Saeed
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Contact the PP Team
"Pakistan has given us nothing but lies and deceit, thinking of our leaders as fools" : Donald Trump
- Thread starter Abdullah719
- Start date
or this:
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...75000-indian-workers/articleshow/62334005.cms
which I am sure must be freaking them out internally considering there are about 4-6 sweat shop worker in India for every 1 H1b visa holder brought here by these outsourcing firms
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Wonderwoman
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Even Hitler had Jewish collaborators too.
Just because they have Indian ancestry does not automatically mean anything for India. Have you ever read about what the ideology of these people is or you are simply get enchanted whenever a white master gives a token appreciation to someone of the color brown.
IMMY69
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You do have a fair bit in common with Trump.
Your nationalism coupled with similar intelligence level means you’re a closed mind.
No point arguing with people like you.
Or perhaps it's someone who believes in conspiracy theories or lies that have been repeated so often? Feel free to tell us where these safe havens exist that are used to launch attack on US troops.
You need to cool the hyperbole. Suggesting that Trump is ready to send Indians to concentration camps to be exterminated only makes you look stupid.
Sure, you are welcome to look at everything through your extreme lenses. The world also has people who appreciate merit and do not think exclusively about skin color. I suppose to you, Indians being the CEOs of 2 of the 3 largest firms in the world (all 3 American) is also just "token".
It matters less to me. It is your country. If you don't fix it, you will suffer more than Indians will.
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https://www.dawn.com/news/1380537/u...n-against-pakistan-in-24-48-hours-white-house
A day after Washington confirmed suspending $255 million of military aid to Pakistan, the White House said that further action against Pakistan would be announced in the next 24-48 hours.
Addressing a daily press briefing on Wednesday, US Press Secretary Sarah Sanders said that the actions being taken against Islamabad by Washington are a follow-up to Trump's South Asia policy announced last year.
Also read: Pakistan's measured response to Trump's tweet is a step in the right direction
"The president is simply following through on a commitment that he made," she said, referring to Trump's speech in which he had accused Pakistan of "not fulfilling its obligations".
“We can no longer be silent about Pakistan's safe havens for terrorist organisations,” Trump had said in August last year, warning that vital aid could be cut.
"We know that Pakistan can do more to fight terrorism, and we want them to step up and do that," the press secretary said on Wednesday, adding that Trump feels Pakistan "is not doing enough" to combat terrorism.
She said that information on further action against Pakistan would be made available over the next couple of days.
"In terms of specific actions, I think you’ll see some more details come out on that in the next 24 to 48 hours," Sanders told the US media.
Worsening relations
The White House's move to suspend military aid on Tuesday has been seen as the first step to implementing President Donald Trump’s pledge to tighten economic restrictions on Pakistan.
Military aid to Islamabad was cut after Trump, in a tweet, accused Pakistan of of being a liar.
The tweet had come in the aftermath of an increasingly terse back-and-forth between Washington and Islamabad since Trump announced his administration's latest national security strategy.
Explore: 'Pakistan needs to improve its narrative': Politicians, analysts weigh in on Trump statement
During the announcement, the US president had been quick to remind Pakistan of its 'obligation' to help America "because it receives massive payments" from Washington every year.
"We have made clear to Pakistan that while we desire continued partnership, we must see decisive action against terrorist groups operating on their territory. And we make massive payments every year to Pakistan. They have to help," the US president had said.
A Pentagon report to the US Congress, released to the media on Dec 17, had said Washington would also take 'unilateral steps' in areas of divergence with Pakistan while expanding cooperation between the two countries where their interests converge.
Subsequently, US Vice President Mike Pence had, in a surprise visit to Afghanistan's Bagram airbase on Dec 22, warned that Trump has "put Pakistan on notice" in what was the harshest US warning to Islamabad since the beginning of the Afghan war over 16 years ago.
The Pakistan Army spokesman, Maj Gen Asif Ghafoor, had at a press conference last week asserted that the aid Pakistan received from the US was "reimbursement for support we gave to the coalition for its fight against Al Qaeda."
"Had we not supported the US and Afghanistan, they would never have been able to defeat Al Qaeda," he had said.
"The armed forces are working with friends and want to continue doing so, but there can be no compromise on our national honour. We do not want a conflict with our friends, but will ensure the security of Pakistan," he had added.
His briefing was considered perhaps the strongest-ever reaction from Islamabad since US functionaries began alluding to the possibility of unilateral action.
Hitting back at the US, the civilian-controlled Foreign Office (FO) had also warned against the "malicious campaign" being "used to trivialise Pakistan's achievements in the war against terrorism", and noted that "allies do not put each other on notice."
The FO had further complained that recent US statements are "at variance with the extensive conversations we [Islamabad] have had with the US administration".
A day after Washington confirmed suspending $255 million of military aid to Pakistan, the White House said that further action against Pakistan would be announced in the next 24-48 hours.
Addressing a daily press briefing on Wednesday, US Press Secretary Sarah Sanders said that the actions being taken against Islamabad by Washington are a follow-up to Trump's South Asia policy announced last year.
Also read: Pakistan's measured response to Trump's tweet is a step in the right direction
"The president is simply following through on a commitment that he made," she said, referring to Trump's speech in which he had accused Pakistan of "not fulfilling its obligations".
“We can no longer be silent about Pakistan's safe havens for terrorist organisations,” Trump had said in August last year, warning that vital aid could be cut.
"We know that Pakistan can do more to fight terrorism, and we want them to step up and do that," the press secretary said on Wednesday, adding that Trump feels Pakistan "is not doing enough" to combat terrorism.
She said that information on further action against Pakistan would be made available over the next couple of days.
"In terms of specific actions, I think you’ll see some more details come out on that in the next 24 to 48 hours," Sanders told the US media.
Worsening relations
The White House's move to suspend military aid on Tuesday has been seen as the first step to implementing President Donald Trump’s pledge to tighten economic restrictions on Pakistan.
Military aid to Islamabad was cut after Trump, in a tweet, accused Pakistan of of being a liar.
The tweet had come in the aftermath of an increasingly terse back-and-forth between Washington and Islamabad since Trump announced his administration's latest national security strategy.
Explore: 'Pakistan needs to improve its narrative': Politicians, analysts weigh in on Trump statement
During the announcement, the US president had been quick to remind Pakistan of its 'obligation' to help America "because it receives massive payments" from Washington every year.
"We have made clear to Pakistan that while we desire continued partnership, we must see decisive action against terrorist groups operating on their territory. And we make massive payments every year to Pakistan. They have to help," the US president had said.
