Overseas Pakistanis : When would you consider moving back to Pakistan?

[Slog]

Exactly. Even alot of people in posh areas would be willing to leave Pakistan. These people have a pretty good life in Pakistan, yet they would go away if they had a chance. Dont know why they are more patriotic than middle class Pakistanis living abroad.

That is most definitely not the case. I know lot of people including me actually who went abroad to study and then ended up returning. Not all Pakistanis go to the west from a pind

 

[Slog]

Remittance culture( in most instances) has actually created a unique social class that are essentially a fake middle class. They in most cases have a small economic contribution and no contribution to the creation of knowledge in the country.

Of course there are exceptions, such as the poor gulf workers who send money back home to their wife and kids. However from my experience in the UK, remittances have created a fat and lazy social class and this benefits nobody.

This isn't patriotism its just feeding your family.

Yup. It has ended up with a net negative impact in the long run

 

[Slog]

yeah, give them an offer of visa to a western country or Australia/NZ, and see how many of those chest thumping patriots jump on the next plane.

Lol is that a coping mechanism for some sort of guilt?

Firstly those people staying in Pakistan generally aren’t claiming that they are there for patriotic reasons anyway. So your assertion is incorrect to begin with. The issue here is that the people who have left the country and seem to feel guilty and then act more patriotic than anyone there is. There is nothing wrong with leaving for a better life. But then spare the fake, pointless lectures about patriotism because that makes one look like a Clown. You can’t play on both sides of the wicket.

Look I’ve stayed abroad and in Pakistan. And I’ve sent money home at times too. But not once is it due to any patriotic feeling. Thag is the case with 99% of the people who send remittances. They are doing that to help their family and end up putting them in a dependency syndrome. The aim isn’t to help the country lmao and we both know that.

Again nothing wrong with going abroad. Nothing wrong with sending money. But you can’t have this ridiculous situation where you left the country but also want to be giving patriotism lessons lol. Don’t be foolish.

 

[Giannis]

That is most definitely not the case. I know lot of people including me actually who went abroad to study and then ended up returning. Not all Pakistanis go to the west from a pind

The quality of living in big cities of Pakistan are really poor compared to that of first world countries.

 

[Slog]

The quality of living in big cities of Pakistan are really poor compared to that of first world countries.

People don’t just leave for quality of living though

Most of the immigrants are not leading life of luxuries in the west. And obviously they are still likely to prefer that because most of them came from rural pinds so for them it is still a step up compared to their option back home.

But for people coming from upper class in Lahore, Karachi, Islamabad and other big cities; more often than not they will have a more luxurious life in Pakistan unless they manage to make it big in the west which is obv not a guarantee.

 

[Colorblind Genius]

Lol is that a coping mechanism for some sort of guilt?

Firstly those people staying in Pakistan generally aren’t claiming that they are there for patriotic reasons anyway. So your assertion is incorrect to begin with. The issue here is that the people who have left the country and seem to feel guilty and then act more patriotic than anyone there is. There is nothing wrong with leaving for a better life. But then spare the fake, pointless lectures about patriotism because that makes one look like a Clown. You can’t play on both sides of the wicket.

Look I’ve stayed abroad and in Pakistan. And I’ve sent money home at times too. But not once is it due to any patriotic feeling. Thag is the case with 99% of the people who send remittances. They are doing that to help their family and end up putting them in a dependency syndrome. The aim isn’t to help the country lmao and we both know that.

Again nothing wrong with going abroad. Nothing wrong with sending money. But you can’t have this ridiculous situation where you left the country but also want to be giving patriotism lessons lol. Don’t be foolish.

This has to be the most laughable assertion made in this entire thread.

Do you feel "guilty" for leaving Pakistan? "Guilty"? I mean seriously? lol

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Yup. It has ended up with a net negative impact in the long run

Sadly( not completely related to the thread) it also had a negative impact to families and communities in the UK. People became obsessed with sending wealth to Pakistan they often neglected their own wife and kids here.

 

[Slog]

This has to be the most laughable assertion made in this entire thread.

Do you feel "guilty" for leaving Pakistan? "Guilty"? I mean seriously? lol

I don’t try to convince people in Pakistan that im more patriotic than them or am somehow saving the country and keeping it afloat by sending money to my family. If I did that then I would probably be saying that to compensate for some guilt I would think. Why else would I make such a stupid and laughable assertion?

 

[DeadlyVenom]

It's not practical either. If someone decides to take this step he is either a risk taker or very ignorant.

People like us living outside will get ripped in minutes. Without the recipe of "sifarish" and "rishwat" there is no way you can succeed in Pakistan. Instead of improving things only have gotten worse in the last few years.

The only thing people will achieve by this venture is more disappointment in life and losing their ideal holiday destination.

I think this a bit of an exaggeration and in all honesty an excuse that we overseas Pakistanis make for not going back. Rishwat and Sifarish are common but not as common as people make out. In fact in Western culture these things exist they are just a bit hidden.

For instance trying to get planning permission without getting 'sifarish' from a local councillor is not easy. Moreover you can see how greasing political palms can get you access to top government contracts in the UK.

I'm not saying Pakistan is perfect but the effects of pateonage and corruption are vastly overrated. I mean we often complain and overhype the issue of parchism in the cricket team but in the history of Pakistan cricket you can probably count these real Parchi players on your fingers.

The reality is that wealth and privilege will open doors to you in every country of the world - yes the effects may be more in Pakistan but its not as crippling as you would believe and there most areas are still meritocratic.

 

[Slog]

Sadly( not completely related to the thread) it also had a negative impact to families and communities in the UK. People became obsessed with sending wealth to Pakistan they often neglected their own wife and kids here.

Never thought of it this way but you’re probably correct especially when it’s people like the taxi driver I met in New York who was bearing expenses for his mother and brothers family in Pakistan whilst being stuck in the same small apartment in Jackson heights for 20+ years

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

That is most definitely not the case. I know lot of people including me actually who went abroad to study and then ended up returning. Not all Pakistanis go to the west from a pind

Yes i know that. I have family members who are loaded, who have left Pakistan. Thats what im saying alot of people from elite areas are willing to leave. So they are not necessarily more patriotic than middle class families who have left.

That is most definitely not the case. I know lot of people including me actually who went abroad to study and then ended up returning. Not all Pakistanis go to the west from a pind

I know this too. I have plenty of family members who have done this study abroad, and return to Pakistan.

And Most likely in Karachi you are from areas like DHA, Karsaz , Clifton, and not Gulistan-e-Johar, Nazimanad, or Buffer Zone.

The point is that people from not that good areas cant necessarily afford to go back to Pakistan. It does not mean that they are less patriotic than people who are from better areas, and can afford to go back.

 

[Slog]

Yes i know that. I have family members who are loaded, who have left Pakistan. Thats what im saying alot of people from elite areas are willing to leave. So they are not necessarily more patriotic than middle class families who have left.




I know this too. I have plenty of family members who have done this study abroad, and return to Pakistan.

And Most likely in Karachi you are from areas like DHA, Karsaz , Clifton, and not Gulistan-e-Johar, Nazimanad, or Buffer Zone.

The point is that people from not that good areas cant necessarily afford to go back to Pakistan. It does not mean that they are less patriotic than people who are from better areas, and can afford to go back.

Ofcourse. Where did I say they are more or less patriotic? Most people at the end of the day take primarily selfish decisions. You think the son of a sugar mill owner moved back to pakistan after studying abroad in order to serve the country lol? No it’s just for a easier and more luxurious life. There are very few genuinely patriotic people like Edhi, Abdus Salam (unfortunately countrt didn’t reciprocate) etc

All I’m saying is that everyone has their own circumstances to take care of and face so no one is really in a position to be lecturing others on patriotism. What i find funny and hysterical is people who leave the country and then suddenly become massive online patriots and then claim it is due to them that the country is surviving lol.

 

[Kroll]

youre right almost everyone has a deadbeat uncle who is leeching of your parents. Refuses to work and relies on the others to feed his family. that's messed up.

Haha quite true. Problem is a lot of these people and relatives in Pakistan think those us living in west like the UK are living in a bed of roses.

We're also being given bucket loads of free cash by the state in addition to the money trees that are growing in the rose garden.

