Pakistanis who can only find faults with their nation and don't have anything positive to say

[R3verse Swing]

Indians now denying the experiences of Indians who fled their country. Their denial is superceded by the fact, why leave India if its a booming economy filled with equal opportunity? (This is the first question Brits ask).

Pakistanis know the reason why and this is what hurts Indians most.

Indians are more critical of their country than Pakistanis. The sheer number of Indian migrants is a testament to this fact.

 

[TM Riddle]

You know you are short of convincing arguments when you start steering the conversation to usual anti India tirade in order to hide the basic problems rampant in your own community .
Classic Namak Halal

 

[R3verse Swing]

Could be, or it could be that some people actually believe factually incorrect stereotypes.

Of course. They will believe what they want as long as it'll fit a narrative. Case in point, Indians going on about Pakistanis, but Pakistanis agreeing with Indians are the salt of the earth.

I'm loving how Indians are getting riled up because their countrymen choose the better life by abandoning the myth that is India. Not just critical of their motherland, but abusive towards it too.

 

[shaz619]

Because they don't seem to be the most appetizing members of the British society: negative stories abound, and they don't seem to be too high on the education/integration scale either. And since they resemble other desis (Indians, Bangladeshis, etc.), the equivalent of collateral damage occurs.

A lot has changed on the ground and obviously from the outside you will hold certain views but if you had lived here for decades then you'd see that, in my inner city both Indians and Pakistani's have been troublesome. And am someone from those neighbourhoods who has pursued higher education but that shouldn't be used as a metric to determine success or failure because others pursued distinct career opportunities and have been successful in them.

But who you're talking about in the present are British Pathans, they have always been the same. 9 times out of 10 indulge in chaprasi behaviour, honour killings and what not, all kinds of thuggery when they crap their pants when the playing field is levelled and have never been the sharpest tools in the box, mentally they remain barbarians unfortunately but that's not hard to see, it's in their nature even those who pose as esteemed members of society just look at the lot from peshawar for example

 

[R3verse Swing]

Why are Indians bothering with this thread then if they claim it has nothing to do with India? In for a cheap laugh? Any old excuse to criticise Pakistan I guess.

Why not post in the thread where terrorists funded by India were caught in Hyderabad, Pakistan, in retaliation to CPEC? Or where Indian bookies were caught yet again trying to infiltrate the PSL with corruption?

Hmmm.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Not sure how India has anything to do with the topic on hand... Also using the same insult about "but but they live in council housing" is just poor and childish. Like surely there is something else, that you can point out to continue bashing British Pakistanis with? They probably have a list of them....

Yes it's rather tedious that this is becoming an India-Pakistan thread when it really shouldn't concern them, but predictable nonetheless once Slog Varun-friend steered the topic towards *shudder* British Pakistanis. But they make cute bedfellows the Indian patriots and Pakistan self-haters. Indeed in one of the other threads one Indian even said that one of those who piped up here was only popular with Indians.

 

[j_kazmi]

This thread is all over the place at the moment

But seriously everyone seems to be getting too personal in this conversation. You can criticise another group of people without getting so rude and personal.

I’m British Pakistani myself and I get the criticisms people have about some us but some people in this thread seem to be more interested in offending on another than having an actual conversation.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Thats great, unfortunately financially well off isnt the defining factor of your status in society

Unfortunately for you it is.

 

[English August]

Yes it's rather tedious that this is becoming an India-Pakistan thread when it really shouldn't concern them, but predictable nonetheless once Slog Varun-friend steered the topic towards *shudder* British Pakistanis. But they make cute bedfellows the Indian patriots and Pakistan self-haters. Indeed in one of the other threads one Indian even said that one of those who piped up here was only popular with Indians.

You're just annoyed by the fact that you're finding yourselves trying to defend the British Pakistanis. Probably it's not very easy to do given their reputation hence the annoyance.

For all those who're talking about this thread getting derailed, I have a question for you: why feed the trolls / spinmeisters and why not stick to the subject the OP started off with? Do people disagree with the assertion that IPL > PSL and CPEC is bad for Pakistan in the long run?

 

[R3verse Swing]

More Indians have posted in this thread than relevant Pakistanis. Sums it up.

The love, and hurt, is strong.

 

[R3verse Swing]

CPEC is great for Pakistan, this is proven by the fact, 'India-backed' terrorist group were busted in Hyderabad in opposition of CPEC.

http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...rorist-group-busted-in-Hyderabad-police-claim

Strike 1 out of 5 points in the OP.

Next please.

 

[TM Riddle]

And now we are on to Indians and their latent jealousy towards the great CPEC
Level 2 Thread derailment begins

 

[English August]

CPEC is great for Pakistan, this is proven by the fact, 'India-backed' terrorist group were busted in Hyderabad in opposition of CPEC.

http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...rorist-group-busted-in-Hyderabad-police-claim

Strike 1 out of 5 points in the OP.

Next please.

Better way to strike 1 out of 5 would be to post links to actual content that proves that CPEC is good for Pakistan. Are their project reports / cost-benefit analyses I can look at?

 

[R3verse Swing]

Better way to strike 1 out of 5 would be to post links to actual content that proves that CPEC is good for Pakistan. Are their project reports / cost-benefit analyses I can look at?

What nonsense. How can there be any links to *prove* the benefit of CPEC when CPEC has not even been implemented in full?

However, there is evidence, in that, no better way than numbers. Are you going to denying in terms of investment CPEC is bad for Pakistan? After all, Indians value their existence based on numbers exclusively, be it income, GDP, or PPP, or even foreign investment that is on the horizon!

I get it, CPEC is more of a political threat to India, but hey, India bailed out after all. Could've shared the spoils of *war*.

Now talk to me more about terrorists in Hyderabad funded by Indians to derail CPEC.

Like I said, NEXT please.

 

[R3verse Swing]

Should add the link to the news of Indians funding terrorists in Pakistan opposing CPEC, was from Dawn.com. A favourite of Indians when it comes to demeaning Pakistan, but no so favourite when India is exposed. Did I mention selective acceptance?

https://www.dawn.com/news/1392745/india-backed-terrorist-group-busted-in-hyderabad-police-claim

 

[English August]

What nonsense. How can there be any links to *prove* the benefit of CPEC when CPEC has not even been implemented in full?


Like I said, NEXT please.

No, let's stay on this subject before we do "NEXT please" -- what's the hurry?!

You're probably not familiar with how project financing works, so here's a lesson for you. In a professional set up, before any project is funded, there is a business case (aka cost-benefit analysis) that's produced that clearly lays out the investment needed and benefits that will accrue (including qualitative benefits).

This is done even for small projects worth $50M. Are you telling me that your Chinese lords and masters decided to approve projects worth $56B without any cost benefit analysis?

 

[R3verse Swing]

No, let's stay on this subject before we do "NEXT please" -- what's the hurry?!

You're probably not familiar with how project financing works, so here's a lesson for you. In a professional set up, before any project is funded, there is a business case (aka cost-benefit analysis) that's produced that clearly lays out the investment needed and benefits that will accrue (including qualitative benefits).

This is done even for small projects worth $50M. Are you telling me that your Chinese lords and masters decided to approve projects worth $56B without any cost benefit analysis?

There is no hurry, just a delay on your part, and your brethren, given the fact you are refusing to comment on terrorists funded by Indians in Pakistan to derail CPEC. What’s up? Dawn not a reliable source?

So, let's stay on the subject. The points mentioned in the OP.

You show me how CPEC is bad for Pakistan. Demonstrate how foreign investment is bad? Provide detail since India would not be where it is had it not been for foreign investment.

Moving on, despite what you say, BLOOMBERG article, states “We expect CPEC related economic activities will in fact revive the interest of foreign investors in Pakistan,” CLICK HERE - Recall why Pakistan's Stock market is performing far better than Nifty/Sensex of India.

Not enough? Here is a document by Deloitte, CLICK HERE - titled How will CPEC boost Pakistan economy? Your opinion and insecurity is above a word leading financial institute and accounting firm?

So come back to me why foreign investment benefits India, but does not benefit Pakistan. We all know the answer, but give it a go!

 

[WC-Passion]

Yes it's rather tedious that this is becoming an India-Pakistan thread when it really shouldn't concern them, but predictable nonetheless once Slog Varun-friend steered the topic towards *shudder* British Pakistanis. But they make cute bedfellows the Indian patriots and Pakistan self-haters. Indeed in one of the other threads one Indian even said that one of those who piped up here was only popular with Indians.

