PDM has proven to be politically savvy and clever than PTI for the last 12 plus months?

[Sher Khan]

PDM are not being clever at all. They are losing their own political capital whereas Imran's vote bank is increasing.

It seems like PDM's priority from day one was targetting PTI.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

FIA is not an army agency

In Pakistan, every organisation is an army agency. You toe the line otherwise you get what happens to Imran Khan.

 

[Major]

In Pakistan, every organisation is an army agency. You toe the line otherwise you get what happens to Imran Khan.

FIA is not an army agency, its a federal govt agency.

Dont know what fairy tales you assume about Pakistan, but that is not how things work

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Ironic considering Imran was laudering Malik Riazs money

Trumped up charges. If he was that sort of slitherer he would have no problem bowing to the Pakistan authorities, would just be a matter of him taking cash to shut up like everyone else does to survive.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

FIA is not an army agency, its a federal govt agency.

Dont know what fairy tales you assume about Pakistan, but that is not how things work

These fairy tales are usually propagated by fierce critics of Pakistan who say the leaders and army are corrupt to the core. You have always been one of them I believe, it seems odd that you sing a different tune now for some reason.

 

[Major]

These fairy tales are usually propagated by fierce critics of Pakistan who say the leaders and army are corrupt to the core. You have always been one of them I believe, it seems odd that you sing a different tune now for some reason.

I think im gonna repeat myself here again, FIA is a federal force not an army force

 

[Major]

Trumped up charges. If he was that sort of slitherer he would have no problem bowing to the Pakistan authorities, would just be a matter of him taking cash to shut up like everyone else does to survive.

So you are saying your countrys investigation was wrong?

There is enough detail out there, even investigative journalism by dawn. The guy is corrupt, he laundered money for his masters. Should be jailed for life

 

[psyoptica]

I think im gonna repeat myself here again, FIA is a federal force not an army force

Yep, just like Pakistan is a democracy, institutions are independent and bhutto is alive. FIA is a federal agency.

 

[Major]

Yep, just like Pakistan is a democracy, institutions are independent and bhutto is alive. FIA is a federal agency.

and IK wont be able to contest the election and will always be the only PM to lose the peoples confidence and than be declared a terrorist

 

[Kianig89]

All politician savvy will be evaporated once even if PDM forms new govt the challenges Pakistan economy have is untenable

 

[The_Odd_One]

and IK wont be able to contest the election and will always be the only PM to lose the peoples confidence and than be declared a terrorist

This is a key point. People who invaded the capital in the US are all going to prison and they didn't even burn down the capital. PTI workers caused massive damages to buildings and monuments. They should be rightly labeled as terrorists and sent to prison to rot.

 

[MenInG]

PDM has shown that its a bunch of thugs who will do what it takes to hold on to power.

It is my misfortune to know some of them in power - and thankfully I have cut off all ties with that lot. They deserve nothing but contempt.

 

[IMMY69]

This is a key point. People who invaded the capital in the US are all going to prison and they didn't even burn down the capital. PTI workers caused massive damages to buildings and monuments. They should be rightly labeled as terrorists and sent to prison to rot.

You do know that you're responding to someone who was egging on and supporting the protesters and hoping they would do even more for the sake of democracy and the constituion????

 

[Stewie]

I find such comparisons laughable, honestly.

There is no such thing as PDM in a grander scheme of things. It is basically a military political eleven (of fourteen)a loose alliance of military patsies put together by the real rulers of the country. Without the military they are insignificant, and amount to nothing.


if the followers of this cricket season think they are watching a bilateral series between PTI and PDM, they are seriously misinformed. There are only two teams on the field at the moment. PTI and military. ANd the military is winning because they control all the umpires and match referees, and are allowed 14 players to come play for them.

But the spectators are starting to smell the rot here. THey have no interest in watching the below par parchi players like maryam, billo, showbaz and friends.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

So you are saying your countrys investigation was wrong?

There is enough detail out there, even investigative journalism by dawn. The guy is corrupt, he laundered money for his masters. Should be jailed for life

It depends what you mean by wrong. Britain will weight it's reports in it's own interests, just like US will. How we view Pakistan depends on what advantage we can gain from the situation. Certainly for us would be far easier to grease the palms of someone like Shebaz Sharif who is already invested heavily in Britain.

Imran Khan is notoriously stubborn and a stickler for principle, would be far more difficult to slip him backhanders to look the other way.

 

[SportsWarrior]

inshallah.

Project Imran was the bigggest failiure of the army and they wont repeat the same mistake again

if I were in charge I wouldn't push to dismantle PTI fully. I would retain it in some form and get rid of IK. Imran has served his purpose for army. But fully getting rid of PTI would result in full dependence on the PDM.

So retain PTI, ensure next election, whenever that happens, throws up a hung assembly and then play the king maker. Ensure your king is someone who doesn't have much popular support and has to lean on army to get anything done.

 

[MenInG]

if I were in charge I wouldn't push to dismantle PTI fully. I would retain it in some form and get rid of IK. Imran has served his purpose for army. But fully getting rid of PTI would result in full dependence on the PDM.

So retain PTI, ensure next election, whenever that happens, throws up a hung assembly and then play the king maker. Ensure your king is someone who doesn't have much popular support and has to lean on army to get anything done.

As an Indian, you seem very interested in Pakistani politics and seem to have some sort of hate for Imran as well.

