Pakistan versus India: The Battle of Emerging Pacers

[Titan24]

Historically Pakistan has been much ahead in the pace bowing department until last decade or so when India has also really started producing some world class pacers.

So what is on the offering form both the sides if we look at emerging (U-23) pacers.

Pakistan

Shaheen Shah
Naseem Shah
Muhammad Musa
Mohammad Hasnain
Akif Javed
Arshad Iqbal
Sameen Gul
Aamir Khan
Tahir Hussain
.....

India

Kamlesh Nagarkoti
Shivam Mavi
Khaleel Ahmed
Kartik Tyagi
Ishan Porel
Akash Singh
Sushant Mishra
Avesh Khan
.....

Please feel free to add any names on both sides.

So how are you guys looking at the future what are your predictions?

 

[ManFan]

Pakistan ahead at the moment.

I remember Nagarkoti and Shaheen was a comparison at the U-19 WC about two years ago.

Haven’t heard of Nagarkoti since.

 

[ataullah]

Pakistan ahead at the moment.

I remember Nagarkoti and Shaheen was a comparison at the U-19 WC about two years ago.

Haven’t heard of Nagarkoti since.

Nagarkoti been injured. Shaheen is different class to all emerging Pacers in world.

 

[Titan24]

Pakistan ahead at the moment.

I remember Nagarkoti and Shaheen was a comparison at the U-19 WC about two years ago.

Haven’t heard of Nagarkoti since.

Yes Nagarkoti was definitely impressive, has been struggling with injuries which isnt uncommon at a young age but will have to see how he comes back from that.

 

[tyron_woodley]

prasidh krishna

 

[nextover666666]

Pakistan easily a head

 

[RickyG]

Shaheen is heads and shoulders ahead of everyone. He has that Amir or Cummins thing about him. His height is also a significant strength.

Naseem shah as the X-factor thing. Hasnain has potential but it’s up to him.

Musa won’t make it. He’s a spray gun with speed.

Don’t know the Indian guys as well.

 

[tyron_woodley]

sameen gul

 

[Harpoon]

Shaheen, Naseem and husnain are way ahead of all other in the world let alone sub continent.
From India, I have seen nagrakoti and he was impressive. But he was short in height and probably strained himself too much which caused the injury. Not sure how the injury will impact him once he returns but I doubt he will be the same bowler.

 

[proud_pakistani]

India in the last few years always seems to have some promise with the fast bowlers but they dont last long. Bumrah is the only one who has had some longevity. Pakistan is far ahead at the moment due to Naseem and Hasnain. Other notable ones are Akif Javed, Dilbar Hussain and Haris Rauf. I am not sure in terms of the ages of the last 2.

Lastly, not sure if Shaheen any more is emerging. He is pretty much already emerged.

 

[Ab Fan]

Pakistan will always be ahead of India in terms of emerging fast bowling talents.

The problem is that after reaching 20 tests, they start fading away for whatever be the reasons. This is the reason we have to look back in the previous millennium for a Pakistan fast bowler who has 200 test wickets to his name.

Mohammad Abbas is 30 years old, played 20 tests and we don't know if he will go past the 200 test wickets mark. I am only convinced on Shaheen's future prospects for Pakistan right now.

With Babar and Shaheen, Pakistan's chances of making it to top 5 teams of decade is higher in 2020s.

 

[Asifnow]

Shaheen is in that Pakistan list....I guess they win it.

I remember a few years ago there was so much talk of the top young pacers in India, lots of boasting they were ahead of Pakistan in the "pace factory" but only Bumrah has come through that and even he has yet to pull out a defining world tournament.

With Hasnain (breakout PSL this year), Shah, Rauf (quite a bit older than the rest), Pakistan are in a better position. These guys need to be looked after properly, treated correctly when injured and picked when needed...less politics please!

Let's not forget Hasan Ali, who is still around 24 I think and could make a come back.

 

[Titan24]

prasidh krishna

He was 24 so that is why I didn’t include him but irrespective of that he is a good prospect.

 

[Extra_Cover]

There are like 10 names listed in the list. All both teams need is two top bracket pacers which should be sufficient to carry the attack in future.

Pakistan has two Shah's (Shaheen and Naseem). I don't like jumping on the hype machine and would like to be critical of players but these two have got the 90s x factor about them. Shaheen is an almost perfect fast bowler with textbook accurate action, height, pace and important of all discipline. Naseem is not of this generation he is someone who is so similar to pace bowlers of yesteryear ie. 70s and 80s. His action is so raw that its so refreshing to see in the current world. Obviously he is prone to injuries with such a side on action like his, however if he can make the most out of his current action for next 5 years then he would already have a lasting impact.

For India, I will be honest I haven't seen anyone on that list bowl in detail so would refrain from commentating. From their current lot there is no doubt Bumrah has been their biggest find in a decade when it comes to pacers. Before Bumrah they had Zaheer as someone who would atleast be able to compete with other pacers but Bumrah is several levels above Zaheer. Apart from Bumrah, they have Shami. Although Shami is really good as his stats show he does not have that x factor that Bumrah has which is to win a match on his own. Shami is a very good in a supporting role but is not a leader like Bumrah.

 

[tyron_woodley]

There are like 10 names listed in the list. All both teams need is two top bracket pacers which should be sufficient to carry the attack in future.

