Overseas Pakistanis : When would you consider moving back to Pakistan?

[Technics 1210]

International Perception?

International perception is that you get pink salt form the mountains of Himalayas.

In truth, the pink Salt comes from a salt range located in Kalar kahar next to Rawalpindi. The Himalayas are no where near here.

4 months back, international Covid was very to non existent in Pakistan based on international perception. Reality? The test cost Rs.7000 no one could afford it and people dont want to get themselves tested as it cost more to test than to heal.

Yet overseas Pakistanis shouldn't be concerned of Pakistan because we pay our taxes.

Yes I mean international perception. News back home travels fast here and on the topic of C19, Pakistan has been praised by the West on it's handling of the virus.

Thanks to IK, the international perception of Pakistan is changing albiet slowly.

 

[Major]

Only Pakistanis would say something like this. The whole world lobbies for support in the west, but Hod forbid if overseas Pakistanis want to do something or have a say.. all of a sudden we are unpatriotic, or undeserving or should keep our mouths shut.

We wouldn’t be speaking like this if the idiotic awam (which I admit I am still a part of) had not kept electing the same chors over and over and over again and helped bring disaster to our own country.

Abhi abhi kissi na kissi koneti mein ya to Bhutto zinda hai, ya Shareef waqai Shareef hai ya Altaf Bhai heaven sent savior hai.. ye nahi to Molana Diesel or Khadim Rizvi ke cheley mil jayein gay..

We are not really competing with the elite of the elite are we?

ok. so you blame the awaam for voting.

Imran Khan needed to become PM. The awaam wanted Imran Khan to become PM.

How is that possible? Well, the awaam cant vote for the PM, but they can elect the MNA and MPA.

So now awaam votes for Amir Liaqut in Karachi. Why? Because the elected MNA of the party will represent your vote in the National assembly and vote on your behalf for the PM you want. PM agya.

Now the constituency that was under Amir Liaqut is severly damaged.

So yes, now tell me what is awaam suppose to do?

Overseas Pakistani's get angry that awaam doesn't vote for Imran Khan, well the awaam voted for PM that overseas Pakistanis wanted. Now, are the overseas Pakistanis gonna talk about the terrible roads of those consistency's, the high unfair prices, the illegal stuff going on in those communities?

My constituency ended up electing a person who is not even a doctor. Yet not only did that guy become health minister, he jacked up all the medicine prices for a quick buck. The guy has no relation with the field of medicine. But hey, atleast the votes allowed him to vote for PM imran.

Overseas dont know zilch whats going on here

 

[Major]

Yet overseas Pakistanis shouldn't be concerned of Pakistan because we pay our taxes.

Yes I mean international perception. News back home travels fast here and on the topic of C19, Pakistan has been praised by the West on it's handling of the virus.

Thanks to IK, the international perception of Pakistan is changing albiet slowly.

did you know that there was an eat festival and concert going on in Islamabad?
Control virus? Did you know that sops were withdrawn and the govt even opened schools and unis.

Did you know people did not bother to get tested as its not affordable?

Did you know that 1 week ago hospitals have a huge increase in patients?

Did you know that to enter a shadee, you have to access the back door and not front door in Pakistan?

 

[Technics 1210]

did you know that there was an eat festival and concert going on in Islamabad?
Control virus? Did you know that sops were withdrawn and the govt even opened schools and unis.

Did you know people did not bother to get tested as its not affordable?

Did you know that 1 week ago hospitals have a huge increase in patients?

Did you know that to enter a shadee, you have to access the back door and not front door in Pakistan?

These are pety and personal concerns. Vaccines will be dished out for free. Move on.

 

[Major]

These are pety and personal concerns. Vaccines will be dished out for free. Move on.

These are petty concerns? I have seen old grand mothers die from covid entering their lungs. I have seen how their voices and lungs were grasping for breath.

People are not even getting vacinated. My own grandma doesnt want to get vaccinated.

The population is much greater than the amount of Vaccine we are getting.

The whole country can't even get Vaccinated by the end of this year due to limited supply.

Univerrsities opened up, and my class had 6 sutdents with covid along with 2 faculty memebrs that teach us. 1 student i know was in ICU.

These are petty issues? Like i said, you have no idea the way things are being dealt with here. But you just get a false international perception from a news article.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

did you know that there was an eat festival and concert going on in Islamabad?
Control virus? Did you know that sops were withdrawn and the govt even opened schools and unis.

Did you know people did not bother to get tested as its not affordable?

Did you know that 1 week ago hospitals have a huge increase in patients?

Did you know that to enter a shadee, you have to access the back door and not front door in Pakistan?

But none of this is down to overseas Pakistanis, yet you are the one who is complaining that overseas Pakistanis should have no say in Pakistani politics.

 

[Technics 1210]

These are petty concerns? I have seen old grand mothers die from covid entering their lungs. I have seen how their voices and lungs were grasping for breath.

People are not even getting vacinated. My own grandma doesnt want to get vaccinated.

The population is much greater than the amount of Vaccine we are getting.

The whole country can't even get Vaccinated by the end of this year due to limited supply.

Univerrsities opened up, and my class had 6 sutdents with covid along with 2 faculty memebrs that teach us. 1 student i know was in ICU.

These are petty issues? Like i said, you have no idea the way things are being dealt with here. But you just get a false international perception from a news article.

Same thing is happening in UK.

Whats your point?

 

[Major]

But none of this is down to overseas Pakistanis, yet you are the one who is complaining that overseas Pakistanis should have no say in Pakistani politics.

read the post that i replied to.

Because he thinks the country is doing good and thus he would advocate for Imran Khan and PTI to be elected.
If awaam doesnt elect him, than he will give judgements that Pakistanis back home are jahil and know nothing.

Our Overseas breathern judge us alot and critisize us alot aswell.

The viewpoints of locals and overseas Pakistanis is much much different.

The current govt does have alot of overseas support online.

 

[Technics 1210]

read the post that i replied to.

Because he thinks the country is doing good and thus he would advocate for Imran Khan and PTI to be elected.
If awaam doesnt elect him, than he will give judgements that Pakistanis back home are jahil and know nothing.

Our Overseas breathern judge us alot and critisize us alot aswell.

The viewpoints of locals and overseas Pakistanis is much much different.

The current govt does have alot of overseas support online.

Difference is most OPs (overseas Pakistanis) spent time regularly in Pakistan. As an IP (indigenous Pakistan) how many times have you spent time outside Pakistan in the West?

Let the penny drop.

 

[saeedhk]

I wouldnt move back no. At best just go for a holiday and even then to the major cities not the village. My dad has built a huge mansion there and has gotten into a really messy legal battle with some relatives who are saying that it encroaches on their land. He's in Pakistan trying to sort it and it could take months. But even if its sorted theres always stories of people usurping houses overseas people have built in Pakistan and i wouldnt be surprised if that occured.