Best to come clean and tell us what the reason for that is?

 

[SportsWarrior]

This is a key point. People who invaded the capital in the US are all going to prison and they didn't even burn down the capital. PTI workers caused massive damages to buildings and monuments. They should be rightly labeled as terrorists and sent to prison to rot.

there is a good chance that it will happen as they are trying to try IK under military court. He will probably be declared as terrorist along with those who participated in rioting and arson. They have also started to call him as RAW and Mossad agent

 

[Stewie]

Indian posters are busy writing fan fiction for IK and PTI future here again, I see. HAHA!

Entertaining stuff, better than their movies.

 

[Savak]

Looking at the Pak media channels and reporters. Its quite remarkable to see the complete and total collapse of PTI. Everyone now just talks about PML N, PPP, PTI Jahangir Tareen Group, PTI Aleem Khan Group, PML Q with Chaudry Sarwar helping to adjust the defecting PTI members and how these parties will combine to form a coalition government in the centre.

Imran Khan is not even considered much of a factor at all now.

I don't think i have ever seen such a dramatic wipe out of a potent political party in a matter of 20 days.

You have to laud the evil genius of PML N, PPP, Pak Military's establishment over the May 9 plan, i don't think anyone could have conceived or even thought they would be capable of planning an event which would ultimately finish PTI

 

[wasim-fan]

Looking at the Pak media channels and reporters. Its quite remarkable to see the complete and total collapse of PTI. Everyone now just talks about PML N, PPP, PTI Jahangir Tareen Group, PTI Aleem Khan Group, PML Q with Chaudry Sarwar helping to adjust the defecting PTI members and how these parties will combine to form a coalition government in the centre.

Imran Khan is not even considered much of a factor at all now.

I don't think i have ever seen such a dramatic wipe out of a potent political party in a matter of 20 days.

You have to laud the evil genius of PML N, PPP, Pak Military's establishment over the May 9 plan, i don't think anyone could have conceived or even thought they would be capable of planning an event which would ultimately finish PTI

It's a clinical military operations. Nothing political about this. They made a chart of the organization. Took out the key positions. Paralyzed the leader. Now making him grovel. Ruthless and precise. Awful for democracy though.

 

[Savak]

It's a clinical military operations. Nothing political about this. They made a chart of the organization. Took out the key positions. Paralyzed the leader. Now making him grovel. Ruthless and precise. Awful for democracy though.

On top of that, they have ruthlessly cracked down on all PTI supporters, workers and have created a very enabling environment for PML N supporters i.e. if you spot any PTI supporter, IK supporter, report him to us and we will pick him up.

The plan is to continue to pressurize PTI ticket holders via arrests, intimidation and PTI supporters on voting day. In such an environment, i don't see IK's assumption i.e. the voters are going to bail him out on voting day become a reality.

 

[Savak]

Barrister Ehtesham is one person i listen to frequently. He mentioned that when he met IK at Zaman Park, he was very frank with him i.e. you need to step out of your idealism and principled filled fantasies in your head, this is Pakistan and by now the ground realities are very clear i.e. the establishment does not want you in power, you know need to actually behave and think like a politician and show some crisis management skills i.e. How are you going to survive this crisis and live to fight another day? If you have decided for good that this is my legacy and i am prepared to face the ultimate consequence then that is a different story but you also need to realize that you represent the hopes, aspiration of your supporters who are now looking up to you as to how you get yourself out of this mess, you are no good dead to your people. You cannot go into a war or conflict with just a Plan A and that's it, all successful generals and strategists always have a Plan B, C, D as well.

I personally think IK's mistakes before and after the May 9th event and the fact his party is now totally toothless have now made it very difficult for PTI to be effective in the October elections. The party is also totally dependent on him and he hasn't groomed a proper successor. If he wants the party to remain a potent political force after he goes then he has to groom someone or a group of people who have loyally served the party through the beginning, through tough times and have them take over the mantle in the future.

 

[Vegitto1]

Lol. I have been hearing this word exposed my whole life as far as the status quo parties are concerned. The entire world knew about their realities. There was nothing to expose that was not known before about them.

The reality is that IK and the PTI has failed this contest against them in the end.

You can’t really say they have failed. We all know that army is the one manipulating and managing everything.

If it were a level playing field then they would not stand a chance. Not much anyone can do when you are being kidnapped in the middle of the night. Judges are begging the police to present the arrested in court and the orders are being ignored without any consequences.

Where there is no rule of law, then law of the jungle prevails. Like MIG said. It’s just thuggery - nothing political about it.

 

[Savak]

Its funny listening to the Pika Huwa Pakistani Media. PTI and IK used to be criticized for accomodating electables in their party from 2011 onwards. Now the reporters are now spelling doomsday scenario's, you need electables in Punjab, You need candidates with experience on how to running polling days, how will PTI win now without experienced candidates?

 

[UP]

Looking at the Pak media channels and reporters. Its quite remarkable to see the complete and total collapse of PTI. Everyone now just talks about PML N, PPP, PTI Jahangir Tareen Group, PTI Aleem Khan Group, PML Q with Chaudry Sarwar helping to adjust the defecting PTI members and how these parties will combine to form a coalition government in the centre.

Imran Khan is not even considered much of a factor at all now.

I don't think i have ever seen such a dramatic wipe out of a potent political party in a matter of 20 days.

