Narendra Modi Makes First Visit to Israel by Indian PM, Ignores Palestine

[English August]

Hyperbole yet again from yet another pro-Modi Indian. English August has been shown up for what he is in the Kashmir thread. I'd put him on an ignore list if it's possible.

Every intelligence agency and military provide an input into foreign policy. Do you not remember the Iraq war or do you not consider that foreign policy? That wasn't even a country who directly threatened the US-UK. With Pakistan-India it's a whole new ball game. No defender of Pakistani armed forces or Nawaz Sharif but NS is as incompetent as they come and Pakistan, a showcase of democracy gone wrong.

This is a public forum, it's your decision to respond or not. What has been shown up is your reluctance to engage in debate any time your ignorance and prejudiced views are challenged with cold hard facts. Some of us who grew up in mature democratic countries like India, the US, the UK understand the nuanced difference between what people say to rally their base vs. what people do when they actually hold public office. This is a natural dance of democracy, there is a role for the ruling party, there is a role for opposition, there is a role for media.

Modi has been holding public office for 15+ years now: 12 as CM of Gujarat and 3 as the PM. When I am judging him, I'm going to look at what he actually did during these 15 years as opposed to what he might have said in some random rally 17 years ago as a party worker when he did not hold any office. But hey, that's just me -- biased towards hard facts / actions vs. conjecture / speculation / speeches.

 

[ShadabFakhar]

This is a public forum, it's your decision to respond or not. What has been shown up is your reluctance to engage in debate any time your ignorance and prejudiced views are challenged with cold hard facts. Some of us who grew up in mature democratic countries like India, the US, the UK understand the nuanced difference between what people say to rally their base vs. what people do when they actually hold public office. This is a natural dance of democracy, there is a role for the ruling party, there is a role for opposition, there is a role for media.

Modi has been holding public office for 15+ years now: 12 as CM of Gujarat and 3 as the PM. When I am judging him, I'm going to look at what he actually did during these 15 years as opposed to what he might have said in some random rally 17 years ago as a party worker when he did not hold any office. But hey, that's just me -- biased towards hard facts / actions vs. conjecture / speculation / speeches.

Still waiting for you to bring up facts I "ignored" in Kashmir thread. You contradicted yourself a few too many times for me to continue on that. Remember how quick you were to jump at opportunities to say you'd won an argument with "Godwin's Law" when I was engaged in a discussion.

This post of yours is better and the dance of democracy point is encouraging. I believe that about politics too, but as has been seen in Trump's America and now Modi's India such 'dances' leave a lasting impact amongst the impoverished uneducated communities.

Please bring up the facts on Modi and let's discuss them.

 

[sshakir411]

Anyone hear Modi's speech upon arrival in Israel? I couldn't help but notice the face Bibi made when Modi said "Our communities have supported each other for centuries" (or something along those lines)....Bibi looked perplexed. Maybe Modi should give him a lesson in history..

I think I'd pick Modi over Bibi..

 

[Muhammad10]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The Bibi/Modi buddy comedy could probably sustain a film franchise <a href="https://t.co/enaEQN0UtJ">pic.twitter.com/enaEQN0UtJ</a></p>— (((Yair Rosenberg))) (@Yair_Rosenberg) <a href="https://twitter.com/Yair_Rosenberg/status/882980603662147584">July 6, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Specialisttailender]

That's because the Arabs aren't in the business of trying to impress Pakistan, but the opposite is true: British Pakistanis (mainly) raise a big hue and cry on the Israel - Palestine issue to show solitude and fit in with the Arabs. The only problem is the majority of Arabia couldn't give two hoots about this problem themselves.

When it comes to Yemen being bombed as we speak, or Muslims being made to feel unwelcome in parts of China, or the Rohingyas who still haven't found a home you won't find too many sympathizers for one reason or another, with the overall theme being that since either the Arabs are complicit in the operation, or since they aren't watching it isn't worth the effort of trying to showcase said (British) Pakistani solitude.

