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Pakistan ODI - Middle order dilemma

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Pakistan is a country that longed for decent openers since the retirement of Saeed Anwar and Amir Sohail. For good part of 2 decades we had all sort of non-performing, make shift openers or simply passengers being played as openers. Since early 2000s one thing that remained strong and steadfast were our middle order batting where Inzi and Yousuf ruled and ably supported by Malik, Younis, Mahmood, etc.

Years later today we stand at a position where we have plenty of openers and very decent openers but zilch in middle order batting. Yesterday our top 5 consisted of Imam, Fakhar, Babar, Shan and Rizwan all of whom can and do play as openers. Given that our domestic cricket are churning out too many openers right now it is not correct in my opinion to simply play an opener at 4/5 simply because statistically he has been doing brilliantly in domestics. Me being old fashioned I would like to play players in positions where they understand their roles and responsibilities. A player playing at position 5 would have very different approach to the game and would also have different mindset when he goes out to bat than to someone who opens the batting.

Therefore the management would have to take some tough decisions and bring our middle order batting back into the fore here. Now when we are talking about middle order batting we are mainly talking about positions 4 and 5. The following are potential candidates that management should bring into the fore to help fill this gap; Iftikhar Ahmed, Agha Salman, Haris Sohail and Abdullah Shafique.

Iftikhar is a no brainer. I personally think he might be the strongest mentally from the lot which speaks volumes as we need someone who is mentally strong in pressure situations. Ifti really should play at 5 and with his part time off spin he can be a handy with ball too.

Abdullah Shafique is a guy with tremendous potential. In my opinion Abdullah should play at 4 as plays spin very well and have got good technique against spin. I also believe he should play at 3 in test matches rather than opening in test matches. To make everyone's life easy Abdullah can play at 3 in both ODI and test whilst Babar can play at 4 in both ODI and tests.

Haris Sohail and Agha Salman do not inspire similar confidence as much as the other two.

What happens with Mohammad Rizwan? I personally believe Rizwan should work on his game for number 6 position and make that his own for both ODIs and tests. Also I don't mind Rizwan batting at 5 and Ifti at 6 as per demand of the situation. My opinion might not be the well taken on this forum but I personally believe Rizwan should let go of T20 format and focus on ODI and tests. I personally feel Rizwan can benefit Pakistan cricket immensely in ODI and test. He has already gone down in Pakistan cricket as best WK batsman in T20s and its likely he would go down as similar in ODI and tests. I really want this guy to help us win test matches abroad.

Overall simply having our best players fit into a lineup with no roles and responsibility will fit no purpose. We need to have a best team as a combination rather than best statistical team on paper.
 
Middle order would be a dillema if the top order was very weak.

The top order has Zaman, Imam and Babar. Bbar avgs 60, Imam 51 and Fakhar 46. Those are terrific avgs.

In middle order we have got rizwan. We can try Shadab Khan with him aswell. Maybe bring in another middle order batter. Iftikhar Ahmad needs to be there instead of Salman Agha.

The middle order is a dillema in t20 not in odi. In t20 we are playing 5 openers. Harris and Saim Ayub both cannot play in the same team.
 
Imagine falling from a middle order of YK, Yousuf and Inzimam to Babar, Rizwan and Shadab

Ya Allah hum per apna fazl farma!
 
Bilal Ahmad15 said:
Abdullah Shafique is a natural opener, not number 3, 4 or 5
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Everyone we have is a natural opener!

These are batters or nursery kids?

So and so cannot bat at 4, another cant bat at 3.5, one doesn't like number 3 - getting silly now.

We have a bunch of good batters - they need to bat where they are told and bat like their lives depended on it. Simple.
 
MenInG said:
Everyone we have is a natural opener!

These are batters or nursery kids?

So and so cannot bat at 4, another cant bat at 3.5, one doesn't like number 3 - getting silly now.

We have a bunch of good batters - they need to bat where they are told and bat like their lives depended on it. Simple.
Click to expand...

Not everyone is a natural opener, for odi it would be Fakhar Zaman, Imam Ul-Haq, Shan Masood, Abdullah Shafique and even Muhammad Rizwan, but Muhamad RIzwan looks set at 4.

The others are not natural openers, and are playing in their best position at the moment, like Babar at 3, Agha Salman, Iftikhar lower order.

