Pakistani Army moves into the oil business (Asia Times)

[Mamoon]

The business conglomerate that is the Pakistani Army, which has fingers in multiple pies across the business spectrum, has now moved into the oil business.

Recent growth of businesses controlled by the powerful army has been spectacular.

In 2016, for instance, the Pakistan Senate was informed that the army’s commercial wings, namely the Fauji (Army) Foundation, the Shaheen Foundation, the Bahria Foundation, the Army Welfare Trust and the Defense Housing Authorities, owned around 50 business concerns and housing property worth over $20 billion.

Three years later, this number now runs into the hundreds of businesses with net investment reportedly exceeding $100 billion.

Dr. Ayesha Siddiqa, a Pakistani military scientist and author of the acclaimed book “Military Inc.” told the Asia Times:

“The army’s total stake in private businesses in the country is more than $100 billion.

They are underestimating their investment and disguising their involvement through public sector organizations like (the) National Logistic Cell, Special Communications Organization and Frontier Works Organization, which are exempt from annual audit and scrutiny.”

She said one of the leading military-business conglomerates in Pakistan was the Fauji (Army) Foundation. In 2005, she recalled, the elected parliament was snubbed by the Ministry of Defense after it questioned a controversial business transaction that undersold sugar mills.

Siddiqa revealed that “Milbus-related” resources do not follow the norms of accountability prescribed for government institutions: “The term ‘Milbus’ refers to military capital that is used for the personal benefit of the military fraternity, especially the officer cadre, but is neither recorded nor part of the defense budget. In this respect, it is a completely independent genre of capital.”

Dr. Siddiqa, who also serves as a research associate at the SOAS South Asia Institute, University of London, said that military involvement in socio-economic activities undermines professional competence by focusing on non-military commercial activities instead of devoting themselves to core military duties and responsibilities.

The newest expansion of army business is a move into the oil sector. It is in addition to dozens of businesses the military already runs in Pakistan including companies in the spheres of banking, food, retail superstores, cement, real estate, housing, construction, private security services, and insurance.

Pakistan People’s Party (PPP) Secretary General and former Senator Farhatullah Babar told Asia Times, “The parliamentary proceedings show that all is not well with the manner in which business contracts are awarded to military-run enterprises.”

He claimed that lucrative toll collections at motorways was acquired by the Frontier Works Organization on a long-term basis without inviting bids.

Babar said that massive involvement of the army in non-military business activities has attracted the attention of Parliament as well as of the Supreme Court.

“The military’s institutional strengths and advantages are well known. Backed by these strengths the military commercial wings always use unfair means to compete with other competitors and acquire commercial enterprises and get contracts in a non-transparent manner.

Potentially it will have negative consequences for business as a whole because private businesses (are not competing on) a level playing field.” Babar added.

https://www.asiatimes.com/2019/03/article/pakistani-army-moves-into-the-oil-business/

A wonderful article highlighting the looting and the plundering of the military. People talk about the corruption of politicians, but the military elite have billions of dollars worth of investment and there is no accountability whatsoever.

They have a free hand to steal, loot, bully and blackmail anyone they want and no one can question them. They are truly the kings of this country.

 

[PetroDollars]

i am waiting for the day you claim pak army was behind the ice age, the ottoman empires downfall and the reasons british took over the mughals,

 

[Asim_khan]

You can't go off what the PPP or Sidiqua say.

 

[Lonewarrior]

a deflection thread becoz of ICJ verdict.

 

[PetroDollars]

You can't go off what the PPP or Sidiqua say.

This guy will belive Modi when he talks about pak army

 

[Pakpak]

a deflection thread becoz of ICJ verdict.

I'd be worried if I was him. Adnan Sami etc live outside Pakistan hence their daily trash. This guy posts borderline treasonous stuff everyday.

 

[cricketjoshila]

https://www.asiatimes.com/2019/03/article/pakistani-army-moves-into-the-oil-business/

A wonderful article highlighting the looting and the plundering of the military. People talk about the corruption of politicians, but the military elite have billions of dollars worth of investment and there is no accountability whatsoever.

They have a free hand to steal, loot, bully and blackmail anyone they want and no one can question them. They are truly the kings of this country.

I was recently told that pak army maintains and runs these businesses as the profit is used for the welfare of its members.

Does Pak govt not provide pension,medical, and other benefits for the retired personnels and family of deceased one?

