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New Zealand vs England | 1st Test | Dunedin | Mar 6-10, 2013

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cricketworm said:
His father is crying! Very touching.
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His father must have hoped that at least his son would follow in the footsteps of his own dad. Poor man only played 9 FC matches, must have been rough with such an illustrious father.
 
now even a collapse by england will leave 80-90 runs to win

timely ton by Nick in his 4th match
 
Ruri said:
His father must have hoped that at least his son would follow in the footsteps of his own dad. Poor man only played 9 FC matches, must have been rough with such an illustrious father.
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Nothing prouder than seeing your son doing better than yourself, if it's a same career or same passion, it's icing on a cake. Even if the career line is not same, every father wants their child to do better.
 
234/1.

Well done so far England.

A little sad that Cook went, but some hard work done today by the openers.
 
Justcrazy said:
This will be a pale draw , if there was no rain Poms might have even won.
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Doubtful that we could have won, even if we manage to salvage the draw tomorrow. Such a flat pitch that NZ would have been able to bat too.
 
The wicket of Cook would have given NZ hope, the still have 90 overs to bowl them out.
The odds are they will win this match.
 
Yes it'll be a draw but I sincerely hope and pray the BCs don't consider the events of this test match a one-off, and proceed to carry the momentum over the next four encounters including those in England.

It's the trap that many past sides have fallen too, hence guaranteeing them only one test win a year.
 
James said:
Robert I don't know why you invert things in this fashion...comparing Broad to Hadlee yet constantly dissing KP for not scoring on old-style pitches. Sorry mate, but it is clear to most people which of these two England players is average and which is great.
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Straw man is made of straw there James! I'm talking about Broad, not KP.

I saw a great deal of Sir Richard. Broad is similar stylistically with bat and ball, and I believe that he possesses similar skill levels in both departments.

What Broad lacks at present, and what Sir Richard had in spades, is the ability to stay in The Zone of concentrated focus for long periods. This is what distinguishes the good players from the great. Hadlee did not learn this until his late twenties. If he can learn this now, Broad still has time to become an England ATG.

Anyway - good fightback from the England openers. We have got our standard bad first test out of the way unscathed hopefully, and should now go on to win the series.

I hope Compo goes big tonight - he was picked because of his ability to do that for Somerset.
 
You English fans keep getting carried away with Stuart Broad. Yes, he's young and temperamental and will likely improve, but all comparisons with Hadlee deserve a lid on them - Rich was a classical test match all-rounder who could contribute and guts it out with the bat while being a champion bowler in a side that was more or less a one-man army. And he only grew better with age.

I've rarely seen Broad on the other hand, deliver in non-helpful conditions in the past few years. He left the Ashes tour mid-way, and also the India series after a wicketless game I recall...
 
Marshland said:
You English fans keep getting carried away with Stuart Broad. Yes, he's young and temperamental and will likely improve, but all comparisons with Hadlee deserve a lid on them - Rich was a classical test match all-rounder who could contribute and guts it out with the bat while being a champion bowler in a side that was more or less a one-man army. And he only grew better with age.

I've rarely seen Broad on the other hand, deliver in non-helpful conditions in the past few years. He left the Ashes tour mid-way, and also the India series after a wicketless game I recall...
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He was brilliant in the UAE.

Broad can be magnificent, but he wont because he can't do it consistently at the test level.

I dunno about what Robert says, but I believe Broad will go down as an unfulfilled talent, and we English produce plenty of those.
 
Ruri said:
I dunno about what Robert says, but I believe Broad will go down as an unfulfilled talent, and we English produce plenty of those.
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Stop thinking of him as an all-rounder, that is all. Consider him a new ball bowler, regardless of any runs he scores coming in at #8 or #9 in the line-up.
 
KP should be sent in after Finn, to put the cat amongst the pigeons. Risk vs Reward. Teams should always have the mentality of trying to win before settling for a draw.
If KP bats for 50 overs tomorrow, we have a game on our hands.
 
Ruri said:
He was brilliant in the UAE.

Broad can be magnificent, but he wont because he can't do it consistently at the test level.

I dunno about what Robert says, but I believe Broad will go down as an unfulfilled talent, and we English produce plenty of those.
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I think this is true, but I live in the hope that he can still do something amazing in the next eight or nine years.



