Overseas Pakistanis : When would you consider moving back to Pakistan?

[Bigboii]

In pakistan/the general country economy...

Never faced "racism" in US that's for sure maybe something un intentional from them that I later went back and thaught that it maybe racist

 

[Bigboii]

I think the area you live in also plays a big role too where I live its literally 90% brown people. in the summers theres kids playing cricket on the streets. Desi stores everywhere, Mosques nearby.

Maybe this never felt I needed "it" cause I was totally comfortable with the way things were i/e american culture/people
Recent phenomenan I guess maybe as you start growing up/matures these things become important to you and there's a period in one's life that he needs it and that "identity" issues start kicking in - simple and easy fix move in a desi place before doing something drastic - Keep it slow, experience lots of different and than make a good decision
-Thats the conclusion I am coming up with on this thread
Btw people are confusing small city with lack of desis in NY State you can find decently sized desi cammunities in every city...

 

[Bigboii]

I moved to Canada when i was around 7. The initial transition period was tough but once you get past that it's been so good. Most of my friends are Pakistani and we all can relate to each other also Canadians are a little more chill than the Americans imo so it's been pretty good. I don't think I could ever move back to Pakistan maybe to visit but there is no way I could survive over there.

Yeah, yeah it's easy to be chill living in igloos with healthcare provided... (just banter don't take it seriously lol)

 

[Prince of Pakistan]

Not practical.

I really would want to and I love it in Pakistan, but I don't see it happening.

Firstly you cannot leave your parents and secondly, what would you do there? Do you know or understand the culture of "sifarish" and "rishwat"? You cannot succeed in that system without these ingredients. Imran Khan or no Imran Khan these ingredients are still the recipe to success in Pakistan.

We, in the west, are not used to these concepts and it would hurt our pride to ask for someone's sifarish or go against our religious morals to bribe someone. In Pakistan these things are normal from A till Z. Even a kid doesn't mind lying to survive the day. It's a total different world in that regard. Unless you are from an elite group, ignoring all possible difficulties, you are in for a challenge.

Also in the west we aren't used to family interference and in Pakistan everyone wants a piece of you, especially if you are someone with money and speak fluent English. You will have to get used to that sort of chaos in life.

I know we all love Pakistan and follow Pakistan cricket with passion, but you got to ask yourself: are you ready for these challenges? I don't think so. Your parents made a decision and now we are who we are. Pakistan at the most will be a holiday destination for us in the future.

Even an Imran Khan can't change things in Pakistan overnight. So be realistic in your expectations and take every possible factor into consideration.

 

[Prince of Pakistan]

They won’t come back. It is easy to show patriotism and loyalty over the Internet when you are living in a foreign country and have the safety blanket of a foreign passport.

Quaid-e-Azam freed Pakistanis from the Queen but the same Pakistanis went to England and sang God Save the Queen to get UK passports.

It's not practical either. If someone decides to take this step he is either a risk taker or very ignorant.

People like us living outside will get ripped in minutes. Without the recipe of "sifarish" and "rishwat" there is no way you can succeed in Pakistan. Instead of improving things only have gotten worse in the last few years.

The only thing people will achieve by this venture is more disappointment in life and losing their ideal holiday destination.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

Also I think this question is very different to different people.

For someone like me who went abroad as a student when I was already 18; it is very different proposition for me compared to someone who moved when they were 8 or 9 and their whole family moved together. For the latter I see no real reason why they would want to move back to pakistan. For them home is USA, Canada or UK or wherever they are because that’s where they grew up and matured. So that aspect is very important too.

One thing I’ve noticed is that it’s the people who move West when they’re already in their late 20s and 30s who are the most hell bent on ensuring that they never have to move back and it’s never a consideration for them.

Thats the thing we left Pakistan early in our life, so we did not have alot of the negative experiences. And at the same time we left at an old enough age that we can speak close to fluent Urdu, and that Pakistan does not seem really foreign to us.

 

[Mamoon]

I think many overseas Pakistanis have done good things for Pakistan in contrast to many local Pakistanis who have turned the country into a “Chorron ka adda”.


Overseas Pakistanis sent $23 Billion to Pakistan in 2020. So no, and sorry to burst your bubble, but the patriotism by overseas Pakistanis is not just hot air from the mouth.

There is no bubble to burst. They don’t send this money to benefit the economy; they send it to help their families. Whatever benefit it brings to the economy is a byproduct and not the intention/reason for the exercise in the first place.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

Not practical.

I really would want to and I love it in Pakistan, but I don't see it happening.

Firstly you cannot leave your parents and secondly, what would you do there? Do you know or understand the culture of "sifarish" and "rishwat"? You cannot succeed in that system without these ingredients. Imran Khan or no Imran Khan these ingredients are still the recipe to success in Pakistan.

We, in the west, are not used to these concepts and it would hurt our pride to ask for someone's sifarish or go against our religious morals to bribe someone. In Pakistan these things are normal from A till Z. Even a kid doesn't mind lying to survive the day. It's a total different world in that regard. Unless you are from an elite group, ignoring all possible difficulties, you are in for a challenge.

Also in the west we aren't used to family interference and in Pakistan everyone wants a piece of you, especially if you are someone with money and speak fluent English. You will have to get used to that sort of chaos in life.

I know we all love Pakistan and follow Pakistan cricket with passion, but you got to ask yourself: are you ready for these challenges? I don't think so. Your parents made a decision and now we are who we are. Pakistan at the most will be a holiday destination for us in the future.

Even an Imran Khan can't change things in Pakistan overnight. So be realistic in your expectations and take every possible factor into consideration.

The parents made the decision for family for better economic opportunities. However if money is no longer an issue, is it really that bad to live in some posh area of Pakistan? Especially for people like doctors, who can easily get a job in Pakistan, and usually have a decent amount of money saved.

 

[Mamoon]

Speaking of overseas Pakistanis, what happened to this American doctor?

He stood proudly in his scrub, claiming that he is returning to Pakistan to serve the country now that Imran Khan is PM. However, we haven’t heard from him since.

It is said that his wife and kids knocked him back into his senses and he has tried to take this video off the Internet but it hasn’t worked.

 

[Bewal Express]

There is no bubble to burst. They don’t send this money to benefit the economy; they send it to help their families. Whatever benefit it brings to the economy is a byproduct and not the intention/reason for the exercise in the first place.

I know you knowledge of most things is on par with my GCSE students but even you arent so stupid as not to realise the consequences without overseas PKs money, PK Rp would around 280 to a dollar. Would you be happy with that? Lol

 

[IMMY69]

I'm not married to a Pakistani and both my kids (now adults) don't see themselves as Pakistani so will be difficult for me to move permanently to Pakistan.