My dads village has a very high dependancy culture too. People who are your far relatives or not even related will come and ask for money and everyone there has a relative either in the UK or working in the Gulf as a blue collar labourer. A lot of youth esp boys have no intention of education just hoping a rishta comes their way in the UK or last resort they will go to the Gulf.

So living there u would have to deal with people asking for money always.

Then if i was married for wife n daughters living in that village mahol would be like hell for them even going into towns n cities u get the guys openly staring at women like theyve never seen them before. One of the reasons my sister doesnt wanna go back.

As much as theres corruption in the UK too esp at the upper echelons. Theres a better structure in place here and more accountability.

I think living in Pak as an outsider u would get ripped off left right n centre.

Also the older i get i do feel more British as well the childhood memories of holidays in Pakistan carefree playing in the sun fade away when as an adult u realise people see u as an ATM or a rishta n thats it.

The dependency culture is country-wide and everybody is looking for a foreign spouse so they can leave the country. As you said, nobody wants to get an education in Pakistan. I was in Pakistan recently and there is absolutely zero hope that the country would prosper. During my stay, most teenagers I met never went to school or only studied primary.

They would wake up at 1 pm every day, wear a nice shirt, hop on a bike and go out because their relative or family member is sending them pounds or dollars every month. People have zero drive to succeed in life and they see no value in education. They are happy to live off other people’s income.

One of the most common questions I was asked was ,’ How can I come to Hong Kong?’

Also, women are treated worse than animals. They are abused and denied education. Simple tasks that normal girls do outside Pakistan such as going out with friends for coffee, movie or dinner is an impossible task due to cultural and economic restrictions. All women are expected to get married as soon as possible and have as many babies as possible. A truly despicable country!

 

[Major]

Same thing is happening in UK.

Whats your point?

I think you yourself have no idea what you are posting. Please reread what you posted below.

Actually we have a good idea how the current Pakistan government is doing because we get to see the international perception of Pakistan, because you idegineous Pakistanis have been doing a sterling job!

Yet overseas Pakistanis shouldn't be concerned of Pakistan because we pay our taxes.

Yes I mean international perception. News back home travels fast here and on the topic of C19, Pakistan has been praised by the West on it's handling of the virus.

Thanks to IK, the international perception of Pakistan is changing albiet slowly.

 

[Technics 1210]

I think you yourself have no idea what you are posting. Please reread what you posted below.

So you have no point. Moaning about Pakistan as always no matter what.

It's no lie, since IK was in power, Pakistan's international perception has improved. I gave you one example of C19 in how it was handled, and you gave me a sob story thinking you are the only one affected by C19.

Grow up. You are posting on a UK forum, run by Pakistanis, in English. Your problem is IK not OPs.

Tough. Deal with it.

 

[saeedhk]

I would never move to Pakistan. I am really fortunate to be living in a city with such high live standard, strong law and order and competent government that deeply cares for its citizens. Crime is almost no-existent and education is free from kindergarten to university and the government waives some of our power bills and house rents almost every year.

We receive cash handout every two to three years. I just got my HK $10000. Another $5000 has been announced for the coming year.

What repels me from Pakistan is poor law and order, zero regard for human and widespread dishonesty.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

read the post that i replied to.

Because he thinks the country is doing good and thus he would advocate for Imran Khan and PTI to be elected.
If awaam doesnt elect him, than he will give judgements that Pakistanis back home are jahil and know nothing.

Our Overseas breathern judge us alot and critisize us alot aswell.

The viewpoints of locals and overseas Pakistanis is much much different.

The current govt does have alot of overseas support online.

You yourself are far more critical of indigenous Pakistanis, even in that post I quoted, yet you dodged that point and started complaining about overseas Pakistanis.

I will ask you again, how are overseas Pakistanis to blame for any of the faults you raised about resident Pakistanis?

 

[Major]

So you have no point. Moaning about Pakistan as always no matter what.

It's no lie, since IK was in power, Pakistan's international perception has improved. I gave you one example of C19 in how it was handled, and you gave me a sob story thinking you are the only one affected by C19.

Grow up. You are posting on a UK forum, run by Pakistanis, in English. Your problem is IK not OPs.

Tough. Deal with it.

I just told you that no tests are being conducted for Covid, no sops are being followed. Govt had openeed Schools and Unis.

Yet you ignore all that and just want to believe in a self made perception

Brother i can't say anything or argue without anyone who decides to be ignorant on purpose.

Its because of such ignorance that we dont want you to have say in our politics.

As for Pakpassion, am I here dictating or criticizing how the forum should be runned? As for English, dont you know that English is also the official language of Pakistan?

 

[Adil_94]

[MENTION=48598]saeedhk[/MENTION] yeah especially in areas where there are a lot of people who have relatives abroad. UK US HK etc are seen as paved with Gold and the objective is just to get there somehow. So u can join the money train then a lot come here n find that their relatives here who act like Big Shots back home are working unsocial hours 60 hrs a week in tough jobs to send money back home.

Because of lack of education this is all they can do when they arrive here.

But sitting there feeding off outside money they get very entitled demanding new iphone new this new everything.

Any new expense il ring uk n get the money sent through this is the mentality that is prevalent. N if u decide to stop sending money they turn on u in an instant.

N yeah life for most women bar the upper class is heavily curtailed n restricted there compared to the freedom in other countries

 

[Major]

You yourself are far more critical of indigenous Pakistanis, even in that post I quoted, yet you dodged that point and started complaining about overseas Pakistanis.

I will ask you again, how are overseas Pakistanis to blame for any of the faults you raised about resident Pakistanis?

my point was why should overseas Pakistanis be concerned with Pakistan and how its people vote when they themselves dont understand the problems faced by the people. the needs of the people.

Why should overseas Pakistanis judge us when they on purpose act ignorant.

Its like how the Indians say, its an internal matter let the internal people deal with it.

 

[Technics 1210]

I just told you that no tests are being conducted for Covid, no sops are being followed. Govt had openeed Schools and Unis.

Yet you ignore all that and just want to believe in a self made perception

Brother i can't say anything or argue without anyone who decides to be ignorant on purpose.

Its because of such ignorance that we dont want you to have say in our politics.

As for Pakpassion, am I here dictating or criticizing how the forum should be runned? As for English, dont you know that English is also the official language of Pakistan?

And I told you most of the C19 challenges in Pakistan can be found in the UK.

I'm not ignorant, it's just you are jealous. You are full of hate for IK.

