What's new

Osama Bin Laden is DEAD

The reason that many so-called conspiracy theories arise is because their are so many conflicting stories at the time of the event. Look how many conflicting stories there were at the time of 9-11, look at how many u-turns have been made in this saga. The main problem is the "officials" can't even agree what the "official" story is. No concrete proof is provided, questions are asked, brushed under the carpet, then there's a media campaign and an official story is pounded on our tv sets without evidence, without even logical deduction at times, it's just pounded in.

Ironically, when some (not all) investigative journalists decide to go further, raise questions, and present an alternative, with pretty much more investigation than is discussed publically, they get labelled conspiracy theorists.

As for the truth, who knows what it is. The main point is Osama or Usama is irrelevant and has been for a number of years. Whether he died now or 7/8 years ago is of no concern to me.
 
Ok lets indulge..

For your issue 1:
So they invaded Iraq because of WMD's killed people in the millions then pretty much admitted there were no WMD's. These guys would have issues with criticism ?
How about the fact that maybe just maybe not pick a house with 20 odd people living in it ?

They had a better reputation before Iraq(in many eyes). Obama was elected because he would instill some reputation back so we can see the PR machine at work. As for the house we don't know why they went there apart their official narrative.

For your issue 2:
Lets assume thats true. Then why in the holly hell create this whole drama. If they have this kind of control over ISI then why have this huge drama man ?

You see what I am saying either way it does not make any sense whatsoever.

It does, Obama had issued statements he will pull troops out of Afghanistan in 2011 and this could be a great way of reaching this goal with OBL dead. Killing Obama has increased his ratings in a huge way and helped Americans to 'bring closure' on 911.


But you are looking through the prism of your life time. History doesn't deal with small time frames. Go back in time and look at any nation that ruled the world and you will see trends.
Look at anyone even our own empires that existed God knows how long ago. You will notice trends, similarities even down right copied events. Its a dirty business running the world man and no one comes out clean.

Most people are worried about current history taking shape. US policies have directly or indirectly killed millions of people. Children are being blown up in Loas by ordanance dropped by American decades ago. Just because there has been Empires in the past doesn't mean we should bury our heads now.


Really so if Americans appointed an "independent" body to test the dead body and say its Osama you would have believed it ? I dont think so man. You would have said the yanks appointed the commission it was fixed. There is no way to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt to you unless you were in the room with the guys and saw it. Even then I sure you will question it because of the yanks.
Saddam was a head of state. Osama isnt a head of state. World does not work that way. You don't enter a country kill a head of state because it creates precedents. They killed his sons the same way.
They had no other real options really. They couldn't take him back to states and try him because it would have caused a gigantic security issue. It would have caused the same legal issues as they are facing trying to convict the Gitmo detainees. If he died during trial by whatever means there would have been a shitstrom of people saying they killed him in custody. Then there is the question of what to do with the body. Saddam was an Iraqi in Iraq tried by Iraqis. Call it a sham or whatever but thats how it was designed. Osama didnt have that liberty.
If you followed the coverage at no point they said they wanted to arrest him. Infact every news outlet mentioned the fact that the operation was designed to kill him.

OBL is a far more valuable target than Saddam ever was. It doesn't matter if he wasn't head of state since they have invaded Pakistan to kill him. It's a poor excuse by America that brining OBL back would have caused a problem for them since they are also claiming his killing has caused massive security issues for them anyway. The appointed forensic officials would have been known and their credibility would have been known, so if it was fine then nobody would have complained.


No it has not there are difference in details. Thats true for every single event in the history of the world. You are getting quotes from people not involved in the operation. One guys says something then the next guy wants to enjoy his 15 minutes of fame and changes the details a bit. That does not mean it didnt happen. Gun or no gun human shield or not he was shot in the head.

No I was referring to the offical account being changed.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/may/04/osama-bin-laden-killing-us-story-change

It's clearly a pack of lies which has caused their narrative to be changed in huge way.

If they can't make their mind up, how the heck can anyone who doesn't trust them believe it?
 
Even if the photos were released then the same idiots would think it was fakery. You can't account for stupid people.


I suppose you were one of those chaps who believed Saddam could launch a WMD on Britain in 45 mins? :))
 
The notion of 9/11 being arranged by the CIA is as ridiculous to me as anything else that has ever been suggested about a major international incident. Even more so than the 45 minute WMD theory. I know which one of the two you fancy to be true and I'm not afraid to mock you over it, because it's comically thin.

Obama was correct not to release the photos, and correct in his thinking that they only would be misused.

You can never satisfy everyone. People are constantly searching for a conspiracy theory so they can express their own prejudices and insecurities.

America, Pakistan, the UN and Al Qaeda have all acknowledged both the operation and the death of bin Laden. That's enough for most, and so it should be.
 
