Pakistan's lower order firepower is non-existent

[Madplayer]

The top order is more or less fixed, in the middle order we have Haris, Hafeez etc.

But apart from hit or miss Asif ali, where is the fire power? It means even if you score 260 in 40 overs, the lack of power hitters down the order means that you will always score par or below par totals.

How can this be fixed so close to world cup?

 

[mon858]

The top order is more or less fixed, in the middle order we have Haris, Hafeez etc.

But apart from hit or miss Asif ali, where is the fire power? It means even if you score 260 in 40 overs, the lack of power hitters down the order means that you will always score par or below par totals.

How can this be fixed so close to world cup?

i honestly feel the real difference between the 340-350 which seems par on these pitches vs the 370-400 is not actually lower order power but how the top/middle order plays. for teams to get consistent high scores they have to try and score at 6.75-7 RPO from beginning and then get to 7.5 at end. we do quite well now at scoring at 5.75-6 from beginning and even if you have power hitting at bottom you will get to the 375+ once in a blue moon.

also, while i know power hitting at 6/7/8 used to be a big issue in last 2 years, to be honest, it has improved quite a bit if you look at how asif performed last couple games, shoaib today strike rate and imads strike rate as well in last year or so.

 

[Madplayer]

i honestly feel the real difference between the 340-350 which seems par on these pitches vs the 370-400 is not actually lower order power but how the top/middle order plays. for teams to get consistent high scores they have to try and score at 6.75-7 RPO from beginning and then get to 7.5 at end. we do quite well now at scoring at 5.75-6 from beginning and even if you have power hitting at bottom you will get to the 375+ once in a blue moon.

also, while i know power hitting at 6/7/8 used to be a big issue in last 2 years, to be honest, it has improved quite a bit if you look at how asif performed last couple games, shoaib today strike rate and imads strike rate as well in last year or so.

Pakistan scored 258 in 40 overs today. At the loss of 3 wickets i think. Same in last match. I dont think top order of other teams do much more than this. Its the lower order which scores 120 in last 10 to take the total to a match winning one.

 

[Madplayer]

Watching sarfaraz struggling to cross the 30 yard circle and then the commentary criticising Pakistan's lower order is so embarrassing as a fan.

 

[boomboom6]

Need one more power hitter besides Asif in the lower order ... I think this can be fixed after the world cup ... Hopefully Sharjeel also returns

Sharjeel, Imam, Babar, Fakhar (c), Rizwan, Umar Akmal, Asif Ali is about the best top 7 we can get.

 

[Farhan93]

i honestly feel the real difference between the 340-350 which seems par on these pitches vs the 370-400 is not actually lower order power but how the top/middle order plays . for teams to get consistent high scores they have to try and score at 6.75-7 RPO from beginning and then get to 7.5 at end. we do quite well now at scoring at 5.75-6 from beginning and even if you have power hitting at bottom you will get to the 375+ once in a blue moon.

also, while i know power hitting at 6/7/8 used to be a big issue in last 2 years, to be honest, it has improved quite a bit if you look at how asif performed last couple games, shoaib today strike rate and imads strike rate as well in last year or so.

Spot on. People need to understand this

 

[Farhan93]

Pakistan scored 258 in 40 overs today. At the loss of 3 wickets i think. Same in last match. I dont think top order of other teams do much more than this. Its the lower order which scores 120 in last 10 to take the total to a match winning one.

Better top order can, Have Sharjeel,Shahzaib,Fakhar in your top 3 on flattest england pitches you often reach 200 within 22-23 overs....even if you lose 4 wickets for 200 in 24 overs we would be in better position than what we do now. It's all about the mindset and players we choose, we are happy with imam and babar, though we could have called Sharjeel back and tried another one at 3 or put Fakhar down at 3 with another aggressive opener with Sharjeel and we were good to go ... but I realise now our fans are as big a problem as our players because they are the ones who encourage the likes of Imam and Babar and call Fakhar hack for playing aggressively

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Read the thread on Umar Akmal. People are outraged that he is even being mentioned, but for all his faults, he is one of very few Pakistan batsmen who have the ability to hit top bowlers for six. I get that we don't want to pick him for other issues, which is fine, but don't complain that we can't finish matches, it is virtually impossible on these pitches without middle order big hitters.