Exactly, what is there problem? This topic doesn't involve them. Oh wait, it's an opportunity to throw shade at an ethnic group they don't like. What a surprise.

Of course. They will believe what they want as long as it'll fit a narrative. Case in point, Indians going on about Pakistanis, but Pakistanis agreeing with Indians are the salt of the earth.

I'm loving how Indians are getting riled up because their countrymen choose the better life by abandoning the myth that is India. Not just critical of their motherland, but abusive towards it too.

Yeah of course, if it fits the narrative, throw it out there in the post even if it's complete nonsense. Pretty low stuff. Don't agree with getting Indians involved in this topic, just feeds the trolls and derails the thread.

 

[WC-Passion]

You're just annoyed by the fact that you're finding yourselves trying to defend the British Pakistanis. Probably it's not very easy to do given their reputation hence the annoyance.

For all those who're talking about this thread getting derailed, I have a question for you: why feed the trolls / spinmeisters and why not stick to the subject the OP started off with? Do people disagree with the assertion that IPL > PSL and CPEC is bad for Pakistan in the long run?

It is quite annoying to see, I agree with the second part of the post, but then it doesn't help when the thread is flooded with cheap shots from posters the topic doesn't even concern.

Also there is a difference between pointing out complete nonsense, and defending. Just to let you know. Otherwise people tend to believe the stuff they read as long as they agree with the perspective of the posters who post such rubbish.

 

[R3verse Swing]

Yeah of course, if it fits the narrative, throw it out there in the post even if it's complete nonsense. Pretty low stuff. Don't agree with getting Indians involved in this topic, just feeds the trolls and derails the thread.

Indians are only getting involved because the comments by false flaggers and haters fits their emotions and hatred of Pakistan. You see if an Indian posted the points in the OP then the reaction would clearly be different, resulting in Indian users absconding the forum. However since alleged Pakistanis are behind some of the claims in the OP, Indians feels they have a leg to stand on via stealth. Trojan Trolls is the best way to describe them. To draw a parallel, terrorists funded by India, in Pakistan.

 

[WC-Passion]

Indians are only getting involved because the comments by false flaggers and haters fits their emotions and hatred of Pakistan. You see if an Indian posted the points in the OP then the reaction would clearly be different, resulting in Indian users absconding the forum. However since alleged Pakistanis are behind some of the claims in the OP, Indians feels they have a leg to stand on via stealth. Trojan Trolls is the best way to describe them. To draw a parallel, terrorists funded by India, in Pakistan.

Yes, they seem to "love to feed" on the fact some "native" Pakistani posters in this thread have made comments about other British Pakistani posters, (or whatever you're trying to claim here), however this whole discussion about CPEC and PSL v IPL that posters have created is just exactly what these "Trojan Trolls" want and if you just stayed to the original topic, you wouldn't have to be posting about their nonsense.

 

[English August]

There is no hurry, just a delay on your part, and your brethren, given the fact you are refusing to comment on terrorists funded by Indians in Pakistan to derail CPEC. What’s up? Dawn not a reliable source?

So, let's stay on the subject. The points mentioned in the OP.

You show me how CPEC is bad for Pakistan. Demonstrate how foreign investment is bad? Provide detail since India would not be where it is had it not been for foreign investment.

Moving on, despite what you say, BLOOMBERG article, states “We expect CPEC related economic activities will in fact revive the interest of foreign investors in Pakistan,” CLICK HERE - Recall why Pakistan's Stock market is performing far better than Nifty/Sensex of India.

Not enough? Here is a document by Deloitte, CLICK HERE - titled How will CPEC boost Pakistan economy? Your opinion and insecurity is above a word leading financial institute and accounting firm?

So come back to me why foreign investment benefits India, but does not benefit Pakistan. We all know the answer, but give it a go!

Pakistan stock market's performance vis-a-vis India's has nothing to do with CPEC, so not sure why you'd provide me that link. (You could have as easily provided link to Aus-SF test match and it would be equally relevant)

So all you got was a 5-page report by Deloitte? Of which 2 pages are devoted to colorful maps and pictures! I couldn't see any details in that report. It doesn't talk about financing structure. How much of this is debt vs. equity? For debt, what are the terms and conditions? Who's underwriting? For equity part, what are the names of the agencies that are the holders of the equity?

On the benefits side, all I saw was platitudes on how it will do this and that, with zero details behind the assumptions. If I had written a project report like this for one of my Finance courses during my MBA, I'd get an F! If i did this at work, I'd get fired on the spot!

Do you have anything more substantial? Or all you can produce is a 5 page vague report for a $56B project? It's perfectly fine to admit that you've got nothing. We'll then move on.

 

[R3verse Swing]

Pakistan stock market's performance vis-a-vis India's has nothing to do with CPEC, so not sure why you'd provide me that link. (You could have as easily provided link to Aus-SF test match and it would be equally relevant)

So all you got was a 5-page report by Deloitte? Of which 2 pages are devoted to colorful maps and pictures! I couldn't see any details in that report. It doesn't talk about financing structure. How much of this is debt vs. equity? For debt, what are the terms and conditions? Who's underwriting? For equity part, what are the names of the agencies that are the holders of the equity?

On the benefits side, all I saw was platitudes on how it will do this and that, with zero details behind the assumptions. If I had written a project report like this for one of my Finance courses during my MBA, I'd get an F! If i did this at work, I'd get fired on the spot!

Do you have anything more substantial? Or all you can produce is a 5 page vague report for a $56B project? It's perfectly fine to admit that you've got nothing. We'll then move on.

That's not all I have, there's plenty more. Google yourself, do not let fear stop you.

But what is clear is so you will ignore Bloomberg and Deloitte when it comes to Pakistan but not India. Figures.

Also you have not read the report. I can vouch for this.

Pay attention

The CPEC will open doors to immense economic opportunities not only to Pakistan but will physically connect China to its markets in Asia, Europe and beyond. Almost 80% of the China’s oil is currently transported from
Strait of Malacca to Shanghai, (distance is almost 16,000 km and takes 2-3 months), with Gwadar becoming operational, the distance would reduce to less than 5,000 km. If all goes well and on schedule, of the 21
agreements on energy– including gas, coal and solar energy– 14 will be able to provide up to 10,400 megawatts (MW) of energy by March 2018. According to China Daily, these projects would provide up to
16,400 MW of energy altogether.

As part of infrastructure projects worth approximately $11 billion, and 1,100 kilometer long motorway will be constructed between the cities of Karachi and Lahore,2 while the Karakoram Highway between Rawalpindi and the Chinese border will be completely reconstructed and overhauled. The Karachi–Peshawar main railway line will also be upgraded to allow for train travel at up to 160 kilometers per hour by December 2019.3
Pakistan's railway network will also be extended to eventually connect to China's Southern Xinjiang Railway in Kashgar.4 A network of pipelines to transport liquefied natural gas and oil will also be laid as part of
the project, including a $2.5 billion pipeline between Gwadar and Nawabshah to transport gas from Iran.5

Oil from the Middle East could be offloaded at Gwadar and transported to China through the corridor, cutting the current 12,000 km journey to 2,395 km. It will act as a bridge for the new Maritime Silk Route that
envisages linking 3 billion people in Asia, Africa and Europe, part of a trans-Eurasian project. When fully operational, Gwadar will promote the economic development of Pakistan and become a gateway for Central
Asian countries, including Afghanistan, Uzbekistan, linking Sri Lanka, Iran and Xinjiang to undertake marine transport.6

Over $33 billion worth of energy infrastructure will be constructed by private consortia to help alleviate Pakistan's chronic energy shortages,7 which regularly amount to over 4,500MW,8 and have shed an estimated
2-2.5% off Pakistan's annual GDP.9With approximately $33 billion expected to be invested in energy sector projects, power generation assumes an important role in the CPEC project. Over 10,400MW of energy generating capacity is to be developed between 2018 and 2020 as part of the corridor's fast-tracked "Early Harvest" projects.10

You wanted an analysis you got one, but chose to ignore it.

Yes it's only for $50 Billion odd, just the beginning, but recall where India was 20 years ago, and the analysis for $30 Billion then. I'm guessing you were not born then.

You have done exactly what you did in this thread, instead of attacking the poster, you have attacked the source. Typical.

The hate is strong.

 

[R3verse Swing]

Yes, they seem to "love to feed" on the fact some "native" Pakistani posters in this thread have made comments about other British Pakistani posters, (or whatever you're trying to claim here), however this whole discussion about CPEC and PSL v IPL that posters have created is just exactly what these "Trojan Trolls" want and if you just stayed to the original topic, you wouldn't have to be posting about their nonsense.