 

[Mamoon]

I know you knowledge of most things is on par with my GCSE students but even you arent so stupid as not to realise the consequences without overseas PKs money, PK Rp would around 280 to a dollar. Would you be happy with that? Lol

If you are teaching at GCSE level then I have to question the standard of English schooling. I did my O-Levels 14 years back in Pakistan and we had more qualified teachers.

The impact of the remittance of overseas Pakistanis does not change the fact that they are not sending money to boost the forex reserves; they are sending the money to help their families.

They are not doing any favors on the country. This is just a coping mechanism used by overseas Pakistanis to show their importance. It is a tactic used to negate the guilt that they feel for leaving the country and not coming back even when they have financial means to do so.

When Imran became the PM, I was expecting overseas Pakistanis to make a beeline and come back to Pakistan now that we have an “honest leader” and the Naya Pakistan dream will be achieved.

However, these overseas Pakistanis have once again proved to be all talk and no show. They don’t have enough faith in their leader to leave their safety blanket in the west and come back.

 

[Colorblind Genius]

There is no bubble to burst. They don’t send this money to benefit the economy; they send it to help their families. Whatever benefit it brings to the economy is a byproduct and not the intention/reason for the exercise in the first place.

Yes there is truth to it; however, not every overseas Pakistani remit funds to Pakistan for their family, especially from USA.

There is huge chunk that donates and supports various charities in Pakistan and then thousands of families send their zakaat money to Pakistan.
If they didn’t have patriotism, they wouldn’t give a flying flock about Pakistan.

Many at times, overseas Pakistanis have indicated that at least they don’t hurt Pakistan if they can’t bring any benefit to it.

 

[Mamoon]

I'm not married to a Pakistani and both my kids (now adults) don't see themselves as Pakistani so will be difficult for me to move permanently to Pakistan.

This is your contribution to Pakistan. Your future generations will not even consider themselves Pakistani. Do you feel any guilt?

Considering how much you advertise your patriotism on this forum and provide armchair support to Imran Khan, I am sure you don’t feel great about it.

 

[IMMY69]

This is your contribution to Pakistan. Your future generations will not even consider themselves Pakistani. Do you feel any guilt?

Considering how much you advertise your patriotism on this forum and provide armchair support to Imran Khan, I am sure you don’t feel great about it.

They don't. They consider themselves half Pakistani but England is their home.
What would you like me to do? Force them to call themselves Pakistani over my wife's' heritage?
I can't do that and nor would I ever consider doing that.

I still do plenty for the country of my birth, just that I can't be there permanently.

 

[Prince of Pakistan]

The parents made the decision for family for better economic opportunities. However if money is no longer an issue, is it really that bad to live in some posh area of Pakistan? Especially for people like doctors, who can easily get a job in Pakistan, and usually have a decent amount of money saved.

Unless you are connected to a powerful politician or bureaucrat you will always face the challenges I mentioned in one way or another.

You want things done you will have to interact with the common people who will not move an inch if you do not give them their commission for "chai paani". It is so common in the society that you will look like an alien not giving them extra's to get things done fast.

With you being a "baahirwala" the rate will be even higher. I always have to go with my cousins or other connections to get things done normal, otherwise you will be ripped off.

If you can live with this then that is your choice of course, otherwise think twice.

Do not get me wrong by the way as I love the food, the weather and the extras in the country which you miss living outside, but these are harsh realities.

In order to decide you got to weigh everything about a society. That's the only thing I am saying

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

View attachment 106854

Speaking of overseas Pakistanis, what happened to this American doctor?

He stood proudly in his scrub, claiming that he is returning to Pakistan to serve the country now that Imran Khan is PM. However, we haven’t heard from him since.

It is said that his wife and kids knocked him back into his senses and he has tried to take this video off the Internet but it hasn’t worked.

How did you hear that? He deleted his twitter account as far as i can tell.

https://twitter.com/malikimranmd?lang=en

Maybe for privacy, and not trying to get the video off.



I think this is him.

https://providers.osfhealthcare.org...&unified=malik&filter=languages.language:Urdu

He seems to be still in the US.

However maybe he went back to Pakistan part time? I know doctors personally who are working both in Pakistan and US. And doctors who have returned from US to Pakistan on a permanent basis.

 

[Slog]

Unless you are connected to a powerful politician or bureaucrat you will always face the challenges I mentioned in one way or another.

You want things done you will have to interact with the common people who will not move an inch if you do not give them their commission for "chai paani". It is so common in the society that you will look like an alien not giving them extra's to get things done fast.

With you being a "baahirwala" the rate will be even higher. I always have to go with my cousins or other connections to get things done normal, otherwise you will be ripped off.

If you can live with this then that is your choice of course, otherwise think twice.

Do not get me wrong by the way as I love the food, the weather and the extras in the country which you miss living outside, but these are harsh realities.

In order to decide you got to weigh everything about a society. That's the only thing I am saying

You are living in some alternate world and are simply making excuses it seems and then hiding behind them by magnifying their prevalence. Yes ‘rishwat’ etc happens but you can live without it too and do just fine. Just need to be smart and cognizant. Heck ‘rishwat’ equivalents can even happen in the west if you think aboht it.

Many people live abroad and then move back so it’s not some once in a million kind of thing.

If you’re getting ripped off that easily then it probably isn’t a pakistan thing and more of a “you” thing. You’re probably getting ripped off elsewhere too and what’s worse is that you’re probably not realizing that it’s happening.

 

[Slog]

How did you hear that? He deleted his twitter account as far as i can tell.

https://twitter.com/malikimranmd?lang=en

Maybe for privacy, and not trying to get the video off.



I think this is him.

https://providers.osfhealthcare.org...&unified=malik&filter=languages.language:Urdu

He seems to be still in the US.

However maybe he went back to Pakistan part time? I know doctors personally who are working both in Pakistan and US. And doctors who have returned from US to Pakistan on a permanent basis.

You’re right about doctors returning to Pakistan.

But this guy ended up staying back and said it’s due to family etc. remember he posted on twitter I think. And people kept bugging and trolling so then deactivated account.

I’ve noticed people who do such topi dramas and boast a lot usually don’t end up doing these things when the opportunity comes. Very phattu type personality.

It’s the practical decision not to move back but then do a drama to show your love and patriotism lol. Because then it’s only fair to be called out for your hot air later

 

[Bewal Express]

If you are teaching at GCSE level then I have to question the standard of English schooling. I did my O-Levels 14 years back in Pakistan and we had more qualified teachers.

The impact of the remittance of overseas Pakistanis does not change the fact that they are not sending money to boost the forex reserves; they are sending the money to help their families.

They are not doing any favors on the country. This is just a coping mechanism used by overseas Pakistanis to show their importance. It is a tactic used to negate the guilt that they feel for leaving the country and not coming back even when they have financial means to do so.