A Pentagon report to the US Congress, released to the media on Dec 17, had said Washington would also take 'unilateral steps' in areas of divergence with Pakistan while expanding cooperation between the two countries where their interests converge.
Subsequently, US Vice President Mike Pence had, in a surprise visit to Afghanistan's Bagram airbase on Dec 22, warned that Trump has "put Pakistan on notice" in what was the harshest US warning to Islamabad since the beginning of the Afghan war over 16 years ago.
The Pakistan Army spokesman, Maj Gen Asif Ghafoor, had at a press conference last week asserted that the aid Pakistan received from the US was "reimbursement for support we gave to the coalition for its fight against Al Qaeda."
"Had we not supported the US and Afghanistan, they would never have been able to defeat Al Qaeda," he had said.
"The armed forces are working with friends and want to continue doing so, but there can be no compromise on our national honour. We do not want a conflict with our friends, but will ensure the security of Pakistan," he had added.
His briefing was considered perhaps the strongest-ever reaction from Islamabad since US functionaries began alluding to the possibility of unilateral action.
Hitting back at the US, the civilian-controlled Foreign Office (FO) had also warned against the "malicious campaign" being "used to trivialise Pakistan's achievements in the war against terrorism", and noted that "allies do not put each other on notice."
The FO had further complained that recent US statements are "at variance with the extensive conversations we [Islamabad] have had with the US administration".
Wonderwoman
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Where did i make any suggestion to that effect. Please enlighten me.
And as for lenses, I view the world with much more holistic point of view. Your arguments have simply veered to tangents when you are linking Microsoft and Google with Trump?
Since, you felt like attacking me rather than my views, I think I should return the favor.
You are a narrow minded Indian, whose only relationship with Pakistan is in terms of zero sum game. For you, any incident which is detrimental to Pakistan's well being is a victory, without any reason or logic as to what that incident might do to your own well being. You are one of those people whose mindset is simple, " As long as Pakistan loses, its my victory"
Just to quote Mahatma Gandhi, "an eye for an eye makes the world blind"
You, sir, are blind to reason.
Where did i make any suggestion to that effect. Please enlighten me.
I really need to explain this to you? Anyway, I will give it a shot. If you draw a parallel between Hiter/Jews and Trump/Indians, it follows that you are implying Trump will do to Indians what Hitler did to the Jews.
Rather hackneyed and honestly quite boring, bye.
the Great Khan
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Seems you have conveniently avoided the key points I made in the post above.
Lets get some things straight here so you cna debate further if you want:
a) The US is moving away from pakistan and wants to denuclearise us. Its tried everything from bribery to terrorism. Nothing has worked.
b) The US is seriously worried about losing the Asian continent to China and russia. It needs to maintain its presence in afghanistan while at the same time looking to neutuer Pakistan so that it can ultimatley deter China.
c) The Taliban is simply a name given to a number of anti government groups that are unified under a single command structure but who also have their own commanders. The west came up with the name to help their rules of engagement
d) 40% of afghanistan is out of kabuls hands. Hence it makes little tactical sense to remain in pakistan when you can hide amongst your own people and control the drug trade to buy weapons.
e) India trains the NDS and is co-ordinating operations from chabahar and the border areas. Their stated aim is to slow down the Pakistan economy, create strife and coninue the media war against the country. Terrorism is also a tool that will be used from time to time.
f) Afghanistan does not recognise the durand line as the international border but the rest of the world does hence their actions and demands are against international law.
g) India will lose out in the long term if it does not come out of its right wing fascist mentality. Riding the coat tails of the americans will only get you burnt as we have found out.
h) And finally the ISI and the PA will do whatever it takes to ensure we can defend our country from NDS/RAW/CIA backed terrorism, indian misadventures and Trumpian fantasies. With the problems in Iran, turkey and russia manifesting themselves the americans will fast face a situation where they will be strategically pushed into a corner in asia. India needs to make a choice, join their neighbours and friends (russians) or side with a declining superpower.
Romali_rotti
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Lol That was laughable indeed, if anything you would think the Indian muslims wouldve brought absolute hell on earth in India after the Babri Masjid destruction, but barring the few riots most muslims didn't even start any trouble/difficulties but instead went on with their lives....
To my Pakistani friends:
Your wish of wanting Indian muslims to cause hell on earth had India had Indian supported Jerusalem is just a fantasy/pipe dream, it wont happen.
Cpt. Rishwat
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Lol That was laughable indeed, if anything you would think the Indian muslims wouldve brought absolute hell on earth in India after the Babri Masjid destruction, but barring the few riots most muslims didn't even start any trouble/difficulties but instead went on with their lives....
To my Pakistani friends:
Your wish of wanting Indian muslims to cause hell on earth had India had Indian supported Jerusalem is just a fantasy/pipe dream, it wont happen.
Seems like our Indian friends have become embarrassed at being called out on cheering Trump from the sidelines and are now making up imaginary pipedreams for Pakistani posters and using these fake scenarios to discredit them.
No need my friends, if you don't have the will or the conviction to take action yourselves, no shame in being backing dancers to the Donald's tune. Imagine at as a Bollywood scene where Trump is the hero and you are the twenty scantily clad dancers cavorting around him.
Romali_rotti
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Cap,
I know you need to support your Arab masters no matter what, I get it, they started your religion so you have to show loyalty. However these Palestinian Arabs are not going to get Pakistan out of the mess it is in, they will contribute just about ZERO to your country... Arab vs Jew problem is not something the sub continental race of humans needs to get overly involved in
the Great Khan
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oops..I guess this is Pakistan's fault too..
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In what could worry thousands of Indian professionals working in the United States, the Department of Homeland Security is considering a proposal that would prevent the extension of H-1B visa, McClatchy’s DC Bureau reported. This could directly impact those working in US from keeping their visas while their green card applications stand pending. The proposal is being seen as an extension of President Donald Trump’s “Buy American, Hire American” initiative.
The proposal, being circulated in internal memos in the DHS department, aims to impose new restrictions to prevent abuse and misuse of H-1B visas. It also intends to end the provision of granting extension for those who already have a green card. The proposal also includes strengthening the definition of visa-dependent companies in terms of minimum salary and movement of talent in order to restrict the number of people coming to the US to work. Earlier, the Trump administration had also announced plans to revoke work eligibility for spouses of H-1B holders.
“The idea is to create a sort of ‘self-deportation’ of hundreds of thousands of Indian tech workers in the United States to open up those jobs for Americans,” a US source briefed by homeland security officials told McClatchy DC Bureau.
What is the H1-B visa programme?