It's difficult to stay on topic when posters attack the poster, and not the post. What would be relevant is if the posters eluded to in the OP would back their claims instead of attacking the post and resorting to false stereotypes and the support of Trohen Troll Indians. For example, Mamoon. He pretty much agrees with the stereotypes advocated by his ilk in this thread, but in the next breath claims he has family in the UK. Still waiting to see if his UK family is living in a council house and are sponging off the state.

 

[English August]

That's not all I have, there's plenty more. Google yourself, do not let fear stop you.

But what is clear is so you will ignore Bloomberg and Deloitte when it comes to Pakistan but not India. Figures.

Also you have not read the report. I can vouch for this.

Pay attention



You wanted an analysis you got one, but chose to ignore it.

Yes it's only for $50 Billion odd, just the beginning, but recall where India was 20 years ago, and the analysis for $30 Billion then. I'm guessing you were not born then.

You have done exactly what you did in this thread, instead of attacking the poster, you have attacked the source. Typical.

The hate is strong.

Instead of getting emotional and using words like "hate", why don't you just focus on providing the details. Or you can say you don't have the details. It's really quite simple.

I read the full report, hence asked for more. Let me ask a few pointed questions instead of going all over the map.

The paras you quoted talk about how it will reduce distance. I can understand how that will benefit the Chinese trade. Could you point out for me in very clear terms how it will benefit Pakistan? Just answer the question, do not get emotional.

Similarly just pick one of the power projects this report talks about. Could you provide the following details for any one of the power projects:

- What's the debt / equity structure. Who underwrites the debt (which bank in Pakistan or China or elsewhere) and who owns the equity (please provide names of the agencies, don't just say "Pakistan" or "China")
- What's the capacity of the plant and when does it become operational (by phase)?
- What's the unit price of electricity at which the Pakistani electricity boards will buy power from this power plant? Please provide a real number (e.g., $2.5 per unit), not some vague answer
- In which year does the plan break even?
- Does the buyer (in this case one or more of the electricity boards in Pakistan) have the ability to re-negotiate pricing in the future or are the prices locked in?

Again, just provide the data. Don't get emotional. And if you don't have the data, just say so. I'll understand.

 

[R3verse Swing]

Instead of getting emotional and using words like "hate", why don't you just focus on providing the details. Or you can say you don't have the details. It's really quite simple.

I read the full report, hence asked for more. Let me ask a few pointed questions instead of going all over the map.

The paras you quoted talk about how it will reduce distance. I can understand how that will benefit the Chinese trade. Could you point out for me in very clear terms how it will benefit Pakistan? Just answer the question, do not get emotional.

Similarly just pick of the power projects this report talks about. Could you provide the following details for any one of the power projects:

- What's the debt / equity structure. Who underwrites the debt (which bank in Pakistan or China or elsewhere) and who owns the equity (please provide names of the agencies, don't just say "Pakistan" or "China")
- What's the capacity of the plant and when does it become operational (by phase)?
- What's the unit price of electricity at which the Pakistani electricity boards will buy power from this power plant? Please provide a real number (e.g., $2.5 per unit), not some vague answer
- In which year does the plan break even?
- Does the buyer (in this case one or more of the electricity boards in Pakistan) have the ability to re-negotiate pricing in the future or are the prices locked in?

Again, just provide the data. Don't get emotional. And if you don't have the data, just say so. I'll understand.

How many times have you used the word emotional?

Data has been provided.

READ.

The fear is strong.

 

[English August]

How many times have you used the word emotional?

Data has been provided.

READ.

The fear is strong.

I looked for unit selling price of electricity from the power plant to distribution agencies in Pakistan, didn't see it. I looked for debt / equity distribution, didn't see it.

Thank you for acknowledging that you are unable to provide any level of detail behind this so-called "project".

Well played!

 

[R3verse Swing]

I looked for unit selling price of electricity from the power plant to distribution agencies in Pakistan, didn't see it. I looked for debt / equity distribution, didn't see it.

Thank you for acknowledging that you are unable to provide any level of detail behind this so-called "project".

Well played!

Sigh.

Save the bravado. You are blatantly unwilling to read the data, as demonstrated above.

You, I, The World, and in particular India, know the data is there, if it wasn’t, Indians would not be funding terrorists in Pakistan for the purpose of derailing CPEC. Let this sink in.

Best, Bless, and good night!

 

[PakLFC]

Fact is India and its people hate to be challenged especially by Pakistanis. This is what happens when you're a superpower!!!))

 

[humzy]

While intimidating people on the street clearly is.

I would rather be intimidating then a push over and a complete joke.

Sometimes respect has to be demanded, its a part of life. Doesn't mean you go around intimidating people, but when you clearly are not getting the respect you feel you deserve then you should demand it, rather then cower.

Status is reflected in your likability, your ability to socialise. And the value you provide to a society. Wealth is just one little aspect of status. A lot of politicians get zero respect in my country specifically because they are wealthy and not likeable.

Indians stick to themselves and don't know how to socialise on a wider scale with other cultures.

They are also taken advantage of the easiest due to their meek personalities.

They do not value themselves therefore are able to work the worst jobs for the least money, which destroys industries in the west. For this reason they are not as valued in Australia. They send most of their money back home and save the rest, so they are not invested in the Australian economy.

Their status is very low. *I am talking about immigrants rather then 2nd or 3rd generation Indians*

Sri Lankans are the complete opposite end of the spectrum, they integrate well, socialise well, and have big personalities so they are able to command respect.

They also value themselves as individuals, so instead of focusing on undercutting everyone for slave labor wages and then hiring out immigrant students around them. They would rather see how they can bring value to an industry.

 

[English August]

Sigh.

Save the bravado. You are blatantly unwilling to read the data, as demonstrated above.

You, I, The World, and in particular India, know the data is there, if it wasn’t, Indians would not be funding terrorists in Pakistan for the purpose of derailing CPEC. Let this sink in.

Best, Bless, and good night!

Fine. Let's assume for the sake of discussion that I am somehow unable to find the data in the report you referenced. Why don't you humor me and just answer two questions:
- Debt / equity ratio for one of the power plants
- Contracted unit selling price

Or just tell me that you can't find the data yourselves.

Fair?

 

[cricketjoshila]

I would rather be intimidating then a push over and a complete joke.

Sometimes respect has to be demanded, its a part of life. Doesn't mean you go around intimidating people, but when you clearly are not getting the respect you feel you deserve then you should demand it, rather then cower.

Status is reflected in your likability, your ability to socialise. And the value you provide to a society. Wealth is just one little aspect of status. A lot of politicians get zero respect in my country specifically because they are wealthy and not likeable.

Indians stick to themselves and don't know how to socialise on a wider scale with other cultures.

They are also taken advantage of the easiest due to their meek personalities.

They do not value themselves therefore are able to work the worst jobs for the least money, which destroys industries in the west. For this reason they are not as valued in Australia. They send most of their money back home and save the rest, so they are not invested in the Australian economy.

Their status is very low. *I am talking about immigrants rather then 2nd or 3rd generation Indians*

Sri Lankans are the complete opposite end of the spectrum, they integrate well, socialise well, and have big personalities so they are able to command respect.

They also value themselves as individuals, so instead of focusing on undercutting everyone for slave labor wages and then hiring out immigrant students around them. They would rather see how they can bring value to an industry.

Indians integrate far better than Pakistanis do.

In most countries their financial status and hence contribution to economy by payment of taxes is far more than Pakistanis.

Trying to intimidate people on the streets get you in trouble with law, no wonder Pakistani passport is ranked one of the worst in the world. Lots of countries do extreme vetting before granting visas to Pakistanis. Go demand respect from them.

In almost every country status of Indians is far better than Pakistanis.

 

[English August]

Indians stick to themselves and don't know how to socialise on a wider scale with other cultures.

They are also taken advantage of the easiest due to their meek personalities.

They do not value themselves therefore are able to work the worst jobs for the least money, which destroys industries in the west. For this reason they are not as valued in Australia. They send most of their money back home and save the rest, so they are not invested in the Australian economy.

Their status is very low. *I am talking about immigrants rather then 2nd or 3rd generation Indians*

I have never been to Australia, so can't comment on how the Indian community integrates there. I live in the US and have spent a number of years in the UK in the past. I can assure you that pretty much everything you say above about the Indians is wrong.

Indians in the US and UK integrate very well (as per Captain Rishwat a little too well), occupy leadership position in the society and get along with the locals just fine. Most of them end-up buying houses, so your assertion that they send most of their money home is factually just plain wrong.