Last edited:
The notion of 9/11 being arranged by the CIA is as ridiculous to me as anything else that has ever been suggested about a major international incident. Even more so than the 45 minute WMD theory. I know which one of the two you fancy to be true and I'm not afraid to mock you over it, because it's comically thin.

Obama was correct not to release the photos, and correct in his thinking that they only would be misused.


You can never satisfy everyone. People are constantly searching for a conspiracy theory so they can express their own prejudices and insecurities.

America, Pakistan, the UN and Al Qaeda have all acknowledged both the operation and the death of bin Laden. That's enough for most, and so it should be.

You seem very convinced. Do you by any chance know someone closely associated with Mr Obama?
 
I read news and opinion online and offline, considering outlets from all fronts of the political spectrum. I watch television; I listen to the radio. I also have a powerful grey mass in between my ears that is quite adept at making its own decisions. The intent and ability to absorb information is the best substitute, when one is unable to have tea with Barack Obama or take a guided tour of Abbottabad. If the conspiracy theorists have as convincing a collection of evidence as this, I'd love to see it with my own eyes.
 
I read news and opinion online and offline, considering outlets from all fronts of the political spectrum. I watch television; I listen to the radio. I also have a powerful grey mass in between my ears that is quite adept at making its own decisions. The intent and ability to absorb information is the best substitute, when one is unable to have tea with Barack Obama or take a guided tour of Abbottabad. If the conspiracy theorists have as convincing a collection of evidence as this, I'd love to see it with my own eyes.

Ah. So seeing as you're unable to present yourself at the scene of the crime, it maybe better for you to listen to those who were there before and after. Here it is on the "online news":

<iframe width="560" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/lW7OywJlT8o" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 
I read news and opinion online and offline, considering outlets from all fronts of the political spectrum. I watch television; I listen to the radio. I also have a powerful grey mass in between my ears that is quite adept at making its own decisions. The intent and ability to absorb information is the best substitute, when one is unable to have tea with Barack Obama or take a guided tour of Abbottabad. If the conspiracy theorists have as convincing a collection of evidence as this, I'd love to see it with my own eyes.

So perhaps you can explain why our government in Britain is giving huge aid to the Pakistan government (read the headlines a few weeks back) while trumpeting on front page news that Osama was found on Pakistan territory?
 
Last edited:
I read news and opinion online and offline, considering outlets from all fronts of the political spectrum. I watch television; I listen to the radio. I also have a powerful grey mass in between my ears that is quite adept at making its own decisions. The intent and ability to absorb information is the best substitute, when one is unable to have tea with Barack Obama or take a guided tour of Abbottabad. If the conspiracy theorists have as convincing a collection of evidence as this, I'd love to see it with my own eyes.

you are making a little too much sense for this thread, treading dangerously close to being dismissed as stupid, retard, fascist or evil american (or british in your case). You must assimiliate, resistance is futile.
 
<iframe width="425" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/2OA_cNmNojQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 
you are making a little too much sense for this thread, treading dangerously close to being dismissed as stupid, retard, fascist or evil american (or british in your case). You must assimiliate, resistance is futile.

You do know that comment can be reciprocated?
 
I will deal with various points separately...

Someone mentioned that if Bin Laden was dead before then it would have been mentioned before...

It was announced that Bin Laden had a funeral towards the end of December 01...

Translation of Funeral Article in Egyptian Paper:
al-Wafd, Wednesday, December 26, 2001 Vol 15 No 4633
News of Bin Laden's Death
and Funeral 10 days ago

Islamabad -
A prominent official in the Afghan Taleban movement announced yesterday the death of Osama bin Laden, the chief of al-Qa'da organization, stating that binLaden suffered serious complications in the lungs and died a natural and quiet death. The official, who asked to remain anonymous, stated to The Observer of Pakistan that he had himself attended the funeral of bin Laden and saw his face prior to burial in Tora Bora 10 days ago. He mentioned that 30 of al-Qa'da fighters attended the burial as well as members of his family and some friends from the Taleban. In the farewell ceremony to his final rest guns were fired in the air. The official stated that it is difficult to pinpoint the burial location of bin Laden because according to the Wahhabi tradition no mark is left by the grave. He stressed that it is unlikely that the American forces would ever uncover any traces of bin Laden.

It was mentioned in 2002 that he had died...

Source in Afghanistan says he is dead...this was dismissed

http://www.nytimes.com/2002/07/11/o...0&en=373a282aeff2716a&ei=5070&todaysheadlines

Bin Laden was reported to be met by a member of the CIA two months prior to 9 11 in a hospital in Dubai...it is based on Le Figaro paper in France who based their information on French intelligence...Washington and the hospital denied this...there were also reports that Bin Laden was suffering from Hepatitis C and would realistically only live for another two years...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2001/nov/01/afghanistan.terrorism

Musharaff mentions that Bin Laden is most likely dead because he is a kidney patient...he discusses published photos which show that Bin Laden is clearly ill...

http://edition.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/asiapcf/south/01/18/gen.musharraf.binladen/
http://edition.cnn.com/2002/HEALTH/01/21/gupta.otsc/

Israeli intelligence says Bin Laden is dead in 2002...

http://www.welfarestate.com/binladen/funeral/israel-intel.txt

Obviously these aren't evidence...they are assumptions...but what isnt in doubt is he was a kidney patient and was in ill health...

