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Pakistani fans and their obsessions

SaadAliG

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I've noticed for years, ours fan seem to care mostly about the numbers rather than a players character and match winning ability.

1. Batting Average: Batting Average is the number our fans are most obsessed with. Every debate is decided by the batting average at the end regardless of the quality of the opposition or conditions. Even the manner of innings, rather it helped or hampered the match, is not discussed.

2. Endorsement: If Waseem Akram posts in favor of a bowler, he must be as good as him. If Warne has posted a player's video, let's celebrate.

3. Supporting players, not team: Final one is the worst one. Supporting a player unconditionally. Heck I've heard a friend, long time fan of Salman Butt, suggest that Salman Butt should be recalled to open the innings.
 
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An example would be:

There’s posters here that want Imam ul Haq in the ODI side just because he averages 50, but if you take away the minnows then he doesn’t even average 40. They look at his overall stats and ignore the fact that he’s a minnow basher and then say he’s a better opener than Fakhar/Sharjeel.
 
Batting averages matter alot.

You cannot disect conditions. No one here is at the ground to see the actual conditions. We make judgements on conditions based on the bowling..sometimrs the opposition isnt that skilfull.

For example youmight say performances at Sena counts only, however the lords pitch is abit flatter according to pundits which is why asia teams do well there.

Also, once marcus north took wickets against us even though there wasnt that much spin on the wicket.

Avgs is the benchmark. 50 is atg and 40 is par.

And imam ul haq is a good batsmen
 
There's plenty of threads about Imam's performances which I won't get into.

What I will say is that people will resort to backing players to fail so that they can get replaced with the players they want.

Nobody is willing to back the Pakistan team as an entire unit.

Sharjeel fans will hate on Rizwan, Mohammad Amir fans will hate on Shaheen, and the cycle continues.

The mindset of the fan is to bring politics into sport for no reason.

Yes, share your concerns for selection and make cases, but blindly hating players is perhaps the biggest misfortune with Pakistan cricket.
 
The biggest cliche trotted out by our fanbase is how we lack an "aggressive" mindset.

So with a bit more fake macho posturing and fewer "timid kittens" in the team, we'd be conquering the world apparently.
 
1) In tests its average more often than not thats the key indicator while in whiteball cricket SR also comes into play. One can definitely argue thats dont always paint the complete picture but, stat is the only objective parameter and everything else is subjective more often than not. So we cant undermine the importance of stats. Everything other than stats can be opinionized to fill in different agendas or personal likes and dislikes. Also statistically consistent player is going to overall contribute more in the wins than someone who is inconsistent but, once in a blue boon can play a gem.

2) Not that common and even if they endorse someone I don't think fans go haywire just because of that. There is a misunderstanding generally that fans commenting or talking about someone = hyping them. Just because a young guy comes under discussion it doesn't mean he is being considered some sort of upcoming legend. People who follow different sports like talking about those sports and players.

3) Completely agreed. Have been surprised many times how some fans sometimes prefer team to lose for a certain player to come in or a coach to go etc. Also rigidness of some is sometimes a surprise as well as they try to keep on downplaying a player they don't like one way or another rather than changing their views and aligning them with the reality.
 
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The biggest cliche trotted out by our fanbase is how we lack an "aggressive" mindset.

So with a bit more fake macho posturing and fewer "timid kittens" in the team, we'd be conquering the world apparently.

Yes, this false hope of having an aggressive mindset just serves to give deluded fans the pretense that all is not lost.

Let me be the first to say that Pakistan Cricket is staring at the barrel of a gun.

In simple economics, there is a theory or a phrase we describe as being "the window of opportunity". It's a time period where any citizens, governments, or firms can reap the rewards of a desirable action. It's an incredibly short time period as well, perhaps to balance between doing the right thing but staying on your toes as well.

I could ask a lot of people here when this so-called "window of opportunity" occurred, but hardly many would correctly mention it.

Just to make it fair, I'll say that there were exactly two windows like the one I described earlier (post-2010).

They were the 2011 World Cup and the 2015 World Cup. Our performances in the 2011 World Cup were okay, we should really have won the tournament had our ingrained ability to drop catches not preceded our own performances. We were horrible in the 2015 World Cup though. One could also add the 2016 T20 World Cup to that list, but I didn't as it was quite insignificant as far as the relevance of the format was concerned at that time period.

After getting out of both the 2011 and 2015 World Cup, we continued to follow the same path. In that time period, a lot of teams who got knocked out or didn't qualify had the chance to improve their performances by triggering a change in their entire domestic systems.

England is perhaps the biggest example. Do you seriously think they just got players like Roy and Bairstow overnight? This was an entire process, where they agreed upon a distinct set of criteria where they would select players. They had no issues in getting rid of players who had served them well, it was not in their interest to carry around such players for any longer.