Pakistan has two Shah's (Shaheen and Naseem). I don't like jumping on the hype machine and would like to be critical of players but these two have got the 90s x factor about them. Shaheen is an almost perfect fast bowler with textbook accurate action, height, pace and important of all discipline. Naseem is not of this generation he is someone who is so similar to pace bowlers of yesteryear ie. 70s and 80s. His action is so raw that its so refreshing to see in the current world. Obviously he is prone to injuries with such a side on action like his, however if he can make the most out of his current action for next 5 years then he would already have a lasting impact.

For India, I will be honest I haven't seen anyone on that list bowl in detail so would refrain from commentating. From their current lot there is no doubt Bumrah has been their biggest find in a decade when it comes to pacers. Before Bumrah they had Zaheer as someone who would atleast be able to compete with other pacers but Bumrah is several levels above Zaheer. Apart from Bumrah, they have Shami. Although Shami is really good as his stats show he does not have that x factor that Bumrah has which is to win a match on his own. Shami is a very good in a supporting role but is not a leader like Bumrah.

shami has won plenty of matches for india on his own in odi and tests. He is a phenomenal player and the second best Asian bowler in all formats.

he is known for his second innings ability to clean up teams.

 

[tyron_woodley]

pakistan is ahead in terms of emerging talent for now. India has plenty of talent but theydont quite get enough opportunities to showcase their talent as india's main vowling attack have been good in all formats. Pakistan are rebuilding so it's natural to see more new names from.the emerging talents.


in saying that, shaheen is the best under 23 bowler. Rest are all debatable. naseem sure he is good but he still is unproven.

prasidh krishna, saini, avesh khan are good prospects. saini no longer a prospect but still relatively young.
mavi, nagarkoti and tyagi have potential. nagarkoti could be India's best utility player. Kind of like pandya but better.

 

[Pakhs]

shami has won plenty of matches for india on his own in odi and tests. He is a phenomenal player and the second best Asian bowler in all formats.

he is known for his second innings ability to clean up teams.

I dont think Shami has done anything so great that you are talking about! He was one of the players who had a poor WC along with Bumrah.

 

[Ab Fan]

I dont think Shami has done anything so great that you are talking about! He was one of the players who had a poor WC along with Bumrah.

Poor WC lol, Shami averaged 13 in the World Cup with bowl. Haha, great comic masterpiece! Both Bumrah and Shami were two highly successful World Cup performers.

 

[Pakhs]

Poor WC lol, Shami averaged 13 in the World Cup with bowl. Haha, great comic masterpiece! Both Bumrah and Shami were two highly successful World Cup performers.

Bro not everything is numbers - How many wickets did he get in crucial matches or junctions? I remember he got a 5fer and a 4fer in matches that didn't matter. The fact is both were out bowled by NZ less fancied bowlers. I never said they had bad number otherwise I would have quoted bad figures. They both failed to perform when needed.

 

[Pakhs]

Poor WC lol, Shami averaged 13 in the World Cup with bowl. Haha, great comic masterpiece! Both Bumrah and Shami were two highly successful World Cup performers.

Obviously in case of shami he wasnt even selected and rightly so as Bhuvi did better than he would.

 

[Bigboii]

Bro not everything is numbers - How many wickets did he get in crucial matches or junctions? I remember he got a 5fer and a 4fer in matches that didn't matter. The fact is both were out bowled by NZ less fancied bowlers. I never said they had bad number otherwise I would have quoted bad figures. They both failed to perform when needed.

got a hatrick against Afghanistan where India almost lost the match but I think we are going off topic here

 

[Pakhs]

got a hatrick against Afghanistan where India almost lost the match but I think we are going off topic here

He was dropped for crucial semi-final match and that says it all. Bumrah is a very good bilateral bowler who has so far failed to deliver on big stage but otherwise have very good numbers. Shami I just dont think have done much at all so I was just questioning why he is such a favorite of tyron?

 

[Bigboii]

He was dropped for crucial semi-final match and that says it all. Bumrah is a very good bilateral bowler who has so far failed to deliver on big stage but otherwise have very good numbers. Shami I just dont think have done much at all so I was just questioning why he is such a favorite of tyron?

probably his beard

 

[GoUgandaCranes]

The Pakistani young fast bowlers may tick the speed gun but other than Naseem and Shaheen no one really hurries the batsman. Hasnain is cannon fodder on most days and the less said about Musa the better.

I have seen Waqar and Wasim hurry batsmen when the speedgun would say 80 miles an hour, these guys are unable to do that even at 90.

Personally, I like Akif, Arshad, and Sameen but I am not sure of the opportunities that they will get in the future.

 

[Muhammad Saad]

If you are comparing the stock lot of pace bowlers then it's like comparing pak batsmen quality vs Indian batsmen quality, This is not even a comparison if you, however current Indian fast Bowlers that is Bhumrah and Shami are far ahead than main Pak pacers at the moment, but don't even think about comparing the stocks.

 

[tyron_woodley]

Bro not everything is numbers - How many wickets did he get in crucial matches or junctions? I remember he got a 5fer and a 4fer in matches that didn't matter. The fact is both were out bowled by NZ less fancied bowlers. I never said they had bad number otherwise I would have quoted bad figures. They both failed to perform when needed.

depends on the wickets. He is great on bouncy wickets. He isn't a conventional swing bowler. Conditions in England are mor3 conducive to swing. He would have made an impact vs n.z. He wasn't given the opportunity. India should have played all 3 bowlers for the semi final.