You have to laud the evil genius of PML N, PPP, Pak Military's establishment over the May 9 plan, i don't think anyone could have conceived or even thought they would be capable of planning an event which would ultimately finish PTI

Its unbelievable in this day and age of powerful social media to see thuggery so openly.

For Khan the plan is simple - he has to wait and wait and wait. Country is nosediving at a rapid pace and he can use that to his advantage. The Dakoo movement has no money to save their behinds. IMF wants stability and calm. If a bhagora and darpok can burn bridges with Army and still become PM 3 times then anything is possible. No doubt this is a very tough time for PTI but I expect things to improve as time will go on. Hafiz won’t be here forever to save the Dakoo movement. Khan has its weaknesses and faults but he is the best out of the current lot to lead the country.

Murad Saeed is the next leader or PTI after Khan’s departure.

 

[Savak]

IK desperately needs to hold a big jalsa to revive confidence in his supporters that all is not lost and to spread panic in the opposition and establishment.

 

[psyoptica]

IK desperately needs to hold a big jalsa to revive confidence in his supporters that all is not lost and to spread panic in the opposition and establishment.

Where is he going to hold the jalsa? In his bedroom?

 

[saeedhk]

IK desperately needs to hold a big jalsa to revive confidence in his supporters that all is not lost and to spread panic in the opposition and establishment.

He is effectively under house arrest in Zaman Park. There is a Punjab Police checkpoint manned by 30 personnel outside his house. Also, if Khan announces a gathering, there would be crackdown in that city by the govt - all Khan supporters and leaders would be picked up.

 

[saeedhk]

From the surveys that I have been watching, it is very clear that Khan's vote bank has largely remained intact. If free and fair elections are held, PTI would win big time.

 

[psyoptica]

From the surveys that I have been watching, it is very clear that Khan's vote bank has largely remained intact. If free and fair elections are held, PTI would win big time.

I've lived most of my adult life in Pakistan. There's no such thing as "fair" in Pakistani society. There are very genuine well wishers of Pakistan. The majority will side with the corrupt and the "badmaash" given the opportunity to have influence. Pakistan as a society is rotten to the core and the powerful elite know how to control the sheep. I truly feel bad for the underprivileged extremely poor people of the society who are forced to live like slaves.
It doesn't matter if there are 250 million people supporting Imran Khan because at the end of the day, the forces of evil are too powerful for one person to conquer.

 

[Savak]

He is effectively under house arrest in Zaman Park. There is a Punjab Police checkpoint manned by 30 personnel outside his house. Also, if Khan announces a gathering, there would be crackdown in that city by the govt - all Khan supporters and leaders would be picked up.

These voters then need to come out in very large numbers on voting day. We will need to have the highest voter turnout, participation in history i.e. 150-200 million people will need to come out

 

[offstump]

PDM has proven to be politically savy and clever than PTI for the last 12 plus months?

These voters then need to come out in very large numbers on voting day. We will need to have the highest voter turnout, participation in history i.e. 150-200 million people will need to come out

This would mean children have to vote which isn’t possible. At best they could get 120-130 million legal age voters if 100% came out to vote which never happens anywhere.

 

[UP]

There is absolute no plan to tackle the debt crisis or economy by the Dakoo movement. Their only aim is to crush the PTI. Mind you, a party can never be crushed if it has a huge vote bank. Khan is a monster with 80-90% approval rate. Yes, at this time he is under the rubble but expect him to bounce back. It may take time, he will be back. These days are the hardest of his life. His leadership and workers are being harassed and tortured to no end and put in jail. His life is under extreme threat.

Judging by history - Khan will win in the end. This gives me hope and belief. This is a moment of self reflection for IK and learning from mistakes. He is an emotional being so managing emotions should be a priority. Its a waiting game and IMF stated today to tackle your constitution and rule of law crisis or get lost. Eventually pressure from outside will creep in because the Dakoo movement needs money to survive. They need to pay $25 billion within months or face huge problems.

 

[Major]

if I were in charge I wouldn't push to dismantle PTI fully. I would retain it in some form and get rid of IK. Imran has served his purpose for army. But fully getting rid of PTI would result in full dependence on the PDM.

So retain PTI, ensure next election, whenever that happens, throws up a hung assembly and then play the king maker. Ensure your king is someone who doesn't have much popular support and has to lean on army to get anything done.

who cares Imran is done and dusted. He is not begging Amreeka.

He is the armys problem now and they can do whatever they want with him. Would be a lesson for everyone that when you act as the army's tool this is what will happen

 

[Major]

It depends what you mean by wrong. Britain will weight it's reports in it's own interests, just like US will. How we view Pakistan depends on what advantage we can gain from the situation. Certainly for us would be far easier to grease the palms of someone like Shebaz Sharif who is already invested heavily in Britain.

Imran Khan is notoriously stubborn and a stickler for principle, would be far more difficult to slip him backhanders to look the other way.

What interest when Britian gave the money back to the Pakistani govt?

Imran Khan laundered money, end of story.

 

[psyoptica]

If you wanna see what is in the best interest of Pakistan, look in the opposite direction of the Indians,PDM, PPP supporters.
Indians BJP supporters seem to be appreciating what is currently happening in Pakistan and the army which was considered to be the root cause of all animosity between the 2 countries is not that bad anymore and the main nemisis seems to be Imran Khan.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Looking at the Pak media channels and reporters. Its quite remarkable to see the complete and total collapse of PTI. Everyone now just talks about PML N, PPP, PTI Jahangir Tareen Group, PTI Aleem Khan Group, PML Q with Chaudry Sarwar helping to adjust the defecting PTI members and how these parties will combine to form a coalition government in the centre.

