[PICTURES/VIDEOS] Extremism, Violence and Brutality on the Rise in India

[Red-Indian]

Yeah it's a pity they had to resort to this dog whistle when there's legal ways to handle the pilgrim's concerns. The best way would be for some organisation to go around certifying restaurants (for a fee) who offer themselves up voluntarily for checking - "Saatvik certified by the Indian Pilgrims Association." There's a business opportunity there for someone - Zomato or Swiggy would be the obvious candidates.

In the UK I don't believe there are any laws directly to religious food production requirements, but we do have Halal food certification which gives customers confidence to buy meat. There might be rogue halal meat purveyors but then the onus is on the customer if they want to purchase non-certified produce.

Maybe something similar should be introduced in India rather than the somewhat cack-handed approach of demanding employee names be displayed.

Agreed. I posted an idea above on this but I'm sure there are better ones. Restaurant names were sort of unofficial self-certifications but looks like that isn't working so much any more.

I'm sure this certification will also be scammed just like I'm sure plenty of these halal/Zabiha certifications are being scammed but at least we'll be back to don't ask don't tell.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Of course, I won't walk into a Karim's for obvious reasons.

But you seriously can't be comparing a Karim's with humble street vendors who sell fruits, juice, vegetarian food etc.

Their religion has never mattered to Hindus before this Tughlaqi diktat. Has anyone ever thought if his humble puchkas/gol gappas/panipuri were prepared by a Muslim or a Hindu?

This is how a society is divided on the basis of religion.

Next will be Sharmas will refuse to say from a chaat corner run by a dalit. Where will it end? Or is this discrimination only towards Muslims?

Exactly what i am saying. You won't walk into a Karim's. Most vegetarian hindus or Jains won't. Even many Sikhs won't. We all know the reason.

But all of us will buy raw vegetables or fruits from a Muslim and wash it and eat or even offer for pooja.


I don't think any hindu has issues buying raw food from Muslims, problem is with cooked food.

Religion always mattered thats why you will not go to a Karim's and that's why Muslims were using hindu names for their eateries. Why are we denying this? This has nothing to do with Modi or Yogi or BJP. These are Hindu beliefs.

I am sure you have occasionally or even permanently kept a Maharaj for cooking. What's his religion? You may even know his caste..

 

[DeadlyVenom]

It still doesn't apparently.

Seculars have infected every institution in India.

It won't be long until Modi roots then out.

Hindus deserve to be able to eat with a clear conscience.

 

[Local.Dada]

I think this was done based on past behavior. Why would any businessmen spit on food and affect his own customers unless radicalized or hates his customers for whatever reason. However this has happened before. Most times these small time businessmen like thelawaala etc are the most secular and welcoming folk regardless of religion.However unfortunately every 12 fail with a criminal record claims to be maulana in India and stars spreading such ruckus unregulated and starts all this believer-kafir bs.

I thought it took a life time to be a religious expert . anyways too much leeway is given to these kind of troublemakers who only make Islamophobia worse.

This decision was a reaction to it. Surprisingly some sensible Muslim vendors have no issues with this too as they realize the problem.

However I do agree having business owner names etc is not a long term solution and not the right approach.

 

[Stewie]

Of course I'm sure this was violated plenty - meat and beef eating Hindus and even Muslims might have been working in these restaurants. I suppose it was always a question of "Don't ask...don't tell". One the media report has come out though, there's no going back.

Just as a further illustration, in India, there is no legal backing to halal certification. There's a couple of independant bodies that that hand these out. Muslims have always trusted them by social convention. As long as nothing goes wrong that's fine. If tomorrow there's a news report that a major Halal certified meat seller was owned by a Hindu and wasn't bothering with halal rules, I expect Muslims would be horrified. There might be a call that every halal meat seller has to publish the names of their butchers. If meat manufacturers and sellers were willing to do that on their own, I'm okay. If the government tries to step in and legalise halal certification, I'm not.

So how does it help if you have lists of employees working a particular establishment.

Muslims can be vegetarians and Hindus can consume beef. If the requirement of being satwick is simply related to the consuption of beef and one can make an argument not motivated by religion, then this move can be interpreted as religious discrimination... wouldn't it?

 

[Stewie]

I think this was done based on past behavior. Why would any businessmen spit on food and affect his own customers unless radicalized or hates his customers for whatever reason. However this has happened before. Most times these small time businessmen like thelawaala etc are the most secular and welcoming folk regardless of religion.However unfortunately every 12 fail with a criminal record claims to be maulana in India and stars spreading such ruckus unregulated and starts all this believer-kafir bs.

I thought it took a life time to be a religious expert . anyways too much leeway is given to these kind of troublemakers who only make Islamophobia worse.

This decision was a reaction to it. Surprisingly some sensible Muslim vendors have no issues with this too as they realize the problem.

However I do agree having business owner names etc is not a long term solution and not the right approach.

I guess if you want satwick food, the best solution would be to have some sort of local bodies established who can provide the eateries that status and certify them. Give them guidelines to follow and have them audited yearly. This way you can avoid the stigma of religious discrimination.

 

[Local.Dada]

I guess if you want satwick food, the best solution would be to have some sort of local bodies established who can provide the eateries that status and certify them. Give them guidelines to follow and have them audited yearly. This way you can avoid the stigma of religious discrimination.

I think this discussion is a level below satvik/ halaal/kosher or whatever. This is more to do with “stop spitting in customer’s food” that a few idiots are indulging in.

 

[Stewie]

I think this discussion is a level below satvik/ halaal/kosher or whatever. This is more to do with “stop spitting in customer’s food” that a few idiots are indulging in.

lol.

Yeah that’s just plain outright sanitation violation. Don’t think you need to know the religion of the person at all. If that happens, jail the violators.

 

[KingKhanWC]

In the UK I don't believe there are any laws directly to religious food production requirements, but we do have Halal food certification which gives customers confidence to buy meat. There might be rogue halal meat purveyors but then the onus is on the customer if they want to purchase non-certified produce.

Maybe something similar should be introduced in India rather than the somewhat cack-handed approach of demanding employee names be displayed.

I don’t think the authenticity of the food is the issue here , a carrot or aubergine are just a plant . Some want to eat from only Hindu outlets with Hindu workers, or some are content with at least the workers must not be Muslims .

They would openly say this but India wants to continue seen as secular , democracy , enlightened as the west. Many western nations also send millions in aid , this may pause if most of the population won’t buy carrot salad from someone who has a specific faith .

 

[Local.Dada]

lol.

Yeah that’s just plain outright sanitation violation. Don’t think you need to know the religion of the person at all. If that happens, jail the violators.

Difference here is motive for violation is religion in this case . Having said that I think on the same page there that this isn’t the long term solution.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

I have followed the majority of the thread but am a bit lost now

whats the recent stuff about spitting in food all about?

 

[Stewie]

Difference here is motive for violation is religion in this case . Having said that I think on the same page there that this isn’t the long term solution.

Motive for violation is religion?

I guess you are trying to say that the religious divide is resulting in hatred and causing Muslims to spit in the food they know will be served to Hindus?