You are not interested in the fact Pakistan's international perception is on the rise, you are only interested in demeaning IK.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

Indians and Pakistanis are always at each other's throats but one common thing I've observed between overseas Indians and overseas Pakistanis is that they would be the first to protest any discriminatory policy against them as minorities in the west and would "generally" lean towards the left when it comes to supporting parties but would be the most staunch supporters of right wing policies and governments in their own countries of origin without a hint of care for the minorities living there.

This is partially true. From what i have seen in the US, most of Indians and Pakistanis do support the left wing to ensure their rights are protected. However alot of them also support the right wing, as they are for the most part well off, and support lower taxes, and its not like they will lose freedom if the right is in power.

However in India/Pakistan as they are not a minority, they dont need to support the left, and do support the right wing or centrist parties.

I would however not go as far and say they dont care for minorities in their country. They just care about the majority community alot more.

 

[Major]

And I told you most of the C19 challenges in Pakistan can be found in the UK.

I'm not ignorant, it's just you are jealous. You are full of hate for IK.

You are not interested in the fact Pakistan's international perception is on the rise, you are only interested in demeaning IK.

I also hate Bilawal and Maryam Nawaz.

I hate politicians here because i know how they run the country.

Again, what perception are you talking about when i just told you that perception that you want to believe is false?

I just gave you ground reality, yet you want to believe in fantasy world just because it sooths your ego.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

my point was why should overseas Pakistanis be concerned with Pakistan and how its people vote when they themselves dont understand the problems faced by the people. the needs of the people.

Why should overseas Pakistanis judge us when they on purpose act ignorant.

Its like how the Indians say, its an internal matter let the internal people deal with it.

Overseas Pakistanis are allowed an opinion, but we can't take responsibility for what you make of your own country. If you don't like IK vote for one of the other ones. But I can guarantee you were complaining just as much about Nawaz or Bhutto on PP before the last election.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

Bitter because I pointed out an uncomfortable truth.

If American Pakistanis really care about defending Muslims and Islam, why did they not leave America when Bush kicked off the WoT and killed millions of innocent Muslims?

As I said, this whole drama of caring about Islam and Muslims is just an act. People only care to the extent where it doesn’t harm them and their loved ones.

They will make noise on social media and do some useless boycotts here and there but they will fail to walk the talk because defending Muslim and Islam is not important when it comes to enjoying the opportunities and privileges of living in the U.S.

This whole act is based on convenience. If it is convenient they will stand up for Muslims and Islam and if it is not convenient they will not.

Hence, they are in no position to morally police others and give lectures when they themselves no credibility. When they do it their double-standards will be called out.

Bush killed millions of Muslims? I think majority of the Muslim dead were killed by other Muslims. US is also responsible for Muslims of Kosovo and Bosnia being free.

Also if they did not care about Islam they would simply convert to another religion, instead of being a minority who is only 1% of the US population. Not only do they not convert 99% of the time when they marry a non Muslim women the children are raised as Muslim only.

 

[Technics 1210]

I also hate Bilawal and Maryam Nawaz.

I hate politicians here because i know how they run the country.

Again, what perception are you talking about when i just told you that perception that you want to believe is false?

I just gave you ground reality, yet you want to believe in fantasy world just because it sooths your ego.

One more time in English : the ground realities you mention are not unique to Pakistan.

Let go of your IK hate.

Also let us know how many times you have set foot in the West.

 

[Major]

Overseas Pakistanis are allowed an opinion, but we can't take responsibility for what you make of your own country. If you don't like IK vote for one of the other ones. But I can guarantee you were complaining just as much about Nawaz or Bhutto on PP before the last election.

and what does that mean what we make of our country?

Overseas Pakistanis looked down upon local Pakistanis.

Now overseas Pakistani's want local Pakistani's to vote for PTI so that Imran Khan could be PM. Now in order to make Imran Khan PM we had to vote for Amir Liaqut.

Now, the local awaam ends up electing Amir liaqut for assembly. Isn't that what the Overseas Pakistani's wanted? So why blame the locals when they did exactly what you guys wanted.

Yet you lot blame because you dont understand the politics here.

 

[shaz619]

Every country you live in will have some issues, but if one raises a concern regarding their faith why does that make them less of a Muslim. That is a big judgement to pass. Also don’t understand why folk born in the UK must live in Pakistan in order to improve their moral compass

 

[Technics 1210]

and what does that mean what we make of our country?

Overseas Pakistanis looked down upon local Pakistanis.

Now overseas Pakistani's want local Pakistani's to vote for PTI so that Imran Khan could be PM. Now in order to make Imran Khan PM we had to vote for Amir Liaqut.

Now, the local awaam ends up electing Amir liaqut for assembly. Isn't that what the Overseas Pakistani's wanted? So why blame the locals when they did exactly what you guys wanted.

Yet you lot blame because you dont understand the politics here.

Quit the sob story.

Tell us what you have done for Pakistan? Assuming we OPs don't understand Pakistan relaities, tell us what you proud indigenous Pakistanis have done for Pakistan?

Speak up.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

and what does that mean what we make of our country?

Overseas Pakistanis looked down upon local Pakistanis.

Now overseas Pakistani's want local Pakistani's to vote for PTI so that Imran Khan could be PM. Now in order to make Imran Khan PM we had to vote for Amir Liaqut.

Now, the local awaam ends up electing Amir liaqut for assembly. Isn't that what the Overseas Pakistani's wanted? So why blame the locals when they did exactly what you guys wanted.

Yet you lot blame because you dont understand the politics here.

No we dont.

 

[Bigboii]

read the post that i replied to.

Because he thinks the country is doing good and thus he would advocate for Imran Khan and PTI to be elected.
If awaam doesnt elect him, than he will give judgements that Pakistanis back home are jahil and know nothing.

Our Overseas breathern judge us alot and critisize us alot aswell.

The viewpoints of locals and overseas Pakistanis is much much different.

The current govt does have alot of overseas support online.

PTI supporter's suffer from holier than thou attitude of moral superiority

As soon as IK gets out of power the whole of overseas pakistanis will criticize the people as dumb jaahils without knowing the perspective of people living in the country...

They did it before IK and will do it after him too which is unfair on the people of Pakistan cause you might have lived pakistani experience some years ago but you are not living it "now"

So the best judge of their political leaders are the people living that experience

 

[Major]

PTI supporter's suffer from holier than thou attitude of moral superiority

As soon as IK gets out of power the whole of overseas pakistanis will criticize the people as dumb jaahils without knowing the perspective of people living in the country...

They did it before IK and will do it after him too which is unfair on the people of Pakistan cause you might have lived pakistani experience some years ago but you are not living it "now"

So the best judge of their political leaders are the people living that experience

This is true, this is expected.

 

[Stewie]

ok. so you blame the awaam for voting.

Imran Khan needed to become PM. The awaam wanted Imran Khan to become PM.