 

[Madplayer]

Better top order can, Have Sharjeel,Shahzaib,Fakhar in your top 3 on flattest england pitches you often reach 200 within 22-23 overs....even if you lose 4 wickets for 200 in 24 overs we would be in better position than what we do now. It's all about the mindset and players we choose, we are happy with imam and babar, though we could have called Sharjeel back and tried another one at 3 or put Fakhar down at 3 with another aggressive opener with Sharjeel and we were good to go ... but I realise now our fans are as big a problem as our players because they are the ones who encourage the likes of Imam and Babar and call Fakhar hack for playing aggressively

200 in 22 overs? Tell me which team does that? It means they will score 200 in next 22. Which takes the total to 400 in 44 overs. It doesnt happen. 260 in 40 overs is a very good contribution from top and middle order. The rest has to be done by lower order hitters. 120 in last 10 is minimum these days.

 

[Farhan93]

200 in 22 overs? Tell me which team does that? It means they will score 200 in next 22. Which takes the total to 400 in 44 overs. It doesnt happen. 260 in 40 overs is a very good contribution from top and middle order. The rest has to be done by lower order hitters. 120 in last 10 is minimum these days.

I mentioned 200 in 22- 23 overs while keeping in mind the winning score we would need to make against the side containing the likes of bairstow,hales,roy,buttler etc. And we can do that , Look at Sharjeel's SR and avg in England , during 2016 series he was batting with a SR of 130-140 and scoring 60s 70s , Fakhar's SR in England is 110+ and avg is more than 55 and if you include someone like Shahzaib Hasan who's a similar batsman to Bairstow he can also maintain the strike rate of over 110-130 in Eng. Then you have a good enough top order to score more than 400 on pitches like trent bridge's. Even county sides score 430-420 for fun now.. and you are saying it's not possible? maybe, you don't want to see it from Pakistan that's an another thing because for that to happen your babar and Imam need to be dropped from the side and you don't want that.

Bairstow,Roy took Eng to 180 in 20 overs in the last match, have you forgot? so why can't reach 200 in 23 overs with Sharjeel,Fakhar and someone like Shahzaib in our top 3? You need to have an intent.. if you are satisfied with players having avg of 56 and SR of 80 then you can never win against big teams on flattest pitches.. it's a fact whether you admit or not

 

[MajidBhuta-AamirFan]

After four batsmen out, remaining all are plain crap.. just crap.. captain is biggest crap... he just ...

 

[Madplayer]

I mentioned 200 in 22- 23 overs while keeping in mind the winning score we would need to make against the side containing the likes of bairstow,hales,roy,buttler etc. And we can do that , Look at Sharjeel's SR and avg in England , during 2016 series he was batting with a SR of 130-140 and scoring 60s 70s , Fakhar's SR in England is 110+ and avg is more than 55 and if you include someone like Shahzaib Hasan who's a similar batsman to Bairstow he can also maintain the strike rate of over 110-130 in Eng. Then you have a good enough top order to score more than 400 on pitches like trent bridge's. Even county sides score 430-420 for fun now.. and you are saying it's not possible? maybe, you don't want to see it from Pakistan that's an another thing because for that to happen your babar and Imam need to be dropped from the side and you don't want that.

Bairstow,Roy took Eng to 180 in 20 overs in the last match, have you forgot? so why can't reach 200 in 23 overs with Sharjeel,Fakhar and someone like Shahzaib in our top 3? You need to have an intent.. if you are satisfied with players having avg of 56 and SR of 80 then you can never win against big teams on flattest pitches.. it's a fact whether you admit or not

Well firstly, scoring 430 isnt an everyday affair. Even England chased 340 in the 50th over yesterday rather than very quickly. Secondly, Pakistan doesnt have the kind of players you are giving examples of. Bairstow, Butler type of players are nowhere in Pakistan's domestic set up. Sharjeel, Shahzaib have been caught in spot fixing related issues so kindly dont give their examples.

I understand that you want Pakistan's top order to bat like Roy, bairstow , morgan and butler. Unfortunately, Pakistan doesnt have that kind of firepower and neither does any other team to be honest. Man to Man, England has more explosive players than any other team. So, you have to work with what you have. Pakistan's top 3-4 players have shown that they are competitive enough to get Pakistan into a position from where they can get to a match winning total. Now Pakistan's best bet is to find a couple of explosive lower order bats. Get rid of Malik, sarfaraz, Hafeez, Faheem type of players and get in some big hitters in those key positions who can score 120 off last 10 overs.