If that's the case, the whole complexion of this debate changes. Then what you are saying is its that its not that these Hindu pilgrims mind someone who eats beef serves them, they just don't want spit in their food. I know it sounds utterly idiotic but it leaves the initial argument for why Hindus want this in the dust in my view.

 

[Local.Dada]

Motive for violation is religion?

I guess you are trying to say that the religious divide is resulting in hatred and causing Muslims to spit in the food they know will be served to Hindus?

If that's the case, the whole complexion of this debate changes. Then what you are saying is its that its not that these Hindu pilgrims mind someone who eats beef serves them, they just don't want spit in their food. I know it sounds utterly idiotic but it leaves the initial argument for why Hindus want this in the dust in my view.

Yes it is religion, unless you selectively nitpick on a topic without full context you wouldn’t ask this question.

There was purpose spitting and other unhygienic activities by some Muslims, again keyword “some” Muslims as a religious mandate from some local maulana to cause such disturbances, has been happening for a while. Thats exactly why this was suggested.

Also I don’t think someone eating beef in his house or wherever is not the same as spitting in customers food. Sorry what are you not understanding here; let’s go back to the start.

 

[Stewie]

Yes it is religion, unless you selectively nitpick on a topic without full context you wouldn’t ask this question.

There was purpose spitting and other unhygienic activities by some Muslims, again keyword “some” Muslims as a religious mandate from some local maulana to cause such disturbances, has been happening for a while. Thats exactly why this was suggested.

Also I don’t think someone eating beef in his house or wherever is not the same as spitting in customers food. Sorry what are you not understanding here; let’s go back to the start.

I don't think I have any interest left in this topic. You guys are all over the place. You can go back and view pages of discussion and you will see the defense launched by some Hindus was based around the concept of satvik. That's all I would say. Nobody at the time mentioned this has its roots in some Muslims spitting in Hindu food.

 

[rickroll]

I don’t think the authenticity of the food is the issue here , a carrot or aubergine are just a plant . Some want to eat from only Hindu outlets with Hindu workers, or some are content with at least the workers must not be Muslims .

They would openly say this but India wants to continue seen as secular , democracy , enlightened as the west. Many western nations also send millions in aid , this may pause if most of the population won’t buy carrot salad from someone who has a specific faith .

These days I always chuckle when someone calls India a secular democracy. You are right, they want to be seen that way but their reality is far from that as we all know.

 

[Red-Indian]

I don't think I have any interest left in this topic. You guys are all over the place. You can go back and view pages of discussion and you will see the defense launched by some Hindus was based around the concept of satvik. That's all I would say. Nobody at the time mentioned this has its roots in some Muslims spitting in Hindu food.

What's happened overnight to the sensible discussion that was going in this thread? There was a reasonable consensus emerging that we've got to find a way to accommodate religious food based idiosyncrasies whether based on some rules written in a book or arrived at through centuries of tradition. The accommodation (especially in a non-religious country) can't be enforced by the government but has to be driven by the community without victimising or placing onerous burdens on food workers.

I'm not sure @Local.Dada has got his fears that Muslims or other caste Hindus are spitting in his food from but I think we can safely discount them. These kind of rumours (on all sides) are usually started by some trolls or hatemongers who claim to have seen it somewhere and are swallowed (no pun intended) hook, line and sinker by the gullible bigots.

 

[MP2011]

 

[CricketCartoons]

View attachment 145384

It means that in order to not be a hypocrite you must agree to disclosing both. So as you are not a hypocrite, you agree with both donors name and eateries owners names must be disclosed? What a self goal!

 

[Stewie]

What's happened overnight to the sensible discussion that was going in this thread? There was a reasonable consensus emerging that we've got to find a way to accommodate religious food based idiosyncrasies whether based on some rules written in a book or arrived at through centuries of tradition. The accommodation (especially in a non-religious country) can't be enforced by the government but has to be driven by the community without victimising or placing onerous burdens on food workers.

I'm not sure @Local.Dada has got his fears that Muslims or other caste Hindus are spitting in his food from but I think we can safely discount them. These kind of rumours (on all sides) are usually started by some trolls or hatemongers who claim to have seen it somewhere and are swallowed (no pun intended) hook, line and sinker by the gullible bigots.

Dare I say the root cause of this proposed law rests more within bad religious community relations than any spiritual Hindu beliefs being violated?


Or maybe a bit of both?

 

[CricketCartoons]

Dare I say the root cause of this proposed law rests more within bad religious community relations than any spiritual Hindu beliefs being violated?


Or maybe a bit of both?

Did you find any country of your choice which dictates how customers are allowed to patronize businesses?

 

[Red-Indian]

Dare I say the root cause of this proposed law rests more within bad religious community relations than any spiritual Hindu beliefs being violated?


Or maybe a bit of both?

I think Option C is the right answer.

The current religious polarisation and the rise of muscular Hinduism led by the RSS/BJP in general and bigots like Adityanath in particular has definitely aggravated what were long standing concerns and beliefs associated with them.

Nobody was going around exposing folks taking advantage of these established social conventions. If any were caught out by chance - say a Brahmins cafe run by a Muslim, there'd be a quiet boycott until the owner was forced to sell. Now under BJP, one such discovery has turned into a issue that has to go the Supreme Court.

 

[CricketCartoons]

I think Option C is the right answer.

The current religious polarisation and the rise of muscular Hinduism led by the RSS/BJP in general and bigots like Adityanath in particular has definitely aggravated what were long standing concerns and beliefs associated with them.

Nobody was going around exposing folks taking advantage of these established social conventions. If any were caught out by chance - say a Brahmins cafe run by a Muslim, there'd be a quiet boycott until the owner was forced to sell. Now under BJP, one such discovery has turned into a issue that has to go the Supreme Court.

LOL. Things were good because earlier there would be quiet boycott, but now under BJP it gets highlighted breaking the sosal phabrick of india.

It is social media, which doesn't let things go quietly. BJP, or rather UP govt, didn't even go to the court to present their case.

Blame social media which is exposing the smelly rotten social fabric which was being covered up in the past. No where to hide now.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Vadodara eatery owners arrested for selling beef-mixed samosas​

Panna Momaya, Deputy Commissioner of Police, Vadodara, said, "We got information that some people were selling samosas from a house using cow meat. We conducted raids and seized 61 kg of prepared samosas, 113 kg of beef, and 152 kg of samosa material. We sent the material to the forensic lab which confirmed it was cow meat."

Momaya said the people running the shop did not have any license from the municipal corporation or the food safety department. "They were selling these samosas across the city without mentioning to their customers," the DCP said.

Vadodara eatery owners arrested for selling beef-mixed samosas

The police arrested Yusuf Sheikh and Naeem Sheikh, owners of the eatery, for selling samosas mixed with cow meat.

www.indiatoday.in

Incidents like this are not uncommon. This is why Hindus usually avoid muslim owned eateries.

 

[cricketjoshila]

These days I always chuckle when someone calls India a secular democracy. You are right, they want to be seen that way but their reality is far from that as we all know.

