Pakistan removed from UK's Red List for COVID-19 risk

[Cpt. Rishwat]

The decisions taken throughout the pandemic situation, and the timings of these decisions (including those about Pakistan/India) have largely been political decisions driven by domestic & foreign policy and also mass media pressure. Very few of the choices that politicians are taking have truly been driven by “public health concerns”.

We may well have been clear to get back to normal life by now if Boris had taken as strict a line with India as he did with Pakistan and neighbouring countries. But then Tories have always been about counting the pennies and pounds, and judging by the in-fighting, most of them don't give a damn about the rights and wrongs as long as their bank balances are getting fatter.

 

[IMMY69]

It is economy vs health (World over).
Can speak for India that it was heavily skewed in favour of economy mainly due to too many daily wage workers and no social benefit structure.
I say economy (not politics) because any other party in power would have also chosen economy.

Surely the UK Economy has suffered exponentially more due delaying adding India onto the red list?

So it's bad decision after bad decision that has resulted in tens of thousands more deaths just from covid that could have been avoided. I say just from covid because thousands more have died from lack of treatment for other diseases or delayed diagnoses... thousands more have also suffered due to the economy.

 

[OMB]

Surely the UK Economy has suffered exponentially more due delaying adding India onto the red list?

So it's bad decision after bad decision that has resulted in tens of thousands more deaths just from covid that could have been avoided. I say just from covid because thousands more have died from lack of treatment for other diseases or delayed diagnoses... thousands more have also suffered due to the economy.

I don't know about what was good or bad for England. Apparently someone there thought that the economics outweigh the health concerns.

 

[IMMY69]

I don't know about what was good or bad for England. Apparently someone there thought that the economics outweigh the health concerns.

Well I think it was the the governments blatant disregard for the scientists

 

[Captain]

Will Pakistan ever come off UK's red travel list

Fot those who travel between UK and Pakistan, What is the likelyhood of pakistan ever coming off the Uk's red list ?
Surprising to see India moved to UK's Amber list which was the reason why UK was in such a mess with DELTA/INDIAN/JONSON variant... I wonder if it is just the coronavirus or the UK has drawn a RED line on pakistan for good.
As a british Pakistani with my parents and extended family in Pakistan, it worries me a lot as I do not see any prospect of seeing them anytime soon unless i'm willing to pay rediculous amount of Money on hotel quarnatine which has got even more expensive.

 

[PakLFC]

Don't know why Pak is still on the red list. Was in Islamabad some weeks back where everything seemed absolutely normal. What's worse is the quarantine in hotel fee is gonna increase from £1750 to over £2000 very soon.

 

[PakLFC]

The overall % of people vaccinated in Pak is not enough for it to be moved to the amber list.

 

[DonJee]

This is ridiculous, they've removed India from the red-list yet Pakistan stays on it and to make matter worse the cost of hotel quarantine has increased substantially!

 

[gkb101277867]

The levels of covid in India are much lower than pakistan so quite rightly it has been removed from the red list. India has regularly done over a million tests per day and has vaccinated a higher percentage than Pakistan too. Pakistan just reported a percentage positivity of over 9 percent which is again much higher than India. The testing in pakistan is also disgraceful with only around 50 to 60k tests being done per day.

 

[gkb101277867]

If you look at the data then India done over 1.7 million tests in 24 hours in the latest figures with 42000 cases. This is a positivity percentage of around 2.5 percent.

In Pakistan’s latest figures they done a disgracefully low 60k tests in the last 24 hours with around 5500 cases. This is a positivity percentage of over 9 percent.

It is clear to see from the data that currently the covid situation is much worse in pakistan so they can’t possibly be taken off the red list when they are going through a fourth wave. India is a lot more stable and cases have decreased dramatically

 

[PakLFC]

There is no conspiracy as many people here seem to suggest. We won't be removed off the list until we get enough people vaccinated. Those obsessed with India here try to keep them off the debate for once in your lives. Besides Pak there are still many other countries on the red list.

 

[ahsan17]

Meanwhile, Canada and US have India in their red lists but not Pakistan.

 

[PakLFC]

Meanwhile, Canada and US have India in their red lists but not Pakistan.

Well there you have it. Many Pakistanis just see a conspiracy everywhere. They just need a reason to bring India in to the debate such is the obsession. Every country has it's own rules and way to judge ssuch matters.

 

[MenInG]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">We're making some changes to our travel lists<br><br>Firstly, we’re removing the quarantine requirement for fully jabbed travellers coming back from <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/France?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#France</a>.<br><br>At the same time, we’re adding key destinations Germany, Austria, and Norway to the Green List [1/3]</p>— Rt Hon Grant Shapps MP (@grantshapps) <a href="https://twitter.com/grantshapps/status/1423023668494536707?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 4, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>



So India comes off the list but Pakistan doesn't?

 

[ahsan17]

Well there you have it. Many Pakistanis just see a conspiracy everywhere. They just need a reason to bring India in to the debate such is the obsession. Every country has it's own rules and way to judge ssuch matters.

To be fair, some of UK's restrictions don't make sense. They are allowing Americans and EU citizens to not quarantine but are requiring Canadians to quarantine. Check out the case levels. It's like they are making decisions based on upside down data.

 

[PakLFC]

To be fair, some of UK's restrictions don't make sense. They are allowing Americans and EU citizens to not quarantine but are requiring Canadians to quarantine. Check out the case levels. It's like they are making decisions based on upside down data.

Yeah I know what you are saying. If they are asking Canadians to quarantine it further proves Pak is not being deliberately targeted as many are suggesting. Sooner or later they are bound to remove Pak from the red list too.

 

[MenInG]

LONDON: All Parties Parliamentary Group (APPG) on Pakistan chief Yasmin Qureshi and MP for Bradford West, Naz Shah, slammed the British government for keeping Pakistan on the red list and removing India, Qatar, and other countries from it.

The British government shifted India, UAE, Bahrain and Qatar from the red to amber list but ignored Pakistan. The amber travel list means that returnees can quarantine at home, rather than in a hotel.

British lawmakers Yasmin Qureshi and MP for Bradford West Naz Shah were of the view that coronavirus rates in Pakistan were averaging around 4,500 per day, around five times lower than the United Kingdom but in India, where the delta variant emerged and precipitated Britain’s third wave, cases are at around 40,000 per day.