FBI state he is probably dead...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/2135473.stm

Benazir states he was murdered by Omar Sheikh...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UnychOXj9Tg

Now obviously these are varying accounts...but someone appeared to suggest that the idea that Bin Laden was dead ages ago was based on nothing...

The kidney explanation for me is quite convincing really...
 
So perhaps you can explain why our government in Britain is giving huge aid to the Pakistan government (read the headlines a few weeks back) while trumpeting on front page news that Osama was found on Pakistan territory?

Are you suggesting that the West was helping Pakistan help Osama? I really can't decide what your question is, or what your question isn't. This is another problem with conspiracy theory. Too many questions, not enough answers. At least the archetypal 'generally accepted course of events' is unafraid of providing a thesis and answering it.
 
Last edited:
I will deal with various points separately...

Someone mentioned that if Bin Laden was dead before then it would have been mentioned before...

It was announced that Bin Laden had a funeral towards the end of December 01...



It was mentioned in 2002 that he had died...

Source in Afghanistan says he is dead...this was dismissed

http://www.nytimes.com/2002/07/11/o...0&en=373a282aeff2716a&ei=5070&todaysheadlines

Bin Laden was reported to be met by a member of the CIA two months prior to 9 11 in a hospital in Dubai...it is based on Le Figaro paper in France who based their information on French intelligence...Washington and the hospital denied this...there were also reports that Bin Laden was suffering from Hepatitis C and would realistically only live for another two years...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2001/nov/01/afghanistan.terrorism

Musharaff mentions that Bin Laden is most likely dead because he is a kidney patient...he discusses published photos which show that Bin Laden is clearly ill...

http://edition.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/asiapcf/south/01/18/gen.musharraf.binladen/
http://edition.cnn.com/2002/HEALTH/01/21/gupta.otsc/

Israeli intelligence says Bin Laden is dead in 2002...

http://www.welfarestate.com/binladen/funeral/israel-intel.txt

Obviously these aren't evidence...they are assumptions...but what isnt in doubt is he was a kidney patient and was in ill health...

FBI state he is probably dead...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/2135473.stm

Benazir states he was murdered by Omar Sheikh...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UnychOXj9Tg

Now obviously these are varying accounts...but someone appeared to suggest that the idea that Bin Laden was dead ages ago was based on nothing...

The kidney explanation for me is quite convincing really...

Best post in this thread. I'd like for the US to enlighten us on how he managed to survive for so long with poisoned kidneys.
 
A lot on here seem to be labelling everyone conspiracy theorists because they don't believe the US...

On the witness thing...I'm not saying this is the case but these witnesses may not be who they say they are...its a genuine concern that they may be agents for the US...if there are witnesses to confirm the US story that is naturally more convincing than no witnesses at all...

The US isn't exactly credible and has got natives to lie before...

Does anyone remember the fake incubator babies story?...a fake eyewitness testimony by a 15 year old Kuwaiti girl where she stated Iraqis came into hospitals in Kuwait and removed babies from incubators and left to die...this Kuwaiti civilian was then revealed to be the Kuwaiti ambassadors daughter and was coached to give testimony...

<iframe width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/yJzQcsSVR7E" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 
Last edited:
When a bloke says that he lived in Abbottabad and never would have believed that Osama lived in the same vicinity, it is very easy for me to argue that we never know who a lot of our neighbours are. We never meet them or even see them.
 
Are you suggesting that the West was helping Pakistan help Osama? I really can't decide what your question is. This is another problem with conspiracy theory. Too many questions, not enough answers. At least the archetypal 'generally accepted course of events' is unafraid of providing a thesis and answering it.

I too read the online news, offline news, have grey mass and all that.

That leads me to assimilate your scenario with ordinary German citizens who gulped away at everything Nazi Propaganda fed them. They probably didn't like too many questions either. But then again the Jews didn't like the answers.
 
When a bloke says that he lived in Abbottabad and never would have believed that Osama lived in the same vicinity, it is very easy for me to argue that we never know who a lot of our neighbours are. We never meet them or even see them.

He owned a property next door! If American intelligence is correct, Osama had lived there for over 5 years. That's 10 Eids(Muslim Christmas) as a Muslim without knowing your neighbour.
 
Surely he wouldn't come out of the house, sit on a balcony, or open a window without the blinds down. You can definitely hide a person in a house. All a person needs to live indefinitely is food, water and shelter. Fritzl had a basement full of invisible people for many years. Such situations fulfil the philosophy that says the notion of your existence depends on who knows that you exist, and who doesn't.