 

[Colorblind Genius]

I don’t try to convince people in Pakistan that im more patriotic than them or am somehow saving the country and keeping it afloat by sending money to my family. If I did that then I would probably be saying that to compensate for some guilt I would think. Why else would I make such a stupid and laughable assertion?

No, you missed the boat altogether.
You need to go back and read the previous posts.
A point was made where someone in Pakistan said that overseas Pakistanis should not speak in "OUR" country's matters. Meaning, the matters of Pakistan, and hence overseas Pakistanis should also not have the right to participate in Pakistani elections.

In response, it was stated that not only many overseas Pakistani hold dual nationalities, which means they have a Pakistani vote, which in turn, makes them eligible to vote in Pakistani elections (duh!), but they also do whatever they can and within their means to support Pakistan by foreign remittances, and these remittances are just only the money sent to relatives but also they sent the funds to Pakistan to support various humanitarian causes, charities and help the needy. Be it Edhi foundation, Shaukat Khanum projects, Helping Hand projects, various project for children and empowering females, personal zakaat and charity, etc. You name it and overseas Pakistanis have tried to do their part.
How gullible one can be for being able to understand this?

But again, if one believes that an overseas Pakistani who is settled in a "western country" (even for decades and have kids that were born and raised abroad), has to pack everything and move to Pakistan in order to support his patriotism (lol), can live the wishful dream, and I don't have an issue with it.

So far the lecture on patriotism goes,

The kind of rampant corruption and ill social elements many of the Pakistanis living in Pakistan are involved in, it seems like they are the ones who need a lecture on Patriotism than anyone else cuz they are the actual traitors of the country, IMO.

 

[Colorblind Genius]

Imagine the scene when an overseas Pakistani packs up everything and forces his family and kids to move to Pakistan so that he could prove his patriotism. He lands at the airport and custom/immigration people demand bribe and kickbacks in order to process his legal entry into the country. (They usually ask in dollars or pounds).
Who needs a lecture on "patriotism" and who should be feeling "guilty"?

 

[Bilal_103]

If you grow up in the west it's not gonna be a easy transition to move back. I dont think I'm ever gonna move back tbh.

 

[Slog]

No, you missed the boat altogether.
You need to go back and read the previous posts.
A point was made where someone in Pakistan said that overseas Pakistanis should not speak in "OUR" country's matters. Meaning, the matters of Pakistan, and hence overseas Pakistanis should also not have the right to participate in Pakistani elections.

In response, it was stated that not only many overseas Pakistani hold dual nationalities, which means they have a Pakistani vote, which in turn, makes them eligible to vote in Pakistani elections (duh!), but they also do whatever they can and within their means to support Pakistan by foreign remittances, and these remittances are just only the money sent to relatives but also they sent the funds to Pakistan to support various humanitarian causes, charities and help the needy. Be it Edhi foundation, Shaukat Khanum projects, Helping Hand projects, various project for children and empowering females, personal zakaat and charity, etc. You name it and overseas Pakistanis have tried to do their part.
How gullible one can be for being able to understand this?

But again, if one believes that an overseas Pakistani who is settled in a "western country" (even for decades and have kids that were born and raised abroad), has to pack everything and move to Pakistan in order to support his patriotism (lol), can live the wishful dream, and I don't have an issue with it.

So far the lecture on patriotism goes,

The kind of rampant corruption and ill social elements many of the Pakistanis living in Pakistan are involved in, it seems like they are the ones who need a lecture on Patriotism than anyone else cuz they are the actual traitors of the country, IMO.

You are free to have that opinion. But as an overseas Pakistani myself currently; I don’t see myself being in any position to lecture people living in Pakistan on patriotism. Who are these ‘many’ Pakistanis invoked in social ills and corruption? You are in no position to be judging anyone lol.

And finally. Most of the overseas Pakistanis themselves aren’t killing it abroad and doing very well as communities so they hardly are any role model to take lectures from or advice from.

 

[Slog]

Imagine the scene when an overseas Pakistani packs up everything and forces his family and kids to move to Pakistan so that he could prove his patriotism. He lands at the airport and custom/immigration people demand bribe and kickbacks in order to process his legal entry into the country. (They usually ask in dollars or pounds).
Who needs a lecture on "patriotism" and who should be feeling "guilty"?

This almost certainly never happens. Stop exaggerating.Maybe happens in that guilt ridden world of yours. Also no one is asking to prove patriotism. Just stop with the lectures lol esp when you aren’t in a position to do so yourself.

Also if it is such an issue then you are free to cut your ties from the country. I don’t get why you insist on keeping ties to such a lawless country lol. Better for overseas Pakistanis to better their stock abroad because God knows the negative stereotypes they have especially in Europe and UK.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Imagine the scene when an overseas Pakistani packs up everything and forces his family and kids to move to Pakistan so that he could prove his patriotism. He lands at the airport and custom/immigration people demand bribe and kickbacks in order to process his legal entry into the country. (They usually ask in dollars or pounds).
Who needs a lecture on "patriotism" and who should be feeling "guilty"?

With respect bro did this happen to you recently?

I remember travelling to Pakistan over 20 years ago and the airports were a bit of a mess but even then such a scenario was unlikely.

In recent times I would stick my neck out and say that Pakistani airports are almost first world standards and the staff are exemplary. I doubt a scenario similar to yours would occur.

 

[Slog]

With respect bro did this happen to you recently?

I remember travelling to Pakistan over 20 years ago and the airports were a bit of a mess but even then such a scenario was unlikely.

In recent times I would stick my neck out and say that Pakistani airports are almost first world standards and the staff are exemplary. I doubt a scenario similar to yours would occur.

It doesn’t occur. Guy lives on set of Citizen Khan I guess because that’s only place where such a ridiculous situation might happen.

 

[Colorblind Genius]

This almost certainly never happens. Stop exaggerating.Maybe happens in that guilt ridden world of yours. Also no one is asking to prove patriotism. Just stop with the lectures lol esp when you aren’t in a position to do so yourself.

Also if it is such an issue then you are free to cut your ties from the country. I don’t get why you insist on keeping ties to such a lawless country lol. Better for overseas Pakistanis to better their stock abroad because God knows the negative stereotypes they have especially in Europe and UK.

lol @ cutting my my ties to Pakistan.
Dude you are funny.

Pakistan is my country, yes it's ranked at #120 on the scale of corruption and yes there is rampant injustice all over the country. There are a few posts here that indicate how was the experience of overseas Pakistanis and what happened to their real estate properties upon their return to Pakistan. You can deny it all you want but these are a few of 100s.

I hold a Pakistani passport together with an American passport. I don't need anyone to suggest me on how am I supposed to prove my patriotism to anyone.
My patriotism is with the land of Pakistan and not with those people of Pakistan who are corrupt to the core. I can proudly say that I am much better and more patriotic Pakistani than many of them scumbags.

You can choose to live in a lala land but in some way you are right. Lecturing those corrupt Pakistanis won't change a thing in them.

 

[Colorblind Genius]

With respect bro did this happen to you recently?

I remember travelling to Pakistan over 20 years ago and the airports were a bit of a mess but even then such a scenario was unlikely.

In recent times I would stick my neck out and say that Pakistani airports are almost first world standards and the staff are exemplary. I doubt a scenario similar to yours would occur.

No it didn't happen to me and indeed things have changed for the better at the airports in Pakistan. However, I think you should've gotten the idea if you've read post #124 and few afterwards.

 

[hoshiarpurexpress]

Imagine the scene when an overseas Pakistani packs up everything and forces his family and kids to move to Pakistan so that he could prove his patriotism. He lands at the airport and custom/immigration people demand bribe and kickbacks in order to process his legal entry into the country. (They usually ask in dollars or pounds).
Who needs a lecture on "patriotism" and who should be feeling "guilty"?

Genuinely asking... does this happen for the normal immigration in Pakistan .Because this has never happened with me or anyone I personally know when travelling back to India. The customs one may be happening India as well but most of times people are trying to avoid customs tax. If you pay the duty no one bothers you.

 

[Slog]

Genuinely asking... does this happen for the normal immigration in Pakistan .Because this has never happened with me or anyone I personally know when travelling back to India. The customs one may be happening India as well but most of times people are trying to avoid customs tax. If you pay the duty no one bothers you.

