Pakistan's current bowling attack's terrible performances in Aus, Eng and NZ

[Firebat]

These were the opposition's totals in each innings Pakistan have bowled on the tours of Aus (2019), Eng (2020) and NZ (2020/21):

580/10 vs Aus - innings defeat

589/3d vs Aus - innings defeat

219/10 vs Eng

277/7 vs Eng - successful chase

110/4d vs Eng

583/8d vs Eng - saved from innings defeat by rain

431/10 vs NZ

180/5d vs NZ

659/6d vs NZ today - likely to be an innings defeat


In these last 9 innings in SENA, with a bowling attack of Abbas, Shaheen, Naseem and Yasir/Gohar, we have bowled the opposition out 3 times, and have an average runs per wicket of 57.58. This means on average the opposition can expect to score 575.8 runs before being bowled out.

Something has to change.

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/e...=bowl;template=results;type=team;view=innings

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/e...pan;team_view=bowl;template=results;type=team

 

[Varun]

Let's see what happens vs South Africa at home.

It's all on Yasir Shah's plate.

 

[MHN1293]

The entire pakistani bowling attack playing this nz test have less that 150 wickets. James anderson himself has 4 times that.

 

[Varun]

The entire pakistani bowling attack playing this nz test have less that 150 wickets. James anderson himself has 4 times that.

Last Pakistan fast bowler to take 200 wickets: Waqar Younis, debut 1989.
Last Pakistan fast bowler to play 50 tests: Waqar Younis, debut 1989.

When are you guys going to wake up and smell the coffee?

 

[Firebat]

I understand they are inexperienced, but how long do you persist with an attack that are disastrous against the big teams?

 

[Omer2002]

I understand they are inexperienced, but how long do you persist with an attack that are disastrous against the big teams?

So the new bowlers would be?

Amir would have been useless here ..in hindsight maybe Wahab for Naseem but there is nobody good enough in batting nor bowling... a team makes 650 and the great Shan bags a pair of Zeros do explain

 

[UzmanBeast]

I understand they are inexperienced, but how long do you persist with an attack that are disastrous against the big teams?

You have to experiment.

That's the only way.

Bring in Hasan Ali, drop Abbas and Naseem.

Bring in a domestic performer like Ehsan Adil, or if think that Irfanullah Shah deserves a go, pick him by all means.

 

[Energy]

Last Pakistan fast bowler to take 200 wickets: Waqar Younis, debut 1989.
Last Pakistan fast bowler to play 50 tests: Waqar Younis, debut 1989.

When are you guys going to wake up and smell the coffee?

Short careers are a hallmark of an unsettled (Asif, Sami), ego-centric (Akhtar, Amir) and mediocre (rest) team. When you have a combination of all of this, eventually the system is going to fail and you will be forced to look at miracles, and dream of teens carrying the team on their shoulders.

 

[Bahnz]

It's hard for the bowlers to take wickets when the fielders just about drop more chances than they catch. Against the top teams in their conditions, you just can't afford to keep giving their batsmen practice runs. I've felt horrible for Shaheen during this series. He's bowled magnificently and been cruelly let down by his teammates. Fielding is something that in the modern era all teams should be able to do to a base level of competence. I'm not sure what's going on in the Pakistani coaching setup but something needs to change.

 

[Mamoon]

A couple of more tours and this lot will become the first attack to concede 1,000 in an innings.

They would have achieved that dubious honor last year in Australia if Paine and Langer cared.

Australia declared at 589/3 after batting at a run rate of 4+.

 

[shah_1]

Naseem makes Wahab look like Wasim Akram in comparison
Abbas is the first spinner(doesn't do anything) in history with such a long run up.

These two shouldn't be playing international cricket. Replace them with ANYONE and you will get better results

 

[MMHS]

I think, PCT has fixed one issue in this Test - they have formed a bowling combination with 4 fast bowlers & a spinner who actually did better with bat than ball. So, it brought partial result and Kiwis scored only 659/6d (otherwise had that 3 + Yasir formula was applied, Yasir would have lost the Test with another 4/200+ sort of performance).