I think the implication of me as a fascist is unfair when I have dozens of independent/non-censored media outlets to absorb and the Germany of the 1930s did not.
 
Last edited:
And finally...the biggest conspiracy theorists of all incidentally are those who state than Bin Laden was involved in 9 11...

Without going into the whole 9 11 inside job theory I did find it amusing today how some guy was telling me how it is inconceivable it is that Pakistan would not be able to know what happened in terms of Osama's murder...and its ridiculous they say they didnt know...I concurred and suggested yeah its nearly as ridiculous as the suggestion that the US didnt know about 9 11 ;-)...that shut the guy up...

Anyhow...besides the fact that the identity of the hijackers was a sham there was of course this sham of a tape that was purported to be Bin Laden confessing to being behind 9 11...

<iframe width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/41UAnkQARFs" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

If anyone tells me that is Bin Laden then they really need to be institutionalised...

This video was found by chance in Jalalabad...

"For those who see this tape, they'll realise that not only is he guilty of incredible murder, he has no conscience and no soul, that he represents the worst of civilisation," said President George W Bush. US Senator Ron Wyden, who has also seen the tape, says he hopes it will remove suspicions in countries such as Pakistan that the 11 September attacks were an Israeli plot aimed at drawing the US into a war with Islamic countries

The authenticity was questioned by many sources...the translation was questioned by many sources...

http://dc.indymedia.org/newswire/display/16801

They even misidentified the other person in the video...

http://archives.cnn.com/2001/US/12/16/ret.tape.identity/index.html

"It is preposterous for anybody to think that this tape is doctored," Bush said during a brief photo opportunity with the prime minister of Thailand. "That's just a feeble excuse to provide weak support for an incredibly evil man."

The FBI themselves said that the reason Bin Ladin isnt on their most wanted list is:

When asked why there is no mention of 9/11 on Bin Laden’s Most Wanted web page, [Rex Tomb, Chief of Investigative Publicity for the FBI] said, “The reason why 9/11 is not mentioned on Usama Bin Laden’s Most Wanted page is because the FBI has no hard evidence connecting Bin Laden to 9/11.”

So what exactly had Bin Laden been PROVED to do other than incite hate...

Also if someone can please tell me why Bush declined the Afghan governments offer where they stated they would hand over Bin Laden if the US can provide evidence that Bin Laden was behind 9 11 and ensure he could get a trial in a 3rd country?...

So who is the conspiracy theorist...the person who believes that video or the one who questions it?...
 
So who is the conspiracy theorist...the person who believes that video or the one who questions it?...

Your comment perfectly encapsulates the dilemma of debates like this. The conflict of differing politics is a circular process by nature.
 
Surely he wouldn't come out of the house, sit on a balcony or open a window without the blinds down. You can definitely hide a person in a house. Fritzl had a basement full of invisible people for many years. Such situations fulfil that philosophical notion of your existence depending on somebody else knowing that you exist.

I think the implication of me as a fascist is unfair when I have dozens of media outlets to absorb and the Germany of the 1930s did not.

I've nowhere implied you as a fascist. Merely stating your ignorance of non-mainstream news and of Pakistani culture, which is quite intrusive by nature. As far as I've read the Germans had their choice , obviously not as diverse as today, but they were informed about what they 'needed to know'. Not to dissimilar to today's common source of news.

I don't know much about where or how Fritzl lived, but I can't see how to compare Pakistani social structure with Germany's.
 
Last edited:
To what level have you studied the history of Germany in the 1930s? There is no way that the media in the post-9/11 climate can be compared to the will of the Third Reich. In terms of both selectivity and censorship (concepts that are separate, and yet one and the same).

One doesn't need to know of Germany and Pakistan. Fritzl hid a group of people in a basement for seven years as if they didn't exist, and he kept most/all of them alive through the most basic of means. If he can do that, Osama can be hidden in a house for five years as if he didn't exist, by idealistic individuals who have learnt how to control the outward expression of their inner monologues (radicals).
 
I said I wouldn't post again on this thread, but Pinger's post was worth replying to.

Mate nobody on this thread (apart from one or two kids) is debating that OBL is dead, though photos would be nice. Personally I believed he died/was killed years ago and was not at all surprised to see them release the information a few days ago, considering the upcoming elections, the Libya war, etc it was as good a time as any to distract the public and boost morale. Having said that it's highly laughable and more than a little saddening to see people in the USA and West congratulating themselves over it after having committed the numeric worth of about two-three dozen 9/11s over the past decade just to catch the guy. Al-Qaeda unfortunately is still operational, one largely superficial leader's death (everybody knows that Ayman Al-Zawahri is the group's most dangerous leader bar none, and even his death wouldn't make much difference until education and homegrown military strength can snuff out Al-Qaeda) makes very little difference, except perhaps giving some solace to those families who believe that OBL was the mastermind behind their problems when clearly it was not a one-man effort.