How is that possible? Well, the awaam cant vote for the PM, but they can elect the MNA and MPA.

So now awaam votes for Amir Liaqut in Karachi. Why? Because the elected MNA of the party will represent your vote in the National assembly and vote on your behalf for the PM you want. PM agya.

Now the constituency that was under Amir Liaqut is severly damaged.

So yes, now tell me what is awaam suppose to do?

Overseas Pakistani's get angry that awaam doesn't vote for Imran Khan, well the awaam voted for PM that overseas Pakistanis wanted. Now, are the overseas Pakistanis gonna talk about the terrible roads of those consistency's, the high unfair prices, the illegal stuff going on in those communities?

My constituency ended up electing a person who is not even a doctor. Yet not only did that guy become health minister, he jacked up all the medicine prices for a quick buck. The guy has no relation with the field of medicine. But hey, atleast the votes allowed him to vote for PM imran.

Overseas dont know zilch whats going on here

Thats my point. You do what you can. I was using Mamoon’s logic to make a point. What can overseas Pakistanis do? We can only advocate for positive changes in Pakistan. He dragged our taxes into it. Nobody’s intentions are bad here. We are all victims of circumstances, aren’t we. You can’t paint all overseas Pakistanis with a broad brush and smugly judge we don’t know anything? Some of us have far deeper ties to our homeland than you think.
Some of us live our lives with a view to generating a favorable view of Pakistanis abroad, which.. whether you want to believe or not is a matter of consequence.

But as usual, I think this discussion has strayed far far away from the topic.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

and what does that mean what we make of our country?

Overseas Pakistanis looked down upon local Pakistanis.

Now overseas Pakistani's want local Pakistani's to vote for PTI so that Imran Khan could be PM. Now in order to make Imran Khan PM we had to vote for Amir Liaqut.

Now, the local awaam ends up electing Amir liaqut for assembly. Isn't that what the Overseas Pakistani's wanted? So why blame the locals when they did exactly what you guys wanted.

Yet you lot blame because you dont understand the politics here.

We want you to vote for IK because we got sick of hearing you moan about Zardari and Sharif. But it's your country, vote for who you like. If it doesn't work out, vote for someone else. But don't blame overseas Pakistanis for your own rotten values. Corruption reigns because collectively you worship money instead of Allah. Even your maulvis do the same, that is how far the moral compass has swung in Pakistan. Don't blame outsiders for your own failings as a people.

 

[Stewie]

We want you to vote for IK because we got sick of hearing you moan about Zardari and Sharif. But it's your country, vote for who you like. If it doesn't work out, vote for someone else. But don't blame overseas Pakistanis for your own rotten values. Corruption reigns because collectively you worship money instead of Allah. Even your maulvis do the same, that is how far the moral compass has swung in Pakistan. Don't blame outsiders for your own failings as a people.

Collectively ... yes I agree with you but a vast section of level headed people with the right priorities are held hostage to the stubborn political loyalties which are utterly misplaced and detrimental to Pakistan.

 

[Yossarian]

I am in the same boat more or less, although I have been recently and really enjoyed it, but more as a holiday than anything else, same as if I went to Spain or Tunisia. I think this question is more relevant to genuine overseas Pakistanis who have left their homeland to work abroad rather than us Brits of Pakistani heritage.

And yet, our parents (ie our fathers first) also originally came to the UK "for a few years to earn a living, support their families, and then go back home".
And then they brought their wives and young children over so as not to be alone, and all the while intending 'one day to still go back home'.
And here we are today, decades later.

Fact of the matter is that, unless these overseas 'patriotic Pakistanis' are living/working in countries who will never give them permanent residence status (eg most of the Gulf countries), none of them are going back on on a permanent basis.

Sure, some of them may go back for a few years, especially those from well off families from Pakistan who only went to the likes of the UK to get a Western university stamp on their education record, but the overwhelming majority ain't going back on a permanent basis no matter what they spout on here. Even now, whilst they're spouting about going back, they're busy bringing their newly married wives to join them in the likes of the USA and UK. Wait until they have kids, who grow up and start going to school and making friends. See how easy it is to uproot them and take them back to Pakistan then.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

And yet, our parents (ie our fathers first) also originally came to the UK "for a few years to earn a living, support their families, and then go back home".
And then they brought their wives and young children over so as not to be alone, and all the while intending 'one day to still go back home'.
And here we are today, decades later.

Fact of the matter is that, unless these overseas 'patriotic Pakistanis' are living/working in countries who will never give them permanent residence status (eg most of the Gulf countries), none of them are going back on on a permanent basis.

Sure, some of them may go back for a few years, especially those from well off families from Pakistan who only went to the likes of the UK to get a Western university stamp on their education record, but the overwhelming majority ain't going back on a permanent basis no matter what they spout on here. Even now, whilst they're spouting about going back, they're busy bringing their newly married wives to join them in the likes of the USA and UK. Wait until they have kids, who grow up and start going to school and making friends. See how easy it is to uproot them and take them back to Pakistan then.

Agree, this is probably the story of all immigration and emigration in reality. Whether it was our parents looking for new opportunities in Britain, or Brits looking for acting roles in the US or Australia, people have always moved around to find their place in the world. That was the beauty of the EU for me, I liked this freedom.

 

[Mamoon]

Bush killed millions of Muslims? I think majority of the Muslim dead were killed by other Muslims. US is also responsible for Muslims of Kosovo and Bosnia being free.

The American foreign policy has killed and destabilized millions of Muslims in the middle-east and Central Asia thanks to the tax money paid by American Pakistanis who claim to live and support Islam and Muslims over the Internet.

Also if they did not care about Islam they would simply convert to another religion, instead of being a minority who is only 1% of the US population. Not only do they not convert 99% of the time when they marry a non Muslim women the children are raised as Muslim only.

You are clutching at straws if you think that American Pakistanis care about Islam which is why they have not left Islam.

They don’t need to leave Islam because they get a lot of rights and privileges in America as Muslim citizens. In spite of being Muslims, they have access to the rights and privileges of the first world and the most powerful country in the world.

Being Muslims has not prevented them from getting first class education, healthcare, jobs, security etc.

However, if push comes to shove, and USA mandates a law that states that American Pakistanis will have to choose between Islam and American citizenship, a significant portion of these American Pakistanis will prefer to keep their American passports over their status of being Muslims.

These people may claim to be Muslims and pretend that they care, but in reality, they worship the American passport.

 

[Mamoon]

Oh really? I guess when it fits your narrative. I wonder what do you think of millions of US dollars of aid Pakistan got from US in return for US droning their own citizens. I don’t recall Pakistanis standing up asking for those funds to be returned.

