Pakistan's over rated, over hyped bowling is to blame

[Savak]

I think our batting has actually punched above its weight in the first two T-20's. 156 and 163 are pretty competitive totals especially for sides boasting that bowling is their strongest point.

While you would not expect a quality bowling side to bowl out the opposition and successfully defending such low par totals but you would atleast expect them to fight and pick up atleast 5-6 wickets in the process and showing some unassisted wicket taking brilliance.

Unfortunately our bowling has just looked third grade. NZ have done their homework on Shaheen knowing he brings the ball back in at good pace and is our main weapon hence they play him very carefully but they have gone after the other bowlers with a vengeance.

Wahab sadly is past it and should not be picked again. Faheem in contrast has done a decent holding job. The spinners have been brutally exposed in conditions which do not assist them.

Failing to pick up wickets when there is pace, bounce on the wicket is what is disgraceful.

I seriously hope that some questions Waqar on what has he been getting his paycheque for exactly and what has he actually contributed so far during his tenure?

 

[Thunderbolt14]

160 is an absolutely shambolic total where the lowest score ever defended is 185. The par score here is 190-200.

Do your research.

 

[Snowflake]

No, it's not.

 

[Kroll]

160 is an absolutely shambolic total where the lowest score ever defended is 185. The par score here is 190-200.

Do your research.

I fully agree, only in Misbah's world, would 150/160 be world beating totals. In these small NZ grounds and with their batting firepower, need 190+ to even make it competitive.

I think people are just accepting and embracing the mediocrity, don't blame them, mitigates the pain somewhat.

 

[Savak]

Lol, our over rated bowlers can't even make a fight out of it, not to much to ask for to get 5-6 wickets atleast. Even 200 runs will not be enough for this bowling attack. They have already conceded 190 against England and came extremely close to defeat in the second match.

 

[El Generico]

I don’t think many bowling attacks would be able to defend 160ish on NZ grounds especially against the home team.IIRC West Indies couldn’t even defend 180 despite having a pretty decent pace attack.

 

[TeamPak95]

If we're gonna play the blame game, the finger should be first pointed towards the batsmen in the opening powerplay; specifically, the approach to it. I get Babar's injured but you replace him with Rizwan? His batting is really good for test cricket, but mediocre in t20s where he severely lacks a power game (or a timing-the-ball game for that matter). Pakistan should have played batsmen who would (on paper) be capable of taking advantage of the opening powerplay. Something like a Zeeshan-Abdullah, or a Zeeshan-Haider. Not to make it sound like these opening combos would've worked, but in theory and in approach it would've made more sense.

Regarding the bowling, not to say that they're collectively world-class or anything but I feel they would've been more at ease if the batsmen took advantage of the powerplay better (with proper selections of course + better game plan) and at least added a good 20-30 more runs to the team's respective totals in the 1st and 2nd T20, thereby the bowlers having the cushion of a bigger total to defend.

 

[Colorblind Genius]

Lol, our over rated bowlers can't even make a fight out of it, not to much to ask for to get 5-6 wickets atleast. Even 200 runs will not be enough for this bowling attack. They have already conceded 190 against England and came extremely close to defeat in the second match.

Yep, while you are at it, take out Hafeez's 99 and you can blame the Pak bowlers even more for not taking all 10 NZ wickets in their home ground in defending a total of 65 runs.

 

[waleed88]

I think our batting has actually punched above its weight in the first two T-20's. 156 and 163 are pretty competitive totals especially for sides boasting that bowling is their strongest point.

While you would not expect a quality bowling side to bowl out the opposition and successfully defending such low par totals but you would atleast expect them to fight and pick up atleast 5-6 wickets in the process and showing some unassisted wicket taking brilliance.

Unfortunately our bowling has just looked third grade. NZ have done their homework on Shaheen knowing he brings the ball back in at good pace and is our main weapon hence they play him very carefully but they have gone after the other bowlers with a vengeance.

Wahab sadly is past it and should not be picked again. Faheem in contrast has done a decent holding job. The spinners have been brutally exposed in conditions which do not assist them.

Failing to pick up wickets when there is pace, bounce on the wicket is what is disgraceful.

I seriously hope that some questions Waqar on what has he been getting his paycheque for exactly and what has he actually contributed so far during his tenure?

https://www.google.com/search?q=pak...2j0i8i13i30.6413j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

Pakistan vs NZ in 2016. Scores were 171 and 161 by Pakistani team. And besides the first T20, they chased down the total in the 2nd T20 easily

 

[PakHammer]

Our 20/20 spinners now are so bad with Shadab and Imad. Imad is a darter who hardly turns the ball and Shadab, I cant remember when he last won us a 20/20 match with his bowling? Not likes the days when we had Ajmal, Shahid Afridi and Hafeez taking wickets in 20/20's. Ok two of them has dodgy actions but still.