In other words, you don't know what you're talking about.

 

[humzy]

I have never been to Australia, so can't comment on how the Indian community integrates there. I live in the US and have spent a number of years in the UK in the past. I can assure you that pretty much everything you say above about the Indians is wrong.

Indians in the US and UK integrate very well (as per Captain Rishwat a little too well), occupy leadership position in the society and get along with the locals just fine. Most of them end-up buying houses, so your assertion that they send most of their money home is factually just plain wrong.

In other words, you don't know what you're talking about.

I cant speak for other countries to be honest. So take my views with a micro level assessment.

 

[ahsan17]

Fine. Let's assume for the sake of discussion that I am somehow unable to find the data in the report you referenced. Why don't you humor me and just answer two questions:
- Debt / equity ratio for one of the power plants
- Contracted unit selling price

Or just tell me that you can't find the data yourselves.

Fair?

The unit price depends on the plant. Most of them are cheaper than existing power plants. There are power plants being created from all sorts of energy sources - nuclear, coal, hydro, wind, solar, etc. In addition to power, we're talking about several thousand km of motorways. A proper motorway system similar to the interstates. A completely rehabilitated railway system.

But look, no one is going to do this research for you. It takes time and we're not working on a university thesis. You have to either do the research yourself or stop talking nonsense. CPEC is too big and complex a project and all you are doing is making overly simplistic statements.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

You're just annoyed by the fact that you're finding yourselves trying to defend the British Pakistanis. Probably it's not very easy to do given their reputation hence the annoyance.

For all those who're talking about this thread getting derailed, I have a question for you: why feed the trolls / spinmeisters and why not stick to the subject the OP started off with? Do people disagree with the assertion that IPL > PSL and CPEC is bad for Pakistan in the long run?

There's nothing to defend about British Pakistanis in this case, they don't live in council estates so there's nothing to be annoyed about by pointing it out. As for the OP, it wasn't about those individual subjects which were used as examples, the gist of the topic was why are some posters hyper-critical of Pakistan but don't see any positives at all. It's a fair enough question, and those who feel they have every right to be hyper critical are welcome to reply.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I have never been to Australia, so can't comment on how the Indian community integrates there. I live in the US and have spent a number of years in the UK in the past. I can assure you that pretty much everything you say above about the Indians is wrong.

Indians in the US and UK integrate very well (as per Captain Rishwat a little too well), occupy leadership position in the society and get along with the locals just fine. Most of them end-up buying houses, so your assertion that they send most of their money home is factually just plain wrong.

In other words, you don't know what you're talking about.

British Indians are about as visible in the UK as they are on PakPassion. Not that much in other words. They do integrate better than Pakistanis in that they will usually keep a low profile as far as being Indian is concerned, although that is only in areas where they are a minority. There are whole areas of London which look like Mumbai as well. British people like Indians better precisely because they are seen as meek and willing to downgrade their own culture and raise the British way of life high. Pakistanis are often seen as more combative, but in reality they are generally just trying to fit in but with the confines of their religion and culture from Pakistan which can sometimes create a clash. I don't have any problems admitting where we could do better, but the good news is that Britain can usually accommodate different cultures as long as they respect British laws, which we British Pakistanis do for the most part.

 

[English August]

The unit price depends on the plant. Most of them are cheaper than existing power plants. There are power plants being created from all sorts of energy sources - nuclear, coal, hydro, wind, solar, etc. In addition to power, we're talking about several thousand km of motorways. A proper motorway system similar to the interstates. A completely rehabilitated railway system.

But look, no one is going to do this research for you. It takes time and we're not working on a university thesis. You have to either do the research yourself or stop talking nonsense. CPEC is too big and complex a project and all you are doing is making overly simplistic statements.

Got it, so you're unable to provide two simple data points for just one of the power plants? (I didn't ask for all, just pick one.) That's perfectly understandable, it's difficult to make up hard facts, easy to talk in platitudes / generalizations like "it will help Pakistan".

All you guys have been able to do so far is provide a 5-page Deloitte report for a $56B project and accusing me of making simplistic statements!

As a parallel example, when India screwed up its Enron power project about 20 years ago (there were accusations of corruption on both sides) -- each and every detail was discussed openly in the media. I'm only asking for less than 5% of that.

But hey, if it's not there, it's not there.

 

[KingKhanWC]

PSL is poor and IPL is way way way better. FACT.

CPEC is daylight robbery of Pakistan by China. It's East India Company all over again. FACT.

Pakistani army is corrupt and incompetent. FACT.

Mullah culture and madrassas are responsible for the current mess Pakistan finds itself in. FACT.

Kashmir is not Pakistan's problem. It's an integral part of India, and Pak won't get an inch (they have lost 4 wars trying to change the status and got a bloody nose every time). FACT.

So what exactly are you crying about? You should give credit to a few Pakistanis who see the reality and have the courage to acknowledge it.

PSL is better if you're a Pakistani cricket fan. Only a foolish Pak fan would prefer IPL with no Pak players.

As an Indian you're a just bitter regarding CPEC, expected.

Pak army has given thousands of lives to protect the nation against state sponsored terrorism.

Hindu extremists are in power in India. Orange Pandit extremists run Mumbai. Pak has never elected a religous party.

Kashmir is disputed territory, the majority want nothing to do with India and are resisting Indian forces .

 

[ahsan17]

Got it, so you're unable to provide two simple data points for just one of the power plants? (I didn't ask for all, just pick one.) That's perfectly understandable, it's difficult to make up hard facts, easy to talk in platitudes / generalizations like "it will help Pakistan".

All you guys have been able to do so far is provide a 5-page Deloitte report for a $56B project and accusing me of making simplistic statements!

As a parallel example, when India screwed up its Enron power project about 20 years ago (there were accusations of corruption on both sides) -- each and every detail was discussed openly in the media. I'm only asking for less than 5% of that.

But hey, if it's not there, it's not there.

I just explained it to you that the project is more complex than your overly simplistic statements, but you still went ahead and did that again - try to reduce it to 1 or 2 data points. Are you unable to think beyond the simple? If you want those 1 or 2 data points, why don't you go and find it yourself. I am not going to entertain such nonsense because as mentioned the project is far more complex than reducing it to 1 or 2 data points. Why would you even want the data for one power plant anyway? We are talking several dozen power plants here. And it's more than power plants. Why won't you talk about motorways, railways?

We're not just talking about Deloitte btw. Moodys, Bloomberg, etc are all predicting high growth rates due to CPEC. Literally the only sceptical people are the bharatis and some Pakistanis like the ones that are mentioned in the OP.

 

[Mercurial]

But currently, the negatives outweighs the positives, unfortunately, which is a bitter truth.

 

[WC-Passion]

It's difficult to stay on topic when posters attack the poster, and not the post. What would be relevant is if the posters eluded to in the OP would back their claims instead of attacking the post and resorting to false stereotypes and the support of Trohen Troll Indians. For example, Mamoon. He pretty much agrees with the stereotypes advocated by his ilk in this thread, but in the next breath claims he has family in the UK. Still waiting to see if his UK family is living in a council house and are sponging off the state.

Have a feeling that Mamoon is basically trying to defend Slog because he generally enjoys what he posts, rather than actually believing in what he said, it would make no sense for him to say he loves the UK and has UK family otherwise. Trolls have nothing better to do than resort to personal attacks, so that's to be expected. It's better not to engage with them.

 

[R3verse Swing]

Have a feeling that Mamoon is basically trying to defend Slog because he generally enjoys what he posts, rather than actually believing in what he said, it would make no sense for him to say he loves the UK and has UK family otherwise. Trolls have nothing better to do than resort to personal attacks, so that's to be expected. It's better not to engage with them.

Agree, [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] has not confirmed if his family in the UK fit the stereotype which he agrees upon.

You are right however, should not engage with such folk, but exposing such folk is far more fun!

 

[Bhaijaan]

Pakistan is a beautiful country and its people are on average far better than average Indians. Their beautiful country has been destroyed by their leaders apart from of course the illiteracy and poverty of its own people. Indiians are on average have much smaller hearts than Pakistanis, are more racist and hateful but their politicians have not been able to fool their nation like the ones in Pakistan were able to with. Indians were able to keep the evil of their politicians in check by using their democratic right to vote. With each government put to test in 5 years, they ended up doing some good too apart from looting the nation's wealth.

Look at the education institutes, the medical facilities, the infrastructure Pakistan is a village compared to India in that sense which is a shame because India itself is a village to even 2nd world nations.

