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New Zealand v Pakistan l 1st Test l Mount Maunganui l Dec 26 - Dec 30 2020 l Day 2 Discussion Thread

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The level of negativity we have on PP has actually driven me away from the great forum that it once was. Pakistan has bowled really well, especially on Day 1. New Zealand havent lost a home game in 3 years and these are very difficult conditions for our young attack to be playing in.

I'm going to Day 3 of the match tomorrow. Hopefully it's a good sunny day and Pakistan is batting by then.
 
The only thing that is concerning is the drop in pace that Naseem has suffered. I believe it is due to the slight tweak in his action. His non-bowling arm isnt coming up as high as before which means it reduces the catapult effect (bends less back) leading to less pace. I fear it may be a tweak enforced by Waqar.
 
Usman Qadir - the guy takes Man of the Series in previous series, operates smartly, uses variations and looks quite penetrative which Yasir clearly lacks however isn't good enough hence gets omitted from the squad...another guy (Yasir) who has been lackluster and hasn't looked penetrative at all for the last couple of years gets selected...where is the grooming of promising talent, what's going on Pakistan selection!!??

Amad Butt - Wasim Akram has been vouching for Amad Butt since last couple of years or so, those who watched him play can clearly see wicket taking penetrative abilities...he keeps on taking wickets however somehow gets ignored each time from the 16 member squad...astonishing again!!

Bring on the smarts Pakistan selection, smell the coffee!
 
The amount of hype Naseem came with during the England tour was utterly embarrassing especially once everyone had seen him.

He should be only playing in the low pitches of pak
 
Thunderbolt14 said:
It doesn’t work like that. You have no control over these complexes - these are deeply buried psychological feelings of resentment grounded in his own playing experiences.

Imagine how bad Waqar must have felt being out of the 1992 world cup because of injury. Put yourself in his shoes. One of the greatest moments in Pakistan history, not just in cricket but generally one of our greatest moments as a nation. You were a guaranteed starter and you feel you should have been part of that, but now you’re the second sibling no one remembers while Wasim and Imran take laps around the ground trophy in hand.

You then have another back injury, and are half the bowler you used to be. You’re hammered in the 1996 world cup. You consistently live in the shadow of Wasim Akram. You’re sidelined for the 1999 world cup, where Pak makes the final again, and running on your ego, you become captain for the 2003 world cup where you’re hammered, all the while Shoaib Akhtar overtakes you rapidly as the premier right arm express bowler in the team. You retire a sad retirement, without the swan song you wanted, and resolve to cement your legacy through coaching, since you were never able to achieve that glory during your actual playing days.

You fail as coach but you give it a go, then another go, then another go, then another go, and finally a go as bowling coach, because you genuinely truly need to prove to yourself that you can achieve that glory, your actual skill as a coach be damned. As one of the former top players in the world, “I can’t” has never been an answer, and it (unfortunately) continues to be the case. This is why he is so strict with his players, described by Wasim Akram, Younis Khan, Shoaib Akhtar, and now Mohammad Amir as difficult to work with, and so on - Waqar has a genuine messiah complex and any player that pushes against his tight leash interferes with his vision.

I have a lot of respect for Waqar because he had one of the most phenomenal peaks of any bowler to have ever played the game. But it is clear he has a lot of complexes, in fact not too dissimilar to Misbah who I also did a psychological profiling of based off of the 2007 T20 WC final, a moment that psychologically changed Misbah forever.

If you dig deeper on Waqar, you scratch at a certain complex he seems to have about the damage that just one serious injury can do to your career. It appears he is unloading that now on Naseem, out of a genuine sympathy where he doesn’t want him to have his career end before it even begins.

It comes from a good natured place - however, Waqar refuses to accept that maybe, possibly, it’s feasible to tweak Naseem’s action into a safer loadup without reducing his potency and zip. That would require Waqar to accept that bowling coaches with lesser records than himself have a better understanding of bowling technicals than he does, and can achieve those results that he can’t - that’s something I don’t think he will ever be ready to accept. It simply goes against the most innate fundamentals of his identity.
Click to expand...

Very well put
 
indian_sap said:
Usman Qadir - the guy takes Man of the Series in previous series, operates smartly, uses variations and looks quite penetrative which Yasir clearly lacks however isn't good enough hence gets omitted from the squad...another guy (Yasir) who has been lackluster and hasn't looked penetrative at all for the last couple of years gets selected...where is the grooming of promising talent, what's going on Pakistan selection!!??

Amad Butt - Wasim Akram has been vouching for Amad Butt since last couple of years or so, those who watched him play can clearly see wicket taking penetrative abilities...he keeps on taking wickets however somehow gets ignored each time from the 16 member squad...astonishing again!!

Bring on the smarts Pakistan selection, smell the coffee!
Click to expand...