Oh and it's entirely possible for OBL to die and Al-Qaeda not to publicly mourn him, perform rituals (I think you're confusing them with shamanism or some other system with these obscure "rituals"). The mainstream media tends to give OBL far more importance than he actually had.

The elections are 18 months away. If this was about timing the grand slam would be much closer to them.

I equate the people who are saying his not dead to the same CT people who say Obama is not an american citizen. They have lost the ability to reason.

There is no way any American president would miss the opportunity to note OBL's death if it was confirmed. That is why I think he was killed recently. No way would the Republican party or Bush give the Democrats a free swing.

Even our media in Australia accept that OBL is more a grandfather figure and ther are other much more dangerous persons within it's structure now, however he is still the figurehead, for want of a better word of that attack.
 
Last edited:
I refuse to believe he survived for 10 years on dialysis (machine was not even found in the Abbottabad house, raising further questions). Unless of course he got a transplant in Tora Bora :altaf
 
I refuse to believe he survived for 10 years on dialysis (machine was not even found in the Abbottabad house, raising further questions). Unless of course he got a transplant in Tora Bora :altaf

The problem is like all things with Osama, it's all smoke, mirrors and ether!

It has never been any evidence he needed dialysis, that came from an observation that one person saw Osama drinking lots of water and green tea "to help with Kidenys" but that was later attributed to Kidney stones.
 
if this thread is anyway representative of the majority peoples view .. then it explains why the country is in such disarray. when there are more conspiracy theorists than realists, then county too will be in an endless loop of misinformation, misjudgement and destabilization. Because conspiracy theories can give people a momentary satisfaction but it will also make the country not face up to the reality and make the hard choices that it needs to make. At the end everything is a conspiracy and same disaster keeps repeating.
 
if this thread is anyway representative of the majority peoples view .. then it explains why the country is in such disarray. when there are more conspiracy theorists than realists, then county too will be in an endless loop of misinformation, misjudgement and destabilization. Because conspiracy theories can give people a momentary satisfaction but it will also make the country not face up to the reality and make the hard choices that it needs to make. At the end everything is a conspiracy and same disaster keeps repeating.

which country would that be?
 
While seeing the link you posted, I found this clip

Honestly, I never liked Mush, but he is talking a lot of sense here.

He is so true that "why are we expecting an ideal world here ? Just think what is good for Pakistan"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2DXtfE12_U&feature=related

Interesting interview and I am not really a fan of his but good advice from Musharraf. I hope the people of pakistan take note.
 
I see wut you did thur :yk

I don't think anybody (or the intelligent people in this thread) is disputing Osama's death, it's other factors surrounding the death/timing/etc which have come into question.
 
When the evidence is so strong and plentiful then there's really no point sitting at one's computer and pretending it doesn't exist.

Though this represents the painful white Western habit of relying on 'observable fact', that approach is still one of the saner choices available.
 
Point is, how many Osama bin Ladens are there? There's the one who gave the interview to Ummat magazine (google it) about 2/3 weeks after 9-11 where he flatly denied his involvement in 9-11, then there's the one with a different nose who admitted to it in a convenient video that happened to be floating around some random house in afghanistan....

We've seen so many different pictures of him. How many doubles have the US made of him. I'm sure they killed one of them, but which one? And does it matter?

Who knows what to believe in this deceitful age, but one things is for sure, the so-called "official version" of events never completely reflects reality
 
Point is, how many Osama bin Ladens are there? There's the one who gave the interview to Ummat magazine (google it) about 2/3 weeks after 9-11 where he flatly denied his involvement in 9-11, then there's the one with a different nose who admitted to it in a convenient video that happened to be floating around some random house in afghanistan....

We've seen so many different pictures of him. How many doubles have the US made of him. I'm sure they killed one of them, but which one? And does it matter?

Who knows what to believe in this deceitful age, but one things is for sure, the so-called "official version" of events never completely reflects reality

And like that---- POOF he is gone, Keyser Soze.
usual-suspects-spacey_l.jpg
 
And like that---- POOF he is gone, Keyser Soze.
usual-suspects-spacey_l.jpg

Yes - just like those crazy weapons of mass destruction that were going to destroy the world. Simply magic of the highest order.

Sorry I am not clever enough like you to attach a fancy image from google.
 
Yes - just like those crazy weapons of mass destruction that were going to destroy the world. Simply magic of the highest order.

Sorry I am not clever enough like you to attach a fancy image from google.

Waq, I have already implored you to google "Office of Special Plans" and if you cannot accept the fact that I am a fair minded, double degree educated Master at Law then I ask you to look at the links google provides and ask why on earth I would give them to you but to create robust debate.