The proposal is suggested to be an extension to the proposed US bill ‘Protect and Grow American Jobs’. Apart from prescribing higher minimum wages, the Bill places the onus on clients that they will certify that the visa holder is not displacing an existing employee for a tenure of 5-6 years.
Software body Nasscom has flagged its concerns over visa-related issues and has taken it up with Senators, Congressmen and the administration. “That formulation has conditions which are extremely onerous and makes it very difficult for people to not just get the visa but also on how they can be used,” R Chandrashekhar, President, National Association for Software and Services Companies (Nasscom) told PTI.
The H-1B visa an employment-based and non-immigrant visa category for temporary workers that allows the US companies to recruit foreign workers. The H-1B programme is not limited to those in the technology sector. In fact, it is open to a broad range of occupations, including architects, professors and even fashion models. Companies must affirm that the job requires a specialty skill that cannot be filled by a US worker.
But many of these skills happen to be in tech and as per the US Labor Department the top three occupations are computer systems analysts, application software developers and computer programmers — they account for half of the H-1B certifications.
The US allows up to 85,000 new H-1B visas each year with recipients being allowed to stay up to six years. Since demand tends to be higher, the government tops this up with an annual lottery. An estimated 70 per cent of these visas go to Indians – hired mostly by IT companies. The program however, faces criticism from the American workers. Many claim that H-1B visas are increasingly being abused and that locals are often laid off in exchange of foreign workers.
Earlier this year, Trump administration issued stern warning to companies against discriminating US workers by over-hiring H-1B visa holders. “This historic action declares that the policy of our government is to aggressively promote and use American-made goods and to ensure that American labor is hired to do the job. It’s America first, you better believe it,” Trump said in April when announcing the executive order.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In what could worry thousands of Indian professionals working in the United States, the Department of Homeland Security is considering a proposal that would prevent the extension of H-1B visa, McClatchy’s DC Bureau reported. This could directly impact those working in US from keeping their visas while their green card applications stand pending. The proposal is being seen as an extension of President Donald Trump’s “Buy American, Hire American” initiative.
The proposal, being circulated in internal memos in the DHS department, aims to impose new restrictions to prevent abuse and misuse of H-1B visas. It also intends to end the provision of granting extension for those who already have a green card. The proposal also includes strengthening the definition of visa-dependent companies in terms of minimum salary and movement of talent in order to restrict the number of people coming to the US to work. Earlier, the Trump administration had also announced plans to revoke work eligibility for spouses of H-1B holders.
“The idea is to create a sort of ‘self-deportation’ of hundreds of thousands of Indian tech workers in the United States to open up those jobs for Americans,” a US source briefed by homeland security officials told McClatchy DC Bureau.
What is the H1-B visa programme?
The proposal is suggested to be an extension to the proposed US bill ‘Protect and Grow American Jobs’. Apart from prescribing higher minimum wages, the Bill places the onus on clients that they will certify that the visa holder is not displacing an existing employee for a tenure of 5-6 years.
Software body Nasscom has flagged its concerns over visa-related issues and has taken it up with Senators, Congressmen and the administration. “That formulation has conditions which are extremely onerous and makes it very difficult for people to not just get the visa but also on how they can be used,” R Chandrashekhar, President, National Association for Software and Services Companies (Nasscom) told PTI.
The H-1B visa an employment-based and non-immigrant visa category for temporary workers that allows the US companies to recruit foreign workers. The H-1B programme is not limited to those in the technology sector. In fact, it is open to a broad range of occupations, including architects, professors and even fashion models. Companies must affirm that the job requires a specialty skill that cannot be filled by a US worker.
But many of these skills happen to be in tech and as per the US Labor Department the top three occupations are computer systems analysts, application software developers and computer programmers — they account for half of the H-1B certifications.
The US allows up to 85,000 new H-1B visas each year with recipients being allowed to stay up to six years. Since demand tends to be higher, the government tops this up with an annual lottery. An estimated 70 per cent of these visas go to Indians – hired mostly by IT companies. The program however, faces criticism from the American workers. Many claim that H-1B visas are increasingly being abused and that locals are often laid off in exchange of foreign workers.
Earlier this year, Trump administration issued stern warning to companies against discriminating US workers by over-hiring H-1B visa holders. “This historic action declares that the policy of our government is to aggressively promote and use American-made goods and to ensure that American labor is hired to do the job. It’s America first, you better believe it,” Trump said in April when announcing the executive order.
Cpt. Rishwat
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Cap,
I know you need to support your Arab masters no matter what, I get it, they started your religion so you have to show loyalty. However these Palestinian Arabs are not going to get Pakistan out of the mess it is in, they will contribute just about ZERO to your country... Arab vs Jew problem is not something the sub continental race of humans needs to get overly involved in
I agree, that's why you rarely see me contributing much in these Israel/Palestine debates. But what's your excuse? Why do you guys have to cavort like Bollywood dance girls whenever Trump says something on the same topic? It's almost like you are defined by every religion or culture except your own. Know what I mean....Ronny?
PS. I might be coming to Australia soon, how about we get together for a coffee? We can post about our meeting on here - I'll call the thread Jab We Met.
Abdullah719
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Trump is following through on his commitment, says White House after suspension of US aid to Pakistan
A day after Washington confirmed suspending $255 million of military aid to Pakistan, US Press Secretary Sarah Sanders said that the actions being taken against Islamabad are a follow-up to Donald Trump's South Asia policy announced last year.
"The president outlined a new strategy for Afghanistan and South Asia past year in August. At that time, he laid out [a policy] and said that Pakistan is not fulfilling its obligations," said Sanders during the White House press briefing on Tuesday.
"The President is simply following through on a commitment that he made [...] we know that Pakistan can do more to fight terrorism, and we want them to step up and do that."
“We can no longer be silent about Pakistan's safe havens for terrorist organisations,” Trump had said in August last year, warning at the time that vital aid could be cut.
The press secretary was pressed about the timing of Trump's tweet about Pakistan more than once during the briefing. When asked if there was any particular incident that prompted Monday's tweet, Sanders said: "This is something that the president has been following and has talked about back during August, when he laid out his Afghanistan and South Asia strategy. And this is something that the administration continues to watch on a daily basis — and I can’t go into any further detail beyond that."
Sanders told the press that further action against Pakistan — and other countries that did not vote with the United States on Jerusalem at the United Nations — would be announced in the next 24-48 hours.
https://www.dawn.com/news/1380537/t...-house-after-suspension-of-us-aid-to-pakistan
A day after Washington confirmed suspending $255 million of military aid to Pakistan, US Press Secretary Sarah Sanders said that the actions being taken against Islamabad are a follow-up to Donald Trump's South Asia policy announced last year.