I would actually give Usman Qadir a few more games as he can turn the ball like a spinner should.

 

[Thunderbolt14]

Our 20/20 spinners now are so bad with Shadab and Imad. Imad is a darter who hardly turns the ball and Shadab, I cant remember when he last won us a 20/20 match with his bowling? Not likes the days when we had Ajmal, Shahid Afridi and Hafeez taking wickets in 20/20's. Ok two of them has dodgy actions but still.

I would actually give Usman Qadir a few more games as he can turn the ball like a spinner should.

Imad does very well in the powerplay, one of the best economy rates in the world. He also turned it the other way yesterday in a pretty surprising delivery that just missed the edge.

Plus, on Indian pitches, he’ll turn the ball slightly more since the ball grips, which combined with his inswing and the respect that batsmen give him in the powerplay, means that he’s a very good option. He is also one of our most reliable hitters in the death overs, and with Khushdil or any other “finisher” failing to impress, he becomes a must pick. Not that he’s any Murali.

The real issue right now is with Shadab — I was raving about him raising his bowling form back up a few months ago in England as well as in the PSL, but it seems he’s gone rusty again with the groin injury. Most are ready to write Shadab off, but with him unable to properly plant his foot down, he can’t extract as much spin as he would otherwise like, let alone on a New Zealand pitch (with small boundaries not being helpful either). This prevents him from being consistent — Shadab bowls 5 good balls every over coupled with one bad one.

Rather than dropping him for Usman Qadir who bowls 3 excellent deliveries every over and 3 smackable ones, it’s more worthwhile to help Shadab develop the consistency for that 6th ball, as well as keeping in mind Indian pitches, the fact that he’s the best fielder in the team by a country mile (infinitely better than Qadir, at least), is able to bat in pressure situations, and is 4 years younger than Qadir and 9 years younger than Zahid Mehmood, the next best option available.

I realize you are frustrated to see a genuine spinner, but this is one of the rare occasions I agree with some of the gloomy posters on here that there is not much of a spin backup in this country, let alone those who can field and bat too (otherwise the tail becomes too long, and you’ll drop catches like people are criticizing other players right now for). Unfortunately or fortunately, the nature of the format means that fielding is 20% more important than any other format, which is one of the underrated reasons for why we were so dominant in the UAE (between Shadab, Babar, Imad, Malik, Hafeez, and Fakhar effecting good catches and runouts almost every game).

If Qadir is going to miss those blinders of catches, or blinders of runouts, and is going to bowl 2-3 hittable balls per over, and will bat at 9 at the highest, I would much rather not play him at all. I do realize the frustration though, and wish we had someone like Ajmal, Hafeez, or Afridi. Maybe a better solution to your problem than Qadir is having Hafeez begin to bowl again, 1-2 overs per match, since he’s already a confirmed pick in the playing XI.

 

[Flat_Track_Bully]

I just don't think the players have match fitness and sharpness.

 

[Corridor of Uncertainty]

NZ scores against WI recently were 238 and 180. Pakistan's below par batting is to blame. Bowling had no chance - yet they took the chase to last over both times.

 

[PakHammer]

Imad does very well in the powerplay, one of the best economy rates in the world. He also turned it the other way yesterday in a pretty surprising delivery that just missed the edge.

Plus, on Indian pitches, he’ll turn the ball slightly more since the ball grips, which combined with his inswing and the respect that batsmen give him in the powerplay, means that he’s a very good option. He is also one of our most reliable hitters in the death overs, and with Khushdil or any other “finisher” failing to impress, he becomes a must pick. Not that he’s any Murali.

The real issue right now is with Shadab — I was raving about him raising his bowling form back up a few months ago in England as well as in the PSL, but it seems he’s gone rusty again with the groin injury. Most are ready to write Shadab off, but with him unable to properly plant his foot down, he can’t extract as much spin as he would otherwise like, let alone on a New Zealand pitch (with small boundaries not being helpful either). This prevents him from being consistent — Shadab bowls 5 good balls every over coupled with one bad one.

Rather than dropping him for Usman Qadir who bowls 3 excellent deliveries every over and 3 smackable ones, it’s more worthwhile to help Shadab develop the consistency for that 6th ball, as well as keeping in mind Indian pitches, the fact that he’s the best fielder in the team by a country mile (infinitely better than Qadir, at least), is able to bat in pressure situations, and is 4 years younger than Qadir and 9 years younger than Zahid Mehmood, the next best option available.