This does not happen. This guy is simply making things up clearly.

 

[Slog]

lol @ cutting my my ties to Pakistan.
Dude you are funny.

Pakistan is my country, yes it's ranked at #120 on the scale of corruption and yes there is rampant injustice all over the country. There are a few posts here that indicate how was the experience of overseas Pakistanis and what happened to their real estate properties upon their return to Pakistan. You can deny it all you want but these are a few of 100s.

I hold a Pakistani passport together with an American passport. I don't need anyone to suggest me on how am I supposed to prove my patriotism to anyone.
My patriotism is with the land of Pakistan and not with those people of Pakistan who are corrupt to the core. I can proudly say that I am much better and more patriotic Pakistani than many of them scumbags.

You can choose to live in a lala land but in some way you are right. Lecturing those corrupt Pakistanis won't change a thing in them.

Yes no one should be giving you lessons on patriotism. And neither should you or your ilk be giving lessons on patriotism to anyone in Pakistan because you don’t stand on much ground there. Simple enough.

 

[Colorblind Genius]

Genuinely asking... does this happen for the normal immigration in Pakistan .Because this has never happened with me or anyone I personally know when travelling back to India. The customs one may be happening India as well but most of times people are trying to avoid customs tax. If you pay the duty no one bothers you.

Already answered above.
Things have changed for good and now they are a lot better.
There are still some incidents that happen which are ordinary and could happen at any third world country airport, but you can search YT, there are couple of videos.

Back in 2001 when I tried to check-in at the airport in Peshawar, the immigration clerk told me that my American passport was fake, and he has to call the cops.
I simply named a high ranked officer in the immigration office who happened to be a relative, and told him that I am his guest. He stamped my passport and handed it back with a salute.

These incidents don't happen anymore cuz of better enforced law and many check n balances in place. I guess CCTV cameras might've also played an impactful role to deter them.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

Ofcourse. Where did I say they are more or less patriotic? Most people at the end of the day take primarily selfish decisions. You think the son of a sugar mill owner moved back to pakistan after studying abroad in order to serve the country lol? No it’s just for a easier and more luxurious life. There are very few genuinely patriotic people like Edhi, Abdus Salam (unfortunately countrt didn’t reciprocate) etc

All I’m saying is that everyone has their own circumstances to take care of and face so no one is really in a position to be lecturing others on patriotism. What i find funny and hysterical is people who leave the country and then suddenly become massive online patriots and then claim it is due to them that the country is surviving lol.

Completely agree with this. However my original comment, was to someone else who was responding to someone else who claimed Pakistanis in Pakistan are more patriotic.

Overseas Pakistanis are not sending remittances because of patriotism. And Pakistanis in Pakistan are not working there out of patriotic reasons. We are all doing what we think is best for ourselves and our families.

 

[Colorblind Genius]

Completely agree with this. However my original comment, was to someone else who was responding to someone else who claimed Pakistanis in Pakistan are more patriotic.

Overseas Pakistanis are not sending remittances because of patriotism. And Pakistanis in Pakistan are not working there out of patriotic reasons. We are all doing what we think is best for ourselves and our families.

Mostly true but not entirely.
There are some living in the general public of Pakistan who are true patriots. They work with honesty and they are faithful towards their day to day work responsibilities. Pakistani military men are also true patriot towards their country.

And by the same token, there are thousands of Pakistanis who are settled abroad for decades, they may not have a relative in Pakistan asking them for financial support but they pledge their patriotism by supporting lots of charitable work in Pakistan. They are patriots in my opinion.

 

[Bigboii]

Mostly true but not entirely.
There are some living in the general public of Pakistan who are true patriots. They work with honesty and they are faithful towards their day to day work responsibilities. Pakistani military men are also true patriot towards their country.

And by the same token, there are thousands of Pakistanis who are settled abroad for decades, they may not have a relative in Pakistan asking them for financial support but they pledge their patriotism by supporting lots of charitable work in Pakistan. They are patriots in my opinion.

You sure about the generals...

 

[Mamoon]

Imagine the scene when an overseas Pakistani packs up everything and forces his family and kids to move to Pakistan so that he could prove his patriotism. He lands at the airport and custom/immigration people demand bribe and kickbacks in order to process his legal entry into the country. (They usually ask in dollars or pounds).
Who needs a lecture on "patriotism" and who should be feeling "guilty"?

Firstly, this doesn’t happen. It is an unrealistic scenario. Your re-entry to the country will not be blocked and you will not be left stranded at the airport if you don’t pay them dollars or pounds.

Secondly, What is worse? Giving bribes and kickbacks in Pakistan or paying taxes to western governments who use your tax money to kill Muslims?

Overseas Pakistanis give lectures on morality and guilt but they have conveniently justified how their tax money is used to bomb innocent Muslims.

 

[Mamoon]

[MENTION=151861]Colorblind Genius[/MENTION]

You hold an American passport. How many innocent Muslims have the American government killed in the last 20 years through your tax money?

Do you really have a problem with paying a few dollars and pounds at Pakistani airports to get your re-entry processed smoothly?

 

[Bigboii]

[MENTION=151861]Colorblind Genius[/MENTION]

You hold an American passport. How many innocent Muslims have the American government killed in the last 20 years through your tax money?

Do you really have a problem with paying a few dollars and pounds at Pakistani airports to get your re-entry processed smoothly?

How do you feel about Pak army/ISI involved in killings of 1000s of Pashtun's in afghanistan
Done with your tax rupees or if you don't pay taxes that's another thing...

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

How do you feel about Pak army/ISI involved in killings of 1000s of Pashtun's in afghanistan
Done with your tax rupees or if you don't pay taxes that's another thing...

Not to mention killing Palestinans in Jordan, and supplying weapons to Myanmar to kill the Rohingya. And lets not even start with what happened in East Pakistan.

American government at least saved the Muslims of Kosovo and Bosnia.

 

[Stewie]

I would consider moving after retirement if the country shows a lot of improvement in law and order and fighting corruption. I have a lot of family there and wouldn’t mind going back to my roots.

 

[Mamoon]

How do you feel about Pak army/ISI involved in killings of 1000s of Pashtun's in afghanistan
Done with your tax rupees or if you don't pay taxes that's another thing...

It is not an ideal situation but it is what it is. I don’t feel bad or guilty about it because there is no way around it.

Similarly I don’t feel bad or guilty when I have to pay bribes and kickbacks on certain occasions because that is how the system works. It is the oil that keeps the machinery moving.

However, overseas Pakistanis gives lectures on morality and consider themselves too honest and pious to pay bribes in Pakistan, but at the same time, when it comes to paying tax money to western government who use their money to kill Muslims, they justify it and don’t feel any guilt.

The reality is that if you live in Pakistan you will have to pay bribe; if you live in the west you will be funding killings of Muslims.

Unless you go and live in a forest and cut yourself off from the world, you will be doing things that are wrong both from a moral and Islamic perceptive, simply because it is how the system (where you live) works.

That is why overseas Pakistanis should not come up with these lame excuses that we cannot come back to Pakistan because we will have to pay bribes and we are too pious to do that when you don’t feel any guilt over funding the killings of Muslims with your tax money.

The problem is not with being an overseas Pakistanis. The problem is with the excuses and justifications that they give and the fake patriotism that they preach.

Instead of clutching at straws, just admit the truth. You don’t want to come back to Pakistan because you don’t want to. You are comfortable where you are and it is better for your and your families.

You don’t love and care enough about Pakistan to give all of that up and live in the country.

Don’t come up with these lame excuses that we don’t want to pay bribes. Before 2018, the lame excuse was that the leaders are not honest, but now we Imran who is supposedly the champion of honesty, and we are not seeing overseas Pakistanis coming back to live in Naya Pakistan.

They are not fooling anyone with these laughable excuses and justifications.

 

[Bigboii]

It is not an ideal situation but it is what it is. I don’t feel bad or guilty about it because there is no way around it.

Similarly I don’t feel bad or guilty when I have to pay bribes and kickbacks on certain occasions because that is how the system works. It is the oil that keeps the machinery moving.