 

[Syed1]

I was recently told that pak army maintains and runs these businesses as the profit is used for the welfare of its members.

Does Pak govt not provide pension,medical, and other benefits for the retired personnels and family of deceased one?

None of your concern.

 

[Mamoon]

I was recently told that pak army maintains and runs these businesses as the profit is used for the welfare of its members.

Does Pak govt not provide pension,medical, and other benefits for the retired personnels and family of deceased one?

The government bears the burden of paying pension for military officers. Until 1995, the pension for military officers was paid from the military budget before it was changed.

The army maintains these businesses out of greed for power. When you have the most money in the country and the guns, who can stand up to you? That is why they own the country and do what they want.

 

[Lonewarrior]

I'd be worried if I was him. Adnan Sami etc live outside Pakistan hence their daily trash. This guy posts borderline treasonous stuff everyday.

he should read the cyber law. i told him many times before.

 

[cricketjoshila]

The government bears the burden of paying pension for military officers. Until 1995, the pension for military officers was paid from the military budget before it was changed.

The army maintains these businesses out of greed for power. When you have the most money in the country and the guns, who can stand up to you? That is why they own the country and do what they want.

So the money and property owned by Army is used for what purpose?

I can understand properties being owned by Army. That happens in many countries.

By why businesses?

 

[Mamoon]

So the money and property owned by Army is used for what purpose?

I can understand properties being owned by Army. That happens in many countries.

By why businesses?

Corruption. They own businesses worth billions and there is no one to hold them accountable. The judiciary and NAB are either in their pocket or are threatened and blackmailed to the point where they cannot do anything.

 

[tahir_dj]

So the money and property owned by Army is used for what purpose?

I can understand properties being owned by Army. That happens in many countries.

By why businesses?

Why do you care? Worry about your own country first


Also mamoon is known fraduia who find anything and everything in Pakistan as negative.
I dont know how these type of lunatics sleep at night

 

[Lonewarrior]

So the money and property owned by Army is used for what purpose?

I can understand properties being owned by Army. That happens in many countries.

By why businesses?

buying fantastic tea from srilanka... )

 

[WebGuru]

Corruption. They own businesses worth billions and there is no one to hold them accountable. The judiciary and NAB are either in their pocket or are threatened and blackmailed to the point where they cannot do anything.

It's the Army and Pakistan that owns the businesses not the Generals and those businesses help create lakhs of jobs for civil and ex army men. It also helps them run Schools/Colleges/Universities/Hospitals where they are able to give high quality free treatment to their soldiers and education to the kids of those soldiers without asking Govt for more funds or without creating any further burden over goverment. In the end Pakistan owns those businesses not Generals.

 

[Thomaskutty]

Interestingly, every post in this thread makes personal attacks on the OP instead of disputing the substance or content of what he's posted.
What does that tell you about the truth?

 

[tahir_dj]

buying fantastic tea from srilanka... )

Bahi tea also cost money.

Next time seedha seedha dishkaoun

 

[tahir_dj]

Interestingly, every post in this thread makes personal attacks on the OP instead of disputing the substance or content of what he's posted.
What does that tell you about the truth?

Yea very intresting indeed because that very OP is a known fraduia who will find every negative thing about #Pakistan and post rubbish.

 

[Mian]

Interestingly, every post in this thread makes personal attacks on the OP instead of disputing the substance or content of what he's posted.
What does that tell you about the truth?

And as usual indians come to Mamoon's rescue "What does that tell you about the truth?"

 

[cricketjoshila]

It's the Army and Pakistan that owns the businesses not the Generals and those businesses help create lakhs of jobs for civil and ex army men. It also helps them run Schools/Colleges/Universities/Hospitals where they are able to give high quality free treatment to their soldiers and education to the kids of those soldiers without asking Govt for more funds or without creating any further burden over goverment. In the end Pakistan owns those businesses not Generals.

Why cant the govt fund and run these schools colleges Universities and Hospitals?

 

[cricketjoshila]

Yea very intresting indeed because that very OP is a known fraduia who will find every negative thing about #Pakistan and post rubbish.

The OP is from Asia Times.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Corruption. They own businesses worth billions and there is no one to hold them accountable. The judiciary and NAB are either in their pocket or are threatened and blackmailed to the point where they cannot do anything.

Do these entities pay tax like other corporates?

 

[WebGuru]

Why cant the govt fund and run these schools colleges Universities and Hospitals?

