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New Zealand v Pakistan | 1st Test | Christchurch | Nov 17-21, 2016 | Day 2

Justcrazy said:
If Matt Henry had played instead of spinner , Pakistan would have been all put for 150 here
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I don't know why Henry is the first one to be shown the bench by NZ. He is better than nearly all of our pacers
 
Barragan said:
Oh look, here comes the guy who is playing his 2nd Test match and that too in alien conditions - oh wait.......

Pathetic that shafiq after 6 years is hiding down at no. 6 and Babar is being thrown up to no. 3, especially in these conditions.
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I understand you don't like Shafiq but at least try to make sense. How is Shafiq hiding when it's the coach/captain that decide his spot.

Shafiq isn't a "superstar" like some others that he would throw tantrums to get his batting order changed.
 
Chances are Yasir will be useless on this pitch.

All eyes on Amir
 
We are finally getting exposed. We got lucky in England because we played in later summer when the weather was quite good, especially in London and Anderson was hampered because of his shoulder.

Had we played in May like Sri Lanka, we would have been thrashed too.

We should thank the ICC for not giving us enough overseas tours during the 2010-2015 period, it has given people the illusion that this is some world class team whose batters are good enough to score overseas in tough conditions.
 
Ball has stopped swinging. This is where you need hit the deck seam bowlers which NZ lacks to extract movement out of this pitch. Henry to an extent is one.
 
Professor said:
I understand you don't like Shafiq but at least try to make sense. How is Shafiq hiding when it's the coach/captain that decide his spot.

Shafiq isn't a "superstar" like some others that he would throw tantrums to get his batting order changed.
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I'm not here to hate on shafiq or any player, but I hate the fact he is being protected at no. 6, whilst a newcomer is being thrown at the deep end.

6 years vs 2nd match, who should be batting at no. 6?

It is his fault because he didn't deliver at the top and has left a huge hole, despite playing for 6 years.
 
Bolt has such a beautiful action, a treat to watch
 
Mamoon said:
We are finally getting exposed. We got lucky in England because we played in later summer when the weather was quite good, especially in London and Anderson was hampered because of his shoulder.

Had we played in May like Sri Lanka, we would have been thrashed too.

We should thank the ICC for not giving us enough overseas tours during the 2010-2015 period, it has given people the illusion that this is some world class team whose batters are good enough to score overseas in tough conditions.
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At least you are consistent, being proven wrong in the England tour did not deter you. Anyways hopefully after Pakistan wins this match and series, you still stick with your claim that Pakistan has been exposed.
 
Barragan said:
I'm not here to hate on shafiq or any player, but I hate the fact he is being protected at no. 6, whilst a newcomer is being thrown at the deep end.

6 years vs 2nd match, who should be batting at no. 6?

It is his fault because he didn't deliver at the top and has left a huge hole, despite playing for 6 years.
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Sounds like hate to me.
 
Barragan said:
I'm not here to hate on shafiq or any player, but I hate the fact he is being protected at no. 6, whilst a newcomer is being thrown at the deep end.

6 years vs 2nd match, who should be batting at no. 6?

It is his fault because he didn't deliver at the top and has left a huge hole, despite playing for 6 years.
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Why am I not surprised its the person who's always supporting the akmals?

So apparently.. U.Akmal failed in his career coz number 6 was too low for him, and no.3 is too high for Babar? Ain't it?
 
Shafiq looks settled now, unleashing those beautiful drives..
 
Lack of match practice is another factor , only practice game was washed out. Need to see how pakistan bat in second innings.
 
Omg are we preparing for a nightwatch man already? I just saw SK wearing a helmet
 
One of these two has to score a daddy hundred, neither have shown much capability in that regard in the past however
 
Syed1 said:
He does have a point though, Babar has no business coming in at 3 in these conditions in his 2nd match
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He's the same guy who made all these excuses for Umar coz he played too low at no.6 his entire career..
 
Misbah is a better batsman than Younis, he was just unfortunate to not get a lucky break early in his career. Had he played 100 Tests for Pakistan, he would have played a lot more meaningful overseas innings in difficult conditions compared to Younis.

Far better against pace and miles better in Limited Overs as well. Comfortably the better player overall.
 
This is what happens to our bowling attack when the ball stops moving around.

If Pakistan bat well they can still get 280+
 
Professor said:
At least you are consistent, being proven wrong in the England tour did not deter you. Anyways hopefully after Pakistan wins this match and series, you still stick with your claim that Pakistan has been exposed.
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Result of this match doesn't matter. Our batsmen have been exposed. The question is will our bowlers get exposed too?
 
Syed1 said:
He does have a point though, Babar has no business coming in at 3 in these conditions in his 2nd match
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While I do agree with that, I would like azams fans to at least be consistent in their worship. One minute he is bestest ever prospect ( gee, never heard that before) and the next moment come the excuses when he plays a daft shot.
 
Pete Rose said:
Sounds like hate to me.
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Not my fault, considering it is the reality of the situation.