Those Pakistanis who are preachy and give lectures on morality and patriotism to others will also be shown the mirror.

For example, a lot of tax evaders in Pakistan give this lame excuse that they don’t pay taxes because they government is corrupt and they don’t trust them.

However, withholding taxes only cripples the country further and it has nothing to do with how corrupt/honest the government is.

These people are still evading even though the self-appointed messiah Imran is the PM now.

There is nothing wrong with paying taxes to western governments who use your tax money to bomb Muslims.

However, the problem when these overseas Pakistanis get preachy and try to lecture others on patriotism and morality, and when they will do that, they will be called out on their hypocrisy.

In general, overseas Pakistanis try to thump their chests over their patriotism and honor more than real Pakistanis (those living in Pakistan) because they overcompensate for the guilt that they carry.

The reality is that we are all hypocrites to an extent. We are patriotic, honorable, and care about Islam and Muslims only when it is convenient.

The moral of the story is that don’t get preachy and don’t try to act that you are moral and patriotic. When you do that, you will be shown the mirror.

 

[Mamoon]

Paying taxes and how its spent is not a choice. There's no alternative as all governments will spend some taxes on imoral/iffy causes.

Still, you are born and bred Pakistani, you hate Pakistan, you'd leave Pakistan if you had the opportunity, which I guess makes you a patriot right?

Paying taxes is not a choice but living in the west is. If these overseas Pakistanis really cared about Muslims and Islam, they would put their money where their mouth is and leave the west to not get blood on their hands.

However, who cares about Muslims getting killed on their tax money when they are getting the privileges and opportunities of living in the first world.

Their care and love for Muslims is only limited to lip-service and some usual, convenient boycotts that don’t conflate with their personal interests.

As far as I am concerned, I have said a dozen times that I am not patriotic. The only reason I am in Pakistan is because of personal reasons. If these reasons did not exist, I wouldn’t wish to spend a second in this country.

The difference between me and others is that I don’t thump my chest over how patriotic and moral I am and how much I care about Muslims.

The reality is that I do not - I only care about people that I care about and that is it. I try to do the right only when it doesn’t hurt me and my family.

I am no different than anyone else in this respect, but the difference is that I am open about my hypocrisy which means that others don’t get the chance to show me a mirror.

If overseas Pakistanis develop the cojones to be honest about the fact that they don’t care about Islam, they don’t care about Muslims, they don’t care about Pakistan and they are only concerned with their personal interests and well-being, no one will criticize them for funding the killings of Muslims.

 

[in_cutter]

[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] if you hate your homeland so much...what are you still doing there?

 

[Yk313]

Wait, who’s going back? And why? What’s there to go back for? Nostalgia only goes so far. Few weeks into living in PAK (not as a visitor) the reality sets in.

You won’t find what you left behind if you were to move back today/in the future. If you’re in love with some idyllic idea of the land you left behind, the reality will be quite tough on you.

 

[Major]

[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] if you hate your homeland so much...what are you still doing there?

i dont understand why lot think that one has to be patriotic? If you are not patriotic that doesnt mean you should leave the country

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] if you hate your homeland so much...what are you still doing there?

Actions speak louder than words. If I was constantly complaining about life in Britain, but stayed here regardless, how seriously would you take my complaints?

 

[Bigboii]

i dont understand why lot think that one has to be patriotic? If you are not patriotic that doesnt mean you should leave the country

Lack of Patriotism is a character flaw so Patriotism shows a person character

Nationalism is what's actually bad and detrimental to the country

 

[in_cutter]

Actions speak louder than words. If I was constantly complaining about life in Britain, but stayed here regardless, how seriously would you take my complaints?

I would ask you the same

 

[in_cutter]

i dont understand why lot think that one has to be patriotic? If you are not patriotic that doesnt mean you should leave the country

I ask him because I don’t know anyone else as negative as Mamoon towards he’a homeland. All he does is whinge & whine.

 

[Sunzi]

Tomorrow if I had it my way (I'm a British born Pakistani) but the older my children get (education - 8 and 11 years old - my daughter attends a very good school), the harder it becomes.

Financially, I think it's possible - but it would be a case of finding the courage to bite the bullet. I wouldn't be returning to work there, more of an early retirement type mindset...

Realistically it's a pipe dream - if immediate family were supportive, I could make it a reality - my late father has a property in Lahore and I have in-laws and "daadko" in Pak too; the infrastructure for a shift is there if I really to explore it.

Wife shuts it down anytime I broach the subject, hallan ke she's Pakistani (no not my cousin ha ha)

 

[Colorblind Genius]

Tomorrow if I had it my way (I'm a British born Pakistani) but the older my children get (education - 8 and 11 years old - my daughter attends a very good school), the harder it becomes.

Financially, I think it's possible - but it would be a case of finding the courage to bite the bullet. I wouldn't be returning to work there, more of an early retirement type mindset...

Realistically it's a pipe dream - if immediate family were supportive, I could make it a reality - my late father has a property in Lahore and I have in-laws and "daadko" in Pak too; the infrastructure for a shift is there if I really to explore it.

Wife shuts it down anytime I broach the subject, hallan ke she's Pakistani (no not my cousin ha ha)

So moving back to Pakistan, even as an early retiree, would make you a patriot? This is the question.

 

[Sunzi]

So moving back to Pakistan, even as an early retiree, would make you a patriot? This is the question.

I don't know? I don't think it has anything to do with that?

I wouldn't be doing it to prove a point, I'd be doing it because I have an affinity to the country and would enjoy the lifestyle I could potentially lead based on the idea of an early retirement.

 

[Colorblind Genius]

I don't know? I don't think it has anything to do with that?

I wouldn't be doing it to prove a point, I'd be doing it because I have an affinity to the country and would enjoy the lifestyle I could potentially lead based on the idea of an early retirement.

which is a very reasonable approach.

The problem I see here is that for overseas Pakistanis, what has been made synonymous to prove their Patriotism, is the event of returning to Pakistan.

Millions of corrupt haram khores who are dishonest with their work and responsibilities, are somehow MORE patriotic than the overseas Pakistanis, just because these dishonest haram khores (that are penny a pound) live in Pakistan?

So the point is: Just because you happen to live in Pakistan, OR for an overseas Pakistani returning to Pakistan, does NOT necessarily make one a "patriot" in either case.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

Tomorrow if I had it my way (I'm a British born Pakistani) but the older my children get (education - 8 and 11 years old - my daughter attends a very good school), the harder it becomes.

Financially, I think it's possible - but it would be a case of finding the courage to bite the bullet. I wouldn't be returning to work there, more of an early retirement type mindset...

Realistically it's a pipe dream - if immediate family were supportive, I could make it a reality - my late father has a property in Lahore and I have in-laws and "daadko" in Pak too; the infrastructure for a shift is there if I really to explore it.