Today you look at the industrialists in India. They re rich and powerful. They have global presence. All that because in India the governments looted too but they let the private sector flourish alongside instead of competing with it. To think of the commercial ventures of Pakistan army and its politicians it just makes me sick and question why the people of Pakistanis have been so foolish in letting all that happen to them.

 

[WC-Passion]

Agree, [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] has not confirmed if his family in the UK fit the stereotype which he agrees upon.

You are right however, should not engage with such folk, but exposing such folk is far more fun!

True, but most of the time they'll just go back into their caves for a bit and comeback out when such topics are discussed again.

 

[Romali_rotti]

I honestly feel if Pakistanis in Pakistan thought like the Brit Pakistanis, Pakistan today would be a 1st world country

 

[Romali_rotti]

I have never been to Australia, so can't comment on how the Indian community integrates there. I live in the US and have spent a number of years in the UK in the past. I can assure you that pretty much everything you say above about the Indians is wrong.

Indians in the US and UK integrate very well (as per Captain Rishwat a little too well), occupy leadership position in the society and get along with the locals just fine. Most of them end-up buying houses, so your assertion that they send most of their money home is factually just plain wrong.

In other words, you don't know what you're talking about.

Coming from an Indian who has been living in Aus for the last few decades, I will say that Indians tend to stick to themselves, the ones that migrate from India that is. They do whatever jobs they can get an to make enough money to support themselves and if they become permanent resident and cant find corporate or other jobs of their preference they will do whatever they have to make money.

However what separates the Indians from the Pakistani community is; while although the Aus Pakistanis are not as backwards as some of the UK Pakistanis, The Indians mind their business and go on with their lives, they don't have this defender of their religion mentality which makes the Pakistanis overseas look real bad.... I have been to the UK a few times, a came away shaking my head seeing some of the Pakistani ppl's antics, thinking they are lost causes because they are so fixated on their religion and working extra hard to go backwards.....

 

[English August]

I just explained it to you that the project is more complex than your overly simplistic statements, but you still went ahead and did that again - try to reduce it to 1 or 2 data points. Are you unable to think beyond the simple? If you want those 1 or 2 data points, why don't you go and find it yourself. I am not going to entertain such nonsense because as mentioned the project is far more complex than reducing it to 1 or 2 data points. Why would you even want the data for one power plant anyway? We are talking several dozen power plants here. And it's more than power plants. Why won't you talk about motorways, railways?

We're not just talking about Deloitte btw. Moodys, Bloomberg, etc are all predicting high growth rates due to CPEC. Literally the only sceptical people are the bharatis and some Pakistanis like the ones that are mentioned in the OP.

I'm not reducing it to 1-2 data points. I asked for 1-2 data points only because the other poster provided a completely useless Deloitte reports with colorful maps / picture but no real information. And refused to provide any meaningful data. You're welcome to provide 100 data points if you have them. I'd be happy to go find them myself if I could. I can't because it doesn't exist.

You keep contradicting yourselves. You can't provide data for one power plant, and you're talking about dozens of them! Why don't we start with one, and we'll get to the other in good time. If you have data for dozens of power plant, you're welcome to provide it. You won't because it doesn't exist.

Basically these things exist only in the figment of your imagination. Unfortunately google's search engine isn't powerful enough to search there. You're welcome to blame google, it's after all run by an Indian, so they gobbled up all the fancy data showing how these power plants will provide milk and honey to all of Pakistan and China!

 

[Mamoon]

Agree, [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] has not confirmed if his family in the UK fit the stereotype which he agrees upon.

You are right however, should not engage with such folk, but exposing such folk is far more fun!

You will avoid embarrassing yourself if you read posts thoroughly or perhaps if you improve your reading skills, which have been found wanting on numerous occasions now in numerous threads.

Your question was answered and your confusion was cleared eight days ago.

I think the fact that you are replying to people who have approved what Slog said, suggests that it is you who feels stung by what he (Slog) said. I agree with the gist of his post, not necessarily every word. There are many British Pakistanis in my family and they do not live in council estates.

Nonetheless, what he said applies not only to British Pakistanis but also to North American Pakistanis. For some reason, people who were not born and brought up in Pakistan and have barely spent any substantial amount of time in the country tend to think that they know the country better than the people who have spent most of their lives in Pakistan.

Other than doing the "ehsan" of sending money to Pakistan (without which the country would become Greece of course), overseas Pakistanis have no contribution to the Pakistani society and have no stake in what happens in the country. In other words, they never were and never will be part of the system.

It appears that Slog has ruffled a few feathers by singling out British Pakistanis. I imagine that had he generalized all expats without mentioning British Pakistanis specifically, the reaction would not have been so strong.

I have made it easy for you by putting it in bold.

As I said earlier, Slog caused unnecessary offense by singling out British Pakistanis, because what he said applies to all expats and not just the ones living in the UK. There was no need of ruffling British Pakistani feathers in particular.

It is funny to see overseas Pakistanis - who were not born and brought in Pakistan or have not spent any substantial amount of time in the country in years - take the moral high ground and question the people who have seen the best and the worst the country has to offer.

It is very easy to call them pessimistic and self-haters when you do not have a stake in the country, other than sending money without which the economy would of course collapse. People like you and the OP do not love the country more than us; you are simply ignorant of the ground realities.
[MENTION=138836]WC-Passion[/MENTION]

I hope this should answer any reservations that you might have.

 

[R3verse Swing]

You will avoid embarrassing yourself if you read posts thoroughly or perhaps if you improve your reading skills, which have been found wanting on numerous occasions now in numerous threads.

No, read what I asked, Council houses AND sponging off the state.

Forget about Slog, he lives in Pakistan and supports Man U. Sums him up.

 

[R3verse Swing]

It is funny to see overseas Pakistanis - who were not born and brought in Pakistan or have not spent any substantial amount of time in the country in years - take the moral high ground and question the people who have seen the best and the worst the country has to offer.

It is very easy to call them pessimistic and self-haters when you do not have a stake in the country, other than sending money without which the economy would of course collapse. People like you and the OP do not love the country more than us; you are simply ignorant of the ground realities.
.

So many assumptions. Not the sign of a Doctor, but more a sign of one who resents Pakistanis living abroad because his VISA was denied. The irony being he is posting on a UK Pakistani forum.

Oh well.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Coming from an Indian who has been living in Aus for the last few decades, I will say that Indians tend to stick to themselves, the ones that migrate from India that is. They do whatever jobs they can get an to make enough money to support themselves and if they become permanent resident and cant find corporate or other jobs of their preference they will do whatever they have to make money.

However what separates the Indians from the Pakistani community is; while although the Aus Pakistanis are not as backwards as some of the UK Pakistanis, The Indians mind their business and go on with their lives, they don't have this defender of their religion mentality which makes the Pakistanis overseas look real bad.... I have been to the UK a few times, a came away shaking my head seeing some of the Pakistani ppl's antics, thinking they are lost causes because they are so fixated on their religion and working extra hard to go backwards.....

and yet here you are....

 

[CricketCartoons]

and yet here you are....

He meant most of the Indians..as only a handful of indians visit Pakistani sites.. I mean, I only come to check india related cricket news.

 

[barah_admi]

There seems to be certain Pakistanis' who only criticise/hate on their nation but hardly ever say anything postive.

Some examples.

PSL is poor, IPL is best. Sure IPL has more stars but a Pakistani should be proud of the PSL. It's a very good standard and we fans get to see more Pakistani cricket. A lot of hard work has been done to make this league successful and to help return cricket to Pakistan.

CPEC - Its a robbery by China etc. Pakistani can criticise certain elements but surely they should be happy and give praise for such a huge development in the country which will bring jobs etc.

Army are all corrupt, ruined the nation etc. Sure the army isn't perfect and has made small & big mistakes but the army consists mainly of soldiers who have layed down their lives to protect the people of the land.

Religion, Pakistan should be secular. Sure there are extremists but this exists in every society. The majority of Pakistani's are Muslims, they want Pakistan to be a Muslim nation and they are happy with laws which are based on morals related to their religion. Criticise but to always look down on the Islam in Pakistan is just hate.

Kashmir - Some beilieve IOK Kashmiri's are not their problem. Sure but where is the humanity of such Pakistanis who cant criticise the crimes of the Indian state.


I dont understand where this mentailty comes from? Do they wish they were born as some other nationality?

I'm glad someone else noticed. This site is polluted with them...who in all honesty are mostly Indian posters with Pak flags.Its the mods job to weed them out.

But Im sure a few are genuine self loathing Pakistanis. I guess they could relocate to India.