However, overseas Pakistanis gives lectures on morality and consider themselves too honest and pious to pay bribes in Pakistan, but at the same time, when it comes to paying tax money to western government who use their money to kill Muslims, they justify it and don’t feel any guilt.

The reality is that if you live in Pakistan you will have to pay bribe; if you live in the west you will be funding killings of Muslims.

Unless you go and live in a forest and cut yourself off from the world, you will be doing things that are wrong both from a moral and Islamic perceptive, simply because it is how the system (where you live) works.

That is why overseas Pakistanis should not come up with these lame excuses that we cannot come back to Pakistan because we will have to pay bribes and we are too pious to do that when you don’t feel any guilt over funding the killings of Muslims with your tax money.

The problem is not with being an overseas Pakistanis. The problem is with the excuses and justifications that they give and the fake patriotism that they preach.

Instead of clutching at straws, just admit the truth. You don’t want to come back to Pakistan because you don’t want to. You are comfortable where you are and it is better for your and your families.

You don’t love and care enough about Pakistan to give all of that up and live in the country.

Don’t come up with these lame excuses that we don’t want to pay bribes. Before 2018, the lame excuse was that the leaders are not honest, but now we Imran who is supposedly the champion of honesty, and we are not seeing overseas Pakistanis coming back to live in Naya Pakistan.

They are not fooling anyone with these laughable excuses and justifications.

Fair enough tbh...
If the things about "corruption" excuses are correct than I have no problem they deserve it

Go get em "putar"

 

[Colorblind Genius]

[MENTION=151861]Colorblind Genius[/MENTION]

You hold an American passport. How many innocent Muslims have the American government killed in the last 20 years through your tax money?

Do you really have a problem with paying a few dollars and pounds at Pakistani airports to get your re-entry processed smoothly?

Even part of your tax money (if you or anyone that pays in Pakistan) ends up in the treasury of American financial institutions and the U.S., govt gets its fair share. So you tell me? It’s not as if your sh!t doesn’t smell.

My tax money is also used to provide Aid to many Muslim countries. My tax money is also used to support 100’s of Pakistani graduate doctors who arrive in the US to start their residencies.

There are things that are in our control and we try to make the best out of it. How hard is it to understand?

 

[Colorblind Genius]

It is not an ideal situation but it is what it is. I don’t feel bad or guilty about it because there is no way around it.

Similarly I don’t feel bad or guilty when I have to pay bribes and kickbacks on certain occasions because that is how the system works. It is the oil that keeps the machinery moving.

However, overseas Pakistanis gives lectures on morality and consider themselves too honest and pious to pay bribes in Pakistan, but at the same time, when it comes to paying tax money to western government who use their money to kill Muslims, they justify it and don’t feel any guilt.

The reality is that if you live in Pakistan you will have to pay bribe; if you live in the west you will be funding killings of Muslims.

Unless you go and live in a forest and cut yourself off from the world, you will be doing things that are wrong both from a moral and Islamic perceptive, simply because it is how the system (where you live) works.

That is why overseas Pakistanis should not come up with these lame excuses that we cannot come back to Pakistan because we will have to pay bribes and we are too pious to do that when you don’t feel any guilt over funding the killings of Muslims with your tax money.

The problem is not with being an overseas Pakistanis. The problem is with the excuses and justifications that they give and the fake patriotism that they preach.

Instead of clutching at straws, just admit the truth. You don’t want to come back to Pakistan because you don’t want to. You are comfortable where you are and it is better for your and your families.

You don’t love and care enough about Pakistan to give all of that up and live in the country.

Don’t come up with these lame excuses that we don’t want to pay bribes. Before 2018, the lame excuse was that the leaders are not honest, but now we Imran who is supposedly the champion of honesty, and we are not seeing overseas Pakistanis coming back to live in Naya Pakistan.

They are not fooling anyone with these laughable excuses and justifications.

lol haha
What a piece of hogwash!
But I will give it to you.


Being in Pakistan, why don’t you stop paying bribes to support your claim of being a patriot and being caring towards Pakistan?

How about you and 10’s of millions of others do that to not only prove your love for Pakistan but also leave no more excuses left for overseas Pakistanis when they try to talk you into it and point out the corruption?

Let’s see!

 

[Mamoon]

lol haha
What a piece of hogwash!
But I will give it to you.


Being in Pakistan, why don’t you stop paying bribes to support your claim of being a patriot and being caring towards Pakistan?

How about you and 10’s of millions of others do that to not only prove your love for Pakistan but also leave no more excuses left for overseas Pakistanis when they try to talk you into it and point out the corruption?

Let’s see!

But I don’t love Pakistan and I am not patriotic. I have said it many many times. The only reason I am in Pakistan is because my parents and assets are here.

I wish my father would have moved to the UK like his brother and cousins in the 80s when he had the chance.

If I had a choice, Pakistan would be the last country that I would have chosen for myself and my future generations.

I consider myself very unlucky to be born in this country.

However, I am not the one giving lectures on patriotism and morality to others. I don’t believe in patriotism and nationalism. It is all nonsense.

The issue when overseas Pakistanis give lectures on patriotism to Pakistanis living in Pakistan, and then they come up with the lamest excuses of why they cannot come back to Pakistan.

Why not simply admit that you don’t love and care about Pakistan enough to comeback? After all, it is the real reason why overseas Pakistanis are not interested in coming back.

It is better to admit that you don’t care about Pakistan (like I do) than to do what overseas Pakistanis do, i.e. show fake patriotism over the Internet and then make a million lame excuses when you ask them to come back to Pakistan if the love the country so much and are so patriotic.

 

[Mamoon]

Even part of your tax money (if you or anyone that pays in Pakistan) ends up in the treasury of American financial institutions and the U.S., govt gets its fair share. So you tell me? It’s not as if your sh!t doesn’t smell.

My tax money is also used to provide Aid to many Muslim countries. My tax money is also used to support 100’s of Pakistani graduate doctors who arrive in the US to start their residencies.

There are things that are in our control and we try to make the best out of it. How hard is it to understand?

But I don’t consider giving bribes a problem and neither do I care where my tax money goes. I only care about my family and my personal well-being. I will do whatever I can that is best for us.

However, overseas Pakistanis are the ones lecturing on morality and honesty. They give this lame excuse now (since the previous excuse of not having an honest leader doesn’t work anymore )) that they don’t want to pay bribes in Pakistan which is why they don’t want to comeback,

but hysterically enough, they don’t have a problem with the fact that their tax money is used to kill innocent Muslims.

So paying bribes to get the system moving and working is wrong but paying dollars to kill Muslims is not?

If overseas Pakistanis are so pious and honest that they refuse to return to Pakistan because they don’t want to pay bribes, how come they are comfortable with the fact that their tax money is used to kill Muslims?

And the positive usage of their tax money does not justify the above.

As I said, they are not fooling anyone with the bribes and corruption excuse drama, just like they didn’t fool anyone when they previously claimed that they cannot come back to Pakistan because the leaders are dishonest and corrupt.

Imran Khan has been PM for 2.5 years and they claim he is honest and incorruptible, but they are still not coming back.

I agree, you have to live within the system. That is my point. When you live in Pakistan you have to give bribes; when you live in USA your tax money is used to bomb Muslims. It is what it is.

However, when overseas Pakistanis give lectures on morality and honesty and come up with lame excuses to justify why they cannot come back to Pakistan, they will be called out on their double-standards and hypocrisy.

If they openly admit that their patriotism is a sham and they don’t want to return simply because they don’t care enough and are happy to be where they are, no one will criticize them.

 

[Giannis]

People don’t just leave for quality of living though

Most of the immigrants are not leading life of luxuries in the west. And obviously they are still likely to prefer that because most of them came from rural pinds so for them it is still a step up compared to their option back home.

But for people coming from upper class in Lahore, Karachi, Islamabad and other big cities; more often than not they will have a more luxurious life in Pakistan unless they manage to make it big in the west which is obv not a guarantee.

I live in the US, I don't know what you mean by pind. Most people here are from big cities, a lot of them either from old money while many other from middle class families, I have relatives in Pakistan from both classes - the super rich and powerful with positions in government/military and the regular middle class Pakistani slaving away at some bank or firm in Karachi or Lahore.