Arabs already have the superiority complex while Pakistanis still have the desi mentality of trying to please everyone. Pakistanis will prey beside Somalians at the mosque, the arabs will never do that. They are nice until you disagree with them at anything, i went to a mobile repair shop to fix my phone, he quoted a higher price, I asked to lower the price a bit and his Arab genetics came out of him.

Very well said, no one cares about Somalians or Yemen. I don't believe Muslim unity(ummah ?) exists.

 

[Specialisttailender]

If I was an Indian constantly moaning about Islam and Arabs I doubt I would step foot in an Arab country never mind accept their money and associated benefits to work in an Islamic Arab country. But then some don't seem to have a problem with that. Why don't you tell us all about it?

My state alone sends few million workers to the gulf countries, at least 5% of these numbers (large in the context) are Muslims. When they come back they tell us how disrespected they are regardless of their religion. They are even treated worse than Pakistanis, South Indian, Sri lankan and Bengali workers are given the most dangerous and demoralizing tasks within the borderline slave labour industry. They know too well to never defend these Arabs at any cost.

 

[kaayal]

Modi's bear hug to Baby Moshe is cute.

 

[3rdWheel]

Good for india, they have made a very strong ally. Worrying time for Pakistan I guess

 

[cricketjoshila]

I can tell you some of his more controversial quotes which will pave the way for future decisions:

About Mother Teresa: She was part of the conspiracy to Christianize India. Hindus were converted in the name of doing service and then converted

On Yoga: Lord Shankar was the biggest Yogi who started Yoga. Mahadev lives in every particle of this country. So those who want to avoid Yoga and Lord Shankar, can leave Hindustan.


About Shah Rukh Khan: Shah Rukh Khan should remember that if people would boycott his films, he would also have to wander in the streets like a normal Muslim… These people are speaking in the language of terrorists. I think there is no difference between the language of Shah Rukh Khan and Hafiz Saeed.

I asked you which Hindutva decision he has taken?

 

[MenInG]

This cannot be breaking news!

 

[ShadabFakhar]

This cannot be breaking news!

It's only breaking India's bank balance.

 

[Gabbar Singh]

It's only breaking India's bank balance.

The trade balance between India and Israel stands in India's favour to the tune of over a billion dollars.

 

[ShadabFakhar]

The trade balance between India and Israel stands in India's favour to the tune of over a billion dollars.

Source?

 

[ShadabFakhar]

[MENTION=7898]Gabbar Singh[/MENTION],please include figures of today's transaction?

 

[Pakpak]

The trade balance between India and Israel stands in India's favour to the tune of over a billion dollars.

[MENTION=7898]Gabbar Singh[/MENTION],please include figures of today's transaction?

http://itrade.gov.il/india/israel-india/

 

[ShadabFakhar]

http://itrade.gov.il/india/israel-india/

I mentioned that to him because it'd be irrelevant in context of today's spending spree, unless he's an economist and these figures tie in with his forecast.

 

[Pakpak]

I mentioned that to him because it'd be irrelevant in context of today's spending spree, unless he's an economist and these figures tie in with his forecast.

Oh, I posted the link so you could see any stats from there. I haven't read the link myself

 

[ShadabFakhar]

Oh, I posted the link so you could see any stats from there. I haven't read the link myself

Link was out of date lol. I was having a play on words with MIG anyways, it's an investment hoping Israel will increase it's imports from India, not just in diamonds, rubber etc, but hi-tec security. It just means that the US-tech will start going to Pakistan because they'll have to flog theirs as a competitor to Israel.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Your point on beef fan fell flat. It was a straight yes/no question, now you're trying to make it murky. Did Modi introduce beef ban in India for the first time after assuming power? Answer is no. Deal with it.

lol. It's obvious you have little knowledge and are clinging to anything you can. It's not a yes or no answer as I was clearly pointing to the laws and esclation of violence under Modi due to the beef bans.

Akbar outlawed beef slaughter too, it has been banned in history many hundreds of years ago. Only desperation would want someone to cling onto a point of Modi not being the first one when its obvious what I was pointing to.

You started talking about HRW/AI. Now it's international media. Fine. My point still remains: the world's largest democracy doesn't need certificate of good behavior from foreign-funded NGOs, media [ or any other new category you may choose to introduce now. ] It can look after its citizens.