Thank GOD they are not run by Govt otherwise they would have ended up the same way like any other sector under PMLN and PPP Govts instead of being the one of best School/Colleges/Unis system and Hospitals right now they would have been just another poor govt school or hospital thanks to corruption and incompetence of these 2 parties.

 

[Knight_Rider]

The biggest problem in our country is that Army has become a Holy Cow, who no one can touch or question. Mamoon is correct in what he’s saying and it doesn’t serve any purpose to deny the ground realities.

 

[Hermoine Green]

Do these entities pay tax like other corporates?

Yes, they do.

 

[tahir_dj]

The OP is from Asia Times.

The article is
Not the poster

 

[Mamoon]

Do these entities pay tax like other corporates?

According to them and FBR they do. However, this is our army we are talking about. They could refuse to pay a penny and FBR will still salute them.

 

[Mamoon]

The biggest problem in our country is that Army has become a Holy Cow, who no one can touch or question. Mamoon is correct in what he’s saying and it doesn’t serve any purpose to deny the ground realities.

The government cannot touch them because they have helped them come into power and that is why they can derail their government any time they want.

The judiciary cannot touch them because they have “information” on the judges which is used to blackmail them. Anyone who attempts to show them the mirror finds himself in hot water (see Justice Isa).

The NAB cannot touch them because the NAB Chairman is either a retired military officer, a retired SC judge or a civil servant who has learned to polish boots during his decades of service.

The journalists cannot criticize them because they end up “missing persons”.

The public cannot criticize them over the Internet because of Cyber Law.

Hence, they have a free hand to do with their country as they please. Pakistan belongs to them, not to us mere mortals. We are only here for their service.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Thank GOD they are not run by Govt otherwise they would have ended up the same way like any other sector under PMLN and PPP Govts instead of being the one of best School/Colleges/Unis system and Hospitals right now they would have been just another poor govt school or hospital thanks to corruption and incompetence of these 2 parties.

Govt should fund them and army should run them then.

 

[Mian]

The journalists cannot criticize them because they end up “missing persons”.

The public cannot criticize them over the Internet because of Cyber Law.

Public can't criticize them? That's what you and thousands others do daily on internet sitting in your comfortable bedrooms without facing cyber law. Do you think it's too hard for them to find your IP or you in a Peshawer hospital as you claim if they want to implement cyber law? Specially when you have your picture and full name posted here somewhere on PP (if it's the real one)

And journalists? The dogs like cheema noorani marvi gul bukhari sethi etc all sitting in Pakistan criticize them 24/7 without ending up as missing persons so shut this crap.

 

[WebGuru]

Govt should fund them and army should run them then.

So they are again accused of getting a big share of it from federal budget?

 

[WebGuru]

The public cannot criticize them over the Internet because of Cyber Law.

And which Govt came up with Cyber Law? Let me give you a hint the one that was ruling in 2016 and guess which party supporters suffered it first when they were arrested by FIA?

 

[cricketjoshila]

So they are again accused of getting a big share of it from federal budget?

In India also Army has its schools colleges Hospitals. Its funded by govt under the defence budget and run by armed forces.

I do not know if psk army is corrupt or not. But if any army anywhere runs huge for profit corporations then accusations will fly.

 

[King-Misbah]

According to them and FBR they do. However, this is our army we are talking about. They could refuse to pay a penny and FBR will still salute them.

So your word is more accurate then the FBR? Stop talking thrash and get a life.

 

[Bewal Express]

Public can't criticize them? That's what you and thousands others do daily on internet sitting in your comfortable bedrooms without facing cyber law. Do you think it's too hard for them to find your IP or you in a Peshawer hospital as you claim if they want to implement cyber law? Specially when you have your picture and full name posted here somewhere on PP (if it's the real one)

And journalists? The dogs like cheema noorani marvi gul bukhari sethi etc all sitting in Pakistan criticize them 24/7 without ending up as missing persons so shut this crap.

Great Post. Just more crap from the liar to get more Inds to like him.

 

[cric_man]

In India also Army has its schools colleges Hospitals. Its funded by govt under the defence budget and run by armed forces.

I do not know if psk army is corrupt or not. But if any army anywhere runs huge for profit corporations then accusations will fly.