However, that pace attack is vertically challenged - Faheem is all-rounder so he can manage with 5’10” ish height, while Shaheen is somewhere in between 6’4” to 6’8”, so per for the course. It’s just the other two where the problem is - had PAK replaced those two with couple of pacer in the range of 6’5”.... Kiwis definitely would have lost 10 wicket for 659....

Also, Rizwan (or Babar) needs to be smarter and utilise resources better - Shan Masood is there but despite of his 6’3” ish height, he was given only 2 overs...... he has to be trusted with 20 at least per innings.

 

[MMHS]

Short careers are a hallmark of an unsettled (Asif, Sami), ego-centric (Akhtar, Amir) and mediocre (rest) team. When you have a combination of all of this, eventually the system is going to fail and you will be forced to look at miracles, and dream of teens carrying the team on their shoulders.

Actually, it can be explained other way also - there are too many talents for one pacer to cement his spot for longer - slight drop of form, he is under “threat from behind”.

It was explained beautifully long, long back by a guy named Richie Benaud.... he was explaining why Holding & Garner had so few 5fors (& eventually 20for) despite having that sort of strike rate & average .... he said that the spoils are often shared by 4 and there are only 10 to share per innings - no guarantee that you’ll get another spell even if you have knocked 2-3 in one spell.... before your next turn, innings could be over.

Similar can happen here as well (I’m not saying it’s like to like example) - there are only 3 (or 4 in latest formula) slots for pacer, one goes to “all-rounder”, so basically so much talent is fighting for just 2-3 spots .... it’s like walking on banana skin - you are under constant threat of dropping ...

 

[hoshiarpurexpress]

I think, PCT has fixed one issue in this Test - they have formed a bowling combination with 4 fast bowlers & a spinner who actually did better with bat than ball. So, it brought partial result and Kiwis scored only 659/6d (otherwise had that 3 + Yasir formula was applied, Yasir would have lost the Test with another 4/200+ sort of performance).

However, that pace attack is vertically challenged - Faheem is all-rounder so he can manage with 5’10” ish height, while Shaheen is somewhere in between 6’4” to 6’8”, so per for the course. It’s just the other two where the problem is - had PAK replaced those two with couple of pacer in the range of 6’5”.... Kiwis definitely would have lost 10 wicket for 659....

Also, Rizwan (or Babar) needs to be smarter and utilise resources better - Shan Masood is there but despite of his 6’3” ish height, he was given only 2 overs...... he has to be trusted with 20 at least per innings.

I see what you did there.

 

[amvbfm]

I think, PCT has fixed one issue in this Test - they have formed a bowling combination with 4 fast bowlers & a spinner who actually did better with bat than ball. So, it brought partial result and Kiwis scored only 659/6d (otherwise had that 3 + Yasir formula was applied, Yasir would have lost the Test with another 4/200+ sort of performance).

However, that pace attack is vertically challenged - Faheem is all-rounder so he can manage with 5’10” ish height, while Shaheen is somewhere in between 6’4” to 6’8”, so per for the course. It’s just the other two where the problem is - had PAK replaced those two with couple of pacer in the range of 6’5”.... Kiwis definitely would have lost 10 wicket for 659....

Also, Rizwan (or Babar) needs to be smarter and utilise resources better - Shan Masood is there but despite of his 6’3” ish height, he was given only 2 overs...... he has to be trusted with 20 at least per innings.

I wonder where Ehsan Adil is, he is the only way we are going to win in SENA, and of course we need to bat Shadab at 4. Also agree about Shan. He has been criminally under utilized with the ball considering his height..

 

[ask_analyse_act]

Last Pakistan fast bowler to take 200 wickets: Waqar Younis, debut 1989.
Last Pakistan fast bowler to play 50 tests: Waqar Younis, debut 1989.

When are you guys going to wake up and smell the coffee?

Yes dont be surprised , thats 100% true...


With all the years Shoaib Akthar played, he has managed to play only 46 tests... and the next in line was Sami with a bowling avg of 50+


Also in the spinner section, danish kaneria is the last spinner to play 50 tests

 

[Varun]

Yes dont be surprised , thats 100% true...