I realize you are frustrated to see a genuine spinner, but this is one of the rare occasions I agree with some of the gloomy posters on here that there is not much of a spin backup in this country, let alone those who can field and bat too (otherwise the tail becomes too long, and you’ll drop catches like people are criticizing other players right now for). Unfortunately or fortunately, the nature of the format means that fielding is 20% more important than any other format, which is one of the underrated reasons for why we were so dominant in the UAE (between Shadab, Babar, Imad, Malik, Hafeez, and Fakhar effecting good catches and runouts almost every game).

If Qadir is going to miss those blinders of catches, or blinders of runouts, and is going to bowl 2-3 hittable balls per over, and will bat at 9 at the highest, I would much rather not play him at all. I do realize the frustration though, and wish we had someone like Ajmal, Hafeez, or Afridi. Maybe a better solution to your problem than Qadir is having Hafeez begin to bowl again, 1-2 overs per match, since he’s already a confirmed pick in the playing XI.

You do make some good points. I agree with Imad's batting has come along well in the last year but I don't know I have grown up with Pakistan mystery spinners and Imad is nowhere in the category. I would take wicket taking spinners rather than one's with a half decent economy rate.

 

[UzmanBeast]

160 is an absolutely shambolic total where the lowest score ever defended is 185. The par score here is 190-200.

Do your research.

Absolutely.

Though our bowling was also of some concern, our batting cost us the game. Had we hit around 20-30 more runs, we'd have defended the score even if New Zealand only lost 1 wicket. Our fielding was also horrendous, and we are only shooting ourselves on the foot by playing in this lethargic and pathetic manner.

 

[Xoib]

Bowling was not great but the batting should get the major blame these are 190-200 par score pitches and we were shory by 30-50runs both games.

 

[usman.sandhu]

The only reason the match dragged out to the last over was because NZ appeared more interested in winning by 9 wickets than with overs to spare. If they really went for it they would have finished it off with a few overs to spare.

Both batting and bowling have been pathetic, but that is expected from a pathetic team.

Poor team... worse coaches / managers who have done nothing to raise standards..

Out with Misbah / Waqar..

 

[MMHS]

I think, with Babar batting could be slightly ahead but 150s & 160s are almost nothing score in NZ. Also, we should remember, PAK was lucky and need unexpected tail bashing in first game while in second game Hafeez carried literally 80% of batting - if he was caught earlier, 150 could have been a challenge.

In contrast, bowlers made it tight in first game, could have been real tight had Faheem taken that catch which went for four. In second game, bowling looked poor only in PP because I read from “experts” ... it’s a bowling wicket, wicket has turn, it’s seeming .... 150 will be defended able...... basically, minimum you need in NZ T20s is 200, even then ... few years back PAK scored like 170 and Kiwis won it by 10 wickets inside 16 overs!!!!

As I wrote in preview thread - only, only chance PAK had was to bowl first, get kiwis off guard for a target under 170 and chase it using the batting length for entire 20 overs. Batting second means PAK will need to set at least 95% of per score - that’s around 190, add 10-15 for the pathetic fielding which will collapse once the pressure of defending mounts on - means the per target goes beyond 200 ..... 9 out of 10 times PAK won’t score 200+ batting first, even with Babar against this Kiwi side.

 

[thecrusade911]

If I remember correctly, India defended 164 and 178 against full-strength NZ in January. Even if Pakistan did score 180 to 190, I highly doubt they would defend it.

 

[hitthestump]

The bowling has at least been serviceable, though Wahab looks past it and Shadab not up to this level.

The batting has been the biggest joke.

We do need to remember though that there's been very little practice since arriving in NZ and that they are a top top team these days, way better than Pakistan are.

 

[ask_analyse_act]

Spinners in these two t20s have failed. NZL is one of worst team in playing spin and spinners come out wicketless is simply cruel.

But the management will still be clueless and play the same spinners again. Usman Qadir bowled well in the Zimbabwe series, why not persist with him. If Shadab needs to be captain then I would still replace Imad with Usman Qadir. Two right arm leggie is still a better option than darting Imad.

 

[ask_analyse_act]

Batting wise , without babar this team is simply nothing. Many ppl must have realised this at least now.

Now in the test series they will realise more when this team lose wicket right left and centre.

Waiting for innings bundled out for scores 50 and struggling to reach 100.

 

[MMHS]

If I remember correctly, India defended 164 and 178 against full-strength NZ in January. Even if Pakistan did score 180 to 190, I highly doubt they would defend it.

This one I can explain.