The so called largest democary isnt even giving the basic right of democracy which is freedom.

You actually believe THERE IS NO OPPRESSION in Kashmir? Yet the rest of the planet feels otherwise. I know Indians enjoy defending India but your'e the first ever to deny any oppression of Kashmiri's by the Indian forces.

I never said all Kashmiris are terrorists. But if you live in terrorism-infested area sometimes you have to put up with inconveniences like internet / phone not working, curfew being imposed etc. What else do you expect security personnel to do? Give free reign to terrorists? Is that your solution?

I forget to address the ranting point, so let's do it now. What's the big deal about ranting? Modi says 100 things every day. Of those 100 things if there is a passing reference to Pakistan (which happens to be ongoing permanent irritant for India BTW), how does that become constant ranting?

Back to my question: do you have any sense of proportion? Do you have idea what goes on in India?[/QUOTE]

You said Modi never rants about Pakistan, I just showed he does and did recently. So accept your ignorance.

It seem I know more than you

 

[KingKhanWC]

Nice attempt to twist, didn't work though.

Regardless of sound bytes, Israel is selling equipment to India because India is paying for it. This is not a charitable donation. If Pakistan was paying for weapons, you can bet Israel would sell. Happens all the time. America, UK, France, Russia sell to many Muslim nations, including Pakistan. Israel is different to you because of your personal Islamic angle. Btw: ever spoken to anyone from Israel? You'll be surprised and what kind of people they are. Almost all of them have served in the military, so the general opinion is not different from the state's.

Drone strikes and securing Israel, that whole sentence was confused mumbo jumbo.

Try again. Or better yet, don't.

I suggest you read further down the thread, someone has posted a news report today. Israel and India are working together against Pakistan. But you can carry on with your head in the sand because you want Pakistan to recognise Israel. It seems you want Pakistan to give recognition to an open enemy of Muslims. Great patriotism my friend.

 

[Varun]

I suggest you read further down the thread, someone has posted a news report today. Israel and India are working together against Pakistan. But you can carry on with your head in the sand because you want Pakistan to recognise Israel. It seems you want Pakistan to give recognition to an open enemy of Muslims. Great patriotism my friend.

They won't be an enemy anymore if you recognize them and start a friendship with them. The Israelis are an enterprising people who are technologically and intellectually uber-advanced and Pakistan can benefit from that. It won't take the Pakistani establishment more than 6 months to then call the Palestinians and Arabs for what they are: useless.

It will also throw a gigantic curveball Saudi Arabia's way which will be hilarious to watch.

 

[Asim_khan]

They won't be an enemy anymore if you recognize them and start a friendship with them. The Israelis are an enterprising people who are technologically and intellectually uber-advanced and Pakistan can benefit from that. It won't take the Pakistani establishment more than 6 months to then call the Palestinians and Arabs for what they are: useless.

It will also throw a gigantic curveball Saudi Arabia's way which will be hilarious to watch.

Still doesn't change the fact they practice apartheid. I'm sure, for all Pakistan's faults, they can still be proud of the fact that they didn't sell out the Palestinian people who suffer under the Israeli occupation.

 

[Varun]

Still doesn't change the fact they practice apartheid. I'm sure, for all Pakistan's faults, they can still be proud of the fact that they didn't sell out the Palestinian people who suffer under the Israeli occupation.

But they can't be proud of the fact that for all the 'help' (mainly just noise to impress the Arabs, but still) given to the Palestinian people, the Arabs have done diddly-squat to help out Pakistan in its time of need: they will still sell Pakistan oil or even if they stop thinking about Palestine - that fictional country that doesn't exist - this instant.

If anything, ask them to turn off the setting on madrassa funding in Pakistan. That in itself will go a long way to solve most of Pakistan's current ills.

 

[Asim_khan]

But they can't be proud of the fact that for all the 'help' (mainly just noise to impress the Arabs, but still) given to the Palestinian people, the Arabs have done diddly-squat to help out Pakistan in its time of need: they will still sell Pakistan oil or even if they stop thinking about Palestine - that fictional country that doesn't exist - this instant.