Secular Democracy means Hindus have no religious rights?

You guys have no idea what secularism and what's democracy is because hardly any muslim country is a secular Democracy.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Exactly what i am saying. You won't walk into a Karim's. Most vegetarian hindus or Jains won't. Even many Sikhs won't. We all know the reason.

But all of us will buy raw vegetables or fruits from a Muslim and wash it and eat or even offer for pooja.


I don't think any hindu has issues buying raw food from Muslims, problem is with cooked food.

Religion always mattered thats why you will not go to a Karim's and that's why Muslims were using hindu names for their eateries. Why are we denying this? This has nothing to do with Modi or Yogi or BJP. These are Hindu beliefs.

I am sure you have occasionally or even permanently kept a Maharaj for cooking. What's his religion? You may even know his caste..

@MP2011

 

[MP2011]

@MP2011

Will reply. Bit tied up, mate.

 

[BouncerGuy]

India court blocks order for eateries to display owners' names

India's Supreme Court has put on hold a controversial order that directed restaurants along the route of an annual Hindu pilgrimage to display names of their owners and operators.

The order was issued by Uttar Pradesh and Uttarakhand - states governed by the Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP), which is in power federally - ahead of the Kanwar Yatra, which began on Monday.

Opposition parties and even BJP allies criticised it, saying it targeted Muslim-owned establishments and could affect livelihoods.

State authorities claimed the order was meant to maintain law and order.

But on Monday, India's Supreme Court temporarily halted the order while hearing a batch of petitions challenging it. The judges said the eatery-owners only needed to display names of items they served.

The petitions, filed by civil society activists and opposition MP Mahua Moitra, argued that the orders were "discriminatory on grounds of religion and would further the cause of untouchability [outlawed in India]".

What is the controversy?

The row began last week when authorities in Uttar Pradesh's Muzaffarnagar and Saharanpur districts asked eateries along the pilgrimage route to display their owners' names to prevent “confusion” among devotees - who avoid meat and alcohol during the pilgrimage.

The annual pilgrimage takes place during the Hindu holy month of Sawan. Devotees of the Hindu god Shiva travel on foot, sometimes for days or weeks, to religious sites along the holy Ganges river to collect water and offer it at Shiva temples.

The pilgrims are mostly young men, who pass through states such as Uttar Pradesh, Uttarakhand, Madhya Pradesh, Haryana, Delhi and Rajasthan on their way to and from temple towns.

Traffic restrictions are usually in place and police are deployed to maintain order. But incidents of violence and vandalism have been reported in recent years as large numbers of young men pass through busy cities - sometimes walking in the middle of the road - with little crowd control.

After criticism from opposition parties, the Uttar Pradesh government - led by Hindu monk-turned-Chief Minister Yogi Adityanath - widened the ambit of the order to cover the entire state during the pilgrimage.

Mr Adityanath had earlier this year prohibited the sale and purchase of meat in the open along the pilgrimage routes as a mark of "respect" for devotees.

Uttarakhand state and Madhya Pradesh's Ujjain city also ordered restaurants to display names of owners and employees on their boards.

Uttarakhand Chief Minister Pushkar Singh Dhami cited past instances of criminal incidents "over some hotel and dhaba [eatery] operators hiding their true identities" and said the order was aimed at preventing such cases in future.

And the reactions?

Opposition parties called the order "divisive" and accused the governing BJP of facilitating an economic boycott of Muslims. The issue was raised at an all-party meeting held on Sunday ahead of the budget session of parliament, news reports said.

And even allies of the BJP have criticised the move.

“A Kanwar Yatra bigger than this [in Uttar Pradesh] takes place in Bihar. No such order is in effect there,” KC Tyagi, spokesperson of BJP's ally Janata Dal (United) said, urging the governing party to review the order.

Chirag Paswan, chief of Lok Janshakti Party, another BJP ally, said: “Whenever there is such divide in the name of caste or religion, I absolutely do not either support it or encourage it."

What is the impact?

BBC Hindi visited Muzaffarnagar, where deadly Hindu-Muslim riots had left at least 60 people dead in 2013. Several local vendors and shop owners said they thought the order was "an attempt to alienate Muslims”.

Many shops, eateries and road-side food stalls along the highway from Delhi to Uttar Pradesh displayed the names of their owners and workers in big, bold red letters. Some said they had been forced into it by the police.

But authorities claimed that eatery owners in the district had voluntarily complied with the order.

Vakeel Ahmad, the owner of Lover’s Tea Point, a popular tea shop in Muzzafarnagar's Khatauli area, said he renamed it Vakeel Sahab Chai after a police visit.

“But police visited again and argued that the name does not make it clear that I am a Muslim. They forced me to put up another signboard with the name Vakeel Ahmad.”

Mr Ahmad said it was upsetting to change the decade-old identity of his shop.

A food stall owner said he had removed four of his Muslim employees, including the manager of his eatery. “You need to understand our situation. We don’t want any controversy,” he said on condition of anonymity.

The Hindu owner of another eatery in the district said the police had visited his shop to ask if he employed any Muslim workers. "I told them I did not have any working for me at present. They advised me against employing any Muslims,” he alleged.

Abhishek Singh, a senior police officer in Muzaffarnagar, did not respond to the accusation but directed the BBC to a statement issued by the police which said the shopkeepers had been asked to display the names voluntarily.

One restaurant owner said a Muslim employee working in his shop had "left on his own", saying he didn't want others to be in trouble because of him.

Restaurant owners say they have been under pressure since last year, when a local Hindu religious leader began demanding that Muslim-owned eateries named after Hindu gods and goddesses be shut.

Since then, many such eateries have shut down and some have been rented out to Hindus.

But while the controversy continues, some pilgrims who are setting out on the journey said it didn't matter to them who owned or worked in a shop.

“It doesn’t matter if the shop belongs to a Hindu or a Muslim. Everybody here respects a pilgrim. While buying something, we never look for the name of the person selling it," said Vishal Bhola.

BBC

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Vadodara eatery owners arrested for selling beef-mixed samosas​

Panna Momaya, Deputy Commissioner of Police, Vadodara, said, "We got information that some people were selling samosas from a house using cow meat. We conducted raids and seized 61 kg of prepared samosas, 113 kg of beef, and 152 kg of samosa material. We sent the material to the forensic lab which confirmed it was cow meat."

Momaya said the people running the shop did not have any license from the municipal corporation or the food safety department. "They were selling these samosas across the city without mentioning to their customers," the DCP said.

Vadodara eatery owners arrested for selling beef-mixed samosas

The police arrested Yusuf Sheikh and Naeem Sheikh, owners of the eatery, for selling samosas mixed with cow meat.

www.indiatoday.in

Incidents like this are not uncommon. This is why Hindus usually avoid muslim owned eateries.