With all the years Shoaib Akthar played, he has managed to play only 46 tests... and the next in line was Sami with a bowling avg of 50+


Also in the spinner section, danish kaneria is the last spinner to play 50 tests

Don't forget the underrated Umar Gul. 47 tests for him.

 

[amvbfm]

These were the opposition's totals in each innings Pakistan have bowled on the tours of Aus (2019), Eng (2020) and NZ (2020/21):

580/10 vs Aus - innings defeat

589/3d vs Aus - innings defeat

219/10 vs Eng

277/7 vs Eng - successful chase

110/4d vs Eng

583/8d vs Eng - saved from innings defeat by rain

431/10 vs NZ

180/5d vs NZ

659/6d vs NZ today - likely to be an innings defeat


In these last 9 innings in SENA, with a bowling attack of Abbas, Shaheen, Naseem and Yasir/Gohar, we have bowled the opposition out 3 times, and have an average runs per wicket of 57.58. This means on average the opposition can expect to score 575.8 runs before being bowled out.

Something has to change.

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/e...=bowl;template=results;type=team;view=innings

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/e...pan;team_view=bowl;template=results;type=team

It isn't as if we have Wasims and Waqars waiting in the wings. It is an inexperienced lineup and to be honest it hasn't done as badly as those numbers suggest. The batsmen rarely give them a chance to exert any sort of pressure and on the few occasions that they do manage something decent the fielders ensure the advantage is lost. Naseem surely needs to more experience before he could be of much use in tests but don't think we have ready replacements for Shaheen and Abbas. I know the latter will be draw a lot of criticism and most people will be calling for his head but under the circumstances he hasn't done badly. He has been invariably tight and produced chances. Its the third and fourth bowler where we struggle and where all the pressure is released.

 

[ask_analyse_act]

Don't forget the underrated Umar Gul. 47 tests for him.

Oh yes I forgot him... He is seriously underrated after the emergence of Amir and Asif, but after the spot fixing fiasco, he should have been the mainstay for tests but unfortunately after the 2011 CWC he was not that good in tests, gets selected here and there , blows hot and cold....

 

[Minnowbasher]

Its sad that our bowlers historically have lacked consistency. They will be amazing for a couple of years and then club level. Take abbas and yasir as examples.
Same can be said about our batting aswell.

 

[Ahmed216]

Cant blame bowlers too much in this game. Dropped catches and a wicket on a no ball

 

[MMHS]

I wonder where Ehsan Adil is, he is the only way we are going to win in SENA, and of course we need to bat Shadab at 4. Also agree about Shan. He has been criminally under utilized with the ball considering his height..

Mo Nawaz at 5 also will bring dynamism in the balance - batting average of 38, bowling average 35...

Basically you are getting an Amir Sohail & Shaheen Afridi in one package, but this guy bowls spin..

 

[PakPremi]

One thing to remember many times these bowlers have created chances but fielders dropped easy chances, whereas fielders need to boost the bowlers by taking half chances. On top of that these bowlers have no balled on dismissals, and not gone for drs few times. Young bowlers are easily discouraged and lose focus when things are not going their way, this is where you need boost from your bowlers. The selection of teams for Sena have also been wrong like selecting Yasir, and so many inexperienced bowlers in same team again and again despite their failures.

 

[rollingstoned]

I think, PCT has fixed one issue in this Test - they have formed a bowling combination with 4 fast bowlers & a spinner who actually did better with bat than ball. So, it brought partial result and Kiwis scored only 659/6d (otherwise had that 3 + Yasir formula was applied, Yasir would have lost the Test with another 4/200+ sort of performance).

However, that pace attack is vertically challenged - Faheem is all-rounder so he can manage with 5’10” ish height, while Shaheen is somewhere in between 6’4” to 6’8”, so per for the course. It’s just the other two where the problem is - had PAK replaced those two with couple of pacer in the range of 6’5”.... Kiwis definitely would have lost 10 wicket for 659....

Also, Rizwan (or Babar) needs to be smarter and utilise resources better - Shan Masood is there but despite of his 6’3” ish height, he was given only 2 overs...... he has to be trusted with 20 at least per innings.

you're in good form sir. razor sharp yet inoffensive with the sarcasm. one would not know that you are hurting as much as most of this board with such displays.