 

[Mamoon]

So many assumptions. Not the sign of a Doctor, but more a sign of one who resents Pakistanis living abroad because his VISA was denied. The irony being he is posting on a UK Pakistani forum.

Oh well.

I have had a UK visa since I was a baby and I have had multiple Schengen visas as well. I have been in the U.S. since 2016 and will be here for another year before heading back home.

Thankfully I have never been denied a visa so far. To be fair, the issue of not getting visas is overblown. Unless there is something fishy about you or your records, you will get a visa to UK, U.S., Canada, Australia, Schengen etc. 8/10 times.

Also, these are not assumptions; these are based on what I have experienced in real life as well as in my time on this forum.

Nonetheless, you seem peculiarly obsessed with my profession. I hope you are not a med school dropout or were not able to get into the med school of your choice.

Finally, this is a not a UK Pakistani forum. It was created by a British Pakistani, but it is open to all Pakistanis around the world. It is PakPassion, not UKPakPassion.

 

[R3verse Swing]

I have had a UK visa since I was a baby and I have had multiple Schengen visas as well. I have been in the U.S. since 2016 and will be here for another year before heading back home.

Thankfully I have never been denied a visa so far. To be fair, the issue of not getting visas is overblown. Unless there is something fishy about you or your records, you will get a visa to UK, U.S., Canada, Australia, Schengen etc. 8/10 times.

Also, these are not assumptions; these are based on what I have experienced in real life as well as in my time on this forum.

Nonetheless, you seem peculiarly obsessed with my profession. I hope you are not a med school dropout or were not able to get into the med school of your choice.

Finally, this is a not a UK Pakistani forum. It was created by a British Pakistani, but it is open to all Pakistanis around the world. It is PakPassion, not UKPakPassion.

You have not answered my question. Last time, are your family in the UK sponging off the state?

Don’t tell me about Schengen, UK is not part of Schengen. Do not need to read your life time story, just wondering if your family in the UK fit the stereotype you agree with.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

He meant most of the Indians..as only a handful of indians visit Pakistani sites.. I mean, I only come to check india related cricket news.

You guys are always welcome, you should know by now, no one loves India more than I. No one has fought harder to resurrect the BJP dream of Akhand Bharat, or the dismantling of the fence dividing once glorious Bengal.

But for some reason some posters want to discuss British Pakistanis in disparaging terms, referring to council houses and sponging off benefits, but when pointed out that those residents are usually whites or blacks, then the inferiority complex kicks in and they go silent. Maybe I should start a thread on council house unemployed Brits and see if they come out of their hidey holes.

 

[Mamoon]

You have not answered my question. Last time, are your family in the UK sponging off the state?

Don’t tell me about Schengen, UK is not part of Schengen. Do not need to read your life time story, just wondering if your family in the UK fit the stereotype you agree with.

You clearly have made little progress when it comes to comprehending basic English. As I have stated numerous times, I go to the UK regularly because of my family. I am not hating on British Pakistanis because I have a problem with the UK or because I was rejected a visa.

As I said earlier, I do not agree with Slog as far as his British Pakistani stereotype is concerned. A lot of British Pakistanis are very successful, and I have two uncles and two cousins in the UK who are all doctors as well. We are largely a family of doctors, with a few exceptions. None of them are burdens on the Queen and her majesty.

South Asian doctors are integral to the NHS and there are successful South Asian/Pakistanis in other fields as well. All that is fine and I have no issues with that, as long as the said people do not pretend that they know more - or care more - about Pakistan than the people who were born and brought up in Pakistan and have no intentions of living abroad in the long haul.

 

[KingKhanWC]

I'm glad someone else noticed. This site is polluted with them...who in all honesty are mostly Indian posters with Pak flags.Its the mods job to weed them out.

But Im sure a few are genuine self loathing Pakistanis. I guess they could relocate to India.

You could be right, they just could be Indians pandering as Pakistani's, there are nearly 1.5 billion of them!

But there are a section of Pakistani's who speak , write English, their parents drive a newish Toyota, they watch English films and maybe do the odd painting who think they are superiour to other Pakistanis. I guess for them to criticise Pakistan all the time and bring love towards say India makes them feel they are more civilised. In my honest opinion, they are insecure, looking for attention and dont go out much. [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION]

 

[R3verse Swing]

You clearly have made little progress when it comes to comprehending basic English. As I have stated numerous times, I go to the UK regularly because of my family. I am not hating on British Pakistanis because I have a problem with the UK or because I was rejected a visa.

As I said earlier, I do not agree with Slog as far as his British Pakistani stereotype is concerned. A lot of British Pakistanis are very successful, and I have two uncles and two cousins in the UK who are all doctors as well. We are largely a family of doctors, with a few exceptions. None of them are burdens on the Queen and her majesty.

South Asian doctors are integral to the NHS and there are successful South Asian/Pakistanis in other fields as well. All that is fine and I have no issues with that, as long as the said people do not pretend that they know more - or care more - about Pakistan than the people who were born and brought up in Pakistan and have no intentions of living abroad in the long haul.

Of course, now you do not agree with Slog, there’s a surprise, even though post 31 says otherwise.

Back-pedalling King, or Queen should I say?

By the way, it's not "Queen and her majesty", it is "Majesty her Queen".

 

[KingKhanWC]

and yet here you are....

I've never undertood why so many Indians who have disdian for Pakistan and Pakistani's spend so much time talking to them on internet forums . I personally have never visited any Indian forum, ever.

 

[R3verse Swing]

I've never undertood why so many Indians who have disdian for Pakistan and Pakistani's spend so much time talking to them on internet forums . I personally have never visited any Indian forum, ever.

This.

It's called Compensation psychology.

If people dislike Pakistan, in particular, British Pakistanis, then why are they posting on a Pakistani forum run by British Pakistanis?

 

[barah_admi]

You could be right, they just could be Indians pandering as Pakistani's, there are nearly 1.5 billion of them!

But there are a section of Pakistani's who speak , write English, their parents drive a newish Toyota, they watch English films and maybe do the odd painting who think they are superiour to other Pakistanis. I guess for them to criticise Pakistan all the time and bring love towards say India makes them feel they are more civilised. In my honest opinion, they are insecure, looking for attention and dont go out much. [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION]

haha exactly! It is sad that more action isnt taken on this forum as every thread deteriorates into anti Pak rubbish on a PAKISTAN cricket forum.

I've never undertood why so many Indians who have disdian for Pakistan and Pakistani's spend so much time talking to them on internet forums . I personally have never visited any Indian forum, ever.

I was on an Indian cricket forum a while back, it had a couple of Pakistanis but mainly just indians discussing Indian cricket. Although it was funny seeing the similarities. They are often just as negative about their cricket as some are on here, although its on a far bigger scale on here.

 

[barah_admi]

This.

It's called Compensation psychology.

If people dislike Pakistan, in particular, British Pakistanis, then why are they posting on a Pakistani forum run by British Pakistanis?

This is run by Brit Pakistanis?

 

[Mamoon]

Of course, now you do not agree with Slog, there’s a surprise, even though post 31 says otherwise.

Back-pedalling King, or Queen should I say?

By the way, it's not "Queen and her majesty", it is "Majesty her Queen".

#31 was made by a British Pakistani. #34 and #37 are my posts.

#34: I commended Slog for killing the thread with disdain.

#37: I had to explain my take on Slog's post after Cpt. Rishwat assumed that I am agreeing with Slog to the last word.

As I stated earlier, I agree with the gist of his post but not every word of what he said. I disagreed with his generalization of British Pakistanis back then and I still do.

I have not back-tracked or back-pedalled; my take on this thread has been consistent throughout. I agree with him over the ignorance of expat Pakistanis and why they are not in a position to take a moral high ground, but I disagree with over his statement of British Pakistanis living in council estates.

The only reason why this thread has dragged is because of your inability to comprehend and read properly. Everything needs to be spelled out to you multiple times, even though things are crystal clear if you read the posts thoroughly.

I know what the official title is, but I wrote what I wrote because it flowed better with the sentence. However, we can be pedantic if you wish and point out the flaws in grammar and vocabulary. However, I would only go as far as suggesting that it would be great if you start reading posts carefully because it will save both us time and prevent the discussion from dragging out.

The problem is that you start thinking of what to reply before you read what someone else has to say. It has happened multiple times not only in this thread but also in the pork one. I had to repeat myself multiple times in order to make a point, simply because you are and were unwilling to read a post word by word on the first go.

 

[R3verse Swing]

#31 was made by a British Pakistani. #34 and #37 are my posts.

#34: I commended Slog for killing the thread with disdain.