Indian bowling didn’t defend those totals rather the team as a unit was mentally much tougher, kept fighting till last ball, never left the contest for Kiwis to relax - eventually Kiwis faltered on the eight ball. More than bowling skills, it was their mental toughness that got better of Kiwis - some other days Kiwis could have won that with plenty to spare. Similar situation, PAK team will bump dollies over the line for a six!!!! IICRC, it was Shardul Thakur who defended last over twice, few years back Pandeya defended 1 run in 3 balls against BD - these are not for bowling skills FGS, rather the batsmen couldn’t compete in mind games.

I also don’t see PAK defending 180, but not because of only the bowling skills but rather because players are just not accustomed of delivering under high pressure situations. To be honest, only two PAK players in recent times I have seen not to break down under pressure is in form Fakhar (who can play at same tempo regardless of situation or opponent), and partially Wahab - he is getting bashing here in NZ, because his loose cannon was expected to backfire on those Kiwi grounds, but in general guy is good in death overs. And yes, old Amir was one who responded under pressure. Rest including Babar are not like that to fight it out and leader of that choker bunch is current Captain - ultimate bits & pieces cricketer; which won’t help the team under pressure at all. This is where you need Captains .... not cheer leaders.

 

[stevewittry]

I think our batting has actually punched above its weight in the first two T-20's. 156 and 163 are pretty competitive totals especially for sides boasting that bowling is their strongest point.

While you would not expect a quality bowling side to bowl out the opposition and successfully defending such low par totals but you would atleast expect them to fight and pick up atleast 5-6 wickets in the process and showing some unassisted wicket taking brilliance.

Unfortunately our bowling has just looked third grade. NZ have done their homework on Shaheen knowing he brings the ball back in at good pace and is our main weapon hence they play him very carefully but they have gone after the other bowlers with a vengeance.

Wahab sadly is past it and should not be picked again. Faheem in contrast has done a decent holding job. The spinners have been brutally exposed in conditions which do not assist them.

Failing to pick up wickets when there is pace, bounce on the wicket is what is disgraceful.

I seriously hope that some questions Waqar on what has he been getting his paycheque for exactly and what has he actually contributed so far during his tenure?

160 odd totals in micro sized grounds as in NZ is beyond a poor total. Pak bowlers must be credited for taking the game till the last over, even with their poor fielding.

Any other attack (and I must also include great full strength Aussie attack) will struggle to stretch it this far.

 

[Savak]

A bowling attack of Starc, Hazelwood, Cummins will atleast take 5-6 wickets while defending a par total and make the opposition fight for every run. This is what every fan of a cricket team expects. The way Pakistani bowlers operate and are so easy to attack, play, even 200 plus runs are not enough for such a garbage bowling attack

 

[shamaan]

I think our batting has actually punched above its weight in the first two T-20's. 156 and 163 are pretty competitive totals especially for sides boasting that bowling is their strongest point.

While you would not expect a quality bowling side to bowl out the opposition and successfully defending such low par totals but you would atleast expect them to fight and pick up atleast 5-6 wickets in the process and showing some unassisted wicket taking brilliance.

Unfortunately our bowling has just looked third grade. NZ have done their homework on Shaheen knowing he brings the ball back in at good pace and is our main weapon hence they play him very carefully but they have gone after the other bowlers with a vengeance.

Wahab sadly is past it and should not be picked again. Faheem in contrast has done a decent holding job. The spinners have been brutally exposed in conditions which do not assist them.

Failing to pick up wickets when there is pace, bounce on the wicket is what is disgraceful.

I seriously hope that some questions Waqar on what has he been getting his paycheque for exactly and what has he actually contributed so far during his tenure?

160 was below bar score you will never defend that in new Zealand they needed 180 that would have beem defended if everyone bowled decently.the batters are to blame the bowlers did a very good job baring wahab

 

[shamaan]

Lol, our over rated bowlers can't even make a fight out of it, not to much to ask for to get 5-6 wickets atleast. Even 200 runs will not be enough for this bowling attack. They have already conceded 190 against England and came extremely close to defeat in the second match.

they took the game to the last 2 overs they new Zealand should have won the game with 2 overs to spear atleast

 

[shamaan]

Our 20/20 spinners now are so bad with Shadab and Imad. Imad is a darter who hardly turns the ball and Shadab, I cant remember when he last won us a 20/20 match with his bowling? Not likes the days when we had Ajmal, Shahid Afridi and Hafeez taking wickets in 20/20's. Ok two of them has dodgy actions but still.

I would actually give Usman Qadir a few more games as he can turn the ball like a spinner should.

3 for 34 against england

 

[shamaan]

The fielding has been terrible infact it was shocking.
Had pakistan got to 180-190 they might have won 1 of the games.credit to the bowlers for taking it to the last over.wahab has been terrible another 1 who should be shown the door