 

[Robert]

I thought the bowlers did ok in England, skittling the hosts in the first test first innings, and having them 120-5 in the second before the extraordinary Buttler-Woakes stand.

They just need more runs at their back.

 

[offstump]

I wonder where Ehsan Adil is, he is the only way we are going to win in SENA, and of course we need to bat Shadab at 4. Also agree about Shan. He has been criminally under utilized with the ball considering his height..

Ehsan Adil didn't have a very good QEA trophy. Same with Rahat Ali.. seems like they're no longer topping the stats charts however, I haven't seen their matches so its hard to say what kind of form they're in.

 

[MMHS]

you're in good form sir. razor sharp yet inoffensive with the sarcasm. one would not know that you are hurting as much as most of this board with such displays.

Trust me - it’s not for PCT, I never had any grudge against the players.

BUT, I am a bit “emotional” when the basic cricket knowledge is challenged. Players are trying their best, so can’t blame them - but if anyone tries technical jargons and logics and scenarios ...... to brainwash with some gyyan, you know ....

 

[JaDed]

Trust me - it’s not for PCT, I never had any grudge against the players.

BUT, I am a bit “emotional” when the basic cricket knowledge is challenged. Players are trying their best, so can’t blame them - but if anyone tries technical jargons and logics and scenarios ...... to brainwash with some gyyan, you know ....

That would had happen again with one good performance and flashy post about potential, already Junaids has said Pant is 80% the batsman Rohail Nazir is..(which could be once he plays INTL cricket not before that..)

 

[Savak]

As the team's fast bowling coach, given that this has happened in his tenure, this is all on Waqar. He personally lobbied and promoted the likes of Shaheen, Naseem, Hasnain, Musa on his twitter account and in various interviews before most of these bowlers all got selected for Pakistan. It was his responsibility to work with the bowlers on their skills, line/length and bowling strategies. In fact Naseem has now reduced his run up under his watch and lost a good 7-10 km/hr and nip in his bowling.

The team which boasts of having a good promising pace bowling attack cannot be conceding 400, 500, 600 runs habitually in 7 test matches with no one to be held accountable. I hope he is not allowed to get away with passing the buck on to the young bowling lot and blaming Amir, Wahab for deserting the team.

 

[amvbfm]

Mo Nawaz at 5 also will bring dynamism in the balance - batting average of 38, bowling average 35...

Basically you are getting an Amir Sohail & Shaheen Afridi in one package, but this guy bowls spin..

Unforgivable mistake on my part for failing to remember this most talented allrounder.

 

[Firebat]

In these last 9 innings in SENA, with a bowling attack of Abbas, Shaheen, Naseem and Yasir/Gohar, we have bowled the opposition out 3 times, and have an average runs per wicket of 57.58. This means on average the opposition can expect to score 575.8 runs before being bowled out.

Something has to change.

This can be applied to coaches or players. But something is clearly wrong with our bowling performance, and something has to be done about it. New fielding coach, new bowling coach, change of personnel in the bowling attack, something. We surely cannot continue the same.

 

[MMHS]

This can be applied to coaches or players. But something is clearly wrong with our bowling performance, and something has to be done about it. New fielding coach, new bowling coach, change of personnel in the bowling attack, something. We surely cannot continue the same.

One major problem is too much focus on T20 cricket - that rubbish doesn’t need the bowling penetration or skills or discipline. If you look at the PAK bowling, they have used 5 new balls in this series - pacers, even someone as accurate as Abbas hardly made batsmen play. Shaheen did get few in his first spell but he was just too predictable.

In contrast, check how many new balls Kiwi pacers made PAK top 4 to play in first 35 overs. Yes, there is a gap in quality of batsmen (the judgement of off stick line or leaving on length are functions of how many balls you can make a batsman play at it), but still it was too loose. Also, Kiwis used short ball as a purpose and changed length with a plan - PAK used short ball as a means of steaming out frustration. Besides, only quality bowler PAK had was a fade away Yasir - those wickets were not for him.

 

[shamaan]

has anyone got any stats of how many dropped catches in the last 7 tests ?