I just don't see the point in bringing a relatively new player in Abdullah Shafique who is an opener, and probably a slow Strike Rate, to put him at 6 or 4 or 5.
 
Rashid Latif on this subject:

"Haris Sohail is a middle-order player though he is currently not playing due to injury, and Salman Ali Agha is the only current middle-order batsman. In a 50-over game, things are different from T20 where the focus is on hitting, even Shan will score runs in it, Babar and Rizwan will also make runs in it. In ODIs, you need to construct an innings, and that requires a player like Iftikhar Ahmed in the middle-order"

"There are many players who are playing in the domestic cricket as middle-order batsmen, and we have not even tried them. Maybe we are lacking a strong middle-order in our squad, as we only have two middle-order players - Salman Ali Agha and Haris Sohail. We need more solid middle-order players, as we have 4 to 5 solid openers but no solid middle-order"
 
That's pure fiction about Abdullah Shafique.

Abdullah doesn't play spin well at all. Plus a poor rotater of strike. Horrible pick for middle order.

He doesn't merit a place in odi squad at all. On what basis? That list A average of 14??
He is usually too slow even for tests. While he did well in thia year's psl, batting one down in t20s is a different scenario altogether. Plus, those were some of flattest highways ever seen.

Agha Salman is not great v pace but excellent vs spin. Think he should be given a go @4.

Tahir can be given a run @4 too. Again good player of spin and has domestic performances behind him. Nothing earth shattering but can do a job in middle order.

Kamran Ghulam whilst not suited for t20s can be a genuine no.4 option in odis.

Chacha, well he is inconsistent but with the potential to produce the best performance on a given day.

Haris Sohail comfortably should have been our 4 but unfortunately due his poor fitness and laziness, his time seems over to me.

Tldr:
Agha
Kamran Ghulam
Tahir
Chacha

These are our options for mo, not AS who has poor game for MO and shouldn't even be in odi squads let alone XI.
 
Marooned said:
That's pure fiction about Abdullah Shafique.

Abdullah doesn't play spin well at all. Plus a poor rotater of strike. Horrible pick for middle order.

He doesn't merit a place in odi squad at all. On what basis? That list A average of 14??
He is usually too slow even for tests. While he did well in thia year's psl, batting one down in t20s is a different scenario altogether. Plus, those were some of flattest highways ever seen.

Agha Salman is not great v pace but excellent vs spin. Think he should be given a go @4.

Tahir can be given a run @4 too. Again good player of spin and has domestic performances behind him. Nothing earth shattering but can do a job in middle order.

Kamran Ghulam whilst not suited for t20s can be a genuine no.4 option in odis.

Chacha, well he is inconsistent but with the potential to produce the best performance on a given day.

Haris Sohail comfortably should have been our 4 but unfortunately due his poor fitness and laziness, his time seems over to me.

Tldr:
Agha
Kamran Ghulam
Tahir
Chacha

These are our options for mo, not AS who has poor game for MO and shouldn't even be in odi squads let alone XI.
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+1 on Shan and AS not belonging to Mo.
Although you have to look at Pakistan team’s strengths and weaknesses. With a top4 of Imam, Fakhar, Babar and Rizwan, what you need at 5 and 6 are batsmen who have the 5th gear. For me, it has to be Agha and Cacha.
Ghulam has always struggled to accelerate in PSL whereas Tahir is too late to be introduced now in World Cup year.
 
Someone please tell me how Abdullah Shafique makes the ODI team based on merit lol.

5 50 over matches
Average 14.75
Strike Rate 66
High Score 27
 
I think it's pretty simple. After #3 Babar, #4 Rizwan it should be:

#5 Haris Sohail/Salman Ali Agha (good against spin in the middle overs)
#6 ftikhar Ahmed (finisher - great list A stats in this role)
#7 Imad Wasim ( buffer - can adapt to any role)
#8 Shadab/Nawaz (quick runs in last few overs)

I don't know how Babar or the rest of the team management view this, but I feel we have a pretty decent ODI batting line up for Asian conditions.

There just ain't any better alternative for short term. World Cup is just 5 months away with a few practice games to go.
 