This is not dissimilar to the famous cases in Pakistan where unscrupulous traders were selling gullible folk horse meat presented as beef. Easily dealt with under existing laws which should cover most food regulations.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Vadodara eatery owners arrested for selling beef-mixed samosas​

Panna Momaya, Deputy Commissioner of Police, Vadodara, said, "We got information that some people were selling samosas from a house using cow meat. We conducted raids and seized 61 kg of prepared samosas, 113 kg of beef, and 152 kg of samosa material. We sent the material to the forensic lab which confirmed it was cow meat."

Momaya said the people running the shop did not have any license from the municipal corporation or the food safety department. "They were selling these samosas across the city without mentioning to their customers," the DCP said.

Vadodara eatery owners arrested for selling beef-mixed samosas

The police arrested Yusuf Sheikh and Naeem Sheikh, owners of the eatery, for selling samosas mixed with cow meat.

www.indiatoday.in

Incidents like this are not uncommon. This is why Hindus usually avoid muslim owned eateries.

Thats a shame if they duped religious Hindus. What did they advertise it as? Did the Hindus eat it thinking they were veggie samosa?

 

[CricketCartoons]

This is not dissimilar to the famous cases in Pakistan where unscrupulous traders were selling gullible folk horse meat presented as beef. Easily dealt with under existing laws which should cover most food regulations.

No. It is very much dissimilar. That was a muslim cheating muslims, which means internal affair. When it is hindu and muslim, then it is community vs community.

 

[RexRex]

Vadodara eatery owners arrested for selling beef-mixed samosas​

Panna Momaya, Deputy Commissioner of Police, Vadodara, said, "We got information that some people were selling samosas from a house using cow meat. We conducted raids and seized 61 kg of prepared samosas, 113 kg of beef, and 152 kg of samosa material. We sent the material to the forensic lab which confirmed it was cow meat."

Momaya said the people running the shop did not have any license from the municipal corporation or the food safety department. "They were selling these samosas across the city without mentioning to their customers," the DCP said.

Vadodara eatery owners arrested for selling beef-mixed samosas

The police arrested Yusuf Sheikh and Naeem Sheikh, owners of the eatery, for selling samosas mixed with cow meat.

www.indiatoday.in

Incidents like this are not uncommon. This is why Hindus usually avoid muslim owned eateries.

Taking action against specific shops for false advertising is different from boycotting an entire community. Shops that engage in mischief should rightly have their licenses suspended and further legal action can be taken.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

No. It is very much dissimilar. That was a muslim cheating muslims, which means internal affair. When it is hindu and muslim, then it is community vs community.

Muslims chose to stay back in India and live with their hindu brothers so I think we can call it internal affair.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Muslims chose to stay back in India and live with their hindu brothers so I think we can call it internal affair.

If that was really the case, then everytime an indian muslim is victim of indian hindu,

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

If that was really the case, then everytime an indian muslim is victim of indian hindu, it wouldn't be discussed on PP.

It would be discussed as international affairs same as we Brits discuss everything else going on in the world.

 

[CricketCartoons]

It would be discussed as international affairs same as we Brits discuss everything else going on in the world.

Wish everyone was like you. The world would be a better place.

But the world is full of people like me, You will rarely see discussions on hindu victims of muslims going beyond one page, if at all there is a discussion.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Wish everyone was like you. The world would be a better place.

But the world is full of people like me, You will rarely see discussions on hindu victims of muslims going beyond one page, if at all there is a discussion.

That is because everyone is too ashamed to identify as Pakistani these days, therefore they feel helpless to take responsibility for hindu victims of Muslims in that country as they either don't identify with the Pakistan state establishment, or if they do, they will be cunning liars who will put the blame on Imran Khan.

The most honest discussion we could have of Hindu victims of Muslims would be based in India,

 

[Local.Dada]

The most honest discussion we could have of Hindu victims of Muslims would be based in India,

Thanks for the concern but half-baked takes on matters which I wouldn’t even call it half- knowledge makes matters worse. Maybe time to participate in genuine electoral issues in Britain and try to make Britain great again: sad to see a once great colonial power that ruled the world being made irrelevant:

The way things are going you will run out of India is poor or has no toilet facility taunts in give or take in 10 yrs. Not that I expect India to make amazing progress but the opposite decline scenario looks pretty likely. In India we have the RSS to take care of such devious plots and I am pretty sure they would do a a more stellar job than some Brit-Pakistani trolls or intellectual masterminds.

 

[Stewie]

Intersesting that nobody is talking about the other two instances that the OP posted at the very top of the thread and everybody has been busy arguing about the least significant of them.

I believe the other two instances are a lot more terrifying than the satvik issue.

 

[Local.Dada]

Intersesting that nobody is talking about the other two instances that the OP posted at the very top of the thread and everybody has been busy arguing about the least significant of them.

I believe the other two instances are a lot more terrifying than the satvik issue.

For someone who has used the word “satvik” multiple times, it’s funny you haven’t done anything to find out what it is.

Satvik food is literally any vegetarian food without a lot of masala/spices. It doesn’t involve any religious rituals.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Thats a shame if they duped religious Hindus. What did they advertise it as? Did the Hindus eat it thinking they were veggie samosa?

Samosa is usually veg.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Samosa is usually veg.

ah ok. we get meat samosas too so I thought they maybe believed they were eating lamb and got beef instead.

I'm surprised they got away with selling beef samosa as veg samosa. Seems like bad business given the price differences and there is a distinct difference between a veg samosa and a beef samosa. Is the story accurate?

 

[Local.Dada]

ah ok. we get meat samosas too so I thought they maybe believed they were eating lamb and got beef instead.

I'm surprised they got away with selling beef samosa as veg samosa. Seems like bad business given the price differences and there is a distinct difference between a veg samosa and a beef samosa. Is the story accurate?

Meat samsosas are sold in India too, I was told alcohol is sold in designated areas in Pak, this would be the equivalent of mixing vodka in coke bottles and selling in Pak.

It’s not just bad business it is clearly religiously motivated.

 

[Red-Indian]

Intersesting that nobody is talking about the other two instances that the OP posted at the very top of the thread and everybody has been busy arguing about the least significant of them.

I believe the other two instances are a lot more terrifying than the satvik issue.

Why's the first one terrifying? Two guys beat up a driver who they suspected of stealing from them and left him so injured, he died a couple of hours later. If you're terrified by such violence, you must lead a very sheltered life in this cruel world.

The second - fair enough...does seem a typical example of religious thuggery (and yes I'll say it in India's case - Hindutva thuggery) you see in the subcontinent. I'd say it's far less less terrifying than the restaurant issue. It's not systemic, it's not backed by the government or cops, no one was seriously injured and no major property damage caused.

There's a reason why the Supreme court took special cognizance of the forced naming of employees issue and issued an immediate Stay Order and not the two others.

 

[cricketjoshila]

ah ok. we get meat samosas too so I thought they maybe believed they were eating lamb and got beef instead.

I'm surprised they got away with selling beef samosa as veg samosa. Seems like bad business given the price differences and there is a distinct difference between a veg samosa and a beef samosa. Is the story accurate?

Yes. Accurate. Multiple outlets reported it.

The guy who was supplying beef was arrested too.

We get Chicken samosa but its limited to Kolkata.