When Imran became the PM, I was expecting overseas Pakistanis to make a beeline and come back to Pakistan now that we have an “honest leader” and the Naya Pakistan dream will be achieved.

However, these overseas Pakistanis have once again proved to be all talk and no show. They don’t have enough faith in their leader to leave their safety blanket in the west and come back.

It's a shame your more qualified teachers couldn't teach morals, history, economics and anything else you care to mention. It's obvious that their great talents were wasted on a simple guy like you.
Nothing illustates my first paragraph better than your 2nd paragraph. Economics is not about intentions and niyaat, it's about impacts. If the $24bn isn't sent, thr PK rp would be heading southwards quicker than the PDM. The impact on inflation caused by the free floatation by IK would seem negligible compared to what would happen if these remittances weren't sent. But your ignorance is bliss which means that you have no idea what I have written.Remember those days when you found the discussion on CAD funny. We haven't.
If we are not doing any favours then create your own wealth, setup businesses that the World wants. Instead you spend your day hiding from work on a Internet forum.
Overseas PK are giving more to PK than losers like you ever will. We have never taken any thing from PK, and still we send billions back. Those billions are used to fund imports that keep the country afloat. We talk with our wallets, now get off the Internet forum, setup a business and start exporting and then goad us. Thought not.

 

[Prince of Pakistan]

You are living in some alternate world and are simply making excuses it seems and then hiding behind them by magnifying their prevalence. Yes ‘rishwat’ etc happens but you can live without it too and do just fine. Just need to be smart and cognizant. Heck ‘rishwat’ equivalents can even happen in the west if you think aboht it.

Many people live abroad and then move back so it’s not some once in a million kind of thing.

If you’re getting ripped off that easily then it probably isn’t a pakistan thing and more of a “you” thing. You’re probably getting ripped off elsewhere too and what’s worse is that you’re probably not realizing that it’s happening.

I don't know which part of the West you have been. But among the common you won't see people asking for a bribe to get small things done in the municipal office. In Pakistan most stuff starts with "chani paani". Obviously its not every man but this is culture and some don't even find it weird.

In Punjab its even famous and people ask you: jaaldi kam karwana ya sar khapanay ka mood?

Like I said earlier its from experiences of people. You can ask anyone here who have had to sell their house or land. Even when you go to a mall the rate changes when they see a foreigner.

You can ignore the negatives of a society. But what will you achieve by underplaying everything?

 

[Slog]

I don't know which part of the West you have been. But among the common you won't see people asking for a bribe to get small things done in the municipal office. In Pakistan most stuff starts with "chani paani". Obviously its not every man but this is culture and some don't even find it weird.

In Punjab its even famous and people ask you: jaaldi kam karwana ya sar khapanay ka mood?

Like I said earlier its from experiences of people. You can ask anyone here who have had to sell their house or land. Even when you go to a mall the rate changes when they see a foreigner.

You can ignore the negatives of a society. But what will you achieve by underplaying everything?

What will you achieve by making excuses?

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

You’re right about doctors returning to Pakistan.

But this guy ended up staying back and said it’s due to family etc. remember he posted on twitter I think. And people kept bugging and trolling so then deactivated account.

I’ve noticed people who do such topi dramas and boast a lot usually don’t end up doing these things when the opportunity comes. Very phattu type personality.

It’s the practical decision not to move back but then do a drama to show your love and patriotism lol. Because then it’s only fair to be called out for your hot air later

Ok, then he deserved to be trolled.

 

[Colorblind Genius]

I know you knowledge of most things is on par with my GCSE students but even you arent so stupid as not to realise the consequences without overseas PKs money, PK Rp would around 280 to a dollar. Would you be happy with that? Lol

Looks like when he thinks of “Overseas Pakistanis”, he imagines Altaf Hussain and Nawaz Shareef.
Well, yeah technically they ARE overseas Pakistanis. lol

 

[Prince of Pakistan]

What will you achieve by making excuses?

Nothing. As I love it there. But obviously most foreigners got more things to consider before making such a big decision which effects their families. The reason I mentioned those things.

I actually miss Pakistan a lot and hope to be visiting soon when this corona lockdown is lifted here in the Netherlands.

 

[Slog]

It's a shame your more qualified teachers couldn't teach morals, history, economics and anything else you care to mention. It's obvious that their great talents were wasted on a simple guy like you.
Nothing illustates my first paragraph better than your 2nd paragraph. Economics is not about intentions and niyaat, it's about impacts. If the $24bn isn't sent, thr PK rp would be heading southwards quicker than the PDM. The impact on inflation caused by the free floatation by IK would seem negligible compared to what would happen if these remittances weren't sent. But your ignorance is bliss which means that you have no idea what I have written.Remember those days when you found the discussion on CAD funny. We haven't.
If we are not doing any favours then create your own wealth, setup businesses that the World wants. Instead you spend your day hiding from work on a Internet forum.
Overseas PK are giving more to PK than losers like you ever will. We have never taken any thing from PK, and still we send billions back. Those billions are used to fund imports that keep the country afloat. We talk with our wallets, now get off the Internet forum, setup a business and start exporting and then goad us. Thought not.

Someone’s getting personal and a bit triggered unfortunately.

Most of the remittances are coming from Pakistani citizens in the Middle East not the West.

In many cases these remittances have led to a dependency syndrome in the families who get these because all they do is just wait for it rather than do any thing productive. May be it would have been better in the long term if they were forced to get off their behinds and actually do something for a living.

Finally he is right. The intention while sending money is not to boost the forex reserves of pakistan or help the economy. It’s a very simple aim to help dependent family members. So you can’t jump around and put haars around your neck for something that wasnt your intention.

If overseas Pakistanis were investing in businesses or setting them up and then employing Pakistanis then I would say it’s actually a genuine great deed with legitimate long term positive impact.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Most of overseas patriotic Pakistanis will move back to Pakistan when it becomes perfect.

 

[Slog]

Most of overseas patriotic Pakistanis will move back to Pakistan when it becomes perfect.

What is “perfect”?

And then they aren’t moving back to pakistan lol. They are moving back due to economic and monetary reasons again.

Btw I all say this as an overseas Pakistani myself. Just don’t have this undeserved savior syndrome.

 

[Bigboii]

Someone’s getting personal and a bit triggered unfortunately.

Most of the remittances are coming from Pakistani citizens in the Middle East not the West.

In many cases these remittances have led to a dependency syndrome in the families who get these because all they do is just wait for it rather than do any thing productive. May be it would have been better in the long term if they were forced to get off their behinds and actually do something for a living.

Finally he is right. The intention while sending money is not to boost the forex reserves of pakistan or help the economy. It’s a very simple aim to help dependent family members. So you can’t jump around and put haars around your neck for something that wasnt your intention.

If overseas Pakistanis were investing in businesses or setting them up and then employing Pakistanis then I would say it’s actually a genuine great deed with legitimate long term positive impact.