At this point having Iftikhar somewhere in there is a no brainer
 
ahmadharis1 said:
Someone please tell me how Abdullah Shafique makes the ODI team based on merit lol.

5 50 over matches
Average 14.75
Strike Rate 66
High Score 27
Click to expand...

When Abdullah first played test match how many first class matches did he play ?
 
Haris Sohail is still real class. True fans will know the ability this man has. Even at 50% fitness. Y’all forget too fast.

The Ghost of England ‘19: Haris Sohail.

Need his experience in this WC, potentially his last one. Keep Shafique as substitute. Personally not a fan of Agha in LO. I’d give a chance to Imad over Agha and Shadab at 6. Has decent List A stats and averages 40 friggin 3 almost in ODIs!!!! Higher than his List A average even. Yeah he struggles to finish games, every player has a weakness, but the risk:reward ratio of playing his makes it a no brainer to play him.

A hidden gem Imad is. But as usual, Pakistan skips over hidden gems and gives 10000s of chances to guys like Shan lmao :))) what a sick joke.

So in terms of pecking order for the next year, my picks are:

4) Haris Sohail
5) Rizwan
6) Iftikhar or Imad (both in squad)
 
Last edited:
3) Babar
4) ??
5) Rizwan
6) Iftikhar
7) Imad
8) Shadab

Followed by 3 quicks
 
I think we should move on from Haris. He’s probably still good enough to get into the side. But past his prime, injury prone. Don’t think it’s worth it building for the future.

I’m not sold on Abdullah shafique at 4 or below.

What we really need is someone like Azam Khan but fit. A middle order batsman by trade who is a fast scorer. Even his list a stats are very good, 31 at sr 123. Or a umar akmal again who is actually fit. I have more faith in someone like Haris developing into a middle order batsman over Abdullah. There’s only going to be two spots available with our top 3 and Rizwan, and it’s best to put quick scoring batsmen there.
 
Instead of selecting too many openers , they should select more proper middle order batsmen who are into that role even in domestics

Ifthikar, Ghulam, Umar Amin, Haris Sohail,
 
Marooned said:
That's pure fiction about Abdullah Shafique.

Abdullah doesn't play spin well at all. Plus a poor rotater of strike. Horrible pick for middle order.

He doesn't merit a place in odi squad at all. On what basis? That list A average of 14??
He is usually too slow even for tests. While he did well in thia year's psl, batting one down in t20s is a different scenario altogether. Plus, those were some of flattest highways ever seen.

Agha Salman is not great v pace but excellent vs spin. Think he should be given a go @4.

Tahir can be given a run @4 too. Again good player of spin and has domestic performances behind him. Nothing earth shattering but can do a job in middle order.

Kamran Ghulam whilst not suited for t20s can be a genuine no.4 option in odis.

Chacha, well he is inconsistent but with the potential to produce the best performance on a given day.

Haris Sohail comfortably should have been our 4 but unfortunately due his poor fitness and laziness, his time seems over to me.

Tldr:
Agha
Kamran Ghulam
Tahir
Chacha

These are our options for mo, not AS who has poor game for MO and shouldn't even be in odi squads let alone XI.
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Haris Sohail and Kamran Ghulam seems the best fit for no.4

It took 3 yrs for Mickey to come in and say no Rizwan is not ODI no.4 and he performed well in two games at no.5

Similarly soon they will realise and bring Ghulam for no.4
 
ads101 said:
I think we should move on from Haris. He’s probably still good enough to get into the side. But past his prime, injury prone. Don’t think it’s worth it building for the future.

I’m not sold on Abdullah shafique at 4 or below.

What we really need is someone like Azam Khan but fit. A middle order batsman by trade who is a fast scorer. Even his list a stats are very good, 31 at sr 123. Or a umar akmal again who is actually fit. I have more faith in someone like Haris developing into a middle order batsman over Abdullah. There’s only going to be two spots available with our top 3 and Rizwan, and it’s best to put quick scoring batsmen there.
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This is exactly why we go with Haris Sohail for this WC. It’s too late to try someone new when he already is world class.

Just have a backup in case he’s injured and build for the future after the WC if he’s out of form.
 
Suleiman said:
This is exactly why we go with Haris Sohail for this WC. It’s too late to try someone new when he already is world class.