Gujarat is more than 60 per cent veg.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Meat samsosas are sold in India too, I was told alcohol is sold in designated areas in Pak, this would be the equivalent of mixing vodka in coke bottles and selling in Pak.

It’s not just bad business it is clearly religiously motivated.

That's a really mindless analogy. Alcohol is sold under the counter as it were, to willing consumers. What you are suggesting is that food walas in India are trying to pass off meat samosas as veg in an effort to "hoodwink" unsuspecting hindu pilgrims. How realistic does that sound to you?

 

[Red-Indian]

Yes. Accurate. Multiple outlets reported it.

The guy who was supplying beef was arrested too.

We get Chicken samosa but its limited to Kolkata.

Gujarat is more than 60 per cent veg.

Seems unlikely the guy was trying to pass of beef as veg samosas. For one thing, it would be a hugely loss making proposition. Beef is much more expensive than aloo and some veggies.

Probably chicken or mutton samosas though that's a pretty s***y thing to do as well. Just because Hindus are willing to eat non-veg, doesn't mean they're okay with beef.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Meat samsosas are sold in India too, I was told alcohol is sold in designated areas in Pak, this would be the equivalent of mixing vodka in coke bottles and selling in Pak.

It’s not just bad business it is clearly religiously motivated.

I am thinking that they maybe passed off beef to Muslims under the counter or pretended lamb samosa was being sold but instead it was beef. Both of which I assume are crimes in n Gujrat anyway and the latter is wrong morally.

But selling beef pretending it was veg to unsuspecting pilgrims seems a stretch I'm sorry.

 

[Local.Dada]

I am thinking that they maybe passed off beef to Muslims under the counter or pretended lamb samosa was being sold but instead it was beef. Both of which I assume are crimes in n Gujrat anyway and the latter is wrong morally.

But selling beef pretending it was veg to unsuspecting pilgrims seems a stretch I'm sorry.

If someone told me 2 planes will crash into NYC and if I lived in a bubble I would think of that as a stretch too.

We live in a region where someone kills a cow just to diss a neighbor or amputate leg of an innocent camel or slash a horse in a religious procession. So a prank like feeding beef to unsuspecting pilgrims is not that much of a stretch unless someone lives in a bubble.

 

[Red-Indian]

I am thinking that they maybe passed off beef to Muslims under the counter or pretended lamb samosa was being sold but instead it was beef. Both of which I assume are crimes in n Gujrat anyway and the latter is wrong morally.

But selling beef pretending it was veg to unsuspecting pilgrims seems a stretch I'm sorry.

I did bit more googling and read a few more articles. The story is more complicated

The place was called "Hussaini Samosas" and was in a very Muslim locality
They were selling meat samosas
Most locals knew they were actually selling beef filling in the samosas

It's obviously illegal to own and sell beef in Gujarat and jealous gossip got out and someone complained to the cops. The guys were arrested. I'm sure some Hindus who had no intention of eating beef and thought they were eating lamb were impacted but certainly no vegetarians were suddenly eating meat samosas. Let's keep this nonsense in perspective.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

If someone told me 2 planes will crash into NYC and if I lived in a bubble I would think of that as a stretch too.

We live in a region where someone kills a cow just to diss a neighbor or amputate leg of an innocent camel or slash a horse in a religious procession. So a prank like feeding beef to unsuspecting pilgrims is not that much of a stretch unless someone lives in a bubble.

Sure but we need to keep perspective.

Someone can be pranked but I don't think people are dumb enough to fall victim to the same prank over and over again.

To give an example one time I went to a local shop for a cheese pasty and they gave a chicken one. I spat it out and returned it. They were apologetic but the point is I realised that something wasn't quite right.

If you really believe that Hindu pilgrims ate copious amounts of beef while thinking they were eating potatoes then I guess we have different thresholds of gullibility.

 

[Stewie]

Why's the first one terrifying? Two guys beat up a driver who they suspected of stealing from them and left him so injured, he died a couple of hours later. If you're terrified by such violence, you must lead a very sheltered life in this cruel world.

The second - fair enough...does seem a typical example of religious thuggery (and yes I'll say it in India's case - Hindutva thuggery) you see in the subcontinent. I'd say it's far less less terrifying than the restaurant issue. It's not systemic, it's not backed by the government or cops, no one was seriously injured and no major property damage caused.

There's a reason why the Supreme court took special cognizance of the forced naming of employees issue and issued an immediate Stay Order and not the two others.

Four incidences of mod beating someone to death are not concerning? We had a similar trend emerging in Pakistan a while back and I was deeply concerned. I believe any pattern innvolving loss of life and lack of law and order is concerning. Thats just me.

We had a tragic and absolutely indefensible streak where there were incidents of mob acting as judge jury and executioner in Pakistan. They were all over the news and discussed here as well.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

I did bit more googling and read a few more articles. The story is more complicated

The place was called "Hussaini Samosas" and was in a very Muslim locality
They were selling meat samosas
Most locals knew they were actually selling beef filling in the samosas

It's obviously illegal to own and sell beef in Gujarat and jealous gossip got out and someone complained to the cops. The guys were arrested. I'm sure some Hindus who had no intention of eating beef and thought they were eating lamb were impacted but certainly no vegetarians were suddenly eating meat samosas. Let's keep this nonsense in perspective.

This makes sense.

It is a crime and should be punished but unrelated to what's being discussed in the thread.

 

[Red-Indian]

If someone told me 2 planes will crash into NYC and if I lived in a bubble I would think of that as a stretch too.

We live in a region where someone kills a cow just to diss a neighbor or amputate leg of an innocent camel or slash a horse in a religious procession. So a prank like feeding beef to unsuspecting pilgrims is not that much of a stretch unless someone lives in a bubble.

Dude you're mixing 2 stories

One is about a Muslim owned "Vaishno Dhaba" that sells vegetarian food on the Kanwariya pilgrim trail
One is about a Muslim owned meat samosa seller in a very Muslim locality

 

[Red-Indian]

Four incidences of mod beating someone to death are not concerning? We had a similar trend emerging in Pakistan a while back and I was deeply concerned. I believe any pattern innvolving loss of life and lack of law and order is concerning. Thats just me.

We had a tragic and absolutely indefensible streak where there were incidents of mob acting as judge jury and executioner in Pakistan. They were all over the news and discussed here as well.

There's no mob. Where did you get the mob? I didn't read all the incidents but the 2 I read were about 2 guys beating up 1 and 5 guys in a construction crew beating up a guy who they thought was a thief. Yes it's scary that guys take justice into their own hands but it's got to do with the "intolerance" in the subject. I would go beyond the subcontinent...it's an old, old developing country problem where people don't want to trust or wait for law enforcement to get them justice. Not some new pattern.

 

[Stewie]

There's no mob. Where did you get the mob? I didn't read all the incidents but the 2 I read were about 2 guys beating up 1 and 5 guys in a construction crew beating up a guy who they thought was a thief. Yes it's scary that guys take justice into their own hands but it's got to do with the "intolerance" in the subject. I would go beyond the subcontinent...it's an old, old developing country problem where people don't want to trust or wait for law enforcement to get them justice. Not some new pattern.