The fact is that there is a much higher quality of living here in the west than there is in Pakistan and it doesn't matter how wealthy your family was back home, there's stuff money can't buy like clean air, clean water running through our faucets, good infrastructure like freeways, airports, trains, on top of that there's just so much more to do in America; I don't see what Pakistan has to offer in terms of recreation unless you live in the north close to the mountains. If you've lived in America, you would know there's just so much more to do, places to see and go, it's multicutural and vibrant - Pakistan is honestly just boring but I'm sure things may improve in the future but to get at the US and Canada's level it's going to take generations, so lets not be disingenius and act like Pakistan is a great place to live even for the rich and powerful - the Pakistani elite literally chooses to vacation in Europe and Dubai and send their kids to study in America, even they know that the quality of education and recreation is superior in the west. I don't see Pakistan rank anyhwere on those best quality of living indexes, if anything I believe Karachi was ranked one of the most unlivable cities in the world and Lahore one of the most polluted.

 

[Mamoon]

I live in the US, I don't know what you mean by pind. Most people here are from big cities, a lot of them either from old money while many other from middle class families, I have relatives in Pakistan from both classes - the super rich and powerful with positions in government/military and the regular middle class Pakistani slaving away at some bank or firm in Karachi or Lahore.

The fact is that there is a much higher quality of living here in the west than there is in Pakistan and it doesn't matter how wealthy your family was back home, there's stuff money can't buy like clean air, clean water running through our faucets, good infrastructure like freeways, airports, trains, on top of that there's just so much more to do in America; I don't see what Pakistan has to offer in terms of recreation unless you live in the north close to the mountains. If you've lived in America, you would know there's just so much more to do, places to see and go, it's multicutural and vibrant - Pakistan is honestly just boring but I'm sure things may improve in the future but to get at the US and Canada's level it's going to take generations, so lets not be disingenius and act like Pakistan is a great place to live even for the rich and powerful - the Pakistani elite literally chooses to vacation in Europe and Dubai and send their kids to study in America, even they know that the quality of education and recreation is superior in the west. I don't see Pakistan rank anyhwere on those best quality of living indexes, if anything I believe Karachi was ranked one of the most unlivable cities in the world and Lahore one of the most polluted.

Of course Pakistan doesn’t have much compared to first world countries, but it also depends on your interests.

Not everyone is into northern areas stuff. The obsession of whites with northern areas of Pakistan is funny. They assume everyone is an adrenaline junkie like them.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

But I don’t consider giving bribes a problem and neither do I care where my tax money goes. I only care about my family and my personal well-being. I will do whatever I can that is best for us.

However, overseas Pakistanis are the ones lecturing on morality and honesty. They give this lame excuse now (since the previous excuse of not having an honest leader doesn’t work anymore )) that they don’t want to pay bribes in Pakistan which is why they don’t want to comeback,

No one wants to pay taxes or bribes voluntarily. Even in the west if we were given a choice we would definitely keep the money if there was some way to do it without getting punished for it. However, it is a lot harder to cheat the govt here because there is documentation and procedures in place to make sure everybody pays their taxes.

We don't like paying these taxes, but actually they are the funds which pay for good roads, clean water, effective sewage system and all the other public services which separate the third world from the countries worth living in.

People are innately selfish as you quite eloquently describe in your post, but we westerners have found a way to make them accountable to a greater cause such as nationalism and patriotism which you say you don't believe in. Fine, but then don't whinge about the conditions which that attitude has brought upon you.

 

[Bewal Express]

But I don’t consider giving bribes a problem and neither do I care where my tax money goes. I only care about my family and my personal well-being. I will do whatever I can that is best for us.

However, overseas Pakistanis are the ones lecturing on morality and honesty. They give this lame excuse now (since the previous excuse of not having an honest leader doesn’t work anymore )) that they don’t want to pay bribes in Pakistan which is why they don’t want to comeback,

but hysterically enough, they don’t have a problem with the fact that their tax money is used to kill innocent Muslims.

So paying bribes to get the system moving and working is wrong but paying dollars to kill Muslims is not?

If overseas Pakistanis are so pious and honest that they refuse to return to Pakistan because they don’t want to pay bribes, how come they are comfortable with the fact that their tax money is used to kill Muslims?

And the positive usage of their tax money does not justify the above.

As I said, they are not fooling anyone with the bribes and corruption excuse drama, just like they didn’t fool anyone when they previously claimed that they cannot come back to Pakistan because the leaders are dishonest and corrupt.

Imran Khan has been PM for 2.5 years and they claim he is honest and incorruptible, but they are still not coming back.

I agree, you have to live within the system. That is my point. When you live in Pakistan you have to give bribes; when you live in USA your tax money is used to bomb Muslims. It is what it is.

However, when overseas Pakistanis give lectures on morality and honesty and come up with lame excuses to justify why they cannot come back to Pakistan, they will be called out on their double-standards and hypocrisy.

If they openly admit that their patriotism is a sham and they don’t want to return simply because they don’t care enough and are happy to be where they are, no one will criticize them.

Where do you think the interest on the $100bn borrowed goes? Where did those billions come from? This shows the stupidity of your argument

 

[moghul]

It not possible to move back if you're married with school going children .

 

[Colorblind Genius]

But I don’t love Pakistan and I am not patriotic. I have said it many many times. The only reason I am in Pakistan is because my parents and assets are here.

I wish my father would have moved to the UK like his brother and cousins in the 80s when he had the chance.

If I had a choice, Pakistan would be the last country that I would have chosen for myself and my future generations.

I consider myself very unlucky to be born in this country.

However, I am not the one giving lectures on patriotism and morality to others. I don’t believe in patriotism and nationalism. It is all nonsense.

The issue when overseas Pakistanis give lectures on patriotism to Pakistanis living in Pakistan, and then they come up with the lamest excuses of why they cannot come back to Pakistan.

Why not simply admit that you don’t love and care about Pakistan enough to comeback? After all, it is the real reason why overseas Pakistanis are not interested in coming back.

It is better to admit that you don’t care about Pakistan (like I do) than to do what overseas Pakistanis do, i.e. show fake patriotism over the Internet and then make a million lame excuses when you ask them to come back to Pakistan if the love the country so much and are so patriotic.

But I don’t consider giving bribes a problem and neither do I care where my tax money goes. I only care about my family and my personal well-being. I will do whatever I can that is best for us.

However, overseas Pakistanis are the ones lecturing on morality and honesty. They give this lame excuse now (since the previous excuse of not having an honest leader doesn’t work anymore )) that they don’t want to pay bribes in Pakistan which is why they don’t want to comeback,

but hysterically enough, they don’t have a problem with the fact that their tax money is used to kill innocent Muslims.

So paying bribes to get the system moving and working is wrong but paying dollars to kill Muslims is not?

If overseas Pakistanis are so pious and honest that they refuse to return to Pakistan because they don’t want to pay bribes, how come they are comfortable with the fact that their tax money is used to kill Muslims?

And the positive usage of their tax money does not justify the above.

As I said, they are not fooling anyone with the bribes and corruption excuse drama, just like they didn’t fool anyone when they previously claimed that they cannot come back to Pakistan because the leaders are dishonest and corrupt.

Imran Khan has been PM for 2.5 years and they claim he is honest and incorruptible, but they are still not coming back.

I agree, you have to live within the system. That is my point. When you live in Pakistan you have to give bribes; when you live in USA your tax money is used to bomb Muslims. It is what it is.

However, when overseas Pakistanis give lectures on morality and honesty and come up with lame excuses to justify why they cannot come back to Pakistan, they will be called out on their double-standards and hypocrisy.

If they openly admit that their patriotism is a sham and they don’t want to return simply because they don’t care enough and are happy to be where they are, no one will criticize them.

I didn't read the whole schmear but I guess this does it, no?

I don't think anyone gave or received any "Lecture on patriotism" in this thread but sure enough, next time when your relatives abroad, give you a "lecture" that you complained about, then you can start blabbering with the same rhetoric.

Tell them, "Just as you've got your assets accumulated in Europe, and you have your family and kids AND your parents with you in Europe, and hence you can't move back to Pakistan to prove your patriotism, I have my assets accumulated in Pakistan and I have my parents in Pakistan, and hence I cannot leave this country to prove my "unpatriotism" (for the lack of a better term).

simple enough.