This, every month some relative you didn't even know existed gets the number and starts hounding for money

 

[Slog]

This, every month some relative you didn't even know existed gets the number and starts hounding for money

In my family that was never the case so I never knew it was such a big thing.

However I met this taxi driver in nyc once who was paying for his mother and brother’s family back in some town in Punjab. I asked them what brother does in Pakistan and he’s like take care of mother *. And this guy kept sending money every month. Dude was a taxi driver so hardly earning in the top strata himself..

 

[Bigboii]

Most of overseas patriotic Pakistanis will move back to Pakistan when it becomes perfect.

Pak will never be a first world country, it just wasn't setup that way politically, no crazy resources, or unlike asians they don't have the work ethic to get rich without resources/good political system
Indonesia level is the best thing one can hope for

Decision to go back have to be different than monetary cause it won't be w first world country ever

 

[Prince of Pakistan]

Most of overseas patriotic Pakistanis will move back to Pakistan when it becomes perfect.

Don't see that happening. Many of them have moved on and would struggle to live in a different society.

 

[Bigboii]

]In my family that was never the case so I never knew it was such a big thing[/B].

However I met this taxi driver in nyc once who was paying for his mother and brother’s family back in some town in Punjab. I asked them what brother does in Pakistan and he’s like take care of mother ��*. And this guy kept sending money every month. Dude was a taxi driver so hardly earning in the top strata himself..

You/your family are probably rich most international students are (cause you can't pay tuitions without that)
But my immediate family are good people and live a good life
But it's the phupho ka phupho larka who have fallen on hard times and the sweet people my parents are end up giving up the money not only that they ask me to donate from my student budget

 

[Slog]

You/your family are probably rich most international students are (cause you can't pay tuitions without that)
But my immediate family are good people and live a good life
But it's the phupho ka phupho larka who have fallen on hard times and the sweet people my parents are end up giving up the money not only that they ask me to donate from my student budget

Yes that is ridiculous. Like if cousins come into the picture then the list will be never ending

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

You/your family are probably rich most international students are (cause you can't pay tuitions without that)
But my immediate family are good people and live a good life
But it's the phupho ka phupho larka who have fallen on hard times and the sweet people my parents are end up giving up the money not only that they ask me to donate from my student budget

I have had the same experience. Most people in my family in Pakistan have a good life, however there are some that are struggling. And family chips in. I dont mind when im asked to do so. And i think this is a good thing of Pak society to help relatives.

The only time i mind chipping in is when a rich relative maid/driver/chaukidar is struggling, and they shamelessly ask their relatives to pitch in, when they are loaded. Like if you have a 10, 15 crore house in Pakistan, your children study abroad, you have the latest everything, surely you can help your "help" by yourself.

 

[Bewal Express]

Someone’s getting personal and a bit triggered unfortunately.

Most of the remittances are coming from Pakistani citizens in the Middle East not the West.

In many cases these remittances have led to a dependency syndrome in the families who get these because all they do is just wait for it rather than do any thing productive. May be it would have been better in the long term if they were forced to get off their behinds and actually do something for a living.

Finally he is right. The intention while sending money is not to boost the forex reserves of pakistan or help the economy. It’s a very simple aim to help dependent family members. So you can’t jump around and put haars around your neck for something that wasnt your intention.

If overseas Pakistanis were investing in businesses or setting them up and then employing Pakistanis then I would say it’s actually a genuine great deed with legitimate long term positive impact.

Remittances have positive and negative impacts but the one thing that can't be denied is that without them the Rps would be at a level much much lower and inflation that is bad atm would be seen as the good old days.
As i explained to our friend, economics is not about intention it's about impact and you have pointed out some of the negatives but maybe you can tell me how imports of 60bn can be afforded with exports of 23bn.
As far as investing in Businesses, I totally agree, and I know of some who have but you also know the business environment and particularly law and contracts. My cousin has gone to PK, his house in Islamabad has been occupied by people and no rent has been paid, the court case. hasn't started as the Judge has missed 3 hearings.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

Unless you are connected to a powerful politician or bureaucrat you will always face the challenges I mentioned in one way or another.

You want things done you will have to interact with the common people who will not move an inch if you do not give them their commission for "chai paani". It is so common in the society that you will look like an alien not giving them extra's to get things done fast.

With you being a "baahirwala" the rate will be even higher. I always have to go with my cousins or other connections to get things done normal, otherwise you will be ripped off.

If you can live with this then that is your choice of course, otherwise think twice.

Do not get me wrong by the way as I love the food, the weather and the extras in the country which you miss living outside, but these are harsh realities.

In order to decide you got to weigh everything about a society. That's the only thing I am saying

This is true.

However the point i was trying to make was that once you have enough money and you can live in an upper middle class or even an elite lifestyle, it might be better than living in a middle class lifestyle in the west.

Like if you live in the posh areas, your children can attend elite schools, you have access to good medical facilities, then whats wrong with that type of life.

Alot of westerners retie abroad to places with cheaper cost of living. Places like Latin America, and South East Asia, where they dont understand the culture at all.

If white people can move to Costa Rica, or Malaysia , then Pakistanis can move back to Pakistan, as long as they can afford to live in a good place.

 

[Prince of Pakistan]

This is true.

However the point i was trying to make was that once you have enough money and you can live in an upper middle class or even an elite lifestyle, it might be better than living in a middle class lifestyle in the west.

Like if you live in the posh areas, your children can attend elite schools, you have access to good medical facilities, then whats wrong with that type of life.

Alot of westerners retie abroad to places with cheaper cost of living. Places like Latin America, and South East Asia, where they dont understand the culture at all.

If white people can move to Costa Rica, or Malaysia , then Pakistanis can move back to Pakistan, as long as they can afford to live in a good place.

Yes, that is true. In Pakistan if you have the money like serious money then you live like a King. But then again you will need the connections as well to make it sustainable in that system.

But yes, you make a good point there.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

Remittances have positive and negative impacts but the one thing that can't be denied is that without them the Rps would be at a level much much lower and inflation that is bad atm would be seen as the good old days.
As i explained to our friend, economics is not about intention it's about impact and you have pointed out some of the negatives but maybe you can tell me how imports of 60bn can be afforded with exports of 23bn.
As far as investing in Businesses, I totally agree, and I know of some who have but you also know the business environment and particularly law and contracts. My cousin has gone to PK, his house in Islamabad has been occupied by people and no rent has been paid, the court case. hasn't started as the Judge has missed 3 hearings.

This happens alot to overseas people. My own family had our zameen stolen. Someone built a house there, and then we filed a court case, where we learned they also had an "original" document for the zameen.

My family tried fighting it in court, but there were too many delays, and they just gave up, as they figured the cost to get it back would not even be worth the money they would get from it.

