for cleaning and stuff in pakistan,FC what to do, like rajkumar said in waqt ki jinke ghar shishe ke ho wo dusro ke ghar pathar nhi fainkete.

 

[Bhaijaan]

Do I need to tell you about the human rights violation in Balochistan , not to forget the how rape is dealt in courts in pakistan, also how ahmadiyas,'s ,christians, and sikh's are delt,gojra riots,christian colony riots, or do i need to tell you who is eligible for cleaning and stuff in pakistan,FC what to do, like rajkumar said in waqt ki jinke ghar shishe ke ho wo dusro ke ghar pathar nhi fainkete.

Once a person prayed to Allah and said hey allah if at all you're annoyed with us jo marzi krna bss meri qaum ki akal mat lena to which Allah replied jab hum na khush hote haen to sirf akal hi lete haen.

Thats the case with a lot of the people here who are beyond any reasoning.

 

[Vayuu]

Once a person prayed to Allah and said hey allah if at all you're annoyed with us jo marzi krna bss meri qaum ki akal mat lena to which Allah replied jab hum na khush hote haen to sirf akal hi lete haen.

Thats the case with a lot of the people here who are beyond any reasoning.

Yup, exactly.

 

[90MPH]

Do I need to tell you about the human rights violation in Balochistan , not to forget the how rape is dealt in courts in pakistan, also how ahmadiyas,'s ,christians, and sikh's are delt,gojra riots,christian colony riots, or do i need to tell you who is eligible for cleaning and stuff in pakistan,FC what to do, like rajkumar said in waqt ki jinke ghar shishe ke ho wo dusro ke ghar pathar nhi fainkete.

I understand Pakistan's problems much better than you sunshine. What do you know about Pakiatan ?? Just the one way propaganda fed by your Indian media machine that is full of bakvaas.

You know the real difference - I don't go to Indian forums to lecture you Bharatis about your problems. You Indian trolls do. Have some shame, especially considering Indias terrible record of mass killings against minorities.

Here's a better way to put it. Before sticking your head over your neighbours fence and lecturing them to clean It I suggest you look at your garden first. Keep it clean because there's stil a lot of dirt, even below the grass. You can hide it but the dirt is still there. Read and think hard before your next post.

 

[90MPH]

Once a person prayed to Allah and said hey allah if at all you're annoyed with us jo marzi krna bss meri qaum ki akal mat lena to which Allah replied jab hum na khush hote haen to sirf akal hi lete haen.

Thats the case with a lot of the people here who are beyond any reasoning.

Indian trolls comforting and reassuring each other. Feel like vomiting.

Is there not a Indian forum for you bharatis to hold such courtship ??

Is ICF still closed down ?? )

 

[Vayuu]

I understand Pakistan's problems much better than you sunshine. What do you know about Pakiatan ?? Just the one way propaganda fed by your Indian media machine that is full of bakvaas.

You know the real difference - I don't go to Indian forums to lecture you Bharatis about your problems. You Indian trolls do. Have some shame, especially considering Indias terrible record of mass killings against minorities.

Here's a better way to put it. Before sticking your head over your neighbours fence and lecturing them to clean It I suggest you look at your garden first. Keep it clean because there's stil a lot of dirt, even below the grass. You can hide it but the dirt is still there. Read and think hard before your next post.

And what do you know about India mr cool, stop watching India through zaid hamid or Mr masood or qureshi , and we all know how sane is pak media, don't talk what you can't implement yourself, and you have a whole swamp not a dirt to clean, shame is on you as the whole world know how you deal with human rights and terrorism , you say don't lecture indians on indian forum, coz jab wo yaha baizzati kr dete hai aapki to waha to poora mess ho jayega. And one more thing it's bhartiya not bharati.

 

[Bhaijaan]

90 mph has quite clearly lost his senses. When he gets embarrassed by some hard core replies, he goes into a shell and starts acting like a jerk. Why cannot you stay on topic Ninety? When is Pakistan naming a Hindu president, please reply to that and do go away crying. Answer this.