 

[Pakhs]

depends on the wickets. He is great on bouncy wickets. He isn't a conventional swing bowler. Conditions in England are mor3 conducive to swing. He would have made an impact vs n.z. He wasn't given the opportunity. India should have played all 3 bowlers for the semi final.

He is a good bowler and even I dont think he deserved to be dropped - However he is not a great bowler I would place him in the same bracket as Umer Gul for Pakistan who won Pakistan quit a few matches and at his best was a good bowler but not a great bowler.

Bumrah its too early as his career is just starting so I am not putting him in any bracket yet but so far he is failing to perform in ICC tournaments and doing better or great in bilateral which is unusual for bowlers as these days good bowlers are reserving themselves for ICC tournaments.

 

[tyron_woodley]

He is a good bowler and even I dont think he deserved to be dropped - However he is not a great bowler I would place him in the same bracket as Umer Gul for Pakistan who won Pakistan quit a few matches and at his best was a good bowler but not a great bowler.

Bumrah its too early as his career is just starting so I am not putting him in any bracket yet but so far he is failing to perform in ICC tournaments and doing better or great in bilateral which is unusual for bowlers as these days good bowlers are reserving themselves for ICC tournaments.

he is far better than him. hell he is better than shoaib in odi. Just cause our team dint win the semis or finals doesn't make him a bad bowler. Every semi final or final loss happened when indian batted second. Post 2013 I mean ofcourse.

The whole team needs to perform as a team. His numbers are far superior compared to a mediocre player like gul. It's an Insult to compare a fodder like gul to shami shami is better than even shoaib in odi.

what has shoaib ever done in odi in important games? he can't do it all by himself can he? he even had a gun team in 99 yet they choked in an important game.

shami is not Just a good bowler. if shoaib considered a great bowler than shami is even better as he plays in a batting friendly era. Do you realize how difficult it is to be an elite fast bowler in the modern era? when all the rules are stacked against you?

b.s. field settings, power play restrictions, 2 new balls.

 

[Ashraful_Rox]

Pakistan Under 19 pacers are ahead so good signs

 

[Invincible Gujjar]

he is far better than him. hell he is better than shoaib in odi. Just cause our team dint win the semis or finals doesn't make him a bad bowler. Every semi final or final loss happened when indian batted second. Post 2013 I mean ofcourse.

The whole team needs to perform as a team. His numbers are far superior compared to a mediocre player like gul. It's an Insult to compare a fodder like gul to shami shami is better than even shoaib in odi.

what has shoaib ever done in odi in important games? he can't do it all by himself can he? he even had a gun team in 99 yet they choked in an important game.

shami is not Just a good bowler. if shoaib considered a great bowler than shami is even better as he plays in a batting friendly era. Do you realize how difficult it is to be an elite fast bowler in the modern era? when all the rules are stacked against you?

b.s. field settings, power play restrictions, 2 new balls.

ROFL shami being better than shoaib who is probably the greatest talent of all time.What has shami done in tests in SENA. he averages like 40 I guess.shami is decent better than ugly action but nowhere near world class but yeah by Indian standards he is good.Indians and their knowledge on fast bowling is baffling.Leave fast bowling alone this is just not your cup of tea.

 

[tyron_woodley]

ROFL shami being better than shoaib who is probably the greatest talent of all time.What has shami done in tests in SENA. he averages like 40 I guess.shami is decent better than ugly action but nowhere near world class but yeah by Indian standards he is good.Indians and their knowledge on fast bowling is baffling.Leave fast bowling alone this is just not your cup of tea.

shami averages better than shoaib in odi in a much tougher era.

shami is a world class bowler. Only a fool would disagree.

when has shoaib helped you win a game in australia?? in tests. shami did. What about shaoib in south africa rofl?

bowling and excelling just in swing conditions doesn't make him a better bowler. shami is far superior to shaoib in Asia as well.

 

[Bigboii]

Shoaib>>>>>>>>shami every second of the day he is severely underrated

 

[Ab Fan]

Obviously in case of shami he wasnt even selected and rightly so as Bhuvi did better than he would.

Shami was dropped because Indian team management felt the conditions in that game would favour Bhuvi a bit more. Bhuvi obviously is a better bowler than Shami with the new bowl. Shami is best with the old bowl.

Also, at that time, Shami was contributing zilch with bat while Bhuvi could still push a few runs. So, they went with Bhuvi.

 

[shamaan]

Shaheen shouldn't even be in this group of list hes way head of all of them from both sides in this emerging category pluss hes played good number of internationals.

Pakistan has better emerging talent heads down

 

[shamaan]

The Pakistani young fast bowlers may tick the speed gun but other than Naseem and Shaheen no one really hurries the batsman. Hasnain is cannon fodder on most days and the less said about Musa the better.

I have seen Waqar and Wasim hurry batsmen when the speedgun would say 80 miles an hour, these guys are unable to do that even at 90.

Personally, I like Akif, Arshad, and Sameen but I am not sure of the opportunities that they will get in the future.

Akif is decent prospect

 

[Pakhs]

he is far better than him. hell he is better than shoaib in odi. Just cause our team dint win the semis or finals doesn't make him a bad bowler. Every semi final or final loss happened when indian batted second. Post 2013 I mean ofcourse.