Hopefully your cousin can get the squatters out soon.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

As far as remittances goes, yes overseas Pakistanis dont send them out of any patriotic reasons. They are not to help Pakistan, but to help their families.

However the Pakistanis living in Pakistan also dont contribute to Pakistan out of patriotic reasons. They are also doing it for their families.

The overwhelming majority of Pakistanis in living in Pakistan are not doing a meherbani to the country by living there. You have no choice.

 

[CricketCartoons]

My family tried fighting it in court, but there were too many delays, and they just gave up, as they figured the cost to get it back would not even be worth the money they would get from it.

Sad to see people give up on doing what is right because there is a cost involved, which only encourages the frauds.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

Sad to see people give up on doing what is right because there is a cost involved, which only encourages the frauds.

They tried for years. At some point you have to acknowledge you lost.

The land mafia in Pakistan is very strong, which is why its best to buy zameen in DHA, if you live overseas. No one is stealing zameen from there.

 

[Slog]

Remittances have positive and negative impacts but the one thing that can't be denied is that without them the Rps would be at a level much much lower and inflation that is bad atm would be seen as the good old days.
As i explained to our friend, economics is not about intention it's about impact and you have pointed out some of the negatives but maybe you can tell me how imports of 60bn can be afforded with exports of 23bn.
As far as investing in Businesses, I totally agree, and I know of some who have but you also know the business environment and particularly law and contracts. My cousin has gone to PK, his house in Islamabad has been occupied by people and no rent has been paid, the court case. hasn't started as the Judge has missed 3 hearings.

There would just be less imports if less remittances I guess. Usually these thing s are not binary though.

Care to explain how remittances are contributing to decreased inflation? If anything isn’t increased money supply (money parachuted from abroad) contributing to inflation with more money chasing same number of goods?

 

[Saj]

A friend of ours based in America had his bank accounts in Pakistan 'taken over' by a 3rd party.

This basically meant that he couldn't access money that was his own.

When he contacted the bank, he was put through to about 5 different managers all who were useless.

Eventually he had to go to Pakistan and try to sort the issue out which wasn't easy.

To this day he has only received 10% of his own money and is still trying to get access to the other 90%.

He was actually thinking of moving back to Pakistan, but there is no way he will do that now.

 

[Colorblind Genius]

Those talking about relatives scheming them out of cash and getting ripped off.

Yes, one should use caution and common sense; however, remember it's still our country and many are grounded in extreme inflation. People are suffering and living an absolute miserable life. The hardships are heart wrenching.
Yes, there is corruption, yes there are tons of haram khores, and yes, the country has it's growing pains; however, try to not let anyone returned empty handed when someone asks for help.

There are forces and intelligence above us, and we have a guidance from our faith. So stay generous. God has given it to you, you should also give back within your means.

During my last trip to Pakistan, I purposely bought stuff from elderly and weak men that should've been retired long ago but were forced to work due to economic squeeze. I knew that they may have left some room for bargaining but I paid whatever the initial asking price was. It was a way of helping them.

If you have zakat and kheirat money, don't be shy in using it to help relatives and poor folks in Pakistan.

I have 1000% belief that giving in charity NEVER decreases your wealth. It ALWAYS ends up benefiting you financially and spiritually.

If someone has schemed you after you have used caution or not, then your money is still not going anywhere. In end, there will be an accountability and you will come out as the winner.

 

[Saj]

Here's another example, one of many I could write here.

Another friend's family had property in Pakistan which was their father's that he had rented out.

After his death, his sons decided to sell the house. That proved to be tricky as the tenants wouldn't leave the property, made threats and also the local thugs were using the property as their base.

The local police weren't interested as they were in with the local thugs and in the end my friend had to take a few people from the UK over to Pakistan and 'sort out' the thugs and the tenants.

The animals who had taken over the property then had to be kicked out of the property like the animals they were.

 

[Bewal Express]

There would just be less imports if less remittances I guess. Usually these thing s are not binary though.

Care to explain how remittances are contributing to decreased inflation? If anything isn’t increased money supply (money parachuted from abroad) contributing to inflation with more money chasing same number of goods?

Yes and no. If you take out 3 trillion rps out of the economy no doubt it would but the single biggest import is fuel and they wouldn't be touched unless you intend to go back to donkey and carts. The short term GDP would drop by around 10% and the consequent effect on the multiplier would lead to even bigger drops.
The value of your currency is dependent the demand for it, and if you are importing more than exporting than the supply of your currency is greater than its demand, hence the depreciation.
The exchange rate and Inflation are closely linked for economies that are dependent on imports. For example if the Rps drops to say 250 to a dollar which isn't an exaggeration, what used to cost 160rps would go up to 250.

 

[Bewal Express]

Here's another example, one of many I could write here.

Another friend's family had property in Pakistan which was their father's that he had rented out.

After his death, his sons decided to sell the house. That proved to be tricky as the tenants wouldn't leave the property, made threats and also the local thugs were using the property as their base.

The local police weren't interested as they were in with the local thugs and in the end my friend had to take a few people from the UK over to Pakistan and 'sort out' the thugs and the tenants.

The animals who had taken over the property then had to be kicked out of the property like the animals they were.

We have a Tennant in Islamabad( in a property my dad built in the 70s) and he is some big Wig, we have asked him to leave and he is saying no. A long costly court battle awaits

 

[Colorblind Genius]

Here's another example, one of many I could write here.

Another friend's family had property in Pakistan which was their father's that he had rented out.

After his death, his sons decided to sell the house. That proved to be tricky as the tenants wouldn't leave the property, made threats and also the local thugs were using the property as their base.

The local police weren't interested as they were in with the local thugs and in the end my friend had to take a few people from the UK over to Pakistan and 'sort out' the thugs and the tenants.

The animals who had taken over the property then had to be kicked out of the property like the animals they were.

Yep, 100's of such examples.
We had let our gardner and chowkidar to live in our house with their families.
This was a way to help them and also not to keep the house vacant so that no "Qabza group" or tenant could create trouble for us.

5 years later we went to Pakistan and my father tried to transfer my share to my wife's name as per the nikkah terms.

We went to court to get the paperwork done, only to find out that our next door neighbor had the entire house transferred to his name. It were the times of Patwaries back in 2001 so he had "the original docs" and all lol.
We had to turn a couple of screws to bring back our neighbor on his place.

It's indeed very hard for overseas Pakistanis who have now settled abroad to move back Pakistan; however, this does not automatically mean that we are now "unpatriotic", and the only way to prove our patriotism, is to move back to Pakistan. This is the kind of vibe I am getting from some posts here, which is frankly ridiculous.

 

[Bewal Express]

This happens alot to overseas people. My own family had our zameen stolen. Someone built a house there, and then we filed a court case, where we learned they also had an "original" document for the zameen.