 

[rockyboy2018]

Allah Allah ker kay visa lega hai Pakistani passport per! And you are talking about moving back to Pakistan. After watching German women, I do not think, I will ever try to see a Pakistani lady. Having said that, I never left Pakistan because I hate Pakistan or like that I have spent the larger portion of my life over there - It is just that I do not like the attitude of normal citizens over there. Every shop vendor every person does not know what privacy is like - if you do not work they have a problem, if you do not pray they will decide heaven or hell for you. And, then, corruption is everywhere, from a small shop vendor all the way to politicians. To show my loyalty to Pakistan - I will never pick up any foreign citizenship more so because that is still my motherland. The kind of racism I face all the time from locals over here in Germany I do not have an affinity to the foreign passport. Thanks to almighty Allah - I have seen pretty much half the world on my Pakistani passport.

Well- Mamoon- can you answer one question? Don't you think the financial aid Pakistan gets from the USA- isn't it taxpayers' money? I mean, money does not grow on trees even in the USA. In my opinion, you are simplifying reality to an extent.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

It not possible to move back if you're married with school going children .

Why not? Why can people who are married in Pakistan with children move to the US, but not the other way around? And there are people with children who have moved back to Pakistan from US.

 

[aloo paratha]

Why would anyone want to move from a first world country to a third world country? Family might be the only reason.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

Why would anyone want to move from a first world country to a third world country? Family might be the only reason.

Might want to live in a Muslim country, want to preserve their culture, can live like a King with the money they have saved in the west. Just some reasons.

 

[Mamoon]

British Pakistanis and British Muslims in general funded the killings of innocent Muslims with their tax money. They clearly have no conscience.

Why would they make a big deal about this? They clearly don’t care about the image of Islam and the well-being of Muslims beyond offering convenient lip-service.

 

[Mamoon]

No immigrant minority community should think the way some of brit pakistanis think. If the majority community pushes something in real earnest there is little the other side can do. Why are muslims or hindus or sikhs etc migrating from Asia to Western nations? Because the natives of these nations have created a society and structure that's far more advanced than yours. The rights these people beat their chest are given by the laws the natives designed.

The day you are a danger to their order, they will make sure you fall in line. Those who create also know how to run and protect the system.

Numerous EU countries have banned various religious symbols. What could anyone do?

These overseas Pakistanis are only good for useless and convenient boycotts. They cannot walk the talk.

They will still live in UK/Europe and take advantage of their first world living standards while making statements on social media and doing useless boycotts that make no impact.

That is why these governments do not take them seriously because they know they cannot do anything.

None of them have the courage to leave their adopted countries and return to Pakistan.

 

[Technics 1210]

British Pakistanis and British Muslims in general funded the killings of innocent Muslims with their tax money. They clearly have no conscience.

Why would they make a big deal about this? They clearly don’t care about the image of Islam and the well-being of Muslims beyond offering convenient lip-service.

You really are scraping the bottom of the barrel.

Every tax payer in the west 'funds the killing of innocent people'. The truth is we pay taxes in the West but have no control on how the government spends these taxes.

Atleast the majority of the tax we pay in the West is spent on good causes such has public services, infrastructure, education, and even foreign aid.

 

[Mamoon]

You really are scraping the bottom of the barrel.

Every tax payer in the west 'funds the killing of innocent people'. The truth is we pay taxes in the West but have no control on how the government spends these taxes.

Atleast the majority of the tax we pay in the West is spent on good causes such has public services, infrastructure, education, and even foreign aid.

You have no control on how the government spends your tax money but you do have control over whether you live in the West or not. You know, you can always come back to Pakistan, your real country.

However, who cares about Muslims getting killed on your tax money when you get to enjoy the opportunities and privileges of living in the first world.

Living in western countries is better for you and your families and that is why you are not interested in relocating back to Pakistan.

That is why you make a million excuses and justifications when you are asked to return to Pakistan.

As a result, the overseas Pakistanis should not give lectures on morality and honor to anyone. They themselves don’t possess these virtues and they fail when they are put to test.

Their pseudo concern for Islam and Muslims and even for Pakistan is subjected to their convenience. If it conflates with their personal interests, then they don’t care about Islam or Pakistan.

Is there anything wrong it it? No, but the only problem is when these overseas Pakistanis adopt a holier-than-thou attitude to compensate for the guilt that they carry because of their hypocrisy and double-standards.

 

[Stewie]

You have no control on how the government spends your tax money but you do have control over whether you live in the West or not. You know, you can always come back to Pakistan, your real country.

However, who cares about Muslims getting killed on your tax money when you get to enjoy the opportunities and privileges of living in the first world.

Living in western countries is better for you and your families and that is why you are not interested in relocating back to Pakistan.

That is why you make a million excuses and justifications when you are asked to return to Pakistan.

As a result, the overseas Pakistanis should not give lectures on morality and honor to anyone. They themselves don’t possess these virtues and they fail when they are put to test.

Their pseudo concern for Islam and Muslims and even for Pakistan is subjected to their convenience. If it conflates with their personal interests, then they don’t care about Islam or Pakistan.

Is there anything wrong it it? No, but the only problem is when these overseas Pakistanis adopt a holier-than-thou attitude to compensate for the guilt that they carry because of their hypocrisy and double-standards.

You sound like a bitter bitter individual. So you are labeling all the American Pakistanis as hypocrites just because they want to defend Muslims or their faith?

Are you familiar with the concept of generalization and stereotyping?

 

[shaykh]

You have no control on how the government spends your tax money but you do have control over whether you live in the West or not. You know, you can always come back to Pakistan, your real country.

However, who cares about Muslims getting killed on your tax money when you get to enjoy the opportunities and privileges of living in the first world.

Living in western countries is better for you and your families and that is why you are not interested in relocating back to Pakistan.

That is why you make a million excuses and justifications when you are asked to return to Pakistan.

As a result, the overseas Pakistanis should not give lectures on morality and honor to anyone. They themselves don’t possess these virtues and they fail when they are put to test.

Their pseudo concern for Islam and Muslims and even for Pakistan is subjected to their convenience. If it conflates with their personal interests, then they don’t care about Islam or Pakistan.

Is there anything wrong it it? No, but the only problem is when these overseas Pakistanis adopt a holier-than-thou attitude to compensate for the guilt that they carry because of their hypocrisy and double-standards.

What a bizarre rant ...

Do you want a medal for staying in Pakistan...

Some Pakistanis on the forum who live in Pakistan seem to have the same transnational concerns that some of the ones in the UK do...and also seem just as prone to believing conspiracy theories...

The tax argument is weak...I presume you are one of the ones who doesn’t pay tax in Pakistan then?...and you would if you agreed with the behaviour of your government...you don’t seem too impressed with Pakistan so what is stopping you from emigrating to somewhere you find more agreeable?...

Also for second and third generation Pakistani’s some may see Pakistan as their ‘real’ country...some see Britain as their real country...so considering they are born in the UK where exactly are you proposing they ‘return’ to?’...

 

[Bigboii]

You sound like a bitter bitter individual. So you are labeling all the American Pakistanis as hypocrites just because they want to defend Muslims or their faith?

Are you familiar with the concept of generalization and stereotyping?

On top of that

Ok so why should we go back to Pakistan when they're doing the exact same killings of muslims what moral superiority would that give me?

Whatever concern is about the Prophet PBUH and his insult (which I believe should be allowed and handled through diolague)

Don't care who is doing what to muslims in some remote part of the world could care less



My concern is about Prophet PBUH and no one can take my right away from me to do whatever I see fit to counter the wrong narrative

"Their pseudo concern for Islam and Muslims and even for Pakistan is subjected to their convenience. If it conflates with their personal interests, then they don’t care about Islam or Pakistan"

Here he is claiming we don't care about Islam cause we choose to live in the west
So judging us as muslims...

 

[Mamoon]

What a bizarre rant ...

Do you want a medal for staying in Pakistan...

Some Pakistanis on the forum who live in Pakistan seem to have the same transnational concerns that some of the ones in the UK do...and also seem just as prone to believing conspiracy theories...