#37: I had to explain my take on Slog's post after Cpt. Rishwat assumed that I am agreeing with Slog to the last word.

As I stated earlier, I agree with the gist of his post but not every word of what he said. I disagreed with his generalization of British Pakistanis back then and I still do.

I have not back-tracked or back-pedalled; my take on this thread has been consistent throughout. I agree with him over the ignorance of expat Pakistanis and why they are not in a position to take a moral high ground, but I disagree with over his statement of British Pakistanis living in council estates.

The only reason why this thread has dragged is because of your inability to comprehend and read properly. Everything needs to be spelled out to you multiple times, even though things are crystal clear if you read the posts thoroughly.

I know what the official title is, but I wrote what I wrote because it flowed better with the sentence. However, we can be pedantic if you wish and point out the flaws in grammar and vocabulary. However, I would only go as far as suggesting that it would be great if you start reading posts carefully because it will save both us time and prevent the discussion from dragging out.

The problem is that you start thinking of what to reply before you read what someone else has to say. It has happened multiple times not only in this thread but also in the pork one. I had to repeat myself multiple times in order to make a point, simply because you are and were unwilling to read a post word by word on the first go.

OK, yes, I meant post 34. The fact doesn't change you agreed with him.

You sure ramble on for no reason. No need, really. As they say, to hide one lie you have to speak another 100.

What makes me wonder is if you have family in the UK and USA who are Doctors - if we are to believe you that is - yet you choose to be a Doctor in Pakistan, but degrade and insult Pakistan at every opportunity. No one who wishes to look after patients in Pakistan would do such a thing. Just fess up, you were denied a VISA because it's easy as pie to buy fake degrees - and UK ECO spotted this!

The fact you have now resorted to grammar and spelling tells me everything, tell me, do you post in MS Word, before you post on PP?

 

[Mamoon]

OK, yes, I meant post 34. The fact doesn't change you agreed with him.

You sure ramble on for no reason. No need, really. As they say, to hide one lie you have to speak another 100.

What makes me wonder is if you have family in the UK and USA who are Doctors - if we are to believe you that is - yet you choose to be a Doctor in Pakistan, but degrade and insult Pakistan at every opportunity. No one who wishes to look after patients in Pakistan would do such a thing. Just fess up, you were denied a VISA because it's easy as pie to buy fake degrees - and UK ECO spotted this!

The fact you have now resorted to grammar and spelling tells me everything, tell me, do you post in MS Word, before you post on PP?

I choose to be a doctor in Pakistan because my parents live in Pakistan. My brother is established in the U.S. and is difficult for him to come back because of the nature of his job, so it is my responsibility to take care of my parents in their old age.

It is a sacrifice that I am willing to make, and although the salaries are incomparable in the West compared to what I got and will get in Pakistan, I do not have any financial problems. I am not proving my patriotism by opting to stay in Pakistan; I am doing so because of the situation of my family.

I decided to do my post-grad from the U.S. because foreign qualified doctors get higher salaries than local qualified doctors in Pakistan. If I am living in Pakistan, why not maximize my earning potential. The UK does not have to bother by denying me a visa because of assuming that my degree is fake.

With all due respect, a medical degree from the UK is not worth more than a toilet roll compared to a degree from the U.S. If the U.S. were willing to acknowledge my "fake" degree, I could not care less about the UK.

I do not degrade or insult Pakistan at every opportunity. I consider myself a realist and I do not like false hopes and delusions. What Pakistan is there for everyone to see - denial will not change anything.

It is a third world country infested with extremism, intolerance and political instability, a country where the Army is the most corrupt institution and holds too much power. A country that has a poor image in the media and rightly so.

However, in spite of all the problems, it is still home and that is where my roots lie. My father did not move to the UK like his other family members because he worked for the government, which is why today I am a Pakistani and not a British Pakistani.

I do not want to be pedantic, I was simply taking a leaf out of your book. I do not type on MS Word, it is called being educated and articulate.

That is all.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I've never undertood why so many Indians who have disdian for Pakistan and Pakistani's spend so much time talking to them on internet forums . I personally have never visited any Indian forum, ever.

It's obviously an unhealthy obsession, but really there was no need for them to enter this thread, it was ostensibly a thread about Pakistanis who are overly negative about their country, then Slog Varun-friend chimed in about British Pakistanis, and suddenly the Indians all waded in.

It's an interesting phenomenon even if off topic. Clearly Indians see British Pakistanis as a problem because we won't bad mouth Pakistan incessantly, and thus the (hostile) Indians and Pakistan white flag brigade are on the same page. Which is fair enough, they agree on almost everything, so why not? They both hate the same country for a start.

 

[KingKhanWC]

I choose to be a doctor in Pakistan because my parents live in Pakistan. My brother is established in the U.S. and is difficult for him to come back because of the nature of his job, so it is my responsibility to take care of my parents in their old age.

It is a sacrifice that I am willing to make, and although the salaries are incomparable in the West compared to what I got and will get in Pakistan, I do not have any financial problems. I am not proving my patriotism by opting to stay in Pakistan; I am doing so because of the situation of my family.

I decided to do my post-grad from the U.S. because foreign qualified doctors get higher salaries than local qualified doctors in Pakistan. If I am living in Pakistan, why not maximize my earning potential. The UK does not have to bother by denying me a visa because of assuming that my degree is fake.

With all due respect, a medical degree from the UK is not worth more than a toilet roll compared to a degree from the U.S. If the U.S. were willing to acknowledge my "fake" degree, I could not care less about the UK.

I do not degrade or insult Pakistan at every opportunity. I consider myself a realist and I do not like false hopes and delusions. What Pakistan is there for everyone to see - denial will not change anything.

It is a third world country infested with extremism, intolerance and political instability, a country where the Army is the most corrupt institution and holds too much power. A country that has a poor image in the media and rightly so.

However, in spite of all the problems, it is still home and that is where my roots lie. My father did not move to the UK like his other family members because he worked for the government, which is why today I am a Pakistani and not a British Pakistani.

I do not want to be pedantic, I was simply taking a leaf out of your book. I do not type on MS Word, it is called being educated and articulate.

That is all.

Can you please list the postivies of Pakistan?

And since you show a lot of love for India, please list the negatives of India.

 

[KingKhanWC]

It's obviously an unhealthy obsession, but really there was no need for them to enter this thread, it was ostensibly a thread about Pakistanis who are overly negative about their country, then Slog Varun-friend chimed in about British Pakistanis, and suddenly the Indians all waded in.

It's an interesting phenomenon even if off topic. Clearly Indians see British Pakistanis as a problem because we won't bad mouth Pakistan incessantly, and thus the (hostile) Indians and Pakistan white flag brigade are on the same page. Which is fair enough, they agree on almost everything, so why not? They both hate the same country for a start.

It is a very interseting phenomenon on the www. Since it's mostly 'educated' and reasonably well of Pakistani's from Pakistan who post here, they want to show they are more cilivilsed than the average Jamil in Pakistan as they will say good things about India/Indian cricket etc. In Britain we dont have the issue, we interact with mulitple ethnicities on a regular basis and we have a culture of speaking our mind in the UK ,which doesn't sit will with some Indians.

 

[Mamoon]

Can you please list the postivies of Pakistan?

And since you show a lot of love for India, please list the negatives of India.

To be honest, I cannot think of any positives of Pakistan at this point, but there are plenty of negatives as far as India is concerned. The fact that they elected Modi shows the direction their country is heading in. Intolerance and Hindu nationalism is certainly on the rise.

Moreover, the population explosion and the resulting poverty are major problems that they have not been able to tackle so far. However, it is a growing economy and the future looks very bright for them. They are certainly a much, much better country than Pakistan in almost every aspect.

A lot of problems that India has are prevalent in Pakistan as well, but we can take pride in the fact that we are yet to elect a terrorist as the PM. Perhaps this is a positive for Pakistan?

 

[R3verse Swing]

I choose to be a doctor in Pakistan because my parents live in Pakistan. My brother is established in the U.S. and is difficult for him to come back because of the nature of his job, so it is my responsibility to take care of my parents in their old age.

It is a sacrifice that I am willing to make, and although the salaries are incomparable in the West compared to what I got and will get in Pakistan, I do not have any financial problems. I am not proving my patriotism by opting to stay in Pakistan; I am doing so because of the situation of my family.

I decided to do my post-grad from the U.S. because foreign qualified doctors get higher salaries than local qualified doctors in Pakistan. If I am living in Pakistan, why not maximize my earning potential. The UK does not have to bother by denying me a visa because of assuming that my degree is fake.