Pakistan has done relatively well compared to its neighbours and has managed to do this whilst avoiding a lockdown, Yasmin Qureshi added.

The Chair of the APPG Pakistan said, “I am dismayed at the government’s decision to keep Pakistan on the travel red list whilst removing other countries in the Middle East and South Asia region. Pakistan has no variant of concern reported and cases remain relatively low when compared with India and the UK yet is punished unnecessarily.”

“These changes point to one thing and one thing only – government politicking. The government has opted to remove India now to best prepare them for trade negotiations and is not based on data nor science.”

She said, “These travel restrictions are wreaking havoc with people across the United Kingdom. The Pakistani diaspora totals around 1.1mn in the UK and I have been inundated with correspondence which details students unable to access their courses because of punitive and extortionate quarantine costs and children unable to see their often sick parents and grandparents.”

Labour MP for Bradford West Naz Shah said, “The last time this govt favoured political choices rather than science and risked our nation’s Covid efforts, it failed to place India on the Red list.”

“That led to the Delta Variant becoming the most prominent Covid variant in the UK. Whilst families have been forced away from loved ones for months, it is unacceptable for decisions to be made in such ways,” she added.

https://www.geo.tv/latest/363587-british-lawmakers-slam-govt-for-keeping-pakistan-on-travel-ban-list

 

[Captain]

The problem is nothing can be done about it either... If people in the parliament cannot be heard, we general public stands no chance in Democracy... Its not the matter of holidays for many of us... We haven't seen our older and sick relatives for months on end now.
All i have is a sheer disgust for this Joker led government who's heads are so up the Modi's backside that they cannot see anything around.

 

[PakLFC]

I don't care what they do with India. They should for sure removed Pak from the red list too.

 

[cricketjoshila]

So pakistan wants to be removed from the red list because India has been removed. Or is there another reason?

 

[mazkhan]

So pakistan wants to be removed from the red list because India has been removed. Or is there another reason?

No its a massive worry for us uk pakistanis because being in red list means paying the hotel quarantine which is increasing to 2000 pounds , its preventing uk pakistanis to meet family abroad , or go to funerals or marriages in pakistan .

 

[street cricketer]

All one needs to do is to have a look at the graphs, the headlines regarding covid in one's country or at things like the covid positivity rate, vaccination rate, etc.





India got ravaged by the delta variant but the worst is behind now (hopefully). India's test positivity rate is at 2.5% while Pakistan's is above 9%. India also vaccinates three times more than Pakistan does, even accounting for the population difference.

Most importantly, Pakistan does way few tests. I mean, Pakistan with a population of around 225M people does around 60k tests per day. Kerala, a small state in India, with 35M people does 2 lakhs tests per day. There's no conspiracy here. Besides, I believe India is still in red list for countries like USA, Canada, etc.

 

[cricketjoshila]

No its a massive worry for us uk pakistanis because being in red list means paying the hotel quarantine which is increasing to 2000 pounds , its preventing uk pakistanis to meet family abroad , or go to funerals or marriages in pakistan .

That's indeed a big issue. But why was this raised only after India was removed from the red list?

 

[DeadlyVenom]

All one needs to do is to have a look at the graphs, the headlines regarding covid in one's country or at things like the covid positivity rate, vaccination rate, etc.

View attachment 110912

View attachment 110913

India got ravaged by the delta variant but the worst is behind now (hopefully). India's test positivity rate is at 2.5% while Pakistan's is above 9%. India also vaccinates three times more than Pakistan does, even accounting for the population difference.

Most importantly, Pakistan does way few tests. I mean, Pakistan with a population of around 225M people does around 60k tests per day. Kerala, a small state in India, with 35M people does 2 lakhs tests per day. There's no conspiracy here. Besides, I believe India is still in red list for countries like USA, Canada, etc.

Yeah this makes sense.

 

[PetroDollars]

All one needs to do is to have a look at the graphs, the headlines regarding covid in one's country or at things like the covid positivity rate, vaccination rate, etc.

View attachment 110912

View attachment 110913

India got ravaged by the delta variant but the worst is behind now (hopefully). India's test positivity rate is at 2.5% while Pakistan's is above 9%. India also vaccinates three times more than Pakistan does, even accounting for the population difference.

Most importantly, Pakistan does way few tests. I mean, Pakistan with a population of around 225M people does around 60k tests per day. Kerala, a small state in India, with 35M people does 2 lakhs tests per day. There's no conspiracy here. Besides, I believe India is still in red list for countries like USA, Canada, etc.

Look at the graphs for South Africa, would be even better and more vaccinations but its still on the red list.

This is more to do with trade relationships and the reason why the delta virus snuck itself into the UK was because the gov. was not willing to put it on the red list in the first place.

The decison to move india to amber is ludicrous.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Look at the graphs for South Africa, would be even better and more vaccinations but its still on the red list.

This is more to do with trade relationships and the reason why the delta virus snuck itself into the UK was because the gov. was not willing to put it on the red list in the first place.

The decison to move india to amber is ludicrous.

Completely agree, but the majority of Pakistani criticism is centred around India being allowed and Pakistan excluded.

I think a far more reasonable argument is that both should remain on the red list.

I fully sympathise with people who have travelled to Pakistan and are stuck, but apart from a minority of cases the travel isn't essential ( I don't consider travel for a wedding essential).

And lets be even clearer. The majority of people stuck in Pakistan ( and Astaghfirallah it pains me to say this) are no use to either the UK or Pakistan, people on benefits and fake disabilities. Whereas from a UK point of view at least opening travel with India has potential economic benefits.

 

[PetroDollars]

Completely agree, but the majority of Pakistani criticism is centred around India being allowed and Pakistan excluded.

I think a far more reasonable argument is that both should remain on the red list.

I fully sympathise with people who have travelled to Pakistan and are stuck, but apart from a minority of cases the travel isn't essential ( I don't consider travel for a wedding essential).

And lets be even clearer. The majority of people stuck in Pakistan ( and Astaghfirallah it pains me to say this) are no use to either the UK or Pakistan, people on benefits and fake disabilities. Whereas from a UK point of view at least opening travel with India has potential economic benefits.