Now I am pretty sure we are not reading the same thing. Please go read the very first post in this thread.

This is what it was linked to:

Press Trust Of India

www.ptinews.com

 

[RexRex]

In most normal countries, law enforcement is used for protecting citizens from heinous crimes & tackling robbery, murder and corruption. In India, police resources are deployed to check if a mutton samosa is made properly

A sad state of affairs.

 

[Stewie]

@Red-Indian, the second instance is also worth discussing.. a lot more than the idiotic food related episode:

'Where is your sindoor', Hindutva mob attacks Christian prayer meet in Dehradun

A Christian prayer mee was attacked by Hindutva mob in Dehradun. The mob forcefully entered the house alleging mass conversion was on

www.siasat.com

 

[Red-Indian]

Now I am pretty sure we are not reading the same thing. Please go read the very first post in this thread.

This is what it was linked to:

Press Trust Of India

www.ptinews.com

There's no detail in that blurb. Here's a better article from a more reliable source without the sensational headline

Man beaten to death in Hooghly village, 2 held

 

[Red-Indian]

@Red-Indian, the second instance is also worth discussing.. a lot more than the idiotic food related episode:

'Where is your sindoor', Hindutva mob attacks Christian prayer meet in Dehradun

A Christian prayer mee was attacked by Hindutva mob in Dehradun. The mob forcefully entered the house alleging mass conversion was on

www.siasat.com

Yes I did address that in the second part of my post. Perhaps you didn't see it. I do recognise the seriousness of this bullying and I don't want to sound like I'm victim blaming but I have to say some of these foreign funded pastors have been in real conflict with local communities. I don't know the full details of this case since it was not journalist reported but brought out on Twitter by a local so I'll stay away from saying more.

Why's the first one terrifying? Two guys beat up a driver who they suspected of stealing from them and left him so injured, he died a couple of hours later. If you're terrified by such violence, you must lead a very sheltered life in this cruel world.

The second - fair enough...does seem a typical example of religious thuggery (and yes I'll say it in India's case - Hindutva thuggery) you see in the subcontinent. I'd say it's far less less terrifying than the restaurant issue. It's not systemic, it's not backed by the government or cops, no one was seriously injured and no major property damage caused.

There's a reason why the Supreme court took special cognizance of the forced naming of employees issue and issued an immediate Stay Order and not the two others.

 

[Stewie]

Yes I did address that in the second part of my post. Perhaps you didn't see it. I do recognise the seriousness of this bullying and I don't want to sound like I'm victim blaming but I have to say some of these foreign funded pastors have been in real conflict with local communities. I don't know the full details of this case since it was not journalist reported but brought out on Twitter by a local so I'll stay away from saying more.

So dont get me wrong, its great that Christians are allowed to spread their faith in India because in Pakistan they are most likely not given that freedom. So as a secular nation, India is already ahead of Pakistan in that regard. But what you are alluding to sounds like there is pushback from local communities now on the spread of Christianity.

Do you agree with that assessment?

 

[CricketCartoons]

So dont get me wrong, its great that Christians are allowed to spread their faith in India because in Pakistan they are most likely not given that freedom. So as a secular nation, India is already ahead of Pakistan in that regard. But what you are alluding to sounds like there is pushback from local communities now on the spread of Christianity.

Do you agree with that assessment?

India is ahead of Pakistan because of secularism? Are you saying being Islamic is inferior to being Secular?

Can't believe a Pakistani will say that.

 

[Stewie]

India is ahead of Pakistan because of secularism? Are you saying being Islamic is inferior to being Secular?

Can't believe a Pakistani will say that.

Thats because some people are brainwashed simpletons lead to believe Pakistanis don't value personal freedoms. Or maybe because I value the American freedoms and acknowledge that all denominations should have the same rights.

But in either case, it does not prove that Islam is inferior to being secular. This is only aspect of the larger debate. India is ahead of Pakistan because of secularism in that particular aspect for sure. But then again Pakistan is not an Islamic state either. But that's perhaps another debate.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Thats because some people are brainwashed simpletons lead to believe Pakistanis don't value personal freedoms. Or maybe because I value the American freedoms and acknowledge that all denominations should have the same rights.

But in either case, it does not prove that Islam is inferior to being secular. This is only aspect of the larger debate. India is ahead of Pakistan because of secularism in that particular aspect for sure. But then again Pakistan is not an Islamic state either. But that's perhaps another debate.

Ok, so you mean Islam is inferior to Secularism when it comes to religious freedom.

 

[Red-Indian]

So dont get me wrong, its great that Christians are allowed to spread their faith in India because in Pakistan they are most likely not given that freedom. So as a secular nation, India is already ahead of Pakistan in that regard. But what you are alluding to sounds like there is pushback from local communities now on the spread of Christianity.

Do you agree with that assessment?

That's a very complicated question which has been debated plenty on this forum. Yes Muslims, Christians (and other religions) are allowed to proselytize their religion and convert. On the ground though, no other religion other that Christianity (yes not even Islam) are really doing conversions on any serious scale.

I would say this 'freedom' has been exploited by a few bad actors. There are a few megachurches that are selling "spreading god's word" and "converting the poor heathens" to the gullible religious in the American South and Midwest and soliciting donations.

These donations are then used to fund pastors and run mass conversion programs in rural India. Folks are paid an initial amount to convert and then small continuous amounts to keep attending. Some genuinely convert...some only do it superficially for money and it's been causing conflict with local communities. Till recently, these tensions were at a local level but over the last couple of years, it's started getting more political at a state and national level.

Personally, I don't take religion very seriously anyway and money seems to be as good a reason to convert as any other but I can understand the issues among religious folks and leaders.

 

[Stewie]

That's a very complicated question which has been debated plenty on this forum. Yes Muslims, Christians (and other religions) are allowed to proselytize their religion and convert. On the ground though, no other religion other that Christianity (yes not even Islam) are really doing conversions on any serious scale.

I would say this 'freedom' has been exploited by a few bad actors. There are a few megachurches that are selling "spreading god's word" and "converting the poor heathens" to the gullible religious in the American South and Midwest and soliciting donations.

These donations are then used to fund pastors and run mass conversion programs in rural India. Folks are paid an initial amount to convert and then small continuous amounts to keep attending. Some genuinely convert...some only do it superficially for money and it's been causing conflict with local communities. Till recently, these tensions were at a local level but over the last couple of years, it's started getting more political at a state and national level.

Personally, I don't take religion very seriously anyway and money seems to be as good a reason to convert as any other but I can understand the issues among religious folks and leaders

That's a shame. But I would say if you have strong faith and conviction, money wont convince you to ditch your religion.

 

[Red-Indian]

That's a shame. But I would say if you have strong faith and conviction, money wont convince you to ditch your religion.

Who knows? I've seen both ends of this.

I had a maid a few years back who had ostensibly converted but kept all the Hindu religious fasts. She had a drunkard husband and the provisions she was getting from the church were probably saving the lives of her and her children. If the Hindutva brigade dare grudge her this, let them help her sustain herself.