Wife shuts it down anytime I broach the subject, hallan ke she's Pakistani (no not my cousin ha ha)

Why is she so against it if shes from Pakistan?

 

[Technics 1210]

I don't think Mamoon even has a point. He's saying OPs cannot be patriotic because we pay our taxes which makes us hypocritical. Sounds utterly riddiculous from some who doesn't pay tax himself.

What next? Western born/living Pakistanis cannot support Pakistan cricket team?

 

[Sunzi]

which is a very reasonable approach.

The problem I see here is that for overseas Pakistanis, what has been made synonymous to prove their Patriotism, is the event of returning to Pakistan.

Millions of corrupt haram khores who are dishonest with their work and responsibilities, are somehow MORE patriotic than the overseas Pakistanis, just because these dishonest haram khores (that are penny a pound) live in Pakistan?

So the point is: Just because you happen to live in Pakistan, OR for an overseas Pakistani returning to Pakistan, does NOT necessarily make one a "patriot" in either case.

Patriotism isn't even a consideration.

I can't offer you an opinion or argument as it's simply not even a factor. I don't believe it's something I need to prove. I wouldn't ever move to Pakistan and then say "I'm a patriot because I moved to Pakistan" - I am patriotic but moving to Pakistan would have no relevance or relationship to Patriotism for me.

I have visited many times - I studied there a year - I have family including my in-laws there, a property and therefore believe it is a right/entitlement of mine through my heritage which is irrefutably Pakistani.

Why is she so against it if shes from Pakistan?

For many of the reasons PPers have given here; corruption, security and, since we are parents now, education - particularly now that my daughter studies in a very good school.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

The American foreign policy has killed and destabilized millions of Muslims in the middle-east and Central Asia thanks to the tax money paid by American Pakistanis who claim to live and support Islam and Muslims over the Internet.



You are clutching at straws if you think that American Pakistanis care about Islam which is why they have not left Islam.

They don’t need to leave Islam because they get a lot of rights and privileges in America as Muslim citizens. In spite of being Muslims, they have access to the rights and privileges of the first world and the most powerful country in the world.

Being Muslims has not prevented them from getting first class education, healthcare, jobs, security etc.

However, if push comes to shove, and USA mandates a law that states that American Pakistanis will have to choose between Islam and American citizenship, a significant portion of these American Pakistanis will prefer to keep their American passports over their status of being Muslims.

These people may claim to be Muslims and pretend that they care, but in reality, they worship the American passport.

There are no privileges for Pakistani Muslims in the US. The only groups who get privileges are African Americans, Hispanics, and Native Americans. Our success has been our own hard work.

Their is no benefit in us keeping our religion right now. Or for that matter our Pakistani identity. Its only love for Islam and Pakistan.

With that said Im sure their would be people who love the $$$ more than their religion. And if they had to choose they would stick with their American passport. However others would leave to Canada, or New Zealand, etc. There are other first world countries to choose from. Or they could return to Pakistan.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

For many of the reasons PPers have given here; corruption, security and, since we are parents now, education - particularly now that my daughter studies in a very good school.

Fair concerns. I was thinking more on the lines that if she went to Pakistan she could get a maid and a cook, and live a pretty luxurious life.

 

[Mamoon]

[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] if you hate your homeland so much...what are you still doing there?

As I said, I am here for personal reasons. My dad didn’t grab the chance of moving to the UK like his brother and his cousins and instead opted to join the Pakistan civil service.

He wasn’t (isn’t) overly patriotic, but he was much smarter than them and had the intelligence and intellect to pass the highly prestigious and coveted civil service exam which the others couldn’t.

He spent his entire career in Pakistan and now in his old age (he is almost 70) I cannot drag him and my mother out of Pakistan for selfish reasons.

Moreover, I also have assets and wealth in Pakistan so I cannot move out even in the future (may my parents live long, but death is certain).

So I am not in Pakistan because I am patriotic;
I am in Pakistan because of my devotion to my parents and I will be in Pakistan for the rest of my life because of my assets.

 

[Technics 1210]

As I said, I am here for personal reasons. My dad didn’t grab the chance of moving to the UK like his brother and his cousins and instead opted to join the Pakistan civil service.

He wasn’t (isn’t) overly patriotic, but he was much smarter than them and had the intelligence and intellect to pass the highly prestigious and coveted civil service exam which the others couldn’t.

He spent his entire career in Pakistan and now in his old age (he is almost 70) I cannot drag him and my mother out of Pakistan for selfish reasons.

Moreover, I also have assets and wealth in Pakistan so I cannot move out even in the future (may my parents live long, but death is certain).

So I am not in Pakistan because I am patriotic;
I am in Pakistan because of my devotion to my parents and I will be in Pakistan for the rest of my life because of my assets.

Stop making excuses. You expect Pakistanis in the West (born/immigrated) to leave the West to prove their patriotsm.

You can do the same, pack up and leave Pakistan, and prove your hatered of Pakistan.

 

[Sunzi]

Fair concerns. I was thinking more on the lines that if she went to Pakistan she could get a maid and a cook, and live a pretty luxurious life.

It wouldn't be enough for her. That's the sort of thing I have in mind when I cited shifting for an early retirement (maid, driver etc). She doesn't believe the hype and feels the realities of the situation in Pak outweigh the quality of lifestyle we could potentially lead.

 

[Mamoon]

I don't think Mamoon even has a point. He's saying OPs cannot be patriotic because we pay our taxes which makes us hypocritical. Sounds utterly riddiculous from some who doesn't pay tax himself.

What next? Western born/living Pakistanis cannot support Pakistan cricket team?

As I said before, I cannot prove that I pay taxes and you cannot prove that I don’t. Hence, you are free to say what you want.

Pakistanis living in the west can support Pakistan cricket team because people can support sports teams for non-patriotic reasons as well.

For example, nothing impressed me about Pakistan cricket anymore but there was a time when I was a very passionate Pakistan cricket fan, however, I never had patriotic feelings for Pakistan at any point in my life.

Overseas Pakistanis cannot be considered patriots because if they were, they would be living in Pakistan and ensuring that their children grow up in Pakistan.

However, while these first and second generation overseas Pakistanis have a connection with Pakistan, their future generations will have no connection at all.

Your grandchildren, you great grandchildren and the future generations will have no emotions, no feelings and no connection with Pakistan.

That is the extent of the so-called patriotism of these overseas Pakistanis. They love Pakistan so much that they have ensured that their bloodline, their future generations, have nothing to do with Pakistan.

 

[Technics 1210]

As I said before, I cannot prove that I pay taxes and you cannot prove that I don’t. Hence, you are free to say what you want.