This is what i ment, both should stay on the red list.

Gov. should do something about hotel costs too, instead of helping they make it worse by increasing the prices, this is because people who test postive have to extend there stay and they refuse to pay up, so everyone now bears the extra cost.

Why cant they just qurantine at home, with a tracking braclet or something.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

This is what i ment, both should stay on the red list.

Gov. should do something about hotel costs too, instead of helping they make it worse by increasing the prices, this is because people who test postive have to extend there stay and they refuse to pay up, so everyone now bears the extra cost.

Why cant they just qurantine at home, with a tracking braclet or something.

The hotel quarantine is an absolute scam unfortunately but most things this tory government has done during the pandemic have smacked of corruption.

 

[street cricketer]

Look at the graphs for South Africa, would be even better and more vaccinations but its still on the red list.

This is more to do with trade relationships and the reason why the delta virus snuck itself into the UK was because the gov. was not willing to put it on the red list in the first place.

The decison to move india to amber is ludicrous.

India's test positivity rate - 2.5%
Pakistan - 9.2%
South Africa - ~20%

 

[Kroll]

Well the no. of signatures for the 'take Pakistan off the red list' petition has gone past 100k mark. This means it now has to be debated in parliament thanks to the British Pakistani community mobilising very quickly on this nonsense.

Taking India out and leaving Pakistan in is clearly a political move and as a result discriminatory at best. We the people won't stand for it and this corrupt Tory govt. needs to be taught a lesson.

#ToriesOutMigrantsIn

 

[90MPH]

Absolutely ridiculous decision.

I mean if India is coming off the red list (where the damn variant originated from and is causing havoc across the globe now) then why the hell is Pakistan not off the list ?

Pakistan went on the red list before India, and then they come off it before Pakistan.

It doesn’t make any sense, other than the desperate need from certain groups that are aligned with big corporations and trade.

Anyone thinking otherwise is extremely naive and frankly stupid.

This current UK government is a circus, led by a clown who has no idea what he doing other than what his rich donors want.

 

[PakLFC]

The influential Pakistani's in the UK like Lord Nazir need to get involved here. We so many people stuck in there we must demand for Pakistan to be removed from this stupid red list.

 

[cricketjoshila]

The only argument i see is that India is out, so take pakistan out. Wonder if such arguments hold any water outside the pakistani community.

 

[street cricketer]

Looks like people need to understand covid related medical terminologies and its significance before making political opinions.

 

[Captain]

The only argument i see is that India is out, so take pakistan out. Wonder if such arguments hold any water outside the pakistani community.

You need to know why pakistan was put in the RED list to begin with and than you will understand why people relate pakistan to India's ommission from Red to Amber.

 

[cricketjoshila]

You need to know why pakistan was put in the RED list to begin with and than you will understand why people relate pakistan to India's ommission from Red to Amber.

Pakistan's TPR is near 10 percent and testing is abysmally low. Just 2.7cr doses of vaccines given a large number of them Chinese.

India has a TPR of 2.5 percent and close to 2mn tests being done a day. 50cr or 500mn vaccine dosages given and most of them AZ.

There is a reason why UK has removed India from the red list .

 

[Manunited18]

USA has India on the so called Red list and Pakistan not.

 

[Captain]

Pakistan's TPR is near 10 percent and testing is abysmally low. Just 2.7cr doses of vaccines given a large number of them Chinese.

India has a TPR of 2.5 percent and close to 2mn tests being done a day. 50cr or 500mn vaccine dosages given and most of them AZ.

There is a reason why UK has removed India from the red list .

You are missing the point here, all of this is irrelevant... I again want to take you back to how pakistan ended up on the RED list to begin with...Pull out the covid statistics from those times it will be easier for you to understand as to why we're all stirred up. Otherwise you can keep repeating yourself and you wouldn't know.

 

[KingKhanWC]

USA has India on the so called Red list and Pakistan not.

Makes sense.

It was India which created the Delta variant, also known as the Indian variant. I think this was due to their Hindu festival where people were jumping in the river together.

Many Pakistanis are travelling to amber countries before coming back to the UK.

 

[street cricketer]

You are missing the point here, all of this is irrelevant... I again want to take you back to how pakistan ended up on the RED list to begin with...Pull out the covid statistics from those times it will be easier for you to understand as to why we're all stirred up. Otherwise you can keep repeating yourself and you wouldn't know.

I saw a recent interview on social media where one of the British politicians answered why Pakistan ended on the red list before India. Basically what he said was that they simply couldn't trust the numbers from the third world countries who most definitely were faking the numbers and even the results of the tests. Obviously he didn't say exactly this but the gist of his speech was this. He then said that they kept testing arrivals from each country who landed in the UK, and that Pakistan had a high proportion of people who on arrival to the UK tested covid positive, more than people who were arriving to the UK from India and testing positive (this was before it went haywire in India).

This makes sense because if I was managing a developed country, I would not at all trust the numbers from the third world countries because they're not only testing extremely less, but they're also faking their numbers more compared to the developed nations.

 

[ahsan17]

Pakistan's TPR is near 10 percent and testing is abysmally low. Just 2.7cr doses of vaccines given a large number of them Chinese.

India has a TPR of 2.5 percent and close to 2mn tests being done a day. 50cr or 500mn vaccine dosages given and most of them AZ.

There is a reason why UK has removed India from the red list .

Your logic makes zero sense, given US and Canada have India on their red list but not Pakistan. People are rightfully being suspicious because of when Pakistan was initially added to the UK red list but not India, which turned out to be a political decision.

US in fact has UK and Schengen area on their red list, so your argument around vaccinations don't make sense either.


Also I can only guess why you are quoting outdated Pakistani vaccination figures but quoting up to date Indian ones.

 

[OneManShow]

I saw a recent interview on social media where one of the British politicians answered why Pakistan ended on the red list before India. Basically what he said was that they simply couldn't trust the numbers from the third world countries who most definitely were faking the numbers and even the results of the tests. Obviously he didn't say exactly this but the gist of his speech was this. He then said that they kept testing arrivals from each country who landed in the UK, and that Pakistan had a high proportion of people who on arrival to the UK tested covid positive, more than people who were arriving to the UK from India and testing positive (this was before it went haywire in India).