Just have a backup in case he’s injured and build for the future after the WC if he’s out of form.
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Yes Harry at 4, rizzy 5 with chacha at 6 and Maddy 7 and Shaddy 8, with Shaheen at 9 Naseem 10 and Rauf 11, Ideal team for Indian conditions,.Anything less than final will be let down.
 
This should be our best XI after that 99 WC XI, atleast on paper. Almost all bases covered and as good as it gets. Only blemish is lack of proper fast bowling all rounder but WC isn't in SENA so is not as big deal, And can't have one just for sake of it .
 
I think as the poster above has noted this team has almost all bases covered (still I don’t know why it doesn’t feel that way). The top order is solid and performing well. Fast bowling is one of the best and all rounders and spin options while not as good as they have been in the past, are decent. That again leaves us with that one issue: middle order. I think we aren’t too bad in this either. The biggest issueis the number 4 position. That for me is what will determine how we fare at the WC. Usually teams have their best or second best player at this position, players who are capable of both accumulation and aggression. For us this becomes even more important as it’s the bridge between our heavy top order and unpredictable middle and lower order. In games where the top 3 score runs this guy will have to either consolidate or accelerate depending on the situation and if the top 3 fail this person should have the game to rebuild the innings.

So based on that we need someone who can score big or quick depending on the situation and I don’t see anyone in the current squad fitting the profile. Iftikhar and Salman are better at 5 or 6 and are more suited for shorter cameos. Haris Sohail with his current fitness and form I don’t think even belongs in the squad let alone occupy such a pivotal position. Abdullah is too inexperienced and probably ill suited for the role. That leaves us with either turning to Rizwan to play at 4 or bringing in someone else. Rizwan’s recent form has been good but I still don’t think he is suitable for this position. As it is he is perhaps already batting too high. The only other viable options in my opinion are Saud or Kamran Ghulam. Both are fit, technically sound and good against both spin and pace. Also both can bowl a few overs if required. Personally I’d prefer the latter as he seems the grittier of the two.

Also Imad must play at 7 as he is a way better bat than Shadab and Nawaz.
 
Pakistan do now have a dilemma in the middle order. Babar is 3, Rizwan is 5 & Shadab is 7/8.

So with this, Pakistan have 2 positions that need filling. Options are likely Iftikhar Ahmed, Agha Salman, Haris Sohail or someone outside the box.

For me Haris Sohail is still one of the better middle order batters Pakistan has, unfortunately injuries have been prevalent in his career and is fielding liability.

Ifti hasn't played much ODI cricket but is probably the closet to a finisher Pakistan has.

Agha Salman is meant to be the current No.6 yet I am not sold on him. He doesn't seem to have the power or shot selection to be the finisher Pakistan need.

Other options are Mohammad Haris who is relatively raw on ODI cricket, Tayyab Tahir who had an appalling T20I series against Afghanistan, Said Shakeel who unfortunately is a technically solid batter but SR & shot selection are a issue, Haider Ali who still needs work on his flaws while with Derbyshire, Aamer Jamal who is Pakistan only real AR coming through but is by no means a finished article & finally Kamran Ghulam who is a good player of spin & got shot selection but SR is a issue.

With all the options available, I personally would go with:

3. Babar Azam
4. Kamran Ghulam
5. Mohammad Rizwan
6. Iftikhar Ahmed
7. Aamer Jamal
8. Shadab Khan

I am relatively done with Nawaz, Agha & Haris Sohail (despite his consistency). Saud Shakeel & Haider Ali need improvement to be recalled in the side.

I would go with Kamran Ghulam as he is a solid batter, good player of spin. Iftikhar Ahmed is Pakistan's only big hitter and is a must. A lot of the teams in the tournament will be going with pace bowling ARs such Pandya, Stokes, Marsh & Holder etc. I don't see why Pakistan shouldn't go with one & Aamer Jamal is a pretty good one. Can bowl well, bat at a good rate. I would make him a must in the team & with Shadab Khan at 8, it would make our batting kind of deep.

So yeah, this would be my middle/lower order.
 
ask_analyse_act said:
Instead of selecting too many openers , they should select more proper middle order batsmen who are into that role even in domestics

Ifthikar, Ghulam, Umar Amin, Haris Sohail,
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What ever happened to Umar Amin exactly from what I recall he was a talented batsman.
 