If anything, ask them to turn off the setting on madrassa funding in Pakistan. That in itself will go a long way to solve most of Pakistan's current ills.

For all Pakistan's faults, they are standing up against Apartheid by siding with the Palestinians over the Israeli's, so they should be commended for that.

And as for Palestine being a fictional country that doesn't exist? Golda Meir claimed that, plenty of right wing Israeli's still do, but not many other people.

 

[enkidu_]

They won't be an enemy anymore if you recognize them and start a friendship with them. The Israelis are an enterprising people who are technologically and intellectually uber-advanced and Pakistan can benefit from that. It won't take the Pakistani establishment more than 6 months to then call the Palestinians and Arabs for what they are: useless.

It will also throw a gigantic curveball Saudi Arabia's way which will be hilarious to watch.

Israelis don't want "friendship" with immediate neighbours and Semitic cousins, you're too idealistic.

 

[Varun]

For all Pakistan's faults, they are standing up against Apartheid by siding with the Palestinians over the Israeli's, so they should be commended for that.

Elaborate on 'They should be commended...'? What rewards has Pakistan gained from this stand? Anything?

And as for Palestine being a fictional country that doesn't exist? Golda Meir claimed that, plenty of right wing Israeli's still do, but not many other people.

Of course it doesn't exist. If they indeed were around they would have issue passports, have global embassies, be represented in full at the United Nations, have citizens, expats, a military, so on and so forth.

Face it: the Palestinian movement is an international orphan.

 

[Varun]

Israelis don't want "friendship" with immediate neighbours and Semitic cousins, you're too idealistic.

Israel doesn't mind any of the neighbouring countries as long as the respect is mutual. Egypt and Jordan saw the light and now have full diplomatic relations with Israel to their benefit. The rest of the rag tag Arabs have a one-track mind and claim that the country should be wiped off the face of this earth and hence Israel will be wary and cautious. If that means not wanting friendship with such states, so be it.

 

[Asim_khan]

Elaborate on 'They should be commended...'? What rewards has Pakistan gained from this stand? Anything?



Of course it doesn't exist. If they indeed were around they would have issue passports, have global embassies, be represented in full at the United Nations, have citizens, expats, a military, so on and so forth.

Face it: the Palestinian movement is an international orphan.

What rewards did third world African/Caribbean states recieve when they stood up to South African Apartheid? There's more to life than monetary rewards. The ends does not justify the means.

And I don't recall there being a UN in the 1920's, or whether a bunch of bedouin tribesmen would see the need to open global embassies. But as for Expats, if you've been following South America's equivalent of the Europa League, you might have noticed Flamengo, the great Brazilian side who've had the likes of Romario, Edmundo and more recently Ronaldinho play for them, were last night playing a team called Club Deportivo Palestino. Guess who they're descendants of?

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

But they can't be proud of the fact that for all the 'help' (mainly just noise to impress the Arabs, but still) given to the Palestinian people, the Arabs have done diddly-squat to help out Pakistan in its time of need: they will still sell Pakistan oil or even if they stop thinking about Palestine - that fictional country that doesn't exist - this instant.

If anything, ask them to turn off the setting on madrassa funding in Pakistan. That in itself will go a long way to solve most of Pakistan's current ills.

You and your Indian friends keep telling us how recognising Israel would benefit Pakistan, but I still don't see how in real terms. Pakistan's main reason for siding with the Arabs has probably less to do with religion as you seem to think, and more to do with monetary gain. You should understand that relationship as someone who worked in the Arab countries for the same reason despite your constant complaints against the Arabs in general.

I am sure if Israel could make it worth Pakistan's while they could persuade Pakistan to drop any ties to the Arab nations, as we have seen down the years, Pakistan can always strike a deal even with the most unlikely regimes.

 

[Varun]

You and your Indian friends keep telling us how recognising Israel would benefit Pakistan, but I still don't see how in real terms. Pakistan's main reason for siding with the Arabs has probably less to do with religion as you seem to think, and more to do with monetary gain.