"The president outlined a new strategy for Afghanistan and South Asia past year in August. At that time, he laid out [a policy] and said that Pakistan is not fulfilling its obligations," said Sanders during the White House press briefing on Tuesday.
"The President is simply following through on a commitment that he made [...] we know that Pakistan can do more to fight terrorism, and we want them to step up and do that."
“We can no longer be silent about Pakistan's safe havens for terrorist organisations,” Trump had said in August last year, warning at the time that vital aid could be cut.
The press secretary was pressed about the timing of Trump's tweet about Pakistan more than once during the briefing. When asked if there was any particular incident that prompted Monday's tweet, Sanders said: "This is something that the president has been following and has talked about back during August, when he laid out his Afghanistan and South Asia strategy. And this is something that the administration continues to watch on a daily basis — and I can’t go into any further detail beyond that."
Sanders told the press that further action against Pakistan — and other countries that did not vote with the United States on Jerusalem at the United Nations — would be announced in the next 24-48 hours.
https://www.dawn.com/news/1380537/t...-house-after-suspension-of-us-aid-to-pakistan
Romali_rotti
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I agree, that's why you rarely see me contributing much in these Israel/Palestine debates. But what's your excuse? Why do you guys have to cavort like Bollywood dance girls whenever Trump says something on the same topic? It's almost like you are defined by every religion or culture except your own. Know what I mean....Ronny?
What Trump says at times is favorable to India's interest, I got no issues with Pakistanis, however India has a whole does, due to security and vice versa. Hence they would praise Trump whenever they feel he speaks the Indian sentiment.
PS. I might be coming to Australia soon, how about we get together for a coffee? We can post about our meeting on here - I'll call the thread Jab We Met.
If you do come to Australia, yeah why not, we will meet, just for the heck of it and pure comedy. I am sure you will like the American in me more than the Indian
View attachment 77826
bold...
Says you ? So you are justifying that the Isi and army were so incompetent that the worlds most sought after person was hiding right under the army's nose. Let's not be naive here. It's a you said she said for convenience. The Us might have accepted what Pakistan said out of convenience too. For all we know Us might have been gathering intelligence since then to now to gather evidence on the contrary. I'm almost convinced that Trump and the Us intelligence have found something more damning but does not want to shed light on it for the fear of Pakistans army/Isi undoing that work. There's no way Trump just randomly picked on Pakistan starting the very first day of the new year.
Abdullah719
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">From the start I had opposed Pak becoming part of US-led so-called "War on Terror". Now, after suffering 70k dead, over $100 bn loss to economy, when we had nothing to do with 9/11, constant " do more" US taunts & after nation has been humiliated by Trump, GoP saying the same.</p>— Imran Khan (@ImranKhanPTI) <a href="https://twitter.com/ImranKhanPTI/status/948432069797048320?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 3, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
Braveheart
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I wonder if this Woman is complicit in stoking up the hatred towards Pakistan and Muslims.
http://www.hindustantimes.com/world...-team-trump/story-GCa40w7ofA8g5qeVkmlv7N.html
http://www.hindustantimes.com/world...-team-trump/story-GCa40w7ofA8g5qeVkmlv7N.html
Pakpak
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Probably. Every single Indian is there to stoke hatred against Pakistan. If Sadiq Khan was Indian there would be no way in hell he would ever think of visiting Pakistan. Amir Khan, boxer, went to India, imagine the abuse an Indian boxer would have received in return. Some years ago I used to argue against my own friends and family when they would say India considers us as enemy. But its very true, from the way that entire 1.5 billion nation behaves from its media to its trolls online.
The country simply cannot stand us and won't rest till our country is broken into pieces and ceases to exist. People like Joshila here will vouch for that thinking. Thank our nukes!
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Varun
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It's the media out here. They force feed the local population content that makes them despise Pakistan.
If it's of any consolation, I'm sure the Indian contingent here on Pakistan - me included - don't have any real problems with Pakistan or Pakistanis. We're a small minority though.
Pakpak
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I do not understand this. India is a massive economic powerhouse now, spoken in the same sentence as other powers in the world. Its doing outstanding in sports, has a big tourism industry and has a good image worldwide. Its media should be building towards even more success, yet all they can do is stoke hate against a economically half-failed country like ours? I can guarantee you one thing, whether you want to believe me or not is upto you, but if India did not react the way it does ie banning sports, kicking out TV stars, isolating us at every chance, then anytime there was any attack in India by anyone suspected to be Pakistani there would be outrage in Pakistan at anyone trying to sabotage good relations. Right now anytime India blames Pakistan the reaction in Pakistan is 'shrug, who cares, they hate us anyway'. You are beginning to see, even if minority ones but some atleast, voices saying Pakistan should reevaluate its Afghan policy and dump its previous allies for good. Which I agree with.
People always say look at the French and Germans who got over it, but I cannot see it happening here. Even if there is peace I can bet my bottom dollar both countries will simply find something else to squabble over.
Varun
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For the record, I agree with every word you say. Then again like I mentioned I am part of the minority, and the majority in both countries have tied a combination of finances, PR and social standing to throwing mud at the other country, even if Pakistanis do it to a lesser extent than Indians.
Here on PakPassion*
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Cpt. Rishwat
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That line I bolded is a myth propagated by both sides for their own purposes. My view is that the reality of Pakistan ceasing to exist probably scares India far more than the thought of getting nuked, which in reality will never happen. No Pakistan would mean a far bigger Islamic vote bloc in what would be left over as India. Ditto for Bangladesh, hence the desire for the fence by arch Indian patriot joshila bhai. Imagine if the Afghan border was an Indian problem rather than a Pakistani headache. Astaghfirullah! Or Hai Baghwan! Take your pick.
DW44
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This is by far the most level headed (i.e. free of jingoism and emotional nonsense) analysis of the episode I've come across so far (by a Pakistani):
Source: https://thediplomat.com/2018/01/trumps-tweet-has-done-pakistan-a-massive-favor/
This idiot has no control over what he says or when he says it. This could have been handled so much better by a more tactful person in his place but, as usual, another own goal. My kudos.
Source: https://thediplomat.com/2018/01/trumps-tweet-has-done-pakistan-a-massive-favor/
This idiot has no control over what he says or when he says it. This could have been handled so much better by a more tactful person in his place but, as usual, another own goal. My kudos.