The cowshit the US admin were trying to sell about a "45 min weaponisable threat to Europe"was precisely as I described, pure Codshit. Iraq could not hit neighbouring Kuwait with their crappy Scud misslies, so nothing post that era could be expected to hit accurately, let alone with any threat. Likewise the threat of a weaponised Iraq was so laughable most reasonable poeple in our countries were ashamed to hear our intelligence agencies spouting such tossle.

Such has been borne forth since, and the honest intellectuals amongst the countires that were participants in the invasions have since gained voice. It is only with your cooperation that we gain any credence.
 
Last edited:
Waq, I have already implored you to google "Office of Special Plans" and if you cannot accept the fact that I am a fair minded, double degree educated Master at Law then I ask you to look at the links google provides and ask why on earth I would give them to you but to create robust debate.

The cowshit the US admin were trying to sell about a "45 min weaponisable threat to Europe"was precisely as I described, pure Codshit. Iraq could not hit neighbouring Kuwait with their crappy Scud misslies, so nothing post that era could be expected to hit accurately, let alone with any threat. Likewise the threat of a weaponised Iraq was so laughable most reasonable poeple in our countries were ashamed to hear our intelligence agencies spouting such tossle.

Such has been borne forth since, and the honest intellectuals amongst the countires that were participants in the invasions have since gained voice. It is only with your cooperation that we gain any credence.

Thanks for your credentials Pinger, but common sense needs no qualifications.

What makes you say that USA has learnt from it's mistakes and the truth tellers have now found a voice? Any evidence or source.

As much as I commend you for acknowledging that the USA lied about Iraq, what makes you trust them now? Let's not beat around the bush, the Iraq lie was not a little lie, it was a huge unforgivable lie that led to the destruction of a county, death of thousands of innocent civilians and robbed a county of billions if not trillions. All for greed.

But you expect that this is somehow trivialised or forgotten about and we now believe the honest voice from USA and the CIA?

Like many others, I do not give a damn about Osama but I do give a damn about lies, injustice, robbery and above all, the killing of innocent people.

USA has a history of lies yet in the western world we are taught believe that they are the heroes in the fight between good and evil.
 
Thanks for your credentials Pinger, but common sense needs no qualifications.

What makes you say that USA has learnt from it's mistakes and the truth tellers have now found a voice? Any evidence or source.
None, but to assume otherwise is to bite into the conspiracy apple, and that apple is tainted.

As much as I commend you for acknowledging that the USA lied about Iraq, what makes you trust them now? Let's not beat around the bush, the Iraq lie was not a little lie, it was a huge unforgivable lie that led to the destruction of a county, death of thousands of innocent civilians and robbed a county of billions if not trillions. All for greed.

If you think the invasion of Iraq was for greed or spoils, again, nothing i can say will stop the rot from your brain. The US has gained nothing from the Iraq war other than the death of many of it's soldiers, and a bloody nosed reminder of why the Vietnam war was such a waste of time against a determined and motivated domestic enemy who does not care to wage war according to your 7,852 page manual on waging war in a post-modern-feminist-must-not-offend-the-gays-non-imperialist-non-conquer-rubber-bullet-non-colnoial-non-agressor-and please-jesus-don't-offend-the muslims- way.

The real reason for the Iraq war was for no other reason than to provide convenient cover to further establish a forward military base to support Israel.

But you expect that this is somehow trivialised or forgotten about and we now believe the honest voice from USA and the CIA?

Like many others, I do not give a damn about Osama but I do give a damn about lies, injustice, robbery and above all, the killing of innocent people.

USA has a history of lies yet in the western world we are taught believe that they are the heroes in the fight between good and evil.

If you believe the movies you watch, then you are as stupid as the jihadi's that think they have rivers of gold and 72 virgins waiting for them. I don't know what more to say to you.
 
Last edited:
some people just don't have any justification and yet they debate like undebatable...

they would try their best to divert the topic conveniently to something that suits them
 
some people just don't have any justification and yet they debate like undebatable...

they would try their best to divert the topic conveniently to something that suits them

You could seriously be a politician with your ability to say alot about nothing, with no particular point about anything.
 
None, but to assume otherwise is to bite into the conspiracy apple, and that apple is tainted.

If you think the invasion of Iraq was for greed or spoils, again, nothing i can say will stop the rot from your brain. The US has gained nothing from the Iraq war other than the death of many of it's soldiers, and a bloody nosed reminder of why the Vietnam war was such a waste of time against a determined and motivated domestic enemy who does not care to wage war according to your 7,852 page manual on waging war in a post-modern-feminist-must-not-offend-the-gays-non-imperialist-non-conquer-rubber-bullet-non-colnoial-non-agressor-and please-jesus-don't-offend-the muslims- way.

The real reason for the Iraq war was for no other reason than to provide convenient cover to further establish a forward military base to support Israel.