The continues selection of Yasir shah year after year is starting to become quite unbelievable and outrageous
 
indian_sap said:
Usman Qadir - the guy takes Man of the Series in previous series, operates smartly, uses variations and looks quite penetrative which Yasir clearly lacks however isn't good enough hence gets omitted from the squad...another guy (Yasir) who has been lackluster and hasn't looked penetrative at all for the last couple of years gets selected...where is the grooming of promising talent, what's going on Pakistan selection!!??

Amad Butt - Wasim Akram has been vouching for Amad Butt since last couple of years or so, those who watched him play can clearly see wicket taking penetrative abilities...he keeps on taking wickets however somehow gets ignored each time from the 16 member squad...astonishing again!!

Bring on the smarts Pakistan selection, smell the coffee!
Click to expand...

Usman qadir hasnt played FC enough , we dont even know if he can bowl 20 overs a day. He has bowled a toral of 150 overs in 11 FC games and only has 13 wickets where his average is 51 and economy is 4.44.

you may ask for zafar gohar but Usman Qadir in test matches?
 
Embarassing to see Naseem's drop in pace. Another promising career destroyed by the management.

Can anyone recall ANY player which this management has setup for success?
 
castortroy said:
The continues selection of Yasir shah year after year is starting to become quite unbelievable and outrageous
Click to expand...

I wouldnt be surprised if his selection was more due to his test match century than his bowling. He has been downright atrocious, even if you consider him as a part time spinner.

One surprising thing is that he seems to spin the ball miles in some cases -- which indicates he still remembers how to do that -- but his stock ball seems to be the over spinner or the straight one.
 
Mediocre bowling attack making the tailender Jamieson bat like Bradman.
 
Local.Dada said:
How old is Harris Sohail and how did he pass the yoyo test?
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I reckon Azam khan would be more fit than Haris. He has had so many injury issues (in addition to ghosts) in the past and has just been getting chubbier every passing series and one more mind boggling decision on why he keeps being selected. Yes he is (was?) talented but i can bet my bottom dollar that he is going to edge one in the slips in this match ... which would indicate that he has not learnt anything at all in his career so far.
 
Abbas is another enigma ... probably another case of age - fudging. How, as a fast bowler, do these guys not get their egos effected when they see the speed gun measuring them at 120k?! that was the speed Shahid Afridi used to bowl at!
 
JibranAnsari said:
Usman qadir hasnt played FC enough , we dont even know if he can bowl 20 overs a day. He has bowled a toral of 150 overs in 11 FC games and only has 13 wickets where his average is 51 and economy is 4.44.

you may ask for zafar gohar but Usman Qadir in test matches?
Click to expand...

Usman should have been played in the T20s but agreed, playing in tests was a bit risky. However, he may not have done much worse than Yasir, I believe.
 
NoBallZombie said:
Usman should have been played in the T20s but agreed, playing in tests was a bit risky. However, he may not have done much worse than Yasir, I believe.
Click to expand...

Doing worse or better is another thing but being fit eniugh to play rest cricket is another. His last 4 day game was more than a year ago and in this period he has only played t20s which means he hasnt bowled more than 4 ovees a day
 
ExpressPacer said:
The level of negativity we have on PP has actually driven me away from the great forum that it once was. Pakistan has bowled really well, especially on Day 1. New Zealand havent lost a home game in 3 years and these are very difficult conditions for our young attack to be playing in.

I'm going to Day 3 of the match tomorrow. Hopefully it's a good sunny day and Pakistan is batting by then.
Click to expand...

It is hard to stay positive when there are so many issues with the whole team setup. It would be one thing if management had a clear plan on the team they were building for the future. Unfortunately, this is definitely not the team they are setting up for success. You have the wrong personnel, being managed in the wrong way and being setup for failure. The only strength we had was our bowling but our champion bowling coach has reduced this to a trundler brigade. The video PCB posted of Waqar coaching the bowlers seriously made me cringe, the guy knows nothing about the science of fast bowling and I have to say people on this forum are more knowledgable then him in this aspect.
 
There were other so called top bowlers from Pakistan in the Zimbabwe series (Hasnain, Imad, Wahab, Fahim etc.) however none performed or looked better than Usman throughout the series + he looks quite smart, thinks on his feet (which the current crop clearly lacks, most r dumb) + his wrong one is much better disguised than Yasir's (forget Shadab, I don't count him as a competent leg spin bowler).

Atleast give the guy a go in the dressing room, groom him...those who saw that ZIM series and his bowling will clearly agree with me
 
indian_sap said:
There were other so called top bowlers from Pakistan in the Zimbabwe series (Hasnain, Imad, Wahab, Fahim etc.) however none performed or looked better than Usman throughout the series + he looks quite smart, thinks on his feet (which the current crop clearly lacks, most r dumb) + his wrong one is much better disguised than Yasir's (forget Shadab, I don't count him as a competent leg spin bowler).