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-partner="tweetdeck"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Pakistan?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Pakistan</a> has contributed and sacrificed the most in fighting international terrorism and it's security forces have carried out the largest counterterrorism operation anywhere in the world.<br>~Pakistan's permanent representative to the United Nations Maleeha Lodhi <a href="https://t.co/QpT2cWMhv9">pic.twitter.com/QpT2cWMhv9</a></p>— Govt of Pakistan (@pid_gov) <a href="https://twitter.com/pid_gov/status/948473872852111360?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 3, 2018</a></blockquote>
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Yes we can. As I said initially it will be very difficult but we'll survive over time and it will make us stronger. You are under estimating how much the American's need Pak as well. If Khawaja had not tweeted anything you'd be accusing him of doing nothing. We can't keep fighting America's dirty war in Afghanistan forever. Have already lost far more then what we have gained since the war began.
Pakistanian
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US aid doesn't make up nore than 1% of Pakistan's GDP, so yeah they can live without it.
Trump is a loose cannon and is considered a liability by most of his countrymen and his western allies. He is the definition of doing things randomly and without making any sense. This entire thing is a flash in the pan and mostly a waste of time. There are so many people taking this tweet seriously, yet Trumps' tweets are mostly used for entertainment purposes by American public and the media. He may be mentally ******** for all we know.
Anyway, what you are suggesting is a conspiracy theory by Obama administration. That they hid Pakistan's involvement for years. Are you sure you want to go down that path?
How much % of Pakistan's GDP is 250 million dollars? That will give you your answer. That much money is spent on one single small-medium sized CPEC project.
I'd agree with the post you quoted. The Indians are not thinking of the Afghan border at this point. They have been hoping for Pakistan to break up into several pieces for decades, and they would still not have to face the problem on the Afghan border because they likely don't want to annex any new countries created in place of Pakistan. They have been doing everything they can slow down Pakistan's economic growth, and boasted of slowing down Gwadar development. Of course all that sounds stupid now in the face of CPEC (which they are also try to make go away) but it tells you what they really want.
They have tried that time and again in the past .... it came to a point when it became a simple question of "should we really waste time trying to build relationship with a country that thought it was perfectly alright to provide refuge to likes of Taliban, OBL and whole lot of dangerous extremists. Even you would find it hard to provide a logical explanation for pursuing relationships with such a state.
maverick85
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Habeas corpus
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Yes, they are trying really well since 2008.
2008 was the breaking point. But you cant blame India for not trying till that point. Do you really think India should work with a Pak Govt that has no real powers first of all and then on top of that the rack record of being in bed with some of the most dangerous extremists ? If you say yes then I would like to know your reasoning.
not sure I understand your point. pls elaborate.
Pakpak
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Oh please, spare me this nonsense. India has its hands dirty all over Balochistan. Your own politicians have bragged about it. Cut out the nonsensical ''we are so innocent'' rona dhona.
What you won't find however is Indian stars being hounded in Pakistan or anyone in Pakistan in being abused for giving anything like a neutral comment about India like Amir or Shahrukh Khan were in India. Nor will you find any Pakistan domain banning Indians, like Indians do it everywhere. As I said during my exchange with Varun, a big nation with emotional range of a tea-spoon is what India is.
The fact is both nations have been at it, Pakistanis with 1965, Indians responding in 1971 and since then proxy non-sense with both sides playing blame games. And the sad thing is even people like me, who would ban dungs like Hafiz Saeed and cut out our relation with Taliban, are sick of India acting as holier-than-thou when it is anything but. So if you want to cry about being a victim go cry somewhere else, it's not going to fly here.
Balochistan is a relatively new thing and they learnt that game from Pakistan .... but yeah our history is complicated. But you cant just claim India never gave a honest try. Unless you think we should just ignore all the harkats. This is the reality. Unless there is a strong civilian govt in Pakistan there is zero chance for peace. You can disagree all you want but that is what it comes down to.
Pakpak
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As for army, the only two times we ever came real close to solving issues was under Musharraf. Our ex-FM under Musharraf and later under civilian governments have all said India and Pakistan almost sealed a deal till Musharraf was overthrown, and the political instability that came after it. Mumbai put the end to that talk. Noone has given any honest try. You've literally just admitted it re: Balochistan post-Mumbai, but we already know that from India's politicians. And as I said this ***-for-tat goes way before 2008 from the Samjhota express bombings, to Kargil, to 71 to 65.
And I said it before noone is interested, Pakistan is the bogeyman who is blamed for even indigestion in India and is a convenient thumping bag to divert any issue and here the army eats chunks in the name of defence. So like I said before, carry on with your victimisation whining, it's not going to work.
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English August
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Depends on how many examples you want and how recent. As recently as 2-3 years ago, Modi took a huge political gamble, put his own reputation as a strongman on line, and personally traveled to Pak to attend Sharif's granddaughter's wedding. He had won the election on the plank on being a hawk (in addition to his development agenda). Yet he invited Sharif for his swearing-in ceremony along with other SAARC leaders.
What did he get in return? Uri and Pathankot. Opposition leaders in India and Modi-haters (there are many) are even today trolling him about these missteps. Do you seriously think he's going to try again?
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[MENTION=142736]English August[/MENTION]
English August
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Thankfully you were avoided long ago. The only Indian posters capable of a good debate on PP are Gabbar, Varun, Tusker big_gamer and SIF. Even if I disagree with them.
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Thankfully you were avoided long ago. The only Indian posters capable of a good debate on PP are Gabbar, Varun, Tusker big_gamer and SIF. Even if I disagree with them.
Syed1
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I don't even bother putting them on the ignore list... that's too much work and effort. I see their names I keep scrolling, specially this English August and Snakeyes.
This and anyone with half a mind should understand that India will never outright go and harm and break Pakistan as someone pointed out. Doing that will only harm India more. Does India really need a Syria or Afghanistan as its neighbor where terrorists will start flowing even in more flow into India ? India had always just taken Pakistan to task by reminding them that they need to stop the proxy wars, stop supporting terrorists that cause problems for India. Hence the isolation, the no cricket playing until Pakistan sorts its internal issues out. Imagine a nafta agreement similar to Us, Canada and Mexico but instead between India and Pakistan in. It would be a huge benefit for both.
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https://www.dawn.com/news/1380660/pakistan-needs-to-earn-the-money-it-gets-says-us
WASHINGTON: The US State Department has said that Pakistan needs to earn the money it gets from Washington while the White House warned that President Donald Trump can follow through his pledge to stop US assistance to Pakistan if it does not change its Afghan policy.
The two statements were part of the regular news briefings at the White House and the State Department on Tuesday where reporters appeared perturbed about the timing of the tweet Mr Trump sent out at 4am on Monday, threatening Pakistan with dire consequences of its alleged support to the militants.