Imran Khan is not even considered much of a factor at all now.

I don't think i have ever seen such a dramatic wipe out of a potent political party in a matter of 20 days.

You have to laud the evil genius of PML N, PPP, Pak Military's establishment over the May 9 plan, i don't think anyone could have conceived or even thought they would be capable of planning an event which would ultimately finish PTI

You don't have to laud it, but feel free if that is what floats your boat. I don't believe you live in Pakistan any more than I do, but looking from the outside, none of those "politically savvy" leaders you are lauding have brought anything but misery and servitude to foreign interests through Pakistan's last few decades of existence.

If that is something you want to laud, that's fine, but easy to do if you aren't living in that mess and are actually enjoying life abroad.

 

[Stewie]

who cares Imran is done and dusted. He is not begging Amreeka.

He is the armys problem now and they can do whatever they want with him. Would be a lesson for everyone that when you act as the army's tool this is what will happen

everyone thats someone in pakistani politics has been the army's tool at one point or another. its foolish to insinuate otherwise.


That being said, the overhwelming concensus is that IK is the only relevent force left in pakistan. the rest are all on life support provided by the military mafia, combined together naked so their body heat can sustain them all. LOL ( im sorry i could not come up with a better analogy)

So either you are too loyal to PPP and Billo to openly admit it or you are very naive. Either way for someone who claims to know more about ground realities in pakistan since you live there, you seem to have zero pusle of the nation at this point.

 

[JaDed]

If you wanna see what is in the best interest of Pakistan, look in the opposite direction of the Indians,PDM, PPP supporters.
Indians BJP supporters seem to be appreciating what is currently happening in Pakistan and the army which was considered to be the root cause of all animosity between the 2 countries is not that bad anymore and the main nemisis seems to be Imran Khan.

On the contrary Indians still hold of the negative view of Pakistani Army if anything IK has much more positive views now than he did when he was in office.

 

[Stewie]

On the contrary Indians still hold of the negative view of Pakistani Army if anything IK has much more positive views now than he did when he was in office.

thats great if indeed, true.

i firmly believe the only way forward is on good terms with india and i do believe IK is the person to do it. because all others tow the army's line and bad relations with india is their goal to maintain their unopposed power over the country.

 

[JaDed]

thats great if indeed, true.

i firmly believe the only way forward is on good terms with india and i do believe IK is the person to do it. because all others tow the army's line and bad relations with india is their goal to maintain their unopposed power over the country.

My sample size are the old Indian uncles(including my dad) who read biased news and even they think IK is being wronged by Pakistani Army/Establishment.

 

[Varun]

thats great if indeed, true.

i firmly believe the only way forward is on good terms with india and i do believe IK is the person to do it. because all others tow the army's line and bad relations with india is their goal to maintain their unopposed power over the country.

1. It takes two to tango. You could have Mandela in Pakistan but if you have Modi here, it ain't going to work.

2. Imran's four year track record on the peace front wasn't impressive was it? He toed the army line as much as the next person in Pakistan.

 

[Stewie]

My sample size are the old Indian uncles(including my dad) who read biased news and even they think IK is being wronged by Pakistani Army/Establishment.

well even a blind man can see that. commenting on or having an opinion on such matters is one thing for an average joe but what about the ones that matter? is the indian govt/foreign policy going to lean towards IK? will they truly believe he can help initiate peace between the two countries?

acually let me be perfectly honest here. all democratic leaders in the past have actually tried to be cordial with india. i think its no secret the sharifs have always tried to strike a harmonious chord with india, and thats me saying it.. someone who despises them. Even BB gave the list of khalistani leader to india when she was in power to get in their good books and basically crush the whole khalistan movement. but they always get sabotaged by the military mafia of pakistan when it sees they are not doing their bidding.

so, i would say, ideally the indian think tank should realize that and try to develop cordial relations with the iK government if he comes back into power. i know he rubbed modi the wrong way but this should be beyond personal grudges.

 

[Stewie]

1. It takes two to tango. You could have Mandela in Pakistan but if you have Modi here, it ain't going to work.

2. Imran's four year track record on the peace front wasn't impressive was it? He toed the army line as much as the next person in Pakistan.

He did and its funny how sometimes harsh experiences totally transform our views and appraoches. i am sure he will be totally different if he comes into power a second time. I think what has happened over hte last year or so will have totally opened his eyes.

 

[Major]

everyone thats someone in pakistani politics has been the army's tool at one point or another. its foolish to insinuate otherwise.


That being said, the overhwelming concensus is that IK is the only relevent force left in pakistan. the rest are all on life support provided by the military mafia, combined together naked so their body heat can sustain them all. LOL ( im sorry i could not come up with a better analogy)

So either you are too loyal to PPP and Billo to openly admit it or you are very naive. Either way for someone who claims to know more about ground realities in pakistan since you live there, you seem to have zero pusle of the nation at this point.

PPP was never the armys tool. Bhutto left Ayub's cabinet to make the PPP which was against Ayubs govt.

IK is not the only force left, IK is not a force, infact he is a populist and a populist is never a good thing for any country

 

[Stewie]

PPP was never the armys tool. Bhutto left Ayub's cabinet to make the PPP which was against Ayubs govt.