New Zealand also went through a transformation like this, and a lot of other boards did as well. This happened because they were willing to put the time and resources into their domestic systems to produce a desirable change.

After losing a World Cup, domestic performers for that country would see it as an opportunity to make the team ahead of other players. That is when you can afford to change the requirements in domestic cricket, either by investing in more explosive players like England did, or diversifying the already available pool of players to include those which you might need in the future. The incentive to perform rises when you know there is an opportunity, and that is what these boards capitalized on.

After both of these events, Pakistan made minimal changes in the aspect that cost us the tournaments, being our batting and fielding performances. We kept on moving along with the same washed up group of players until the 2016 T20 World Cup, and even after, we continued with most of those players as well. We missed that period of development where other boards saw the types of players needed for the new international arena.

Do our fans really think that the new ultra-aggressive players of the modern day and age came around overnight?

The other boards (the ones succeeding right now) saw this change coming and had no issues investing in players of this caliber. We missed that boat a long time ago, and your ticket doesn't stay valid for long.

As a result, the boards that are succeeding right now are those who invested greatly into players who could fit into the standards of modern cricket moving forward. We made no such investments, and if we did, they are poor ones.

The successful boards were able to predict the change in international cricket, and dispose of those players who did not suit them any longer.

Do you think Kohli took captaincy from MS because he was a better captain? No, it is because India saw that Yuvraj, Raina, and Dhoni did not serve them any purpose in T20Is, and it allowed Kohli the freedom to choose and develop players according to the modern standard.

Look at the most successful teams right now and compare their squads from the World Cups they participated in, to the following years afterward.

These teams made the hard decisions and looked into the future, whereas we failed to invest in the youth and are looking into the past to find players who performed millennia ago.

I'm glad that you realize this [MENTION=53290]Markhor[/MENTION].

We are right now at a cliff as I would describe it. There is very little time left before we fall over, and that won't be a pretty sight.

I hope our fans realize that Pakistan doesn't have a plethora of talent and that too because we failed to invest in good a grassroots structure and didn't make the right decisions regarding Pakistan A tours.

Fans need to wake up and see the reality of the situation: we are at the peak of what I'll describe as a rollercoaster ride. You hope that there might be a few bumps on the way to break your fall, but undoubtedly, our cricket is going down the drain.

It all comes down to the same problems like poor selection, no investment, pathetic leadership, nepotism, and the usual stuff you see with Pakistan Cricket.

People might say that I'm being dramatic, but this is a reality that most of us need to start accepting. There are enough signs pointing towards a great downfall of Pakistan Cricket, and there's no point in making yourself feel good after you batter an already crippled Zimbabwe team.

There's no point in making suggestions to improve either because nobody in the higher level of the PCB can do anything about the decisions that should have been taken years ago.

So let it be clear: you can't fix our cricket with injecting artificial aggression if half the team is content with beating the bottom 5 teams. Good teams have a drive to succeed, we do not.
 
I've noticed for years, ours fan seem to care mostly about the numbers rather than a players character and match winning ability.

1. Batting Average: Batting Average is the number our fans are most obsessed with. Every debate is decided by the batting average at the end regardless of the quality of the opposition or conditions. Even the manner of innings, rather it helped or hampered the match, is not discussed.

2. Endorsement: If Waseem Akram posts in favor of a bowler, he must be as good as him. If Warne has posted a player's video, let's celebrate.

3. Supporting players, not team: Final one is the worst one. Supporting a player unconditionally. Heck I've heard a friend, long time fan of Salman Butt, suggest that Salman Butt should be recalled to open the innings.

Lol at that first point. You are clearly trying to defend your favourite Asad Shafiq 😂
 
"Let's hope we lose and get knocked out of (upcoming tournament) so it can be a blessing in disguise when (player/coach/selector) is booted out of the team."
 
The biggest cliche trotted out by our fanbase is how we lack an "aggressive" mindset.

So with a bit more fake macho posturing and fewer "timid kittens" in the team, we'd be conquering the world apparently.

Agree with this whole heartedly! What's more is that nothing will be aggressive enough for our fans!

I mean we literally went at 6.5-7 RPO in the current test and took 8 wickets in the day and it still wasn't good enough for some people lolol...
 
Biggest obsession: blaming Misbah for the obvious lack of talent, skill and mental strength of our players.

It is a convenient coping mechanism for the delusional fans who cannot cope with the reality that our players are just not good enough regardless of who is coaching them.
 
Actually the biggest obsession of Pakistani fans are mediocre hard-hitting batsmen. Its an obsession that has been there since the days of Afridi and its an obsession that isn't going away anytime soon.