The whole team needs to perform as a team. His numbers are far superior compared to a mediocre player like gul. It's an Insult to compare a fodder like gul to shami shami is better than even shoaib in odi.

what has shoaib ever done in odi in important games? he can't do it all by himself can he? he even had a gun team in 99 yet they choked in an important game.

shami is not Just a good bowler. if shoaib considered a great bowler than shami is even better as he plays in a batting friendly era. Do you realize how difficult it is to be an elite fast bowler in the modern era? when all the rules are stacked against you?

b.s. field settings, power play restrictions, 2 new balls.

LOL you must be a young kid - Shoiab was the fastest every bowler - And riped apart NZ in the 99 semi-final and you are comparing him for someone who was dropped lol.

Gul was bowling at 94 miles an hour at his peak and won pakistan big matches even against India. Shami has done nothing great in his career at all. He is not even as good as Bhuvi.

 

[Pakhs]

Shami was dropped because Indian team management felt the conditions in that game would favour Bhuvi a bit more. Bhuvi obviously is a better bowler than Shami with the new bowl. Shami is best with the old bowl.

Also, at that time, Shami was contributing zilch with bat while Bhuvi could still push a few runs. So, they went with Bhuvi.

Yes he was dropped because he always leaks runs with the new bowl how someone thinks he is a great bowler is beyond me.

 

[Ab Fan]

Yes he was dropped because he always leaks runs with the new bowl how someone thinks he is a great bowler is beyond me.

Do you know how bad Waqar was in leaking runs? He would have got smashed as much as Shami does if he played in this era. Atleast Shami has a great WC record unlike Waqar who had to be dropped from squad for Pakistan to win the World Cup tournament.

The only reason Shami was dropped was because Bhuvi with new bowl in overcast conditions is a treat to watch and hence why India went with him over Shami. Otherwise, Burman and Shami in ODIs are sureshot great players of the game. You have to watch games and not nitpick at stats to understand that.

 

[Canistani Hero]

Kartik Tyagi aside, the Pakistani bowlers are much better

 

[Pakhs]

Do you know how bad Waqar was in leaking runs? He would have got smashed as much as Shami does if he played in this era. Atleast Shami has a great WC record unlike Waqar who had to be dropped from squad for Pakistan to win the World Cup tournament.

The only reason Shami was dropped was because Bhuvi with new bowl in overcast conditions is a treat to watch and hence why India went with him over Shami. Otherwise, Burman and Shami in ODIs are sureshot great players of the game. You have to watch games and not nitpick at stats to understand that.

How can you compare Waqar to Shami? What has shami done? I really just dont understand whats good at taking 5 wickets against Afghanistan? Bhuvi himself is a nothing bowler just a good support act and he was dropped for him shows his level in itself.

Shami at best is just another bowler who most teams have on regular basis in international cricket if he is great than 80% of international bowlers would be great bowlers infact bhuvi is greater lol

He is not a bad bowler by any means just not great! He is never missed in Indian side which just proves my point.

 

[Ab Fan]

How can you compare Waqar to Shami? What has shami done? I really just dont understand whats good at taking 5 wickets against Afghanistan? Bhuvi himself is a nothing bowler just a good support act and he was dropped for him shows his level in itself.

Shami at best is just another bowler who most teams have on regular basis in international cricket if he is great than 80% of international bowlers would be great bowlers infact bhuvi is greater lol

He is not a bad bowler by any means just not great! He is never missed in Indian side which just proves my point.

Bumrah, Shami and Ishant v2.0 is better than any Pakistan bowler from last 20 years.

 

[Pakhs]

Bumrah, Shami and Ishant v2.0 is better than any Pakistan bowler from last 20 years.

This is a Joke - Bumrah has not even got 100 test wickets yet - (What does Ishant 2.0 even mean?) - I can make Gull 2.0 and prove to you during this period he had better figures than Ishant? Shami I dont even understand what he has done so great? Not a regular in one day cricket? only been a regular in test cricket for last 2/3 years have failed to perform adequately in most bowling friendly condition of England, SA and NZ.

While Pakistan have had bowlers like Mo Asif in the last 20 years. Only Bumrah has been performing like someone who can be great when he finishes his career but its way too early needs atleast 500 wickets across formats.

 

[Kingpin786]

This is a Joke - Bumrah has not even got 100 test wickets yet - (What does Ishant 2.0 even mean?) - I can make Gull 2.0 and prove to you during this period he had better figures than Ishant? Shami I dont even understand what he has done so great? Not a regular in one day cricket? only been a regular in test cricket for last 2/3 years have failed to perform adequately in most bowling friendly condition of England, SA and NZ.

While Pakistan have had bowlers like Mo Asif in the last 20 years. Only Bumrah has been performing like someone who can be great when he finishes his career but its way too early needs atleast 500 wickets across formats.

Great post

 

[Ab Fan]

This is a Joke - Bumrah has not even got 100 test wickets yet - (What does Ishant 2.0 even mean?) - I can make Gull 2.0 and prove to you during this period he had better figures than Ishant? Shami I dont even understand what he has done so great? Not a regular in one day cricket? only been a regular in test cricket for last 2/3 years have failed to perform adequately in most bowling friendly condition of England, SA and NZ.

While Pakistan have had bowlers like Mo Asif in the last 20 years. Only Bumrah has been performing like someone who can be great when he finishes his career but its way too early needs atleast 500 wickets across formats.

Shami won India a World Cup match vs Pakistan in 2015 with figures of 4-35 in contrast to Waqar who got absolutely embarrassed and humiliated by a fixer Ajay Jadeja.

As far as Mohammad Asif is concerned, his legacy is of a match fixer and nothing else. It would only be better if you keep him sidelined as he has himself to blame for destroying his career.