My family tried fighting it in court, but there were too many delays, and they just gave up, as they figured the cost to get it back would not even be worth the money they would get from it.

Hopefully your cousin can get the squatters out soon.

This is a familiar story for too many people.

 

[Slog]

Yes and no. If you take out 3 trillion rps out of the economy no doubt it would but the single biggest import is fuel and they wouldn't be touched unless you intend to go back to donkey and carts. The short term GDP would drop by around 10% and the consequent effect on the multiplier would lead to even bigger drops.
The value of your currency is dependent the demand for it, and if you are importing more than exporting than the supply of your currency is greater than its demand, hence the depreciation.
The exchange rate and Inflation are closely linked for economies that are dependent on imports. For example if the Rps drops to say 250 to a dollar which isn't an exaggeration, what used to cost 160rps would go up to 250.

I don’t think that makes a lot of economic sense from a theory perspective and I’m saying this as someone with a background in the subject. Was just curious to know your logic.

When the currency will depreciate; imports will automatically go down especially of the needless luxury goods which we import way too much of. And assuming exports remain at similar level; then more of that will be used for importing fuel. About 25-30% of Pakistan’s imports are fuel and unless crude goes back up to >$70 it should be a manageable.

If anything it is the artificially inflated currency of USDKR of 105 during most of PML-N’s era which hurt us quite a bit as our exports become less competitive every year and contracts moved to Bangladesh etc instead.

Obv in the short term a forex injection through remittances is net positive but I don’t think it is managed that well in our country. Besides, Any developing country has remittances as an important part of their calculations so pakistan is hardly unique in that aspect. To claim pakistan would somehow disintegrate if let’s say remittances are cut by 30% is a very ridiculous assertion not based on any fact or logic.

 

[Bewal Express]

I don’t think that makes a lot of economic sense from a theory perspective and I’m saying this as someone with a background in the subject. Was just curious to know your logic.

When the currency will depreciate; imports will automatically go down especially of the needless luxury goods which we import way too much of. And assuming exports remain at similar level; then more of that will be used for importing fuel. About 25-30% of Pakistan’s imports are fuel and unless crude goes back up to >$70 it should be a manageable.

If anything it is the artificially inflated currency of USDKR of 105 during most of PML-N’s era which hurt us quite a bit as our exports become less competitive every year and contracts moved to Bangladesh etc instead.

Obv in the short term a forex injection through remittances is net positive but I don’t think it is managed that well in our country. Besides, Any developing country has remittances as an important part of their calculations so pakistan is hardly unique in that aspect. To claim pakistan would somehow disintegrate if let’s say remittances are cut by 30% is a very ridiculous assertion not based on any fact or logic.

Imports will decrease if demand is price elastic but as you have said fuel isn't elastic and most of the goods, which we assume are elastic aren't elastic becauseof chnages in lifestyle. For example phones aren't are luxury anymore, they are necessity. So all you do is still import but the price is increased. The answer off course is import substitution but that takes entrepreneurs willing to take risks and having the knowledge to make the goods to a good standard.
Are you saying that that if remittances drop, it won't lead to a massive reduction in the GDP? What's that based on? You don't have to know be an economist to realise that taking out trillions will have a massive impact on economic activity. The injection of these trillions has nearly the same impact as money generated by exports on economic activity.

 

[JimmyGetsBuckets]

Yeah, yeah it's easy to be chill living in igloos with healthcare provided... (just banter don't take it seriously lol)

hahaha classic joke but forreal most Americans have no idea climate wise unless you go way north the weather is similar to NYC, Chicago, Minneapolis, Detroit.

 

[Mamoon]

It is important to understand that being an overseas Pakistani is not a problem at all. The problem is when certain overseas Pakistanis try to overcompensate for their guilt.

They are usually the ones who are excessively loud and vocal about their love and patriotism for Pakistan, they are always indulging in an exaggerated sense of self-importance by giving the impression that they are doing a ‘favor’ on Pakistan by sending money to their families.

However, when you ask them to come back to Pakistan if they care about the country so much, they came up with the lamest excuses. These excuses have become lamer in the last 2.5 years.

Earlier when Imran was not the PM, they had a standard excuse that they cannot return to Pakistan unless the country is run by an honest man. However, now that Pakistan has a so-called honest man of their liking, they are still not coming back and are coming up with lame excuses to justify themselves.

Talk is cheap. Who cares about Imran and Naya Pakistan when you are living in the first world and earning in dollars or pounds, enjoying the privileges and benefits of the first world etc. These people can only provide armchair patriotism.

If you living a comfortable life in the west good for you, but please spare us the fake patriotism by overcompensating for your guilt.

 

[JimmyGetsBuckets]

Sometimes I think I'm no mans land in the sense that I'm never gonna be able to adjust to the Pakistani life nor will I be able to assimilate 100% with the western culture.

 

[Colorblind Genius]

It is important to understand that being an overseas Pakistani is not a problem at all. The problem is when certain overseas Pakistanis try to overcompensate for their guilt.

They are usually the ones who are excessively loud and vocal about their love and patriotism for Pakistan, they are always indulging in an exaggerated sense of self-importance by giving the impression that they are doing a ‘favor’ on Pakistan by sending money to their families.

However, when you ask them to come back to Pakistan if they care about the country so much, they came up with the lamest excuses. These excuses have become lamer in the last 2.5 years.

Earlier when Imran was not the PM, they had a standard excuse that they cannot return to Pakistan unless the country is run by an honest man. However, now that Pakistan has a so-called honest man of their liking, they are still not coming back and are coming up with lame excuses to justify themselves.

Talk is cheap. Who cares about Imran and Naya Pakistan when you are living in the first world and earning in dollars or pounds, enjoying the privileges and benefits of the first world etc. These people can only provide armchair patriotism.

If you living a comfortable life in the west good for you, but please spare us the fake patriotism by overcompensating for your guilt.

By your logic, all the blue collar labor in the Gulf countries can move back to Pakistan in order to prove their patriotism to YOU and it will also make them become guilt free?

 

[Bigboii]

Did you get any weird feeling when you go back to Pakistan?

Like when im there, its great I also like being among fellow Pakistanis.

but at the same time, im not a "burger". I especially dislike people who talk Urdu with a westernized accent. Like i live in the west and if i can talk proper Urdu so can you. I noticed this more among females then men.

And im not that into traditional stuff. So I cant say i am a "bun kabab" either.

Or I feel like a bun kabab
(my defination being nor burger nor fully desi) eventhoughIknow this is probably not the defination...

 

[Kroll]

Personally, never. I’m British. Sure my father is pakistani and I have pakistani heritage but that’s irrelevant. I was born here and follow the British culture and way of life. So for the off spring of pakistani immigrants it’s different. However for their parents who migrated here it’s different. I’d say majority of Pakistan migrants would stay here with their family. However some would return home. However as that generation passes and their children live on. The children will remain here and never return to Pakistan as their is no reason too.