Pakistanis living in the west can support Pakistan cricket team because people can support sports teams for non-patriotic reasons as well.

For example, nothing impressed me about Pakistan cricket anymore but there was a time when I was a very passionate Pakistan cricket fan, however, I never had patriotic feelings for Pakistan at any point in my life.

Overseas Pakistanis cannot be considered patriots because if they were, they would be living in Pakistan and ensuring that their children grow up in Pakistan.

However, while these first and second generation overseas Pakistanis have a connection with Pakistan, their future generations will have no connection at all.

Your grandchildren, you great grandchildren and the future generations will have no emotions, no feelings and no connection with Pakistan.

That is the extent of the so-called patriotism of these overseas Pakistanis. They love Pakistan so much that they have ensured that their bloodline, their future generations, have nothing to do with Pakistan.

As I said, you're just jealous. You already have made it clear your father missed a chance to migrate to the UK and try to find solace in a missed opportunity by thinking civic exams are the lick.

You have deep issues.

 

[Mamoon]

Stop making excuses. You expect Pakistanis in the West (born/immigrated) to leave the West to prove their patriotsm.

You can do the same, pack up and leave Pakistan, and prove your hatered of Pakistan.

My “hatred” for Pakistan does not override my love for my parents and and my wealth, so I have to swallow my “hate” and stay.

Similarly, when it comes to overseas Pakistanis, their “love” for Pakistan is much weaker compared to their love for their western passports, and that is why they are not interested in coming back to Pakistan and have ensured that their future generations and bloodline have nothing to do with Pakistan.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

It wouldn't be enough for her. That's the sort of thing I have in mind when I cited shifting for an early retirement (maid, driver etc). She doesn't believe the hype and feels the realities of the situation in Pak outweigh the quality of lifestyle we could potentially lead.

I had the same idea in mind. Take an early retirement and move to Pakistan when i have enough saved that i can live an upper middle class life. I figured any Pakistani girl raised in the west would never want to go to Pakistan, but thought that girls from Pakistan would be more open to moving back.

However as they say Happy Wife Happy Life, so you need to stay there if that's what your begum wants.

 

[MenInG]

Stick to the topic.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

My “hatred” for Pakistan does not override my love for my parents and and my wealth, so I have to swallow my “hate” and stay.

Similarly, when it comes to overseas Pakistanis, their “love” for Pakistan is much weaker compared to their love for their western passports, and that is why they are not interested in coming back to Pakistan and have ensured that their future generations and bloodline have nothing to do with Pakistan.

Deep down you are a hardcore Pakistani. The western mindset is geared toward individual happiness, they would put their parents in a home and go live their own lives. You can moan all you like about Pakistan, but it is the only place you belong.

 

[MenInG]

Deep down you are a hardcore Pakistani. The western mindset is geared toward individual happiness, they would put their parents in a home and go live their own lives. You can moan all you like about Pakistan, but it is the only place you belong.

To me ALLAH swt's earth is limitless.

People worry too much about nationalities all their lives - fact is that you are where you are because each rice grain you eat is so desired by the Almighty.

If you think like that, then there is nothing to worry about.

 

[Slog]

Actions speak louder than words. If I was constantly complaining about life in Britain, but stayed here regardless, how seriously would you take my complaints?

Not everyone has the circumstances to move lol.

Also half the British Pakistanis on this forum complained. About Britain anyway

 

[Technics 1210]

The likes of Mamoon fail to realise one pertinent fact. He's comparing a what would've been with what and where he is. In otherwords if his family moved to the UK in 70s, his assumption is his life would be better compared today, but he fails to realise he would not exist as he does today due to cause and effect in life. This is the fallacy his type cling to.

Cause and effect. What could've been has a direct effect on what is.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Not everyone has the circumstances to move lol.

Also half the British Pakistanis on this forum complained. About Britain anyway

It's ok to complain, not everything is perfect anywhere, but if a place is so bad you hate everything about it, then move already. That applies whether you are living in Pakistan or Britain.

 

[Yk313]

What’s the going definition of patriotism on this thread?

 

[saeedhk]

This all chest-thumping, saying 'Pakistan Zindabad', liking posts about Pakistan, sharing lovey-dovey posts about Pakistan, calling for Sharia law and boycotts of nations hostile to Muslims on social media by overseas Pakistan - all to prove their patriotism - is pure drama. We all saw how planeloads of French Pakistanis relocated to Pakistan following the recent caricature episode. The antics of overseas Pakistanis online are embarrassing.

The gist of the matter is that nobody is willing to compromise on the financial interests. Money comes before everything which is the reason why those calling for Sharia in the UK and elsewhere would never want to live in a Muslim country. Our local mullah here in Hong Kong keeps harping on about Islamic values, laws and virtues and moral degradation of the West but he never bothers moving back to live in Pakistan. Yaha ka khatay ho, peetay ho, aur inko gaali bhi daitay ho! Sharam ani chahiyay!

When people tell me how much of a patriot they are and how much of a true Muslim there are whilst living abroad, I simply scoff at them.

 

[Bigboii]

This all chest-thumping, saying 'Pakistan Zindabad', liking posts about Pakistan, sharing lovey-dovey posts about Pakistan, calling for Sharia law and boycotts of nations hostile to Muslims on social media by overseas Pakistan - all to prove their patriotism - is pure drama. We all saw how planeloads of French Pakistanis relocated to Pakistan following the recent caricature episode. The antics of overseas Pakistanis online are embarrassing.

The gist of the matter is that nobody is willing to compromise on the financial interests. Money comes before everything which is the reason why those calling for Sharia in the UK and elsewhere would never want to live in a Muslim country. Our local mullah here in Hong Kong keeps harping on about Islamic values, laws and virtues and moral degradation of the West but he never bothers moving back to live in Pakistan. Yaha ka khatay ho, peetay ho, aur inko gaali bhi daitay ho! Sharam ani chahiyay!

When people tell me how much of a patriot they are and how much of a true Muslim there are whilst living abroad, I simply scoff at them.

Even western people say that...

 

[Bigboii]

Even western people say that...

Family values of the west are bad we shouldn't be following blind liberalism without properly analyzing the pro and cons

Don't fix that isn't broken

 

[saeedhk]

Family values of the west are bad we shouldn't be following blind liberalism without properly analyzing the pro and cons

Don't fix that isn't broken

The problem is Pakistanis say that Westerners have no morals because their women wear skimpy clothes. They base they opinion on this aspect alone. In reality, Westerners are morally superior to us. There is absolutely no competition.

 

[saeedhk]

Family values of the west are bad we shouldn't be following blind liberalism without properly analyzing the pro and cons

Don't fix that isn't broken

And, what do you mean by family values? I believe family values in Pakistan are worse. Widespread domestic violence, horrors of joint families where daughter-in-laws are only there to cook food for the family of 12, stigma attached with divorce, and zero privacy.