At the State Department, Spokesperson Heather Nauert seemed aware of the unpopularity of the “do more” phrase and avoided it, at least once. “I don’t want to say that Pakistan can do more, but Pakistan knows what it needs to do,” she said.
But Ms Nauert minced no words when asked why President Trump was threatening to stop US economic and military assistance to Pakistan.
White House’s press secretary says President Trump ‘does what he says’
“They need to better earn, essentially, the money that we have provided in the past in foreign military assistance, they need to show that they are sincere in their efforts to crack down on terrorists,” she said.
At the White House, Press Secretary Sarah Sanders reminded Pakistan that President Trump “does what he says” and he will follow through the commitment he made.
Both statements emphasised the point that there’s no immediate reason behind the tweet that seems to have stirred a wave of anti-American sentiments across Pakistan. Mr Trump was only re-emphasising his frustration with Pakistan’s Afghan policy.
“The president is simply following through on a commitment that he made, because this is a president that does what he says he’s going to do,” said Sanders when asked what precipitated President Trump’s tweet about threatening to withhold future US aid to Pakistan.
“We know that Pakistan can do more to fight terrorism, and we want them to step up and do that,” she added, negating the State Department’s effort to avoid using an unpopular phrase.
Despite her denial, reporters at the White House briefing continued to ask Ms San*ders what caused Mr Trump to send out a tweet at 4am.
Some reminded that the US-Pakistan disagreement on the Haqqani network was a long-running dispute between the two governments, so there has to be a reason for sending such a harsh message to Islamabad.
Ms Sanders traced it back to the new Afghan strategy President Trump outlined in August reminding Pakistan that it was not fulfilling its obligations. Another journalist looking for a cause for the tweet referred to Mr Trump’s UN envoy Nikki Haley’s statement, saying that the aid cut for Pak*is*tan was not tied to the United Nations vote on Jerusalem.
“First, in terms of Pakistan, as I said, our goal is that we know that they can do more to stop terrorism, and we want them to do that. That seems pretty simple,” Ms Sanders said.
Responding to the second part of the question — when would the US announce sanctions on the nations that voted against it in the UN on the Jerusalem issue last month — the White House official said: “I think you’ll see some more details come out on that in the next 24 to 48 hours.”
At the State Department, Ms Heather too had to face the same question — “why did the administration choose this week to announce it is withholding aid from Pakistan”?
“Actually, no, we didn’t. That was an announcement that came out back in August, and for some reason, people got interested in it again. But that is not a new announcement that we would hold back on that money,” she responded.
“Pakistan is an important partner. We have a lot of issues in that region. ******tan knows that, we all know that, and we try to work carefully together on some of those issues,” said Ms Hea*ther.
“The president has made clear in the past also… that the US expects Pakistan to take decisive action against the Haqqani network and other militants who are operating from its soil,” she added.
WASHINGTON: The US State Department has said that Pakistan needs to earn the money it gets from Washington while the White House warned that President Donald Trump can follow through his pledge to stop US assistance to Pakistan if it does not change its Afghan policy.
The two statements were part of the regular news briefings at the White House and the State Department on Tuesday where reporters appeared perturbed about the timing of the tweet Mr Trump sent out at 4am on Monday, threatening Pakistan with dire consequences of its alleged support to the militants.
At the State Department, Spokesperson Heather Nauert seemed aware of the unpopularity of the “do more” phrase and avoided it, at least once. “I don’t want to say that Pakistan can do more, but Pakistan knows what it needs to do,” she said.
But Ms Nauert minced no words when asked why President Trump was threatening to stop US economic and military assistance to Pakistan.
White House’s press secretary says President Trump ‘does what he says’
“They need to better earn, essentially, the money that we have provided in the past in foreign military assistance, they need to show that they are sincere in their efforts to crack down on terrorists,” she said.
At the White House, Press Secretary Sarah Sanders reminded Pakistan that President Trump “does what he says” and he will follow through the commitment he made.
Both statements emphasised the point that there’s no immediate reason behind the tweet that seems to have stirred a wave of anti-American sentiments across Pakistan. Mr Trump was only re-emphasising his frustration with Pakistan’s Afghan policy.
“The president is simply following through on a commitment that he made, because this is a president that does what he says he’s going to do,” said Sanders when asked what precipitated President Trump’s tweet about threatening to withhold future US aid to Pakistan.
“We know that Pakistan can do more to fight terrorism, and we want them to step up and do that,” she added, negating the State Department’s effort to avoid using an unpopular phrase.
Despite her denial, reporters at the White House briefing continued to ask Ms San*ders what caused Mr Trump to send out a tweet at 4am.
Some reminded that the US-Pakistan disagreement on the Haqqani network was a long-running dispute between the two governments, so there has to be a reason for sending such a harsh message to Islamabad.
Ms Sanders traced it back to the new Afghan strategy President Trump outlined in August reminding Pakistan that it was not fulfilling its obligations. Another journalist looking for a cause for the tweet referred to Mr Trump’s UN envoy Nikki Haley’s statement, saying that the aid cut for Pak*is*tan was not tied to the United Nations vote on Jerusalem.
“First, in terms of Pakistan, as I said, our goal is that we know that they can do more to stop terrorism, and we want them to do that. That seems pretty simple,” Ms Sanders said.
Responding to the second part of the question — when would the US announce sanctions on the nations that voted against it in the UN on the Jerusalem issue last month — the White House official said: “I think you’ll see some more details come out on that in the next 24 to 48 hours.”
At the State Department, Ms Heather too had to face the same question — “why did the administration choose this week to announce it is withholding aid from Pakistan”?
“Actually, no, we didn’t. That was an announcement that came out back in August, and for some reason, people got interested in it again. But that is not a new announcement that we would hold back on that money,” she responded.
“Pakistan is an important partner. We have a lot of issues in that region. ******tan knows that, we all know that, and we try to work carefully together on some of those issues,” said Ms Hea*ther.
“The president has made clear in the past also… that the US expects Pakistan to take decisive action against the Haqqani network and other militants who are operating from its soil,” she added.
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Inability of some people to make an effort to know about the world they live in is very painful to fathom.
Above post is an example of how knowledge is derived from Bollywood blockbusters than actually knowing anything about the people of Pakistan
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Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan on Wednesday called President Mamnoon Hussain and expressed solidarity with Pakistan in the wake of allegations levelled by US President Donald Trump.
The Turkish president assured his Pakistani counterpart of full support and cooperation "in any situation", a press release issued by the presidency said.