Honestly I’ve thought about it and once my family who live in Pakistan pass away, say my dads mum. I don’t think I’d ever go to Pakistan again. Which is sad really but their is nothing for me to go to.

It's a good point you make, some parts of the UK are like mini Pakistan anyway. This question is probably more apt for people that originally moved away from Pakistan.

 

[Mamoon]

By your logic, all the blue collar labor in the Gulf countries can move back to Pakistan in order to prove their patriotism to YOU and it will also make them become guilt free?

I am not talking about blue collar workers here. It should be obvious.

I am talking about the people who are making more than good enough money to live comfortable lives in Pakistan. They can easily come back and live comfortably now. However, it is their greed and the attraction of the developed world that prevents them from coming back, and they try to compensate for the guilt by showcasing their fake patriotism.

Unfortunately, I have such members in my own family as well. Most of my close relatives are British Pakistanis, and they are all well-off (most of them are doctors as well) but they have no interest in coming back to Pakistan.

However, they will keep pretending that they love and care about Pakistan and are always there to show cheap patriotism whenever the opportunity arises. However, when you ask them to walk the talk and come back to Pakistan, they start making excuses.

 

[Slog]

By your logic, all the blue collar labor in the Gulf countries can move back to Pakistan in order to prove their patriotism to YOU and it will also make them become guilt free?

To be fair the blue collar workers in Gulf aren’t the ones who try to give lectures about patriotism nor do they have delusions about how they are helping the country stay afloat through their remittances. And this despite them forming the majority of the remittances being sent. So your statement doesn’t have much merit.

 

[Mamoon]

PTI supporters living in Pakistan are actually more sensible and realistic and they mostly agree that this Imran has not lived up to the self-created hype and has failed to deliver.

On the other hand, the overseas PTI supporters continue to live in deep delusions and believe that he has turned the country on its head, everything is better than before and heading in the right direction.

They are out of touch with reality but they get offended and triggered when you show them the mirror.

 

[Giannis]

People can hate on Diaspora Pakistanis all they want but that won't erase their guilt of being born from a corrupt lineage and continuing there corrupt ways

 

[DeadlyVenom]

By your logic, all the blue collar labor in the Gulf countries can move back to Pakistan in order to prove their patriotism to YOU and it will also make them become guilt free?

There is no comparison between blue collar workers and overseas Pakistanis in the west ( I say this as a second Gen Brit Pak). The guys in the gulf doing manual labour are in my eyes absolute heroes, because of the conditions they work in and the sacrifices they have made. Those of us in first world countries are completely different to these guys.

 

[Giannis]

Someone’s getting personal and a bit triggered unfortunately.

Most of the remittances are coming from Pakistani citizens in the Middle East not the West.

In many cases these remittances have led to a dependency syndrome in the families who get these because all they do is just wait for it rather than do any thing productive. May be it would have been better in the long term if they were forced to get off their behinds and actually do something for a living.

Finally he is right. The intention while sending money is not to boost the forex reserves of pakistan or help the economy. It’s a very simple aim to help dependent family members. So you can’t jump around and put haars around your neck for something that wasnt your intention.

If overseas Pakistanis were investing in businesses or setting them up and then employing Pakistanis then I would say it’s actually a genuine great deed with legitimate long term positive impact.

You can divide the west between North America and Europe; The Pakistan diaspora in Europe dose send a lot of remittances, in fact it's quite common for Europe based Pakistan to own rental properties in Pakistan and send money back to relatives especially in rural Punjab, KP and Azad Kashmir not so much in North America or Australia because the diaspora here is usually from the educated upper or upper middle class and my relatives in Pakistan would be embarrassed of even thinking to ask us for money.

 

[Colorblind Genius]

I am not talking about blue collar workers here. It should be obvious.

I am talking about the people who are making more than good enough money to live comfortable lives in Pakistan. They can easily come back and live comfortably now. However, it is their greed and the attraction of the developed world that prevents them from coming back, and they try to compensate for the guilt by showcasing their fake patriotism.

Unfortunately, I have such members in my own family as well. Most of my close relatives are British Pakistanis, and they are all well-off (most of them are doctors as well) but they have no interest in coming back to Pakistan.

However, they will keep pretending that they love and care about Pakistan and are always there to show cheap patriotism whenever the opportunity arises. However, when you ask them to walk the talk and come back to Pakistan, they start making excuses.

So you have two different sets of criteria for "overseas Pakistanis".

Those blue collar workers in the gulf states should continue to work odd and rough jobs and keep sending the remittance to Pakistan, and this proves their patriotism because they don't "lecture" you about it.

And for Pakistani families who are settled in the western countries where they have raised their kids, (many of whom are still in schools and collages) should pack everything up and move back to Pakistan in order to prove their patriotism to folks like you?

How many Pakistanis who live inside, and are unable to get a visa to a foreign countries do you think are patriot to Pakistan?

Perhaps you may not agree but IMO, the most unpatriotic Pakistanis are those who live in Pakistan and they are corrupt towards the system. They are dishonest with their responsibilities and they are cheaters when dealing with their day to day dealing. And I tell you, there are quite a plenty of those in Pakistan.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

There is no comparison between blue collar workers and overseas Pakistanis in the west ( I say this as a second Gen Brit Pak). The guys in the gulf doing manual labour are in my eyes absolute heroes, because of the conditions they work in and the sacrifices they have made. Those of us in first world countries are completely different to these guys.

You dont think there are blue collar workers in the west? Like in UK so many Pakistanis are doing blue collar type jobs. Sure they have it better than the gulf blue collar workers, but its not like they are rolling in dough.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

You dont think there are blue collar workers in the west? Like in UK so many Pakistanis are doing blue collar type jobs. Sure they have it better than the gulf blue collar workers, but its not like they are rolling in dough.

Sure they may have it bad but mostly blue collar Pakistanis in the UK are called over by families or have some relatives here. Obviously this isnt true in all cases. Furthermore there is always the incentive of getting some citizenship here and eventually calling over the wife and kids.

I worked in construction in the Gulf and honestly the sacrifices these labourers make is unbelievable. We should be putting haars around their neck and thanking them from the bottom of our hearts.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

So you have two different sets of criteria for "overseas Pakistanis".

Those blue collar workers in the gulf states should continue to work odd and rough jobs and keep sending the remittance to Pakistan, and this proves their patriotism because they don't "lecture" you about it.

And for Pakistani families who are settled in the western countries where they have raised their kids, (many of whom are still in schools and collages) should pack everything up and move back to Pakistan in order to prove their patriotism to folks like you?

How many Pakistanis who live inside, and are unable to get a visa to a foreign countries do you think are patriot to Pakistan?