IK is not the only force left, IK is not a force, infact he is a populist and a populist is never a good thing for any country

It depends on the reasons behind populism. Whether you like to admit it or not he is a force. I don’t like it but Trump is a force in the USA as well. I am not drawing similarities between the two but they are both populists and that’s where the similarities end.

And PPP has been the army’s tool. You don’t accept it but it has been all along. Just BB tended to reject their hold but she paid for it with her life thanks to Zardari.

PPP right now is Defacto Zardari party. You can slap a label that says grandmas ice tea on a jar of **** but that won’t make it drinkable. (Stole it from Batman vs Superman)

So you can cry yourself hoarse Bhutto zinda hai but the Bhutto are all gone now. And what’s leftover is also the tool of the army. If not what are they doing in the PDM?

 

[Angrez Pakistani]

It’s not politically savvy to ally with one of the most historically unpopular military regime. The same regime that will dump them in the end for a new pet project.
And in all of that, the narrative of civilian supremacy is going to die.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

well even a blind man can see that. commenting on or having an opinion on such matters is one thing for an average joe but what about the ones that matter? is the indian govt/foreign policy going to lean towards IK? will they truly believe he can help initiate peace between the two countries?

acually let me be perfectly honest here. all democratic leaders in the past have actually tried to be cordial with india. i think its no secret the sharifs have always tried to strike a harmonious chord with india, and thats me saying it.. someone who despises them. Even BB gave the list of khalistani leader to india when she was in power to get in their good books and basically crush the whole khalistan movement. but they always get sabotaged by the military mafia of pakistan when it sees they are not doing their bidding.

so, i would say, ideally the indian think tank should realize that and try to develop cordial relations with the iK government if he comes back into power. i know he rubbed modi the wrong way but this should be beyond personal grudges.

This Indian govt has no interest in peace ties with Pakistan regardless of who is leader of the country. The BJP is the political arm of the RSS, to them even the idea of Pakistan is anathema. If they are to tolerate Pakistan it would be as a subservient state, it's very ideology is dead set against seeing a prosperous Pakistan.

Remember, Imran Khan wrote a long time ago about what a great experience it was to start playing cricket again with India, he has always been one who believed in a cordial relationship. In fact I would even say the same about Zardar or Sharif clans, they might want good relations just so they can get their palms greased.

The real issue has always been Hindutva on the Indian side, and the military establishment on the Pakistan side.

 

[psyoptica]

It depends on the reasons behind populism. Whether you like to admit it or not he is a force. I don’t like it but Trump is a force in the USA as well. I am not drawing similarities between the two but they are both populists and that’s where the similarities end.

And PPP has been the army’s tool. You don’t accept it but it has been all along. Just BB tended to reject their hold but she paid for it with her life thanks to Zardari.

PPP right now is Defacto Zardari party. You can slap a label that says grandmas ice tea on a jar of **** but that won’t make it drinkable. (Stole it from Batman vs Superman)

So you can cry yourself hoarse Bhutto zinda hai but the Bhutto are all gone now. And what’s leftover is also the tool of the army. If not what are they doing in the PDM?

PPP maybe the most corrupt political party in the history but they somehow manage brainwash the so called pseudo liberals to have a cult like following.
Their only focal point in politics is bashing Imran Khan and PTI while conveniently forgetting about their own past and doing any self reflection. The poster you're quoting seems to be a fan of someone like Nadeem Paracha who can't breath without saying Imran Khan and this is how he writes:

1. Start from West. Anything from west.
2. Smart search on 'Google Scholar' with typical words like populism, fascism, etc. Find relevant research articles and books. Quote them.
3. Mention the authors - even if they are 5 - and quote them exactly from where to be quoted for relevancy and irrelevancy.
4. Homecoming. Suddenly shift from that article to home.
5. Bang Imran Khan. That’s where it was meant to reach.
6. Mention establishment randomly around one or two sentences.
7. Again. Criticize Imran Khan. Along with Trump, Modi, Bolsonaro, Jhonson, anyone.
8. Ignore PPP completely. Ignore the incumbent government until necessary.
9. Imran Khan. Again.
10. Conclusion: How wrong is Imran Khan. Isn’t it?
(taken from a post on Facebook)

 

[JaDed]

This Indian govt has no interest in peace ties with Pakistan regardless of who is leader of the country. The BJP is the political arm of the RSS, to them even the idea of Pakistan is anathema. If they are to tolerate Pakistan it would be as a subservient state, it's very ideology is dead set against seeing a prosperous Pakistan.

Remember, Imran Khan wrote a long time ago about what a great experience it was to start playing cricket again with India, he has always been one who believed in a cordial relationship. In fact I would even say the same about Zardar or Sharif clans, they might want good relations just so they can get their palms greased.

The real issue has always been Hindutva on the Indian side, and the military establishment on the Pakistan side.

Vajpayee was the RSS man too and what did he say when he came to Lahore? You guys are still in denial you clearly see what your Establishment is capable of and yet again and again blaming all diplomatic issues on India.

 

[the Great Khan]

It's a waiting game now..the vote bank is intact..like bhuttos vote was..

The key is the economy..if it recovers it doesn't matter.. if it continues like this then..