"Trump's conduct in spite of Pakistan's great sacrifices is undesirable," Erdogan was quoted as saying. He said Pakistan had rendered historic sacrifices in the war against terrorism.
President Hussain said Pakistan is a responsible country and would give an "appropriate response" to the US allegations. He said Pakistan believes in a policy of engagement and cooperation and regretted that its sentiments had not been respected.
Thanking the Turkish president for expressing solidarity with Pakistan, Hussain said, "This love-filled message has made us feel proud."
Both the presidents reiterated that Pakistan and Turkey are brotherly countries and always stood beside each other in all circumstances.
A day earlier, China too had thrown its weight behind Pakistan and said that its key regional ally has "made outstanding contributions to the international anti-terrorism cause".
In his first tweet of the new year, Trump had accused Pakistan of basing its relationship with the US on “nothing but lies and deceit”.
“They give safe haven to the terrorists we hunt in Afghanistan, with little help. No more!” he had said.
Worsening relations
The US president's tweet had come in the aftermath of an increasingly terse back-and-forth between Washington and Islamabad since Trump announced his administration's latest national security strategy.
During the announcement, the US president had been quick to remind Pakistan of its 'obligation' to help America "because it receives massive payments" from Washington every year.
"We have made clear to Pakistan that while we desire continued partnership, we must see decisive action against terrorist groups operating on their territory. And we make massive payments every year to Pakistan. They have to help," the US president had said.
https://www.dawn.com/news/1380592/p...dogan-expresses-solidarity-in-call-to-mamnoon
The Turkish president assured his Pakistani counterpart of full support and cooperation "in any situation", a press release issued by the presidency said.
"Trump's conduct in spite of Pakistan's great sacrifices is undesirable," Erdogan was quoted as saying. He said Pakistan had rendered historic sacrifices in the war against terrorism.
President Hussain said Pakistan is a responsible country and would give an "appropriate response" to the US allegations. He said Pakistan believes in a policy of engagement and cooperation and regretted that its sentiments had not been respected.
Thanking the Turkish president for expressing solidarity with Pakistan, Hussain said, "This love-filled message has made us feel proud."
Both the presidents reiterated that Pakistan and Turkey are brotherly countries and always stood beside each other in all circumstances.
A day earlier, China too had thrown its weight behind Pakistan and said that its key regional ally has "made outstanding contributions to the international anti-terrorism cause".
In his first tweet of the new year, Trump had accused Pakistan of basing its relationship with the US on “nothing but lies and deceit”.
“They give safe haven to the terrorists we hunt in Afghanistan, with little help. No more!” he had said.
Worsening relations
The US president's tweet had come in the aftermath of an increasingly terse back-and-forth between Washington and Islamabad since Trump announced his administration's latest national security strategy.
During the announcement, the US president had been quick to remind Pakistan of its 'obligation' to help America "because it receives massive payments" from Washington every year.
"We have made clear to Pakistan that while we desire continued partnership, we must see decisive action against terrorist groups operating on their territory. And we make massive payments every year to Pakistan. They have to help," the US president had said.
https://www.dawn.com/news/1380592/p...dogan-expresses-solidarity-in-call-to-mamnoon
The software industry is those who do the work. IBM, Accenture, Capgemini etc. etc. already have a majority of their workers in India. If Indians software engineers are prevented from going to the US, it won't be that liberal arts graduates will magically start writing code. Rather the jobs would move to India.
What, what, what? I didn't make it to either list, I feel very marginalized
Especially given that Tusker is almost my alter ego.
maverick85
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I wouldn't be surprised if a bunch of Indian hindutva nutters carried out these attacks. The Bharat mata contintental drift has done a number on their small minds. You know the old saying with regards to Modi: "Bagal Mein Churi, Muh Mein Ram". Food for thought for the sanghis.
Pakpak
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What, what, what? I didn't make it to either list, I feel very marginalized
Especially given that Tusker is almost my alter ego.
I doubt we will ever agree to anything but you're not a troll like some of the others.
big_gamer007
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So America stopped USD 255 mill dollars worth of aid to Pakistan?
There are two type of people in the world:
1. Who would take this on their ego and try to work extra hard and reach a point where they will become strong enough to prove to America they don’t need them.
2. Who will keep whining and crying about how they got used by America and not do a thing to improve..
Pakistan have elections coming up and have a great chance to go on path of point 1. They can either elect IK and the public can give him enough support he changes Pakistan’s image and economy and foreign policy or they can chose a Sharif or Bhutto and continue on the path they are currently..
A country is defined by its people elections going to be a litmus year for Pakistanis..
There are two type of people in the world:
1. Who would take this on their ego and try to work extra hard and reach a point where they will become strong enough to prove to America they don’t need them.
2. Who will keep whining and crying about how they got used by America and not do a thing to improve..
Pakistan have elections coming up and have a great chance to go on path of point 1. They can either elect IK and the public can give him enough support he changes Pakistan’s image and economy and foreign policy or they can chose a Sharif or Bhutto and continue on the path they are currently..
A country is defined by its people elections going to be a litmus year for Pakistanis..
big_gamer007
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Haha mate you are reaching a point of frustration which I sometimes face too when I spend too much time arguing with people with hatred in their hearts..
Do not let it turn you on their side be strong and one day there would be peace between the two countries.. Maybe not in our lifetime but if people like you turn as well then that’s small hope would be lost as well..
cricketjoshila
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He doesnt understand the difference between pakistan state and pakistan country.
big_gamer007
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TBH a lot of Indians do not understand the same.. With the rise of internet and rise of internet in India in general the trolls have taken over the World Wide Web.. So if someone mature is debating on a topic they would see troll replies and eventually start believing the other side hates us..
And it’s not Pakistan related even on other issues these days trolls have taken over the web..
I’m not talking about PP since it’s heavily moderated but internet in general..
Top post. Agree with most of it besides the last point. India can well sit out of this geopolitical mess that Pakistan finds itself mired in. We can play both sides without getting our hands dirty, as we have done in the past. That seems to be our strategy currently and I see no harm in it.
English August
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Right, the old living-in-denial card. So:
- 9/11 was an internal job / done by zionist mafia
- Mumbai massacre was a false-flag operation / was a Bollywood film
- Pathankot was done by Sanghis
- Hafeez Saeed is a social worker
And then you wonder why India doesn't want to play bilateral series with Pak.
You do know that Musharraf was the main man behind Kargil right ? and that too at a time when the Vajpayee Govt was making an honest attempt. As I have said time and again every step that every Indian Govt has taken is responded with a Terror incident or a military activity that it beggars belief. The latest one is after Modi reached out to Shariff and in return got back Uri and Pathankot. Why would Modi ever try working with such a state ?