I also lived in South Carolina for a few years. A colleague invited us to dinner once. After dinner, she was really eager to show me photos of the lives she was saving back in India with her donations (she was pulling money out of her 401K). To my amusement, it turns out to be a village not far from my maternal grandparents hometown. I didn't tell her that...she might've wanted me to go visit and bask in the glory.

 

[Local.Dada]

Thats because some people are brainwashed simpletons lead to believe Pakistanis don't value personal freedoms. Or maybe because I value the American freedoms and acknowledge that all denominations should have the same rights.

But in either case, it does not prove that Islam is inferior to being secular. This is only aspect of the larger debate. India is ahead of Pakistan because of secularism in that particular aspect for sure. But then again Pakistan is not an Islamic state either. But that's perhaps another debate.

It has nothing to do with religion. Indians have a better work ethic and education regardless of religion or caste. You see a confidence of a Muslim engineer or doctor from India and compare it to the same demographic in Pakistan.

Pakistan is made of Punjabis-we have those, Gunga-Jumna type bhayyas from UP- we have those too. Maybe Pathan-Baloch or whatever maybe an outlier. Even Kashmiris on the Indian side have found more fame and success than “Azad Kashmir”.

Move out out of 1947 Hindu-Muslim and lot of things will fall in place:

India is no America or a superpower far from it and has a million issues but there is no other comparison to Pakistan. Facts are not chest-thumping.

 

[Stewie]

It has nothing to do with religion. Indians have a better work ethic and education regardless of religion or caste. You see a confidence of a Muslim engineer or doctor from India and compare it to the same demographic in Pakistan.

Pakistan is made of Punjabis-we have those, Gunga-Jumna type bhayyas from UP- we have those too. Maybe Pathan-Baloch or whatever maybe an outlier. Even Kashmiris on the Indian side have found more fame and success than “Azad Kashmir”.

Move out out of 1947 Hindu-Muslim and lot of things will fall in place:

India is no America or a superpower far from it and has a million issues but there is no other comparison to Pakistan. Facts are not chest-thumping.

Like I always say, everybody has one opinion. I came to the US from Pakistan as an undergrad student and amongst my peers were south Asian students from India as well. There were other Pakistani students in my university as well. We all fared equally well and sometimes better than our Indian friends. Professionally speaking, I have lead teams of Indian engineers who were my peers. My wife who is academically more accomplished than I am can easily claim superiority over her Indian peers.

But once again, these words mean nothing on an internet forum. We all come with preconcieved notions and you have yours about Pakistan and Pakistanis.

 

[Stewie]

Like I always say, everybody has one opinion. I came to the US from Pakistan as an undergrad student and amongst my peers were south Asian students from India as well. There were other Pakistani students in my university as well. We all fared equally well and sometimes better than our Indian friends. Professionally speaking, I have lead teams of Indian engineers who were my peers. My wife who is academically more accomplished than I am can easily claim superiority over her Indian peers.

But once again, these words mean nothing on an internet forum. We all come with preconcieved notions and you have yours about Pakistan and Pakistanis.

By the way, since we are on the topic about preconcieved notions, let me share mine with you.

I have mentioned this in the past as well. Who is the biggest culprit in call center scams trying to cheat our the elderly in the west our of their hard earned money? Not only the elderly but young and middle aged ones as well. I get calls and emails from Raju, Pappu sounding types all the time. Even the white Americans have grown accustomed to it and from the accent can tell its a scammer and its coming from India. This is actually pretty well documented in the media.

So based on this, it can be easily inferred that Indians are more criminal-minded than Pakistanis. If you follow the crime in Brampton, Indians are also more likely to engage in gang warfare and violent crime than Pakistanis.

Like I said, based on our experienced, we all have our own impressions.

 

[Local.Dada]

By the way, since we are on the topic about preconcieved notions, let me share mine with you.

I have mentioned this in the past as well. Who is the biggest culprit in call center scams trying to cheat our the elderly in the west our of their hard earned money? Not only the elderly but young and middle aged ones as well. I get calls and emails from Raju, Pappu sounding types all the time. Even the white Americans have grown accustomed to it and from the accent can tell its a scammer and its coming from India. This is actually pretty well documented in the media.

So based on this, it can be easily inferred that Indians are more criminal-minded than Pakistanis. If you follow the crime in Brampton, Indians are also more likely to engage in gang warfare and violent crime than Pakistanis.

Like I said, based on our experienced, we all have our own impressions.

ok there are Indian criminals. Trivia of the day. The point is Indians are on top of the ladder of the corporate world. Indians in India who are extremely successful influencers. Indian home grown startups and businesses have boosted its economy. All these are homegrown entrepreneurs. India has a fledging entertainment and now evolving sports market. Besides rhetoric you have nothing mate. At this point you are only trying to win a futile online battle. You got better GPA than couple of your Indian mates: good for you. Congratulations on that achievement .

 

[Stewie]

ok there are Indian criminals. Trivia of the day. The point is Indians are on top of the ladder of the corporate world. Indians in India who are extremely successful influencers. Indian home grown startups and businesses have boosted its economy. All these are homegrown entrepreneurs. India has a fledging entertainment and now evolving sports market. Besides rhetoric you have nothing mate. At this point you are only trying to win a futile online battle. You got better GPA than couple of your Indian mates: good for you. Congratulations on that achievement .

And somehow the fact that a little less than 0.0000001% of total Indian diaspora anywhere is leading some corporations in the world is proof enough of their superiority over Pakistanis is your point? Sure, nice logic applied. I think my point still remains. You have probably never ventured out of India so it seems normal to have such views. LOL

 

[Local.Dada]

And somehow the fact that a little less than 0.0000001% of total Indian diaspora anywhere is leading some corporations in the world is proof enough of their superiority over Pakistanis is your point? Sure, nice logic applied. I think my point still remains. You have probably never ventured out of India so it seems normal to have such views. LOL

Where did you pull those numbers from. LOL. Anyway the larger point is using the same mathematics it might be whatever micro % of Indian disaproa, the larger point is Indians and India as a nation have 1000x more success than Pakistan. Deal with it. Become a ceo, hire me and I will sing your praises, till then keep the rhetoric in the same hole you are pulling the% from. Forget white collar Indian workers even Indian blue collar workers are more in demand for their work ethic in Middle East.

A auto driver son like Siraj or a panipuri wala son like Jaiswal will retire 10 times more famous and successful than pretty much every Pak cricketer there was.guess what not just their wealth or fame but when they speak or talk they talk with more confidence than a MBA or Mass comm guy from Karachi university for sure.
Make your GPA to good use, taking it out me will only increase BP and health insurance in UsA is a pain.

 

[Stewie]

Where did you pull those numbers from. LOL. Anyway the larger point is using the same mathematics it might be whatever micro % of Indian disaproa, the larger point is Indians and India as a nation have 1000x more success than Pakistan. Deal with it. Become a ceo, hire me and I will sing your praises, till then keep the rhetoric in the same hole you are pulling the% from. Forget white collar Indian workers even Indian blue collar workers are more in demand for their work ethic in Middle East.