Haris Sohail and Iftikhar are very good. No reason for us to hold them back. Them 2 along with Babar and Rizwan pose a formidable middle order.
 
Mohammad Hafeez :

"I was personally very shocked when Iftikhar and Saud Shakeel were excluded from the ODI squad. These two are the best performers in Pakistan's middle order that you have - there's absolutely no need to fret over here and there. The kind of innings that he played against India in Melbourne shows that he can take a sufficient amount of pressure. Yes, we can say that Iftikhar's fielding is a concern at times, but he's still a wonderful, safe hand for you whenever required. His bowling can be utilized for eight to ten overs at least, and most importantly, he's a complete batsman"

"On the other hand, if I talk about Saud Shakeel, I am yet to understand what kind of doubts or restrictions the management has regarding him. In my opinion, the most technically solid and capable player for the middle order is Saud Shakeel - then why has he been robbed of the chances to perform?"

"These two players can fairly be accommodated for the fifth or sixth positions or even in fourth, fifth, or sixth positions - they can be well-utilized. Not to forget, Salman Agha is a potential candidate as well. He has performed excellently lately. His batting, bowling, and fielding can be utilized maximally. If you pick these three or at least two of them, your constant issue for fifth and sixth slots would be ended,"
 
Huge problems if your number 5,6,7,8 can’t hit. Need chacha at 6 and Mr fake technique shafique should be nowhere near the side
 
Ahmed216 said:
Huge problems if your number 5,6,7,8 can’t hit. Need chacha at 6 and Mr fake technique shafique should be nowhere near the side
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Totally agreee with you we have a a very slow average one dimensional middle order, and from the average players pakistan possess I’d chuck in iftihikar, haris Sohail and Umar akmal best we’ve got for 4, 5 and 6 positions period f
 
Half fit harris rauf is still better than saud or abdullah. Harris sohail should be selected if he has improved his fitness. He is a must and will strengthen the middle order and support babar a lot in WC
 
pak current playing 11 looks pretty unbalance.Rizwan at 4 is asking for trouble while Agha &ifti are similar player heck even shadab,usama are also no different .We need proper middle order batsmen at 4 .Saud should bat at 4 while rizwan at 5
Fakhar
imam
babar azam
saud shakeel
rizwan
agha/ifti
shadab
usama/nawaz
 
People asking Saud to be included in the XI need to realise we have 3 batters of the same mould already in the playing XI i.e. Babar, Imam and Rizwan. We can ill-afford with another accumulator in the line-up. Also based on stats and facts all three of Babar, Imam and Rizwan are first picks above Saud.

What we need in middle order is someone like Iftikhar who can hit the ball and is mentally strong to see us over the line. Yes he might not be perfect but he is the best option we have got that fills the definition of number 6 bat in ODIs. Salman is mentally strong too on the face of it lets see how it pans out for him now.
 
Extra_Cover said:
People asking Saud to be included in the XI need to realise we have 3 batters of the same mould already in the playing XI i.e. Babar, Imam and Rizwan. We can ill-afford with another accumulator in the line-up. Also based on stats and facts all three of Babar, Imam and Rizwan are first picks above Saud.

What we need in middle order is someone like Iftikhar who can hit the ball and is mentally strong to see us over the line. Yes he might not be perfect but he is the best option we have got that fills the definition of number 6 bat in ODIs. Salman is mentally strong too on the face of it lets see how it pans out for him now.
Click to expand...

I agree, personally Harris needs to be brought in some how...he is young and inventive and can strike a mean ball when he has the chance.

Maybe even Harris instead of Rizwan considering the latter hasn't played well in ODIs for a while.
 
Extra_Cover said:
People asking Saud to be included in the XI need to realise we have 3 batters of the same mould already in the playing XI i.e. Babar, Imam and Rizwan. We can ill-afford with another accumulator in the line-up. Also based on stats and facts all three of Babar, Imam and Rizwan are first picks above Saud.