They are essentially welfare organizations used to transition armed forces personnel into civilian life. Usually military personnel work on move up or move out process (atleast for PAF). If you are a Group Captain (Full Colonel) and there is no promotions chances to becoming an Air Commodore (Brig. General), then you retire at around 46-48 years of age. You still have 15-20 more productive years to work. These welfare orgs were set up to provide jobs to these able bodied and skilled people an opportunity to transition into civilian workforce. Each officer and jawan actually pays a contribution out of their paycheck to fund these BTW. Clear advantage they have over other private enterprises' is government land (and I don't know if they pay taxes similar to any welfare trust I maybe wrong on that). But in no way do they prohibit other private enterprises of act as mafia to shut down competitors.
I would like to know from mamoon where the corruption angle comes in specifically?

Army has Fauji Foundation which has fauji Fertilizers, Fauji Chemicals, Askari Bank
AF has Shaheen Foundation which Shaheen Airlines, Airports SVcs, Shaheen Knitwear to name a few.

 

[Junaid_ahmed]

https://www.asiatimes.com/2019/03/article/pakistani-army-moves-into-the-oil-business/

A wonderful article highlighting the looting and the plundering of the military. People talk about the corruption of politicians, but the military elite have billions of dollars worth of investment and there is no accountability whatsoever.

They have a free hand to steal, loot, bully and blackmail anyone they want and no one can question them. They are truly the kings of this country.

Well mamoon in 2005 army was in govt (officially) with musharraf as COAS & President so do you think that, that parliament can question army involvement in business?

Bring something credible bhai

 

[PetroDollars]

the profit is needed to fund the welfare of the army and there family ofcourse, each organisation has its own goal, example is the DHA, where army adds huge value to there own land and sells it at a premium to the public, what haters see is the huge windfall of profits but what they dont see is that the profit is used to provide houseing to the army and there families, dha is just a vehicle to fund housing for the army.

Just a few years ago dha launched 2 schemes, dha phase 9 and dha town, what so called intellects like ayesha sadiq saw was the massive money made from dha phase 9 which was sold to the public and made a hell of a racket of it, yet she completly ignored the fact that it was used to fund the enourmous dha gardens which was given to the families of the martyr soliders in the operations in waziristan.

The likes of ayesha sadiq are nothing but hypocrites slinging lies left right and center.

 

[cricketjoshila]

They are essentially welfare organizations used to transition armed forces personnel into civilian life. Usually military personnel work on move up or move out process (atleast for PAF). If you are a Group Captain (Full Colonel) and there is no promotions chances to becoming an Air Commodore (Brig. General), then you retire at around 46-48 years of age. You still have 15-20 more productive years to work. These welfare orgs were set up to provide jobs to these able bodied and skilled people an opportunity to transition into civilian workforce. Each officer and jawan actually pays a contribution out of their paycheck to fund these BTW. Clear advantage they have over other private enterprises' is government land (and I don't know if they pay taxes similar to any welfare trust I maybe wrong on that). But in no way do they prohibit other private enterprises of act as mafia to shut down competitors.
I would like to know from mamoon where the corruption angle comes in specifically?

Army has Fauji Foundation which has fauji Fertilizers, Fauji Chemicals, Askari Bank
AF has Shaheen Foundation which Shaheen Airlines, Airports SVcs, Shaheen Knitwear to name a few.

Is this not the Govts job to look after the welfare of the armed forces?

 

[The_Odd_One]

Military is as corrupt as politicians if not more. Anyone who denies that is probably living under a rock.

Examples of their corruption:

1. Land grabbing
2. Retired officers taking executive positions in civilian institutions
3. Military-run businesses
4. Bribes and commissions when working with civilian contractors
5. Meddling in the affairs of government
6. Harboring terrorists to use them in Kashmir and India
7. Autonomy in their operations (e.g. Kargil)
8. Bullying and harassing anyone who is a threat to them

 

[cric_man]

Is this not the Govts job to look after the welfare of the armed forces?

In an ideal world, yes...
I pray for the day when there are plentiful jobs, great healthcare and a robust social security net in Pakistan. Until then, military is doing the best they can.

 

[cricketjoshila]

In an ideal world, yes...
I pray for the day when there are plentiful jobs, great healthcare and a robust social security net in Pakistan. Until then, military is doing the best they can.

I studied in a military school run by army but funded by the govt. My classmate lost his father in Kargil. His entire schooling etc in the school was made free. He then joined the Army Law college also free of cost. In addition his family received regular pension, subsidised articles from CSD etc etc.

Is this impossible in Pakistan?