 

[Bigboii]

And, what do you mean by family values? I believe family values in Pakistan are worse. Widespread domestic violence, horrors of joint families where daughter-in-laws are only there to cook food for the family of 12, stigma attached with divorce, and zero privacy.

Nah dude you have to live with people to realize how bad things are

First of all I am talking about a middle class pakistani household

And this is western middle class problems that are concerning (there are plenty of good values too don't gete wrong but the point of absolute superiority leads to problems as we think we have to copy paste things from the west and this is the "only" way to succeed)

Bringing drug addicted boyfriend's, stealing stuff to fuel your habit, the absolute devastation divorce cause to all of the family members, rampant casual sex leading to diseases and trauma for the females involved (this culture leads to rapes), normalization of drug use and many,any other such values that should be looked down upon

When our middle class settles in western nations we outcompete the locals

Part of the reason is strong family values it's our greatest yet ignored strength as a people group

If you start replacing your strength just because you are looking for that absolute pitch perfect western world and attitudes

It'll be bad you should know your weakness for sure
But forgetting your strengths can lead to you taking it for granted and eventually losing it

 

[saeedhk]

Nah dude you have to live with people to realize how bad things are

First of all I am talking about a middle class pakistani household

And this is western middle class problems that are concerning (there are plenty of good values too don't gete wrong but the point of absolute superiority leads to problems as we think we have to copy paste things from the west and this is the "only" way to succeed)

Bringing drug addicted boyfriend's, stealing stuff to fuel your habit, the absolute devastation divorce cause to all of the family members, rampant casual sex leading to diseases and trauma for the females involved (this culture leads to rapes), normalization of drug use and many,any other such values that should be looked down upon

When our middle class settles in western nations we outcompete the locals

Part of the reason is strong family values it's our greatest yet ignored strength as a people group

If you start replacing your strength just because you are looking for that absolute pitch perfect western world and attitudes

It'll be bad you should know your weakness for sure
But forgetting your strengths can lead to you taking it for granted and eventually losing it

The bold part is partly true for Pakistan also. The only difference between is that there is consent but in Pakistan it is forced i.e. rape, sexual assault etc. Drug addiction is a massive problem too.

What sets the West apart from Pakistan in terms of morality is honesty. In the West, you will not find fake medicines, or quacks who would extract your kidney without your knowledge, or fake pilots and teachers, or feudals who would forcibly occupy your land, or government officers asking for bribes, or people who steal gas and water or millions upon millions of out-of-school children, or adulteration in every food item or dead bodies of three year old girls in drains after sexual assault. Pakistan may akhlakiyaat ka janaza hai!

 

[Major]

Lack of Patriotism is a character flaw so Patriotism shows a person character

Nationalism is what's actually bad and detrimental to the country

how is lack of patriotism a character flaw?

I also do not care about being Pakistani and would leave the country if I had a better opportunity.

Some people are patriotic, good for them. But you can't force everyone to love a country where they were born in.

 

[saeedhk]

how is lack of patriotism a character flaw?

I also do not care about being Pakistani and would leave the country if I had a better opportunity.

Some people are patriotic, good for them. But you can't force everyone to love a country where they were born in.

This all talk of being patriotic is cheap especially if you are a Pakistani. For the majority of Pakistanis, it is a misfortune to be born in Pakistanis but they do not admit it publicly. This is the reason why every Pakistani leaves the country if given a chance and become a foreign citizen.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

This all talk of being patriotic is cheap especially if you are a Pakistani. For the majority of Pakistanis, it is a misfortune to be born in Pakistanis but they do not admit it publicly. This is the reason why every Pakistani leaves the country if given a chance and become a foreign citizen.

The same is true for any third world country. Francis N'ganou who just won the UFC heavyweight championship tried 7 times to reach America and was thwarted 6 times before finally making it. He is still very proud to call himself a Cameroon citizen for some reason though and he is a very proud African. Maybe that is why Americans respect him.

 

[Bigboii]

The same is true for any third world country. Francis N'ganou who just won the UFC heavyweight championship tried 7 times to reach America and was thwarted 6 times before finally making it. He is still very proud to call himself a Cameroon citizen for some reason though and he is a very proud African. Maybe that is why Americans respect him.

What's mind boggling is people have love for Somalia, Zimbabwe so clearly economic conditions have nothing to do with being a patriot
It's just basic human tendencies which is GOOD! nationalist's are bad
What it does is they see a financial incentive and leave for somewhere ensuring that the later generation don't identify with thier forefathers culture

But they themselves can be patriotic
Was this Patriotism enough to stop the guy
No
But it doesn't mean he isn't patriotic towards the country his former Homeland "he" is always talking about Somalia or yemen looking to help and just concerns for it's well being
His love didn't doe out it just went to the background due to the financial incentives

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

What's mind boggling is people have love for Somalia, Zimbabwe so clearly economic conditions have nothing to do with being a patriot
It's just basic human tendencies which is GOOD! nationalist's are bad
What it does is they see a financial incentive and leave for somewhere ensuring that the later generation don't identify with thier forefathers culture

But they themselves can be patriotic
Was this Patriotism enough to stop the guy
No
But it doesn't mean he isn't patriotic towards the country his former Homeland "he" is always talking about Somalia or yemen looking to help and just concerns for it's well being
His love didn't doe out it just went to the background due to the financial incentives

You have to understand the motives of those you are arguing with, they are scouring the news sections of Pakistan sites for the filthiest stuff they can find and come running to post it here. You never see them in any thread which is discussing negative news on other countries.

Third world countries have problems with law and order among other things, and I am sure Pakistan is as bad as most of them, but imagine if I started doing the same and went hunting awful stories about...let's say India ...just off the top of my head.....wow I don't think it would be appreciated.

 

[Bigboii]

how is lack of patriotism a character flaw?

I also do not care about being Pakistani and would leave the country if I had a better opportunity.

Some people are patriotic, good for them. But you can't force everyone to love a country where they were born in.

You are a decent human being you love your family, your friends that shows your character
You don't hate tham because they're poor or didn't provide you enough
Similar can be said for the country too if you have an affiliation you should love the country and care

And the constant complaining and solutions by you about Pakistan shows that you care
And that's patriotic too (that's why I said Nationalism is what's actually bad and detrimental to the country, Patriotism is Good cause that's you caring about the country, complaining about the problems offering solutions)

Your caring enough to offer solutions is patriotic in itself

Some people don't love or care for their families, friends I am not forcing tham to love them it's thier choice

But it's also my choice to judge a person's character based on that cause it shows a lot about the person
If you don't care about the place you were born in how loyal would you be to my company for example