What we need in middle order is someone like Iftikhar who can hit the ball and is mentally strong to see us over the line. Yes he might not be perfect but he is the best option we have got that fills the definition of number 6 bat in ODIs. Salman is mentally strong too on the face of it lets see how it pans out for him now.
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When your top order can't play spin u need ur best player of spin Saud to come.in at 3 or 4.
He has the technique and temprament to perform under pressure.
World cup is not going to be high scoring affair. They'll need players who can grind it out on tough pitches and tough situations.
There's a gulf in class and quality between Saud and Iftikhar/Salman
One of them must make way for Saud.
If Pak team thinks Ifti can hit well in slog overs then Agha has to sit out.
 
Right now Fakhar is failing against swing. This won’t even have to be the case if the opposition don’t have proper swing bowlers. They can just bowl their part time off spinner to him and he will be clueless against him too.
 
Extra_Cover said:
People asking Saud to be included in the XI need to realise we have 3 batters of the same mould already in the playing XI i.e. Babar, Imam and Rizwan. We can ill-afford with another accumulator in the line-up. Also based on stats and facts all three of Babar, Imam and Rizwan are first picks above Saud.

What we need in middle order is someone like Iftikhar who can hit the ball and is mentally strong to see us over the line. Yes he might not be perfect but he is the best option we have got that fills the definition of number 6 bat in ODIs. Salman is mentally strong too on the face of it lets see how it pans out for him now.
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Pretty much spot on.
 
Major said:
Middle order would be a dillema if the top order was very weak.

The top order has Zaman, Imam and Babar. Bbar avgs 60, Imam 51 and Fakhar 46. Those are terrific avgs.

In middle order we have got rizwan. We can try Shadab Khan with him aswell. Maybe bring in another middle order batter. Iftikhar Ahmad needs to be there instead of Salman Agha.

The middle order is a dillema in t20 not in odi. In t20 we are playing 5 openers. Harris and Saim Ayub both cannot play in the same team.
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You cannot play bits and pieces all rounders in the middle order and expect to win the Asia Cup (yet alone the WC..). This approach may work in T20’s but not on ODI’s when you have to bat for extended period of time..

Saud is a natural no. 4 batsman just like Haris Sohail was..
 
Rana said:
Right now Fakhar is failing against swing. This won’t even have to be the case if the opposition don’t have proper swing bowlers. They can just bowl their part time off spinner to him and he will be clueless against him too.
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fakhar is also mujeeb bunny .he struggle against quality off spin .
 
msb314 said:
You cannot play bits and pieces all rounders in the middle order and expect to win the Asia Cup (yet alone the WC..). This approach may work in T20’s but not on ODI’s when you have to bat for extended period of time..

Saud is a natural no. 4 batsman just like Haris Sohail was..
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Iftikhar and Salman are not bits and pieces. THey are proper batters/

Haris Sohail is never fit and lacks international practice. Saud will have to fight for a spot with Salman
 
Major said:
Iftikhar and Salman are not bits and pieces. THey are proper batters/

Haris Sohail is never fit and lacks international practice. Saud will have to fight for a spot with Salman
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Rizwan is not bits and pieces either and is a proper number 4?
 
pakfan54588 said:
pak current playing 11 looks pretty unbalance.Rizwan at 4 is asking for trouble while Agha &ifti are similar player heck even shadab,usama are also no different .We need proper middle order batsmen at 4 .Saud should bat at 4 while rizwan at 5
Fakhar
imam
babar azam
saud shakeel
rizwan
agha/ifti
shadab
usama/nawaz
Click to expand...
I don't think Salman Agha and Saud Shakeel will have drastically different ODI performances though. The bonus for Salman Agha is that he can bowl which is huge for this World Cup.

My biggest concern with Saud is his lack of six hitting ability. He is really bad in this regard. His entire international career has yielded a solitary 6.

Having Saud down the order when we need impetus would be very frustrating. This is even more pertinent when we have guys like Imam and Babar who will actually give us a strong start more often than not.
 
Ahmed216 said:
Rizwan has improved his average batting at 4 in last year or so and he scores his runs at a decent clip as well
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The same argument should apply for Fakhar who’s averaging plenty as an opener. Yet there are people here calling for him to be dropped/replaced
 
I dont mind rizwan opening but that would mean shifting fakhar somewhere else
 
Major said:
I dont mind rizwan opening but that would mean shifting fakhar somewhere else
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Do you think fakhar can bat at any other position? he has done well at opening position so changing it now would be unfair to him.
 