The tax argument is weak...I presume you are one of the ones who doesn’t pay tax in Pakistan then?...and you would if you agreed with the behaviour of your government...you don’t seem too impressed with Pakistan so what is stopping you from emigrating to somewhere you find more agreeable?...

Also for second and third generation Pakistani’s some may see Pakistan as their ‘real’ country...some see Britain as their real country...so considering they are born in the UK where exactly are you proposing they ‘return’ to?’...

My father served in taxation. This argument that people should not pay taxes because the government is corrupt is a joke.

Tax evasion has been one of the major roadblocks for Pakistan’s development since its inception.

By refusing to pay taxes, you are simply making things worse and contributing to even less development.

I don’t want a medal for staying in Pakistan and I am not doing it for any patriotic reasons or because I love Pakistan. I am here because my immediately family and assets are here.

If I didn’t have family and wealth in Pakistan, I wouldn’t wish to spend a second in this country.

However, what I don’t want is lectures from overseas Pakistanis who act moral and patriotic over the Internet but when their virtues are tested, they fail.

They cannot lecture others when they are paying taxes to western governments who use their tax money to bomb Muslims. When they do it their hypocrisy will be called out and when that happens they start crying.

 

[Mamoon]

You sound like a bitter bitter individual. So you are labeling all the American Pakistanis as hypocrites just because they want to defend Muslims or their faith?

Are you familiar with the concept of generalization and stereotyping?

Bitter because I pointed out an uncomfortable truth.

If American Pakistanis really care about defending Muslims and Islam, why did they not leave America when Bush kicked off the WoT and killed millions of innocent Muslims?

As I said, this whole drama of caring about Islam and Muslims is just an act. People only care to the extent where it doesn’t harm them and their loved ones.

They will make noise on social media and do some useless boycotts here and there but they will fail to walk the talk because defending Muslim and Islam is not important when it comes to enjoying the opportunities and privileges of living in the U.S.

This whole act is based on convenience. If it is convenient they will stand up for Muslims and Islam and if it is not convenient they will not.

Hence, they are in no position to morally police others and give lectures when they themselves no credibility. When they do it their double-standards will be called out.

 

[street cricketer]

Indians and Pakistanis are always at each other's throats but one common thing I've observed between overseas Indians and overseas Pakistanis is that they would be the first to protest any discriminatory policy against them as minorities in the west and would "generally" lean towards the left when it comes to supporting parties but would be the most staunch supporters of right wing policies and governments in their own countries of origin without a hint of care for the minorities living there.

 

[IndoorCricket]

Overseas desis are out of touch with ground realities of their countries to be honest.

 

[Technics 1210]

My father served in taxation. This argument that people should not pay taxes because the government is corrupt is a joke.

Tax evasion has been one of the major roadblocks for Pakistan’s development since its inception.

By refusing to pay taxes, you are simply making things worse and contributing to even less development.

I don’t want a medal for staying in Pakistan and I am not doing it for any patriotic reasons or because I love Pakistan. I am here because my immediately family and assets are here.

If I didn’t have family and wealth in Pakistan, I wouldn’t wish to spend a second in this country.

However, what I don’t want is lectures from overseas Pakistanis who act moral and patriotic over the Internet but when their virtues are tested, they fail.

They cannot lecture others when they are paying taxes to western governments who use their tax money to bomb Muslims. When they do it their hypocrisy will be called out and when that happens they start crying.

Nice web of words.

Simple question, when was the last time you paid tax on your income in Pakistan?

Western taxpayers can lecture the likes of tax evaders.

Lets say you do bail Pakistan, which country would you head off too? Any country in the West would mean your 'taxes' would fund a missile somewhere, so where would you go? Let me guess, India?

 

[Yossarian]

Lot of us who live outside Pakistan - some due to studies, others have migrated, some were born outside etc

Do you have a timeframe in mind to move back to Pakistan?

Yes. Never.
Lived in the UK from a very young age. Grew up, studied and working in the UK. Parents buried in the UK. My children born in the UK, growing up in the UK, and unless moving away due to better job opportunities elsewhere, will remain in the UK, and will bring up their own families in the UK, and eventually bury me in the UK (so they can visit my grave, just as I visit my parents graves).

UK is my home. Pakistan is just another country I go to visit now and then.

 

[Mamoon]

Nice web of words.

Simple question, when was the last time you paid tax on your income in Pakistan?

Western taxpayers can lecture the likes of tax evaders.

Lets say you do bail Pakistan, which country would you head off too? Any country in the West would mean your 'taxes' would fund a missile somewhere, so where would you go? Let me guess, India?

I pay my taxes. You are free to believe that I don’t, but that is not my problem. I cannot prove to you that I do and you cannot prove that I don’t.

I have no intention of leaving Pakistan but if I do, I will have no problem with my tax money contributing to bombing people I don’t know in countries I don’t care about it.

I don’t consider myself very high on the morality scale and neither am I preachy. Like everyone else including you, I try to do the right thing as long as it doesn’t conflate with my personal interests.

So my morality like yours and everyone else’s is subject to convenience.

The issue is not with overseas Pakistanis helping their governments bomb Muslims; the issue is when they thump their chests over how moral and patriotic they are and how much they care about Muslims and Islam.

 

[Technics 1210]

I pay my taxes. You are free to believe that I don’t, but that is not my problem. I cannot prove to you that I do and you cannot prove that I don’t.

I have no intention of leaving Pakistan but if I do, I will have no problem with my tax money contributing to bombing people I don’t know in countries I don’t care about it.

I don’t consider myself very high on the morality scale and neither am I preachy. Like everyone else including you, I try to do the right thing as long as it doesn’t conflate with my personal interests.

So my morality like yours and everyone else’s is subject to convenience.

The issue is not with overseas Pakistanis helping their governments bomb Muslims; the issue is when they thump their chests over how moral and patriotic they are and how much they care about Muslims and Islam.

So let me get this straight - overseas Pakistanis cannot be patriotic or have morals because we pay taxes? Yeah, got it.

You're just nitpicking now with this taxes argument that it's riddiculous. Plus you've admitted you are a hypocrit above by saying you would do the same (pay your taxes to fund bombing people) if you had a chance to leave Pakistan.

Pretty sure you once said you are jealous of Pakistanis living in the West; I see nothing has changed.

 

[Stewie]

Bitter because I pointed out an uncomfortable truth.

If American Pakistanis really care about defending Muslims and Islam, why did they not leave America when Bush kicked off the WoT and killed millions of innocent Muslims?

As I said, this whole drama of caring about Islam and Muslims is just an act. People only care to the extent where it doesn’t harm them and their loved ones.

They will make noise on social media and do some useless boycotts here and there but they will fail to walk the talk because defending Muslim and Islam is not important when it comes to enjoying the opportunities and privileges of living in the U.S.

This whole act is based on convenience. If it is convenient they will stand up for Muslims and Islam and if it is not convenient they will not.

Hence, they are in no position to morally police others and give lectures when they themselves no credibility. When they do it their double-standards will be called out.

I can write books in response to this nonsense. But I’ll just ask you this. Are ANY Muslim countries in the world truly Muslim? When your basic rights as human beings are not even met, security of life and property is not guaranteed, why would you prefer it over a society where it is?

Remember the discussion here is about people’s rights as Muslims, regardless of which country they are in. This discussion is not about the merits and demerits of a so called Muslim government... but people .. wherever they are..

 

[Adil_94]

I wouldnt move back no. At best just go for a holiday and even then to the major cities not the village. My dad has built a huge mansion there and has gotten into a really messy legal battle with some relatives who are saying that it encroaches on their land. He's in Pakistan trying to sort it and it could take months. But even if its sorted theres always stories of people usurping houses overseas people have built in Pakistan and i wouldnt be surprised if that occured.

My dads village has a very high dependancy culture too. People who are your far relatives or not even related will come and ask for money and everyone there has a relative either in the UK or working in the Gulf as a blue collar labourer. A lot of youth esp boys have no intention of education just hoping a rishta comes their way in the UK or last resort they will go to the Gulf.

So living there u would have to deal with people asking for money always.

Then if i was married for wife n daughters living in that village mahol would be like hell for them even going into towns n cities u get the guys openly staring at women like theyve never seen them before. One of the reasons my sister doesnt wanna go back.

As much as theres corruption in the UK too esp at the upper echelons. Theres a better structure in place here and more accountability.