Marshland said:
Stop thinking of him as an all-rounder, that is all. Consider him a new ball bowler, regardless of any runs he scores coming in at #8 or #9 in the line-up.
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Well, bating at #9 he scored 169 against two excellent Pakistani swing bowlers (plus Ajmal) under 100% overcast after Strauss, Cook, KP and Colly all failed. So he has the skill. What he lacks is the mental side.
 
Robert said:
Straw man is made of straw there James! I'm talking about Broad, not KP.

I saw a great deal of Sir Richard. Broad is similar stylistically with bat and ball, and I believe that he possesses similar skill levels in both departments.

What Broad lacks at present, and what Sir Richard had in spades, is the ability to stay in The Zone of concentrated focus for long periods. This is what distinguishes the good players from the great. Hadlee did not learn this until his late twenties. If he can learn this now, Broad still has time to become an England ATG.

Anyway - good fightback from the England openers. We have got our standard bad first test out of the way unscathed hopefully, and should now go on to win the series.

I hope Compo goes big tonight - he was picked because of his ability to do that for Somerset.
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what? Barbie and Hadlee in the same breath? Wow, talk about cheerleading.
 
soso_killer said:
what? Barbie and Hadlee in the same breath? Wow, talk about cheerleading.
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I do wish people would learn to read properly, instead of cherrypick two words and extrapolate some entirely false conclusion in their own heads......
 
Great day for us! But still need to bat another day. If we collapse and get out after tea, NZ might fancy promoting Brendon for a quick chase. We've never known how to bowl to him.
 
James said:
Great day for us! But still need to bat another day. If we collapse and get out after tea, NZ might fancy promoting Brendon for a quick chase. We've never known how to bowl to him.
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Could certainly do with some more rain - but I want to see Compo go big.
 
Robert said:
I do wish people would learn to read properly, instead of cherrypick two words and extrapolate some entirely false conclusion in their own heads......
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i think its safe to say that Broard has shown no sign of being an ATG, i'm sorry. A few sporadic performances, do not constitute greatness. At his age he should be showing consistency, especialy when you take into account that he was given an opportunity at such a young age. To be frank he hasn't.
 
Robert said:
Could certainly do with some more rain - but I want to see Compo go big.
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a win is still possible, New Zealand were recently bowled out under 20 overs by South Africa, we need to be positive here. Send KP in, hoe gou hoe better. Stop the negativity
 
soso_killer said:
i think its safe to say that Broard has shown no sign of being an ATG, i'm sorry. A few sporadic performances, do not constitute greatness. At his age he should be showing consistency, especialy when you take into account that he was given an opportunity at such a young age. To be frank he hasn't.
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As much as I love Jimmy and Fred, England's best pacers in the modern times, even they would proud of some of the spells that Broad puts it wh. I doubt Broad will ever average in the low 20's bowling wise, but the opposition always fear him because of the X-factor he brings. In a way it also complements England's bowling attack nicely with Jimmy being Mr.Consistent.
 
Good fightback from england but still another days solid batting needed to save this one.
 
98 overs to play. If KP, Bell and Prior can put on quick runs it would at least save the game and might even make a result possible. But either way we need to bat 70 overs. And this is only the 1st Test so perhaps not worth the risk.
 
James said:
Broad feared :)))
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The fact that Andy Flower chose a crocked Broad over Finn for the first two tests in India does prove that the team director is aware of what Broad brings to the team. And there is no one more sager in English cricket today than Andy Flower.
 
Gunther said:
The fact that Andy Flower chose a crocked Broad over Finn for the first two tests in India does prove that the team director is aware of what Broad brings to the team. And there is no one more sager in English cricket today than Andy Flower.
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Yes the enduring image of those two tests was Boogeyman Broad bowling with Prior standing up to the stumps.
 
Finn bowls 90mph and gets extra bounce, that is actually a scary thing to face.

Broad bowls 80mph on the same length so it sits up and turns into a pie.
 
Standout innings of this match IMO is Compton, class through the off-side and in our lineup only Bell and Pietersen have more shots. I think we have pinpointed that it is a mental thing with Nick - which is nonetheless very important in Test cricket! - so hopefully with the monkey off his back he will now go from strength to strength. After registering his hundred he actually smiled! Had never seen his expression look anything but sad or worried before that lol.
 