Ishant v 2.0 has about 150 wickets at 25 since 2014 with his away average being about 22. Poor Gul has just slightly over 150 test wickets in his entire career, lol on talking about Gul v2.0.

Bumrah has an ODI economy of 4.5 in this decade where scores of 300 are made for fun. While Pakistan's Waqar who played all his career in 90s had a poor economy of 4.69 in an era where 240 was considered an excellent score.

There is absolutely no doubt that Bumrah, Shami and Ishant v2.0 all are superior bowlers to anyone Pakistan has produced in these 20 years with the only argument worth pointing out is that they had a match fixer who was expected to be the next big thing but before he could do anything credible for Pakistan in his career, he sold his country for money.

 

[Glen Durrant fan]

I think Musa is going to be really good, just will take a while. Shaheen will be a superstar in the future and I agree that Naseem has x-factor and Hasnain has potential but is extremely raw.

 

[Kingpin786]

Shami won India a World Cup match vs Pakistan in 2015 with figures of 4-35 in contrast to Waqar who got absolutely embarrassed and humiliated by a fixer Ajay Jadeja.

As far as Mohammad Asif is concerned, his legacy is of a match fixer and nothing else. It would only be better if you keep him sidelined as he has himself to blame for destroying his career.

Ishant v 2.0 has about 150 wickets at 25 since 2014 with his away average being about 22. Poor Gul has just slightly over 150 test wickets in his entire career, lol on talking about Gul v2.0.

Bumrah has an ODI economy of 4.5 in this decade where scores of 300 are made for fun. While Pakistan's Waqar who played all his career in 90s had a poor economy of 4.69 in an era where 240 was considered an excellent score.

There is absolutely no doubt that Bumrah, Shami and Ishant v2.0 all are superior bowlers to anyone Pakistan has produced in these 20 years with the only argument worth pointing out is that they had a match fixer who was expected to be the next big thing but before he could do anything credible for Pakistan in his career, he sold his country for money.

Amir got 3for16 in ct final and was way better thanshami's spell and talk about sharma no other country can produce 2.0 version of bowler like sharma because they have other bowlers to give them chances unlike india

 

[Ab Fan]

Amir got 3for16 in ct final and was way better thanshami's spell and talk about sharma no other country can produce 2.0 version of bowler like sharma because they have other bowlers to give them chances unlike india

Amir's test career is over. Do correct me if I am wrong. As I said, you are not doing any good to yourself by bringing names of Amir and Asif. Their legacy is not what they were expected to be in 2010 or what Pak team hoped them to become but with what they ended or retired with.

As a test bowler, Bumrah, Shami and Ishant all three are superior bowlers to Amir.

Amir is still a very good ODI bowler but couple of levels below Bumrah and a level below Shami but at the same time a much inferior test bowler to all three- Bumrah, Shami and Ishant.

The onus is now on Pakistan to produce their first fast bowler in this millennium who can take atleast 200 test wickets before they end up finding a way of shutting their doors. Then we will be in a position to take the debate forward.

 

[DRsohail]

Shami won India a World Cup match vs Pakistan in 2015 with figures of 4-35 in contrast to Waqar who got absolutely embarrassed and humiliated by a fixer Ajay Jadeja.

As far as Mohammad Asif is concerned, his legacy is of a match fixer and nothing else. It would only be better if you keep him sidelined as he has himself to blame for destroying his career.

Ishant v 2.0 has about 150 wickets at 25 since 2014 with his away average being about 22. Poor Gul has just slightly over 150 test wickets in his entire career, lol on talking about Gul v2.0.

Bumrah has an ODI economy of 4.5 in this decade where scores of 300 are made for fun. While Pakistan's Waqar who played all his career in 90s had a poor economy of 4.69 in an era where 240 was considered an excellent score.

There is absolutely no doubt that Bumrah, Shami and Ishant v2.0 all are superior bowlers to anyone Pakistan has produced in these 20 years with the only argument worth pointing out is that they had a match fixer who was expected to be the next big thing but before he could do anything credible for Pakistan in his career, he sold his country for money.

Ih My God so all of the three bowlers are better than waqar.Do not mention his name here . He is a legwnd. The rest i agreee.

 

[DRsohail]

Some comments here from indian are like .... I can just laugh at.

 

[Buffet]

Neither Shami or Akhtar belong in discussion as ATG ODI bowler. Bumrah has a long way to go despite starting with a bang. ATG means you have to on top for a long time.

 

[tyron_woodley]

LOL you must be a young kid - Shoiab was the fastest every bowler - And riped apart NZ in the 99 semi-final and you are comparing him for someone who was dropped lol.

Gul was bowling at 94 miles an hour at his peak and won pakistan big matches even against India. Shami has done nothing great in his career at all. He is not even as good as Bhuvi.

waqar is a fodder. He got outbowled by venkatst Prasad. Venkatst f'ing Prasad rofl. Don't compare him to shami. It's a disgrace. You people make me sick lmao.

waqar literally single gandeslt lost pakistan the game vs india in 96 when everyone was in their absolute peak.

Perennial bilateral bully. That's all he is. waqar.

shami's feces alone is worth more than gul. Gul is a mediocre bowler. He is not better than bhuvi kumar. Records are similar. bhuvi is actually a far greater test bowler than anyone pakistam have produced since 2000.