This makes sense because if I was managing a developed country, I would not at all trust the numbers from the third world countries because they're not only testing extremely less, but they're also faking their numbers more compared to the developed nations.

This was totally debunked during the time of the decision to put pakisan on the red list. Arrivals from Bangladesh, India and Pakistan showed similar positivity rates on arrival yet Pakistan and Bangladesh were placed on red list and India was not. At the time Indian cases were many multiples higher than those of Pakistan/Bangladesh. The decision to omit India was purely political and the UK suffered a third wave due to this. At this current time there is more of a case for Pakistan to remain on the red list due to continued low testing rates and higher positivity rates but back in April the decision to put PK on there and not India was a joke.

 

[street cricketer]

This was totally debunked during the time of the decision to put pakisan on the red list. Arrivals from Bangladesh, India and Pakistan showed similar positivity rates on arrival yet Pakistan and Bangladesh were placed on red list and India was not. At the time Indian cases were many multiples higher than those of Pakistan/Bangladesh. The decision to omit India was purely political and the UK suffered a third wave due to this. At this current time there is more of a case for Pakistan to remain on the red list due to continued low testing rates and higher positivity rates but back in April the decision to put PK on there and not India was a joke.

I'm just going by whatever that politician said. I'm not familiar with British politicians except the major ones, so can't remember his name.

That said, is there any news link to show that arrivals from India, Pakistan and Bangladesh all showed similar positive cases on arrival? Not arguing but just want to know.

 

[cricketjoshila]

You are missing the point here, all of this is irrelevant... I again want to take you back to how pakistan ended up on the RED list to begin with...Pull out the covid statistics from those times it will be easier for you to understand as to why we're all stirred up. Otherwise you can keep repeating yourself and you wouldn't know.

Pulling out covid statistics of the past will not help make the decision today.

 

[OneManShow]

I'm just going by whatever that politician said. I'm not familiar with British politicians except the major ones, so can't remember his name.

That said, is there any news link to show that arrivals from India, Pakistan and Bangladesh all showed similar positive cases on arrival? Not arguing but just want to know.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/57172793.amp

They show that between 25 March and 7 April, the proportion of travellers testing positive for coronavirus on arrival in the UK were:

from Bangladesh 3.7%from India 5.1%from Pakistan 6.2%

At the time, the variant identified in India was neither a VUI nor a VOC, so the tests were looking for the variants identified in South Africa and Brazil.

And the proportions in which they were found were:

from Bangladesh 75% from India 52% from Pakistan 2%

In short - the UK government got this one wrong - the data did not match the rubbish they spouted and the decision not to put India on the redlist earlier cost lives - in the end Boris still didn't get his trip to India even though photo op trade deals were put before public health

 

[Kroll]

Makes sense.

It was India which created the Delta variant, also known as the Indian variant. I think this was due to their Hindu festival where people were jumping in the river together.

Many Pakistanis are travelling to amber countries before coming back to the UK.

I doubt that currently, as most of the amber countries have their own restrictions such as allowing only their own citizens etc.

When they closed up Turkey, Egypt and Bahrain (at the time), they effectively shut down all detours leaving quarantine as the only viable option.

With the UAE and Bahrain back to amber, they can look at these options again but will depend on their own entry requirements and UAE also is expensive so might not make much of a financial difference between quarantining and staying in Dubai for 10 days.

 

[Kroll]

I saw a recent interview on social media where one of the British politicians answered why Pakistan ended on the red list before India. Basically what he said was that they simply couldn't trust the numbers from the third world countries who most definitely were faking the numbers and even the results of the tests. Obviously he didn't say exactly this but the gist of his speech was this. He then said that they kept testing arrivals from each country who landed in the UK, and that Pakistan had a high proportion of people who on arrival to the UK tested covid positive, more than people who were arriving to the UK from India and testing positive (this was before it went haywire in India).

This makes sense because if I was managing a developed country, I would not at all trust the numbers from the third world countries because they're not only testing extremely less, but they're also faking their numbers more compared to the developed nations.

Okay so he said this and he said that...

What they need to do then is publish the results of each nation's test results that's going through the UK's hotel quarantine system.

If they're so adamant about putting certain countries on the red list, this can go a long way to proving why this is the case. We can then get a clearer picture by comparing side by side.

 

[street cricketer]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/57172793.amp

They show that between 25 March and 7 April, the proportion of travellers testing positive for coronavirus on arrival in the UK were:

from Bangladesh 3.7%from India 5.1%from Pakistan 6.2%

At the time, the variant identified in India was neither a VUI nor a VOC, so the tests were looking for the variants identified in South Africa and Brazil.

And the proportions in which they were found were:

from Bangladesh 75% from India 52% from Pakistan 2%

In short - the UK government got this one wrong - the data did not match the rubbish they spouted and the decision not to put India on the redlist earlier cost lives - in the end Boris still didn't get his trip to India even though photo op trade deals were put before public health

In the same link you've given me, this was posted in the end.

Update: Since this piece was published on 19 May, new government figures have been released on the positivity rate of travellers arriving in the UK. In one period - from 25 February to 10 March - the rate for arrivals from India was 1.6% compared with 5.0% from Pakistan and 1.5% from Bangladesh.

So initially ~1.6% of passengers tested positive from India and Bangladesh while 5% of passengers from Pakistan tested positive. This was before the 2nd wave hit in India. This was also around the time the UK government had apparently given repeated advisories asking people not to travel for weddings and non essential travel, particularly to British Pakistanis as data showed more percentage of people travelled from UK to Pakistan than to India or Bangladesh, so much so that the UK variant got detected in Mirpur.