Just look at how enamored people are by Sharjeel, eventhough he has done nothing and looks worse than he ever has. Or how they were jumping to justify Azam Khan's selection.
 
Biggest obsession is Misbah has saved Pakistan cricket in 2010
We used to live in past , and mediocre glories.. For all his weaknesses, he is just pardoned for all his mistakes just because of 2010 scandal..

If Misbah alone is not to be blamed for losses, then he should also not be credited for post 2010 revival? In fact, all those players who played post 2010 kept their conduct
 
Kinda disagreeing with OP on 2 points and agreeing on one.

Batting Average: Disagree with OP. An excellent statistic to judge a batsman, even if not the only one. To your point, you can dissect batting average data by home vs away and by opposition to arrive at very good conclusions about a batsman.
Top player Endorsement: Disagree with OP. Usually if many top players are raving about a player, it is a solid endorsement of that player's value/potential etc. They know their stuff. Caution of course, because former players tend to overdo praise so if only one or two are saying something good about a player, best wait for more evidence.
Supporting player not team: Agree with OP. People who disparage or support a player because it fulfills their agenda, even at the expense of their team, are bottom feeders. They have no place in support.
 
I can add no. 4
the fascination for speed instead of accuracy with their bowlers
 
Pakistani fans are just like other fans.

You can always find a narrative to suit a story with a subset of fans from any country.
 
Yes, this false hope of having an aggressive mindset just serves to give deluded fans the pretense that all is not lost.

Let me be the first to say that Pakistan Cricket is staring at the barrel of a gun.

In simple economics, there is a theory or a phrase we describe as being "the window of opportunity". It's a time period where any citizens, governments, or firms can reap the rewards of a desirable action. It's an incredibly short time period as well, perhaps to balance between doing the right thing but staying on your toes as well.

I could ask a lot of people here when this so-called "window of opportunity" occurred, but hardly many would correctly mention it.

Just to make it fair, I'll say that there were exactly two windows like the one I described earlier (post-2010).

They were the 2011 World Cup and the 2015 World Cup. Our performances in the 2011 World Cup were okay, we should really have won the tournament had our ingrained ability to drop catches not preceded our own performances. We were horrible in the 2015 World Cup though. One could also add the 2016 T20 World Cup to that list, but I didn't as it was quite insignificant as far as the relevance of the format was concerned at that time period.

After getting out of both the 2011 and 2015 World Cup, we continued to follow the same path. In that time period, a lot of teams who got knocked out or didn't qualify had the chance to improve their performances by triggering a change in their entire domestic systems.

England is perhaps the biggest example. Do you seriously think they just got players like Roy and Bairstow overnight? This was an entire process, where they agreed upon a distinct set of criteria where they would select players. They had no issues in getting rid of players who had served them well, it was not in their interest to carry around such players for any longer.

New Zealand also went through a transformation like this, and a lot of other boards did as well. This happened because they were willing to put the time and resources into their domestic systems to produce a desirable change.

After losing a World Cup, domestic performers for that country would see it as an opportunity to make the team ahead of other players. That is when you can afford to change the requirements in domestic cricket, either by investing in more explosive players like England did, or diversifying the already available pool of players to include those which you might need in the future. The incentive to perform rises when you know there is an opportunity, and that is what these boards capitalized on.

After both of these events, Pakistan made minimal changes in the aspect that cost us the tournaments, being our batting and fielding performances. We kept on moving along with the same washed up group of players until the 2016 T20 World Cup, and even after, we continued with most of those players as well. We missed that period of development where other boards saw the types of players needed for the new international arena.

Do our fans really think that the new ultra-aggressive players of the modern day and age came around overnight?

The other boards (the ones succeeding right now) saw this change coming and had no issues investing in players of this caliber. We missed that boat a long time ago, and your ticket doesn't stay valid for long.

As a result, the boards that are succeeding right now are those who invested greatly into players who could fit into the standards of modern cricket moving forward. We made no such investments, and if we did, they are poor ones.

The successful boards were able to predict the change in international cricket, and dispose of those players who did not suit them any longer.

Do you think Kohli took captaincy from MS because he was a better captain? No, it is because India saw that Yuvraj, Raina, and Dhoni did not serve them any purpose in T20Is, and it allowed Kohli the freedom to choose and develop players according to the modern standard.

Look at the most successful teams right now and compare their squads from the World Cups they participated in, to the following years afterward.

These teams made the hard decisions and looked into the future, whereas we failed to invest in the youth and are looking into the past to find players who performed millennia ago.

I'm glad that you realize this [MENTION=53290]Markhor[/MENTION].

We are right now at a cliff as I would describe it. There is very little time left before we fall over, and that won't be a pretty sight.

I hope our fans realize that Pakistan doesn't have a plethora of talent and that too because we failed to invest in good a grassroots structure and didn't make the right decisions regarding Pakistan A tours.