 

[Kingpin786]

Amir's test career is over. Do correct me if I am wrong. As I said, you are not doing any good to yourself by bringing names of Amir and Asif. Their legacy is not what they were expected to be in 2010 or what Pak team hoped them to become but with what they ended or retired with.

As a test bowler, Bumrah, Shami and Ishant all three are superior bowlers to Amir.

Amir is still a very good ODI bowler but couple of levels below Bumrah and a level below Shami but at the same time a much inferior test bowler to all three- Bumrah, Shami and Ishant.

The onus is now on Pakistan to produce their first fast bowler in this millennium who can take atleast 200 test wickets before they end up finding a way of shutting their doors. Then we will be in a position to take the debate forward.

Well ishant and shami are average bowlers who played these test maches because india did not have other option shami averaged 30 + before wi test series and he has performed against 2nd and3rd tier teams

 

[Kingpin786]

waqar is a fodder. He got outbowled by venkatst Prasad. Venkatst f'ing Prasad rofl. Don't compare him to shami. It's a disgrace. You people make me sick lmao.

waqar literally single gandeslt lost pakistan the game vs india in 96 when everyone was in their absolute peak.

Perennial bilateral bully. That's all he is. waqar.

shami's feces alone is worth more than gul. Gul is a mediocre bowler. He is not better than bhuvi kumar. Records are similar. bhuvi is actually a far greater test bowler than anyone pakistam have produced since 2000.

Well bumrah was outbowled by amir at several occasions

 

[tyron_woodley]

Well bumrah was outbowled by amir at several occasions

amir is a nobody in tests. bumrah still has better numbers overall.

in odi bumrah bowled as well as am I in the WC.

 

[Ab Fan]

Ih My God so all of the three bowlers are better than waqar.Do not mention his name here . He is a legwnd. The rest i agreee.

Waqar is a test legend. In ODIs, he is a lot overrated. His ER is very high for his own era.

However, all the three bowlers are certainly better than anyone Pakistan produced in last 20 years.

 

[Ab Fan]

Well ishant and shami are average bowlers who played these test maches because india did not have other option shami averaged 30 + before wi test series and he has performed against 2nd and3rd tier teams

Poor interpretation of cricket.It seems you have only started watching Indian cricket matches from the NZ series.

Shami averages 27 in tests with more test wickets than any Pakistan fast bowlers in last 20 years. He has unfortunately played only 16 tests at home and 33 away. Most teams fast bowlers play about 40-45% of test matches at home and hence their averages are so high. Example- Anderson, Broad, Boult, Starc, Rabada.

Shami would have actually averaged under 25 if he played as much at home. Still not an ATG but definitely a great bowler by all means.

Ishant was mediocre during first half and was in and out of team but since 2014, he has been brilliant in tests with about 148 test wickets@26 and during this period, his away record has got even better. Considering his peak, he deserves to be respected for his performance and is on his way to become Indian great.

 

[Kingpin786]

amir is a nobody in tests. bumrah still has better numbers overall.

in odi bumrah bowled as well as am I in the WC.

lol keep it up

 

[Kingpin786]

Poor interpretation of cricket.It seems you have only started watching Indian cricket matches from the NZ series.

Shami averages 27 in tests with more test wickets than any Pakistan fast bowlers in last 20 years. He has unfortunately played only 16 tests at home and 33 away. Most teams fast bowlers play about 40-45% of test matches at home and hence their averages are so high. Example- Anderson, Broad, Boult, Starc, Rabada.

Shami would have actually averaged under 25 if he played as much at home. Still not an ATG but definitely a great bowler by all means.

Ishant was mediocre during first half and was in and out of team but since 2014, he has been brilliant in tests with about 148 test wickets@26 and during this period, his away record has got even better. Considering his peak, he deserves to be respected for his performance and is on his way to become Indian great.

you dont understand go and check shami's average against australia when smith and warner played when shami first toured australia actually youn are not intelligent enough to get that point shami struggles against a decent baating lineup check his stats vs england in 2018,his first tour of australia and nz test series besides yes pakistan has not produced a single fast bowler but india has just produced one bowler who could rank in top3 in test rankings while pakistan has produced two shoaib and asif in this millennium

 

[tyron_woodley]

lol keep it up

amir averages 21 in the WC. bumrah averaged literally the same.

 

[tyron_woodley]

you dont understand go and check shami's average against australia when smith and warner played when shami first toured australia actually youn are not intelligent enough to get that point shami struggles against a decent baating lineup check his stats vs england in 2018,his first tour of australia and nz test series besides yes pakistan has not produced a single fast bowler but india has just produced one bowler who could rank in top3 in test rankings while pakistan has produced two shoaib and asif in this millennium

go look at waqar's average vs australia and india.

 

[Invincible Gujjar]

LOL! Indians and their fast bowling knowledge.I would say for thousandth time.what do Indians know about fast bowling.They have always produced trundlers with high averages.

 

[Pakhs]

Shami won India a World Cup match vs Pakistan in 2015 with figures of 4-35 in contrast to Waqar who got absolutely embarrassed and humiliated by a fixer Ajay Jadeja.

As far as Mohammad Asif is concerned, his legacy is of a match fixer and nothing else. It would only be better if you keep him sidelined as he has himself to blame for destroying his career.

Ishant v 2.0 has about 150 wickets at 25 since 2014 with his away average being about 22. Poor Gul has just slightly over 150 test wickets in his entire career, lol on talking about Gul v2.0.