I think living in Pak as an outsider u would get ripped off left right n centre.

Also the older i get i do feel more British as well the childhood memories of holidays in Pakistan carefree playing in the sun fade away when as an adult u realise people see u as an ATM or a rishta n thats it.

 

[Mamoon]

I can write books in response to this nonsense. But I’ll just ask you this. Are ANY Muslim countries in the world truly Muslim? When your basic rights as human beings are not even met, security of life and property is not guaranteed, why would you prefer it over a society where it is?

Remember the discussion here is about people’s rights as Muslims, regardless of which country they are in. This discussion is not about the merits and demerits of a so called Muslim government... but people .. wherever they are..

This has nothing to do with the point of discussion. You are just doing aye, baye, shaye because you want to sidestep the fact that Pakistani Muslims have no right to give lectures on morality when they are funding the killings of innocent Muslims with their tax money. They have blood on their hands.

It has nothing to do with whether Muslim countries are truly Muslim or not. That is a completely different debate altogether.

 

[Mamoon]

So let me get this straight - overseas Pakistanis cannot be patriotic or have morals because we pay taxes? Yeah, got it.

You're just nitpicking now with this taxes argument that it's riddiculous. Plus you've admitted you are a hypocrit above by saying you would do the same (pay your taxes to fund bombing people) if you had a chance to leave Pakistan.

Pretty sure you once said you are jealous of Pakistanis living in the West; I see nothing has changed.

It is not nitpicking. It is an uncomfortable fact that preachy and self-appointed moralists among the overseas Pakistani contingent want to shy away from.

I have no problem with being called a hypocrite as long as you admit that overseas Pakistanis are hypocrites as well and their so-called concern for Muslims and Islam is just an act. An act subjected to their convenience.

Well even if you don’t admit it, it will not change the reality.

 

[ElRaja]

i don't see myself ever going back. nothing against the country but its not my home, and i don't feel i belong there when i do go (admittedly infrequently).

this tends to be a massive bone of contention within the family, as my parents spent the majority of their lives in pak, and have assets there, which i have said, much to my parents chagrin, serve no purpose owing to me having no desire to ever go back.

Indians and Pakistanis are always at each other's throats but one common thing I've observed between overseas Indians and overseas Pakistanis is that they would be the first to protest any discriminatory policy against them as minorities in the west and would "generally" lean towards the left when it comes to supporting parties but would be the most staunch supporters of right wing policies and governments in their own countries of origin without a hint of care for the minorities living there.

not sure if this is true in the UK from what ive seen. Britpak communitiy gets it rougher than other asians, whether its being labelled as terrorists, honour killers, groomers, whatever, and nearly all of the non pakistani asian diaspora make it a point to not be confused with pakistanis in my experieince. obviously growing up with diff groups theres far less animosity, but neither is there any exceptional mutual support.

furthermore in the uk, a lot of indians i know support right wing parties, and theres nothing wrong with this. but contrary to the image you paint i believe given the size of the respective communities people dont identify with a monolithic asian identity, id go further to say that even the indian community here is split into sikhs, gujratis and other indians, with each group predominantly keeping to their own.

pakistanis, bengalis and indian muslims tend to have some social overlap though, especially in London.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Yes. Never.
Lived in the UK from a very young age. Grew up, studied and working in the UK. Parents buried in the UK. My children born in the UK, growing up in the UK, and unless moving away due to better job opportunities elsewhere, will remain in the UK, and will bring up their own families in the UK, and eventually bury me in the UK (so they can visit my grave, just as I visit my parents graves).

UK is my home. Pakistan is just another country I go to visit now and then.

I am in the same boat more or less, although I have been recently and really enjoyed it, but more as a holiday than anything else, same as if I went to Spain or Tunisia. I think this question is more relevant to genuine overseas Pakistanis who have left their homeland to work abroad rather than us Brits of Pakistani heritage.

 

[Stewie]

This has nothing to do with the point of discussion. You are just doing aye, baye, shaye because you want to sidestep the fact that Pakistani Muslims have no right to give lectures on morality when they are funding the killings of innocent Muslims with their tax money. They have blood on their hands.

It has nothing to do with whether Muslim countries are truly Muslim or not. That is a completely different debate altogether.

Oh really? I guess when it fits your narrative. I wonder what do you think of millions of US dollars of aid Pakistan got from US in return for US droning their own citizens. I don’t recall Pakistanis standing up asking for those funds to be returned.

 

[Major]

Overseas Pakistani's shouldnt have a say in our Politics atleast as it not only concerns them but they have 0 knowledge the problems that local faces.

I see people here always talking of high praises of the current govt based on some news article they read on the express tribune or the news.

 

[Bigboii]

Overseas Pakistani's shouldnt have a say in our Politics atleast as it not only concerns them but they have 0 knowledge the problems that local faces.

I see people here always talking of high praises of the current govt based on some news article they read on the express tribune or the news.

Agreed

We can talk about politics on forums or what not
But actual power should go to people who live there
Voting rights for overseas Pakistanis is a dumb and unfair move on people who actually live in Pakistan

 

[Bigboii]

Oh really? I guess when it fits your narrative. I wonder what do you think of millions of US dollars of aid Pakistan got from US in return for US droning their own citizens. I don’t recall Pakistanis standing up asking for those funds to be returned.

Our taxes are helping Pakistan too...

Time to move out of Pakistan to India, Afghanistan, Iran or something

 

[IndoorCricket]

Overseas Pakistani's shouldnt have a say in our Politics atleast as it not only concerns them but they have 0 knowledge the problems that local faces.

I see people here always talking of high praises of the current govt based on some news article they read on the express tribune or the news.

Exactly. This behavior is not only to overseas Pakistani's but also overseas Indians.

 

[Technics 1210]

It is not nitpicking. It is an uncomfortable fact that preachy and self-appointed moralists among the overseas Pakistani contingent want to shy away from.

I have no problem with being called a hypocrite as long as you admit that overseas Pakistanis are hypocrites as well and their so-called concern for Muslims and Islam is just an act. An act subjected to their convenience.

Well even if you don’t admit it, it will not change the reality.

Paying taxes and how its spent is not a choice. There's no alternative as all governments will spend some taxes on imoral/iffy causes.

Still, you are born and bred Pakistani, you hate Pakistan, you'd leave Pakistan if you had the opportunity, which I guess makes you a patriot right?

 

[Technics 1210]

Overseas Pakistani's shouldnt have a say in our Politics atleast as it not only concerns them but they have 0 knowledge the problems that local faces.

I see people here always talking of high praises of the current govt based on some news article they read on the express tribune or the news.

Actually we have a good idea how the current Pakistan government is doing because we get to see the international perception of Pakistan, because you idegineous Pakistanis have been doing a sterling job!

 

[Stewie]

Overseas Pakistani's shouldnt have a say in our Politics atleast as it not only concerns them but they have 0 knowledge the problems that local faces.

I see people here always talking of high praises of the current govt based on some news article they read on the express tribune or the news.

Only Pakistanis would say something like this. The whole world lobbies for support in the west, but Hod forbid if overseas Pakistanis want to do something or have a say.. all of a sudden we are unpatriotic, or undeserving or should keep our mouths shut.

We wouldn’t be speaking like this if the idiotic awam (which I admit I am still a part of) had not kept electing the same chors over and over and over again and helped bring disaster to our own country.

Abhi abhi kissi na kissi koneti mein ya to Bhutto zinda hai, ya Shareef waqai Shareef hai ya Altaf Bhai heaven sent savior hai.. ye nahi to Molana Diesel or Khadim Rizvi ke cheley mil jayein gay..

We are not really competing with the elite of the elite are we?

 

[Major]

Actually we have a good idea how the current Pakistan government is doing because we get to see the international perception of Pakistan, because you idegineous Pakistanis have been doing a sterling job!

International Perception?

International perception is that you get pink salt form the mountains of Himalayas.

In truth, the pink Salt comes from a salt range located in Kalar kahar next to Rawalpindi. The Himalayas are no where near here.

4 months back, international Covid was very to non existent in Pakistan based on international perception. Reality? The test cost Rs.7000 no one could afford it and people dont want to get themselves tested as it cost more to test than to heal.