 

[Major]

It depends on the reasons behind populism. Whether you like to admit it or not he is a force. I don’t like it but Trump is a force in the USA as well. I am not drawing similarities between the two but they are both populists and that’s where the similarities end.

And PPP has been the army’s tool. You don’t accept it but it has been all along. Just BB tended to reject their hold but she paid for it with her life thanks to Zardari.

PPP right now is Defacto Zardari party. You can slap a label that says grandmas ice tea on a jar of **** but that won’t make it drinkable. (Stole it from Batman vs Superman)

So you can cry yourself hoarse Bhutto zinda hai but the Bhutto are all gone now. And what’s leftover is also the tool of the army. If not what are they doing in the PDM?

I agree with your post fully. What you have said is accurate, PPP is part of the establishment now. Now you can say they are the tool of the army, that could be true. The establishment relies on Zardari more because Zardari controls senate.

In Imrans case, Imran was tooly reliant on army, meanwhile Zardari has been made part of the secret group that runs the country. Even to run the country the army relies on Zardari.

 

[Major]

It's a waiting game now..the vote bank is intact..like bhuttos vote was..

The key is the economy..if it recovers it doesn't matter.. if it continues like this then..

True.

What do you think will happen? Will Imran contest the election? Will a loophole be found where he fights as an independant?

Will the courts intervene and fight against the Army?

I am actually waiting for Faez Isa, if he becomes CJ, who knows, he might pick a fight with the COAS

 

[Savak]

True.

What do you think will happen? Will Imran contest the election? Will a loophole be found where he fights as an independant?

Will the courts intervene and fight against the Army?

I am actually waiting for Faez Isa, if he becomes CJ, who knows, he might pick a fight with the COAS

Faez Issa is not picking any fight with the generals. He works for them

 

[UP]

[MENTION=2501]Savak[/MENTION] - if the Dakoo movement was political savy and clever - why don’t they fight a fair election?

They are 13 parties with Establishment on their side, all govt institutions and bureaucracy siding them. And they still can’t beat a single guy?

It should be a walk in the park for Dakoo movement.

 

[JaDed]

If PDM are truly clever they will not fight against IK in any kind of election for an year.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

1) Successful Execution of the VONC in April 2022 and they made sure IK could do nothing to thwart it despite PTI and its leadership having all the state resources at its disposal and advance notice of the opposition's plans

This was a success? Had they simply let IK finish his term he would have lost a due to the bad economy, however now its PDM who are terrified of holding elections. A free election will be a landslide for PTI.

3) The PDM kept giving messages and feelers to IK that if he dissolved the Punjab and KPK assemblies, they would announce urgent elections. They ensured IK and PTI would fall into the trap thereby they would be able to install their own people in the caretaker setups and control the police in these provinces.

While this was a mistake on IK part i dont think this was their master plan. They told him right after the VONC to dissolve Punjab and KPK assembly as he was demanding early elections. They did not think he would have the chance to have a landslide in Punjab. And neither did IK and thats why he waited until this year to announce dissolving the assembly. Only good that came out of it was they were exposed for refusing to follow constitution and court orders.

5) The PDM managed to get the Army Chief of their liking who perhaps shared an even deeper hatred of IK and PTI then they did. IK via Arif Ali without thinking twice gave his consent to the appointment

IK could not do anything to stop Hafiz sb from becoming COAS. Anyway Nawaz has appointed six Army chiefs, not one of them was loyal to PML N. The army chief ultimately is his own man.

IK has never been a politically smart or savy shattir chalak individual or deep strategic thinker. He is always someone who speaks from the heart and does whatever he feels is right but he is not someone who can play a proper chess match and come out victorious with strategy, planning or deep strategic thinking which is why he relied very heavily on his core PTI team.

He has the most popular party in Pakistan today so hes doing something right.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

Not really. Everyone knew about the corruption of these parties and institutions. IK was pro establishment so long as they were backing him. He just couldn't digest them dumping him when he stepped out of line.

And no PTI is a fan club not an ideology. It has no future after Imran Khan. Its solely built on a cult of personality around him. It is the party of the oppressed class of gated communities as Nusrat Javed nicely put.

The state came down hard on them and they couldn't last 2 days in jail. Having concert filled jalsas and attracting burger crowds (who then ogle at female attendees) does not prepare a mass following that is willing to bear excessive hardship when the hammer comes down.

Interior Sindh has been voting for a dead man for decades. If they kill IK he will win the election from his grave.

The state came down hard on them and they couldn't last 2 days in jail. Having concert filled jalsas and attracting burger crowds (who then ogle at female attendees) does not prepare a mass following that is willing to bear excessive hardship when the hammer comes down.

Over 10k PTI workers are in jail. Leaders like Ali Muhammed Khan, Yasmeen Rashid are also in jail. The lotas left, same way they always do.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

If PDM are truly clever they will not fight against IK in any kind of election for an year.

There are rumors they want to have a caretaker govt for one year. They know they cant win right now.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

As an Indian watching this whole saga - Imran Khan does appears to be very impulsive. Someone who acts without giving much thought to the long term consequences. He lacks the political smarts necessary to survive in a complicated country like Pakistan

One thing about Modi which both his fans and haters agree - he is an astute politician who plays politics like a seasoned chess players. Even someone like me who hates Modi acknowledge that he is very savvy who is always ahead of the game. Every now and then he pulls out a new trick and puts the opposition on the defensive. Goof thing is now opposition has realized the gameplan and are playing accordingly

But Imran comes across as someone says what's he wants and does not understand the long term game. Just wears his heart on his sleeve. And bcoz of that his whole gameplan has fallen apart

Cant compare IK to Modi, as Modi is not fighting with a military junta. A better comparison would be Erdogan and Morsi. And time will tell which one IK is closer too.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

if I were in charge I wouldn't push to dismantle PTI fully. I would retain it in some form and get rid of IK. Imran has served his purpose for army. But fully getting rid of PTI would result in full dependence on the PDM.