Bumrah has an ODI economy of 4.5 in this decade where scores of 300 are made for fun. While Pakistan's Waqar who played all his career in 90s had a poor economy of 4.69 in an era where 240 was considered an excellent score.

There is absolutely no doubt that Bumrah, Shami and Ishant v2.0 all are superior bowlers to anyone Pakistan has produced in these 20 years with the only argument worth pointing out is that they had a match fixer who was expected to be the next big thing but before he could do anything credible for Pakistan in his career, he sold his country for money.

Lol at Ishant v 2.0 that beats all arguments that you are making by yourself for your information there is nothing called Ishant v 2.0 next thing you will come up with ishant v 3.0 when he starts performing poorly again. Ishant is only a test specialist only anyway so just one trick pony.

Shami has done nothing great in his career so far he has only been a regular in test cricket for last two years any way and you are comparing him with Waqar who has the best strike rate ever of all bowlers barring steyn again another joke.

Bumrah is doing good so far but just had a poor NZ tour and there is this feel that teams are finding him out but the judgment must wait.

 

[Pakhs]

waqar is a fodder. He got outbowled by venkatst Prasad. Venkatst f'ing Prasad rofl. Don't compare him to shami. It's a disgrace. You people make me sick lmao.

waqar literally single gandeslt lost pakistan the game vs india in 96 when everyone was in their absolute peak.

Perennial bilateral bully. That's all he is. waqar.

shami's feces alone is worth more than gul. Gul is a mediocre bowler. He is not better than bhuvi kumar. Records are similar. bhuvi is actually a far greater test bowler than anyone pakistam have produced since 2000.

Haha Waqar is a fodder that guy has the best strike rater ever in history barring maybe steyn and he is a fodder I need to stop replying to kids in this forum.

 

[Ab Fan]

Lol at Ishant v 2.0 that beats all arguments that you are making by yourself for your information there is nothing called Ishant v 2.0 next thing you will come up with ishant v 3.0 when he starts performing poorly again. Ishant is only a test specialist only anyway so just one trick pony.

Shami has done nothing great in his career so far he has only been a regular in test cricket for last two years any way and you are comparing him with Waqar who has the best strike rate ever of all bowlers barring steyn again another joke.

Bumrah is doing good so far but just had a poor NZ tour and there is this feel that teams are finding him out but the judgment must wait.

I never compared them with Waqar - the test bowler. Anyways, in the last 20 years, Pakistan didn't had Wasim and Waqar. And what's this one trick pony, Anderson and Broad play tests only and Wagner does so, so did Pakistan's greatest cricketer in last 20 years.

 

[Pakhs]

I never compared them with Waqar - the test bowler. Anyways, in the last 20 years, Pakistan didn't had Wasim and Waqar. And what's this one trick pony, Anderson and Broad play tests only and Wagner does so, so did Pakistan's greatest cricketer in last 20 years.

Yes but Anderson and Broad has 1000 wickets between them and who said Wagner is a great bowler? But he is better than ishant as his ranking etc suggest.

 

[Pakhs]

I never compared them with Waqar - the test bowler. Anyways, in the last 20 years, Pakistan didn't had Wasim and Waqar. And what's this one trick pony, Anderson and Broad play tests only and Wagner does so, so did Pakistan's greatest cricketer in last 20 years.

Yes Pakistan did not have wasim or waqar in the last 20 years but they still had plenty of similar level bowlers or better who came and went. They all did a similar job they were all nothing great apart from Asif and Shoaib. The kind of bowlers you are calling great are actually pretty run of the mil bowlers in international cricket and most teams will have similar level bowlers most of the time.

The reason Indian team is good is because they have been able to keep the their batting quality very high which means they are able to to win more with this bowling line-up which is good collectively specially at home if you add the spinners.

 

[Kingpin786]

go look at waqar's average vs australia and india.

when waqar started his career windies were best team not australia

 

[Ab Fan]

Yes but Anderson and Broad has 1000 wickets between them and who said Wagner is a great bowler? But he is better than ishant as his ranking etc suggest.

Ishant is not a great bowler but deserves to be respected for his excellent performance in second half of his career. He is better and has achieved far more than any Pakistan fast bowler that has debuted in this millennium.

Amir and Asif are match fixers and they don't have any legacy in international cricket as their services for their country were only limited to 100-110 test wickets. That's not what we call doing their work for their country and then retiring off, lmao. What they are remembered for is the shameless act they did in Lords. I am again telling, they won't be remembered for what they were expected to be in 2010 but what they ended with.

Anyways, Amir shouldn't even be mentioned. He ended up with 110 wickets at avg over 30. Ishant has 300 wickets at avg of 32 and his last 150 wickets has come at avg of 25 and is still going strong. Ishant is clearly a superior test bowler to Amir and there is no point debating that.

As for Shami, I explained you about his numbers and lack of home games. He has done better than Boult, Broad and Starc in test cricket who are also great bowlers of this generation. Wagner is a test specialist great and ahead of Ishant because he averages a brilliant 26 with the bowl and has over 200 test wickets.

I have proved all which I had to.