If you believe the movies you watch, then you are as stupid as the jihadi's that think they have rivers of gold and 72 virgins waiting for them. I don't know what more to say to you.

Pinger you usually respond with straight to the point posts ... I don't actually see any reasoning in the above post, fallaciously you've appealed to ridicule with the entire post above.
 
Pinger you usually respond with straight to the point posts ... I don't actually see any reasoning in the above post, fallaciously you've appealed to ridicule with the entire post above.

Provide me with the point I am supposed to have spoken to, and I will. i am too drunk currently to fathom what you are on about. Stoopid western infidel....

Tomorrow morning, when I am sober, nighlty night.
 
To what level have you studied the history of Germany in the 1930s? There is no way that the media in the post-9/11 climate can be compared to the will of the Third Reich. In terms of both selectivity and censorship (concepts that are separate, and yet one and the same).

Admittedly, my knowledge on German history is not Doctorate standard, more GCSE/Internet article level.

More importantly, what is your knowledge of 'Modern Media'? You'll better understand the context within which I speak if you understand how news is disseminated. You've mentioned selectivity and censorship to be the same. Well, keep together your thoughts on selectivity and our source of news. You'll come to realise how the ends of the aforementioned instances relate, with starkly contrasting means.

Read Media Control by Noam Chomsky. You can read it as "online news" or you can buy the book and read as "offline".

One doesn't need to know of Germany and Pakistan. Fritzl hid a group of people in a basement for seven years as if they didn't exist, and he kept most/all of them alive through the most basic of means. If he can do that, Osama can be hidden in a house for five years as if he didn't exist, by idealistic individuals who have learnt how to control the outward expression of their inner monologues (radicals).

Do you have any references?

You're comparing an Austrian citizen living in her father's house with her grandkids, in an Austrian town. Not exactly unusual, is it?

On the other hand, you have a wanted suspect living in a three-storey property, in a miltary garrison with his family, as ARABS! Moreso, if people in Pakistan feel a property to be unoccupied or derelict, it takes a few thousand pounds to buy the deeds.

Absurdity at its best.
 
When the evidence is so strong and plentiful then there's really no point sitting at one's computer and pretending it doesn't exist.

Though this represents the painful white Western habit of relying on 'observable fact', that approach is still one of the saner choices available.

That is entirely reciprocative.
 
When the evidence is so strong and plentiful then there's really no point sitting at one's computer and pretending it doesn't exist.

Though this represents the painful white Western habit of relying on 'observable fact', that approach is still one of the saner choices available.

There is no evidence that's the problem. All we have is the story America, not really a reputable nation.

Was Osama Bin Laden deaf?

According to the official jackanory they found him on the 3rd floor without a weapon and when confronted he reached for one? Was he deaf because this is the only explanation for why he didn't pick up a weapon before the seals got to him.
 
BREAKING NEWS - Osama Bin Laden Home Videos released

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-13323060

Osama Bin Laden: Pentagon releases home videos

The Pentagon has released home videos of Osama Bin Laden, seized at the secret compound in Pakistan where he was shot dead by US special forces last week.

The tapes show him watching himself on television, and preparing a video message addressed to the US.

At a news briefing in Washington, the Pentagon also released a propaganda video recorded by Bin Laden.

In total, five videos were seized during last week's US commando raid.
 
Ah,here is the content.

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/osama-bin-laden-home-videos-released-pentagon/story?id=13552384

In the video, which begins with animated pre-production work, he appears to have dyed his beard black, is wearing a gold shawl over a white vestment and is wearing a white skullcap.

The second video, which runs over a minute long, shows bin Laden watching himself on television and holding the remote control to change the channels between what appear to be Arabic news channels.

The clip begins with a long shot of the screen, showing a list of satellite channels. The camera then pulls out and bin Laden is shown sitting down with a blanket over his shoulders and a wool cap. His beard is grey and white.

At one point bin Laden asks the cameraman to go back to the TV screen so it can focus on him holding a weapons.

It is unclear when or where this video was made and whether bin Laden was watching a live broadcast or a tape.

The remaining three videos appear to be practice sessions, possibly for the first video. In each of them he appears to stumble in his speech, stop and begin over.
 
Chomsky's reaction...


We might ask ourselves how we would be reacting if Iraqi commandos landed at George W. Bush’s compound, assassinated him, and dumped his body in the Atlantic.
By Noam Chomsky
It’s increasingly clear that the operation was a planned assassination, multiply violating elementary norms of international law. There appears to have been no attempt to apprehend the unarmed victim, as presumably could have been done by 80 commandos facing virtually no opposition—except, they claim, from his wife, who lunged towards them. In societies that profess some respect for law, suspects are apprehended and brought to fair trial. I stress “suspects.” In April 2002, the head of the FBI, Robert Mueller, informed the press that after the most intensive investigation in history, the FBI could say no more than that it “believed” that the plot was hatched in Afghanistan, though implemented in the UAE and Germany. What they only believed in April 2002, they obviously didn’t know 8 months earlier, when Washington dismissed tentative offers by the Taliban (how serious, we do not know, because they were instantly dismissed) to extradite bin Laden if they were presented with evidence—which, as we soon learned, Washington didn’t have. Thus Obama was simply lying when he said, in his White House statement, that “we quickly learned that the 9/11 attacks were carried out by al Qaeda.”