 

[IMMY69]

I studied in a military school run by army but funded by the govt. My classmate lost his father in Kargil. His entire schooling etc in the school was made free. He then joined the Army Law college also free of cost. In addition his family received regular pension, subsidised articles from CSD etc etc.

Is this impossible in Pakistan?

Yes it is possible.
Hopefully things will start to change now that IK is PM and finally the corrupt politicians are being taken to task.

Long long road ahead though.

 

[WebGuru]

I studied in a military school run by army but funded by the govt. My classmate lost his father in Kargil. His entire schooling etc in the school was made free. He then joined the Army Law college also free of cost. In addition his family received regular pension, subsidised articles from CSD etc etc.

Is this impossible in Pakistan?

All these services are given free of cost and at priority to families of martyrs in Pakistan as well including education health family pension a plot in one of the best housing society in the country etc but by Pak Army not by Govt

 

[cricketjoshila]

All these services are given free of cost and at priority to families of martyrs in Pakistan as well including education health family pension a plot in one of the best housing society in the country etc but by Pak Army not by Govt

This is my question. Why Pak Army and why not pak govt from its budget. Why so Pak army need to run corporations to fund this.

 

[yasir]

Interestingly, every post in this thread makes personal attacks on the OP instead of disputing the substance or content of what he's posted.
What does that tell you about the truth?

This is story of PP and Pakistanis in general, When you criticize Army and Islam, they go violent. That's how these institutions have survived in Pakistan. Problem is world does not run by these two...There reach ends at border, Pakistan will continue to suffer by the culture and institutional corruption of these two, well they work hand in hand

 

[WebGuru]

This is my question. Why Pak Army and why not pak govt from its budget. Why so Pak army need to run corporations to fund this.

Because Pak federal and provincial govts have been so incompetent and corrupt they can't do it just Google and you will see how many families of civil forces martyrs are still waiting for their cheques and compensation from federal and provincial govts and they are given peanuts after a wait of year or two so you can't bame army for taking care of their men and families because if they leave it to govt they will be facing same fate like other civil forces like police.

 

[cric_man]

I studied in a military school run by army but funded by the govt. My classmate lost his father in Kargil. His entire schooling etc in the school was made free. He then joined the Army Law college also free of cost. In addition his family received regular pension, subsidised articles from CSD etc etc.

Is this impossible in Pakistan?

Same thing here.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Because Pak federal and provincial govts have been so incompetent and corrupt they can't do it just Google and you will see how many families of civil forces martyrs are still waiting for their cheques and compensation from federal and provincial govts and they are given peanuts after a wait of year or two so you can't bame army for taking care of their men and families because if they leave it to govt they will be facing same fate like other civil forces like police.

The federal govt controls the army, so its their duty to see its welfare.

They cant be like "Haanji ab apna khud se dekhlo".

This year in the budget in India over 100k cr INR is allocated for pension and welfare of armed forces. Thats separate from the defence budget. It should be same in pakistan. Can you tell me how did this system come to be? Is this the same since 1947?

Tbh if Army has to look after its welfare by itself and generate funds by itself, then its becoming autonomous and is not dependent on the govt. In such a case the army will not be under the control of the govt as personnel will be loyal to the institution and not the constitution.

So this army being beyond the civilian control is as much the civilian govts doing as its the army's.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Same thing here.

But as [MENTION=133397]WebGuru[/MENTION] pointed out, the money for that comes out of the corporations that the army runs, and not out of the federal budget.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

If you are against Pakistan Army against running business, you also need to be against Pakistani civilian government running business. Otherwise its plain hypocrisy. The state run business are far worse than anything the army runs. Look at PIA at an example of a state run enterprise. Pure disaster.

And for the record I prefer complete privatization of all state run enterprises, whether run by generals or civilians.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

This is story of PP and Pakistanis in general, When you criticize Army and Islam, they go violent. That's how these institutions have survived in Pakistan. Problem is world does not run by these two...There reach ends at border, Pakistan will continue to suffer by the culture and institutional corruption of these two, well they work hand in hand

Try privatizing PIA, Steel Mill, Railways, and see how violent the people get. People are sensitive when it comes to their money.

BTW The entire country is a mess. If their was no religion, or no army involvement the country would still be a mess. Look at Sindh run by secular PPP. Look what they have done to public schools.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

In India also Army has its schools colleges Hospitals. Its funded by govt under the defence budget and run by armed forces.

I do not know if psk army is corrupt or not. But if any army anywhere runs huge for profit corporations then accusations will fly.