So retain PTI, ensure next election, whenever that happens, throws up a hung assembly and then play the king maker. Ensure your king is someone who doesn't have much popular support and has to lean on army to get anything done.

The PTI vote bank belongs to Imran Khan, and him alone. So if hes disqualified, only who he backs will get the votes of PTI supporters. and if hes killed then whoever is head of PTI will have to ask for votes in his name.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

If he wants the party to remain a potent political force after he goes then he has to groom someone or a group of people who have loyally served the party through the beginning, through tough times and have them take over the mantle in the future.

He said Murad Saeed is a leader of the future. I would add Hammad Azhar, and Ali Muhammed Khan to that as well. And for the meantime Querishi is in charge if hes disqualified.

 

[UP]

There are rumors they want to have a caretaker govt for one year. They know they cant win right now.

What do you think will change in a year?

Economy is gonna crash and burn to the ground. The Dakoo movement has to pay $25 billion within months. The thugs are begging for a mere billion from IMF and the IMF told them to get lost. Country is nosediving at a rapid pace. Khan will win fair elections in a year or two years or 5 years. Its a matter of time only. Hafiz saab has no himmat to call elections and defeat a single guy. He only knows gunda gardi and badmaashi. Come and play in a fair field Hafiz saab.

PTI has become a monster and defeating this party is not easy. 80-90% approval rate is no joke.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

If you wanna see what is in the best interest of Pakistan, look in the opposite direction of the Indians,PDM, PPP supporters.
Indians BJP supporters seem to be appreciating what is currently happening in Pakistan and the army which was considered to be the root cause of all animosity between the 2 countries is not that bad anymore and the main nemisis seems to be Imran Khan.

They know for DHA Delhi, DHA Mumbai, DHA Kolkata, the establishment will brown nose to the Hindu nationalist.

 

[SportsWarrior]

If you wanna see what is in the best interest of Pakistan, look in the opposite direction of the Indians,PDM, PPP supporters.
Indians BJP supporters seem to be appreciating what is currently happening in Pakistan and the army which was considered to be the root cause of all animosity between the 2 countries is not that bad anymore and the main nemisis seems to be Imran Khan.

You are not looking at right places. there are indians who are enjoying what they are seeing and they are biggest supporter of Imran khan. They feel he is the one bringing pakistan to its knees and many low key believe he is an Indian asset. I am not seeing i agree with them but you clearly have not seen the Indian forums where they are enjoying the current state.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

What do you think will change in a year?

Economy is gonna crash and burn to the ground. The Dakoo movement has to pay $25 billion within months. The thugs are begging for a mere billion from IMF and the IMF told them to get lost. Country is nosediving at a rapid pace. Khan will win fair elections in a year or two years or 5 years. Its a matter of time only. Hafiz saab has no himmat to call elections and defeat a single guy. He only knows gunda gardi and badmaashi. Come and play in a fair field Hafiz saab.

PTI has become a monster and defeating this party is not easy. 80-90% approval rate is no joke.

I dont think much will change and whenever the election is held PTI will win. Just what I have heard from different sources.

And no doubt Hafiz sb is worried what will happen if PTI wins the election. If PTI wins he needs to be fired day 1, so to avoid that I am certain he will try to jail, exile, or kill IK.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Vajpayee was the RSS man too and what did he say when he came to Lahore? You guys are still in denial you clearly see what your Establishment is capable of and yet again and again blaming all diplomatic issues on India.

Did you not read the last line of my post?

The real issue has always been Hindutva on the Indian side, and the military establishment on the Pakistan side.

It's pretty categorical there that I have laid blame on both sides, even then not all of India, just the Hindutva element which is actually relevant now, and far more militant than in the days of Vajpayee.

 

[JaDed]

Did you not read the last line of my post?

The real issue has always been Hindutva on the Indian side, and the military establishment on the Pakistan side.

It's pretty categorical there that I have laid blame on both sides, even then not all of India, just the Hindutva element which is actually relevant now, and far more militant than in the days of Vajpayee.

Yes that’s fair enough but I’ll say only someone with huge mandate on Indian side and Establishment on Pakistan side can actually make peaceful trade relations possible .

For now I see unfortunately no other leader except Modi can get that mandate right (even without South India not voting for him).

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Yes that’s fair enough but I’ll say only someone with huge mandate on Indian side and Establishment on Pakistan side can actually make peaceful trade relations possible .

For now I see unfortunately no other leader except Modi can get that mandate right (even without South India not voting for him).

That is a different matter. My issue is I don't believe Modi believes in having good relations with Pakistan, I think it goes against the very fabric of his identity. I also don't believe Pakistan army want good relations because that would reduce their importance. Neither side are really interested for different reasons, and that is why the relations are possibly at an all time low in a peace time era.

 

[Kianig89]

So PDM to get another leg, a fake PTI or PTI likewise group or PTI Haqeeqi on the cards

 

[KingKhanWC]

Politically savy?