6 years vs 2nd match - decide which one should be at which position?

waleed88 said:
Why am I not surprised its the person who's always supporting the akmals?

So apparently.. U.Akmal failed in his career coz number 6 was too low for him, and no.3 is too high for Babar? Ain't it?
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What has Akmal got to do with this?

Obviously, Babar is playing far too high up and should be batting at no. 6.

Same goes for anyone starting their careers.
 
Plenty of bounce in this pitch ... Wahab should have been playing !

Sohail will huff and puff 5 overs and fall over.
 
Mamoon said:
Result of this match doesn't matter. Our batsmen have been exposed. The question is will our bowlers get exposed too?
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Every team has difficulties while batting in the first hour in these conditions. One innings neither exposes us neither reaffirms that we are good.
 
Barragan said:
I'm not here to hate on shafiq or any player, but I hate the fact he is being protected at no. 6, whilst a newcomer is being thrown at the deep end.

6 years vs 2nd match, who should be batting at no. 6?

It is his fault because he didn't deliver at the top and has left a huge hole, despite playing for 6 years.
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Shafiq did score a century and a couple of 50s in the short time he batted at 3 ,there were a few failures but imo did enough to be persisted with at 3 .

However Arthur rates Azam highly and thinks he is a better #3 option than Shafiq. Not really anything Shafiq can do about that,
 
Abdullah said:
Lol joker.
Dont think the difference in prep had anything to do with it.
Every1 knows you r always waiting for the right moment to throw your toys out
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It's lack of ability. They are simply not good enough when there is some lateral movement, no matter how much they practice.

Look at Younis. 16 years of experience but still a walking disaster against pace when the ball moves around.
 
I think if the commentators do a reading of 'the hobbit' , they will proving more perspective than the drivel so far.
 
Barragan said:
Not my fault, considering it is the reality of the situation.

6 years vs 2nd match - decide which one should be at which position?



What has Akmal got to do with this?

Obviously, Babar is playing far too high up and should be batting at no. 6.

Same goes for anyone starting their careers.
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That's what I'm saying, you recently had a debate with me and you said Umar Akmal (similar talent) never succeeded because he played as a no.6 all his life... Bhai aap chahtay kia hain?
 
Mamoon said:
It's lack of ability. They are simply not good enough when there is some lateral movement, no matter how much they practice.

Look at Younis. 16 years of experience but still a walking disaster against pace when the ball moves around.
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His 218 against England is one of the greatest knocks ever by a Pakistani..
 
Syed1 said:
Every team has difficulties while batting in the first hour in these conditions. One innings neither exposes us neither reaffirms that we are good.
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Correct, but we are supposed to be the best team in the world.
 
Mamoon said:
Result of this match doesn't matter. Our batsmen have been exposed. The question is will our bowlers get exposed too?
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Based on half an inning? Really? What if they score heavily in the next inning or match, would you still say they got exposed?
 
waleed88 said:
That's what I'm saying, you recently had a debate with me and you said Umar Akmal (similar talent) never succeeded because he played as a no.6 all his life... Bhai aap chahtay kia hain?
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Fandom can lead to inconsistency of thought.
 
waleed88 said:
His 218 against England is one of the greatest knocks ever by a Pakistani..
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After 6 consecutive failures, one innings means nothing. Besides, it was a flat pitch and he faced Moeen's pies at the start of the innings which allowed him to settle.

He was all over the place in England and one innings shouldn't not sweep all of that under the carpet.
 
Professor said:
Shafiq did score a century and a couple of 50s in the short time he batted at 3 ,there were a few failures but imo did enough to be persisted with at 3 .

However Arthur rates Azam highly and thinks he is a better #3 option than Shafiq. Not really anything Shafiq can do about that,
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That's the problem, he unfortunately didn't do enough to be trusted at no. 3.
 
Misbah has done a lot of work on his forward press. Evident from the England tour.
 
Professor said:
Based on half an inning? Really? What if they score heavily in the next inning or match, would you still say they got exposed?
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If the pitch eases up, they will score. However, they got exposed on a greentop and that's the point.

Unfortunately for them, we can't carry Sheikh Zayed road with us to different countries to make our batsmen look good.
 
Mamoon said:
It's lack of ability. They are simply not good enough when there is some lateral movement, no matter how much they practice.

Look at Younis. 16 years of experience but still a walking disaster against pace when the ball moves around.
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These days hardly anyone can bat in seaming conditions whichever country they are from, inc King Kohli. Look at Australia vs SA across the pond.
 
Mamoon said:
After 6 consecutive failures, one innings means nothing. Besides, it was a flat pitch and he faced Moeen's pies at the start of the innings which allowed him to settle.

He was all over the place in England and one innings shouldn't not sweep all of that under the carpet.
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Well it was match winning innings.. it was in England, it was a decider, pressure was on the man.. context matters alot.. time and time again he has proved everyone wrong
 
Slight recovery approaching lunch. If they can muster 250 odd, it will keep Pak in the game.
 