Cricket Warrior said:
Do you think fakhar can bat at any other position? he has done well at opening position so changing it now would be unfair to him.
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Fakhar needs to perform. The other day when he was trying to whack the afghan bowlers he was not batting like an opener.

I do believe that rizwan will come through at no.4 but if the issue persists. I dont mind him at opening and fakhar being shifted down
 
Major said:
Fakhar needs to perform. The other day when he was trying to whack the afghan bowlers he was not batting like an opener.

I do believe that rizwan will come through at no.4 but if the issue persists. I dont mind him at opening and fakhar being shifted down
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Fakhar is useless in any other position besides opening considering his stats in t20.

Also putting Fakhar at no 4 is simply going to affect him mentally since he'll have more pressure to perform and might not play his natural game due to fear of being dropped.

When you shift a player out of their natural position, the player starts to feel as if the management does not trust him enough to do the job.

Their are a few exceptions like KL Rahul who's flourished in the middle order despite struggling with opening and Rohit, but our **** batters aren't mentally equipped to handle such changes.
 
mominsaigol said:
Fakhar is useless in any other position besides opening considering his stats in t20.

Also putting Fakhar at no 4 is simply going to affect him mentally since he'll have more pressure to perform and might not play his natural game due to fear of being dropped.

When you shift a player out of their natural position, the player starts to feel as if the management does not trust him enough to do the job.

Their are a few exceptions like KL Rahul who's flourished in the middle order despite struggling with opening and Rohit, but our **** batters aren't mentally equipped to handle such changes.
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Fakhar isn't doing wonders as an opener as of yet. But let's see
 
Major said:
Fakhar isn't doing wonders as an opener as of yet. But let's see
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The lad has been averaging 48.5 with a sr of 89 for the last 2 years in ODI's. What more can we ask for?
 
Major said:
Fakhar isn't doing wonders as an opener as of yet. But let's see
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This is the usual pre-tournament drama from Fakhar.

Looks like he can't hold a bat then suddenly he wakes up come the tournament.
 
Markhor said:
This is the usual pre-tournament drama from Fakhar.

Looks like he can't hold a bat then suddenly he wakes up come the tournament.
Click to expand...
I remember during CT17 Mickey Arthur commenting that before his selection Fakhar was even missing simple throwdowns in net practice.

He is the ultimate confidence player. He just needs to rediscover his mojo somewhere along the lines and he'll be back.
 
Major said:
Fakhar isn't doing wonders as an opener as of yet. But let's see
Click to expand...
He recently scored 2 double hundreds against New Zealand? And is the only pakistani Opener capable of scoring massive 150+ scores whereas every other pakistani batsmen barely gets their 100 and gets out as soon as they reach 3 figures by the 45th over.

He needs to open if pakistan want to win games.
 
Major said:
its obvious im talking aboiut current form
Click to expand...
And I'm telling you, putting him at no 4 is not gonna improve his form, it will worsen it further.

Fakhar has always had a few dry patches before he returns by scoring big. He's inconsistent but he's the only 150+ scoring batsmen we got, putting him down at no 4 is next level stupidity
 
Top 3 no.7 onwards are sealed spots.

The only conundrum is no.4 5 and 6.
I find Rizwan showing the most urgency at no.5
Iftikhar is a natural no.5 but his hitting ability makes him a much needed no.6
No.4 is a tricky one. Ideally, Haris Sohail should have made the spot his own after wc 19. Agha might come good but i don't have enough faith in his ability in LOIs right now. Tayyab Tahir could be tried there. Kamran Ghulam has shown some good no.4 ability in LA cricket in last one year.
 
BunnyRabbit said:
Top 3 no.7 onwards are sealed spots.

The only conundrum is no.4 5 and 6.
I find Rizwan showing the most urgency at no.5
Iftikhar is a natural no.5 but his hitting ability makes him a much needed no.6
No.4 is a tricky one. Ideally, Haris Sohail should have made the spot his own after wc 19. Agha might come good but i don't have enough faith in his ability in LOIs right now. Tayyab Tahir could be tried there. Kamran Ghulam has shown some good no.4 ability in LA cricket in last one year.
Click to expand...
Saud shakeel is needed at no 4.
 