Pakpak
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There is no proof we were behidn Uri and Pathankot. Nor did we gain anything from it.
I already acknowledged Kargil, so not sure why you brought that up. Musharraf almost got us to peace after that.
Here we go again ... the game of "proof"
yep agreed the only period in the recent past where the 2 countries had a semblence of normal relationship was under Musharraf. Also true is that Musharraf was responsible for Kargil as you agree. Indian policy makers have learnt from these incidents to never trust anyone in Pakistan. And you cant really blame them.
Syed1
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Funny how army haters have nothing to say when the sitting civilian government says that if action has to be taken against any US aggression it will be decided "by the army"... din raat fauj ko galliyaan do leken phir jub musibat aye tou fauj ke paaon par jao. Mashallah
Cpt. Rishwat
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Here we go again ... the game of "proof"
yep agreed the only period in the recent past where the 2 countries had a semblence of normal relationship was under Musharraf. Also true is that Musharraf was responsible for Kargil as you agree. Indian policy makers have learnt from these incidents to never trust anyone in Pakistan. And you cant really blame them.
That approach might make sense for countries like Bangladesh or Sri Lanka, the victim mentality is understandable for smaller nations. But India is selling itself as a regional super power, should it's policy of control be at the whim of a 70 yr old failed nation? Ask yourself why China doesn't accept such a meek and helpless stance, and has managed to outmanoeuvre India at every turn in taking charge of that part of the world? Where is the vision?
Pakpak
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Here we go again ... the game of "proof"
yep agreed the only period in the recent past where the 2 countries had a semblence of normal relationship was under Musharraf. Also true is that Musharraf was responsible for Kargil as you agree. Indian policy makers have learnt from these incidents to never trust anyone in Pakistan. And you cant really blame them.
Well yes, this is how the world works, on ''the game of proof''. There have been many times India has blamed Pakistan only for it to be proven a lie. Samjhota was one, then I remember the incident where Indians released a massive press release about terrorists coming in India, turned out that the ''terrorists'' were normal people in Lahore who were as bemused as the Indians.
And I can really ''blame them''. Indians have messed in Balochistan too, so any moral high ground they have doesn't work now.
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Pakpak
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Here we go again ... the game of "proof"
yep agreed the only period in the recent past where the 2 countries had a semblence of normal relationship was under Musharraf. Also true is that Musharraf was responsible for Kargil as you agree. Indian policy makers have learnt from these incidents to never trust anyone in Pakistan. And you cant really blame them.
And I said, where do we stop? Should we go all the way back to 71 and 65?
maverick85
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- What has Pakistan got to do with 9-11? Focus on the Saudi habibis
- Mumbaikar hindutva sanghi nutters can do anything. I wouldn't rule it out.
- Pathankot is Kashmiri based attack, don't bring Pakistan into it. 7 lakh soldiers in J&K and numerous crimes by the Indian forces, expect some grievances from the Kashmiris.
- Is Haffez Saaed your chacha? Why the obsession with this overweight, uncharasmatic fella? Pakistanis have better things to do. Funny Indians.
Yeah sure for code that is messy and unmanageable I'm sure corporations are willing to take that risk. Liberal arts graduates can probably code better than assembly line graduates who cannot even write a proper sentence in english let alone comprehend assignments given to them.
Varun
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Maybe because they rightly recognize that that is the one valid scenario the army is made for? Respond to aggression from foreign states?
Syed1
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As per constitution civilian government instructs army to take action
English August
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There you go. QED.
the more pertinent question is should we ignore costly historical lessons and keep trying our luck or protect our interests as best as we can.
I agree with this. However we really never had such visionary leaders until now and it will take time to undo 70 yrs of bungling by corrupt Congress leadership. China is a authoritarian state that bullies others into submission thru brute force. Can't really compare.
Pakpak
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What interests have you protected? By your own words you accuse Pakistan of doing Uri and Panthakot during the 'isolation' period after 2008, how did that work out for you?
What should be sad for you is that I, a Pakistani, who's nation is crippled economically is trying to make you understand the need for peace regardless of elements who try to destabilise it. While you, an Indian, who's country is a powerhouse now financially and aspiring to be a big power is still willing to carry on with squabbles.
If both sides keep your mantra then even a hundred years later it'll be the same nonsense. Pakistan messed first in 65, India responded in 71, then Pakistan in 1999 and then Indians with the Samjhota bombing (which it first tried to blame it on Pakistan) and then Mumbai, then India's nonsense in Balochistan and then your allegation of Uri & P. My point is this 'list' of offences from either side can go on and on. I mean where does this stop? By 2100 this list would have grown exponentially. Personally I have no interest in normal relations with India as Indians do not seem to, but I feel a lot of powers will be happy if India and Pakistan continue to squabble. A united Asia with Russia, China and Pakistan and India would an end to a unipower world.
But carry on protecting your interests. I am out of this thread.
Cpt. Rishwat
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In what way has China bullied Pakistan into submission through brute force? We are talking about influence over the region and Pakistan in particular right? Or have you gone off in some other direction?
Dude you don't need to sell Peace to Indians ... I wish you had an understanding of our ancient scriptures to understand our perspective on peace. As such India is the only nation that has a track record of coexisting with completely Alien cultures ( like Farsi's and Jews ) for many hundreds of years without EVER forcing our Culture on them. Our tolerance and acceptance of beliefs that are not truly Hindu beliefs is unmatched. Without such a tolerant and peace loving nature India wouldnt have been able to give birth to ideologies such as Buddhism, Jainism and Sikhism. Infact I wish Hinduism wasnt soo benevolvent, naive and accepting of other ideologies. Anyhow thanks for a good discussion.
China will do whatever is in its best interests. And you can bet your bottom dollar that it will make sure that it gets the best out of any join venture with Pakistan. The same is not true with Indian leadership of past. A great example is Article 371 ... ( Compare that to Tibet lol ) . As I said it will take time. Perhaps not in our lifetimes.
maybe in the past, thousands years ago, but sadly the current situation is totally different.
you cant really blame them for becoming intolerant when we are surrounded by hostile countries that will gladly eat you alive. Hinduisms experience with Islam has been a brutal eye-opener. Hindus still will gladly co-exist with any other religious community but it is extremely difficult to do the same with Islam given the bloody history that goes back centuries. ohh well.
So i assume delusional-ism is an another extension of Hinduism?
sshakir411
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Contradicting yourself. We've seen enough examples in the last decade to determine Hindus are intolerant of Islam and Muslims.
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