 

[Pete Rose]

The top order is more or less fixed, in the middle order we have Haris, Hafeez etc.

But apart from hit or miss Asif ali, where is the fire power? It means even if you score 260 in 40 overs, the lack of power hitters down the order means that you will always score par or below par totals.

How can this be fixed so close to world cup?

You cant play hafeez, malik, and sarfaraz in the same team.
And faheem and imad have been disappointing.
Our scores are built by the top 3 and asif.

 

[Madplayer]

After four batsmen out, remaining all are plain crap.. just crap.. captain is biggest crap... he just ...

True. And this has been the case since last 1 year now. And nothing has been done to address it.

 

[Madplayer]

You cant play hafeez, malik, and sarfaraz in the same team.
And faheem and imad have been disappointing.
Our scores are built by the top 3 and asif.

Exactly. Investment in Faheem the allrounder has failed plain and simple. Imad isnt the kind of batsman that can score a 20 ball 40 regularly. He is more like a player who would end up with a strike rate of 110-115 if he scores more than 30 runs. Or he can score 20 off 12 before giving away his wicket. And lets face it, Sarfaraz was never a power hitter.

Pakistan badly needs 2 reliable power hitters down the order and at least one of them should be able to bowl as well.

 

[Pete Rose]

Exactly. Investment in Faheem the allrounder has failed plain and simple. Imad isnt the kind of batsman that can score a 20 ball 40 regularly. He is more like a player who would end up with a strike rate of 110-115 if he scores more than 30 runs. Or he can score 20 off 12 before giving away his wicket. And lets face it, Sarfaraz was never a power hitter.

Pakistan badly needs 2 reliable power hitters down the order and at least one of them should be able to bowl as well.

Yeah. See my issue with Sarfaraz is that he has to back himself above anybody else. I know he is a limited player. But he has to lead from the front and bat at 4. Once he bats at 4 there is no need for malik in the team (Since both play almost exactly the same way) and that frees up a spot in the team. Secondly he needs to push hafeez to . And he should chose between Imad and Shahab: cant play both.

 

[Farhan93]

Well firstly, scoring 430 isnt an everyday affair. Even England chased 340 in the 50th over yesterday rather than very quickly. Secondly, Pakistan doesnt have the kind of players you are giving examples of. Bairstow, Butler type of players are nowhere in Pakistan's domestic set up. Sharjeel, Shahzaib have been caught in spot fixing related issues so kindly dont give their examples.

I understand that you want Pakistan's top order to bat like Roy, bairstow , morgan and butler. Unfortunately, Pakistan doesnt have that kind of firepower and neither does any other team to be honest. Man to Man, England has more explosive players than any other team. So, you have to work with what you have. Pakistan's top 3-4 players have shown that they are competitive enough to get Pakistan into a position from where they can get to a match winning total. Now Pakistan's best bet is to find a couple of explosive lower order bats. Get rid of Malik, sarfaraz, Hafeez, Faheem type of players and get in some big hitters in those key positions who can score 120 off last 10 overs.

I am talking about England pitches esp Trent bridge, where 400 is a regular score not an anomaly anymore. Tell me how can you score 400 if you have players like Babar and Imam in the team ,you know they can't . But you can with Sharjeel,Fakhar and Shahzaib as your top 3 and ,Hafeez,Asif,Imad in your middle to lower middle order..you certainly can. Why shouldn't I mention Shahzaib and Sharjeel ?because they would threaten the place of your imams and babars?,Sharjeel's suspension is about to end and PCB could have ended it earlier and called him earlier before the WC. if Amir can return and still play without any performance and looks uninterested why can't we have Sharjeel and Shahzaib as well? They atleast didn't commit a crime while wearing Pakistan jersey..anyways we can seriously consider both of them if we want to play the right brand of cricket and want to win .

We don't have such players in abundance yes and we are not producing them why? because fans encourage selfish players like Imam and babar and misbah so why anyone would want to bat any differently when they see the support and blind backing these players have been getting over the years?