New Zealand [280/3] defeat South Africa [279/8] by 7 wickets in the 4th ODI to level the series 2-2

[Bilal7]

The rewards of ABD batting at number 4 far outweigh the negatives.

Also there is not a heaven or earth difference between number 4 and number 5 when it comes to chances of staying at the end overs...but there is a huge difference in the number of balls faced.

As you said, Miller and co are threat only if there is a foundation....ABD at 4 can give them the foundation they need. They can score lots quickly so that by the time he gets out, others have it easy.

Yes, SA may lose a few matches due to their lower order collapsing but they will win a lot more crucial games too if ABD clicks.

ABD played at number 5 last to last game.

He should make it a point to come at 4 and get used to it.



Despite that, he gets regarded as the best ODI bat amongst fans and critics.

And despite all the genius of ABD, he never gets talked about as the number 1 test or ODI or T20 or clutch bat.



On talent level, ABD is probably number 2 or who knows even number 1.

Top 3 minimum.

When it comes to using that talent to maximize his output for the team's cause, he is not doing what needs to be done. Operating at a different level to everyone (while true) is meaningless if your strategy is all wrong.

He would need a LOT more luck to go his way to win games batting at number 5 than at 4.

What isn't he winning in the ODI format? Apart from the World Cup, which like you and I know, is not his fault.

South Africa just won 12 ODIs in a row, they've beaten India in India, Australia, England, Sri Lanka and everyone else in recent ODI series. They're one of the favorites going into the CT as well, especially if Morkel makes a successful comeback.

Not to be rude or condescending, but I'm sure ABD, possibly the greatest ODI batsman of all time, knows what his best position in the current South Africa team is.

Regardless of his flaws, how in the world did you put Kohli over him? Kohli bats at #3, has good players all around him and yet has a poor record against three of the top ODI sides, away. In the games that India has won, he averages 20. So who is the bigger match-winner again, AB or Kohli?

 

[Ozymandiasza]

Oh look, another Kohli vs AB debate.

It's over gents, AB is simply superior. Finish en klaar.

 

[Ozymandiasza]

Also, why are you guys crapping on AB? I didn't watch the match, but he seems to be the only saffer that performed.

 

[Bilal7]

Oh look, another Kohli vs AB debate.

It's over gents, AB is simply superior. Finish en klaar.

There is no debate. Just a few voices who pop up from time to time but then get shut down by de Villiers himself. Of course, AB isn't perfect but despite his few flaws, he is still the greatest ODI bat from this generation.

Winning the WC now would simply be the icing on the cake, just like it was for Sachin in 2011.

 

[Ozymandiasza]

There is no debate. Just a few voices who pop up from time to time but then get shut down by de Villiers himself. Of course, AB isn't perfect but despite his few flaws, he is still the greatest ODI bat from this generation.

Winning the WC now would simply be the icing on the cake, just like it was for Sachin in 2011.

Amen to that.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Also, why are you guys crapping on AB? I didn't watch the match, but he seems to be the only saffer that performed.

Cos he can do much better up the order and control the game better.

This game he faced too few balls at number 5.

Its about using your talent to play knocks of more substance than just playing amazing knocks that don't impact the game.

What isn't he winning in the ODI format? Apart from the World Cup, which like you and I know, is not his fault.

South Africa just won 12 ODIs in a row, they've beaten India in India, Australia, England, Sri Lanka and everyone else in recent ODI series. They're one of the favorites going into the CT as well, especially if Morkel makes a successful comeback.

Not to be rude or condescending, but I'm sure ABD, possibly the greatest ODI batsman of all time, knows what his best position in the current South Africa team is.

Regardless of his flaws, how in the world did you put Kohli over him? Kohli bats at #3, has good players all around him and yet has a poor record against three of the top ODI sides, away. In the games that India has won, he averages 20. So who is the bigger match-winner again, AB or Kohli?

Meh.

---

As for Kohli vs ABD, I won't put Kohli over him if ABD was a gun finisher. He neither finishes well nor does he come up the order.

Criticism is valid.

ABD needs to use his talent more or all he will be is a pretty stats guy.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

ABD is not human. He is an amazing player. But gotta use your talent bud.

Duminy wasted 40 balls to scratch around for a 20.

Faf was slow too. 67 off 97.

SA could have won had ABD batted at 3. Game would have been close if ABD had batted at 4.

The numbers are there right in front of you.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/new-zealand-v-south-africa-2016-17/engine/match/1020037.html

The same Faf and Duminy can play better with ABD knocking it around from the other end.

Strategy + Usage of quality talent >>>>>>>>>>>>> Amazing talent

 

[Protea Fan]

People are harsh too harsh on AB,Wonder what more a human can do with the bat.

Today one stage SA seems like ending around 220-230 then he literally takes them to a comprehensive total with the tail

All these lambasting's are fine if he throws away his wicket just like other batters n SA got humiliated but that man played just another blinder and an omnipotent gupttil who just played arguably an inngs of his life stands bw SA and victory...I am sure that if gupttil wasn't their no way nuz making it

And yes your best batter batting at 5 is a crime but this just another bilateral series,anyone who follow SA cricket know that recently they are mixing up the team totally to find out the best playing eleven for the upcoming CT and WC so this is just a part of it

AB is a natural number four he doesn't need to bat at 3 to make things worse.Faf just won a man of the series batting at 3 and looks unflappable their,though he has had an average series going on but he is a juggernaut at that position who proved his worth

 

[Protea Fan]

ABD is not human. He is an amazing player. But gotta use your talent bud.

Duminy wasted 40 balls to scratch around for a 20.

Faf was slow too. 67 off 97.

SA could have won had ABD batted at 3. Game would have been close if ABD had batted at 4.