A auto driver son like Siraj or a panipuri wala son like Jaiswal will retire 10 times more famous and successful than pretty much every Pak cricketer there was.guess what not just their wealth or fame but when they speak or talk they talk with more confidence than a MBA or Mass comm guy from Karachi university for sure.
Make your GPA to good use, taking it out me will only increase BP and health insurance in UsA is a pain.

And where is your evidence apart from the subjective biased rant?

What data do you have to back your claim apart from the superiority in numbers… that too outside of the respective countries, which proves nothing because India is the most populous nation in the world and due to the political instability in Pakistan, Indian do get more opportunities to study and work abroad than Pakistanis. But apart from those factors, what tangible evidence do you have to back your claim about work ethic and overall professional success you made? There is nada, zilch… because the argument you make itself is subjective and blanket.

There is a reason why wisdom states you can’t stereotype or generalize. I wanted to avoid it but if you use the same logic one can say the criminal element in India is more extreme and much higher because all the scammers trying to scam elderly western people through phone and cyberspace are based out of India. But would that mean by default Indians are more criminally inclined than Pakistanis?

Most likely not… but the trend is there. Just good for thought

 

[Local.Dada]

And where is your evidence apart from the subjective biased rant?

What data do you have to back your claim apart from the superiority in numbers… that too outside of the respective countries, which proves nothing because India is the most populous nation in the world and due to the political instability in Pakistan, Indian do get more opportunities to study and work abroad than Pakistanis. But apart from those factors, what tangible evidence do you have to back your claim about work ethic and overall professional success you made? There is nada, zilch… because the argument you make itself is subjective and blanket.

There is a reason why wisdom states you can’t stereotype or generalize. I wanted to avoid it but if you use the same logic one can say the criminal element in India is more extreme and much higher because all the scammers trying to scam elderly western people through phone and cyberspace are based out of India. But would that mean by default Indians are more criminally inclined than Pakistanis?

Most likely not… but the trend is there. Just good for thought

Indians can scam on cyberspace should not be your takeaway for online point scoring, Indian home grown space program has made incredible progress in the last few years should be your aspiration. All those scientists product of Indian education system.

As far as population numbers go, sure India is 1 or 2 in that but Pakistan is not far behind at number 5, on the flip side India is also the 5th largest economy and poised to only grow in the next few years by all significant benchmarks. Since you claim to be a valedictorian you are either apreach aware of the fact or I would assume capable of finding out yourself. Hint IMF, etc is your friend too. It’s not some Hindutva website, it’s the same organization your country is head over heels to get some chump change as loan. By the same account Pakistan is 43 below Bangladesh.

As far as political instability goes, it’s your own (not you personally) doing and incompetence.

India with all its flaws is a somewhat functioning democracy also known as the worlds largest.

What exactly are you trying to argue about?

 

[Local.Dada]

What data do you have to back your claim apart from the superiority in numbers… that too outside of the respective countries, which proves nothing because India is the most populous nation in the world and due to the political instability in Pakistan, Indian do get more opportunities to study and work abroad than Pakistanis. But apart from those factors, what tangible evidence do you have to back your claim about work ethic and overall professional success you made? There is nada, zilch… because the argument you make itself is subjective and blanket.

Indian space program-product of Indian education system, India being in G8 etc product of Indian nationalism, work ethic, sundar pichai- IIT alumni, Google ceo for the valedictorians out here. Satya Nadella etc all product of Indian education system up until their post graduate or PhD’s. What numbers are we talking here, hit me with it and we can take it further. You are the same guy who was over using the word satvik like some expert with 0 due diligence. Now I might have to see the GPA lol.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

And where is your evidence apart from the subjective biased rant?

What data do you have to back your claim apart from the superiority in numbers… that too outside of the respective countries, which proves nothing because India is the most populous nation in the world and due to the political instability in Pakistan, Indian do get more opportunities to study and work abroad than Pakistanis. But apart from those factors, what tangible evidence do you have to back your claim about work ethic and overall professional success you made? There is nada, zilch… because the argument you make itself is subjective and blanket.

There is a reason why wisdom states you can’t stereotype or generalize. I wanted to avoid it but if you use the same logic one can say the criminal element in India is more extreme and much higher because all the scammers trying to scam elderly western people through phone and cyberspace are based out of India. But would that mean by default Indians are more criminally inclined than Pakistanis?

Most likely not… but the trend is there. Just good for thought

You will find in every second or third post he tries to defame Pakistan or Muslims.

It's normal behaviour.

 

[Local.Dada]

Also nothing personal but Ambani and Adani are rich so Indian economy is good. Rest all are poor is one of the dumbest arguments I hear. Obviously it is not coming from some economist but these kind of juvenile arguments is what makes me take a dig at times. If Ambani is becoming rich by selling JIO sims or whatever product, it’s Indians who are buying this, not Arabs which means there is purchasing power among middle class. Obviously there are poor people in India, so are they in Pakistan, what’s the point of dragging these unfortunate folks. Having said that all I can say, is get along and get to work, things will look up.

 

[KingKhanWC]

ok there are Indian criminals. Trivia of the day. The point is Indians are on top of the ladder of the corporate world. Indians in India who are extremely successful influencers. Indian home grown startups and businesses have boosted its economy. All these are homegrown entrepreneurs. India has a fledging entertainment and now evolving sports market. Besides rhetoric you have nothing mate. At this point you are only trying to win a futile online battle. You got better GPA than couple of your Indian mates: good for you. Congratulations on that achievement .

Are in a simulation?

India has the highest of many because they are 2 billion of you. You have 3-4x more population of Pak just in poverty alone! There are more children forced into prostitution in India than any other nation .

When you have so many people you should eat any vegetables from anyone esp if there is no problem with your faith

 

[Local.Dada]

Are in a simulation?

India has the highest of many because they are 2 billion of you. You have 3-4x more population of Pak just in poverty alone! There are more children forced into prostitution in India than any other nation .

When you have so many people you should eat any vegetables from anyone esp if there is no problem with your faith

what role are you playing right now a Brit or a Pakistani? Clarify so we can move ahead. Also who is your current transport minster (of Britain) ? Tell me without googling . We will worry about Indias progress or lack of it. Worry why no one gives a damn about Uk anymore lol. Obviously if you care that is but you seem to be focused on elections in Manipur or something which you can’t point on a map.

 

[Stewie]

what role are you playing right now a Brit or a Pakistani? Clarify so we can move ahead. Also who is your current transport minster (of Britain) ? Tell me without googling . We will worry about Indias progress or lack of it. Worry why no one gives a damn about Uk anymore lol. Obviously if you care that is but you seem to be focused on elections in Manipur or something which you can’t point on a map.

Maybe you can also explain in what capacity are you claiming Indian superiority when most of the examples you used are of people who are neither Indian citizens or passport holdersanymore, nor got their higher education in India, and they don't even lead Indian organizations. LOL
Most cannot officially even call themselves Indians anymore, but you are quick to jump and take credit for them.