I just hope the BCs carry on the momentum to the next few tests like I mentioned, and not deflate like they usually do. Ross and Kane need to score a few.
 
NZ can still win, bowl us out after tea and get Brendon to open and chase 120.

Conversely that would also give us a chance of winning but in all likelihood this is a draw or a slim chance of an NZ win.
 
Marshland said:
I just hope the BCs carry on the momentum to the next few tests like I mentioned, and not deflate like they usually do. Ross and Kane need to score a few.
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It is a shame that NZ won't bat again in this game as they usually tend to choke big time in their 2nd innings. Had there been no rain, England might even have fancied a victory here
 
If the Black Caps always drop off in the end, it annoys me that England seem to be the opposite - swanning their way through the opening stages and then when they realise they've gone up the brown creek, suddenly pull it out of the hat and perform amazingly, although sometimes it's too late by then. Backs against the wall. I've noticed this in working environments as well, a very English trait.
 
You are right on this one.

Lost the first game in Ahmedabad v India
Lost the first game at the Oval v SA
Lost the first game in Galle v SL
Lost the first game in Abu Dhabi v Pak

Add Brisbane and Dunedin to this and it does not make for a pretty picture.
 
Gunther said:
As much as I love Jimmy and Fred, England's best pacers in the modern times, even they would proud of some of the spells that Broad puts it wh. I doubt Broad will ever average in the low 20's bowling wise, but the opposition always fear him because of the X-factor he brings. In a way it also complements England's bowling attack nicely with Jimmy being Mr.Consistent.
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LOL, have you seen his number against South Africa? Are you telling me Barbie sends shivers to Amla's spine? Finn is way better than Broard sorry, he has the potential to be anything he wants and can bowl at 90MPH. Now thats someone who has the potential to be an ATG.
 
Gunther said:
You are right on this one.

Lost the first game in Ahmedabad v India
Lost the first game at the Oval v SA
Lost the first game in Galle v SL
Lost the first game in Abu Dhabi v Pak

Add Brisbane and Dunedin to this and it does not make for a pretty picture.
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Yeah especially with most Test series being 2 or 3 games now, we can't get away with being lazy starters anymore. Even in the 2005 Ashes - arguably our finest hour - we got hammered at Lord's. We have to start winning the opening Test now and again.
 
LOL, i was watching Sky sports news earlier and Bob Willis said "this match will favour Jonathan Trott, because it will be a 5 hour net session for him. And then the extravagant players down the order will come in and look to be arrogant. Lol, Why do i get a feeling thats a direct taunt at KP, whats arrogant about playing positive cricket?
 
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soso_killer said:
LOL, have you seen his number against South Africa? Are you telling me Barbie sends shivers to Amla's spine? Finn is way better than Broard sorry, he has the potential to be anything he wants and can bowl at 90MPH. Now thats someone who has the potential to be an ATG.
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I do not deny that Broad has been a touch off color since that series against SA last summer. But I do genuinely believe that he was quite fatigued by that time and was playing through a nasty heel injury. He was clocking 90 mph regularly at the begining of the year but lost his pace sometime in middle of the summer. Also, I would not have terribly bothered if he had been told to rest and England only got him back for start of the English summer.

As for Finn, he is quicker than Broad but that does not make him a better bowler, does it ? The success England has acheived under Flower (and Saker as the bowling coach) are down to nitty-gritties such as bowling dry, bowling in the channels and exploiting conditions when they turn out to be helpful. Finn really needs bit more time to achieve Jimmy n Broad's bowling discipline. If Bres can sort out his elbow and get back to bowling in the mid 80s mph, Jimmy, Broad and Bresnan are the best pick for the home Ashes.
 
Willis is the senile old man you see in a home, or bump into in the pub when he's knelt over his 7th Sunday afternoon pint, the kind of bloke who just makes comments on all and sundry from day to day with no consistency. If KP comes in tomorrow and scores a quickfire ton then Bob will be praising the arrogant edge to his game.

It's good value though. That is what Sky have built him up as: the raving moaning Jimmy Hill kind of character :rondu
 
I do not mind Willis and Botham. They provide a quite refreshing complement to Atherton's tedious and overbearing sense of always trying to be pc and maintain a sense of neutrality :D
 
Gunther said:
The fact that Andy Flower chose a crocked Broad over Finn for the first two tests in India does prove that the team director is aware of what Broad brings to the team. And there is no one more sager in English cricket today than Andy Flower.
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Hmmm.... remember when Druncan Feltcher kept picking Giles over Monty, because the former might score 25 runs?