With all due respect, a medical degree from the UK is not worth more than a toilet roll compared to a degree from the U.S. If the U.S. were willing to acknowledge my "fake" degree, I could not care less about the UK.

I do not degrade or insult Pakistan at every opportunity. I consider myself a realist and I do not like false hopes and delusions. What Pakistan is there for everyone to see - denial will not change anything.

It is a third world country infested with extremism, intolerance and political instability, a country where the Army is the most corrupt institution and holds too much power. A country that has a poor image in the media and rightly so.

However, in spite of all the problems, it is still home and that is where my roots lie. My father did not move to the UK like his other family members because he worked for the government, which is why today I am a Pakistani and not a British Pakistani.

I do not want to be pedantic, I was simply taking a leaf out of your book. I do not type on MS Word, it is called being educated and articulate.

That is all.

On one hand you claim you did your post-grad from the U.S. because foreign qualified doctors get higher salaries than local qualified doctors in Pakistan, in the next breath you decided to stay in Pakistan. Why so much love for Pakistan big guy? Clearly not for money!

Even realists praise Pakistan albeit via constructive criticism. You on the other hand degrade Pakistan, and praise India at EVERY juncture.

Plus Doctors never assume otherwise diagnosis would be disingenuous.

You got busted in this thread. First you berate British Pakistanis, agree with the sterotype, and then come out with the spaghetti of a reply above.

 

[R3verse Swing]

Can you please list the postivies of Pakistan?

And since you show a lot of love for India, please list the negatives of India.

Even a dungar doctor knows how a country winning a tournament is a moral tonic for the nation, but no, Mamoon must be the first doctor in the world to suggest laughter and happiness are not the greatest of medicines or feel good factors.

 

[WC-Passion]

You will avoid embarrassing yourself if you read posts thoroughly or perhaps if you improve your reading skills, which have been found wanting on numerous occasions now in numerous threads.

Your question was answered and your confusion was cleared eight days ago.



I have made it easy for you by putting it in bold.

As I said earlier, Slog caused unnecessary offense by singling out British Pakistanis, because what he said applies to all expats and not just the ones living in the UK. There was no need of ruffling British Pakistani feathers in particular.

It is funny to see overseas Pakistanis - who were not born and brought in Pakistan or have not spent any substantial amount of time in the country in years - take the moral high ground and question the people who have seen the best and the worst the country has to offer.

It is very easy to call them pessimistic and self-haters when you do not have a stake in the country, other than sending money without which the economy would of course collapse. People like you and the OP do not love the country more than us; you are simply ignorant of the ground realities.

[MENTION=138836]WC-Passion[/MENTION]

I hope this should answer any reservations that you might have.

I'm not sure if this part is aimed at me or not, but if it is, there is no moral high ground. I was just saying that don't say factually incorrect nonsense if you're going to throw shade a particular group, just because it fits your narrative. Whether or not your family lives in council houses or not, is irrelevant to what Slog has said, which is why I feel like it was more so you defending him for the sake of him arguing for "native Pakistanis", rather than actually believing in what he said.

 

[Mamoon]

On one hand you claim you did your post-grad from the U.S. because foreign qualified doctors get higher salaries than local qualified doctors in Pakistan, in the next breath you decided to stay in Pakistan. Why so much love for Pakistan big guy? Clearly not for money!

Even realists praise Pakistan albeit via constructive criticism. You on the other hand degrade Pakistan, and praise India at EVERY juncture.

Plus Doctors never assume otherwise diagnosis would be disingenuous.

You got busted in this thread. First you berate British Pakistanis, agree with the sterotype, and then come out with the spaghetti of a reply above.

Oh dear, your inability to read basic English has failed you again.

U.S. qualified doctors get higher paid jobs IN Pakistan compared to Pakistani qualified doctors. Getting a degree from the U.S. has maximized my earning potential IN Pakistan.

I decided to stay in Pakistan because of my family situation, and since I am going to be work in Pakistan for pretty much my whole career, why not maximize my earning potential?

I never agreed with the stereotype. I am afraid you are somewhat dyslexic.

 

[Mamoon]

I'm not sure if this part is aimed at me or not, but if it is, there is no moral high ground. I was just saying that don't say factually incorrect nonsense if you're going to throw shade a particular group, just because it fits your narrative. Whether or not your family lives in council houses or not, is irrelevant to what Slog has said, which is why I feel like it was more so you defending him for the sake of him arguing for "native Pakistanis", rather than actually believing in what he said.

It was not aimed at you. I am simply wanted to clear the confusion caused by our dyslexic friend.

 

[Mamoon]

Even a dungar doctor knows how a country winning a tournament is a moral tonic for the nation, but no, Mamoon must be the first doctor in the world to suggest laughter and happiness are not the greatest of medicines or feel good factors.

Maybe it is for delusional people like you, but laughter and winning World Cups does not change the reality. In the grand scheme of things, cricket is irrelevant. Pakistan's social and economic problems will not go away by winning games of cricket.

Will cricket end terrorism in Pakistan? No

Will cricket improve the state of minorities? No

Will cricket eradicate poverty? No

Will cricket make the Army less corrupt? No

Will cricket make the government more stable? No

Winning in sport is just temporary joy and happiness. Ask the common man in Pakistan about the worth of winning the Champions Trophy when he was not able to put food on table for his family the next day.

 

[WC-Passion]

I choose to be a doctor in Pakistan because my parents live in Pakistan. My brother is established in the U.S. and is difficult for him to come back because of the nature of his job, so it is my responsibility to take care of my parents in their old age.

It is a sacrifice that I am willing to make, and although the salaries are incomparable in the West compared to what I got and will get in Pakistan, I do not have any financial problems. I am not proving my patriotism by opting to stay in Pakistan; I am doing so because of the situation of my family.

I decided to do my post-grad from the U.S. because foreign qualified doctors get higher salaries than local qualified doctors in Pakistan. If I am living in Pakistan, why not maximize my earning potential. The UK does not have to bother by denying me a visa because of assuming that my degree is fake.

With all due respect, a medical degree from the UK is not worth more than a toilet roll compared to a degree from the U.S. If the U.S. were willing to acknowledge my "fake" degree, I could not care less about the UK.

I do not degrade or insult Pakistan at every opportunity. I consider myself a realist and I do not like false hopes and delusions. What Pakistan is there for everyone to see - denial will not change anything.

It is a third world country infested with extremism, intolerance and political instability, a country where the Army is the most corrupt institution and holds too much power. A country that has a poor image in the media and rightly so.

However, in spite of all the problems, it is still home and that is where my roots lie. My father did not move to the UK like his other family members because he worked for the government, which is why today I am a Pakistani and not a British Pakistani.

I do not want to be pedantic, I was simply taking a leaf out of your book. I do not type on MS Word, it is called being educated and articulate.

That is all.

Also care to explain what you mean here? I don't see how a US degree is so much better than a UK degree, there are positives and negatives to studying medicine in both countries. The UK has a more complicated system, and, a UK degree can take up to 5 years to get, while in the US, I believe it takes about 4 years. Sure, in the US, it may seem "harder" but I feel like it's more the fact that Americans don't value them as much as they don't subsidise UK degrees.

 

[R3verse Swing]

Maybe it is for delusional people like you, but laughter and winning World Cups does not change the reality. In the grand scheme of things, cricket is irrelevant. Pakistan's social and economic problems will not go away by winning games of cricket.

Will cricket end terrorism in Pakistan? No

Will cricket improve the state of minorities? No

Will cricket eradicate poverty? No

Will cricket make the Army less corrupt? No

Will cricket make the government more stable? No

Winning in sport is just temporary joy and happiness. Ask the common man in Pakistan about the worth of winning the Champions Trophy when he was not able to put food on table for his family the next day.

Right, this is why you praise India on winning ANYTHING in cricket for the greater good of India.

You deserve an Oscar.

 

[R3verse Swing]

Oh dear, your inability to read basic English has failed you again.

U.S. qualified doctors get higher paid jobs IN Pakistan compared to Pakistani qualified doctors. Getting a degree from the U.S. has maximized my earning potential IN Pakistan.

I decided to stay in Pakistan because of my family situation, and since I am going to be work in Pakistan for pretty much my whole career, why not maximize my earning potential?

I never agreed with the stereotype. I am afraid you are somewhat dyslexic.

Another U-Turn.

The point is despite you anointing US for dream hood, and India for saint hood, you still picked Pakistan. Clearly it was though necessity rather than choice, hence your contempt and hatred for Pakistan, and Pakistanis abroad.