Extra_Cover said:
People asking Saud to be included in the XI need to realise we have 3 batters of the same mould already in the playing XI i.e. Babar, Imam and Rizwan. We can ill-afford with another accumulator in the line-up. Also based on stats and facts all three of Babar, Imam and Rizwan are first picks above Saud.

What we need in middle order is someone like Iftikhar who can hit the ball and is mentally strong to see us over the line. Yes he might not be perfect but he is the best option we have got that fills the definition of number 6 bat in ODIs. Salman is mentally strong too on the face of it lets see how it pans out for him now.
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This is odi, consistent accumulators are better then people like chacha who will get you quick runs and then get out quickly.

We need consistent accumulators batting till no 5 and our no 6 and no 7 should be given to power hitters. Who can accelerate over the line in the last 10 overs. This isn't t20. As long as said accumulators can bat at a strike rate of 80 to 90 its good enough. We can try tayyab if saud isn't an option due to his power hitting ability.
 
We need saud shakeel
But I don't know who is going to replace him

May be Osama mir
 
I think the best solution is bring Shafique or Shakeel in for Agha Salman and put them at 4, push everyone else up one. That way you get another proper batter in, but you still have solid bowling options for all 50 overs (Shaheen, Naseem, Rauf, Shadab, Usama + Ifti if needed for a few).

Personally I'd rather Shafique as I think he's got the capacity for a few more gears, but neither are particularly big hitters. They are proper batters though, partnership builders. You can always bring Ifti and Shadab up the order if you need.

Agha has not bowled a single ball this series, he's basically playing as a specialist batter. I'd rather a real batter in his place then.
 
It's essential to consider replacing Agha Salman due to his occasional vulnerability. Introducing a solid middle-order batsman like Saud Shakeel could be a strategic move to stabilize the innings and build a strong foundation.
 
they can play Fakhar at 3-4 in T20i’s when he comes in too late but can’t play him at 4 in ODI’s when he’ll probably have 30 overs to play with which is more than enough for a player of his calibre.


Replace Agha with Shafique and play Fakhar at 4.


Abdullah Shafique
Imam ul Haq
Babar Azam (c)
Fakhar Zaman
Mohammad Rizwan (wk)
Ifthikar Ahmed
Mohammad Nawaz
Shadab Khan
Naseem Shah
Shaheen Shah Afridi
Haris Rauf

Or we could keep the same xi but bring Rizwan up as the opener.
 
Cricket Warrior said:
It's essential to consider replacing Agha Salman due to his occasional vulnerability. Introducing a solid middle-order batsman like Saud Shakeel could be a strategic move to stabilize the innings and build a strong foundation.
Click to expand...
YousafTheBeast said:
they can play Fakhar at 3-4 in T20i’s when he comes in too late but can’t play him at 4 in ODI’s when he’ll probably have 30 overs to play with which is more than enough for a player of his calibre.


Replace Agha with Shafique and play Fakhar at 4.


Abdullah Shafique
Imam ul Haq
Babar Azam (c)
Fakhar Zaman
Mohammad Rizwan (wk)
Ifthikar Ahmed
Mohammad Nawaz
Shadab Khan
Naseem Shah
Shaheen Shah Afridi
Haris Rauf

Or we could keep the same xi but bring Rizwan up as the opener.
Click to expand...
They won't do that just before the world cup.
 
shamaan said:
They won't do that just before the world cup.
Click to expand...
I don't understand why we can't make changes to the team before the World Cup. Whether a player is performing well or not we have to keep bound to them simply because it's a World Cup and we can't make changes.
 
we must stop this agha experiment simply pick up imad waseem he is the missing link.

i fear how this batting will fare against good bowling line ups.

the format in the world cup is such that every game is important. Agha got enough chances. It is hard to change mental deficiency that comes with being a Pakistani player.

Pakistan needs an experienced middle order batsman either imad waseem or haris sohal that left handed bastman. you can not field an inxperienced team altogether.

seems like Inzi got a job based on connections and have no idea how to field playing 11 for the world cup.

hopefully he is not getting feedback from formal skipper imran khan from Jail such is his mental capacity as a chief selector.
 
Cricket Warrior said:
I don't understand why we can't make changes to the team before the World Cup. Whether a player is performing well or not we have to keep bound to them simply because it's a World Cup and we can't make changes.
Click to expand...
You can make changes but not many teams do.
 
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