Fans need to wake up and see the reality of the situation: we are at the peak of what I'll describe as a rollercoaster ride. You hope that there might be a few bumps on the way to break your fall, but undoubtedly, our cricket is going down the drain.

It all comes down to the same problems like poor selection, no investment, pathetic leadership, nepotism, and the usual stuff you see with Pakistan Cricket.

People might say that I'm being dramatic, but this is a reality that most of us need to start accepting. There are enough signs pointing towards a great downfall of Pakistan Cricket, and there's no point in making yourself feel good after you batter an already crippled Zimbabwe team.

There's no point in making suggestions to improve either because nobody in the higher level of the PCB can do anything about the decisions that should have been taken years ago.

So let it be clear: you can't fix our cricket with injecting artificial aggression if half the team is content with beating the bottom 5 teams. Good teams have a drive to succeed, we do not.

It's a hopeless cause, we've lost too much ground now on the Big 3 after years of underinvestment in key areas.

I'd chart our demise earlier from the late 1990s and early 2000s when we failed to recognise cricket was rapidly professionalising on and off-the-field. Instead of adopting a systematic route to success through data driven and opposition specific strategies - we remained reliant on mercurial individual superstars.

With English County Cricket no longer the finishing school for our cricketers - we needed to streamline and invest in our domestic cricket. Instead our incompetent CEO at the time (the incoming Chairman - god help us) oversaw its decline.

New Zealand may struggle once their top names retire, but I'd back them to bounce back since they've a track record of producing elite sporting teams, e.g. The All Blacks.

Tell me a single elite sporting institution (or that matter any institution) in Pakistan. Probably the army and we all know why that's the case. Everything else is a morass of mediocrity including our cricketers who just don't recognise the constant critical self-evaluation, sacrifice and dedication required for success.

I cannot tell you how many times I turned down social invitations when I studied for my finals and my qualification exam. I'm sure I'm not the only one. Yet at the 2019 World Cup these clowns were caught stuffing their faces at seemingly every takeaway and desi gathering in the UK with not a care in the world.

A team of players and coaches that steadfastly refuses to learn from its mistakes is not worthy of support, only indifference which is where I'm at.
 
It's a hopeless cause, we've lost too much ground now on the Big 3 after years of underinvestment in key areas.

I'd chart our demise earlier from the late 1990s and early 2000s when we failed to recognise cricket was rapidly professionalising on and off-the-field. Instead of adopting a systematic route to success through data driven and opposition specific strategies - we remained reliant on mercurial individual superstars.

With English County Cricket no longer the finishing school for our cricketers - we needed to streamline and invest in our domestic cricket. Instead our incompetent CEO at the time (the incoming Chairman - god help us) oversaw its decline.

New Zealand may struggle once their top names retire, but I'd back them to bounce back since they've a track record of producing elite sporting teams, e.g. The All Blacks.

Tell me a single elite sporting institution (or that matter any institution) in Pakistan. Probably the army and we all know why that's the case. Everything else is a morass of mediocrity including our cricketers who just don't recognise the constant critical self-evaluation, sacrifice and dedication required for success.

I cannot tell you how many times I turned down social invitations when I studied for my finals and my qualification exam. I'm sure I'm not the only one. Yet at the 2019 World Cup these clowns were caught stuffing their faces at seemingly every takeaway and desi gathering in the UK with not a care in the world.

A team of players and coaches that steadfastly refuses to learn from its mistakes is not worthy of support, only indifference which is where I'm at.

Well written as always.

I completely agree with you on all the points you mentioned.

If you don't have the desire to make sacrifices and take the difficult decisions, you can count on being unsuccessful.

When cricket was being professionalized, our team was at the center of controversy.

Missed investment is something that hits you in the face years later. Those who saw the dominance of cryptocurrencies years ago are the ones swimming in pools of cash now.

It's about highlighting what has to be done in the future in order to improve, and fixing what can be fixed before it gets too difficult to deal with.

If I were Ramiz Raja, I would accept that we have lost a lot of time, but my first objective would be to revive Pakistan A tours and wipe the dust off the grassroots system. I would heavily prioritize U-19 cricket and would want more teams in the domestic circuit along with 2nd XIs which should have an age bracket to fast-track youngsters who are seeping with potential into the domestic system. Now is the time to invest for the future, we cannot get caught on our haunches again.

Having a successful cricket team is like taking care of a garden. You plant the seeds, you take care of the seeds, and you thrive once the product is ready. You then repeat the process again, and again, and again to create a virtually endless pool of talent that is ready for the international level, ripe for picking.
 
Every Pakistani player is at least 3-5 years older than their stated age because pAkIsTaN
 
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