Of course they are corrupt. When the entire country is corrupt , why would the army not be. The thing however is that they are less corrupt than the politicians as they have to grease the hands of less people (the officer corp of the armed forces), than the politicians, who have to reward their supporters

 

[Napa]

Military is as corrupt as politicians if not more. Anyone who denies that is probably living under a rock.

Examples of their corruption:

1. Land grabbing
2. Retired officers taking executive positions in civilian institutions
3. Military-run businesses
4. Bribes and commissions when working with civilian contractors
5. Meddling in the affairs of government
6. Harboring terrorists to use them in Kashmir and India
7. Autonomy in their operations (e.g. Kargil)
8. Bullying and harassing anyone who is a threat to them

There is "illegal corruption" and "legal corruption".

"Illegal corruption" is what NS has been accused and prosecuted for, but the amounts (tens of millions of dollars) seem trifling in comparison to "legal corruption".

"Legal corruption" is when an organization says for example, "According to the law the government is going to tax you 30% and give 15% to us", or "We are going to build houses and the government is going to acquire the land and sell it to us at a price we decide" etc. It is all legal, and no one will ever be prosecuted in a court of law.

I am sure you get the drift...

 

[waqar goraya]

My father retired from government in May 2017. He has only received about half of his retirement benefits. One head of the account had an amount of 7,00,000. And for this the accounts department clerk initially demanded 50,000 as bribe.

And he retired as a gazetted officer. Another ex colleague of my father was paid his retirement gratuity/ GP fund after 5 years of retirement.

Plenty of other tales regarding civil administration's transparency and welfare.

In these circumstances army has a valid excuse of managing their own welfare businesses and schemes. There might be transgressions but the corruption and callousness in civil administration makes it necessary.

 

[cricketjoshila]

The federal govt controls the army, so its their duty to see its welfare.

They cant be like "Haanji ab apna khud se dekhlo".

This year in the budget in India over 100k cr INR is allocated for pension and welfare of armed forces. Thats separate from the defence budget. It should be same in pakistan. Can you tell me how did this system come to be? Is this the same since 1947?

Tbh if Army has to look after its welfare by itself and generate funds by itself, then its becoming autonomous and is not dependent on the govt. In such a case the army will not be under the control of the govt as personnel will be loyal to the institution and not the constitution.

So this army being beyond the civilian control is as much the civilian govts doing as its the army's.

[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION]

 

[cricketjoshila]

My father retired from government in May 2017. He has only received about half of his retirement benefits. One head of the account had an amount of 7,00,000. And for this the accounts department clerk initially demanded 50,000 as bribe.

And he retired as a gazetted officer. Another ex colleague of my father was paid his retirement gratuity/ GP fund after 5 years of retirement.

Plenty of other tales regarding civil administration's transparency and welfare.

In these circumstances army has a valid excuse of managing their own welfare businesses and schemes. There might be transgressions but the corruption and callousness in civil administration makes it necessary.

How is this money given? Cheque? Cash? Bank Transfer?

I mean the gratuity and GP.

 

[the Great Khan]

This is my question. Why Pak Army and why not pak govt from its budget. Why so Pak army need to run corporations to fund this.

Because the govt has no money. They assign a budget to the armed forces which is a pittance really if you look at it in comparison to sister forces across the world. The army then has to provide many of the funding from its own coffers. It has managed to do so through various schemes etc. Is there corruption. yes. Quite alot. But there is also accountability and a meritocracy. The organisation is more efficient and results based than all of the other public sector institutions in Pakistan.

Yes army officers can be corrupt,immoral, arrogant and at times down right stupid. But then thats what human beings are like.

But teh army knows it is teh first and last line of defence. Without them we would have nawaz ganja and his patwaris running the country like a fiefdom.

The Indian establishment will never say anything positive about the Pakistan army because why should it, but if you ask most normal people in pakistan they would rather support the army than our corrupt officials.

In a national security state like pakistan the army will always have a high status due to its historical beginnings. It is natural. it takes time for these things to change.

If our political leadership becomes more competent and less corrupt the army will simply move aside to do what it is supposed to. Anyone who thinks the army actually enjoys getting involved is a fool. They dont. They arent trained for it. They arent even that good at it..but are forced into it due to the extreme national security issues that our politicians cause.

From nawaz gunja to zardari to bhutto..they have always caused major issues. Zia was a product of teh crisi of 71 and bhuttos brutal corrupt regime. Musharref was a product of nawaz ganja's disastrous regime. Ayub khan was a massive mistake but was also a product of political turmoil.