Me and others are also pointing out at the same time that Pakistan will enjoy no less monetary gain if it does open its eyes to Israel while maintaining the status-quo on the Palestinian cause. Or are you suggesting that Saudi Arabia and co. will consider the move treacherous and break off diplomatic relations like it did so with Qatar?

It's Israel, not Iran - and so won't ruffle their feathers.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Me and others are also pointing out at the same time that Pakistan will enjoy no less monetary gain if it does open its eyes to Israel while maintaining the status-quo on the Palestinian cause. Or are you suggesting that Saudi Arabia and co. will consider the move treacherous and break off diplomatic relations like it did so with Qatar?

It's Israel, not Iran - and so won't ruffle their feathers.

How would Pakistan maintain the same monetary gain by opening it's eyes towards Israel? For all we know the current funds that flow from the Arab countries might well be linked to supporting their position with regard to Israel.

I don't see anything other than diplomatic points scored with some non-Muslim nations by recognising Israel, certainly none of those is going to send Pakistan any financial rewards for doing so. But if you think otherwise feel free to make your case.

 

[Adil_94]

from an Indian National P.O.V make sense why they would get closer to Israel. Not like this will hurt their relations with the Arab World which is too busy fighting each other and GCC bar Qatar is more scared of Iran than Israel.

Israel is not the same rallying cry in the M.E it once was. Sectarian rivalry and Saudi-Iran proxy war has replaced it.

 

[Third_Umpire]

I suggest you read further down the thread, someone has posted a news report today. Israel and India are working together against Pakistan. But you can carry on with your head in the sand because you want Pakistan to recognise Israel. It seems you want Pakistan to give recognition to an open enemy of Muslims. Great patriotism my friend.

That report says nothing new, nor does it change what I said. Regardless of sound bytes, this is a business deal for Israel. If Pakistan recognizes Israel and develops a relationship, we too shall be able to do business with them. As I said, this precedent already exists with many countries you would classify as enemies.

It seems you want to compromise Pakistan's civil, political, military, financial relationships and prospects in favor of some Muslim agenda, so it is your patriotism that is in question not mine. Truth is, your loyalty lies with Islam, not Pakistan and unfortunately for you, the two are not synonymous.

 

[sshakir411]

People pointing out that Pakistan might face issues with its Arab hukmaran if it recognizes Israel is bolony. The Arab peace initiative already includes majority Arab and Muslim countries and has the recognition of the State of Israel as an important part of the package. Pakistan should have recognized Israel in the 90s...we were a moderate Muslim nation then...now Israel just thinks we are home to all Muslim extremists.

 

[KingKhanWC]

That report says nothing new, nor does it change what I said. Regardless of sound bytes, this is a business deal for Israel. If Pakistan recognizes Israel and develops a relationship, we too shall be able to do business with them. As I said, this precedent already exists with many countries you would classify as enemies.

It seems you want to compromise Pakistan's civil, political, military, financial relationships and prospects in favor of some Muslim agenda, so it is your patriotism that is in question not mine. Truth is, your loyalty lies with Islam, not Pakistan and unfortunately for you, the two are not synonymous.

What business would Israel want to do with Pakistan apart from selling Pakistan weapons? Israel doesn't need Pakistan and see it as an emeny, a nation which harbours and supports so called Islamic terrorists. This is the reason why Israel feels it has very common issues with India. Israel wants India to use covert or any other means to weaken Pakistan. Simply by Pakistan recognising Israel, wont change this.

I dont have loyalty issues, all I care about is justice and speaking out against injustice.

 

[Varun]

What business would Israel want to do with Pakistan apart from selling Pakistan weapons? Israel doesn't need Pakistan and see it as an emeny, a nation which harbours and supports so called Islamic terrorists. This is the reason why Israel feels it has very common issues with India. Israel wants India to use covert or any other means to weaken Pakistan. Simply by Pakistan recognising Israel, wont change this.

Recognizing Israel will be step one in having them quit whatever activities are harming Pakistan. What's the biggie in recognizing a country anyway?

Israel is no one trick pony and have tons of things they can offer besides military specific items: a lot of agricultural, space and environmental technologies to name a few. Just name the price. There is also the clout of easier back door diplomatic access to the United States through Israel that a country shouldn't take lightly.