According to the report, around 32,000 travellers flew from the UK to Pakistan in January 2021, out of which nearly 15,000 British Pakistanis went from Manchester airport, almost half the number of travellers who flew to Pakistan in the same month last year before the pandemic began. For India, the drop was larger with an 82% decrease in the number of travellers as compared to January 2020.

https://www.hindustantimes.com/worl...velling-for-weddings-101617543704216-amp.html

So more percentage of people travelling to Pakistan despite repeated advisories against the same from the government and more percentage of people arriving from Pakistan testing postive seems to have pushed Pakistan to red list for travel. Though you could argue placing Bangladesh on red list before India was based on economic concerns as Bangladesh seems to have had a lower percentage of arrivals testing positive than India, more percentage of people arriving from Pakistan seem to have tested positive than India even when India's arrivals positivity rate shot up to 5.1% between 25th March and 7th April (the figure was 6.2% for arrivals from Pakistan during the same period as you have mentioned).

One can say India should have been put in the red list much earlier, but don't think it's fair to say India should have been put on the red list before Pakistan given the figures and context.

 

[street cricketer]

Okay so he said this and he said that...

What they need to do then is publish the results of each nation's test results that's going through the UK's hotel quarantine system.

If they're so adamant about putting certain countries on the red list, this can go a long way to proving why this is the case. We can then get a clearer picture by comparing side by side.

They seem to be available in this link.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...s-test-and-trace-england-6-may-to-12-may-2021

The breakdown for each countries are also mentioned in the bbc article [MENTION=149201]OneManShow[/MENTION] posted.

 

[ahmedzee]

We all know it has more to do with politics than anything else. The indian variant was and is rampant in India, yet UK didn’t ban them when it was first discovered after Hindu deities bathed naked along the river. There was no Indian (or delta) variant in Pakistan when pakistan was red listed back in the spring. Cases are still lot lower and Pakistan has tackled this Indian variant well recently.

So all in all, it has everything to do with politics and regional alliance than anything else.

 

[Kroll]

They seem to be available in this link.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...s-test-and-trace-england-6-may-to-12-may-2021

The breakdown for each countries are also mentioned in the bbc article [MENTION=149201]OneManShow[/MENTION] posted.

Thanks for the links but it shows the total no. of people going through the hotel quarantine system but not presenting each country testing positive either on day 2 or day 8. Please kindly forward the link to show this. I'm not being lazy but I can't find it myself.

As regards to the article posted by one man, these are stats claimed by Hancock who suffice to say has been booted out of his role as health secretary. They are up to the 7 April and the article states that Hancock's claims are not supported.

There is only a difference of 1% in positivity rated between India and Pakistan up to that point but shows that the variant percentage is much higher in travellers from India than Pakistan which is what the hotel quarantine system was set up to deter.

I need to see the current positivity rates (official govt) from the MQH system to be confident that indeed Pakistan and not other nations should be on the red list. But all I can see is dodging and wild claims without merit.

So all in all, I smell ** as we're not provided with the evidence.

 

[MenInG]

:
UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson has said that his government is looking at data related to Pakistan’s continued “red” listing under the coronavirus restrictions.

Johnson made these remarks during a conversation with a Pakistani delegation at the Royal Military Academy Sandhurst, where he was attending the Sovereign’s Parade as the Queen’s representative, to watch 243 cadets commissioned as army officers.

The UK PM’s remarks indicate that there is a chance that Pakistan may be moved to the "amber list" in a few weeks.

The Pakistani delegation included Moazzam Ali Khan and three other diplomats.

Also read: Pakistan slams UK for keeping country on travel red list

According to official sources, Johnson's remarks were in response to the Pakistani delegation raising the issue of the "red list" and how inconvenient it was for thousands of Pakistanis.

The PM assured the delegation that his government was looking at the data and "considering possibilities", based on scientific advice.

Johnson said that he is looking forward to Prime Minister Imran Khan’s visit to the United Kingdom soon. The Pakistani delegation told the UK premier that the South Asian country, too, is looking forward to the visit.

The Pakistani delegation was attending the annual ceremony to honour Pakistani cadets who attend the prestigious academy every year. Two Pakistani cadets passed out yesterday from the military academy.

The prime minister paid tribute to the military cadets for completing their training at Sandhurst.

https://tribune.com.pk/story/2314487/pakistan-may-be-moved-from-uks-red-to-amber-list

 

[MenInG]

Federal Minister for Human Rights Shireen Mazari on Monday slammed the UK government for keeping Pakistan on its Red List of countries facing travel restrictions, saying that they never asked Pakistan for data related to the country's coronavirus situation to review their decision.

The minister was responding to a report in The News that quoted sources in the UK government as saying London had kept Pakistan on its Red List as the country had not provided UK authorities data on vaccination and testing.

In a sharply-worded tweet, Mazari said the UK government is dominated by 'Indophiles'.

"Ridiculous! UK govt, dominated by Indophiles and despite globally documented India's continuing disastrous handling of the COVID pandemic, moved India to the Amber List but keeps Pakistan on the red; then under pressure from Opposition MPs, gives feeble excuse that Pakistan didn't share data," she tweeted.

She further defended her stance, saying British authorities never asked for the data as the National Command and Operation Centre (NCOC) has "the most centralised & daily updated data bases anywhere & data shared with UK HC".

She criticised the UK government for 'shifting goalposts', noting that it had earlier said Pakistan had been placed on the Red List because more passengers from Pakistan compared to India were testing positive for COVID.

Earlier, British Prime Minister Boris Johnson had said that the country was looking into Pakistan's placement on the Red List.

The News had learnt that PM Boris Johnson made these remarks during a conversation with a Pakistani delegation at the Royal Military Academy Sandhurst where he was attending the Sovereign’s Parade as the Queen’s representative, to watch 243 cadets commissioned as army officers.

The PM’s remarks indicated that there was a chance that Pakistan may be moved to the Amber List in a few weeks.

The Pakistani delegation included top envoy Moazzam Ali Khan and three other diplomats.

According to official sources, PM Johnson's remarks were in response to the Pakistani delegation raising the issue of the "red list" and how inconvenient it was for thousands of Pakistanis.

Johnson had assured the delegation that his government was looking at the data and "considering possibilities" based on scientific advice.

PM Johnson had said that he is looking forward to Prime Minister Imran Khan’s visit to the United Kingdom soon. The Pakistani delegation told the UK premier that the South Asian country, too, is looking forward to the visit.

https://www.geo.tv/latest/364295-pa...govt-never-asked-for-data-says-shireen-mazari

 

[MenInG]

LONDON: Pakistan’s High Commissioner to the UK Moazzam Ahmad Khan on Tuesday said he is optimistic that the British government will remove Pakistan from its red list in the upcoming travel update on August 26.