Pakistan is a country run by waderas for waderas and the army has to look after its own to do its job..

Corruption in the armed forces exists everywhere..its nothing new..whereever large contracts change hands corruption exists..

 

[yasir]

Try privatizing PIA, Steel Mill, Railways, and see how violent the people get. People are sensitive when it comes to their money.

BTW The entire country is a mess. If their was no religion, or no army involvement the country would still be a mess. Look at Sindh run by secular PPP. Look what they have done to public schools.

Its the culture which kills you, authoritarian, top/down cultural and social model does not work in 21C. Dumbing down of masses fails horribly, religion and army model is just that, which worked 1000 years ago, but that system is terrible in today's world. People need to solve their problems themselves rather than looking at sky or generals or politicians. This Danda or God mentality is really poor way to evolve any culture... Democracy works when Free Speech(that build critical thinking) is part of culture, no authoritarian or religious culture has become democratic or leverage the fruits of Science and Tech, you can consume things here and there but can never Champion it, without changing the core tenants of your culture...

PPP works on the same model, nobody is secular in Pakistan. They all Quaid-Azam or Bhutto or Benazir or IK(biggest one is ****ing Army), they all give in to the culture of religion, they slept with the enemy, that's why all failed. There never was a cultural or social revolution in Pakistan, you are never going to get out of this mess by nurturing Army and religion, those two corner stone of our culture (which most people, love to the core) are the biggest reason we have never get our of Middle Ages

 

[Pete Rose]

The Asia Times is a garbage website and is a refuge for conspiracy mongering.

 

[Hermoine Green]

But as [MENTION=133397]WebGuru[/MENTION] pointed out, the money for that comes out of the corporations that the army runs, and not out of the federal budget.

And he is right. All the APS ( Army schools ) or hospitals which are run and funded by the army. They have nothing to do with federal budget. That's why Govrnmnt Pay Scale / or increments e.t.c are not effective to these institutions.

More like private you can say.

But the school colleges which are run by PAF or Naval are semi government .

 

[Hermoine Green]

How is this money given? Cheque? Cash? Bank Transfer?

I mean the gratuity and GP.

Cheque / bank transfer. No Cash.

 

[cricketjoshila]

And he is right. All the APS ( Army schools ) or hospitals which are run and funded by the army. They have nothing to do with federal budget. That's why Govrnmnt Pay Scale / or increments e.t.c are not effective to these institutions.

More like private you can say.

But the school colleges which are run by PAF or Naval are semi government .

This is the problem.

If the personnel know that their welfare is funded by the Armed forces and not the federal govt, their loyalty will lie with the Army and not the civilian govt.

This is why everytime the General orders the troops topple the govt. This is why army is autonomous of the state, they fund so much of their needs.

 

[MenInG]

Ministry asked to provide data on income, assets of senior military officers

ISLAMABAD: In a landmark move, the Pakistan Information Commission (PIC) has informed the defence ministry that information about income, income tax, assets, perks, privileges, post-retirement benefits and plots allotted to officers of the armed forces is public information and not sensitive information.

The commission issued these guidelines to the defence ministry on Monday while deciding 34 appeals filed by Women’s Action Forum (WAF) activists and some concerned citizens who had sought the afore-mentioned information from the defence ministry which refused to provide the data.

Those who had sent applicants for the information to the ministry inclu*ded Anis Haroon, Hilda Saeed, Nighat Said Khan, Dr Abdul Hameed Nayyar, Naila Naz, Uzma Noorani, Memoona Rauf Khan, Nasreen Azhar, Nasreen L. Siddiqui, Rubina Saigol, Maria Rashid, Naila Naz, Kausar S. Khan, Nazish Brohi and Farhatullah Babar.

Then the applicants filed the appeals in the office of the information commissioner to seek such information.

The PIC told the defence ministry that it was the responsibility of the designated “public information officer” to respond to the requests filed by the citizens under Rule 3 of the Right of Access to Information Rules, 2019.

The office of the information commission directed the defence ministry to provide information sought by the applicants within 10 working days, and warned that in case of non-compliance penalty would be imposed on the relevant officer.

“If the delay is caused or any other complaint occurs as a result of non-cooperation, faulty or delayed response on part of an officer whose assistance was sought by the designated officer, such officer shall be deemed to be designated officer after approval of the secretary concerned for purpose of imposition of penalties under the [Right of Access to Infor*mation] Act,” the PIC decision says.