On_the_up said:
These days hardly anyone can bat in seaming conditions whichever country they are from, inc King Kohli. Look at Australia vs SA across the pond.
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Australia is the only top team whose batting is worse than ours.
 
More or less even session I guess - 3 down would have put PAK ahead. NZ attack is a bit limited with old Kookaburra - if these batsmen & tail apply properly 300 is still possible, which will be a very good score.
 
waleed88 said:
That's what I'm saying, you recently had a debate with me and you said Umar Akmal (similar talent) never succeeded because he played as a no.6 all his life... Bhai aap chahtay kia hain?
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You would have had a point, if this was ODI's.

You can play a rookie at no. 3 or 4 in ODI's, but definitely not in Test cricket.

Two different formats and they should be treated as such.
 
Mamoon said:
We are finally getting exposed. We got lucky in England because we played in later summer when the weather was quite good, especially in London and Anderson was hampered because of his shoulder.

Had we played in May like Sri Lanka, we would have been thrashed too.

We should thank the ICC for not giving us enough overseas tours during the 2010-2015 period, it has given people the illusion that this is some world class team whose batters are good enough to score overseas in tough conditions.
Click to expand...

We did not get lucky against England. Should have won 3-1. We threw one of the tests away when we had a 100+ lead at the halfway stage.

Also not lost a series since 2014 and you think we are going to get exposed. If we finally did lose a series it would not be the end of the world. Not that it will happen as I fully expect us to win this series or at the very least get a draw and keep unbeaten record going.
 
waleed88 said:
Well it was match winning innings.. it was in England, it was a decider, pressure was on the man.. context matters alot.. time and time again he has proved everyone wrong
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Yes, but his technique was exposed and he reconfirmed that he can't score on tougher pitches.

Of course he has some qualities. He rarely misses out on flat wickets.
 
waleed88 said:
Well it was match winning innings.. it was in England, it was a decider, pressure was on the man.. context matters alot.. time and time again he has proved everyone wrong
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Don't bother arguing with Mamoon over YK, he has been psychologically affected by him due to the Mohali semi vs India, he admitted it himself.
 
Pitch will flatten out but the damage is done.

We lost 4 wickets, 3 of them to reckless shots.

Mickey needs to have a strong word with the team at lunch !
 
Boom boom legend said:
We did not get lucky against England. Should have won 3-1. We threw one of the tests away when we had a 100+ lead at the halfway stage.

Also not lost a series since 2014 and you think we are going to get exposed. If we finally did lose a series it would not be the end of the world. Not that it will happen as I fully expect us to win this series or at the very least get a draw and keep unbeaten record going.
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We got lucky with the pitches. Since 2014, we have only played two Tests in difficult conditions: Old Trafford and this current match.

We got thrashed at Old Trafford and here our batting has been exposed.

Had we toured England in May, it'd have been a different story.
 
Need to get to at least 250 to have a chance. Asad 'superior technique' Shafiq has to score a hundred here.
 
On_the_up said:
Don't bother arguing with Mamoon over YK, he has been psychologically affected by him due to the Mohali semi vs India, he admitted it himself.
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It's not personal. I have never rated Younis and I have always had issues with people rating him above Inzi and MoYo.

Mohali made me lose faith in Pakistan cricket but not Younis specifically.
 
Mamoon said:
Yes, but his technique was exposed and he reconfirmed that he can't score on tougher pitches.

Of course he has some qualities. He rarely misses out on flat wickets.
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Well there is a flat 'flat' wicket that is in the UAE, Srilanka and India.. and there is a flat wicket that is pretty much the standard all over the world... you'll get one like that in every series, where the likes of all the greats feast in like Kohli, Smith, Amla, Joe Root..

Now Root played in his home ground, but he didn't do alot besides his 200 in Edgbaston (was it?).. Younis is not quite Root's level, but one good innings/match winning innings per series is still a trait that he has along with all the other top batsmen in the world..

Early to rule out a YK special this series
 
Mamoon said:
If the pitch eases up, they will score. However, they got exposed on a greentop and that's the point.

Unfortunately for them, we can't carry Sheikh Zayed road with us to different countries to make our batsmen look good.
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Most teams would struggle on green tops.
 
On_the_up said:
Who are you including in the top list? Eng/SA/India/Aus

Would you include NZ in that list?
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They are heading towards minnow status. Can only do well on green tracks at home these days.

Sri Lanka are the same. Can't compete unless they prepare rank turners vs the likes of Australia who are hopeless against spin.

Basically NZ, SL, WI and Bangladesh are at the same level now. They are not one of the top teams.
 
Just checked the score. Not bad. As expected, NZ got some wickets in the 1st session. Also expected, YK is a deer in headlights on a green track. Sami and Azhar got beauties from what it seems. The big thing that jumped out at me was Azam batting one down. I really thought that that was Shafiq's position now. Not sure if this is a good decision or not. Let's see what happens.
 
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