In a briefing to journalists here, Mr Khan outlined the mission’s engagement with British authorities on their decision to keep travel from Pakistan restricted, and said officials here should re-examine data from Pakistan taking all elements into account.

He also dismissed reports of a communication gap between the two countries on the Covid-19 issue.

“We feel the system they [British authorities] have adopted to assess Pakistan does not present an accurate picture of our Covid-19 situation, and this needs to be corrected,” he said.

“This is not criticism, but it is important to share our point of view. There is no communication gap, we are constantly in touch with them. In fact, I had an opportunity to speak to Prime Minister [Boris] Johnson and brought it to his attention that keeping Pakistan on the red list has left both people in Pakistan and the diaspora frustrated and disappointed. He said ‘we are looking into it’.”

Mr Khan said that two of the key reservations communicated by British authorities regarding Pakistan are insufficient genomic surveillance of new variants, and low testing. He added that lack of data was not a concern raised by UK authorities.

The high commissioner said: “Perhaps comparatively this [lower testing] may be the case, but we feel the sample size of our daily tests is adequate to make informed decisions.”

He said that alongside daily cases data, the British authorities have been requested to look at daily deaths. “Those cannot be hidden, and the demand for oxygen and ventilators too cannot be concealed. So their decision should not be based on one thing, but after considering all factors. We feel when assessing Pakistan’s situation, all elements were not considered.”

Mr Khan said the UK government’s main aim was to prevent entry of infected passengers, especially the entry of a new variant, into the UK. He felt that through PCR and antigen tests, this goal could be achieved.

“They are concerned about new variants [coming into the UK] and say our genomic surveillance is not adequate. Of course, there may be room for more work, but our data gives us a clear picture. And our assessment shows that the variant of concern in Pakistan is not Beta, but mainly the UK and then Delta variant.”

He praised Pakistani authorities’ efforts to control Covid-19, and said the work done to contain the disease in Pakistan was “exemplary”. “We have fared better than stronger countries, some of which are on the green or amber list.”

Published in Dawn, August 11th, 2021

 

[Rajdeep]

I dont understand why Pakistani MPs in britain continously dragging India into it. It looks like their only justification is since India has been moved out of red list, you must move Pakistan too. Not sure this is the correct line of reasoning.

I totally understand the sentiment of Pakistani citizens in UK. I myself have not been to India or met my parents since covid started. This red list and the cost of hotel quarantine is a joke. But Pakistani MPs should argue most on the line of why Pakistan should be removed from red list rather than why you moved India and not us.

 

[King_Kohli]

Dr Sultan addresses UK's reasoning for keeping Pakistan on the red list

ISLAMABAD:
Special Assistant to the Prime Minister on Health Dr Faisal Sultan has written a letter to the United Kingdom’s Secretary of State for Health Sajid Javid. The letter was regarding the UK government’s recent decision to retain Pakistan on the 'Red List', while moving other countries, such as India, to the 'Amber List'.

He addressed, in particular, the available information that became the basis for the UK’s decision.

In his letter, Dr Sultan provided data that compared “key indicators from Pakistan and some other countries in the region which currently sit in the ‘Amber List’ in efforts to highlight some obvious disparities”.

The table showed that Pakistan had the lowest daily cases, daily deaths, and total deaths per million people in the region. It further indicated that Pakistan had higher daily vaccination per 100 people, within the region.

Pakistan’s data was compared to that of India, Iran and Iraq, all of whom are on the 'Amber List' and have statistically fared worse, according to Dr Sultan.

With regards to the UK’s concern about Pakistan’s testing rates, he said that “the number of tests being done are a large enough sample size to be a sensitive and accurate barometer of the epidemic”.

According to Dr Sultan, the number of tests has “accurately reflected the rise and fall of all the waves seen so far”.

The SAPM on health also listed the various metrics that enhance testing rates and have “risen and fallen in a coherent fashion and with latencies and intervals which fit perfectly well with how the disease progresses clinically”.

He further mentioned that all data and statistics regarding Covid in Pakistan are uploaded daily at the National Command and Operations Centre (NCOC) website.

‘Genomic Surveillance’

He, however, admitted that Pakistan has “limitations in whole genome sequencing throughput” in comparison to the UK, who he dubbed a 'leader' in this arena.

However, the National Institute of Health in Pakistan – along with other collaborators – has sequenced 854 samples during July and August 2021, the details of which are regularly shared with the World Health Organization, he said.

The letter noted that the Delta (Indian) variant is the dominant strain in Pakistan while the Beta variant’s prevalence is no greater than “the global average”.

The premier's aide also offered to share Pakistan’s data results with the UK in real-time to provide better insight.

“However, to introduce genomic sequencing as a performance measure and cite it as a reason to deny travel from Pakistan appears to introduce an unnecessarily large metric," he said adding that security from Covid-19 could be achieved through more target measures.

Dr Sultan questioned if all countries are being subjected to the metric of genomic surveillance.

Pakistan’s Covid response

The SAPM highlighted some salient features of Pakistan’s response to Covid-19, which included “sustainable, data-driven responses and restrictions to bring in a state of normalcy” while pursuing vaccinations.

He mentioned that “vaccinations remain a core pillar of Pakistan’s strategy”, with improving vaccine supplies and the daily vaccination rate increasing to one million doses. 29.7 million people have been vaccinated, with 10.6 million fully vaccinated, he cited.

“The aim is to vaccinate 100 million persons by the end of 2021”, Dr Sultan claimed.

The letter further discussed that the immunization database is linked to the national digital identity and allows for reliable real-time capture of immunization data. This provides visibility of the vaccination drive across the country and ensures accurate data management.

Dr Sultan also spoke of Pakistan’s “centralized and coordinated data management mechanism for testing, contact tracing, quarantine, hospital bed occupancy, deaths and vaccination”, the integration of which into the country's pandemic policy has played a vital role in managing the epidemic.

Furthermore, in efforts to control the influx of the virus via travel, Dr Sultan stated that Pakistan requires pre-travel PCR tests and a rapid antigen test on arrival, including a quarantine period for those who test positive.