These Southern Africans seem to rate all-round contribution over pure wicket-taking ability.


James said:
If the Black Caps always drop off in the end, it annoys me that England seem to be the opposite - swanning their way through the opening stages and then when they realise they've gone up the brown creek, suddenly pull it out of the hat and perform amazingly, although sometimes it's too late by then. Backs against the wall. I've noticed this in working environments as well, a very English trait.
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Yup, Battle of Britain and all that.... we need a crisis before we start scrapping and pulling together.
 
Gunther said:
I do not mind Willis and Botham. They provide a quite refreshing complement to Atherton's tedious and overbearing sense of always trying to be pc and maintain a sense of neutrality :D
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Exactly, you need a bit of everything to both captivate an audience and also satisfy every portion of it. Sky have a great team. Gower and Atherton are the ultra-PC diplomats, Hussain is the geeky expert analyst, Botham is the drunken lout, Willis is the moaning old fart, and Nick Knight...well never mind about Nick Knight. I don't think anybody is quite sure of his role, purpose or weight of contribution.
 
Gunther said:
It is a shame that NZ won't bat again in this game as they usually tend to choke big time in their 2nd innings. Had there been no rain, England might even have fancied a victory here
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Indeed, there's a plethora of Kiwi scorecards stored in the third and fourth innings chokebook. Even a few months ago in Sri Lanka we could have won the first test barring that horrendous display in the second dig.
 
So what are we saying then, lead of 200 with 28 overs left and dangle the carrot? :D
 
James said:
So what are we saying then, lead of 200 with 28 overs left and dangle the carrot? :D
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Dunedin does a creepy resemblence to SWALEC at Cardiff with some of the greenery around. Lightening striking twice and all that jazz
 
There are chances of showers inbound to Dunedin for the whole of day 5 as well, so we mightn't even get that far.

Draw.
 
England have done enough to scrape a draw against the mighty Enzed.
 
Hopefully the conditions will be overcast that would mean swing for the NZ pacers.
With Cook gone and the ball swinging the NZ bowlers will really have a chance to win it for NZ.
Martin would need to step up too.
 
James said:
Standout innings of this match IMO is Compton, class through the off-side and in our lineup only Bell and Pietersen have more shots. I think we have pinpointed that it is a mental thing with Nick - which is nonetheless very important in Test cricket! - so hopefully with the monkey off his back he will now go from strength to strength. After registering his hundred he actually smiled! Had never seen his expression look anything but sad or worried before that lol.
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I would like to take this moment and say, I knew it.

I've been calling Compton's issue a mental problem, you could see how dreadfully nervous he was out there, especially in the 90s. Hopefully, he'll start going well now. That screaming celebration as he hit 100 said it for me. Cook calls him a very intense character on the field, absorbed in his batting and needing to make runs.



And re the Broad thing, Broad is the bowling version of Ramprakash to me. Possibly one of the most talented bowlers in England, and easily the most mentally fragile. I don't know what is up with his pace though. He bowled second best after Jimmy this innings, but lets be honest, everyone was dreadful regardless. Jimmy's been hitting 138-140 relatively consistently, and when Jimmy is faster than you, you have a major problem.
 
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To be fair though I'm willing to reserve judgment on our bowlers. This is a very flat pitch - 500 ought to be par for the first innings. Our first day batting was just unbelievably horribly cack. 167 was nothing to work with.
 
James said:
Exactly, you need a bit of everything to both captivate an audience and also satisfy every portion of it. Sky have a great team. Gower and Atherton are the ultra-PC diplomats, Hussain is the geeky expert analyst, Botham is the drunken lout, Willis is the moaning old fart, and Nick Knight...well never mind about Nick Knight. I don't think anybody is quite sure of his role, purpose or weight of contribution.
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What about Bumble?

Cheeky uncle?
 