Nothing serious has been provided since. There is much talk of bin Laden’s “confession,” but that is rather like my confession that I won the Boston Marathon. He boasted of what he regarded as a great achievement.

There is also much media discussion of Washington’s anger that Pakistan didn’t turn over bin Laden, though surely elements of the military and security forces were aware of his presence in Abbottabad. Less is said about Pakistani anger that the U.S. invaded their territory to carry out a political assassination. Anti-American fervor is already very high in Pakistan, and these events are likely to exacerbate it. The decision to dump the body at sea is already, predictably, provoking both anger and skepticism in much of the Muslim world.
It’s like naming our murder weapons after victims of our crimes: Apache, Tomahawk… It’s as if the Luftwaffe were to call its fighter planes “Jew” and “Gypsy.”

We might ask ourselves how we would be reacting if Iraqi commandos landed at George W. Bush’s compound, assassinated him, and dumped his body in the Atlantic. Uncontroversially, his crimes vastly exceed bin Laden’s, and he is not a “suspect” but uncontroversially the “decider” who gave the orders to commit the “supreme international crime differing only from other war crimes in that it contains within itself the accumulated evil of the whole” (quoting the Nuremberg Tribunal) for which Nazi criminals were hanged: the hundreds of thousands of deaths, millions of refugees, destruction of much of the country, the bitter sectarian conflict that has now spread to the rest of the region.

There’s more to say about [Cuban airline bomber Orlando] Bosch, who just died peacefully in Florida, including reference to the “Bush doctrine” that societies that harbor terrorists are as guilty as the terrorists themselves and should be treated accordingly. No one seemed to notice that Bush was calling for invasion and destruction of the U.S. and murder of its criminal president.

Same with the name, Operation Geronimo. The imperial mentality is so profound, throughout western society, that no one can perceive that they are glorifying bin Laden by identifying him with courageous resistance against genocidal invaders. It’s like naming our murder weapons after victims of our crimes: Apache, Tomahawk… It’s as if the Luftwaffe were to call its fighter planes “Jew” and “Gypsy.”
There is much more to say, but even the most obvious and elementary facts should provide us with a good deal to think about.
 
Is it a bit like the Four Lions Wajid scene?

no maii''nn....no Clear picture, only one boring remote control power shown by bin laden. :ahmed

I would like to see him watching Pakistan v india semi final, and then his reaction of Ian chappel dissing Afridi :yk
 
Why did he make these tapes? Was he planning on sending them to America's Funniest Home Videos?
 
Lol what an appalling video...no look at his face...all you know is its an old man with a beard...and lol at him getting filmed watching tv...very shady this...

:))) I have to admit,it is quite a decent 'living room',if you want to call it that compared to some places even here in Britain in the estates and council houses.

He is clothed fairly well.Decent TV set,computer and fax machine.

The 'seat' for the computer,if anyone can make it out,I cannot remember the Urdu term for it but I actually have one of those in my wardrobe :)) It is just a round sort of 'round cushion'.

This really is the definition of juxtaposition.

The surroundings really is the opposite,of what one would assume OBL would live in.

Plenty of technological,'Western' equipment.
 
Last edited:
Is this the only one they found because it doesn't make sense to release this rubbish if they have found many in the 'cache'.

Looks nothing like him. We need a full on face view.
 
Shaykh1985 -

Does it matter whether it was illegal or not? He was a bad bad man. He murdered so many innocent people at the push of a button. He created a terrorist network of over 300 men, who are all planning attacks as we speak. The 'whole' world wanted him dead.

He knew Saddam and his sons, Uday and Kusay. He probably knew Gaddafi. Heck, he might even have known the Syrian President. We need to take out his remaining chums! In fact, we need to take out everyone he ever knew, just to be on the safe side. He was such a powerful commander, sooo evil!

God Bless America!
 
He probably didn't have many followers in the weeks before his death (alleged).

People are talking about the factions in Al-Qaeda,and that even Ayman al-Zawahiri had a hand in collaborating with the intelligence in eliminating him.

OBL and Zawahiri do not seem to really fit in with the new generation of Jihadists,they were both considered dinosaurs and out-of-touch.

The camera angle is terrible though.Cannot get a glimpse of his face.Instead there is an awkward side angle.
 
Last edited:
Wow, the US government is really clutching at straws here, is this the best video they have?

Strangely, I haven't seen my neighbour for a few days, he also wears a skull cap and has a long beard. :yk
 
Back
Top