Accolades

The SAPM underlined that Pakistan’s anti-Covid efforts have been recognised by the United Nations General Assembly President Volkan Bozkir, who suggested that the nation was a “good example” for the world to follow.

“WHO Director-General Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus thought that 'Pakistan was among countries from whom the international community should learn how to deal with the Covid-19 pandemic'”, he added.

The SAPM further mentioned Forbes magazine’s appreciation of Pakistan’s efforts to stabilize and grow the economy during the pandemic, and The Economist ranking Pakistan as 3rd among the best-performing countries for handling the pandemic.

“The World Economic Forum celebrated ‘Pakistan Strategy Day’ to endorse Pakistan’s strategy of handling both corona and the economy”, he said.

‘The way ahead’

According to Dr Sultan, the “shared objective” was to reduce the risk that is involved with international travel.

With regards to Pakistani travellers, “this can be achieved with interventions focused directly on the traveller, rather than on other metrics that will be different and difficult to compare across different countries”, he stated.

Dr Sultan proposed a three-pronged approach of having a WHO-approved Covid-19 vaccine, a PCR test 72 hours prior to departure, and a rapid antigen test at the airport before departure.

Altogether, “these measures ought to be able to provide the health security that we are all collectively seeking”, he wrote.

Dr Sultan assured the UK Secretary of State for Health that he would be happy todiscuss with British experts, the best way to take this forward.

He asserted that Pakistan had no interest in allowing “those of its nationals who pose a health risk to other societies to travel abroad, any more than” allowing entry to those who pose a health risk to Pakistan.

“This is a shared global objective”, he stated.

https://tribune.com.pk/story/2315079/dr-sulta-addresses-uks-reasoning-for-keeping-pakistan-on-the-red-list

 

[Captain]

The next travel review day is upon us soon (25th August)... I still have no hope of being moved out of Red list, but also wish at the same time that i'm wrong...

 

[gazza619]

The next travel review day is upon us soon (25th August)... I still have no hope of being moved out of Red list, but also wish at the same time that i'm wrong...

I heard ban will be lifted. Lets see.

 

[Varun]

I dont understand why Pakistani MPs in britain continously dragging India into it. It looks like their only justification is since India has been moved out of red list, you must move Pakistan too. Not sure this is the correct line of reasoning.

I totally understand the sentiment of Pakistani citizens in UK. I myself have not been to India or met my parents since covid started. This red list and the cost of hotel quarantine is a joke. But Pakistani MPs should argue most on the line of why Pakistan should be removed from red list rather than why you moved India and not us.

To you expect anything else from these two aunties?

 

[mazkhan]

The reason why india is dragged into it is because of the double standards

India is responsible for the delta variant it is actually originally called Indian variant.

Its spread in the UK was because of indians and thousands of people coming from India at the airport .

The covid in India was much worse with dead bodies being dumped in rivers , States running out of firewood, open funeral pyres , dogs scavenging remains everyone in the world saw these scenes.

Yet India has been taken of the red list and pakistan still remains.

Just shows its a political decision

 

[rockyboy2018]

The reason why india is dragged into it is because of the double standards

India is responsible for the delta variant it is actually originally called Indian variant.

Its spread in the UK was because of indians and thousands of people coming from India at the airport .

The covid in India was much worse with dead bodies being dumped in rivers , States running out of firewood, open funeral pyres , dogs scavenging remains everyone in the world saw these scenes.

Yet India has been taken of the red list and pakistan still remains.

Just shows its a political decision

Why is it that Pakistan has poor relationships with the rest of the world?
Even with a honey-type relationship with China it would be far easier for an Indian to secure a visa for China than let's say a Pakistani?

 

[ahsan17]

Why is it that Pakistan has poor relationships with the rest of the world?
Even with a honey-type relationship with China it would be far easier for an Indian to secure a visa for China than let's say a Pakistani?

Both of those statements seem like your own claims and opinions. Not sure if I agree with either one.

 

[mastimasti]

Why is it that Pakistan has poor relationships with the rest of the world?
Even with a honey-type relationship with China it would be far easier for an Indian to secure a visa for China than let's say a Pakistani?

It's not about poor relations, it's about the UK having signed a deal with India in 2015 under Cameron where India would provide exceptionally cheap labour to the UK market. This opened up the UK borders to the largest numbers of Indian migrants ever. Cheap labour for work in multiple sectors. Heck, you land at Heathrow airport and the majority of staff is Indian (quite comforting for me haha).

Now, the UK needs this labour and their travel can not be restricted for too long. It is the same with the UK never truly stopping travel from China, we need the thousands of chinese students coming into the country and buying products and pushing the economy.

this is how the world works son

 

[Kroll]

It's not about poor relations, it's about the UK having signed a deal with India in 2015 under Cameron where India would provide exceptionally cheap labour to the UK market. This opened up the UK borders to the largest numbers of Indian migrants ever. Cheap labour for work in multiple sectors. Heck, you land at Heathrow airport and the majority of staff is Indian (quite comforting for me haha).

Now, the UK needs this labour and their travel can not be restricted for too long. It is the same with the UK never truly stopping travel from China, we need the thousands of chinese students coming into the country and buying products and pushing the economy.

this is how the world works son

Superb post about the reasons as I was unaware of that specific labour deal between UK and
India. And yes, its kind of comforting when you land at Heathrow and its mostly south asian staff.

I had to quarantine at a hotel near Heathrow and it was all Indian/Pakistani security guards. A lot of quarantined guests were also Indian.

With MQH prices shooting up, UK could be making a lot of money from these people but I guess they also need to keep India happy for the longer term economic and political benefits.

 

[mastimasti]

Superb post about the reasons as I was unaware of that specific labour deal between UK and
India. And yes, its kind of comforting when you land at Heathrow and its mostly south asian staff.

I had to quarantine at a hotel near Heathrow and it was all Indian/Pakistani security guards. A lot of quarantined guests were also Indian.

With MQH prices shooting up, UK could be making a lot of money from these people but I guess they also need to keep India happy for the longer term economic and political benefits.

Exactly! It's why Modi was invited with a red carpet and RAF flypass, for this exact reason. India is valuable as long as it's recruitment is cheap.