 

[Kingpin786]

amir averages 21 in the WC. bumrah averaged literally the same.

waqar was second highest wicket taker in wc1996 so how he got outbowled by parsaad besides bumrah was outbowled by amir in the most important match bumrah has played in his career i hope you will get my point

 

[tyron_woodley]

waqar was second highest wicket taker in wc1996 so how he got outbowled by parsaad besides bumrah was outbowled by amir in the most important match bumrah has played in his career i hope you will get my point

waqar single handedly cost pakistan the game vs india. bumrah actually bowled really well in the WC

 

[tyron_woodley]

Haha Waqar is a fodder that guy has the best strike rater ever in history barring maybe steyn and he is a fodder I need to stop replying to kids in this forum.

waqar averages 40 plus vs india and australia. That too a weak 90s india. He struggled to make an impact vs the best teams.

 

[ManFan]

waqar averages 40 plus vs india and australia. That too a weak 90s india. He struggled to make an impact vs the best teams.

You conveniently forget to mention how his three tours to Australia were when he was a rookie, returning from a back injury, and out of his prime. But still, his poor performance in Australia is due to his own inability to get top-order wickets regularly.

But his two tours to India? They were in his rookie year and TEN years later when he was old, slow, and had undergone two back injuries.

In fact, I would say that India’s terrible batting lineup was lucky that they didn’t face Waqar during 91-95. You know what makes me say that?

The fact that a 33-year old diabetic Wasim and “officially” 28 year-old Waqar (who is actually 3-5 years older than his age) were enough to beat India in 99’, 2 out of 3 times. A lineup that had Sachin, Ganguly, Laxman, Dravid, and Azharuddin in the top 6.

 

[ManFan]

waqar single handedly cost pakistan the game vs india. bumrah actually bowled really well in the WC

Bumrah also single-handingly cost India the CT Final.

Should we ignore the fact that he has been probably the best LOI bowler in the world the past 2-3 years?

Or hold it against him down the road when he has 789 wickets in the two true formats with a sub-24 average bowling on flat-decks with poor fielders and locker-room stability/infighting?

 

[Kingpin786]

waqar single handedly cost pakistan the game vs india. bumrah actually bowled really well in the WC

as [MENTION=143937]ManFan[/MENTION] has mentioned bumrah cost india ct final also played crucial role in getting defeated by windies in t20 wc 2016 semifinal besides in wct20 semi final he was outbowled by all nz bowlers

 

[tyron_woodley]

You conveniently forget to mention how his three tours to Australia were when he was a rookie, returning from a back injury, and out of his prime. But still, his poor performance in Australia is due to his own inability to get top-order wickets regularly.

But his two tours to India? They were in his rookie year and TEN years later when he was old, slow, and had undergone two back injuries.

In fact, I would say that India’s terrible batting lineup was lucky that they didn’t face Waqar during 91-95. You know what makes me say that?

The fact that a 33-year old diabetic Wasim and “officially” 28 year-old Waqar (who is actually 3-5 years older than his age) were enough to beat India in 99’, 2 out of 3 times. A lineup that had Sachin, Ganguly, Laxman, Dravid, and Azharuddin in the top 6.

yea you can't juxtapose the combination of a pre prime fab 4 from the indian batting unit into the 90s era and claim that wasim would have got the better of them. Wasim nor waqar never faced the prime versions of India's fab 4.

waqar has always been a dud in australia. He is useless in those conditons. I can't rate a guy who doesnt perform against the best team. He had a 4 year prime where he dominated weak batsmen. Not to mention he failed against india. Don't think he would ever had success vs india in Asian conditions. I rate shoaib above him because he has the x factor ability to run through sides.

 

[Kingpin786]

[MENTION=150610]tyron_woodley[/MENTION] what do you think are reasons behind bumrah's failure in kos?

 

[tyron_woodley]

as [MENTION=143937]ManFan[/MENTION] has mentioned bumrah cost india ct final also played crucial role in getting defeated by windies in t20 wc 2016 semifinal besides in wct20 semi final he was outbowled by all nz bowlers

do I care about t20? who cares about t20?

champions trophy. Yea well it still isn't the world cup. He played well in the world cup. period. India lost s 2 day game in the semis. That's a face. It wasn't really fair conditons when one team doesn't have to bat in a rain drenched pitch. Either way india also missed dhawan who has a phenomenal record in englsnd and world cup in general. Shami dint even play the semis.

 

[Kingpin786]

do I care about t20? who cares about t20?

champions trophy. Yea well it still isn't the world cup. He played well in the world cup. period. India lost s 2 day game in the semis. That's a face. It wasn't really fair conditons when one team doesn't have to bat in a rain drenched pitch. Either way india also missed dhawan who has a phenomenal record in englsnd and world cup in general. Shami dint even play the semis.

well cricket is not being run according to your wishes besides shami did not played because tm did not have confidence on him

 

[tyron_woodley]

well cricket is not being run according to your wishes besides shami did not played because tm did not have confidence on him

everyone in india clamored for shami over chahal. We don't need chahal for that game. shami bhuvi and bumrah should have played.
Point is it wasn't India's best team vs n.z and it wasn't even a odi game lmao.

 

[Mesozoic]

Thread is about emerging bowlers and people here discussing Waqar, Asif , Shami and Ishant...

Anyways..if you compare both the current test bowling attacks, I think India are comfortably infront in terms of both experience and skillset. Odis , it could go either ways. T20s doesn't matter.

But once you bring in the word "emerging" , I think it becomes quite subjective. If we are talking about bowlers who're either on the fringes of the national team or are very new to int'l cricket, I think Pakistan are comfortably ahead. But if you talk about potential future int'l bowlers toiling in the domestics, then it could again go either way.

So, for now I think Pakistan is slightly ahead in emerging fast bowling resources.