Perhaps you may not agree but IMO, the most unpatriotic Pakistanis are those who live in Pakistan and they are corrupt towards the system. They are dishonest with their responsibilities and they are cheaters when dealing with their day to day dealing. And I tell you, there are quite a plenty of those in Pakistan.

I understand the overall sentiment and I do agree that one can have patriotic feelings towards a country even if you arent living there.however, this type of patriotism is slightly hollow compared to those that are living in the country. In fact if i was to rank it then a person expressing unpatriotic sentiments while living inside a country is still more of a patriot than one who is chest beating from outside.

 

[Colorblind Genius]

I understand the overall sentiment and I do agree that one can have patriotic feelings towards a country even if you arent living there.however, this type of patriotism is slightly hollow compared to those that are living in the country. In fact if i was to rank it then a person expressing unpatriotic sentiments while living inside a country is still more of a patriot than one who is chest beating from outside.

yeah, give them an offer of visa to a western country or Australia/NZ, and see how many of those chest thumping patriots jump on the next plane.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

I am not talking about blue collar workers here. It should be obvious.

I am talking about the people who are making more than good enough money to live comfortable lives in Pakistan. They can easily come back and live comfortably now. However, it is their greed and the attraction of the developed world that prevents them from coming back, and they try to compensate for the guilt by showcasing their fake patriotism.

Unfortunately, I have such members in my own family as well. Most of my close relatives are British Pakistanis, and they are all well-off (most of them are doctors as well) but they have no interest in coming back to Pakistan.

However, they will keep pretending that they love and care about Pakistan and are always there to show cheap patriotism whenever the opportunity arises. However, when you ask them to walk the talk and come back to Pakistan, they start making excuses.

What do you think about overseas Pakistanis who were born in Pakistan, but came with their families as children to the west? They never had a choice to leave Pakistan. And most of them dont have that kind of money that they can come back easily to Pakistan.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

I understand the overall sentiment and I do agree that one can have patriotic feelings towards a country even if you arent living there.however, this type of patriotism is slightly hollow compared to those that are living in the country. In fact if i was to rank it then a person expressing unpatriotic sentiments while living inside a country is still more of a patriot than one who is chest beating from outside.

Alot of those people living in Pakistan, would gladly leave if they could get a visa. They are not staying in Pakistan for patriotic reasons.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

yeah, give them an offer of visa to a western country or Australia/NZ, and see how many of those chest thumping patriots jump on the next plane.

Exactly. Even alot of people in posh areas would be willing to leave Pakistan. These people have a pretty good life in Pakistan, yet they would go away if they had a chance. Dont know why they are more patriotic than middle class Pakistanis living abroad.

 

[Bewal Express]

PTI supporters living in Pakistan are actually more sensible and realistic and they mostly agree that this Imran has not lived up to the self-created hype and has failed to deliver.

On the other hand, the overseas PTI supporters continue to live in deep delusions and believe that he has turned the country on its head, everything is better than before and heading in the right direction.

They are out of touch with reality but they get offended and triggered when you show them the mirror.

You make statements and when challenge you run( as regulars know) so once again why don't you give us an alternative. Who is your alternative

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

Sure they may have it bad but mostly blue collar Pakistanis in the UK are called over by families or have some relatives here. Obviously this isnt true in all cases. Furthermore there is always the incentive of getting some citizenship here and eventually calling over the wife and kids.

I worked in construction in the Gulf and honestly the sacrifices these labourers make is unbelievable. We should be putting haars around their neck and thanking them from the bottom of our hearts.

Yes this is true. My family was poor growing up in the US, and i know alot of poor families here. But our condition was way better than the laborers in the gulf.

 

[Bewal Express]

It is important to understand that being an overseas Pakistani is not a problem at all. The problem is when certain overseas Pakistanis try to overcompensate for their guilt.

They are usually the ones who are excessively loud and vocal about their love and patriotism for Pakistan, they are always indulging in an exaggerated sense of self-importance by giving the impression that they are doing a ‘favor’ on Pakistan by sending money to their families.

However, when you ask them to come back to Pakistan if they care about the country so much, they came up with the lamest excuses. These excuses have become lamer in the last 2.5 years.

Earlier when Imran was not the PM, they had a standard excuse that they cannot return to Pakistan unless the country is run by an honest man. However, now that Pakistan has a so-called honest man of their liking, they are still not coming back and are coming up with lame excuses to justify themselves.

Talk is cheap. Who cares about Imran and Naya Pakistan when you are living in the first world and earning in dollars or pounds, enjoying the privileges and benefits of the first world etc. These people can only provide armchair patriotism.

If you living a comfortable life in the west good for you, but please spare us the fake patriotism by overcompensating for your guilt.

IK won 17mn and yours, if you are to be believed. All of these came from PK and not from overseas PKs. If we were allowed to vote, then you can add another few millions to that. I don't want to repeat myself on your total ignorance or even some basic understanding of economics. But without the billions of overseas PK, the rate of Rp would in my estimate would be much much lower. So my challenge to you is to give an alternative.

 

[Bewal Express]

I understand the overall sentiment and I do agree that one can have patriotic feelings towards a country even if you arent living there.however, this type of patriotism is slightly hollow compared to those that are living in the country. In fact if i was to rank it then a person expressing unpatriotic sentiments while living inside a country is still more of a patriot than one who is chest beating from outside.

So Maryam and Billo are living PK and would you describe them as patriots?

 

[DeadlyVenom]

So Maryam and Billo are living PK and would you describe them as patriots?

Who knows about them specifically. However in most cases its more patriotic to live in a country than display hollow patriotism from abroad ( again there are exceptions)

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Alot of those people living in Pakistan, would gladly leave if they could get a visa. They are not staying in Pakistan for patriotic reasons.

One is a hypothetical situation and the other is an actual. For instance we can call someone a criminal for committing a crime....not because they would potentially commit one in a hypothetical scenario.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Remittance culture( in most instances) has actually created a unique social class that are essentially a fake middle class. They in most cases have a small economic contribution and no contribution to the creation of knowledge in the country.

Of course there are exceptions, such as the poor gulf workers who send money back home to their wife and kids. However from my experience in the UK, remittances have created a fat and lazy social class and this benefits nobody.

This isn't patriotism its just feeding your family.

 

[JimmyGetsBuckets]

Remittance culture( in most instances) has actually created a unique social class that are essentially a fake middle class. They in most cases have a small economic contribution and no contribution to the creation of knowledge in the country.

Of course there are exceptions, such as the poor gulf workers who send money back home to their wife and kids. However from my experience in the UK, remittances have created a fat and lazy social class and this benefits nobody.

This isn't patriotism its just feeding your family.

youre right almost everyone has a deadbeat uncle who is leeching of your parents. Refuses to work and relies on the others to feed his family. that's messed up.