There are so many IT professionals from India in England, or the wider UK now, getting paid a fraction of what a UK citizen would be.

Win win for the economy while people are suffering due to Covid.

 

[Kroll]

The next travel review day is upon us soon (25th August)... I still have no hope of being moved out of Red list, but also wish at the same time that i'm wrong...

I was looking for that update but apparently its tomorrow. Lets see what they do.

 

[PakLFC]

I feel they will keep Pak on the red list for a few more months. Turkey will probably be removed tomorrow.

 

[Captain]

As expected pakistan stays on Red... It is not going to come out of it in this Tory led government.

 

[Kroll]

Yep no change as expected and the knock on effect is that they've kept Turkey on red when there was a sense it would go to amber.

They know that if Turkey was changed, travellers from Pakistan would use that as a quarantine base before flying back to the UK. Feel for all the people that are separated or are stuck out there.

 

[MenInG]

Pakistan continues to remain in the red list, as the UK government announced its latest travel review on Thursday.

It remains in the list for failing to meet the requirements on genomic surveillance capability, transmission risk, and variants of concern.

Pakistan was hopeful it will be moved to the amber list in the latest review, with government officials – including PM Imran Khan – urging the UK government to move the country to the amber travel list.

But it seems the diplomatic offensive failed and the misery of thousands, who are separated from family, will continue.

According to the latest update, seven countries, namely, Canada, Denmark, Finland, Liechtenstein, Lithuania, Switzerland, and the Azores will move into the green list starting 4am on Monday, August 30.

Thailand and Montenegro, on the other hand, will be added to the red list at the same time, "reflecting the increased case rates in these countries and the higher risk that travel from these countries poses to UK public health", said the notice.

"The high rates combined with lower levels of published genomic surveillance in Thailand and Montenegro than other countries mean that an outbreak of a new variant or existing variants of concern (VOC) or variants under investigation (VUI) cannot be easily identified before it is imported and seeded across the UK," it added.

According to the UK government, passengers arriving in the UK from red list destinations "will need to isolate for 10 days in a managed quarantine facility and follow the necessary testing requirements".

"The data for all countries will be kept under review and the government will not hesitate to take action should the data show that countries’ risk ratings have changed," it said.

GEO

 

[KingKhanWC]

Yep no change as expected and the knock on effect is that they've kept Turkey on red when there was a sense it would go to amber.

They know that if Turkey was changed, travellers from Pakistan would use that as a quarantine base before flying back to the UK. Feel for all the people that are separated or are stuck out there.

They can use Dubai or Abu Dhabi, its on Amber.

The whole system is a joke. Forcing people to stay in prison style hotels when they can stay at home is something out of a bad futuristic movie where a tyranical government is in charge. But its reality now.

 

[Kroll]

They can use Dubai or Abu Dhabi, its on Amber.

The whole system is a joke. Forcing people to stay in prison style hotels when they can stay at home is something out of a bad futuristic movie where a tyranical government is in charge. But its reality now.

Yeah true, someone was telling me that Dubai was quite expensive sort of negating going there but I think some cheap hotels can be picked up, similarly with Bahrain.

However, doing a stop off always carries risk as countries can be slapped on the red list at each review so timing is important if this is the route someone wants to take.

And if everyone starts using Dubai as the quarantine base, then its likely to be slapped back on the red list. They did this with Turkey, Egypt and Bahrain

 

[wasimjunior]

They can use Dubai or Abu Dhabi, its on Amber.

The whole system is a joke. Forcing people to stay in prison style hotels when they can stay at home is something out of a bad futuristic movie where a tyranical government is in charge. But its reality now.

Dubai is not allowing people from Pak to enter.

 

[PakLFC]

So many Pak people unable to afford the quarantine fee are stuck there. It is so cruel for the British government fully well realising their desperation to stop these people from coming home. In addition they keep increasing the quarantine fee that is now well over £2k. It's ridiculous.

 

[Kroll]

Dubai is not allowing people from Pak to enter.

I think British passport holders can enter.

 

[Kroll]

So many Pak people unable to afford the quarantine fee are stuck there. It is so cruel for the British government fully well realising their desperation to stop these people from coming home. In addition they keep increasing the quarantine fee that is now well over £2k. It's ridiculous.

1 adult at £2,285 and 2 x adult at £3,715

I mean this is a real bad joke. If you think it can't get any worse, the company contracted to process the MQH booking is an absolute shambles.

If you have some spare time, check out the reviews for CTM. Not only are people highly distressed already but then having to deal with this company is making people go over the edge!

 

[cricketjoshila]

The argument that Pakistan be allowed because India is allowed, doesn't wash with most countries anymore.

Pakistan is stuck because of poor testing and little to no genome sequencing of the positive cases.

 

[Captain]

The argument that Pakistan be allowed because India is allowed, doesn't wash with most countries anymore.

Pakistan is stuck because of poor testing and little to no genome sequencing of the positive cases.

Sorry mate but you are so deluded... This is all political and not scientific... Offcourse you are still entitled to think the way you want to think... Case rates in the US and UK are much higher than anywhere else in the world. Yet Boris hasn't got balls to put Uncle Sam on Red list, whilst US has put a ban on UK travellers, visitors from Pak are allowed into the US because of the low case rates.

 

[Captain]

The argument that Pakistan be allowed because India is allowed, doesn't wash with most countries anymore.

Pakistan is stuck because of poor testing and little to no genome sequencing of the positive cases.

And by the way could you name any country apart from UK which allows Indians and not pakistanis because of the Covid case rates. Don't mention Israel because pakistan has no diplomatic ties with them.

 

[MenInG]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Disappointed with decision to retain&#55356;&#56821;&#55356;&#56816;on Red List. Entails continuing hardship for thousands of Pakistanis and British Pakistanis. Had shared all relevant data. Question mark over equity & consistency of criteria being employed!<a href="https://twitter.com/grantshapps?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@grantshapps</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/sajidjavid?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@sajidjavid</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/JimBethel?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@JimBethel</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/tariqahmadbt?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@tariqahmadbt</a></p>— Pakistan High Commission London (@PakistaninUK) <a href="https://twitter.com/PakistaninUK/status/1430952173274345477?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 26, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>