The WAF in a statement has welcomed the PIC decision and said that earlier requests were sent to the defence ministry to seek the information about the chief of army staff, lieutenant generals, major generals and brigadiers of the army; air chief marshal, air marshals, air vice marshals and commodores of the air force; and admiral, vice admiral, rear admirals and commodores of the navy.

“When no [positive] response was received… from the defence ministry, the applicants approached the PIC,” the WAF said.

According to the WAF, the defence ministry responded that the information being sought was excluded from the public record under Section 7(e) of the Act which exempted “record relating to defence forces, defence installations or connected thereto and ancillary to defence and national security” from being made public.

However, the WAF said that the people’s interests lay in safeguarding the Constitution and fundamental and equal rights of all citizens and the separation of state powers.

Published in Dawn, December 9th, 2020

 

[The Viper]

The idea sounds great, but will this actually work, will they actually make all this information public?

 

[srh]

ISLAMABAD: In a landmark move, the Pakistan Information Commission (PIC) has informed the defence ministry that information about income, income tax, assets, perks, privileges, post-retirement benefits and plots allotted to officers of the armed forces is public information and not sensitive information.

The commission issued these guidelines to the defence ministry on Monday while deciding 34 appeals filed by Women’s Action Forum (WAF) activists and some concerned citizens who had sought the afore-mentioned information from the defence ministry which refused to provide the data.

Those who had sent applicants for the information to the ministry inclu*ded Anis Haroon, Hilda Saeed, Nighat Said Khan, Dr Abdul Hameed Nayyar, Naila Naz, Uzma Noorani, Memoona Rauf Khan, Nasreen Azhar, Nasreen L. Siddiqui, Rubina Saigol, Maria Rashid, Naila Naz, Kausar S. Khan, Nazish Brohi and Farhatullah Babar.

Then the applicants filed the appeals in the office of the information commissioner to seek such information.

The PIC told the defence ministry that it was the responsibility of the designated “public information officer” to respond to the requests filed by the citizens under Rule 3 of the Right of Access to Information Rules, 2019.

The office of the information commission directed the defence ministry to provide information sought by the applicants within 10 working days, and warned that in case of non-compliance penalty would be imposed on the relevant officer.

“If the delay is caused or any other complaint occurs as a result of non-cooperation, faulty or delayed response on part of an officer whose assistance was sought by the designated officer, such officer shall be deemed to be designated officer after approval of the secretary concerned for purpose of imposition of penalties under the [Right of Access to Infor*mation] Act,” the PIC decision says.

The WAF in a statement has welcomed the PIC decision and said that earlier requests were sent to the defence ministry to seek the information about the chief of army staff, lieutenant generals, major generals and brigadiers of the army; air chief marshal, air marshals, air vice marshals and commodores of the air force; and admiral, vice admiral, rear admirals and commodores of the navy.

“When no [positive] response was received… from the defence ministry, the applicants approached the PIC,” the WAF said.

According to the WAF, the defence ministry responded that the information being sought was excluded from the public record under Section 7(e) of the Act which exempted “record relating to defence forces, defence installations or connected thereto and ancillary to defence and national security” from being made public.

However, the WAF said that the people’s interests lay in safeguarding the Constitution and fundamental and equal rights of all citizens and the separation of state powers.

Published in Dawn, December 9th, 2020

The original Imran Khan (when not in power) would have welcomed this. The new Imran Khan (now in power) opposes it.

 

[Slog]

So one more bad decision by the Pak Army.

 

[Mamoon]

The Defense Ministry is powerless and holds no real authority on the military.

The lack of transparency regarding military assets is not justifiable. Imran takes a so-called stand against corruption but ignores the corruption done by the military. These officers live like kings and well and truly beyond their means.

Nothing will happen though - the military will make a few phone calls and these people will shiver in their boots, and on top of that, Imran himself will support the lack of transparency in this case because he has to protect his own interests.

 

[Mamoon]

The original Imran Khan (when not in power) would have welcomed this. The new Imran Khan (now in power) opposes it.

The original Imran Khan was a good man. May he rest in peace.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

The original Imran Khan (when not in power) would have welcomed this. The new Imran Khan (now in power) opposes it.

Where does it say Imran Khan opposes it? Becaue of the defense ministry refusing to provide the records? The defense Minister in Pakistan does not have any power.