The numbers are there right in front of you.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/new-zealand-v-south-africa-2016-17/engine/match/1020037.html

The same Faf and Duminy can play better with ABD knocking it around from the other end.

Strategy + Usage of quality talent >>>>>>>>>>>>> Amazing talent

What if AB bats up and out cheaply then SA collapsing at 220-230 so who to blame?

It's sports we can't predict all these stuffs

Still 280 was a par score i think....Nuz get their because of the guptill special,watching the way he bats its look like even 330-340 was gettable

 

[Bilal7]

Cos he can do much better up the order and control the game better.

This game he faced too few balls at number 5.

Its about using your talent to play knocks of more substance than just playing amazing knocks that don't impact the game.



Meh.

---

As for Kohli vs ABD, I won't put Kohli over him if ABD was a gun finisher. He neither finishes well nor does he come up the order.

Criticism is valid.

ABD needs to use his talent more or all he will be is a pretty stats guy.

AB is an all-round, complete batsman who can do everything. You can criticize him but there is no way Kohli is better. Before the 2015 WC, you could say that Kohli was better in pressure situations but we all know what happened there. Kohli choked big time while AB came clutch throughout the tournament and was unlucky to not make the finals.

He's not batting at #3 because that is Faf's position, who can't bat anywhere else but is still good enough to stay in the side. He probably will come up at #4, more often now that Duminy hasn't repaid the faith that the team management had in him. Batting one number higher in the order is no big deal.

 

[Bilal7]

ABD is going to end his career as the second best ODI batsman of all time, ahead of Sachin. Insecurity is the only thing that explains the petty criticism aimed at him. It's funny because until last year, Indians were all over AB but they probably didn't expect him to leave Kohli and Dhoni in the dust and now speed towards Sachin with every match.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

What if AB bats up and out cheaply then SA collapsing at 220-230 so who to blame?

It's sports we can't predict all these stuffs

Still 280 was a par score i think....Nuz get their because of the guptill special,watching the way he bats its look like even 330-340 was gettable

It will happen but that's the risk you gotta take to control the game.

ABD will win more games scoring up the order than down the order.

Its not like ABD is some supreme finisher either. The game that went down to the wire, all the crucial shots were played by the other guy (newbie).

ABD gotta come up the order or else he needs a LOT more effort from his team to make his runs count which is risky considering how much SA choke.

 

[Smbhayi]

thought people discussing about Guptil's today's special knock, tuned in but it's another ABD-KOHLI bashing thread!

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

People are harsh too harsh on AB,Wonder what more a human can do with the bat.

Today one stage SA seems like ending around 220-230 then he literally takes them to a comprehensive total with the tail

All these lambasting's are fine if he throws away his wicket just like other batters n SA got humiliated but that man played just another blinder and an omnipotent gupttil who just played arguably an inngs of his life stands bw SA and victory...I am sure that if gupttil wasn't their no way nuz making it

And yes your best batter batting at 5 is a crime but this just another bilateral series,anyone who follow SA cricket know that recently they are mixing up the team totally to find out the best playing eleven for the upcoming CT and WC so this is just a part of it

AB is a natural number four he doesn't need to bat at 3 to make things worse.Faf just won a man of the series batting at 3 and looks unflappable their,though he has had an average series going on but he is a juggernaut at that position who proved his worth

ABD at 5 serves no purpose cos there is no one greater than him at number 4 in the team.

They should be swapping slots of others to practice and letting ABD get used to number 4.

 

[Protea Fan]

ABD is going to end his career as the second best ODI batsman of all time, ahead of Sachin. Insecurity is the only thing that explains the petty criticism aimed at him. It's funny because until last year, Indians were all over AB but they probably didn't expect him to leave Kohli and Dhoni in the dust and now speed towards Sachin with every match.

In my opinion sachin is comfortably ahead of everyone his longivity,consistency and dominance over bowlers of 2 generations were unmatchable

I don't care much about the world cup,he won it at the end of the carrier but even if not he's is GOAT ever

A wc will surely improve the legacy of the player but many here are believing it as the benchmark to decide the greatness......wonder how all these guys rate lionel messi who yet to won anything for his nation and roger federer who doesn't have a olympic gold in singles which is the biggest sporting event

 

[Aman]

1) Viv
2) Sachin
3) Dhoni
4) Kohli
5) Ponting

Kohli has the potential to surpass Viv.

 

[Aman]

It will happen but that's the risk you gotta take to control the game.

ABD will win more games scoring up the order than down the order.

Its not like ABD is some supreme finisher either. The game that went down to the wire, all the crucial shots were played by the other guy (newbie).

ABD gotta come up the order or else he needs a LOT more effort from his team to make his runs count which is risky considering how much SA choke.

This is it.

AB doesn't back him to last higher up, the chances of him getting out increase when he's facing fresher bowlers.

LOL at AB doing it all.

Morris 28 off 27 and Parnell 29 off 12.

Guptill did it all, not AB.

 

[Bilal7]

In my opinion sachin is comfortably ahead of everyone his longivity,consistency and dominance over bowlers of 2 generations were unmatchable

I don't care much about the world cup,he won it at the end of the carrier but even if not he's is GOAT ever

A wc will surely improve the legacy of the player but many here are believing it as the benchmark to decide the greatness......wonder how all these guys rate lionel messi who yet to won anything for his nation and roger federer who doesn't have a olympic gold in singles which is the biggest sporting event

Longevity matters up until a certain point. Beyond that, it doesn't count for much because a batsman who has played 200 ODIs has displayed his skill over a large enough sample size and doesn't need to play 400 ODIs. Sachin was a legendary batsman himself but Viv, and soon, AB are better. They just seem(ed) to operate at a different level to everyone else.