This is outright criminal barbarity which any human with an ounce of decency would never inflict on others.

Pakistan is in a state of martial law under the disguise of democracy.

Pakistan currently is one of the worst regimes on the planet.

There should be a total boycott of everything, strikes, road blocks etc But the people are in so much fear now and are also struggling with finances, so it seems they are willing to accept and hope things improve by magic.

Only Imran and a few are left out of 220 million. People need to look in the mirror.

 

[Savak]

Politically savy?

This is outright criminal barbarity which any human with an ounce of decency would never inflict on others.

Pakistan is in a state of martial law under the disguise of democracy.

Pakistan currently is one of the worst regimes on the planet.

There should be a total boycott of everything, strikes, road blocks etc But the people are in so much fear now and are also struggling with finances, so it seems they are willing to accept and hope things improve by magic.

Only Imran and a few are left out of 220 million. People need to look in the mirror.

The only possible and logical explanation is the PDM and Army have received their blessings from the US, UK, Arab states, China for this blatant thuggery against PTI. Asim Munir had visited the Arab states, China before May 9th therefore whatever that is happening now makes complete sense. The regime has complete confidence that they can do whatever they want so blatantly and no one is going to do anything about it.

 

[UP]

The only possible and logical explanation is the PDM and Army have received their blessings from the US, UK, Arab states, China for this blatant thuggery against PTI. Asim Munir had visited the Arab states, China before May 9th therefore whatever that is happening now makes complete sense. The regime has complete confidence that they can do whatever they want so blatantly and no one is going to do anything about it.

What does China gains from instability and chaos? They have invested billions. Doesn’t make sense.

 

[KingKhanWC]

The only possible and logical explanation is the PDM and Army have received their blessings from the US, UK, Arab states, China for this blatant thuggery against PTI. Asim Munir had visited the Arab states, China before May 9th therefore whatever that is happening now makes complete sense. The regime has complete confidence that they can do whatever they want so blatantly and no one is going to do anything about it.

This was obvious from day 1. I dont think China and Saudi want this, as they are trying to forge a new alliance against the US/West/Europe.

The US owns the general and of course UK is nothing but a vassal state of the Yanks, which is why they are keeping mute.

It was Bajwa who sold out his nation to the Yanks, he's been there on many occasions. Munir is a puppet of Bajwa, he was selected by him not PDM to be brutal while Bajwa sits on the sidelines smirking.

If Pakistan was a nation which USA wanted peace, it would be on the MSM on a daily basis but they want to ruin Pakistan because its the only Muslim nuclear nation.

People are being fooled , this isnt just some power hungry evil people taking control, this is a road to default, bankruptcy, selling all Pakistani secrets and eventually limiting its nuclear and military power.

If the people dont stand up as the Iranians did in their revolution, Pakistan is done as a nation in the next few years.

 

[JaDed]

What does China gains from instability and chaos? They have invested billions. Doesn’t make sense.

They gained from Lanka, Cambodia , African issues as well, more chaos less the transparency in deal making where they can just buy their way through.

They utilize these countries to bring in influence and their one sided trade, not to forget the resources.

Tbh this is similar to what West nations have done in Africa and oil/gas countries as well.

IK did try to bring in transparency ..

 

[Savak]

This was obvious from day 1. I dont think China and Saudi want this, as they are trying to forge a new alliance against the US/West/Europe.

The US owns the general and of course UK is nothing but a vassal state of the Yanks, which is why they are keeping mute.

It was Bajwa who sold out his nation to the Yanks, he's been there on many occasions. Munir is a puppet of Bajwa, he was selected by him not PDM to be brutal while Bajwa sits on the sidelines smirking.

If Pakistan was a nation which USA wanted peace, it would be on the MSM on a daily basis but they want to ruin Pakistan because its the only Muslim nuclear nation.

People are being fooled , this isnt just some power hungry evil people taking control, this is a road to default, bankruptcy, selling all Pakistani secrets and eventually limiting its nuclear and military power.

If the people dont stand up as the Iranians did in their revolution, Pakistan is done as a nation in the next few years.

The next game plan apparently is to bring in an economic emergency and for Qazi Faez Essa to sign off on the governments plans to delay elections for atleast 2 years.

 

[wasim-fan]

Of all the things that concerns US today , apparently Pakistan is very high on that list. What can one say to such delusions of grandeur

 

[KingKhanWC]

The next game plan apparently is to bring in an economic emergency and for Qazi Faez Essa to sign off on the governments plans to delay elections for atleast 2 years.

For sure, a serious collapse of the economy is on its way. Ishaq Dar is working hard to achieve this for this masters.

Of all the things that concerns US today , apparently Pakistan is very high on that list. What can one say to such delusions of grandeur

Why does it need to be high on a list? USA is an empire, it can work on harming multiple nations at once, as its done many times in history. After India has gone in Russia's court, USA feels its a must to rule over Pakistan to keep some balance in the region.

You've been watching too much Disneyland.

 

[DRsohail]

if you are gonna wish bad for pakistan after hoping the first boat you saw, atleast wait for your residency to complete.

I am ot coming back to Paksitan even if Khan comes back into power becsue I know its a sinking ship. I am planning to stay here InshaALllah. I am not wishing bad for Paksitan or any pther cpuntry but my wish does not matter. The reality is obvious to all of us.