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Gunther said:
I do not mind Willis and Botham. They provide a quite refreshing complement to Atherton's tedious and overbearing sense of always trying to be pc and maintain a sense of neutrality :D
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i'm sorry but Atherton is the best of the lot. He was the one guy that was sane last summer when the english media had a false sense of superiority. I remember how Athers was cut off everytime he wanted to warn his fellow country men about how dangerous SA will be. E.g. "England will feel as slight favourites, its their home conditions and have not lost here since 2008 to South Africa, however this English unit is a better side to the side SA defeated (which is a fair analyses). But SA are dangerous and...." then they would cut him off (SKY PRESENTERS). Everytime he wanted to state that SA should not be taken lightly and analyse their strengths (which is his job) he was censored. All the English media wanted to hear was how good/superior their bowling attack was, or how good their batting line up was even though SA had 4 in the top 10 rankings compared to 1/2 to England. This is a point Athers tried to raise especially, but nobody gave him a chance. England paid the price for that.

is this the type of analysis you want?

Nick Knight: "Jimmy is one of the best, if not the best"
M. Vaughan: "Jimmy is slightly better than Steyn (prior to Eng vs SA)"
Botham: "i cant see England losing at home to South Africa, i cant even see them losing a test, 2-0 England. I'd even go for 3-0 if it was not for the wettest summer in British history"
The English media: "Swann and Anderson are equivalent to McGrath and Warne"
English media: "England are set to dominate for a decade (prior to the U.A.E tour)"
Bumble and Nasser always find a way to annoy me with their bias commentary, never giving credit to the opposition. When England get dominated they are crap, when they win they are the greatest English side since 1903.
________________________
if you prefer the typical cheerleading style of the English media then thats you prerogative. But for me it has to be Atherton by a galaxy.
 
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Marshland said:
Stop thinking of him as an all-rounder, that is all. Consider him a new ball bowler, regardless of any runs he scores coming in at #8 or #9 in the line-up.
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Broad is a bowler who became an all-rounder based on circumstance. His dad being an opening batsman probably added to the myth that he was an all-rounder but at the end of the day he is a poor man's Flintoff at best imo.

One of the main reasons that South Africa are ranked number 1 in the world is because they have the best all-rounder in the world, if England can find a real all-rounder(Woakes possibly) instead of a few bowlers who can bat(Swann, Broad, Bresnan) then we may be able to challenge for the top spot again.

Back on topic, I don't see why people are suggesting that England should look to build a total and then declare, just bat out the day and move on to the next test.
 
The day starts with a very beautiful rendition of the Jerusalem by the Barmy Army. They are such an asset.
 
Gotta love the Barmy Army. Even when their team was getting thrashed at home and away, they came with passion and supported their team. They were fierce critics but never resorted to stone throwing and effigy burning unlike some fans especially in the SC. (Any UK fans can probably correct me if there has been any stone throwing or effigy burning which happened before).

There are wise and smart SC fans too but the maniacs tend to take the spotlight as it always happens.
 
Even Finn's wicket is vital, if he can hang around and wear down the new ball, would make it much easier to withstand.
 
leatherface58 said:
Gotta love the Barmy Army. Even when their team was getting thrashed at home and away, they came with passion and supported their team. They were fierce critics but never resorted to stone throwing and effigy burning unlike some fans especially in the SC. (Any UK fans can probably correct me if there has been any stone throwing or effigy burning which happened before).

There are wise and smart SC fans too but the maniacs tend to take the spotlight as it always happens.
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Barmy Army are true cricket fans, test cricket is no.1 for them and very knowledgeable. Good sense of humor as well :yk
 
leatherface58 said:
Gotta love the Barmy Army. Even when their team was getting thrashed at home and away, they came with passion and supported their team. They were fierce critics but never resorted to stone throwing and effigy burning unlike some fans especially in the SC. (Any UK fans can probably correct me if there has been any stone throwing or effigy burning which happened before).

There are wise and smart SC fans too but the maniacs tend to take the spotlight as it always happens.
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The Barmy Army is wonderful. For them a trip to Australia even during the thrashings of a few trips ago was still worth the fun of good cricket, and getting drunk to forget poor English play.
 
leatherface58 said:
Gotta love the Barmy Army. Even when their team was getting thrashed at home and away, they came with passion and supported their team. They were fierce critics but never resorted to stone throwing and effigy burning unlike some fans especially in the SC. (Any UK fans can probably correct me if there has been any stone throwing or effigy burning which happened before).

There are wise and smart SC fans too but the maniacs tend to take the spotlight as it always happens.
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We have a culture of fair play and stuff, we invented these sports as games. It's only a bit of fun at the end of the day.
 
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