Atleast give the guy a go in the dressing room, groom him...those who saw that ZIM series and his bowling will clearly agree with me
Click to expand...

This management can only groom their egos.
 
Lol! Great bit of commitment from Naseem after twisting his ankle to still get towards the ball.
 
Waqar is cancer to the team. A good bowling coach like Allan Donald , Ian Pont , Shane Bond is required.
 
Look even the commies are showing where Abbas should be bowling. So what actually do Waqar and Misbah work on when it comes to bowling plans?
 
Very Defensive field set to Jamieson he might get impatient with just working singles.
 
shah_1 said:
Abbas missing the stumps 93%
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Hence why he's economical. In test you're not looking to hit stumps but looking for nicks back to slips, which is exactly where he bowls. If he tries to hit the stumps more often his economy would be really bad. Just as I typed this he gets the wicket from that line.
 
Kroll said:
Look even the commies are showing where Abbas should be bowling. So what actually do Waqar and Misbah work on when it comes to bowling plans?
Click to expand...

Problem is that if he pitches it up full enough to be hitting the stumps, it'll basically be a half volley because of how far down the wicket the batsmen are taking guard.

Aand Abbas finally takes a wicket
 
Abbas finds some lift off a length and gets the wicket. Southee and Wagner will come out playing shots.
 
Space Cat said:
Very Defensive field set to Jamieson he might get impatient with just working singles.
Click to expand...

In Rizwans defense, the guy started off quite aggressively and had aggressive fields for the most part however when you pick a lackluster failure like Yasir and a containing defensive medium pacer like Fahim + 400 on the horizon you ought to get back to defensive fields isn't it...just my 2 cents
 
Neil Wagner coming off his blazing 66 not out last test match will be jumping at a chance for a bat.
 
1-100, another set of disastrous bowling figures.
 
Is there any pacer in the domestic scene who can bowl +- 145 kph, and has brains unlike for example wahab?
 
I swear if i was bowling there instead of Yasir shah, I would have taken 2 or 3 wickets. I am not as bad as this guy is.
 
One thing PAK bowlers must get credit for is that they have forced Kiwis to revert back to plan B. Ideally, Kiwis would have loved to bat for 5 sessions score 575 and bowl to bat once. But, because of the RR, now they are forced to bat till 1 hour of stumps, and then try to get PAK out for cheap. If PAK also bats for 5 sessions, they can bail out a draw.
 
Pakistan has done better uptil now on Day 2 after a tough Day 1. I expect Pakistan to bat today for few overs and we could be in trouble at the end of the day. The next session bwill be extremely crucial for both teams.
 
why do pakistani fans still react like that we are a top team , we are a number 7 test team and 31 rating points below the team we are playing against.

The 2-0 loss in this series will bring us to our lowest rating rating points in a long long time.
 
JibranAnsari said:
why do pakistani fans still react like that we are a top team , we are a number 7 test team and 31 rating points below the team we are playing against.

The 2-0 loss in this series will bring us to our lowest rating rating points in a long long time.
Click to expand...

We are not bad team, we are badly managed team in the world. We are yet to find a Coach or a Mentor who can get the best out of these guys.

Misbah was never an answer never. Getting rid of Mickey was a mistake and on top getting rid of Sarfraz Ahmed was a double blunder.
 
JibranAnsari said:
why do pakistani fans still react like that we are a top team , we are a number 7 test team and 31 rating points below the team we are playing against.

The 2-0 loss in this series will bring us to our lowest rating rating points in a long long time.
Click to expand...

Agree but they can be better with better & more smarter selections...I am baffled with the same tried and test lackluster failures being selected again & again year after year (Yasir prime example, Shadab another failure in T20 & ODI)
 
lahoriyah1234 said:
We are not bad team, we are badly managed team in the world. We are yet to find a Coach or a Mentor who can get the best out of these guys.

Misbah was never an answer never. Getting rid of Mickey was a mistake and on top getting rid of Sarfraz Ahmed was a double blunder.
Click to expand...

Agreed, no one needs to accept and embrace mediocrity, we were once a top test team and can get back there.
 
lahoriyah1234 said:
We are not bad team, we are badly managed team in the world. We are yet to find a Coach or a Mentor who can get the best out of these guys.

Misbah was never an answer never. Getting rid of Mickey was a mistake and on top getting rid of Sarfraz Ahmed was a double blunder.
Click to expand...

IMHO getting rid of Sarfaraz was good riddance the guy had become more slumber and lethargic than a dead log...I seem to like Rizwan so far, his aggressive approach & mindset is a welcome change, hope the dumb management support him and give him his team
 
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